What the Red Sox Did
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 9, 2009 8:18 AM CDT
47 comments
As many of you probably kow, Aramis Ramirez went down with an injury yeaterday, and the Cubs are also dealing with the injuries of Lee and Zambrano, and Soto isn't hitting well. The Red Sox, have had similar problems this year. First, their centerfielder and their shortstop both go down with injuries, Lowries being season ending. So they call up Nick Green and Johnathon Van Every, and they step it up. Van Every is slugging 636 and Green is hitting 278 and drove in 11. Then Dice-K goes down with an injury, so they call on Justin Masterson. Now Masterson started off good, but then declined a bit. But that's not the point, the point is, he gave his team a chance to win in 2 of his starts. These 3 men have kept the Red Sox winning while their everyday players have been out. As for other guys stepping up, the Cubs need to bring someone up who can play third (if I'm not mistaken, can't Fox play third?) and he needs to step it up. So, who will that be? Who will, step it up? If nobody can, then we're staring at 2009 Chicago Cubs, the team that could've.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Well we dont have the farm system the Red Sox do
After all, with all the injuries to their pitchers, they didnt even have to call up Clay Bucholz, who is better than anyone we’ve got in the minors. We’re wasting our best pitching prospect as a middle reliever b/c Hendry did a shitty job on the bullpen
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on May 9, 2009 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
...which is why the sawks are the sawks
the cubs need to commit to what the red sox did however many years ago, and ignore nothing. draft well. develop well.trade well.
when we are good at almost everything, success will happen. not until then.
by tim815 on May 9, 2009 8:44 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
One thing the Red Sox
could be accused of NOT doing well is signing Free agents:
Matt Clement, JD Drew, Julio Jugo, Re-upping Tek for that ridiculous contract. I guess if you got the money spend it, but theres a sample of some of the bad FA deals the team has made recently.
by Galvan316 on May 9, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz....
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on May 9, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily their farm system has helped offset the bad FA contracts.
Another note on the FAs mentioned by Galvan – it seems like they were signed during the organization’s transitional period between the 2003 and 2008 ALCS appearances. Perhaps this was by design, in order to buy some time until the likes of Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lowrie, etc were ready.
Similar to Dallas Green’s 5-year plan in Chicago, when all those Phillies were brought in to make the ML club competititve while the farm system was taking shape. By the time the likes of Cey and Moreland were washed up, the Cubs started bringing up Grace, Palmeiro, Maddux, Moyer, and others.
by CaliCub on May 9, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, Penny?
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on May 12, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point
and the Green comment is valid but Van Every has 11 AB’s. You could say that Scales slugging .800 and Wells with a 0.00 ERA have stepped it up as well as Van Every.
by rlpete on May 9, 2009 9:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fox isn't going to play 3rd....
He’s a DH.
Freel might be the man to “bring a spark”, but it all comes down to our big guns getting on track…..Lee, Gameboard, and Geo. If they continue to struggle, it’s going to be a long month w/o Rami.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 9, 2009 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OR
We could try to play effective small ball. However is Lou continues the righty/lefty OBSESSION with pinch hitting in particular this will be a LONG season.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness to Lou...
… all managers these days have the same obsession.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 9, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry not too many managers would do what he has done
Pull Dome for Soto in a crucial situation and even more fun in the game last week pull Fontenot for Johnson which forced us to use a guy at third that had not played the position since HS. My gripe against Lou since early last season ( Yes that Phillies game again) is that HE CAN NOT MANAGE A BENCH OR BULLPEN. He NEVER thinks more than one batter at at time. He goes through the bench like crap through a goose ( for film buffs I think that one is appropriate analogy for Lou ). His little book says lefty must face righty forget HOW THAT ACTUAL PLAYER HITS. He deals with the bullpen as if they were naughty and untrustworthy children, all fire & brimstone and no support.
I am not an a ledge and I don’t think the sky is falling. I still believe the Cubs have enough talent to win DESPITE Lou and his bad managing.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he is horrible
Funny that the guy even has a job, by your description he wouldn’t be qualified to sell t-shirts outside Wrigley field. If Lou sucks as much as you suggest, why did they hire him in the first place? I don’t even know how he can win games when he “NEVER thinks more than one batter at a time” never, really? I understand your frustration, but your comments frustrate me more than Lou at this point. Your normally a very reasonable person, so I figure this must be in the wake of Aramis and a Cubs loss.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on May 9, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
Jessica has never been in favor of the Lou hiring. I don’t agree with it, but there it is.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 9, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had mixed feelings
I admit to having a soft spot for Girardi. I did NOT say anything against him the first year but yes early last season I more or less had an ephifany while attending the Phillies series in April. I have pretty much been non stop then
about A. His inability to manage the bench. B His inability to manage the bullpen. C. His “My way or the highway” managing style. For the most part he has had very good players to work with but I think he poorly balances them overusing some and sending others off to the famous “dog house”. I got the non stop mocking last year because how dare I question a guy who won the World Series and lead the Cubs to a 97 win season. Well the much maligned Dusty got us further than Lou has so far. And before anyone asks do I want Dusty back , no I don’t BUT WHY ARE THESE MY TWO CHOICES. The most successful managers of late are a mix of Dusty’s INSPIRING PLAYERS by having faith in them and Lou’s old school stuff. I kind of like to think sometime in the future Sandberg might be that guy.
Look I know Lou is not going to get fired and I sincerely doubt he is going to change his ways which is why I say the Cubs should win despite him not because of him. I am annoyed at everyone wants to dump all the blame on Hendry who deserves his share but basically got Lou the team HE wanted .
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a good point
Yeah its true, we shouldn’t be blaming Hendry for the whole thing, and as Drew said I do indeed recall you not being a fan of the Lou deal from the beginning. So I was too quick on the trigger on that one. Agreed on Sandberg, but I really hope that we can accomplish the goal before that.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on May 9, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked Girardi
which may not have been such a good idea but I actually warmed up to Lou when he first arrived. I don’t recall saying anything against him during the first season but I just went ballistic after the Philly series. Ironically it was
a game the Cubs won ( on an error and a bad call) that turned me into a serious Lou detractor.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Joe G has had
major success in NYC. It appears…and Girardi’s tenure needs to play out (it may be short) he might be able to work wonders with kids. With veterans, his (what appears to be) hard-nosed style doesn’t mean anything.
He seemed awfully naive in that press conference the other day…
("….why would anybody write a book (on A-Rod) like that??)
Um….for the money, Joe?
Lou is not perfect, but many had a love affair on this site with Joe G because he was a former Cub….and he helped a minor-league Marlins team win. (And, because he was still a ‘fresh’ face.)
But, it appears by taking the reins of a real, major market team…..he may not be up to the challenge. At least Lou had a track record of winning over a period of years.
And, in fairness, the Yankees job is probably the toughest one in MLB…with the Cubs job….the next toughest, for obvious reasons.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 9, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Girardi is not suited for a major market team, at least not yet.
If the Yankees continue to stumble, he could be fired by midseason.
If the Yankees miss the playoffs again this year, I suspect Girardi is gone at the end of the year.
Girardi led the Marlins to a winning record, barely, 84-78. They didn’t “win” anything. He’d probably be better off taking another low-profile job for a while.
And then you have to ask yourself why a guy who DID lead a team to a winning record was unceremoniously fired not long after the season ended.
I was in favor of Joe, too, but I was wrong. He’d have been the wrong choice for the Cubs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 9, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well to be fair
He was “dumped” because the owner was major league asshole who Joe called out for getting in a fight with an umpire which did the team no good. I like him a l lot but there is a little too much ex military in him for my tastes . I was really stunned when he forced Andre Dawson to shave his moustache. A bit much for a guy who was not even working on the field and a lack of respect. Joe needs to relax a little but that won’t happen in NYC.
I was wrong about him too but he is a good guy and I wish him well except with the Yankees.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right about...
… the “my way or the highway” ideas Joe seems to have. Those rarely work in modern baseball.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 10, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty had the same "doghouse" as Lou.
With Dusty, there were “his guys”, like Ramon Martinez and Neifi Perez and Jose Macias, and there were “not his guys”, who never saw the field under any circumstances.
For instance, I seem to remember Jason DuBois getting yanked in the 4th inning for Jose Macias in a big AB.
I remember double-switches being made when they were completely unnecessary – such as the time Lou put John Mabry in RF for no reason, double-switching to bring Howry in to pitch only the 8th inning — it would have worked exponentially better to use Mabry as a pinch hitter after the 8th, especially considering that Mabry lost a ball in the sun and cost the Cubs the game.
Dusty would be a below average MLB manager if the field included all US citizens. He is a stupid person. Lou is a good MLB manager, who was stuck between a rock and a hard place on the “Koyie at 3B” night. Lou always manages to win the game that is in front of him, and letting Fontenot bat in the 9th inning with the winning run in scoring position is stupid.
The guy cannot hit left-handed pitching, at least not at this point in his career. He’s beyond miserable against southpaws.
So Lou took a chance to win the game, knowing that we were ridiculously shorthanded with Aramis and Bradley “out” but not on the DL. It didn’t work out. It doesn’t mean that it was a bad strategy. It probably gave us the best chance to win.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 11, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, Dusty was a bad manager. He made some really bad decisions and
lost some games, but why do you have to resort to calling him stupid? Is that really necessary? How would you like it if I came to your job, made a two-minute assessment of your performance and called you stupid? I really think you need to check yourself.
I realize that people get frustrated when the team loses and managers make decisions that you don’t agree with, but I really resent the name-calling. Do you realize what you are saying when you call a person stupid? Would you want the same treatment? My goodness, have some common decency and respect for a fellow human being. If you disagree with his decisions and don’t like his performance say so, but calling a person stupid crosses the line.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 12, 2009 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a 2-minute assessment.
It’s years of watching him fail as a manager in Chicago and now Cincy, and years of listening to him speak publicly, both as the Cubs manager and as an ESPN talking head. And it’s not malaprops — it’s repeated, weirdly flawed assertions of fact and logic. My 2003-2009 assessment – He is not a smart person.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 12, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last I checked
Cincinatti was ahead of the Cubs in the standings. I give you the weird statements but I for one was never sure he really meant them. I mean if Lou MEANT that the reason he would not remove Sori in the late innings ( mainly 9th) innings for a defensive replacement because " He is a superstar and the fans expect to see him" it would be as dumb as anything Dusty ever said. Dusty was insanely defensive when he made the malapropisms but some of them ( like the one on pigment) he was clearly joking. Dusty still had the best year as a Cub manager in the last 60 plus and it wasn’t an accident. I think we can all agree he wore out his welcome but he is not an idiot.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 12, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me, but what exactly are your credentials for evaluating mangerial talent? I'm
sure Dusty is disappointed that you feel that his ability to manage dosn’t meet your exceedingly high standards. You can no more assess a person’s intellect by listening to them speak on TV than a doctor can assess a person’s condition from a mile away through a telescope.
Obviously you are not a Dusty fan and I am not here to defend a single decision he made on the baseball field, but to objectively evaluate his team’s performances in San Francisco and Chicago and call the man stupid shows your lack intellegence. You may not like the man and you may feel than his decisions don’t measure up to your standards, but to call another individual stupid based on the evidence you have given shows your total lack regard for anything decent. Go find another punching bag. You are embarassing yourself.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 12, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou was NOT between a rock and hard place with Hill
He had a decent batter ( Fonty) due up. This was not the pitchers spot in the 10th with runners in scoring position and nobody out. He took a HUGE risk for a low reward. This is the same game in which he pulled Marshal after 5 innings while Tony left in his struggling pitcher and gave him a vote of confidence by not even warming anyone one when he had the bases loaded and nobody out in the 6th and Adam Wainright is not an ace. The same way his reckless managing with a TOTALLY HEALTHY roster had him use the ENTIRE bench in a TIE ROAD GAME in April of 2007 in THE FIRST 9 INNINGS. Sorry that is BAD managing. Managing the game means thinking one batter ahead. He also has a penchant ( though less so this year given fewer options) to use perfectly good pitchers for ONE batter and I don’t mean a lefy/righty etc match up and then finding he has too few pitchers left.
We have discussed Dusty’s flaws but he is hardly an idiot. The thing I miss about Dusty was not his in game managing which was often as upsetting as Lou’s but that he actually inspired players and made every guy on the roster feel a key part of the team. Call me soft but I happen to think this works better than the "my way or the highway " Lou style. Now Dusty went way overboard in wanting to be players friend but there is a school of managing in which you can actually be friendly with and admired by players and still run a tight ship. That is the kind of manager I would like.
Just curious how the guy you think is a below average manager has gotten a lot closer to the World Series than Lou since 2001. He looks to be doing a pretty good job this year as well.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 12, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no such manager.
Or if there is, I challenge you to tell me who he is.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on May 12, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terry Francona, Mike Sciossa
and more than a few others . The point is there is a MIDDLE GROUND between those two managing styles and Cubs went from one extreme to the other and frankly both of them were not very good at in game managing decisions. Seriously you don’t think there are managers that can have a basically friendly and supportive relationship with players without losing control of a team or coddling bad players ?. Frankly I am pretty hard pressed to think of single manager as " old school" as Lou. Girardi might be close in how he thinks of things but he younger and has significantly more personal relationship with players from what I see here.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on May 12, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Lou's defense, Fontenot is miserable against LHP.
He has 1 hit this year against left-handed pitching.
Which reminds me, it’s a good thing we got rid of his platoon partner.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 11, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that a fair assessment?
He has less than 20 PAs vs. LHP.
In 25 PAs vs. LHP last season, he put up a .893 OPS.
Both samples are so small, I don’t see how a conclusion can be reached.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 11, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly the old-school guys do
It will be interesting to see how managing changes over the next decade, as younger guys with younger ideas take over.
by CaliCub on May 9, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty vs. Lou
I’m not going to throw out a lot of stats, but certainly Lou had/has a lot more talent on the roster than Dusty could ever dream of. Plus, he at least won a playoff game and a series. No Lee, DeRo, Marmol, Soto, Sori, etc. etc.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on May 12, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So have we all agreed
The Cubs should keep Scales up? Let’s say he stinks, then who comes up?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 9, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
there's an entire carousel of
second basemen and shortstops in AAA.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on May 9, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Tony Thomas
In Peoria?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 9, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is in Tennessee
Right now he’s absolutely crushing the ball
He could get called up before all is said and done.
by IllinoisCubs on May 9, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
My bad. I’d hope it was him if Scales fails.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 9, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you're saying is that the Cubs should
Call up Nick Green, Justin Masterson and Johnathon Van Every?
by Arbusto on May 9, 2009 12:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Get 'er done, Jimbo!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on May 9, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think..
with these injuries, that this will be a good test of this teams character. Who can emerge as a leader now since Rammy and Z are DL’d. It should be interesting to see who steps up.. cause we are not going to be in cruise control like we were last year.
by BadDecisions on May 9, 2009 1:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well we saw what cruise control did
And even in ’07 we had the division lead since August 1st.
We saw what happened those years.
by IllinoisCubs on May 9, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays of 2008
Had major injuries to Longoria and Kazmir (with Kazmir an injury seems to be a pitch away) And managed to make the World Series, the Phillies had a bad start last year and still won the whole thing.
This season is not over, but perfromances the last two nights in Milwaukee cannot be accepted.
by Galvan316 on May 10, 2009 7:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sox
one thing the sox have are guys that step up when injuries occur. we dont. of course losing z ramirez and possibly lee is too much to overcome.
by NOMAR on May 10, 2009 7:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Zambrano will be back in 9 days thats basically one more start
Micha has done a serviceable job at 1B, Bradley “looks” to be heating up and We have Soriano. We need Soto to kick it into gear and have the continued contributions by Fukudome to weather this strom.
by Galvan316 on May 10, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Micha has done a serviceable job at 1B,
I woiuld say he has done better than that. For whatever reason, it seems on BCB Micah could be God and most still would not give him credit
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on May 10, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that a bit of an overstatement? Sure, he has done admirably in filling in for
DLee so far this year and he has been recognized for his accomplishments, but let’s not start building a bust for him yet. I think the complaints about him have dropped to a slow trickle. Projecting his stats out over a full season would give you about 30 HR and 100 RBI. He’s cut down on his strikeouts but he is still a ways from learning the strike zone. A healthy DLee would struggle to acheive those numbers so on balance he has been a success. He deserves credit for his year so far and in most cases, he’s getting it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 11, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
giradi
dont judge joe to harshly.after all the yankees have had tons of injuries last year and this year.and the way our season is going this could be the impetus to make lou retire.we all know how he hates to lose. he did it with the mariners and the rays. he could do it with us.and if joe is available we all know a lot of people would want him.
by NOMAR on May 10, 2009 7:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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