Ramirez leaves with a dislocated left shoulder

by kanderber on May 8, 2009 8:49 PM CDT Comment 83 comments

Nasty looking play. I'm guessing best case scenario is that he's out for around two months, with worst case being he never fully recovers.

Obviously Jim needs to do something. To me, Aramis is our best, and most important, player. Ryan Freel is a nice little bench player but Jim needs to do something. What sort of realistic options are there?

It sure would be nice if we still had DeRosa. That trade is looking worse and worse as the season progresses.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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by Fraggin Judge on May 8, 2009 8:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 8, 2009 9:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Did not see it

But is 2 months really best possible scenario?

Any word on TV or radio?

by ak123 on May 8, 2009 9:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it is plausible for 2 months

depending on how he reacts to the therapy and treatment. Being an athlete with access to better doctors than we could dream of, he could be back 45-60

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 8, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was nasty ugly

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 8, 2009 9:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It was very bad

We’ll just have to wait and see what the doctors actually find out. But it looks like it could definitely be a season ending type of injury.

by BLou on May 8, 2009 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Have yet to see it.......and I am bit in shock right now

….if they are saying two months right now, you can bet its at least August before he is back and you would have to assume he will be 75 percent then at best.

You dont recover from seperated shoulders during a baseball season

New sig currently under construction

by JB 23 on May 8, 2009 9:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nobody has said two months that I have heard

We will just have to wait and see. But on TV it looked very bad. As in lost for the season kind of bad.

by BLou on May 8, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

dislocated shoulder

Have to wait and see but I think the ‘good’ estimate would be 2-4 weeks. Its too early to tell though.

by jeff_pico on May 8, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seperated shoulder

Would assume structural damage where the acromioclavicular joint is structurally impacted.

A separated shoulder and dislocated shoulder are two different things. Only a MRI can tell really. But, it was back in place in locker room and not a hospital. This is a positive sign.

Again, we will learn more tomorrow after a MRI is done.

by jajonez77 on May 8, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not without PED's

He’ll need the offseason to be 100 percent again depending on what the full evaluation finds. Tonight was preliminary. After he sees the team’s specialist and gets the full battery of tests done maybe we’ll have a different outcome. I won’t hold my breath, though.

by Nibbles on May 8, 2009 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

one of the uglier injuries i've seen a Cub take ..

seeing him thrash about made my stomach hurt .. watching two men guide him off the field and watching his head as low as it did wasn’t encouraging ..

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on May 8, 2009 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I couldn't even watch.

I had to leave the room before they showed the replay. Made me sick too to see him in that much pain. My heart goes out to him.

by katie casey on May 9, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm surprised...

to hear that it could be months or longer.

My impression with dislocations was that they hurt extremely badly at the time, but are not particularly long-lasting injuries once you get them popped back in?

I have zero medical knowledge, obviously. That was just my impression from various things I had seen/heard. Does anyone here have a medical background that could explain what it is that about the injury that takes time to heal? Is it just the stretching of the ligament?

(If ligaments were torn, the long recovery would make sense. I’m just talking about dislocations themselves…)

by CubsWin!Oregon on May 8, 2009 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Careers end for less

Popping it back in sounds nice, but it severely weakens the area.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 8, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes it is as easy as popping it back in and a best case scenario could be as little as two weeks.

but you’re right – it does weaken the area, and thus make you more susceptible for re-injury down the road. And unfortunately, ARam has had previous injuries to that shoulder (1998 and 2000 according to Tribune article) so it was probably touchy to begin with.

Again, the real proof will be in the MRI results. I wouldn’t put much stock in how awful the play looked or how much pain he was in. Dislocations are extremely painful, but it is usually short-lived pain.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 8, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa? Really?

If we had DeRosa, wouldn’t he have been playing the outfield? So you’d move him over to third and then Reed “I can’t hit righties” Johnson becomes an every day player? I don’t think the Cubs would be in any better shape.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 8, 2009 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No, he'd be playing 2B, like he did last year.

So you’d move him over to third and then Fontenot “I can’t hit lefties” becomes your starting 2B.

And yes, the Cubs would be in dramatically better shape with Mark DeRosa getting Aaron Miles’ at-bats.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on May 8, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

DRO

is hitting a few point higher than Font, and a few lower than Harden. his BA would be 10 on the team currently.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 8, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BA is a silly stat to base your argument on.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on May 8, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fontenot

Would be the starting second baseman no matter what. He’s hitting better than DeRosa, and he’s a better defender. If the Cubs hadn’t gotten rid of DeRosa and picked up Bradley, DeRosa would have been the starting right fielder, with Fukudome/Johnson in center.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 9, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Saw the video

For those of you who didn’t see it either they got the video on cubs.com.

It looked nasty but we’re all guessing at the moment.

Is “lucky” the right word with injuries right now considering Zambrano is the only one on the DL?

And for those of you saying DeRosa should be back, I don’t think that’s the answer. He would have been starting anyways most days. A guy like Cedeno would have been nice right about now.

by ak123 on May 8, 2009 9:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks, gotta check it out

by DudeVf11 on May 8, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks awful on the video.

Hopefully he doesn’t need surgery. if he does, I wouldn’t be surprised if his season is over.

by DudeVf11 on May 8, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, onedec would be good for?

He is 4 for 29 right now with a .138 BA.

The trade of DeRosa will hurt for awhile. I don’t know exactly what I am trying to say here. But, DeRosa is a good answer and Ronny is not the answer to much of anything.

by jajonez77 on May 9, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, if their current stats matter

Then explain to me how DeRosa’s .250/.311/.458 line would solve a lot of problems.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 9, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's the thing about DeRo.

He’s off to a mediocre start (though a .769 OPS is exactly his career average). He is playing in parks he hasn’t seen in a couple years, facing pitchers he hasn’t seen in a couple years (since he was with Texas), if ever.

Would he be hitting .250/.311/.458 with the Cubs? Maybe, or maybe he’d be better. We can’t know.

In any case, those numbers are way better than Aaron Miles’.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 9, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Miles

I don’t think this makes Miles an every day player on the Cubs. They traded for Freel because they wanted a backup third baseman besides Fontenot, so I expect they’ll slot him in there for the time being.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 9, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First let’s make sure we have something clear.

Nobody that knows anything is saying anything about a timetable. It all depends on the severity of the dislocation and they won’t know that until an MRI.

And a dislocation is not as bed as a seperation.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by cubstoseriesby100 on May 8, 2009 9:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I would assume Ramirez will get a full battery of tests (MRI, dye injection) on Monday

I think we probably need to wait until mid-week of next week to have any conclusive medical evaluation.

by BLou on May 8, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why would they wait till monday?

they’ll do it tomorrow morning. It’s not like he’s going to play.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't they sometimes have to wait for the swelling to go down before they can do an MRI?

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 8, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I expect

he slept with ice on it.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on May 9, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Actually someone is probably driving him down to Chicago now. They will want to get the tests done now. They won’t wait til Monday. heck he might even be having them done in Milwaukee.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by cubstoseriesby100 on May 8, 2009 10:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Big blow to the team

No matter how long he’s going to be out, this sucks.

A lot of roads to the championship have been tough though. If the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals can win a WS, this team sure as hell can win a WS. Looks like we’ll have an equally bumpy ride if we are lucky enough to go down that road.

by FanBall on May 8, 2009 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Crap, double whammy

He was on my fantasy team too….son of a bee sting

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 8, 2009 10:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you think you got problems ?

I lost both Manny and Aramis in the last 48 hours, gee whiz as ronny would say

Someday we'll go all the way.

by Cubbinstrongsince86 on May 8, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

same boat for me as well

Funny the way it is, how a kid walks ten miles to school while another is dropping out

by heine41 on May 9, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fact is

Your shoulder is not meant to come out of place, and even if he isn’t out for an extended period, which is most likely not the case, the injury is sure to nag him all year.

It sucks, but injuries can derail even the best of teams, and right now it appears the injury bug has found a home with the Chicago Cubs.

I’m going to try and stay positive, but at the same time I can’t help but think with Lee’s lingering injury, Zambrano’s pulled hammy, Aramis’s calf and now shoulder, Bradley’s inevitable next injury, that its just too much to overcome. Bob and Len said it tonight, Ryan Theriot is the ONLY Cub to start every game this season.

However, as to avoid being called a ledge jumper, or whatever, I am not giving up on the Cubs’ season and I will also add that if they can get through all the injuries and still be competitive by the AS break, then they have a good chance at making a strong second half run.

by CubsFan87 on May 8, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Theriot

Theriot didn’t start last Friday’s game.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 8, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops

Not Friday. Whatever day the LIncecum game was. Tuesday?

by Old Style & Ivy on May 8, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Too early for Vitters?

Lets throw him in the fire…ha. Perhaps Fox will get a chance though

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 8, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes it's too early for Vitters

Both Camp and Spears are at AAA already and both have the whole lefthanded thing on their side

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on May 9, 2009 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vitters is not ready.

I just saw him in a three game series against the Lansing Lugnuts. He’s got promise, but is at least two years away.

Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!

by Zeke on May 9, 2009 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Im not ledge jumping but...

1.) The Cards lead the division :)
2.) Hoff is doing a fine job at 1st.
3.) (Throw salt over my shoulder and stand away from the ladder) Soto is due to pick up some slack at some point.
4.) Theriot hasn’t started every game. He didn’t start 5/5 Tue (the same day Sori sat out his first game of the season)

by jajonez77 on May 9, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just read that again

I don’t mean that the Cards in first is a good thing.

But, that they are playing above themselves.

by jajonez77 on May 9, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck my life.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on May 8, 2009 10:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He really is the one guy we couldnt lose

Soriano notwithstanding, Ramirez is so crucial to the lineup

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 8, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Paul Sullivan

says a member of the Brewers’ medical staff had to pop the shoulder back in, and that Ramirez could be out 4-6 weeks, though Ramirez will have an MRI tomorrow (Saturday).

by dfrancon on May 8, 2009 10:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Forgot to mention . . .

Sullivan’s story also details two other issues Ramirez has had with his left shoulder.

by dfrancon on May 8, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's nothing but speculation for Sullivan.

by kanderber on May 8, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

We all need to hang tight until the doctors publicly announce the findings of the MRI and other tests.

by BLou on May 8, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This has ruined my night, and most likely my weekend.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on May 8, 2009 11:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I feel sick.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on May 8, 2009 11:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Seriously, how long does it take to get an MRI.

Go in the machine. Scan the shit.

Analyze it.

Report it.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on May 8, 2009 11:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Mark Prior

is still stuck in the old machine

"Blagojevich's telephone log shows several calls to members of the team, including manager Lou Piniella, coach Larry Rothschild and John McDonough," -The Chicago Tribune 3/31/09

by TheRamZamDLEE on May 8, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahahah

funniest comment Ive ever seen on here

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 8, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

LMAO!

This is how I want to remember the last Mark Prior reference on this site. That was hilarious!

by DudeVf11 on May 8, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

mine took an average of 75 minutes

and i had three this month

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 8, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not to mention

if he has any fear of enclosed areas, and needs to be drugged for it, he cannot eat for minimum 4 hours prior to it

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on May 8, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They also have to get the results to the Cubs team surgeons who will have Ramirez’s full medical records.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by cubstoseriesby100 on May 9, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My heart fell into my stomach when I saw that happen

I had no idea where he was hurt at first, I just knew it was bad. My thoughts and prayers are with him and I hope he makes a speedy recovery. He’s stuck with this team and, I guess, in a way, has almost become “the quiet Beatle”, but you can tell he loves being on this team and playing in Chicago. He’ll be missed, and like I said, I hope he makes a speedy and a complete recovery.

by Craig in South Bend on May 8, 2009 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

similar injury in 2000

"I felt a pop. I’ve done it before," said Ramirez, who hurt the same shoulder in 2000 in Pittsburgh and missed six weeks. "It’s been nine years since I’ve been playing, it’s just one of those things."

Ramirez missed 6 weeks the last time he had a shoulder dislocation according to the yahoo game summary.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AuVJhkpQohK6sEEeDe2hOVoRvLYF?gid=290508108

by jeff_pico on May 8, 2009 11:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He's 30 years old now and we shall know nothing until the doctors do the MRI and evaluate

I have my fingers crossed that it is a 2 month kind of a thing.

by BLou on May 8, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

On a lighter note, what number will Freel be wearing?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 8, 2009 11:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They are saving money so he gets Aramis' number until he's back.

by DudeVf11 on May 8, 2009 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Link on ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4153416

Weeks, not months… but bad. The fact it took them “minutes” to pop it back in suggests it was bad. I’ve had my shoulder pop out before and it was just a quick snapping motion to put it back in… hurt the rest of the day, and pain lingered for probably a week… I wasn’t an all-star third baseman, though… so I’m sure they’ll be cautious… what a downer.

by lswaidz on May 8, 2009 11:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it took them 'minutes' to pop it back in because it took 'minutes' to get ARam off the field...

…and into the clubhouse where the medical staff (and ARam) would be in a much better position to pop it back in.

We’re not going to know how bad it is until they complete the MRI and the doctors analyze the results.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 9, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not looking at it as a sky is falling type thing

The bottom line is that it can pop out of joint and back in with no structure damage. The only thing is that once it goes out the more prone it is to happen again just as is the case here. I have seen the case where it took hours to put something like this back into place once it was out (utilizing bed sheets, multiple people, and muscle relaxers). I don’t think this is the case here.

If he didn’t have to go to the hospital this is good news. But, only a MRI will tell. Hopefully, he goes on the 15-Day DL and is ready to go again in 3 weeks.

I don’t see it being as bad as it could have been, hopefully.

by jajonez77 on May 8, 2009 11:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Losing Ramirez

is a tough blow. He’s our best player and most consistent RBI guy. Ryan Freel is not the answer. In 8 seasons, he has a career total of 22 home runs. Aramis hits more than that in a season. Injuries have been a real bitch for this team so far this season.

by qccub on May 9, 2009 1:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

My worst fear is that this could be somewhat of a career killer.

I am not a doctor nor have I ever had a dislocated shoulder, but how far fetched is it to think that this could be something that could happen again and again over the rest of his career?

I’m not so much worried of him reaggravating in the field but moreso at the plate. He has one of the most violent swings in the game. Just look at his last ab and his swing at the 3-1 fastball. He almost fell over.

The one thing that is somewhat of a silver lining is that it was his non throwing shoulder.

Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen

by lemon20pie on May 9, 2009 2:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Fact

Ram down for at minimum 15 days. Fact, Cubs need to adjust. Fact, Shit happens.
Get over it. Let us as fans move on and await the MRI results. Believe in that old adage, where God closes a door, A window opens.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on May 9, 2009 6:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Some some people around here

that window is on the 87th floor

Funny the way it is, how a kid walks ten miles to school while another is dropping out

by heine41 on May 9, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a-ram

first manny now aramis. not a good week for the ramirez,s. even worse for cub fans. because now your 3rd baseman is either fontenot or freel.and neither can match his production.and if lee goes down you lose a ton of production.i think we just saw our 3rd division title left in the 3rd base dust in milwaukee.just a crushing lost.

by NOMAR on May 9, 2009 7:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

But in baseball losing one player for a month or two isn’t a crippling blow. Let’s wait and see what the MRI results are.

by Old Style & Ivy on May 9, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

gee.depress much?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 9, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to be all doom and gloom, but...

Isn’t this the same thing that happened to Scott Rolen? Rolen went from a constant power threat to, well, not.

by kanderber on May 9, 2009 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No, it's not.

Rolen’s injury required surgery, and he missed a lot more time.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 9, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

1) The original prognosis on Rolen was 4-6 weeks. And…

2) We don’t know that Aramis isn’t going to need surgery.

by kanderber on May 9, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right.

Hopefully, we will know more later today after A-Ram’s MRI.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on May 9, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

THE OTHER HAVE TO STEP UP,,,,,,,,,,,,

With A-Ram healing up key players have to get going . …..Once he has a evaluation from a physician and the MRI results they will have a better idea . Just another set back .

by cubs north on May 9, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Latest on Ramirez

According to Cubs.com no further structural damage was done past the dislocation.

They said 2-3 months before his return. Not good, but not season ending either.

They also said DLee would go for MRI on Monday.

by ak123 on May 9, 2009 6:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

aramis

not season ending.might as well be. having aramis play only 1 or 2 months will really hurt this team.im sure we can still score runs but will the pitching be able to give up less than we score. thats the key.

by NOMAR on May 10, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs