Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before: Cubs Bats Impotent In 2-0 Loss To Twins
by Al Yellon on Jun 13, 2009 4:04 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintInstead of a simple recounting of today's game, I'm going to start this recap with some information from Deep Goat.
Word is that there may be some "changes" as soon as tomorrow. I don't know the nature of the "changes" -- could be anything from trades to minor league/major league roster moves to changes in the coaching staff (if it were up to my friend Phil, he'd fire Gerald Perry, but I don't think that's going to happen; he said "Book it", but remember he also said "Book it" to Alfonso Soriano starting at 2B today and that didn't happen).
Speculate away; I only have the word that "changes" are coming.
Whatever they do, I hope it doesn't involve the pitching staff, because today the staff was again outstanding. Rich Harden returned from the DL and really made only one significant mistake, the pitch that Jason Kubel deposited on Sheffield (and yes, this time I'm sure it made the street, confirmed by ballhawk). Otherwise three dinky little singles resulted in the Twins' other run in a 2-0 Cubs shutout loss to Minnesota, their fourth loss in a row and the fifth time they have been shut out this year.
The bullpen also kept the game close; Jose Ascanio, Sean Marshall (why is Marshall being used in a close game when he could be useful in extra innings?) and Kevin Gregg threw three innings of hitless ball, but the Twins' pitchers matched it. The Cubs made Anthony Swarzak look like Greg Maddux today; he had Cub hitters off-balance all day, getting four called strikeouts (out of six total K's) and otherwise getting them to beat the ball into the ground. Matt Guerrier and Joe Nathan finished up; when Derrek Lee's line drive went off Joe Crede's glove in the last of the ninth, I thought, "At last, a break and a bit of luck!", but despite having the tying run in scoring position with one out, Kosuke Fukudome and Ryan Theriot couldn't bring the runners home.
Kosuke Fukudome. Let's talk about Dome, who is having exactly the same season he had last year -- two good months and then falling off the table. After today's horrendous performance -- 0-for-4 with two strikeouts, including nearly screwing himself into the ground in the 9th inning vs. Nathan -- he is hitting .152/.282/.212 in June. Yes, that's not a misprint -- that's a .212 slugging percentage. At this point Fukudome's best position is probably "bench"; send Reed Johnson out there and let him play CF for a week or so. Alfonso Soriano, down to .233 and hitting nearly as poorly as Fukudome this month (.174/.269/.370), needs a day off. I'd suggest giving him tomorrow off and starting Micah Hoffpauir in LF; after tomorrow the Cubs don't play till Tuesday night, which would give Soriano three full days to rest.
In his postgame remarks Lou seemed like his brain was waterlogged from the moderate rain that delayed the start of today's game by 32 minutes. His answers to the usual questions ranged from, "What do you want me to do?" to "I don't want to talk about that." Not exactly what we've come to expect from the guy who used to snap at reporters, "You saw the damn game!" Lou's losing it and the whole team is suffering, partly as a result. After today's pitching performance the team ERA sits at 3.87, still fourth in the NL but just behind the Reds at 3.85. Keep that up and many games will be won.
Finally, at this writing the Brewers are losing to the White Sox 6-0; if that holds up the Cubs remain only 3.5 games behind (two in the loss column). It's still anyone's division. Keep the faith.
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I also have
a lot of frustration… that’s not nothing
"This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outta here." --Michael Scott
Ugh
I’ll be interested in what the changes are going to be, but I fear it may be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I hope that Piniella is at least considering sitting Soriano for a couple of days.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions
How about for a long while?
You can’t continue to play with hitters that refuse to change their approach. Ever.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I'm trying to keep the faith...
But it’s just so hard with this offense. I hope Deep Goat is right and there are some changes made, at this point something has to be done. And what the hell is it about June that sends Dome spiraling (pun intended) into suckville?
Someday we'll go all the way...
Dome
is just not that good, and we are stuck with him. What a shame.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
He's shown the...
Skills and tools to be a good player for two months, could it be a mental thing that causes him to falter? I just don’t get it.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
the ump today
seemed to have a bizarre strikezone. Santo said that Dome was “jittery” at the plate, and looked like he was “trying to find himself”. He’s not keeping his shoulder down long enough.
I say we fly his hitting coach back here now, and not wait till July.
I think he gets nervous just like any other player does when the team as a whole isn’t hitting well, and he presses. It’s no different than anyone else, he’s just got a distinctive swing when he does it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
he's been our best hitter this season....
i understand we’re judging the recent time more harshly than the total season because of last year’s fall-off but Dome really is focusing on the wrong point of the equation
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Dome
11 for 66 since May 30th, best hitter. I guess you could say that, because the team has been so horrible. Guess you can pick someone, but Dome looks like he will fall into the same situation like last year. He looks like a 10Million liability to me.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
DLee has had a good May and June
And Soto believe it or not had solid hitting May. Not in June…
Judging Fukudome is tricky...
He had an awesome April and a pretty productive May. But he has slumped terribly in June. The question is whether this is a repeat of last year, or just a slump. But are very real possibilities.
I don't think he's good after consecutive days off
He slumped after Johnson started for like 5 days I feel like.
I agree with this...
I had a bad feeling he would cool down after that.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
apparently he's slumped too
since his Japanese hitting coach returned to the island a couple of weeks. Least that’s what I’ve heard, and his form certainly suffered for it.
with his contract
he should be able to pay to keep the hitting coach here all season
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I wish I could Al
WHY would Lou/Hendry change 40% of a 97 win team, sign a player like Bradley (problems), NOT re-sign Wood and DeRosa, etc……
a lot of us knew at the time before it became hindsight
It’s just been a given..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
Maybe they made changes
because they won 0 games in the postseason?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree
A lot of us said this at the beginning of the season.
wccubfan
And a lot of good
that 97-win team did last postseason, did it?
Most of the key players from that team are on this one. Lack of Wood and the beloved almighty one aren’t why this team is scuffling.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
DeRosa would help.
Now, I know this is going to start off a firestorm of you calling me a “DeRomantic”, but the fact is, having him at 2B right now instead of Scales/Miles/the beer vendor, or at 3B with Fontenot at 2B, would be far better than what we’ve had since Ramirez went down.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It wouldn't make much of a difference
when virtually everbody else is scuffling, Al.
That series against the Indians next weekend is going to be unbearable.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Who's to say whether one guy might not have made a difference?
All I’m saying is that those of us who would like DeRosa back are NOT saying that for sentimental reasons.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If the one guy is A-Rod, that's one thing
I don’t think DeRo is going to be confused with A-Rod anytime soon. Except, perhaps, in the minds of some delusional fans.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
No one's called him
“the best ever” at least not that I’ve seen…
All everyone seems to be saying is “Man, that deal looks bad right now”.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I don't think anyone is saying that.
All we’re saying is that a guy with his versatility could have helped this team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And if everybody was playing according to specs,
even with Ramirez out, the point would be moot.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure.
But they’re not, which is why changes are likely coming.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'll be interested to see what (if any) moves are made...
and what impact said moves will have. I have trouble seeing much that can be added or subtracted to make a real difference.
Perhaps some tweaking of the bullpen? Benching Fukudome for a bit? I can’t see Piniella actually moving Soriano back to the infield.
But ultimately, it comes down to the guys on the field producing. In April, Soriano, Ramirez and Fukudome were hitting but nobody else. In May, Lee, Theriot and Fukudome were hitting. In June, it seems to be just Lee (with occasional signs of life from Soto and Fontenot).
i hope
miles is gone
patton is gone
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just not sure either move will make a big difference...
Nobody within the organization is going to wildly improve the team’s fortunes in place of those guys.
Perhaps if Fox was called up and somehow proved he could play 3B, it could have an impact. But the options just seem limited.
seriously?
patton is the reason we can’t score?
let’s replace him with a really expensive guy that used to be kinda good.
that’s how we ended up with miles.
if you want to dl patton until one of the other pitchers gets hurt, that isn’t foolish. but it would be really shortsighted to jettison a future cheap arm just ’cuz we only have two guys that can hit.
Patton may not be the problem with the offense
but he’s taking up a roster spot that another hitter could be using(Fox) and Lou has shown time and time again that he doesn’t trust him and will only put him in if he absolutely have to. This team isn’t good enough to play with 24 guys
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
nor is it good enough to win
with 26 or
27 if it can’t hit
which is why we need 13 pitchers less than we do 13 hitters
thus Patton is expendable
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Please tell me where this doesn't fit in the line up?
Mark DeRosa 60 238 41 66 11 0 10 107 42 24 50 0 1 .277 .348 .450 .798
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
KC, not you, too
It’s like I’ve walked into a scene from “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't you see what's happened?
You’ve railed on this so much that now people are trying to explain to you how his output would help the Cubs’ offense.
Honestly, you really would be better off just letting this drop.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
NBF - it's called "sunk cost". The trade is history.
Forget for a moment the trade ever happened. Focus instead on the present where the Cubs offense is in triage, and 3B is probably its biggest gaping wound. If you wanted to heal that wound, do you not see that Mark DeRosa fills the bill very well? He plays the position, his numbers are decent, he has a good history with the club (i.e. not going to be a clubhouse cancer) and Indians are going nowhere. Oh, and once ARam comes back, DeRosa has the versatility to contribute elsewhere.
On paper it makes pretty good sense, so why wouldn’t it make sense to pursue it further? There’s no romance here, just common sense. What part of that don’t you get?
Now I would readily agree that there are other possible answers out there. So if you just can’t stomach the thought of DeRosa back in a Cubs uniform, then instead of harping on your so-called DeRomantics (which btw, I wish you would identify. Your recent posts have taken on a KOW-like “some people say” tendency. So far I have only seen logical posts from Al, Allie, Southern, Dartmouth, CubsBullsBears, Shanghai, KC and myself to name several), howsabout offering up some other solutions?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 14, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's the greatest player on earth
and will make everything better in Cubbieland. I have no doubt. You’ve all convinced me.
What a pathetic waste of time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, Ahab
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
This franchise
needs a wake-up call. For years the front office has tried to fill their holes with expensive FAs, with not much success at all. Yet, they keep on truckin’ along with the same philosophy that has failed them season after season. How about emulating franshises that have won by building from within? It doesn’t matter anyway, cause they have guys like Bradley, Sori, Lee, and Fukudome bogging down their salary structure. Way to have some foresight Jim!!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
It might happen if/when the ownership situation is resolved
Depending on how emboldened the new owner feels, the team of Kenney/Hendry/Piniella could be swept out and replaced by a whole new regime that would have the courage and (hopefully) the intelligence to undertake a proper rebuilding. Which I wouldn’t necessarily mind this because I think a younger, fresher presence in charge of things is ultimately needed.
The reliance on veteran FAs started with Soriano. Keep in mind that it happened at a time when the Cubs were seeking instant credibility after years of Andy MacPhail’s super-conservative approach. And because John McDonough was intent on righting the ship as quick as possible, he elected to authorize spending on free agents instead of trading for prospects and gradually improving the team for the long-term.
Unfortunately those signings have come with downsides. Soriano is a streaky hitter and an interesting fielder. Lee’s extension included an NTC. Dome is again having problem sustaining success past the month of May. Bradley has a history of injuries and anger issues. Not to mention the lengthy years and salary bumps of the other contracts on the roster.
Without much success?!?!
Playoffs two years in a row for the first time since forever.
97 wins and the best offense in the National League last year.
That is way more success than I am used to with the Cubs.
Al, this was a painful game.
I don’t care how much we are paying players, if they aren’t performing, they need to sit or go to the minors. Sending Fox and Scales down after the way they have performed is ludicrous. I’m not sure if Lou’s post-game give-up is the chicken or the egg. The players appear lackluster and Bradley’s shrugging off of his multiple boneheaded plays yesterday is offensive, and should offend any true Cubs fan. I am frustrated. Will be there next Saturday and Sunday and am hoping these guys find a little fire by then.
On the bright side, I could not be more admiring of the pitching staff, which has stepped up and offered consistency when it would be possible to feel down. Also, Pat Hughes gave your By the Numbers book a shout-out, naming you and the other authors and recommending that people buy it.
Let's kidnap
every fan who keeps pining for them instead. And send them far, far away.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
lets send away fans
who insist nothing is wrong and can’t understand team chemistry
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I have some bad news for you
You are about the only one here who feels this way. 10,000 posts from you saying otherwise is not going to change anyone’s opinion. Dero would be an upgrade over what we have now. The end. Maybe it wouldn’t make the team win the division but it would be a better team than currently constructed. Especially when Aram gets back.
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think dude has ever debated that DeRo is better than our current 2B options...
… i think he’s taking issue with the lamenting whats done, or the idea that we should get him back when there has been no indication that either side is actually interested in that.
I understand the sentiment. He’s like the hot girlfriend we dumped for an even HOTTER girl, but the hotter girl turned out to be a jerk and the original decided to cut her hair, work out twice as hard and hit 11 points over the league average at her position. Whoops.
The whole “bring him back” thing is a bit suspect to me, though. Do we know he’d WANT to come back after we dumped him (yes, i’m seriously inquiring if there is knowledge of the terms he left on)? What would we have to give up to get him, being that his stats are ALL up over last season at this point? Its all very abstract and remote.
Until there is some indication we could actually get him back, its much more productive to consider the problems the players who are actually on our roster are having. There is a happy place between the “DeRomantics” and NBF’s position.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
There has actually...
… been some internal discussion at the Cubs about bringing him back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
one can only hope that is true..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
It's not about bringing him back...
MORON AKA Jim Hendry…..didn’t want to deal with “contract year” issues…….what he failed to realize is … PLAY IT OUT……. “good players” AKA “winners” …like to show off in their contract years……… it’s a problem this years Cubs need…..
It was a no lose for MORON……KEEP DeRosa…..he has a good year…and hes too expensive …let him go….. he has a “OK” year….oh well … don’t resign him…..
Meanwhile….point me out some Cubs w/ stats like this:
Mark DeRosa 60 238 41 66 11 0 10 107 42 24 50 0 1 .277 .348 .450 .798
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
Calling someone a derogatory name doesn't help your argument.
In fact, you lose credibility by calling someone names instead of using facts to make an argument.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 14, 2009 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Jim....
The days of NCAA baseball at creighton are over….
And if thts not how you feel….please quit NOW
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
I have no idea what you're talking about.
What does the state of Creighton baseball have to do with the 2009 Cubs, Jim Hendry or Mark DeRosa?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 14, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions
....
1. Moron is “vaguely” a derogotory term.
2. My dissatisfaction of Mr. Hendry’s moves diddn’t magicaly appear in my head yesterday.
3. Jim Hendry was Creightons AD just b4 becomming McFail’s Asst. w/ the Cubs…..
It’s sorta u know…an underhanded insult that he’s in kinda over his head………
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
I guess what I was trying to say
is that he isn’t going to change anyone’s mind no matter how many times he tells us to quit thinking that way.
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe so...
… but you clearly aren’t gonna convince NBF to stop beating the drum on the other side. And you both have some valid points. So… agree to disagree?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of the plug...
… did anyone here record the game? If so, could you clip out the audio and send me a .mp3 clip of it? Kasey is going to do that, but he’s out of town this week, and I’d love to have it now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
lmao
don’t you hate when that happens?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
So many spots for a TWSS
So little time
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Hey, Clutch 16: Where did you find that Charlie Root quote. I’ve never seen it before, but I love it!
I think I picked that particular quote off the 'net somewhere
However, Root always disputed the story of the called shot, and said the same thing in different ways. The one which Wikipedia documents here from “Root for the Cubs” goes:
“Ruth did not point at the fence before he swung. If he had made a gesture like that, well, anybody who knows me knows that Ruth would have ended up on his ass. The legend didn’t get started until later.”
Ruth said, variously, that he did or did not call the shot. Root (and many historians) believed that the gesture was intended for the Cubs bench, who had been razzing him all game long. Ruth gave as good as he got, so he was yapping right back, probably with an added bat motion.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
"Root For The Cubs" is an excellent read
After reading Al’s synopsis here on BCB I bought a copy and took it with me on vacation last month. Very entertaining and insightful! It’s a look back at the 1929 team with Charlie Root’s season as the main arc of the book.
Charlie Root’s daughter, Della Root Arnold, contributed lots of photos and anecdotes about her parents. It was as much fun to read about Dorothy Root (Charlie’s wife) as Charlie – she was quite the little spitfire.
Hard to say what was more fun today
Following the game (not broadcast here of course) on the computer or a crazy fight between my neighbors in which the police came twice in one hour and I think they are back.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
The results of the fight
were probably unpredictable. Regrettably, the game was never in doubt.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
This is where I make a bad joke
about your nieghbors having more punch than the Cub bats…
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jun 13, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Count it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Changes?
What can you do when your whole lineup besides Lee is not hitting. There is no one at AAA that can help this team. Trades? who? Anyone want Dome’s contract? How about Miles? 5 years on Soriano’s contract, anyone? Please someone take Milton, uh, no thanks.
Call me pessimistic at this point, but I can not see this team turning it around offensively.
You get rid of Blanco, Edmonds, Wood, DeRosa and add Gathright, Bako, Miles, and Bradley, and Gregg this is what it is. Granted payroll had to be shaved, but to add these pieces was poorly put to together.
Hey the players have to get it done, but for 25 games now this offense has been horrible. I can see a week or 10 games of this but a month?
To me Lou needs to go, unfortunately that is not going to happen. This team is so tight, it is not funny, change is needed in leadership.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Payroll actually increased.
We were one of only 3 teams, I believe, that increased our payroll.
It pains me to say, but I’m starting to realize that I agree with your comment regarding Lou. Some of his moves lately have been bizarre. He just doesn’t seem into it.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
All-star break
If Lou hasn’t turned this losing culture around by then, he should certainly be fired. It’s pretty sad that the Cubs won’t be able to trade anyone at the deadline; all their players that are underperforming have unmovable contracts. So much for having a backup plan Lou and Jim!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Again
If not having Blanco, Edmonds, Wood and DeRosa are the reason this team is in the tank, it wasn’t that good in the first place.
I realize tough times cause emotional reactions rather than rational ones, but pull it together.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Forget about Blanco, Edmonds & Wood for a moment.
This has nothing to do with “emotional reactions” and everything to do with the fact that Mark DeRosa is a useful, versatile baseball player who produces on the field.
I would suggest that it is YOU who is having the “emotional reaction” with your knee-jerk posts every time someone mentions his name.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Jun 13, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, Al,
when his name is mentioned almost every day, almost non-stop, that’s kind of what happens.
I’m sorry if you’re greatly offended by my reaction to it, but I’d say the constant bedwetting about him is misguided and bordering on childish. Appropriate, I guess, for the most neurotic fan base in professional sports.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
As I said above...
… I think you mischaracterize the desire of some of us to have DeRosa. It has nothing to do with sentiment and everything to do with production.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Perhaps your view is that way, Al,
but I’d suggest a lot of people’s isn’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I dunno.
What say the rest of you who want DeRosa back?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
production and flexibility
kerry was about sentimentality (mostly)
derosa was about the production and the return via trade (which was AWFUL for a guy going to be Type A)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with this.
Kevin Gregg has actually done a decent job, especially recently.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Initially it was probably sentiment...
But now with no backup 3rd baseman, and lack of versatility, we need what he can provide… which is a solid bat and above-average defense at a number of positions.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I want him back
I thought it was a dumb trade the day it happened. His flexibility and production has not been replaced by any stretch of the imagination.
Kerry was my favorite Cub, so I have to be honest that a portion of my dislike of the trade was emotional. But, I also thought that they didn’t upgrade by the trade. Sure, he has a history of injury, but I felt that he had turned the corner and was a reliable pitcher.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
GOTTA AGREE WITH BIG JOHN........
I think both Wood and DeRo were a loss for this ball club…..Only History will so show us how much,,,,,This club has to get back on it’s feet…..Lou has a mess on his hannd…..
Definitely versatility and production...
Granted, I don’t think he’d be a savior. But he’d bump Fontenot back to 2B and cover up that sub-.600 OPS from 2B this year.
I’d really take any capable-hitting 3B. DeRosa just happens to be an obvious example because he was here last year.
Even without the greatest Cub ever,
this team still should be much better than it’s played.
DeRosa had a career year, is 34-35 years old and not likely to replicate those numbers. I don’t blame Hendry for trading him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
he's replicating them right now
once you adjust for league
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
"Not likely"
What about that is difficult to understand? And will he keep it up?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
he posted
practically the same numbers for 3 years running with improving peripherals, what wasn’t likely about it?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
He's not getting any younger,
for one thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
it was a 1 year deal
not 3 or 4… expecting his production to be similar for 1 year was actually quite likely
it would have been unlikely for him to just fall off the table like you seem to suggest
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And
He would make virtually NO difference on the current team. Unless he has some secret potion that will make six-seven other guys swing the bats better.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
actually, he might
Clearly something is lacking in the team clubhouse. I’m not saying DeRosa would instantly turn six-seven guys into Silver Sluggers, but he (or someone like him) could very well be the spark that could jumpstart 2 or 3 of the underachievers.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I was OK with the DeRo move in the offseason
For the reasons you cite — he is getting old, and the Cubs needed to free some salary. However much I liked him — and despite the real value of a multi-position, good-hitting player like DeRo — it is not insane to unload an aging, expensive player after a career year.
That said, dropping a decent bat into the weak spots of this lineup — 3B or 2B — might have a ‘relaxation effect’ that could really change things. Team hitting is weird, with as much to do with psychology as technique, and right now our team sphincters are locked-up. DeRo — or any other guy or two that could come here and produce a few hits — could change the mindset. (And that’s why we could not afford to send down Fox, one of the few working bats.)
Losing ARam was far bigger than ARam’s bat alone for similar reasons in that it took a first-class bat out of a borderline set of hitters; The hitting then collapsed. But something has to change, or we will hit a lot worse that we should for the whole year.
What made no sense to me about it was
The players they got back weren’t going to help the Cubs win now. It was an attempt to stock the farm system, which is only necessary because they obviously don’t know how to build it from within.
Pretty unusual for a team with championship aspirations to make a trade for the future.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions
So damned if you do,
damned if you don’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't either
I wish we’d gotten more for him, but I understood and didn’t hate the trade.
But right now, with everyone playing so poorly, the holes DeRosa could be filling look more glaring than they would be everyone were playing up to their career numbers.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
You seem to be the only one saying "Greatest Cub Ever"
Perhaps you’re the DeRomantic?
Nope
The way people talk about him, here and elsewhere, the name fits perfectly.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
once again
presented evidence above that it was about production (from multiple users) and you choose to ignore it
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Get over it
Trading him was not a bad idea, and he isn’t coming back.
Like I said, next weekend’s games are going to be unbearable, with all the gnashing of teeth and wailing about DeRo the Hero.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
get over what?
you’re the one being proven incorrect with your exaggeration and refusing to let go
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Refusing to let it go?
A bunch of pots are calling the kettle black, evidently.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
your the one who keeps bringing him up
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
What will you say if he is back on the team this year?
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, for one thing,
I’ll be stunned.
Of course, if he is, I hope he does well. But I suspect you and many others would be disappointed.
I’m pretty sure this fervor would not take place among any other fan base in baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't be so sure about that.
In a similar situation, I’m guessing a lot of teams’ fans would like to have a productive player, dumped for no apparently good reason, back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I must say
I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. Pretty pathetic.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
then why don't you go cheer....
for another team!!!!
Thank You.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 13, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you have to love DeRosa
or find another team?
I think I’ll appreciate how DeRosa played for the Cubs while still focusing on the current club, thanks.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say a word about DeRo!
I think the pressure is getting to ya.
Maybe take a break from this board for a few days…er, I mean weeks.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 13, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
you should take a permanent one.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm just looking for....
BETTER than the 13th best offense in th NL
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
You wildy misrepresent people's views on DeRosa...
I’m sorry that you can’t seem to grasp the real reason people would prefer DeRosa (or some other capable hitting utility option).
Then let's hear about
some of those other options, shall we?
By and large, in the general Cubs fan community, I don’t think I"m misrepresenting a thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe the "general cub fan community"
IS acting the way you’re thinking
but those HERE aren’t. Taking their heads off doesn’t make sense.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I'm not taking their heads off
It’s just a waste of energy at this point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently, you are...
based on the discussion in this thread.
We’ve gone through this before. I’m not in the mood to repeat the same thing over again. You’re a broken record.
As are you
So quit replying to my posts. Here and elsewhere.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll keep replying to whom I choose...
I’m not the one belittling other people’s posts.
You're the one
Who sees fit to reply to anyone who expresses any wish for having back a good hitting 2B/3B by calling them illogical and suggesting that it doesn’t make a difference to the team because everyone else is sucking. How can you say that? You can’t tell me that sending DeRo up there instead of Fuk tonight might not have resulted in a tie game or at least a run. You can’t say that because you, just like the rest of us, have no idea what would happen in that situation. We’re basing our lamentations on that trade on the fact that DeRo’s stats (this year and last) are above and beyond our current 2B options… yet, you ignore this evidence and assume we’re all just crazy emotional fans who don’t understand baseball.
And here comes
the romanticism. Right on cue.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I do not think that word means
what you think it does.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Allie, I think the definition of it
is extremely apropos.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Bruce
Don’t let the one-man debunking of DeRosa dictate all your posts. You have many other good things to say and lots of other perspectives to share. Be the bigger guy and let it go.
Good advice, CaliCub
It’s just been going on since Opening Day, and I should just let them rant. I’ll try to restrain myself form now on.
I guess this means I won’t be joining the crowd of Cubs fans at O’Hare next Thursday night to welcome the Indians’ plane and the return of their hero.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
And thank you
for your kind words.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You're off base here
I agree with a lot of what you say, but you’re taking this to a far more ridiculous extreme than what you are accusing others of doing.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, the subject
keeps coming up, over and over agian.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
So, ignore it then.
You’ve got some kind of misplaced frustration over this. No one is saying he was the greatest Cub ever, just that he would have helped. Do you really think that’s not true?
I agree that he’s not coming back. I agree that they’ve got what they’ve got. But, I’d rather hear, “we should have kept DeRosa” than “Crap, the season’s over.”
You’d feel better if you dropped the crusade. And I think what’s going to happen, unfortunately, is people are going to start to miss valid points that you have because of the tone that you’re taking lately regarding this issue.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm one of the few
Who also believe that having Derosa wouldn’t amount to much with the way this team hits. But yes its a dead horse and we are in the minority.
Your reply to my
post was actually the thing that was right on cue. Actually, I think it might be a record for you. 60 seconds flat.
Should have never left...
I’m not into man crushes. I personally just felt that the Cubs were basically paying double for that production by signing Milton Bradley instead, just to say the team was more left-handed.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
for me it's production
he’s a likable guy, to be sure, but I’m with you, Al, on the versatility front.
It wasn't DeRosa per se, it was the lack of a formidable replacement
Had the Cubs signed Orlando Hudson or dealt for The Oriole That Must Not Be Named, they’d be better off than with the dynamic duo of Miles and Scales. Or if a more creative means of payroll management were used, then the Greatest Cub Ever could have stayed and helped keep things afloat in the wake of the ARam injury.
DeRosa added valuable diversity
at almost every position. The additions of Miles and Hill have proven to be terrible decisions. We ended up moving a platoon 2B to full time 3B and caused both 3B and 2B to be subprime. We have the same problem with Fukudome and only now is Bradley seeming to strike the ball. DeRosa was that one in a million supersub that caused many of the dominoes to fall.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
Then he should be
the highest-paid player in baseball. Sorry, not buying it.
And I promise, that’s my last word on the subject. For now, anyway. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The highest-paid player in baseball?
To replace a poor choice as his replacement? Hardly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If he's a one-in-a-million supersub
you’re darned right he should be the highest-paid player in MLB. Those guys don’t grown on trees, right?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd want him back.
The reason we go on and on about DeRo is that we had him. It’s one thing to keep talking about Brian Roberts or Jake Peavey. We never had them. But DeRosa was here. And Hendry didn’t improve the team when he got Bradley. He just replaced DeRosa’s offense with Bradley’s (only on paper, unfortunately.) The thing that concerns me is that we want the same guy who made such poor moves the last couple of seasons to make more. I have little confidence that he has the ability to evaluate talent to significantly improve this team.
"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse
I didn't understand getting rid of a utility man who could play solid if not great defense
everywhere on the diamond except pitcher and catcher, and who’s bat only improved the long he was here. It had nothing to do with sentimentality. It had everything to do with the trade not making baseball sense the day it was done, and makes even less sense now.
That trade forced us, or we chose (which is worse) to depend on Mike Fontenot, and Aaron Miles. It was a dumb decision, and an incredibly odd one considering the kind of production Derosa had just delivered. What’s worse, is he’s having the same type of season again. So if Jim was banking on last year being a one year wonder type season for DeRosa, he was terribly wrong.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
UR the manager NOT BRUCE.....
Miles aand DeRo are on the roster….
Who u startin at 2B?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
Manny Trillo
What do you think about that? :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:30 AM CDT up reply actions
What part of 42 RBI's.....
…..does any CUB have?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
+1 Al
nothing more frustrating then someone who is wrong and can’t admit it
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
you know, I've heard you claim over and over that having him here would change nothing
with absolute conviction, while us “Dero fans” have only said it MIGHT be better, what exactly is your proof that having him on the roster would change nothing? Especially considering that our major problem isn’t getting on base, it’s getting someone in once they get on base.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It also might be better, and more realistic,
with someone else.
Why just DeRo or zero?
And I’d say getting runners on base is a fairly big problem, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
still haven't answered the question
why are you so certain DeRo wouldn’t help this roster?
Dero is mentioned time and again because he was actually on the roster, and as many have said, there have been internal discussions within the Cubs organization to get him back
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Al
Upon further review, it sure seems you were the one who was picking a fight with me. I didn’t single out DeRo, you did.
If your goal was to generate traffic, congratulations. Otherwise, I’m not sure what your point was.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Read his post
and tell me what you think. He’s baiting me all the way.
I would have been perfectly content to let it drop.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Emotional no
what they did on the field yes. Ask Soto if Blanco wasn’t a bid influence on him. Soto adimitted how much Hank was a big help. DeRosa did the freaking job, period, I am not in love with the guy. He was valuable, and now we are finding out how much he was.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
I've been saying that about Soto/Blanco all year
Hank White had a lot to do with Soto behind the plate and in the batter’s box. Soto is still young, and to lose Blanco and get the ROY award did more harm than good.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Hey, BigJohnAZ: Thank you for the quote from Jack Brickhouse. It’s nice to know that I’m not the onlly one who admired and respected him, who’s still around.
You're Welcome
I remember hearing that on the broadcasts when I was a kid and everyone has seen the replay of the final outs in the 9th inning of the Don Cardwell no hitter. Jack said it during a nervous spot in that inning and I thought, what the heck, that’s a pretty cool line.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Forget it
It’s hopeless.
Again, I’m glad fans don’t run professional sports franchises.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Hopeless?
Apparently, you don’t want to acknowledge that there can be factors affecting players that have nothing to do with the player themselves.
Ask Ryan Dempster if it was tougher for him to pitch in April when he had to keep flying back and forth to Phoenix to be with his sick baby… and whether it got easier when the baby was airlifted to Chicago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Whatever, Al
They should have brought back every single player from last year, from Bobby Howry all the way up. That would have been perfect.
I’d suggest there also are a lot more to these decisions than either you or I or anybody else knows about.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Cripes.
No one is saying that. Every winning team has to make adjustments.
All we’re saying is that the Cubs made changes based on a faulty assumption: that they lost the NLDS because they didn’t have enough LH hitters. That’s not the reason they lost.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What is?
I’d suggest an inability to hit the predominantly right-handed pitching the Dodgers had was not insignificant.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
They couldn't hit ANY of the Dodger pitching
The glib reason given (me as much as anyone else) is a case of sphincter-tightening. But I still believe there’s something to it. It was as if every Cub player and every fan in Wrigley were carrying Bartman, Leon Durham, Tommie Agee, the black cat, and Sianis’ goat on their backs.
I certainly agree with you
I think there’s a dark cloud over Wrigley Field, and a heavy weight on the people who play there. And I wonder if it might be more heavy than any of us realize.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is why...
… the reason the team lost last year is that they were ill-prepared by their manager for postseason play. Did you watch that first game? They looked scared to death.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That doesn't wash, Al
What “preparation” should Piniella had done? Most of these guys were in the 2007 postseason, too.
Face it — the expectations and the pressure of this franchise winning a World Series might be too much for anybody to overcome.
It’s something we might not like to admit. But I think it’s something to consider.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
When I say "preparation"...
… I mean playing the last week of the season, vs. contenders, like the games meant something instead of like spring training games. The pitching used in the season’s final game vs. Milwaukee — when the Cubs could have helped decide their first round opponent — was reprehensible, like a split-squad game in March.
I think the team lost their edge that last week, and that showed in game one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't think the preparation for that week
was any different than any other team in that situation.
I’m sure if they did what you suggest and they came out flat, you and others would cry that they were tired and should have gotten rest the previous week.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
And you really think
another game or two would have made them not “scared to death”? I think they would have been scared either way.
This franchise does that to even the best players.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I think...
Winning a game would’ve calmed a lot of nerves for that team, but who knows.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I agree if you mean winning a playoff game
THis was more about not using the regulars as regularly the last week of the season.
And the Cubs in 2007 clinched on the last series of the season. How did that work out?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
This is simply my opinion
with no stats or facts or inside information to base it on.
I think the Cubs thought they were going to roll through the first round with ease. The last few games of 2008 were meaningless in regards to winning the division. If they had had a brain, they would have won the last game to play the Mets. The Dodgers were on a roll the last month+ of the season and seemed to be peaking.
DeRo hits his jack, we’re up 2-0 and here we go, right? Then Demp gets into trouble and gives up the Loney 4 bagger. You could tell by the reaction of the crowd it sucked everything out of Wrigley. I think this shook them up and their buttholes tightened and they never recovered, just like now, everyone is pressing, pressing, trying to hit 5 run HR’s. They knew they were in a short series and it blew them out of the water.
That’s how I saw it and still do. This year’s squad resembles those 3 games last year. Lou has to PINCH BUNT for a guy. WTF???
Also, for some freaking reason, the Cubs go as Sori goes. When he’s hitting, everyone loosens up. When he’s in one of his good for nothing streaks, he takes half the team with him. You watch, the next game Sori has a good to great offensive game, a bunch of them will chill out and start hitting.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Pinch bunt
I completely misread that on the first pass.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I don't buy this arg about bad preparation last year
Unlike 2007, Lou did not have to compete until nearly the last game of the season. He took the opportunity to set up his pitching rotation and rest some of his position players. He was trying for a different outcome than 2007.
I think that there is something to the “extra pressure on the players” theory. Read Bill Simmons description of the Red Sox travails before they finally won the big prize in 2004.
Thank you
You’re exactly correct.
The pressure of playing for this franchise just might be too much for anybody to bear. Particularly now that the Cubs are alone in their World Series futility.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:45 AM CDT up reply actions
And remember also...
… Crane Kenney’s bizarre decision to have a priest “bless” the dugout. This took the focus away from the players and put it back on the sideshow. Laugh if you want, but these things DO matter, especially after Lou made a point to focus on baseball only last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree completely
That was absolutely embarrassing. I lost a lot of respect for Crane Kenney because of that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Per Yahoo Sports
the Cubs hit .288 vs. LHP last year and .274 vs. RHP. Pretty close. I think a good portion of the 97 W’s were against RHP, although I don’t have that split.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Beating the Marlins in a game in July
isn’t quite like the playoffs, at least as far as the caliber of starters you might face.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
The BA vs LHP
was based upon a full season, not an isolated game against the Marlins. Why do you even suggest the two are comparable?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
True,
But the Cubs did have some modicum of success vs. righties. I agree with what Van Gundy said the other night after the Magic lost and a reporter asked him about the team’s lack of “experience” in the Finals. He said they’ve played hundreds and hundreds of games, it’s still another game. The Cubs have hit RHP before and some of them hit them pretty well. The Cubs went into a shell offensively after the Loney GS and they look like that now. Are you saying our hitting woes now are because we are only facing righties?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
No
I’m saying that you’re going to see better pitching in the postseason than you will over the course of the regular season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, in a playoff series, yes
But the Cubs had faced these guys before. It’s not like the Dodgers signed Feller, Koufax and Drysdale for the series. We had our stud pitchers out there as well, but the Dodgers found a way to get hits. The Phillies found a way to beat them. And I think a majority of the bloggers here felt the Cubs were better than the Phils.
The Cubs went into a collective funk all at the same time, sans D Lee. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
True, but
the regular-season games between the Cubs and Dodgers, for the most part, were low-scoring nailbiters that could have gone either way.
Perhaps there’s something bigger here that’s responsible for the problem, as I alluded to earlier.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes we outscored them 19 to 18
all told but won 5 of 7. We originally thought they would most likely be low scoring games. We got blown out the first two and only score 1 in the finale. We only score 6 runs total in the 3 games, I don’t think we were expecting to win 2-1 every game.
Unfortunately, we will never know deep down why we lost last year’s playoffs and this year’s offensive woes.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Maybe not "the" reason
But I think it was A reason.
Others being inability to field, pitch or hit…
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
FWIW
when someone posted a “what would you change” at the end of last year, I said “nothing, this team won 97 games.”
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem was they won 0 postseason games
2 years in a row. Now, maybe they made the wrong changes or maybe last year’s success in the regular season was just a fluke. It’s just so baffling that the offense could be this bad just a year later.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I know
I can’t explain it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe it's the ultimate "Cubbie Occurrence"?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
it can't last forever
statistically, they have to win SOMETIME. That goes for the regular season as much as it goes for the WS.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
However, these are the Cubs we're talking about.
They take drought to a new level.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
You would think
But this current offensive slide really does defy explanation.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I would have rolled the dice again with 2008's team this year.
And I am not saying that with 20/20 hindsight. I may have mentioned this same thing to Al during ST but I can’ remember.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Yes it really has worked out
with Hendry and Lou running the show. Numerous people in baseball , Steve Phillips, Harold Reyonlds and Joe Morgan couldn’t understand the DeRosa move.
But you will dismiss them to I am sure,
It is beyond me how you can sit there and say this team would not be better with DeRosa here.
Miles, Blanco, Scales, and Fontenot, murders row I tell you.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Without necessarily disagree with your overall point...
If Steve Phillips, Harold Reynolds, and Joe Morgan all agree on something, I’m inclined to assume the opposite is probably true.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 13, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
That's all I need
to convince me it was not a bad idea at the time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
That is why DeRosa
will get moved at the deadline to a contending team, ( and it won’t be the Cubs cause we won’t be contending) and he will produce for them.
Just like there is a strong majority of people who couldn’t understand the DeRosa move, and will never change there opinion, you obviously will not either. Thats fine, point is he will score more runs, knock in more runs and hit more homeruns, then Scales, Miles, Blanco and Fontenot, but hey the Cubs don’t need him. Cubs are doing just fine.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
its clear
you dont “need” anything
all the evidence in the world against your opinions and you’ll just dig in deeper
you dont need anyone agreeing with you to dig in your heels
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
The whole offense stinks.
Derrek Lee is the only one performing at his expected level. We need a star hitter — someone who can drive in runs consistently (to compliment Ramirez and Lee). And our role players aren’t performing nearly as well.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
Not to beat a dead horse...
But Adam Dunn and his production would have been golden right now.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
That fills one problem.
But we still have major holes at 2nd, center, and shortstop. Hell, even catcher.
I understand we can’t have an all-star at every position but dammit. These guys averages and production needs to be better than this.
It’s like Jake Fox’s defense … a notch above horrific.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
SS isn't too much of a problem
Theriot has been slumping the last few days but he’s won more games for the team than almost every other regular playing right now.
Eh
How much would having a rangy SS help out having a mediocre 3B though?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
+1
For anyone who says at this moment, defense is more important than the HR’s and RBI’s scored, I say they haven’t watched the Cubs play in the last 6 weeks.
Seriously, I’d put Jake Fox out there if he could get us 30HR’s this year. I don’t care anymore about the defensive repercussions.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Fox was hitting while he was here. Play him anywhere — LF, 3B, hell, let him catch — just get his bat in the lineup.
Maybe the Cubs can get Dunn anyway. It’s not like the Nats are going anywhere.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wow
I really thought you were going to disagree with me Al!
At what point do you think our starters get frustrated with our guys hitting? And when I say frustrated I hope that guy isn’t Zambrano…
I don't think it works that way.
The pitchers go out and do their jobs. What else can they do? Do they all have to go out and throw shutouts and hit homers themselves?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The pitchers are hitting better than the hitters.
Sad. I’d rather have Zambrano in the lineup than some of the regulars.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
Triples work too
Ask Lilly :)
All kidding aside, I don’t think there’s too much change that can be done overnight for the team. They have to wake up and realize they’re MLB players and do their damn jobs.
I'm not sure a really bad infielder can outhit their mistakes
and that is what Jake Fox would be at 3rd base. (if he’s a below average 1st baseman, I shudder to think about how his play at 3rd would be.)
Here’s an example:
As I recall, The Brewers had a better record in 2007 before the called Ryan Braun up. While Braun put up terrific offensive numbers, his defense was terrible. While Braun’s defense wasn’t the only reason for the record, it definitely contributed. Braun was moved to leftfield in the offseason after he was named rookie of the year because of the number of misplays Braun made at 3rd base.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
The Brewers lost in 2007
Because they had a bullpen that blew leads. It wasn’t just their defense.
Defense that forces pitchers to get extra outs is significant
and directly related to the success of a pitching staff.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
True
But if I recall the Brewers biggest blow was really bad umps in their games.
It was their series against the Braves. Texeira got called safe in a play he was clearly out on and everything else fell apart for them.
I feel like Ned Yost got ejected 3 games in a row that week and he had legit arguments every game.
True...
Didn’t he just sign a 1-year deal? But where the heck would he play? LF?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Put him in RF and Bradley on the bench.
Or maybe we could get the Nats to take Bradley in return. The entertainment value might put people in the seats there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or Sori at 2nd...
Dunn in LF. Defense would be an adventure, but at this point I’d take that risk.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno, man
Dunn in left, and Sori at second? Dome will have a LOT of work.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It's been a few years since Soriano played 2nd
and I think fans have forgotten how historically bad he was defensively.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
But if we're moving Soriano to 2B
What’s the point of Dunn? Having Jake Fox or Hoff playing there every day could bring equivalent power.
Um, not really.
You’re saying Hoffpauir and/or Fox are as good a hitter as Adam Dunn? Seriously?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I realized when I typed this
That I’m being ridiculous saying that.
But having them play regularly should help bring in some runs.
"adventure" is putting it lightly
Our strength is pitching, i’d rather go for better defense to help that.
if we could scratch 1 or 2 runs out (which may be asking a lot) but had a plus defensive team out there, maybe we don’t give up those cheap rbis to the other team.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
He signed a 2-year deal
I remember thinking at the time that he’d be a free agent again right when Lee’s contract expired w/ Cubs. I’m not saying, I’m just saying…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
How do you fit Dunn
into the roster? Soriano is a fixture in LF and Bradley is the RF.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
Put Soriano at 2B.
Yes, that would suck defensively. But at least the team would have a chance to hit.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Here's the problem:
How many bad defensive teams end up in the playoffs and actually WIN in the playoffs?
One of the reasons for the improvement of the Reds is their improved outfield defense with Griffey and Dunn (both outfield statues) now gone. Now that they actually have outfielders who can catch the ball, their pitching has benefited.
As I recall, one of the things that allowed the Red Sox to finally win the WS in 2004 was the improvement in their defense when they got rid of Nomar (who’s defense was below average) and picked up Orlando Cabrera and Doug M.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't imagine
Soriano being capable of playing 2B any more. His range would be almost non existant and I doubt he’d have the fearlessness to turn the double plays. I know there is talk of it happening but I feel Sori is past his prime as an infielder.
Suppose they did get Dunn and Soriano was a disaster as a 2B as I believe would happen. Now what do you do?
The quickest fix I’d try immediately would be to put Fox at 3B, move Fontenot to 2B and pray endlessly. It wouldn’t cost anything but some courage.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
Totally agree.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate to say it
but for the last few games, at least, Bradley’s been hitting the ball well. Twice today, both Bradley and Lee were on base and couldn’t get driven home.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
This is the same Bradley that went 0-6 two games ago?
Sure, he slapped a double yesterday, but his only trip to the bases today was a walk from Nathan. Not exactly tearing the cover off the ball there.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
He should have had another hit.
Gomez stole one from him on an incredible catch.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
And yet
If we were Twins fans, we’d probably be griping about Gomez’s initial hesitation on the play, necessitating that dive.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Well played, sir.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Third base
When Aramis went down the Cubs had no one to play third base. By putting Fontenot there they have weakened themselves at two positions. I’m getting a deja vu back a few years ago when Lee went down for most of the year. Again they had no one to play first and they again weakened themselves at first and at second (also right) field) when they put guys like Grudzelanek and Hollandsworth at first base. Hendry, please stock your team each year with the idea that there will be guys who get hurt. Learn your lesson.
I'd rather have DeRosa.
but i don’t want to sound like a broken record.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
cash poor
You are right about the broken record statement. It’s over. We need to move on now and enjoy our new guy, Bradley. Ouch.
It's not even Bradley that's the big problem.
It’s every other position other than first that has been a problem. Bradley just made some idiotic decisions yesterday — and the fans let their frustration out on him and his mishaps.
Bradley needs to perform better but I don’t think he’s the problem.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
Agree
Agree that he is part of the problem. He is way below his career numbers and hitting in the middle of the line up that does contribute to the problem.
As far as Deja Vu...
This feels like ’05 all over again, two good but disappointing years, and then a fall to mediocrity.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You know
I said early in this season that this team reminds me of 05. I got ripped in half for it. Hope I’m still wrong about that.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
Yep
You can’t be very negative on this site with all the eternal optimists around here. It’s called history, repetition, and reality!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
You can criticize, yes.
Just don’t be profane or call names.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Never have
There’s no reason to call anybody anything considering there’s a lot of evidence that suggests against their optimism.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
If that's the case
it’s a wonder how you can go through a game without slitting your throat.
3.5 games out on June 13.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
3.5 games of luck
Honestly, we could be 10 back. Thank god no one has took off.
I'll take that luck
It’s about the only luck the Cubs have had all season. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
25 years of heartbreak will do that
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Don't use that as justification
There’s a lot of people who have a lot more time than you invested in this.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
We've all seen years of it too
If you can’t take it, walk away for a while.
I have.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Mostly emotionally detached after last year
but I can justify anyway I’d like to. To each his/her own.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
It's really a shame that we haven't taken advantage of this pitching.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
no kidding
pitching like this is what usually fuels 8 game winning streaks… not 4 game losing streaks.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I believe the Marlins made a significant change during the '03 season
and that worked pretty well for them.
Astros
Didn’t they make a change the year they went to the NLCS?
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Dodgers anyone?
Getting Manny took them from the gutter to a playoff team. Who can be our Manny?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
That Dodgers team
had a better offense than we do right now.
Right now we need Jesus. Play him in center.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
Jesus, Buddha, Alah, and Yahweh are all needed in the OF.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Dodgers, indeed
You may remember that last year they pretty much sucked the first half of the season and then everything clicked later when Ramirez arrived. And they ended up in the NLCS.
Well, I speculate that when our Ramirez gets back we will see the same uptick that the Dodgers did last year – and end on a high note and into the playoffs like they did.
Nobody messes with the Jesus!
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
that was Jobu
Jesus just didn’t help. Didn’t say he COULDN’T. Just that he didn’t. :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I think coaching staff is getting the boot
I think they are going to have to start blaming someone and it’s going to be Gerald Perry.
I made a post on here about a month ago asking when we start blaming the hitting coach and I think we have to. Nobody on that team is hitting. It doesn’t matter who the pitcher is, which division they’re playing or league for that matter.
They need someone new to give them a different hitting approach.
Thank god we’ve had good pitching. If they hit as they should be, the Cubs would probably have 5-10 more wins under their belt and I’d venture more like 10 wins.
It's not Perry's fault.
He was the hitting coach last year when they led the league in runs scored. And suddenly he can’t coach any more? That’s not the issue.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have a different theory on that
He did an excellent job last year. But I think teams did their homework on the Cubs this year. Winning 97 games can do that. I don’t think he’s given them a new approach towards hitting and perhaps starting pitchers have figured them out?
I think they need a fresh approach out there for our guys at the plate.
Maybe?
Who knows what goes on in that clubhouse. Maybe they aren’t doing as good of a job as last year preparing for starting pitching?
Generally, I think coaches get way to much of the blame when things are going poorly
and to little of the credit when things are going well.
In this case, I think the blame lies with the players, not the coach. However, since you can’t fire all of the players, it’s likely the coach will be fired. At this point, you might as well try the change (and replace him with the Iowa hitting coach, I’d presume) since the offense totally stinks and can’t get much worse whether you make a change or not. I guess there’s only one way to go, up (hopefully).
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
too little of the credit?
the pineilla love-fest here over the last two years has been overwhelming…
i think you’re right in getting too much of the blame, but i think it works on the reverse end as well that they get too much credit when things are going well
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
agree
This falls on the players, however I think Lou’s verbal and non-verbal actions I am sure has something to do with it. I can’t recall when a whole team goes a month without hitting and scoring runs.
This team does not have the right pieces. Living on the east coast and get to watch the Phillies and Red Sox and it kills you to see how proficient they are.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Is it really so crazy to think
that Soriano’s complete inefficiency at lead off is putting the team at such a deficit that it can’t overcome it?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
When he's hot...
It’s almost a no-brainer to let him hit there, but when he’s struggling he’s nothing but a liability leading off.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you advocate playing Fox at 3B?
If you do, then you should have no problem with Soriano playing LF>
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
But
His hot streaks are shorter and his cold streaks are longer. He’s not worth even close to what he’s getting paid. On top of it, his loafing has increased, making him worth even less.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
sigh.
no one will argue that Soriano is hitting well right now.
He’s not a loafer.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
no he just doesn't play hard
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
yes he does.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 14, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
If we struggle by trade deadline
Will this team become sellers?
Do you think there will be pressure from upper management to lose payroll for the new ownership if it’s pretty much certain this team won’t make it to post season?
I hate to look ahead like that but it’s been on my mind the last couple weeks.
Who could they sell?
Harden would be a good candidate. Marmol. Guzman,
That’s about it, right?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
May be the best time to move Lee to get maximum value, especially since he has been hitting well. Of course, there goes our only bat, but…
When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb
Both have NTC's
Lee was asked if he wanted a trade in the off season and he said no. No one is taking Soriano without the Cubs paying a whole lot and then what’s the point?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
What about us paying
1/3 of the contract remaining. Think anyone would take it?
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
Those types of deals
don’t get done during the season.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs won't take on that kind of financial responsibility.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Who would take a .230 LF anyways right now
If he actually hit 60-70 points better Cubs might be winning a few more games…
He was hitting .284 at end of April
May he hit .216
June he’s hitting .174.
It takes effort to drop your average 50 points….
True
Forgot about Lee’s NTC. All these contracts are coming back to haunt us.
When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb
But think of it like this
Why would Lee want to be traded this year? Fans in Chicago do love him…he was on a 97 game winning team. The fact is, if we aren’t going to post season and he can go to a team that might I think he’d take the trade.
Red Sox
I’d think Lee would waive his no-trade clause for a chance to play with them.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Who are they gonna bench to play him?
They have as many first basemen as we have second basemen.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Youk to third.
I believe he’s played very well defensively there.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Then what about Lowell?
He’s done good this year too.
We’re not trading with Red Sox so it doesn’t matter.
How about Ortiz?
It’s not like he’s torn the cover off the ball.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
My bad
I thought for some reason Lowell was on the DL. I haven’t much about him all year, but he’s got good numbers.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
I would say Lilly...
You don’t think a contender would scoop him up, as well as he’s been pitching, with just one year left on his deal?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Believe it or not
He also has a no trade clause but he might wave it. The only REALLY valuable we have to trade but it would break my heart.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see Lilly going anywhere.
He’s likely to be the Cubs’ only All-Star.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not Marmol or Guzman
They take on no salary from the Cubs….
DLee, Gregg, Fukudome….those are guys they could try to unload to get some young guys in the farm system.
DLee isn't going anywhere
No one will give anything for Fukudome. Nothing. Not even a bag of balls.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
No one is taking Fukudome
He’s not hitting and he’s got a big salary.
Harden is the best candidate if he is healthy.
Maybe Fukudome's deal can be bought out and he can go back to Japan.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Aram
is the most valuable piece the Cubs have. I would think Dempster’s contract can be moved as well.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Not with 3 years remaining
at least not during the season.
I wouldnt’ want the CUbs to get rid of either Dempster or Lilly. They will still need someone to pitch and a rotation that starts with Z, Demp, and Lilly is still pretty formidable and can be for a few years to come.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Disagree
Those kinds of deals don’t get made in July. Teams aren’t trading for 3+ years of a high salary contract
High payroll team
It would have to be to the right team, but certainly not impossible.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Trading Harden would be alright
Wells/Marshall filled in really well while he was out.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Harden has real value...
… and won’t be back next year. I would NOT be opposed to trading him if it could bring some hitting help.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Miles & Harden
to … just about anyone for a good bat?
I don’t know who… or really care who. I just want someone who can hit in the clutch.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
It pains me to say it...
But Cubs and Sox fans can sympathize with one another right now. Both are in very winnable and mediocre divisions, both have horribly inconsistent offenses, great pitching, and are horrible with RISP.
Someday we'll go all the way...
Nailed it.
In the case of the Cubs, I’d say that their divisional opponents are better this year. Not leaps and bounds better, but improved and that’s hurt the Cubs. On the other hand, the Cubs offense has dropped substantially. Improved opponents and drop in offense = 2009 Cubs.
Regarding the Sox, I wouldn’t call the Sox pitching great. The starters are probably better than the Twins and other divisional opponents but Detroit has the 2 best starting pitchers in the division. The Sox offense is exactly as you described, “horribly inconsistent.”
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Scorched earth policy
Just torch everything from the past, and start from scratch.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Yeah, the 1929 uniforms!
And I still would love for the Cubs to use those as an occasional alternate uniform.
The Cubs could learn something from the Twins...
The Twins payroll is a little over $65 million. As we all know the Cubs payoll is $70 million more than that of the Twins. The Twins teach and train their young minor leaguers how to play The Game the right way from the first day that they join the organization. They teach their players to hustle, move runners ahead, and execute sacrifices. The Cubs bring in expensive mercenary players who may or may not fit with what the organization is trying to do. The Cubs have been marginally more successful than the Twins in the last 5 years (but not by much). The Twins are giving the Cubs a baseball lesson this weekend. Hopefully, Lilly can be a stopper tomorrow.
Sadly...
Even if Lilly goes 9 and gives up a run, we still could be in trouble.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
He could go
for a complete game shutout and we could find someway to put up negative runs on the board.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
The Cubs could
but it would take at least a decade to implement that throughout the organization.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Eventually they have to bite the bullet
and start over.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Please.
Watch games. The problem isn’t the players lack of knowledge of small ball, and you don’t need youngsters to play that style.
I do watch the games, buddy...
…and I can tell you that the Cubs get plenty of runners to 3rd base with less than 2 outs and then fail to plate them. The lead off man never scores unless he hits a home run. The pitchers rarely execute a sacrifice on the first attempt, if they get it down at all. It’s not knowledge of The Game, it’s execution. This team doesn’t do it.
Every night I pray to the god I don't believe in...
that Hungry Jim will be fired or decide to go into a different line of work. This whole fiasco starts at the top. Is this flop the players’ fault? Hell no! Players do what they do – it’s management’s job to put a winning team on the field. Bradley can’t help who he is. Miles can’t suddenly become good. Aramis can’t wear a bionic shoulder. Kosuke can’t become a major league hitter just by snapping his fingers. Please, Jim, please, for the love of peace, go away!
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions
HR RIOT KKK
I said some time ago the RIOT was one of the best I have seen hitting the little dunk to right field behind the runner…………. But he started thinking HR … 7 kK’s in 3 games I am joininghe anti Riot peeps………… De Ro .275 Thanks Jim H.
by nimblenikelfoos on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT reply actions
don't blog drunk
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
You mean you're still not drinking?
You have more willpower than I do.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Would you trust the Cubs to remake the team...
with Hendry doing the remaking?
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:50 PM CDT reply actions
Heck no!
He’s the main reason for this year’s debacle. Handing huge contracts to Sori, Dome, and Bradley have completely ham-strung this team.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
He has confused running a major league baseball team...
with running a fantasy team.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And his fantasy team...
would be mediocre as well
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I think a lot of fans
confuse running a fantasy team with running a big-league team.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
No trade clauses?
Has he given every player with a big contract one? Unbelievable!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Thats not unheard of
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Sort of what I've been wondering
It is de riguer throughout MLB to give your big-ticket players NTCs?
They are an incentive to sign...
Below market deals like Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano did at the time. The three of them would’ve fetched more on the open market, but decided to take discounts to stay here.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, the Cubs have re-signed several of their own players
which means that several of those players were close to 10/5 rights anyway (Lee & Ramirez.) No trade clauses for the short time until they have obtained that status doesn’t seems like a bad trade-off if you can sign the player for less than market value at the time.
Dempster re-signed with the Cubs in the offseason and has no-trade protection due to his 5/10 status .
BTW, 5/10 status is 5 years with the same team, 10 years in MLB.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that an "either or" thing?
Like 5 years with the same team OR 10 years service? Or is it an “and” thing where you need both?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Both,
a player needs to have 10 years of MLB service time and 5 years with their current team.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
How many days until Fox can be up
I think people are speculating he’s going to start beginning tomorrow.
Doesn’t he have to wait 5 more days unless someone goes on the DL?
Thought so
Remember that makes up for my bonehead Adam Dunn is equal production as Hoff/Fox comment :)
Can someone kick Aaron Miles in the shin, then?
I mean, like, really hard.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Someone said he was still favoring that shoulder of his
maybe he can go back on the DL b/c of that?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Maybe the gatorade machine can beat the crap out of Miles
I’d rather have that on the bench anyways!
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water
While the Cubs look horrendous, the way baseball economics are, there is no way the Cubs are going to be sellers unless they are really, really out of the race by the end of July. That’s not gong to happen. The division is not good and I don’t see anyone taking off.
Some of the trades proposed here are just not going to happen. Anyone with a NTC is not going to be moved and I doubt the Cubs will ever be sellers this year anyway.
Hendry is not going to sit on his hands here. I don’t know what he can or will do but I’m pretty sure he will do something.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT reply actions
Then
You deal Vitters for a major league bat that is playable right now. If you’re not going to sell and you’ve got all of these resources tied up right now, Josh Vitters is a luxury as an heir apparent even if it is three or more years out. Otherwise, you sit there and hope that lightning strikes some of these guys and they start hitting. Those are the only two realistic options.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
you don't deal Vitters
under any circumstance…..
any trade you could make would be filling a “temporary hole” based on salary commitment. We’re committed to LF, CF, RF, 1B, 3B with HUGE salary commitments, that then couldn’t be moved in another direction
Vitters is the replacement for Lee after next year and a cheap one at that we can build around
you don’t move him to acquire a big time bat that you don’t have salary capacity or lineup positioning for long-term
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Isn't Vitters a 3B and the heir to Ramirez?
And he’s more than a year away.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
if Aramis opts out...
yes, but DLee will be the quicker hole to replace
Vitters is destroying A ball, he should be moved to AA and given the next year and a half to move forward, seeing him as an opening day or call-up in the 2011 season seems very reasonable
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
He could also play 3B with Ramirez moving to 1B
Not that that’s a given, but it’s another possibility.
yeah i'm assuming
aramis’ D will be better than Vitters
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
If you don’t deal him under any circumstance, you sit an watch this team flail away all season. You don’t get a difference-making bat without dealing him, it’s that simple.
And yes, he’s more than a year away. The last “can’t miss” masher that beat up pitching all the way to AAA was Matt LaPorta and he’s failed miserably in the majors this year. While it’s fun to dream of Vitters fitting right in when others are moved out, the reality is that he’s as big of a question mark to ever make a difference in the majors as this current lineup is at turning it around significantly. If you’re not willing to take that risk, you may as well stand pat and pray.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
49 PA's
give young guys time and they hit. sometimes it takes time but they usually get to their minor league level of production
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Still failing miserably
Yes, small sample size but on a Cleveland team going nowhere and with his AB’s pretty brutal, that is considered failing. LaPorta isn’t obviously a total failure but my point is that Vitters is a long way away from being a difference maker no matter what he’s doing in Low A ball.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
assuming he'll be a difference maker
right away is the issue
i’m not saying he’s going to be a stud in 2 years, i’m saying he should be in our lineup in 2 years
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Potentially
That is the biggest bargaining chip if you’re gong for it this year and I think they are going for it this year.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
as poorly as we're playing now
‘going for it this year’ if that means trading your future for mebbe winning the nlc with 90 wins, is a ‘brock for boglio’ stupidity
The flip side
Then the flip side is you stand pat all season long and acquire no legitimate run producers because aside from Vitters, there is nothing else in the organization that will return just that. Sure they may be able to deal second-tier ML guys for another question mark looking for a change of scenery…but we’ve got enough of those guys already.
And with the construction of this club and it’s uncertainty in a few years, wishing on Vitters alone is foolhardy no matter how he turns out…unless of course he intends on playing Eddie Feigner along with three other guys to round out his King and His Court.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I am really looking forward to these changes but primarily because of what they
may say about Hendry and how his thinking/approach may have changed.
Given the contracts on the roster there isn’t a great deal of flexibility and I think Hendry is as loyal as you will find in the game to the staff that he hires. Notwithstanding all that, Hendry has made some good/gret moves in the past when it looked like all was lost. I am not going to complain about the off-season moves, I already did that during the off-season, just look forward to making some changes or even tweaks that can help get this team playing consistently good baseball.
I think you're right
Most of his moves have not looked great TO THIS POINT. But I can’t imagine he’s going to stand pat.
Remember, he’s trying to keep his job, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Which is why I think there’s something to this Deep Goat information. Stay tuned. It may not happen before tomorrow’s game, but I’m reasonably sure that something WILL happen — sooner rather than later.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Unlike in past years...
I would not be shocked, saddened, or outraged if anyone were to get traded or dumped.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Do I still get the right to be outraged?
Depending on who gets traded if there is one?
Of course...
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
players that I would not want to get traded
Marmol, pitching staff, guzman, soto, bradley,
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
He's still an unknown, with a big contract, playing at a serious low.
We’d get no value for a guy that, by all logic, SHOULD blow up at some point. We don’t want to be here in 3 months lamenting him going on a tear for some other team because we never gave him a chance, do we?
We know everyone else. Sori streaks. Lee is reliable but aging. On and on and on. We know what they bring, we know what we’d lose in being rid of them, we know what value is fair for them. Bradley (and to a degree Dome, as these extended slumps HAVE to be mental) is wrong right now, but this isn’t his normal. Something HAS to give with him. I’d rather see a coaching change get the chance to fix him than see him go somewhere and right the ship.
A ‘failed experiment’ isn’t what the cubs need. Don’t give up on him, FIX HIM.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano isn't streaking
He’s severely slumping and not getting better.
It takes really really bad hitting to drop your average over 50 points in a 6 weeks period.
Steaking, slumping...
… same thing. You are on a hot streak, you aren’t. Semantics.
We know who he is and what he does. Trading him, at least we are trading a known element. With Bradley, we don’t know what he’s even worth. Is he worth how he’s playing now? Is he worth how he played last season? The answer is somewhere between, but who knows where?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
keep vitters
keep thomas
keep jay jackson
other than that, meh.
Here are the Cubs in a nutshell...
they have a six-year minor league vet who has raked at every level but they’ve never given him a ghost of a chance to see if he can do it in the bigs (or even peddle him off to the American League in exchange for something useful.) Then, when their long-awaited pennant contender starts coming apart at the seams, we all look to him (no longer a kid) as the answer.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:01 PM CDT reply actions
Seems like
the Cubs have an abundence of players who fit that description.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
It'll never happen...
…but in reality it should be Pinella getting the boot. As almost everyone, including himself after last year’s postseason meltdown, intimated, it was Lou who so badly wanted to make the team more lefthanded. Doing so undercut the team’s versatility, both in terms of payroll (i.e. good players with attractive contracts) and on the field.
I’m not a huge Jim Hendry fan, and Pinella is entertaining, but this is by all accounts “his team” – the team he has wanted since he got here. So either he doesn’t know how to manage it, or misunderstood what a winning team, forget a championship team, looked like.
But it’ll never happen.
"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore
If we become "sellers"...
I don’t see Lou sticking around the whole season.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I was going to say it before
But if Lou were to be let go…nobody should say they are surpised, didn’t see it coming, or that is wasn’t fair. He didn’t do a good job managing the post season and he’s made some bonehead moves in the games this year. Much more than in the past.
That being said, who would replace him? Surely not Alan Trammel?
They would do that with the pitching coach?
Wouldn’t that take him away from our starters?
Removing Rothschild from pitching is the last thing this team should consider.
doing anything that weakens the pitching
would be a bad move.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Wild guess
Bob Brenly was an option for Milwaukee. While I’m not normally a fan of the move from booth to bench, it isn’t that far out there.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Wouldn't mind that at all...
Probably not very realistic, but it’d definitely be interesting to see.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
It does make a little bit more sense than just a wild guess, and Brenly has a track record, I just find it hard to believe it will happen. But if I were to take a dark horse, it would be Brenly.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Plus...
Besides the current staff, who has seen this team play more and knows them better than BB?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Why not Trammel?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
terrible track record
with his last big league team
by desmoCubbie on Jun 13, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it possible that Lou asked for a more left-handed lineup...
and then Hungry Jim blew up the winning team to do it? And now Lou has thrown his hands up and said, “Screw it, nobody can win here”?
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions
That is
exactly what happened – but how else could Hendry have done it? We can criticize his choice in personnel (which he deserves) but there’s no getting around the fact that we could only get left handed in a couple of places – 2B being one of them, along with RF – and, consequently, we lose some of the best leaders and most flexible players, either for payroll or position purposes.
Lou wasn’t satisfied with the team that won 97 games, and the division to boot, and this is what Hendry did to give him what he wanted. They are both culpable, but it seems that it was primarily Lou’s idea.
"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore
Again, last year's team wasn't "blown up"
Most of the faces on it are very familiar. They just aren’t playing like it.
Guys like Soto, Soriano and Fukudome are hurting the Cubs. And guys like Bradley not playing up to his capability.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Other than time, though
how do you get people to play up to their capabilities?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Ask our opponents every series
They seem to have the answers….
Aside from attacking them with cattle prods,
that’s a good question.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
And Soriano
His homeruns don’t make up for lack of hitting every other game. He had some blasts in April that gave us the win but now I think we’ve lost more games with him not hitting in key situations.
Blown up
no. But broken up, for sure. There is no debating the fact that DeRosa and Wood were effective, hugely instrumental, and popular guys on the team. One of last year’s buzzwords was “chemistry” – the team had great “chemistry.”
Romanticizing aside, both of those guys contributed mightily on the field and in the clubhouse. And who are we to say that chemistry isn’t real or important? It sure sounded important last year.
"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore
Chemistry is overrated
Win and you’ll like your teammates. A losing team that looks happy/friendly would be worse.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I agree 100 percent
Chemistry is HIGHLY overrated. The Oakland A’s in the early ’70s hated each other, but they still won World Series.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
And I think we overrate DeRosa's and Wood's contributions
to any sort of clubhouse atmosphere.
From most of what I read last season, the best guy in the clubhouse was Dempster.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
And Demp probably...
Hasn’t been himself this year, because of the terrible situation with his daughter.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
we're not losing in the clubhouse
we’re losing on the field.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Agreed...
I was just making an observation based on what NBF noted.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
How can you suggest
that DeRosa’s contributions were overrated? His numbers as a full service utility man were incredible. He alone could have filled in the positions of 3B, 2B 1B and the corner OF. He could have eliminated the need for Miles, Freel, Hoffpauir and Fontenot.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
Agreed...
Chemistry is a term often applied retrospectively to teams that do well.
I think the 70s A's had it, but showed it in a grumpy way
I’ve always liked the A’s and have a few books on them, especially the 1970s teams. Written by some of the local beat writers, the books have intimated that all of them were gamers, dead intent on playing the game the right way and having no patience for mental mistakes and lackadaisical play. They kept themselves in check – fisticuffs being the preferred method.
winning creates chemistry
not the other way around
agree with your point
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Acta about to get canned in DC...
With our very own Jim Riggelman taking over.
Someday we'll go all the way...
Didn't that happen last year
in Seattle?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Guess he'd fit right in.
As I recall, his career numbers with runners in scoring position are terrible.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Then maybe...
Hendry should have told Lou to chill out. That’s what a strong, effective executive does.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:17 PM CDT reply actions
Lou probably countered with...
“Look… we’ve tried it your way for 2 years, now let’s try it my way.”
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Au contraire!
I think Lou had enormous influence since day one.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you sure it was "Look..."?
It might have been “Listen…”
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Look (not to sound like Lou, but) ...
Maybe Hendry agreed with him.
If he did, that wouldn’t be unusual. Becuase every GM and every manager strive for LH/RH balance in their lineups.
The Cubs were suseptible to strong, right-handed pitching. Rememeber the regular-season games against the Dodgers last year? Most of them were close — 2-1, 3-2, etc.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Good idea, not so good results
Getting more LHs and switch hitters was a decent enough idea. Milton Bradley and Aaron Miles being the acquisitions…well, let’s say the gamble hasn’t exactly paid off.
One trade I could see....
Maybe with the Mets?
I don’t know for who yet but one large contract for another? They need a pitcher, we need a hitter.
I highly doubt we’d ever get a David Wright (who I bet could play 2B when Ramirez comes back) but perhaps something happens?
um, WHY would the Mets EVER trade David Wright?
I’m not sure who the Mets would be willing to trade since they’ve been hit hard with injuries. I would imagine the Mets might be interested in Jake Fox but I’m not sure who they’d be willing to offer in return.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say they would trade him
I actually said I highly doubt we can get him. Mets are actually in same situation we are in with injuries to their staff. But their needs is pitching and our needs is power.
And speaking of David Wright, the second he becomes a free agent he’s out of NY. I guarantee it. He hates the media there, being the go to guy, and how the fans have turned on them. I think down the road he’d be a great fit in Chicago but we do have a great 3B.
Now that's where we totally disagree.
I don’t think there’s any chance the Mets let Wright leave. They can offer him an extension at any time and since he’s the face of the francise I suspect they will do this long before he becomes a free agent.
It’s not like the Mets are loaded with talented position players in the minors, they will be under a tremendous amount of pressure to keep Wright a Met.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Just out of curiousity do you live in the NY area?
I do and I can see from his interviews on TV, sports radio and just fans in general…it’s doesn’t seem like it would shock anyone.
Even Mets fans said they think he’ll leave because of the reasons stated above. I’m sure Mets will do anything they can do keep him though.
Nope, I'm in Chicago.
It just seems that so often players take the most money they can get, even if it seems obvious they are unhappy playing for the team/city (A-Rod is an example.)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget with A-Rod
Nobody else would take him for his salary demands.
You gotta trust me on David Wright though, that guy is not happy being on the Mets. A lot of people I talk to thinks he’d take a slightly smaller salary to go to a small market team.
I'm just fixated on blaming every problem on Hendry...
I mean, I have to hold on to something.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT reply actions
Deep, Al, D e e p
I hope your goat is right. I can’t watch this team right now and they’re MY team.
Cubs have been shut out 5 times this year, not 3
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
You're right.
I missed the first two when looking at the game results. I’ll fix the post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
NP, the reason I remember is I had just posted this an hour ago in the game thread lol
sadly, I might add :(
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Yuck
Only 5?
Feels like double that, at least.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
We only got snookered 8 times all of last season
this trend is not something we want to continue.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
I think they've scored a token run
a couple of times in the late innings when they went on to lose.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably
Its been a year of ugly offense.
And the matchups coming up don’t look any prettier. Anyone know if we’re likely to miss Verlander in the DET series?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
The Cubs are currently
6-11 in one-run games. I’m not as shocked by those numbers as I am the fact that we’ve been involved in that many close ones. 29% of the contests to date have been decided by one run.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Typically, your 1 run W-L record
is a good indicator of your team.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
IIRC
Their one-run record was miserable, even worse than this, in 2007. By the end of the season, it was .500.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:32 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I mean
as a snapshot of how the team is doing. Right now, they have a losing record in 1 run games and it shows on the field. If they get that stat back up to .500 I am sure we will be talking about how well they were playing.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
not really
typically 1 run W-L records are close to .500
when they’re large discrepancies in the data its usually based off of luck
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope big moves are in store
I can’t bear to watch Aaron Miles hit soft grounders to the pitcher anymore. I can’t bear watching Fukudome strike out every time he comes up to the plate or Theriot striking out every time because he thinks he’s a home run hitter. The only thing I’m proud of is Derek Lee. He’s staying in there after the first month of crap and has raised his average.
bo$$
Milwaukee just left the bases loaded in the bottom of the eighth.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
doubt they'll make it a habit
like the cubs have
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
The whole division
has been like that recently. The Cardinals and Reds have been no better than the Brewers and the Cubs.
Please, let’s not pretend this stuff only happens to the Cubs. Please.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I know it doesn't
but I watch the Cubs the closest so everything feels like its bigger when it happens to us.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Sox have the same problem...
Ozzie has been pretty animated about it as well, calling guys out. Saying they get a guy on 3rd, or bases loaded, and then do what they do best and strike out.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
The Sox offense is bad, and it is terrible with runners in scoring postion.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Maybe it's in the water?
Very strange that BOTH offense for our teams stink in the clutch.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, I'm listening to the UekMan
The Brewers have to be thinking WTF? They should be 10 games up at least right now…
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
That's one crappy silver lining! lol
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Every time I think of Lou's LH hitter request or excuse I hear my Mom's voice
“be careful what you wish for”….
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
I don't know about you
but I still think Milton is going to hit. Sure he looks like he’s lost out there sometimes but he will break out of his big slump. Soriano didn’t start out hot and look how he finished his season. Hopefully I’m right.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
but it seems that we really haven’t seen any hint of it from Bradley. And his on field mind is wandering. I think he will hit, too, but September may be too late.
Sori is the definition if streaky. When he’s on, he’s unreal. When he’s off, he doesn’t even make contact. All or nothing. Usually, when he is in suck mode, we have a fwe others picking up the slack. Not this year.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
what in Milton Bradley's career numbers makes you think he'll turn this around to any productive degree?
Sure he might not hit .200 all season, at the end of the year he might get to .250, but it seems like there are quite a few people who are ready to ignore:
1. Bradley is hurt an awful lot and
2. Last year was a career year, and he really hadn’t ever come close to put up those numbers together. He was a career .268 hitting coming into the season, with a career high 22 home runs.
People act like Bradley is the next Tony Gwynn, only with power
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Question:
Was anyone else scratching their heads when Lou took Soto out and sent in Andres Blanco to pinch-hit? I know Soto has been down on power this year, but I thought then and I still think now that I would rather have seen him bat.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions
But Geo can't bunt
at least Blanco made a productive out.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Andy White is the only position player I trust to bunt
If we had tied it, he’d have stayed in at 2B or SS, and Hill would have been behind the plate. After the initial shock, it began to make a lot of sense.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
When lou takes out Soto
Because he doesn’t think he’s capable right now to get a big hit to score some runs there are some serious problems.
that was assinine
i went off in the game thread about it
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought it was the right call.
Soto was an easy DP target. Blanco could bunt the runners along and did so, putting the Cubs in position to tie the game with a single.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
it decreases our chances at scoring runs
i’m not sure why its a good move to decrease your chances of scoring runs, use 2 bench players to make the move on a 4 man bench (since we were pH for the catcher) and giving a free out to one of the best pitchers in baseball
explain to me how thats a good move?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Soto has 11 DP
already. If he had been hitting even adequately, leave him in. The problem is that Fukudome can’t even make contact and them we depend on Theriot who was having a bad hair day. No one on the bench to pitch hit also put us in a hole.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
so 11 DP
in 170 or so PA’s
meaning there was about a 6.5% chance of him grounding into a DP
and about a 67% chance of making an out
while a sac bunt is a 98% chance of making an out
how is this a good play?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
because
it almost guarantees putting the runner in scoring position.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 14, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
it DECREASES your RUN PROBABILITY
what is so hard about this to understand….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably because
he can’t bunt and didn’t want a potential GIDP.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Adding insult to injury...
the pitcher who dominated the Cubs today, Swarzyck…he got sent back to the minors after the game.
linebrink got dfa'd
after beating us a few years back
It's because he gave up so many runs in his outing, right?
I mean, who expects the 2009 Cubs to rack up that many on a guy?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
it takes 2 to trade
if he can’t play, why on earth would anyone else want him?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
maybe somebody feels like they can fix him
Rudy Jaramillo has been known to resurrect players. Maybe the rangers would do a fukudome/blalock swap.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Blalock has hit 13 homers this season and is only playing DH
first, I don’t want yet ANOTHER injury prone guy on this roster. Secondly, why would the Rangers give up a power bat, for someone they MIGHT be able to fix?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Brewers only have 2 hits today
one out one on bottom 8. It’s frigging contagious!
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Sorry, botom 9
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Final score:
White Sox 7, Brewers 1.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn
even the brewers scored a run today.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
It was a meaningless run in the ninth inning.
Corey Hart made an out on one pitch to end the game.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
DId you see whou drove in the Brewer's run? Yep, our boy Casey lol
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Geez.
Even Casey McGehee would be better than Aaron Miles. Here you have a converted catcher who the Brewers are playing at SECOND BASE.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He's hitting .311 this year, McGehee is.
Do you think we should try to get him?
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
How many PAs?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
61 ABs
http://www.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=431171
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I was just answering a question
Jeebus.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
There actually was somebody
on a game thread a few nights ago pining for McGehee.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Now we know just how bad things have gotten
if ANYONE is pining for McGehee.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Simply curious
Take it easy, buddy.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Unfortunately:
Another final score: Cardinals 3, Indians 1.
Say what you like, but I wouldn’t cheer for the Cardinals even if Hell froze over. The White Sox I can cheer for, but the Cardinals: never.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
What if the Cards are playing the Brewers
on the last game of the season and theCubs need that Brewer loss to cause the Cubs to win a playoff spot?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Only if the Cardinals winning will benefit the Cubs will I cheer for them.
Otherwise, no go. This goes back to 2006. In that terrible season in July, I was at a Cubs-Cardinals game at Wrigley. After the Cubs won, some Cardinals fans threw chewing gum in my general direction.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what I figured you really meant
I root for the Cubs and the team currently playing the W Sox, EXCEPT if it’s a team ahead of said Cubs in the standings!
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Card fans
“After the Cubs won, some Cardinals fans threw chewing gum in my general direction.”
(sarcasm on)
Really! Surely not the best fans in baseball!"
(sarcasm off)
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!
Hey Chicago what do you say,
The Cubs are gonna win today!
Between StL and Milw I'd have to root for StL
The Brewers still strike me as a bunch of smart alecky punk asses concerned about baggy pants and untucked shirts as much as anything else. That’s not to say I still don’t have a problem with the Cards’ weasel of a skipper and their smug fanbase – but at least the Cards have actually won something to justify their attitude.
Exactly how I feel.
It sucks when some other team gives you the middle finger, but when it’s got a World Series ring on it, you really can’t say much.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
Change guesses
Coach / Manager / GM change: I wouldn’t call Perry’s job “safe”, but I refuse to think this bad offense is his fault. First guess, in this category, is Lou resigning. Maybe one or more of his coaches would resign too.
Big Trade: First and only guess is this would involve a starting pitcher, either Wells, Harden or maybe Marshall, being traded for a position player.
Enough Is Enough: In this category, the guess is Fukudome has worn out his welcome. He goes somewhere, like to AAA or back to Japan. Last year they were winning and, in a sense, could afford to ride it out with him. Always thought it was ridiculous to make acquiring Bradley a priority, probably second only to signing Dempster, and then giving Fukudome prime time in CF.
Interleague games are at Wrigley, so I don’t think changes revolve around bringing-in a DH type like Fox at this point.
If Deep Goat knows about changes, then he should at least be sure of the plural and know at least 1 side, either who is coming or who is going.
i want the Cubs to send Fukudome to AAA
he needs to go back to the basics.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
All I know is that “changes” are coming. Possibly “plural”, yes. But that’s all I know as of now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If you can share this
Al,
What’s the wildest rumor you’ve heard confirmed from a source of yours that turned out being false?
I believe this one for sure but I’d love to hear the false ones you’ve heard.
Coaches getting fired many times
have nothing to do with whether or not the poor performance of the players if their “fault”. You simply can’t fire all of the players performing poorly so they team brings in a different “voice”.
It’s very unfair since coaches are the lowest paid part of a MLB team and have the least security.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I know what you mean
against my make up to root for the Sux, but it’ll have to do this weekend.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Do yourself a favor
Don’t do what I did and look at the NL Central standings.
Despite being 3.5 games out….last place is only 6 games out.
well
at least no one’s run away with it yet, right?
thats encouraging, right?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
i'm trying
but i’ve running low on faith for weeks now.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Brewers Lose , Cards win
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
I am getting this bad
feeling that Soto was a “one-hit wonder” in 2009.
Apparently, he is only able to hit pop-ups to the shallow outfield, or takes called 3rd strikes.
It is not the same guy.
He threw out one runner today, but, his inability to pick up a ball thrown into the dirt by Harden, was responsible for a runner reaching second, and then on Mauer’s single, he came home.
However, with the execption of Albert Pujols, it is a team game, and with the Cubs now at the bottom of the entire majors in success with RISP, it will be difficult for them to right this flailing ship.
WHERE IS THE OFFENSE?!!
2008 was our shot
face it
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
And they come only once a century?
Its preemptive to call this season over. Its asinine to act like next year couldn’t be “our shot” even if this season isn’t.
We are a big market team with new incoming ownership and a plethora of players that have shown a history of good play. Changes could be coming tomorrow, and maybe this season is “our shot”. Changes will surely come in the off season. Maybe next year is “our shot”. 2008 was nothing more than “a shot” just like every season.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you really only 25?
You show more reason and wisdom than a lot of older posters here.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup, really "only" 25.
Doesn’t feel like “only” though. Just did a three mile run along the lake, and i can’t move from the neck down. And i’m grumpy because the concert i’m going to tonight is all ages. Damn kids, all up on my lawn…
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
does it happen to be
Kenny Chesney?
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
NO. Hah.
I was actually supposed to work Chesney, but ducked out to see Phoenix at the Park West.
Stopped by Soldier Field this AM to check out the preshow goings on though, and was amused to see he is using the same stage setup as last year, right down to the beach section up front and the Corona banners.
Sorry for the poorly placed finger…
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
OH, and slightly OT...
… but also slightly On Topic as i just spoke of Soldier Field…
Anybody else see that the Broncos named Orton their starter? Gotta sting to be a fan of that team right about now. MAJOR downgrade.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I just saw that
and all I could think was “thank you, denver! go bears!”
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Maybe we can trade Jim Hendry for Jerry Angelo straight up? :-)
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
Denver does have a SS I like a lot… maybe that’d be the next theft we get?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
We can start fleecing Denver the way Boston teams keep breaking the hearts of all Minnesota fans!
I know you get the reference, Simmons lover. :-)
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm all for it
if it takes us to where Boston’s gone. Championship!
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I like your spirit.
Got out to Fenway a couple of weeks ago (for a concert, didn’t get to see a game unfortunately) and i’d love to see Ricketts take Wrigley in the direction Fenway has gone as well.
All the charm of Wrigley, with all the modern amenities and space you get to enjoy at say, Miller Park or Coors Field. Keep the ivy, keep the scoreboard, keep the feel… but update for not only a better fan expeirence but greater revenue (which could hopefully be dumped in to payroll and more importantly, development).
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope Ricketts is smart enough to pull that off
How they’ve turned Fenway into a cash machine while winning and getting younger is really impressive.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
And with that
I’m off. have a good time at your concert. :-)
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Thanks! Have a good one.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
How was Phoenix live?
I’ve been a fan of theirs for a while, but haven’t had the chance to see them yet….
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 13, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Underwhelming.
Thomas Mars’s voice is catchy on the record. Grating live. They were awesome when he disappeared for 5 minutes at a time on occasion.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh...
That’s not what I would’ve expected, but as I think about his voice I could probably see that being the case…
Thanks.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 14, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry about the "only"
Somewhere along the line I entered my 30’s. Damn.
Anyway, good to have a voice of reason.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
So close i can smell 'em.
Ewwwww.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't know the half of it
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I think youre wrong
We have too many immovable pieces stuck in slumps or in general decline (Soriano/Lee, respectively), the success in 08 was in large part due to career years from a number of players, and as we’re seeing, theyre not repeating them ( Soto, Theriot, Harden, Dempster etc)
Im not so sure the new owner will bathe the team in cash when so much money is tied up in Soriano, Ramirez, Dempster, Zambrano, Fukudome and Lee, and so much has been wasted on Miles, Bradley and Samardzija and what we have coming up through the system is hardly stellar; so there is no room to improve b/c so many of the guys are immovable b/c of the size or terms of their contract.
So yes, I think 2008 was the groups best shot, and how will next year be better when the guys mentioned above are another year older and another year slower?
What Changes will come when so many key parts of the team are locked up to long term deals, many of them with No Trade Clauses, Im afraid these changes you speak of are fools gold.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Truth be told
There are a lot of maybes in there but it appears you refuse to acknowledge that indeed, just maybe, this season IS over. There is just as good of a chance, some would say better than just good, that this season is indeed already a wash. Just the same as the other “maybes” you included.
Just saying…
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I just hope Deep Goat's promised "changes"
are bigger than Lou’s changes for the last few days of batting Fontenot second.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Remember how
We had that horrible skid and then they made those big callups that seemed to help for a while… just maybe…
Sure makes me wish we got Adam Dunn
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
Dunn, Ibanez,
Abreau, Bradley.
Those were the LH choices to choose from.
And look at the year Dunn is having with the Nationals
Ibanez was a “meh” kind of player. Nobody expected him to have this kind of season. Dunn on the other hand typically hits 40 home runs. Sure he bats around .250, but the LHP power was what Lou wanted, and he would have been perfect. Never injured, guaranteed runs..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
Does anyone else
find it ironic that Lou disliked Eyre and Woody for having to “babysit” them, but was just fine with signing a guy like Bradley?
Gammons was on espn today
and basically said any and all positional players on the Nats will be up for sale, other than Zimmerman of course.
So Dunn could be had, Dukes could be a risky gamble
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I wouldn't take on Dukes.
Dunn… whatever it takes, bring him here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah, Dukes seems to be the more stable of him and Milledge
But his upside is a 20/30 line, but upside wont help us in the here and now. There might not be anywhere to put Dunn unfortunately, but someone like Christian Guzman could certainly help
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Goodness
I’d have any of those three instead of Bradley.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd still take Bradley
Ibanez = old
Dunn= Fox-like in the field
Abreau= old
I like Bradley. I just wish he’d start hitting like he can.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
But when he's not hitting...
What’s there to like? All of the other three options are producing right now, especially Dunn and Ibanez, so how can you say that you’d still rather have Bradley at this point?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't like doing hindsight dealing
I thought Bradley was a good sign then and I’m not giving up on him now.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough...
I’ve wanted Dunn since the offseason, and he’s producing up to his predictable potential, so I’ll just leave it at that.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You are my BCB'er and personal hero for the day.
It’s pointless to lament what has taken place. Its done. Players are gone. New ones are here. And giving up on players who are on the field in cubby blue and are trying and have a history of playing good baseball is lame.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
Not to be the negative sounding board but the more this team flounders, the more it looks as though the individual players with a “history of playing good baseball”, are a step closer to being just historical references. There are a ton of guys with histories of playing good baseball sitting at home because of age, ineffectiveness or both. This could very well be signaling the end of some of these historical “good baseball players”.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
We never had a shot at Ibanez
He went way too early in the offseason. He’s also probably on steroids, but that’s a different matter altogether.
There were rumors from his camp...
That he wanted to play here. Saying “he’s probably on steroids” is slanderous and baseless really.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Like I said, that's a seperate issue
But I don’t call being on pace to hit over 50 homers when you’re 37 and you usually put in about 20 or so “baseless.” Each to his own.
You can have your suspicions...
But flat out calling a guy out like that is wrong.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Is this the same source that said Fox wasn't coming up anytime soon just hours before he was called up? lol
Anyway,
This team is just broken beyond repair. No amount of Derosa, Dunn, Edmonds, etc, etc is going to fix it. All of them with the possible exception of Lee, who is hitting for average but not power are having REALLY crappy years. Even Theriot and Fukudome who got off to good starts are horrible now.
Our only saving grace is that the division is NOT nearly as good as everyone thought at the beginning of the year. Who knows what will happen. But its not quite time to give up yet.
so adding a good hitter wouldn't fix it?
I’m sorry but your argument makes no sense
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh - I hear sometimes
that “they’re trying too hard.”
Do they think of this before they sign contracts in the tens of million of dollars?!
Hell no!
I am sick of hearing this for over 40 years.
You know, as a player, signing to play for the Cubs is going to be perhaps the biggest challenge in baseball!
You asked a rhetorical question.
But you are going to get a serious answer. No, they don’t think of it. All these guys have huge egos — they have to, in order to be professional athletes. Every single one of them, before he becomes a Cub, thinks, “I’m the guy who can handle this when the others couldn’t.”
Seriously. That’s the mindset. And unfortunately, 99% of them are wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not to belabor any points made above
But wasn’t it DeRo that specifically mentioned something like this? Something along the lines of how every guy who signs with the Cubs wants so badly to be a part of the team that finally ends the drought…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Who wouldn't wanna be?
You’d never buy a beer anywhere again with how many Cub fans there are everywhere.
I don’t fault guys for wanting to be the guy who wins. I just don’t want them to feel like they have to do it themselves.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
DeRo
also talked about the pressure during the season last year and the year before. He said at times, Wrigley was SO loud that he would put his glove to his face and scream into it to try and relieve the pressure he was feeling.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
The good news?
Cubs ranked #1 in MLB in starting pitching.
.240 BAA
.367 ERA
MAn – if only they had a few key hits in the last 10 days!
If these rumored "changes" result in ANY hitting...
… and also don’t mess with the pitching, we will be SET.
Seriously. We don’t even need everybody to come out of it. A Soriano hot streak and a Fox call up worth a run or two a game would be enough to win half these games in and of itself!
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish the Cubs would do a straight up
Soriano for Holliday swap. No way the A’s do it but who can’t dream.
bo$$
i would like a straight swap of Lou for Tito ( Francono)
and THAT is more likely to happen. It is ok to make some out of the box ideas but trading an underperforming player who will be making
almost 20 million a year to small ball ,small budget team for guy who is off the books this year is kind of silly.
I am pretty desperate. I wonder if Marshall who is almost the only roster player we CAN trade who might have SOME value, would bring
enough for a solid infield bench guy who could say actually get a sacrifice.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Put out an APB on Worf!
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I am afraid The Federation may have captured him.
I hear the Klingons may have committed a treaty violation.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Either that,
Or he was assimilated by the Borg.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Otherwise known as the Evil BCB ?
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Does it have those intestine-looking thins on its head?
’Cuz if so, man – I do not wanna be on his Christmas card list.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Soriano
Notice Soriano’s right foot after evey swing. It’s bailing out and causing his hips to open too much and too soon. He’s not in a good balanced position to even hit pitcher mistakes.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
wonder if he's compensating for his gimply knee still
he needs to sit or go on the DL and get healthy.
I love that he’s trying to play hurt, but this is getting really bad.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
at this rate, I'm afraid our changes will result in
25 pitchers on our roster
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
HAHAHA!
classic.
25 pitchers and NO position players! lol
Well, Zambrano is about our best hitter right now! Certainly better than 3 or 4 of the “everyday” position starters.
I'd take a lineup of 9 Z-level hitters at this point.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
how about 25 middle infielders
Hendry has ALWAYS had a boner for those
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't he have a hard on for outfilders a couple of years ago, too?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
So he has a hard on for infielders and outfielders
Yep, he just sucks. Christ.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said he sucked, just commenting
on the season when we had too many OF’s.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Wow
‘After today’s horrendous performance — 0-for-4 with two strikeouts, including nearly screwing himself into the ground in the 9th inning vs. Nathan — he is hitting .152/.282/.212 in June. ’
I haven’t played HS baseball since 1971. I would think that after I crapped my pants up at the plate, I could probably do .152/.282/.212 just by sticking my bat out there. Maybe if I had a full shield.
You didn't mention who 'himself' is...
… but i assume Dome?
And i have to doubt on your claim that you could hit .152/.282/.212… plenty of major league pitchers who see opposing major league pitching 3 times a week / rotation can’t hit that well.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
Reply fail.
Hand meet face. Meant for thermal54. Apologies.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Look no further than a starting three outfield that costs a collective $220 million plus for the reason why this is a .500 style ballclub playing .500 style baseball
Absolutely brutal. 79 wins is my prediction on the season. Hopefully by then Ricketts will finally have taken control and will fire Kenney, Hendry, Flieta, Wilken. And Piniella will go back home for good.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
400+ comments and finally...
A voice of reason. : /
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
The window of opportunity for this Cub team to have won something has passed
That’s the acknowledgement point good objective Cub fans need to make. It is time to bring on yet another iteration of a Cub rebuilding program. Tear this thing down to the studs and wait for some of these horendous contracts to come off the books. Then put Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, Ramirez and whoever else on the block and try to maximize return on your best and most tradeable players.
Hopefully Hendry’s successor will enact this very strategy. It is what is needed. Any good Cub fan understands that. The window to win has come and gone.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
The guy who you could trade...
… right now, who could bring a major league hitter here AND clear payroll space, is Rich Harden.
Harden’s not coming back — I think we can be assured of that — he’ll leave as a free agent. The Cub starting pitching has depth now; they did fine without him.
If you could get a ML hitter for Harden, do it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm comfortable enough with Marshall and Wells that I could live with this
IF we got a great player out of it. Who do you suggest we go after?
If they could get a young, talented middle infielder
who can really hit, I’d be for it.
Hey, whatever happened to that Brandon Wood guy?
DEJESUS!!!
I'd really like to trade for Freddy Sanchez
He may be 31, but he’s a very sound defender and a career .300 hitter with a batting title.
Actually...
isn’t Harden’s salary roughly the same as DeRo’s? What if we could send Harden to the Angels for Wood, then send some prospects to the Indians for DeRo?
DEJESUS!!!
There you go
make them take Miles too.
DEJESUS!!!
We need to trade Rich Harden for a rebuilding piece
A good young ballplayer / prospect with upside.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
Agreed on Harden
You’re right in stating he is doubtful to be coming back on a new contract. And yes, given that the wheels have come off this thing we call the 2009 Cubs I would trade Harden to the highest bidder. The Dodgers, Cardinals, Brewers, Angels, Tigers and Blue Jays would all presumably have interest.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
How much will you get for Harden ?
He is one sneeze away from being on the DL again and his value is only to a contending team. I would suggest that Marshall might bring more in return because he is off value to teams that are out of it and desperate to shed contracts ( Nats, Padres, Rockies, O’s etc). He would not bring a ton but he might get you more than Harden.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Harden would get a solid prospect from somebody
Say the Phillies, Mets or Dodgers for example.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
He probably would
but Marshall would get you an actual player you could use NOW for those of us who believe the can win now. Not a star mind you but perhaps in a package with one or more of our prospects someone pretty useful.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
But the point in trading Harden...
… isn’t the prospects, it’s clearing off the salary so you can add a hitter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think the level of the prospect
may depend on how desperate the other team is and the quality of any other pitchers that are available.
Maybe Harden has more value with Peavy and Bedard being hurt and essentially taken off the market?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
His value will go up if he gets a few BACK TO BACK effective starts
at this point his value is low because teams will not want to take that risk. The ultimate irony is that depending on how things play out Colorado might get more trading Marquis then the Cubs will trading Harden. He has a lower ERA and has of course pitched many more innings.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs
are only 3.5 games out, despite Bradley, Soriano, Soto and Fotenot hitting as bad as they possibly could, Ramirez out, Lee not hitting the first two months and Dome not hitting the last month.
There is too much track record for success from some of the guys struggling right now (namely Bradley and Soriano) for the Cubs not to get hot and pull out of this sooner or later.
The biggest problem I see is that the way this team is constructed, with so many backloaded contracts to aging vets, along with a (probably) frozen payroll, I don’t see how we could add an impact player to give us a boost/put us over the hump.
DEJESUS!!!
If I remember correctly, the year the Cards won the series
we were right in the race ONLY because no one was standing up and taking the division. Then we bottomed out, and the Cards won the Central by a few games. There’s no guarantee this team is suddenly going to get hot. It could get even colder, and one of the other teams could heat up.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
We lost close to 100 games that year
They put the towel in by July 1st.
Al
that’s not much of a source, if they won’t give you more than “something big or small involving the minors or majors may or may not happen tomorrow”. Weathermen have better scoops than that.
DEJESUS!!!
Is it time to move Soriano out of the leadoff spot? Not because he might hit better in the middle
but because right now, he’s an automatic out at the top? I’ve long said it was dumb to think that if you move Soriano into the 3 or 4 hole he’ll suddenly be able to hit better with RISP, but a move down to 6 or 7 might at least allow a few more runners on to begin an inning.
The guy is streaky, we all get that, so when the hell does his hot streak begin?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:47 PM CDT reply actions
It is possible that he never gets hot again. It's possible that his bat speed has decreased.
And he doesn’t seem to use have a lot of baseball smarts.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
that was my point, and why I said that it might be time to get the automatic out of the leadoff spot
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano's batting averages the past 3 years.
2007 .299
2008 .280
2009 .233 (so far)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
He should at least climb back up to .270-ish...
Before the season is over.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, hopefully. Unless he is in a real funk.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
No one here has been mentioning Jason Marquis....
So let’s see…Marquis is 8-4 with an ERA under 4, and is in 2nd place in the NL for most wins.
What did Jimbo get for him? Anyone remember? Last name starts with a V.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
I don't think anyone misses Marquis...
Plus, with his contract, we were really looking just to dump salary versus anything really in return.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish Jimbo would have gotten something besides Vizcaino for him
I’m not impressed with Jimbo’s off-season moves this year.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
The same Jason Marquis
everybody hated last year?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
You like using strong words like "hate".
Most people thought he was a good #5 starter. Not more than that. Jimbo probably paid him too much money, and that’s where some resentment came from. Sorta like Burnitz….
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
That's not too strong a word
for how a lot of people here felt about him. Quit the revisionist history.
I thought he was the best No. 5 starter in baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
he's referring to this quote from you
" What should the Cubs do?
Burn through their bullpen some more? I loath Marquis, but he needs to pitch at least two more innings."
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions
so you thought he was the best 5 starter in baseball, but
loathed him at the same time. Project much?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's time we consider this possibility:
NBF is Jim Hendry. :-)
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
Interesting concept!
OTOH, maybe NBF is actually the despised ump Bruce Froemming, and he’s doth protesting too much?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
he also likes using hyperbole like "everybody"
he’s the master of the strawman argument
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I plead temporary insanity
Marquis was the best No. 5 in baseball last year, IMHO, despite anything I said in the heat of the moment.
Some of you people are priceless.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I supported Marquis all last year
and you can go back and look at my posts.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Wins are the worst determination for a pitcher you could use
But at least Marquis could hit….
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
So insightful
Our starting pitching is our biggest problem right now. It’s totally ridiculous we got rid of perhaps the least popular and highest paid 5th starter in baseball.
Why the hell would we mention Jason Marquis right now?
Page me when Marquis puts together a full season
pitching well. That’s his bugaboo, he pitches well for part of the season and then goes into the tank.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
I think anyone who’s bringing up how well Marquis is doing and even remotely suggesting we shouldn’t have traded him has not followed the Cubs this year at all.
No one is suggesting we shouldn't have traded Marquis.
I’m not too impressed with what we got for him. That’s all.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
My former college classmate...
now interviewing Hendry at the CWS. BOOOOOOOOOOOO
Visit bloggingthebracket.com, SBNation's bracketology/hoops rambling site!
by Chris Dobbertean on Jun 13, 2009 8:48 PM CDT reply actions
why is Jim at the CWS?
does anyone in this organization give a crap?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I was on the phone...
but I think he was there to see a draft pick. He also goes every year apparently, since he lived there for 10 years.
Visit bloggingthebracket.com, SBNation's bracketology/hoops rambling site!
by Chris Dobbertean on Jun 13, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't we just draft an LSU player pretty high?
I would imagine he’s taking a look at him.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
second round, I think.
naturally, he’s a middle infielder…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
b/c the CWS is awesome
way more interesting the march, imho.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Jim Hendry is at the College World Series
So no changes imminent?
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
If he can do deals...
from a hospital bed, I’m pretty sure he can use his cell phone while at a baseball game. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 13, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Sez a lot about cub MGT......
HIS SCOUTS should be at the CWS……NOT him….til thats fixed…tyhe Cubs won’t be fixed
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
Its not the 80s
Just b/c he’s in Omaha doesn’t mean he’s not “working” to improve the team.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Holy Crap! This thread needs a "JUMP" to an overflow thread.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
Just wait 'til SWL shows up and starts posting pictures
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Not Juan, but how about the "other leadoff hitter" we got late in 2003? Someone like him....?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Some thoughts
DeRosa;
The pre-occupation here is about having 3 injury prone players in Rammy, Sori and Bradley without suitable backups. All 3 of these players have spent down time the last 2 seasons due to leg problems. And when you expect to get most of your run production from these 3 players you better have quality backups. DeRosa’s versatility would have solved a lot of this.
Theriot
Has joined the the slumping bats ever since his brief flurry of new found power. He’s gotten away from his opposite field line drive swing which would have probably won us today’s game a month ago. he needs to get back to it or he has lost what got him here.
Soriano
Needs to be moved down, he just does. How could he do worse than he’s doing? Having a leadoff hitter swinging widly and refusing to take walks sets the wrong tone. Just like the playoffs. We don’t have a true leadoff hitter but I think I’d put Dome there. At least he takes walks.
Pitching
Until the bats pick up we are going to have to win most games with pitching so I would play Blanco at 2nd and bench or release Miles. His bat isn’t that much better than Blanco anyway.
Note on Dempster
People have speculated on here he might get traded or suggested it.
People might have forgotten that Ryan Dempster has a very ill newborn. I think the Cubs organization respects him too much to trade him to a new city in these tough times.
I would be disgusted with the Cubs if they did that without his consensus.
Just stating my 2 cents on trading a starter. I think Al’s right and it will be Rich Harden if they trade someone.
Lou Piniella mentioned on the pre-game show
that Scales was sent down due to an injury to a bullpen pitcher. I was wondering who that pitcher might be. I thought it might be Guzman. Has anyone heard who the injured pitcher is?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:13 PM CDT reply actions
horrib... i mean heilman?
no, i have no idea.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
According to the Trib
Lou said a couple of the pitchers (relievers, presumably) have been “a little tender.” Whatever that means.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
love it?
you’ve got it wrong…. i don’t “love” it unless its a sign that Pineilla is understanding the abuse he’s caused
i’d LOVE IT if the manager could use the bullpen appropriately and not damage valuable arms
it would just seem to be another piece of evidence which you can choose to turn a blind eye to
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
huh?
why send down a position player for an injured bullpen pitcher? If that bullpen pitcher goes on the DL, there’s room for them.
I thought Scales went down because Harden came back.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Scales could come back tomorrow then?
this is weird..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
No, Scales was sent down and Harden was activated
Lou was responding to why they’re going with 13 pitchers for now.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I would guess that the injured player is
only expected to miss a couple of games with a minor injury. If you put a player on the DL, you lose them for 15 days. That’s why I thought it might be Guzman as he’s become an integral part of the bullpen.
If someone like Patton had a minor injury, I’d think they’d use that as an excuse to put him on the DL.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Cubs are handlingly the Ramirez situation similar to that of the Lee injury in 2006
I remember the Cubs waiting a good period of time to find an adequate replacement for Lee, finally getting Nevin for Hairston; but, the damage had already been done and Nevin neither was productive nor the best option available. I see this happening for the Cubs. Either we don’t make another acquisition or Freel was our Nevin, IMO.
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
That season
was basically done at this point. And those players weren’t as good as these players are. Remember the starting pitching staff? It was Zambrano and a bunch of stiffs (including Marmol).
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, true, but the situation is being handled the same you can obviously tell
Trying to patch the position with internal players that aren’t major league quality instead of searching for other options
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
You're exactly right
The Cubs waited as long as they did to acquire Nevin because, if they had done it earlier (closer to when Lee first went down), they were going to have to take on more of his salary than they wanted to. By the time they did pull off the trade, they’d dug themselves into a huge hole.
I had a bad feeling, when A-Ram first went down, that we might be seeing history repeat itself.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 13, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sure they have been searching for other options
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Whoops
but if you’re dealing from a position of weakness, there isn’t much you can do.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes
There may not be an outside option that’s possible. If nobody wants to trade with you or wants too much, there isn’t much you can do.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I just noticed that you folks posting from Chicago and points East are really diehards
up at 1 in the morning on a Sunday, still discussing this. Bravo/Brava.
For me, I’m going to bed. Back to the slat mine in the morning.
G’night all. Sweet dreams of a Cubs victory tomorrow (Sunday).
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
sweet dreams indeed.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 14, 2009 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Less die hard
and more insomniac. :-P
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
2009 Crosstown Classic, Part I
Rotation plans: In the upcoming series against the White Sox, Lou Piniella said the Cubs will pitch Carlos Zambrano, Randy Wells and Ryan Dempster. That gives Dempster an extra day of rest. He pitched last Thursday at Houston, and Wells opened against the Twins on Friday.
Match-ups for the first series against the Cubs at Wrigley.
Tuesday: Danks vs. Zambrano
Wednesday: Floyd vs Wells
Thursday: Richard vs. Dempster
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I read that it might be Contreras on Thursday.
Personally,
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 14, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Contreras has pitched extremely well (in his last 2 games).
In a span of two starts, Jose Contreras has ascended from fighting to regain a permanent spot in the White Sox’s rotation to receiving special treatment.
The Sox are considering moving up Contreras’ next start to Thursday at Wrigley Field against the Cubs after he pitched eight scoreless innings Saturday for the second consecutive outing in a 7-1 victory over Milwaukee.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Deep Goat wasn't kidding about those changes
Looks like the Cubs are holding tryouts this morning to try and fix this offense
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That looks like Soriano :-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Here's...
one of them (well, two technically).
:)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 14, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
hahaha.
That’s awesome. Adding a tee might make it easier for us to at least put the ball in play. Though knowing us right now, we’d all just hit it about 7 inches down and send rubber flying further than the ball.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 14, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
not with
the long pants it’s not. Is it Lee?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 14, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Time off
Maybe, this “days off” theory is being misconstrued. Perhaps Lou need to get away for awhile. Go fishing or golfing – whatever his bag is. Trammell and Rothschild couldn’t do much worse. Lou needs to get his fire back. Without it, the Cubs don’t have a chance.
Best way to do that is to bump an ump
And as everyone has been noting, Lou’s not exactly in tantrum-throwing mode at the moment.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
When it comes to DeRosa
Is everyone remembering that in 2008 they tried to replace him with Brian Roberts?
There had to be an underlying reason for the trade since it seemed as if for 2 years they wanted to get rid of him?
He was a big fan favorite for the crowd but maybe he was difficult with management? Something that usually isn’t revealed….
Roberts...
Was a target because he was a legit leadoff man that this team needed (still needs), had speed and is an excellent base stealing threat. I think it was just coincidence that he played in DeRo’s spot.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 14, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
If anyone else is watching those Wrigley cams...
Am I wrong in thinking that Zambrano is taking ground balls at short along with some other guys right now? I assume he’s just screwing around (I hope :)) Though that kind of wastes the other guys time…Oh well. I guess fun can’t hurt.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 14, 2009 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
I also notice that Aramis is taking some grounders...
That’s a good sign.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 14, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
He was taking some down in Houston, too
Easy stuff, but he was smiling as he did it. I was encouraged, to say the least.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
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