Jamie Moyer - Class Act - Bleed Cubbie Blue

Jamie Moyer - Class Act

Always liked him; too bad he wasn't able to stick around with the Cubs longer - in either stint.

5 months ago Shanghai Badger 50 comments 3 recs |

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One of my more

vivid Cubs memories from childhood is a no hitter that he took into the 9th Inning against the Phillies in 87.

Boxscore

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Jun 12, 2009 1:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Moyer - 3rd Among Lefties

in wins with 250 since 1984. Only Glavine and Randy Johnson have more southpaw victories in the last 25 years. I think of Moyer as this generation’s Tommy John without the surgery.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jun 12, 2009 2:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

that being said

Glavine and Johnson are sure to be HOF, does Moyer have what it takes to get in as well?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 12, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only with 50 more wins.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 12, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty unlikely

He had very few dominant seasons and only bloomed after about a decade in the MLB. He is durable and consistent but not a HOF
pitcher.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 12, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This Generation's Tommy John Without the Surgery

Tommy John had a long good career in the major leagues winning 288 games, but he’s not a HoF’er. I think of Moyer in the same way.

I know John won more games than contemporaries such as Fergie Jenkins, Catfish Hunter, and Jim Palmer, but John was never as dominant as those pitchers.

I know Moyer has won more games than contemporaries such as Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling. Moyer was never as dominant as those two. I believe Pedro has an excellent shot at the HoF. Schilling is a borderline case, but Moyer really has little chance of making it.

However, I admire what Moyer has done in his career. Wins aren’t close to everything when evaluating a pitcher’s success, but 250 wins in this day and age is impressive.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jun 15, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have always been a big Moyer fan

but I lost a lot of respect for him this year. I long profile in SI I found out he moved his family from PA where they had lived for several years and where he grew up to Florida so that his two older sons could go to top baseball training facility.He has at least two or more daughters and I find the idea of relocating a family so high school age kids can go to a top sports facility way too obsessive. I still think he is good guy but think he should re think his priorities on that.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 12, 2009 3:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not obsessive!!

So what if he wants the best for his boys. If I had the money I would do it too. Lose respect for some one over that?? That’s ridiculous!

I sit at home after the Cubs lose and wanna pound sand but I know I live in a state without that kinda land. I know in my heart Sori isn't a guess hitting hack and that Dero will never be back. Pitching is King, some do say and hopefully Aaron Miles doesn't play in a Cub uniform another day. By October this I know, to the playoffs we are for sure to go. Go Cubbies!!

by cubsluver22 on Jun 12, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except how bout his daughters and the younger boys

You uproot them, relocate them so a couple of kids can fast track to baseball. No different than someone who thinks there kid will be a big movie star and changes the whole family for THAT. Of course since they now live in Florida that gives them much less time with their dad too. Sorry this is a VERY obsessed decision. Let the boys wait till they are at least 18 to be professional baseball players at the expense of the family and the rest of their lives.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 12, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

have you heard or read anything that says his daughters and the younger boys are upset with the move?

if not, then don’t you think you’ve prejudged him a bit?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 12, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are clearly a close and loving family

but to uproot 4 other kids from their home near their father so that two boys can go to a special baseball camp is in my opinion obsessive and disruptive. Baseball is not tennis or gymnastics, however talented ( and I don’t get the impression they are the next Lincecum) talented these boys may be, is it worth moving your ENTIRE family so they get better baseball instruction in your teens. If Dad were not an MLB player would they even consider it ? I really like Moyer and have followed his career closely. I actually had heated argument with friend when Moyer vetoed a trade from Seattle to Texas because he did not want to disrupt his family for what was likely a short term move even if the Mariners where out of it and Texas was in a pennant race. My friend said it showed Moyer “did not really want to win” and I thought he had earned the right to put his family first. I am sure he believes he is doing the right thing and giving his sons some extra help but to have an entire family to move so that teenagers can pursue a career as professional athlete like dad shows a decided lack of perspective as well as balance regarding the other kids.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 6:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, but without further context or evidence...

…it would appear you’re imposing your own moral and/or familial standards on the Moyers, and thus are judging him/them unfairly and rather harshly IMO.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with ballhawk.

Unless you personally know the Moyers and their family situation, you (Jessica) have no right to judge their decisions for their children.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 13, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same here

How do any of us know what family discussions took place? Maybe the other four children strongly encouraged it.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know the Moyers at all

and I again have no doubt they are close family and family’s move for all sorts of reasons but nearly always because a parent has a job somewhere else or financial issues. This family uprooted so two young teenage boys could spend the majority of their time to be better baseball players. Yes I am playing pop psychologist
but if daddy were not an professional baseball player such a move would be unimaginable. To leave your home ( his family still lived there. and I believe his wife had family in PA as well) to encourage kids to be professional athletes ( with a very high percentage that they never will be) at the expense of other younger children in the family is in my OPINION obsessive. If a family on your block that you did not really know decided to move to Los Angeles because one of their five kids was told he/she might have a career in show business I expect you would think this was not a very good idea for the whole family but because Moyer is clearly a nice family guy it is OK to do the same for kids to be professional ball players ?

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for proving my (our) point

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

Again, Jessica doesn’t seem to understand that this family probably had long discussions about doing this involving all their kids before they did it.

Without personal knowledge of these individuals, it is neither possible nor correct to judge their actions.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We make judgements on people we don't know all the time

I have followed Moyer very closely over the years and always been impressed. We will all agree to disagree on this. The truth is I believe there is a lot sexism and wanting to project yourself on your kids in this decision to relocate so the sons could play better baseball. I don’t know the family at all but I strongly doubt they would relocate to New York if one of the daughters was a talented dancer and wanted to go to study at a great dance academy. Uprooting a family so one or more child with a supposed gift is a pretty serious thing. With all due respect the Moyer sons appear to be talented but not exactly prodigies. If dad were not major league pitcher I seriously doubt even if they could easily afford it they would up and move away from dad and extended family to pursue this. I don’t think the young Moyer children are exactly in a position an informed decision on if they want to leave and follow their brothers to Florida. I don’t think it is generally healthy for kids THIS young to so much of their time focused on a sport especially one in which you don’t have to do this. How many current major league players were uprooted so they could spend the majority of their high school years at special baseball academy ? How many of their families moved to achieve this.
Obviously we are never going to agree on this but I don’t think that because I don’t know what the Moyer family supposedly discussed with their younger children I am not entitled to strong opinion on this.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are entitled to your opinion.

However, “following” Moyer isn’t even close to knowing what goes on inside his home. You really have no right to make this sort of judgment about them when you do not know what discussions went on in private among Moyer, his wife and children.

It’s their business, period.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what Ryan Leaf's dad said to him either

but I have an opinion. No I am not comparing the Moyers to Leaf but you can tell I am outraged that parents would uproot a large family to cater to the sports talents of two boys who want to follow in dad’s footsteps. I don’t think you can expect the other 5 Moyer kids to have really made an informed decision on this. I have a lot of respect for Moyer and what he and his wife have done OFF the field but I think this was a terribly misguided and yes sexist
move on their part.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow... just wow...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow indeed.

Jamie Moyer = Ryan Leaf? That’s a stretch.

Jessica, you are a friend of mine. But on this one, you’re just plain wrong.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 13, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said I was not comparing him to Leaf

but I did use it as a way of rebutting that just because we don’t personally know what someone said inside a family we can not have an opinion on it. This is hitting a dead end of course but I absolutely believe the Moyers have been unfair to their five other children to uproot them so two can be better at a sport. Also per above I do not believe they would have done this if one of their daughters had some talent in the arts that might be better taught in New York. I am weary of ANY family that would relocate so that a child or two could spend more time at athletics. The Moyers are far better equipped financially ( and that was NOT meant as an insult per below) and emotionally than most families to do this sort of thing but I don’t think that makes it any less short sighted and selfish.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last thought for me on this - devil's advocate

You don’t KNOW that they wouldn’t have moved for one of the daughters. In fact, we don’t know that there isn’t something for them where they moved to, as well.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

One of the Craziest opinions I think I may have eevr heard here.

by cubsluver22 on Jun 14, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get one other thing that ballhawk and Al didn't mention

You seem to be begrudging them of the fact that they can afford to do it. Maybe I’m off base there, but you’ve mentioned it more than once. If so, why?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

having known

having known families with talented daughters who have done this exact same thing…

One example, though not as well known, is that of the Harkleroads, whose daughter Ashley has been on the pro tennis circuit off and on for years now. I knew them when they relocated from Flinstone GA to Florida so that their daughter could go have the top tennis training.

In fact, there are so many examples of parents whose kids are unusually gifted that have done similar things, both boys and girls.

by Perico on Jun 17, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am WELL aware of that ,which was part of my point

The Moyer boys appear to be pretty good players but not prodigies ( which are in any case very rare at that age in baseball) or dramatically more talented than thousands and thousands of kids their age. Baseball unlike tennis or gymnastics is not a sport where young kids relocate and devote so much of their time to the sport. This is extremely unusual and I have actually never heard of a family relocating so kids could play baseball at higher level in HS. I don’t think it is coincidence that dad is major league baseball player and his sons would like to be like him and vice versa. I don’t think there is any venal intent but my point was that I don’t believe the Moyers would have done this if one of the daughters wanted to be a dancer and would get better instruction in New York and I think they are emphasizing the sons baseball playing however well intended at the expense of the family as a whole.

Sorry to keep this going but I just wanted to make that part clear.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 17, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so in addition to being bad parents, you believe the Moyers to be sexist as well?

Forgive me if my conclusion comes across as being a bit harsh, but clearly you don’t like the idea of them uprooting their entire family. And you’ve also made quite clear that while they did this for their sons, you don’t think they would have done this for their daughters.

All this without knowing any of the family members and/or being privy to any family discussions that went on prior to this move.

It’s fine if you don’t agree with their actions in a general sense and obviously it sounds like something you wouldn’t do yourself. But you’re getting pretty specific in some of your judgments and interpretations of their actions, and I believe that to be baseless and unwarranted.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 17, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does this mean I don't get a ball ?

Yes this is how I feel though.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 18, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well online Doggie doesn't get a ball... ;-)

…but real-life Jessica will if she stops by the corner this weekend. Or yells down from Al’s Aerie during the game.

Actually this is probably a good lesson for all of BCB. Clearly Doggie and I are at significant odds on this issue and based solely on this discussion, I don’t think we’d be exchanging Christmas/Hanukkah cards any time soon. But having met her in real life, I get along with her just fine (and I assume her me).

So next time you find yourself pounding the keyboard with much weeping and gnashing of teeth, remember it’s a real person on the other end, and who knows – someday you might meet at Wrigley.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 18, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

Jessica will be sitting with us tomorrow.

You can certainly yell upwards if you want…

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 18, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 18, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lmao

Her opinion is a joke and wrong on many levels but hey I respect her for standing up for her opinion.

by cubsluver22 on Jun 18, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, I don't know about it being a joke, but obviously I agree with the wrongness part.

I just didn’t want her to get the last word in… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 18, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

word

Will you be around Sunday ? I will be in bleachers then as well and it is my birthday so would be fun to drop by then but if not I can come by tomorrow.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 18, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but just for BP

got to do the dad’’s day thing with the father-in-law so I won’t be sticking around for game. Stop by before you head in to the bleachers and I should be around.

word.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 19, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to get there early anyway

Mean Al says that since I have a total of six ( me, my mom, friends etc) I have to come early and save seats. What time is BP ? Do they always have BP on Sunday ? Could try to catch you today.

“Words, words, words, I’m so sick of words , first from him now from you. Is that all you blighters can do ?

Eliza in the song “SHOW ME” from MY FAIR LADY.

Just popped in my head. I love classic show tunes.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 19, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not always on Sunday but lately they've had it.

Dusty almost never did, but Lou’s probably been a little over 50/50. If the Cubs don’t hit, the visitors almost always do anyway.

It doesn’t look good for BP today – it’s pouring out now. But one way or another, I’m sure I’ll see you up there sometime this weekend. When you’re bored, i.e. when Miles is up, turn around and put your glove on…

And speaking of classic show tunes…

Wave your hands in the air
Like you don’t care, glide by
The People as they start to look and stare.
Do you dance, do your dance quick
Mama, come on baby, tell me what’s
The Word, ah – word up,

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 19, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Mean Al"?

You’ve got six people coming — help out!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 19, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

She could have called you worse

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just giving you a hard time

Down to 5 now. My nephew is deserting me, his dad the Cardinal fan got a skybox so he is dumping Aunt Jessica on her birthday though I will see him for breakfast.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 19, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Karen Phelps Moyer is from the Chicago area

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

people move

for all sorts of reasons. If I moved across the state for a job, would that be more valid?

And PLENTY of people have moved to LA because they thought their kids could be actors.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 14, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok this is getting nowhere

but if a FAMILY up and moves to LA to give a kid a remote chance of being a professional actor I would feel EXACTLY the same. So two boys can play baseball more and presumably better, a family leaves it’s home and will among other things see a lot less of dad in this case. I find the single minded pursuit by a family of a teen/ pre teen’s ambition to the disruption of the rest of the family just plain stupid. What are the odds the family would do this if dad were NOT a professional player himself ? I suspect if this were Clemens relocating the 5 K kids when he was still playing in Texas to Florida to play baseball folks would think differently. I believe it is just wrong to disrupt an entire family so young kids can be better athletes. You are damn right that I will never know if they would have done this if one of the daughters wanted to study dance in New York but I would bet my season tickets on it and I don’t take them lightly. My last word since I am clearly a nut job.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 14, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's my last word, and...

… I know this sounds like a broken record, since I have said it here many times.

Since none of us knows Jamie Moyer and his family personally, we cannot make that judgment. He has been in professional sports for over 25 years; his daughter is from a sports family; I’m sure they are devoted parents and weighed all the factors carefully.

I suspect if you made that bet, you’d lose your season tickets.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

geez

You’d think from the poster that the life of a professional baseball player, not to mention a journeyman pitcher, is a 9 to 5 job.

by Perico on Jun 17, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny Story

guy on my softball team played minor league ball with Moyer (yes, he’s that old and we are that old – eek!) and told a story about charting pitches for him in a session. Moyer’s fastball was always around 88/87 on the gun and he bribed this guy to note it at 92/91 on the logsheet. Granted, it was the minor leagues and not much of a bribe, but the point is that Moyer’s been successful as a pitcher for far less than overpowering stuff.

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs