What is a ledge-jumper?
by redward on Jun 1, 2009 11:46 AM CDT
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PrintThe big meme around here lately seems to be that of the ledge-jumper. What kind of comments constitute ledge-jumping? When is it acceptable? Don't people have a right to post here regardless of their views?
What's a ledge-jumper?
I think that distinction lies in what is constructive criticism and what is not. Here's a little story: A few years ago I was at the Cell watching the Red Sox play the White Sox. The Red Sox were down two runs, had two men on base, and Manny was up to bat. A kid behind me, maybe 10 years old, kept shouting "Hit a HOMER, Manny! Hit a THREE-RUN HOMER!"
Good job, son. A home run would indeed score three runs, putting your Red Sox in the lead. Thank God Manny now knows what to do.
My point, aside from ridiculing a child, is that pointing out the obvious doesn't really add anything to the conversation. Nor does suggesting patently ridiculous moves. We all know Cotts needed to throw strikes. You can't trade Lee because he has a NTC. Nothing short of a time machine is likely to get DeRosa back.
Moving Marshall to the bullpen? Constructive idea. Not terribly popular around here, it seems, but it's something the Cubs could actually do (and it appears now that they may).
So to me, a ledge-jumper is the guy declaring the season over even when we're within striking distance of the division lead. A ledge-jumper is the guy demanding a trade after every loss, a DFA after every at-bat. It's the guy who's all anger and no substance.
Sucks to your asthmar! I can post whatever I want.
True, to a point. One more anecdote here: My girlfriend used to complain to me every day about her stupid boss and stupid co-workers. Eventually she realized that she was essentially just redirecting all her anger and frustration with them at me, which was actually a pretty crappy thing to do. Now she just gives me the highlights of their ineptitude and moves on so she doesn't drag me down with her.
You're free to express your frustration. But the people here aren't the ones blowing the plays. So why take it out on each other? My philosophy is to shake my head, shake it off, and move on.
I don't think everything around here has to be unicorns and rainbows. There are some legitimate issues with this team, even putting injuries aside. But I also think rampant negativity because you're frustrated doesn't do anyone any good.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Why did you link to the the SB Nation team pages?
Or did it automatically do that? If so, that’s gonna get annoying.
I think they all do that
Cause all the new ones posted today have.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 1, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
that's some slick code right there.
it only does it for the first time a team is mentioned.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Read the link in my front page story today...
… which tells about the new features and how to use them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ledge jumper = anybody who doesn't buy into the excuse making and rationalization of this team
I’ve been a diehard since 1977 and my fanhood was actually called into question when I used the word “us” in referring to the Cubs today. Apparently if you don’t examine this Cub team and see an NL Central division title and post-season glory in the making then your an idiot. Likewise, if you don’t predict wondrous turnaround for Geovany the Juicer Soto, Mike Fontenot, et al then you are an apparent traitor of highest magnitude.
Al Yellon perpetuates a lot of this despite his numerous high qualities otherwise. In Al’s world Jim Hendry is just another couple million dollars of spending money away from fielding a 100 win ballclub.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
You've made some good and interesting suggestions for improving the team
But I don’t think accusing Soto of juicing is appropriate or productive. I’d like to see him shed the weight he gained in the off-season and see what, if any effect that has. If you’ve got a case for him taking steroids, by all means lay it out. But unless you’ve got some kind of evidence, it’s just libel.
Good grief
Libel? You’ve got to be kidding me F. Lee Bailey. My conclusion on Soto shall stand so long as Bud Selig and the players’ union perpetuate a fraud on the baseball public when it comes to performance enhancing drugs and their impact on the game. Geovany has had intensive playing time on the field since early March and STILL remains fat. So don’t give me this crap that he needs a program to get into shape. Most catchers lose 5-8 pounds of sweat a game working behind the plate.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
In other words
If you’ve got a case for him taking steroids, by all means lay it out.
He can’t. He’s got nothing, and he just likes to stir up trouble.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow....just using some science here.
1 pound of water = 0.453 6 Liters
so most catchers will sweat between 2.2 and 3.6 Liters of sweat EVERY GAME?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 1, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually
Frighteningly, that wouldn’t surprise me. I remember reading (a long time ago) in a profile of an olympic water polo player, that he lost around 10 pounds per match. Of course, he was eating an obscene amount of calories (~10,000) and constantly hydrating so he didn’t just pass out. Also, an interview with a guy who played football back in the 60s talked about how they didn’t hydrate during the game, and afterwords he would usually drink a case of beer and not have to go to the bathroom.
Not really a direct comparison, but I think I generally underestimate how much playing can take out of a person, and need to be reminded of it every so often.
Not that I think this lends credence to Blou’s assertion of juicing, I’m just saying. Hydration good.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 1, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I do
or, at least, used to do Western Martial Arts. After a day of fighting, I used to be able to drink three liters of gatorade without going to the bathroom. And the gatorade would taste good.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Goalies
can easily lose 15 lbs during a game in a warm building. Years ago Murray Bannerman was so dehydrated after a game in the old and very warm Checkerdome in StL, he had to be kept in a local hospital overnight.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Most catchers lose 5-8 pounds of sweat a game working behind the plate.
so, if a catcher catches 120 games, they lose (over the season) between 600 and 960 pounds of sweat?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
well
you gain that sweat back from the strippers and the lube.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Evidence is compelling
Pre-2007 Soto was overweight and a virtual non-prospect. Then all of a sudden he becomes a physical specimen in 2007 and starts raking against Triple A pitching en route to the majors where he continues to do well. Fast forward to 2009 and major league baseball is getting more aggressive in its testing programs (e.g., Manny Ramirez being caught). My theory is that Soto got off the juice after last season for fear of getting caught ala Manny. And being off the juice resulted in his old body returning complete with slowish bat speed. I do not for a minute buy into the argument that Soto all of a sudden lost his discipline and work ethic to stay in shape. Plus for crying out loud he has been actively catching since the begining of spring training and is STILL fat. If playing major league baseball everyday and crouching behind the plate doesn’t get you into better physical shape then what am I missing here!?!?
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Manny's positive test occured during ST...
…and wasn’t announced till about a month later, so I don’t see how Manny being caught had anything to do with Geo.
Geo showed up to ST in pretty good shape then went to the WBC and put on weight. I hear what you’re saying about his numbers being suspicious over the past 3 years but that’s really all they are — suspicions.
I guess if he roided during the offseason and stopped before the WBC, that could explain the weight issue — but it’s not fair to assume a guy is cheating without any solid evidence. Do you believe the same thing for Big Papi?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
Actually, I'm very suspicious of Big Papi
his power numbers with the Twins were mediocre at best-he goes to Boston, blows up like a Macy’s Thanksgiving Parade balloon and starts pounding the ball. Stricter testing
procedures come into play and he suddenly falls off the face of the Earth.
Also, it’s not that Manny testing positive would have had a direct effect on Geo-it’s more the idea that players were starting to realize about the stricter testing and, because of that, a guy
like Geo might’ve seen the writing on the wall several months ago.
And, for what it’s worth, I’m very aware that there’s something fundamentally wrong with convicting someone based on only circumstantial evidence. i hate that I’ve started to think this way but I hate even more that my favorite sport allowed this problem to get so out of control that it’s left so many of us jaded and suspicious of almost everybody.
Very well stated
If people can’t stand that suspicion about Geovany Soto then write a letter to Bud Selig and Donald Fehr who have allowed this issue to become so out of hand in major league baseball.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
that's ridiculous
you’re trying to justify slandering a player’s character based on someone else’s inaction.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Is Geovany "VERY likable" too Drewish?!?!?
Because if he is then that TOTALLY throws a monkey wrench into the baseball argument.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
you are extremely crabby today.
Go have a milkshake or something.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Me too
I’m ashamed that when Theriot started hitting HRs the first thing I thought of was steroids. The Players Association did the players and the sport of baseball no favors by fighting testing for so long.
Absolutely
For most of my life as a fan I’ve been a big supporter of the player’s union but there’s no doubt that, in this case at least, they completely blew it by protecting guys and putting up roadblocks to testing, etc. In the end, their policies hurt everybody.
I think management has to accept some of the responsibility for the current situation. They
loved the way the turnstiles were spinning when players were hitting 50+ home runs per year on a regular basis. They weren’t exactly jumping up and down to force the players to submit to testing. It was only after slap hitting giuys started hitting home runs in bunches that the attention was brought to bear. The owners were making big bucks off the situation. Their hands are not clean in this.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 1, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
no one is innocent
- fans bought tickets and jerseys of those who were on it
- owners knew but were enjoying the gate $$$
- managers knew, but liked their jobs
- teammates knew, but turned the other way
- agents knew, but enjoyed the large contracts
- former players knew, and most shut up about it (Canseco, is one of a few who spoke out about it).
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I agree on all counts
That’s one of the most frustrating things about this; where exactly to assess blame.
When I look back, I can’t believe how naive I was ten years ago to actually buy into the “ball is wound tighter” or “the players just have better work out regiments these days”.
I do belive though that the player’s association made it that much harder to address the situation by their stubborn tendency to protect players while not offering up any meaningful solutions.
But, yes, with th emoney they were making, the owners probably weren’t complaining too loudly either.
I'm not sure that assigning blame is going to do any good
unless it’s tied into some sort of penalty system to stop it from continuing and prevent it from becoming so prevelent again.
For now, everybody screwed up is probably as good as it’s going to get
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 1, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You say...
I do not for a minute buy into the argument that Soto all of a sudden lost his discipline and work ethic to stay in shape.
So if you take steroids and work hard, you get lean and better at baseball; however, if you continue to work hard, yet discontinue the steroids, then you become fat and bad at baseball?
Your logic is flawed, ignorant, and flat out wrong. Get a clue… clown.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 1, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
so weight gain
is your evidence for Soto being an ex-juicer? how is weight gain compelling evidence?
Hasn't weight loss been an indicator of a person getting off steroids? How is it that BLou's argument
defies past indicators? So if you lose a lot of weight, you used to be on steroids and if you gain a lot of weight, you used to be on steroids. Can anyone else see the flaw in this logic?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 1, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't think if any examples immediately...
Oh wait, Ivan Rodriguez, Luis Gonzalez, and Sammy Sosa pop into mind as guys who were linked and are now a hell of a lot smaller.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Sosa was never linked
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Sosa has never been proven, but has been
linked and/or suspected.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
The mitchell report is not the end all be all.
Where Mitchell’s team could establish fact, players were named.
A-Rod wasn’t in the report and look how that ended up.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
link to your "fact" please
since no one has been able to provide one before
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
FYI suspected is not linked
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I said and/or suspected.
The cloud over Sammy is very dark and he shrunk like a 70’s era shrinky dink under the heat of the press.
Linked does not equal proof, however, in an interview with Mike & Mike a few weeks ago, “tainted” was the phrase used by Peter Gammons in conversation with them and I would equate tainted to linked, suspected, etc.
As this is not a trial, nor do I have decision making ability on anything with the former Cub superstar, circumstantial evidence may be enought to justify the word linked.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 1, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
to say linked
would insinuate some proof, instaed of saying that your opinion (and the opinion of many) is………..
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
wow .. shrinky dinks
+ 25 BCB points just for that obscure reference to a childhood fantasy both oddly and frighteningly familiar to Cubs fans
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
And as we all know, nothing like this ever happened in baseball before steroids
And that’s why it happens all the time now.
Oh, wait. I guess not.
This is such a stupid and specious line of argument that it’s dumb even for you BLou.
Of course it hasn't. The term "Sophomore Slump" is just a figment of our imagination. Anytime
it has happened in the past, it has always been the result of steroids. Even before players started taking steroids, If a player had a good year followed by a bad one, it had to be because of steroids. Isn’t that how it goes?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 1, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
So from end of 2007
through all of 2008 was on the juice and didn’t get caught???
I’m guessing he enjoyed too many groceries and beverages during the offseason, came to camp overweight, stayed that way in the WBC and still hasn’t caught up.
He needs to work on losing weight and getting in the cages with Perry.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
And with the risk of being called "sentimental"...
… the loss of Kerry Wood may be partly to blame. Wood was the one who introduced Soto to the diet he was on and the two of them did it together last year.
Without Wood to keep on Soto’s butt to stick to it, maybe Geo went off the diet.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i don't know how accurate this is....
but somebody was just telling me that he read that the during the playoffs last year, the Dodgers figured out that Soto’s weakness was sliders out of the zone. Supposedly that theory has made it’s way around the league and that’s what’s being exploited right now.
If this is true, then the next step for Geo is to adjust to their adjustments or go the way of Rick Wilkins.
If we know this...
… why doesn’t the coaching staff know this?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I hear
BLou gets his estrogen shots from Manny’s supplier.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember reading that when Randy Hundley caught for the Cubs
he would lose thirty pounds over the course of the summer. Catching takes A LOT out of you. Okay, so none of us knows for sure what Soto’s problem is but there’s NO WAY I’m attributing his fall off to the fact that he’s suddenly apparently incapable of getting (and/or staying) in shape.
Whatever the situation though, I think his day’s as a starting catcher are numbered.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 1, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Well lets make a run a Joe Mauer when hes a FA
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Albiet with bad knees
and talk about having to move him to first to accomodate his legs.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
TWSS
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
You forgot
they test in the minors even more than MLB. Geo had his breakout year for the I-Cubs then carried it over into last year. If you’re talking masked substance…..not sure if he is that smart.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Don't know where to reply but
As I’ve stated many times before, I certainly believe Soto is a “juicer”. The current testing program is shit, starting with the fact that they don’t do blood tests. People are taking steroids that you can’t even detect with blood tests and they only do urine in MLB. Why?
He hasn’t been caught, but I think it’s just a matter of time. For 5-6 years his numbers were of someone who could have been a career minor leaguer. Then all of the sudden he hits like an elite catcher. The reasoning is that he lost some weight in the offseason and somehow learned to hit. If that doesn’t sound extremely suspicious, I don’t know what does.
He lost the weight
when Kerry Wood shared his diet plan with him. Kerry challenged him to lose weight in spring training. Go back and find the articles.
I do not question
That he lost weight. I question, however, how someone can have 5-6 years of mediocrity in the minors and then become elite in the majors in the blink of an eye (he had that breakout year, was called up, and was instantly a monster), He didn’t become good, he became elite. And I am supposed to believe that losing weight is the cause of that? No way.
sometimes
it just clicks. And obviously, it’s not something he was able to maintain through the postseason, either.
If you succeed, you’re on the juice.
If you fail, you’re on the juice.
Gain weight, juice.
Lose weight, juice.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 2, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
you have no evidence.
come back when you do.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 2, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't worry
I’m secretly taking multiple blood samples of each player. I’ll come back with the evidence.
I would NEVER be a ledge jumper
I am afraid of heights and have only been in the upper deck ONCE in the last 25 years.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
Your kid anecdote is wrong
If you’re basing your theory of ledge jumping on
I think that distinction lies in what is constructive criticism and what is not.
and
So to me, a ledge-jumper is the guy declaring the season over even when we’re within striking distance of the division lead. A ledge-jumper is the guy demanding a trade after every loss, a DFA after every at-bat. It’s the guy who’s all anger and no substance.
Then the kid is clearly not ledge jumping. Ledge jumping is saying you give up. But he offered a useful, and viable, way for his team to win (the opposite of giving up).
Had instead the kid been mumbling “Manny’s gonna strike out, and hurt himself on his way back to the dugout and the season is ruined in a typical Red Sox way,” then you’d have a case he was ledge jumping.
Cheering your team on is hardly anywhere close to ledge jumping, so what if it’s pointing out the obvious. Shouting at the batter to hit a homer is ledge jumping? Do you next not want us to hope and cheer for a strike out or a double play ball or outs at all (since getting outs is an obvious way to move through a ballgame)? Should we get more creative? “Hey, Sori, feign like you don’t know where the ball your about to catch is so the base-runner goes and you can catch him in a DP.” “Ok, nobody hit a homerun today, if you all hit triples we’ll do even better!”
Perhaps it wasn't the best anecdote for the job
But my point was, whether you’re being positive or negative, you should have something useful to say if you’re going to say it. Otherwise, what’s the point?
To me, yelling at Soriano to get a home run and yelling at him to not strike out are equally pointless. Begging him to lay off breaking balls low and away is probably more constructive.
I’m not saying that a fan shouting that will suddenly turn the light on in his head, but at least you’re not making yourself sound like an idiot by yelling “Hey Fonzie! Win the game!”
interestingly
I HAVE seen positive statements from the “stands” have an effect on kids playing little league. I expect that once you get into the high-minors, random positive statements are a) not loud enough to be heard, and b) not needed unless the player is having a real crisis of confidence.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Then why cheer ever?
What useful thing can we say…ever?
Why cheer an out, a k, a bang-bang play?
I think you just want to watch golf.
There is a bit of a difference...
cheering for events past tense (like an out, a K, or a bang-bang play) is different than telling Soriano what he should do.
I guess I'm just asking for refined cheering.
The difference between a fan who jumps up at each pop fly as if it’s screaming out of the park and the one who actually can tell if it has a chance.
I’m an elitist snob, is what I’m trying to say.
Good post
And A+ re; your philosophy. Unfortunately, it seems that in the online world too many people can’t resist the temptation to get confrontational (and sometimes downright abusive) any time anyone posts something that they don’t like. Still, it never hurts to be reminded that sometimes the best response is to just ignore it and move on.
Perhaps the problem with the many in the community,
myself included, read stuff where I agree and move on without comment. I usually post when I disagree.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
this is where
the Rec function and +1 come in. :D
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
+1 rec'd
:-)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Understood, just thinking many
are probably like me and only take the time when not agreeing.
If most are the same, the content would appear to skew more negative.
just a non disagreeing thought
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
A ledge jumper
Anyone who says the Cubs are done today June 1st or any day before that. I’ve seen people on here last year and 2007 say the Cubs were going to lose the division during the first week of Spring Training.
so its too soon
to break out the wait til next year signs for the 2010 season’s failings?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
BALTIMORE PTBNL
SUCKS!
Wait, let me rephrase…
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
Here is my credo
I am a fan. My mood rises and falls with the fortunes of my team.
I have invested years into this team, through rotten times and good ones. I have endured the taunts of rival fans. I have supported this team with my time and treasure.
Owners make millions per game and players make millions per year. They are highly-paid professionals signed to do a job.
I have my own job. I have my own family to attend to. I have a boss above me and workers below me.
I am not here to serve the team. I am not here to make them feel better, or be constructive, or support them when they do not deserve it. If I wish to boo, I will. If I wish to cheer, I will.
If I irrationally think “6-0! We can come back from this!” or irrationally think, “3-0! Game over!” then THAT IS MY RIGHT AS A FAN!
The team is here to make me feel better, not the other way around. When they do, I cheer. When they don’t, I boo.
I am a fan. I do not have to answer to anyone for how a team makes me feel.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 1, 2009 2:01 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Homer: See Marge, I told you they could fry my shirt.
Marge: I didn’t say they couldn’t, I said you shouldn’t!
Of course you have every right to feel how you feel. And of course you have every right to say what you want to say. I just think people (not you specifically) should put more thought into why they say the the things they say, so that when they do speak (or post), there’s something worth hearing (or reading).
by redward on Jun 1, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Worf, I couldn't have put it better myself
In fact, that might be the best post I’ve ever read here. Well done!
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I dont consider myself a ledge jumper .....
but i have to admit i dont see a 90 win team this year and think we will be lucky to get the wild card spot. i think the questionable offseason moves this year really made a lot of us start the season very skeptical of the roster. i know this year is a little off when i found myself agreeing with joe morgan last night when he said the cubs over reacted to their playoff loss last year and as a result weakened the team with their left handed batting obsession. that being said i am trying to remain positive until at least the allstar break but i do understand why some are being so negative right now.
Yeah
That was a terrifying moment last night, with Joe laying the science on Hendry and Lou.
I may be one of the last people left who still like the Bradley signing, but I would have been happy keeping last year’s team to the man.
I like Bradley too
and I think he’ll do well for us.
But I remember a post that asked “what changes would you make” and I said “none”.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I just don't agree with the
DeRosa, Wood decisions = this year’s performance. It’s mainly the guys we kept that are stinking up the joint right now – Lee, Soto, Fontenot, Soriano, Theriot. Milton Bradley is a good hitter and he will hit this season. Right now the thing that is killing us is the Ramirez injury. If there’s anyone on this team that could be considered clutch it’s Ramirez. So I don’t agree with Joe Morgan (surprise!). A team that laid consecutive 0-3 postseason eggs needed to be shaken up. If we stuck with DeRosa, etc. and still had the record we do right now everyone would be crying about how we should have signed a lefty like Milton Bradley. It never ends. The only thing that can stop the second guessing is better play by the team and unfortunately that’s not up to us.
Agree 99%
The only thing I disagree at all with you is Theriot. He’s been very good this year and I think he alone is credited with 2 or 3 wins on the team.
I refuse to criticize GM decisions even if I don’t like them. I’m not a GM and I don’t know what goes on in there when constructing a team but it has to be the most painful heartaching experience (eventhough I think it would be fun!). It’s just too early to make decisions for the whole season.
proof that the Red Sox condone estrogen treatments
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
I am the poster boy for impatience and worry
Spend a day with me and you’ll find out that lines are never short enough, cars never drive fast enough, and phone calls are never returned quick enough. To top it off, I absolutely hate surprises and not knowing the outcome of things.
Naturally this shapes the way I watch baseball. It’s agony for me to watch any game where the Cubs aren’t in the lead from the get-go and end up winning 9-1 or 11-3. Some of it has to do with the club’s star-crossed history, but most of it is my nature – and that’s with me even being on anti depressants!
More often than not I’ll simply check the score around the 7th or 8th and if they’re ahead then I’ll put on the game and pop into BCB with a clever “Cubs Win” image courtesy of Photoshop. If they’re losing, then I’ll turn the channel and wait to read the game recap the next day. Then, while reading the game recap, I’ll repeat a silent litany of “did anyone get hurt, is so-and-so still slumping, when is the sale of the team going to be done”. A couple hours later the lineups for that day’s game get posted and the whole process begins again.
That’s why I classify myself as a private ledge jumper. I try never to post in BCB when I’m in a bad mood about the team, preferring to only contribute positive things like jokes and “W” pictures. This is a public place, so civility should be the rule. Unfortunately I can’t contain myself when the Cubs are losing so it’s better for me to wail and gnash my teeth in the privacy of my own home.
LOL-I know where you're coming from Cali...
It’s not all that far from the way I tend to approach my “Cubs love”. The big difference for me though is
that only the Cubs seem to bring out that side of me. I think it probably has a lot to do with following them over the last three decades and being let down more times then I care to remember.
Believe it or not, I was once much more of a blindly optimistic cheerleader but living and dying with the team throughout the 80’s and 90’s took a lot of that out of me. And don’t even get me started on game 6 in ’03-maybe teh final end of my innocence as a Cub fan.
I still love the Cubs more than any other sports team and I sleep a little bit better when they win, but I’ve also adopted a certain amount of fatalism as a survival technique. When you’re a Cub fan it’s all about hoping for the best but planning for the worst.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 2, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Same here
I just don’t watch many regular season games from start to finish anymore. After the ‘08 postseason I decided that I’m going to pay more attention to the teams that don’t tear my heart out on a yearly basis. The Bulls and Blackhawks were fun to watch and I always have my Texas Longhorns. I can’t help but follow the Cubs but I’m really in a “wait and see” phase. Until we win a game in the postseason I don’t really see the point in getting too worked up about this team right now.
That's too bad
I’m a Cubs fan, of course, but I still love baseball. The games themselves are great fun to watch. Plus they’re immensely entertaining, win or lose.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 2, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
While we all want the same thing — for the Cubs to win the World Series — those who only want that or nothing, are missing out on so many of the things that make baseball great.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I sort of think those people won't be happy even AFTER the Cubs win the World Series.
The next season’s losses will no doubt be just as awful and unacceptable to them.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 2, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely right.
Well, they won’t be able to enjoy the victory. We will.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, after follwing this team for more than thirty years
…the last thing I could be described as is “all or nothing”. I’ve just learned to temper my enthusiasm a bit over the years. These days I’m more than happy to see the Cubs field a comptetitive team that will stay in the race throughout the summer.
But, I also agree completely, that even w/o the Cubs, baseball is still a beautiful thing and I enjoy watching it all season long. Heck, sometimes I even enjoy watching other teams a little bit more because I can relax a little bit and just enjoy the game for the game.
I would argue that they won't be happen even then
It’s never enough, when we win 1, they’ll be fretting over the 2nd.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 2, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
That is exactly my point.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 2, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
Like a White Sox fan friend said to me after they won in ’05-one just makes you want more.
Although I also think that, if and when the Cubs DO finally win another WS, that so much pressure will be off, that more will follow.
TWSS x2
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 2, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
To SWL's earlier point
After the Cubs win the World Series – heck, even if they win so much as a pennant – I’m done with baseball. They’re really the only reason I have any interest in the game these days. All the other teams I like have won a championship in my lifetime, and I have many fond memories of going to various MLB stadiums, and of course I have my huge collection of MLB-related books that allow me to wallow in nostalgia. So you all better root hard for the Cubs to win the pennant so you won’t have to see me around these parts again!
some fans
cannot be happy unless they are miserable
by lookingdeadred on Jun 3, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree to a point with
Worf above. Please don’t tell me HOW to be a fan. I will not tell you either. I learned a couple things during the 2007 season: Al was right in that it is a long season – and sure enough, ONE TIME in my life I experienced the Cubs coming from pretty far out to overtake a collapsing Brewers team.
That team was better all around than this one. The injuries sustained were shorter periods (and, our best player was available for most of the season). The bullpen improved. Hitting with RISP and close wins became expected.
However, after this loss, I am feeling as if there is a lack of focus and as we see, this bullpen is really bad. Every move Jim Hendry has made in the off-season has bitten him completely in the ass.
The combination of an “owner-less team”, performance of players that must step it up, the salary commitments to a lot of dead wood (Miles, et. al.), and the necessity of playing minor leaguers as starters is just a recipe for failure, in my opinion.
If the team is ten games or more out of it on July 1, I’d advocate a partial fire-sale, and try to work on 2010.
Is this “ledge-jumping”? IS it ledge jumping to watch an inconsistent, poor fundamental-driven team, with a Manager who is asleep during games, and want something better than this? Am I a “bad fan”? I want what all of you do. A World Series title in my lifetime. And, the window cracked open the last couple years is closing once more.
by The E-Man on Jun 2, 2009 10:51 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
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