Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before: Cubs Bats Impotent In 2-0 Loss To Twins
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:04 PM CDT
in Recaps
763 comments
Instead of a simple recounting of today's game, I'm going to start this recap with some information from Deep Goat.
Word is that there may be some "changes" as soon as tomorrow. I don't know the nature of the "changes" -- could be anything from trades to minor league/major league roster moves to changes in the coaching staff (if it were up to my friend Phil, he'd fire Gerald Perry, but I don't think that's going to happen; he said "Book it", but remember he also said "Book it" to Alfonso Soriano starting at 2B today and that didn't happen).
Speculate away; I only have the word that "changes" are coming.
Whatever they do, I hope it doesn't involve the pitching staff, because today the staff was again outstanding. Rich Harden returned from the DL and really made only one significant mistake, the pitch that Jason Kubel deposited on Sheffield (and yes, this time I'm sure it made the street, confirmed by ballhawk). Otherwise three dinky little singles resulted in the Twins' other run in a 2-0 Cubs shutout loss to Minnesota, their fourth loss in a row and the fifth time they have been shut out this year.
The bullpen also kept the game close; Jose Ascanio, Sean Marshall (why is Marshall being used in a close game when he could be useful in extra innings?) and Kevin Gregg threw three innings of hitless ball, but the Twins' pitchers matched it. The Cubs made Anthony Swarzak look like Greg Maddux today; he had Cub hitters off-balance all day, getting four called strikeouts (out of six total K's) and otherwise getting them to beat the ball into the ground. Matt Guerrier and Joe Nathan finished up; when Derrek Lee's line drive went off Joe Crede's glove in the last of the ninth, I thought, "At last, a break and a bit of luck!", but despite having the tying run in scoring position with one out, Kosuke Fukudome and Ryan Theriot couldn't bring the runners home.
Kosuke Fukudome. Let's talk about Dome, who is having exactly the same season he had last year -- two good months and then falling off the table. After today's horrendous performance -- 0-for-4 with two strikeouts, including nearly screwing himself into the ground in the 9th inning vs. Nathan -- he is hitting .152/.282/.212 in June. Yes, that's not a misprint -- that's a .212 slugging percentage. At this point Fukudome's best position is probably "bench"; send Reed Johnson out there and let him play CF for a week or so. Alfonso Soriano, down to .233 and hitting nearly as poorly as Fukudome this month (.174/.269/.370), needs a day off. I'd suggest giving him tomorrow off and starting Micah Hoffpauir in LF; after tomorrow the Cubs don't play till Tuesday night, which would give Soriano three full days to rest.
In his postgame remarks Lou seemed like his brain was waterlogged from the moderate rain that delayed the start of today's game by 32 minutes. His answers to the usual questions ranged from, "What do you want me to do?" to "I don't want to talk about that." Not exactly what we've come to expect from the guy who used to snap at reporters, "You saw the damn game!" Lou's losing it and the whole team is suffering, partly as a result. After today's pitching performance the team ERA sits at 3.87, still fourth in the NL but just behind the Reds at 3.85. Keep that up and many games will be won.
Finally, at this writing the Brewers are losing to the White Sox 6-0; if that holds up the Cubs remain only 3.5 games behind (two in the loss column). It's still anyone's division. Keep the faith.
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Keep the faith indeed.
It’s about all we’ve got at this point.
by Emelie on Jun 13, 2009 4:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I also have
a lot of frustration… that’s not nothing
"This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outta here." --Michael Scott
by Reddevil on Jun 13, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
I’ll be interested in what the changes are going to be, but I fear it may be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I hope that Piniella is at least considering sitting Soriano for a couple of days.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about for a long while?
You can’t continue to play with hitters that refuse to change their approach. Ever.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to keep the faith...
But it’s just so hard with this offense. I hope Deep Goat is right and there are some changes made, at this point something has to be done. And what the hell is it about June that sends Dome spiraling (pun intended) into suckville?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dome
is just not that good, and we are stuck with him. What a shame.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's shown the...
Skills and tools to be a good player for two months, could it be a mental thing that causes him to falter? I just don’t get it.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ump today
seemed to have a bizarre strikezone. Santo said that Dome was “jittery” at the plate, and looked like he was “trying to find himself”. He’s not keeping his shoulder down long enough.
I say we fly his hitting coach back here now, and not wait till July.
I think he gets nervous just like any other player does when the team as a whole isn’t hitting well, and he presses. It’s no different than anyone else, he’s just got a distinctive swing when he does it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's been our best hitter this season....
i understand we’re judging the recent time more harshly than the total season because of last year’s fall-off but Dome really is focusing on the wrong point of the equation
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome
11 for 66 since May 30th, best hitter. I guess you could say that, because the team has been so horrible. Guess you can pick someone, but Dome looks like he will fall into the same situation like last year. He looks like a 10Million liability to me.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DLee has had a good May and June
And Soto believe it or not had solid hitting May. Not in June…
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging Fukudome is tricky...
He had an awesome April and a pretty productive May. But he has slumped terribly in June. The question is whether this is a repeat of last year, or just a slump. But are very real possibilities.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's good after consecutive days off
He slumped after Johnson started for like 5 days I feel like.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this...
I had a bad feeling he would cool down after that.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
apparently he's slumped too
since his Japanese hitting coach returned to the island a couple of weeks. Least that’s what I’ve heard, and his form certainly suffered for it.
by Emelie on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with his contract
he should be able to pay to keep the hitting coach here all season
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could Al
WHY would Lou/Hendry change 40% of a 97 win team, sign a player like Bradley (problems), NOT re-sign Wood and DeRosa, etc……
by questdoc on Jun 13, 2009 4:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is that saying about hindsight...?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 13, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a lot of us knew at the time before it became hindsight
It’s just been a given..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on Jun 13, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they made changes
because they won 0 games in the postseason?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
A lot of us said this at the beginning of the season.
wccubfan
by wccubfan on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a lot of good
that 97-win team did last postseason, did it?
Most of the key players from that team are on this one. Lack of Wood and the beloved almighty one aren’t why this team is scuffling.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa would help.
Now, I know this is going to start off a firestorm of you calling me a “DeRomantic”, but the fact is, having him at 2B right now instead of Scales/Miles/the beer vendor, or at 3B with Fontenot at 2B, would be far better than what we’ve had since Ramirez went down.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't make much of a difference
when virtually everbody else is scuffling, Al.
That series against the Indians next weekend is going to be unbearable.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's to say whether one guy might not have made a difference?
All I’m saying is that those of us who would like DeRosa back are NOT saying that for sentimental reasons.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the one guy is A-Rod, that's one thing
I don’t think DeRo is going to be confused with A-Rod anytime soon. Except, perhaps, in the minds of some delusional fans.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one's called him
“the best ever” at least not that I’ve seen…
All everyone seems to be saying is “Man, that deal looks bad right now”.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone is saying that.
All we’re saying is that a guy with his versatility could have helped this team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if everybody was playing according to specs,
even with Ramirez out, the point would be moot.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
But they’re not, which is why changes are likely coming.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be interested to see what (if any) moves are made...
and what impact said moves will have. I have trouble seeing much that can be added or subtracted to make a real difference.
Perhaps some tweaking of the bullpen? Benching Fukudome for a bit? I can’t see Piniella actually moving Soriano back to the infield.
But ultimately, it comes down to the guys on the field producing. In April, Soriano, Ramirez and Fukudome were hitting but nobody else. In May, Lee, Theriot and Fukudome were hitting. In June, it seems to be just Lee (with occasional signs of life from Soto and Fontenot).
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope
miles is gone
patton is gone
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just not sure either move will make a big difference...
Nobody within the organization is going to wildly improve the team’s fortunes in place of those guys.
Perhaps if Fox was called up and somehow proved he could play 3B, it could have an impact. But the options just seem limited.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously?
patton is the reason we can’t score?
let’s replace him with a really expensive guy that used to be kinda good.
that’s how we ended up with miles.
if you want to dl patton until one of the other pitchers gets hurt, that isn’t foolish. but it would be really shortsighted to jettison a future cheap arm just ’cuz we only have two guys that can hit.
by tim815 on Jun 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patton may not be the problem with the offense
but he’s taking up a roster spot that another hitter could be using(Fox) and Lou has shown time and time again that he doesn’t trust him and will only put him in if he absolutely have to. This team isn’t good enough to play with 24 guys
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nor is it good enough to win
with 26 or
27 if it can’t hit
by tim815 on Jun 13, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is why we need 13 pitchers less than we do 13 hitters
thus Patton is expendable
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please tell me where this doesn't fit in the line up?
Mark DeRosa 60 238 41 66 11 0 10 107 42 24 50 0 1 .277 .348 .450 .798
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KC, not you, too
It’s like I’ve walked into a scene from “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you see what's happened?
You’ve railed on this so much that now people are trying to explain to you how his output would help the Cubs’ offense.
Honestly, you really would be better off just letting this drop.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NBF - it's called "sunk cost". The trade is history.
Forget for a moment the trade ever happened. Focus instead on the present where the Cubs offense is in triage, and 3B is probably its biggest gaping wound. If you wanted to heal that wound, do you not see that Mark DeRosa fills the bill very well? He plays the position, his numbers are decent, he has a good history with the club (i.e. not going to be a clubhouse cancer) and Indians are going nowhere. Oh, and once ARam comes back, DeRosa has the versatility to contribute elsewhere.
On paper it makes pretty good sense, so why wouldn’t it make sense to pursue it further? There’s no romance here, just common sense. What part of that don’t you get?
Now I would readily agree that there are other possible answers out there. So if you just can’t stomach the thought of DeRosa back in a Cubs uniform, then instead of harping on your so-called DeRomantics (which btw, I wish you would identify. Your recent posts have taken on a KOW-like “some people say” tendency. So far I have only seen logical posts from Al, Allie, Southern, Dartmouth, CubsBullsBears, Shanghai, KC and myself to name several), howsabout offering up some other solutions?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 14, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's the greatest player on earth
and will make everything better in Cubbieland. I have no doubt. You’ve all convinced me.
What a pathetic waste of time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, Ahab
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I’m finally coming out of “shock”, since this happened. Even the TV gurus siad that the Cubs were not going to be as good a team as last year, because of the trades.. I don’t think it’s “hindsight”. So many knowledgeable people (Leave Hendry out of the list) couldn’t be that wrong.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This franchise
needs a wake-up call. For years the front office has tried to fill their holes with expensive FAs, with not much success at all. Yet, they keep on truckin’ along with the same philosophy that has failed them season after season. How about emulating franshises that have won by building from within? It doesn’t matter anyway, cause they have guys like Bradley, Sori, Lee, and Fukudome bogging down their salary structure. Way to have some foresight Jim!!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It might happen if/when the ownership situation is resolved
Depending on how emboldened the new owner feels, the team of Kenney/Hendry/Piniella could be swept out and replaced by a whole new regime that would have the courage and (hopefully) the intelligence to undertake a proper rebuilding. Which I wouldn’t necessarily mind this because I think a younger, fresher presence in charge of things is ultimately needed.
The reliance on veteran FAs started with Soriano. Keep in mind that it happened at a time when the Cubs were seeking instant credibility after years of Andy MacPhail’s super-conservative approach. And because John McDonough was intent on righting the ship as quick as possible, he elected to authorize spending on free agents instead of trading for prospects and gradually improving the team for the long-term.
Unfortunately those signings have come with downsides. Soriano is a streaky hitter and an interesting fielder. Lee’s extension included an NTC. Dome is again having problem sustaining success past the month of May. Bradley has a history of injuries and anger issues. Not to mention the lengthy years and salary bumps of the other contracts on the roster.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without much success?!?!
Playoffs two years in a row for the first time since forever.
97 wins and the best offense in the National League last year.
That is way more success than I am used to with the Cubs.
by vonde6 on Jun 14, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t get too used to it, vonde 6. It sure isn’t going to happen again, this year!
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, this was a painful game.
I don’t care how much we are paying players, if they aren’t performing, they need to sit or go to the minors. Sending Fox and Scales down after the way they have performed is ludicrous. I’m not sure if Lou’s post-game give-up is the chicken or the egg. The players appear lackluster and Bradley’s shrugging off of his multiple boneheaded plays yesterday is offensive, and should offend any true Cubs fan. I am frustrated. Will be there next Saturday and Sunday and am hoping these guys find a little fire by then.
On the bright side, I could not be more admiring of the pitching staff, which has stepped up and offered consistency when it would be possible to feel down. Also, Pat Hughes gave your By the Numbers book a shout-out, naming you and the other authors and recommending that people buy it.
by dfrancon on Jun 13, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
P.S. Think we can kidnap DeRo and Woody back while they're in town next weekend?
by dfrancon on Jun 13, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd vote for that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's kidnap
every fan who keeps pining for them instead. And send them far, far away.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets send away fans
who insist nothing is wrong and can’t understand team chemistry
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have some bad news for you
You are about the only one here who feels this way. 10,000 posts from you saying otherwise is not going to change anyone’s opinion. Dero would be an upgrade over what we have now. The end. Maybe it wouldn’t make the team win the division but it would be a better team than currently constructed. Especially when Aram gets back.
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think dude has ever debated that DeRo is better than our current 2B options...
… i think he’s taking issue with the lamenting whats done, or the idea that we should get him back when there has been no indication that either side is actually interested in that.
I understand the sentiment. He’s like the hot girlfriend we dumped for an even HOTTER girl, but the hotter girl turned out to be a jerk and the original decided to cut her hair, work out twice as hard and hit 11 points over the league average at her position. Whoops.
The whole “bring him back” thing is a bit suspect to me, though. Do we know he’d WANT to come back after we dumped him (yes, i’m seriously inquiring if there is knowledge of the terms he left on)? What would we have to give up to get him, being that his stats are ALL up over last season at this point? Its all very abstract and remote.
Until there is some indication we could actually get him back, its much more productive to consider the problems the players who are actually on our roster are having. There is a happy place between the “DeRomantics” and NBF’s position.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has actually...
… been some internal discussion at the Cubs about bringing him back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one can only hope that is true..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on Jun 13, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about bringing him back...
MORON AKA Jim Hendry…..didn’t want to deal with “contract year” issues…….what he failed to realize is … PLAY IT OUT……. “good players” AKA “winners” …like to show off in their contract years……… it’s a problem this years Cubs need…..
It was a no lose for MORON……KEEP DeRosa…..he has a good year…and hes too expensive …let him go….. he has a “OK” year….oh well … don’t resign him…..
Meanwhile….point me out some Cubs w/ stats like this:
Mark DeRosa 60 238 41 66 11 0 10 107 42 24 50 0 1 .277 .348 .450 .798
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calling someone a derogatory name doesn't help your argument.
In fact, you lose credibility by calling someone names instead of using facts to make an argument.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 14, 2009 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim....
The days of NCAA baseball at creighton are over….
And if thts not how you feel….please quit NOW
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what you're talking about.
What does the state of Creighton baseball have to do with the 2009 Cubs, Jim Hendry or Mark DeRosa?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 14, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
....
1. Moron is “vaguely” a derogotory term.
2. My dissatisfaction of Mr. Hendry’s moves diddn’t magicaly appear in my head yesterday.
3. Jim Hendry was Creightons AD just b4 becomming McFail’s Asst. w/ the Cubs…..
It’s sorta u know…an underhanded insult that he’s in kinda over his head………
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess what I was trying to say
is that he isn’t going to change anyone’s mind no matter how many times he tells us to quit thinking that way.
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so...
… but you clearly aren’t gonna convince NBF to stop beating the drum on the other side. And you both have some valid points. So… agree to disagree?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the plug...
… did anyone here record the game? If so, could you clip out the audio and send me a .mp3 clip of it? Kasey is going to do that, but he’s out of town this week, and I’d love to have it now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lmao
don’t you hate when that happens?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So many spots for a TWSS
So little time
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Clutch 16: Where did you find that Charlie Root quote. I’ve never seen it before, but I love it!
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I picked that particular quote off the 'net somewhere
However, Root always disputed the story of the called shot, and said the same thing in different ways. The one which Wikipedia documents here from “Root for the Cubs” goes:
“Ruth did not point at the fence before he swung. If he had made a gesture like that, well, anybody who knows me knows that Ruth would have ended up on his ass. The legend didn’t get started until later.”
Ruth said, variously, that he did or did not call the shot. Root (and many historians) believed that the gesture was intended for the Cubs bench, who had been razzing him all game long. Ruth gave as good as he got, so he was yapping right back, probably with an added bat motion.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 14, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Root For The Cubs" is an excellent read
After reading Al’s synopsis here on BCB I bought a copy and took it with me on vacation last month. Very entertaining and insightful! It’s a look back at the 1929 team with Charlie Root’s season as the main arc of the book.
Charlie Root’s daughter, Della Root Arnold, contributed lots of photos and anecdotes about her parents. It was as much fun to read about Dorothy Root (Charlie’s wife) as Charlie – she was quite the little spitfire.
by CaliCub on Jun 14, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanx CaliCub: Will check it out on ebay.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say what was more fun today
Following the game (not broadcast here of course) on the computer or a crazy fight between my neighbors in which the police came twice in one hour and I think they are back.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The results of the fight
were probably unpredictable. Regrettably, the game was never in doubt.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is where I make a bad joke
about your nieghbors having more punch than the Cub bats…
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jun 13, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Count it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Changes?
What can you do when your whole lineup besides Lee is not hitting. There is no one at AAA that can help this team. Trades? who? Anyone want Dome’s contract? How about Miles? 5 years on Soriano’s contract, anyone? Please someone take Milton, uh, no thanks.
Call me pessimistic at this point, but I can not see this team turning it around offensively.
You get rid of Blanco, Edmonds, Wood, DeRosa and add Gathright, Bako, Miles, and Bradley, and Gregg this is what it is. Granted payroll had to be shaved, but to add these pieces was poorly put to together.
Hey the players have to get it done, but for 25 games now this offense has been horrible. I can see a week or 10 games of this but a month?
To me Lou needs to go, unfortunately that is not going to happen. This team is so tight, it is not funny, change is needed in leadership.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Payroll actually increased.
We were one of only 3 teams, I believe, that increased our payroll.
It pains me to say, but I’m starting to realize that I agree with your comment regarding Lou. Some of his moves lately have been bizarre. He just doesn’t seem into it.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 13, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All-star break
If Lou hasn’t turned this losing culture around by then, he should certainly be fired. It’s pretty sad that the Cubs won’t be able to trade anyone at the deadline; all their players that are underperforming have unmovable contracts. So much for having a backup plan Lou and Jim!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
If not having Blanco, Edmonds, Wood and DeRosa are the reason this team is in the tank, it wasn’t that good in the first place.
I realize tough times cause emotional reactions rather than rational ones, but pull it together.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget about Blanco, Edmonds & Wood for a moment.
This has nothing to do with “emotional reactions” and everything to do with the fact that Mark DeRosa is a useful, versatile baseball player who produces on the field.
I would suggest that it is YOU who is having the “emotional reaction” with your knee-jerk posts every time someone mentions his name.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, Al,
when his name is mentioned almost every day, almost non-stop, that’s kind of what happens.
I’m sorry if you’re greatly offended by my reaction to it, but I’d say the constant bedwetting about him is misguided and bordering on childish. Appropriate, I guess, for the most neurotic fan base in professional sports.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said above...
… I think you mischaracterize the desire of some of us to have DeRosa. It has nothing to do with sentiment and everything to do with production.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps your view is that way, Al,
but I’d suggest a lot of people’s isn’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I dunno.
What say the rest of you who want DeRosa back?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
production and flexibility
kerry was about sentimentality (mostly)
derosa was about the production and the return via trade (which was AWFUL for a guy going to be Type A)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
Kevin Gregg has actually done a decent job, especially recently.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Initially it was probably sentiment...
But now with no backup 3rd baseman, and lack of versatility, we need what he can provide… which is a solid bat and above-average defense at a number of positions.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want him back
I thought it was a dumb trade the day it happened. His flexibility and production has not been replaced by any stretch of the imagination.
Kerry was my favorite Cub, so I have to be honest that a portion of my dislike of the trade was emotional. But, I also thought that they didn’t upgrade by the trade. Sure, he has a history of injury, but I felt that he had turned the corner and was a reliable pitcher.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOTTA AGREE WITH BIG JOHN........
I think both Wood and DeRo were a loss for this ball club…..Only History will so show us how much,,,,,This club has to get back on it’s feet…..Lou has a mess on his hannd…..
by cubs north on Jun 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely versatility and production...
Granted, I don’t think he’d be a savior. But he’d bump Fontenot back to 2B and cover up that sub-.600 OPS from 2B this year.
I’d really take any capable-hitting 3B. DeRosa just happens to be an obvious example because he was here last year.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even without the greatest Cub ever,
this team still should be much better than it’s played.
DeRosa had a career year, is 34-35 years old and not likely to replicate those numbers. I don’t blame Hendry for trading him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's replicating them right now
once you adjust for league
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Not likely"
What about that is difficult to understand? And will he keep it up?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he posted
practically the same numbers for 3 years running with improving peripherals, what wasn’t likely about it?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not getting any younger,
for one thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a 1 year deal
not 3 or 4… expecting his production to be similar for 1 year was actually quite likely
it would have been unlikely for him to just fall off the table like you seem to suggest
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
He would make virtually NO difference on the current team. Unless he has some secret potion that will make six-seven other guys swing the bats better.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, he might
Clearly something is lacking in the team clubhouse. I’m not saying DeRosa would instantly turn six-seven guys into Silver Sluggers, but he (or someone like him) could very well be the spark that could jumpstart 2 or 3 of the underachievers.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was OK with the DeRo move in the offseason
For the reasons you cite — he is getting old, and the Cubs needed to free some salary. However much I liked him — and despite the real value of a multi-position, good-hitting player like DeRo — it is not insane to unload an aging, expensive player after a career year.
That said, dropping a decent bat into the weak spots of this lineup — 3B or 2B — might have a ‘relaxation effect’ that could really change things. Team hitting is weird, with as much to do with psychology as technique, and right now our team sphincters are locked-up. DeRo — or any other guy or two that could come here and produce a few hits — could change the mindset. (And that’s why we could not afford to send down Fox, one of the few working bats.)
Losing ARam was far bigger than ARam’s bat alone for similar reasons in that it took a first-class bat out of a borderline set of hitters; The hitting then collapsed. But something has to change, or we will hit a lot worse that we should for the whole year.
by cubmudgeon on Jun 14, 2009 6:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What made no sense to me about it was
The players they got back weren’t going to help the Cubs win now. It was an attempt to stock the farm system, which is only necessary because they obviously don’t know how to build it from within.
Pretty unusual for a team with championship aspirations to make a trade for the future.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So damned if you do,
damned if you don’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't either
I wish we’d gotten more for him, but I understood and didn’t hate the trade.
But right now, with everyone playing so poorly, the holes DeRosa could be filling look more glaring than they would be everyone were playing up to their career numbers.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to be the only one saying "Greatest Cub Ever"
Perhaps you’re the DeRomantic?
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
The way people talk about him, here and elsewhere, the name fits perfectly.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
once again
presented evidence above that it was about production (from multiple users) and you choose to ignore it
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get over it
Trading him was not a bad idea, and he isn’t coming back.
Like I said, next weekend’s games are going to be unbearable, with all the gnashing of teeth and wailing about DeRo the Hero.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
get over what?
you’re the one being proven incorrect with your exaggeration and refusing to let go
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Refusing to let it go?
A bunch of pots are calling the kettle black, evidently.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your the one who keeps bringing him up
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What will you say if he is back on the team this year?
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, for one thing,
I’ll be stunned.
Of course, if he is, I hope he does well. But I suspect you and many others would be disappointed.
I’m pretty sure this fervor would not take place among any other fan base in baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be so sure about that.
In a similar situation, I’m guessing a lot of teams’ fans would like to have a productive player, dumped for no apparently good reason, back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must say
I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. Pretty pathetic.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then why don't you go cheer....
for another team!!!!
Thank You.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 13, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you have to love DeRosa
or find another team?
I think I’ll appreciate how DeRosa played for the Cubs while still focusing on the current club, thanks.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say a word about DeRo!
I think the pressure is getting to ya.
Maybe take a break from this board for a few days…er, I mean weeks.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 13, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
you should take a permanent one.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just looking for....
BETTER than the 13th best offense in th NL
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You wildy misrepresent people's views on DeRosa...
I’m sorry that you can’t seem to grasp the real reason people would prefer DeRosa (or some other capable hitting utility option).
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then let's hear about
some of those other options, shall we?
By and large, in the general Cubs fan community, I don’t think I"m misrepresenting a thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the "general cub fan community"
IS acting the way you’re thinking
but those HERE aren’t. Taking their heads off doesn’t make sense.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not taking their heads off
It’s just a waste of energy at this point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, you are...
based on the discussion in this thread.
We’ve gone through this before. I’m not in the mood to repeat the same thing over again. You’re a broken record.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As are you
So quit replying to my posts. Here and elsewhere.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll keep replying to whom I choose...
I’m not the one belittling other people’s posts.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's keep the sniping out of it.
OK?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're the one
Who sees fit to reply to anyone who expresses any wish for having back a good hitting 2B/3B by calling them illogical and suggesting that it doesn’t make a difference to the team because everyone else is sucking. How can you say that? You can’t tell me that sending DeRo up there instead of Fuk tonight might not have resulted in a tie game or at least a run. You can’t say that because you, just like the rest of us, have no idea what would happen in that situation. We’re basing our lamentations on that trade on the fact that DeRo’s stats (this year and last) are above and beyond our current 2B options… yet, you ignore this evidence and assume we’re all just crazy emotional fans who don’t understand baseball.
by hmlee on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And here comes
the romanticism. Right on cue.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not think that word means
what you think it does.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allie, I think the definition of it
is extremely apropos.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce
Don’t let the one-man debunking of DeRosa dictate all your posts. You have many other good things to say and lots of other perspectives to share. Be the bigger guy and let it go.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good advice, CaliCub
It’s just been going on since Opening Day, and I should just let them rant. I’ll try to restrain myself form now on.
I guess this means I won’t be joining the crowd of Cubs fans at O’Hare next Thursday night to welcome the Indians’ plane and the return of their hero.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And thank you
for your kind words.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're off base here
I agree with a lot of what you say, but you’re taking this to a far more ridiculous extreme than what you are accusing others of doing.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the subject
keeps coming up, over and over agian.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, ignore it then.
You’ve got some kind of misplaced frustration over this. No one is saying he was the greatest Cub ever, just that he would have helped. Do you really think that’s not true?
I agree that he’s not coming back. I agree that they’ve got what they’ve got. But, I’d rather hear, “we should have kept DeRosa” than “Crap, the season’s over.”
You’d feel better if you dropped the crusade. And I think what’s going to happen, unfortunately, is people are going to start to miss valid points that you have because of the tone that you’re taking lately regarding this issue.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm one of the few
Who also believe that having Derosa wouldn’t amount to much with the way this team hits. But yes its a dead horse and we are in the minority.
by jeff_pico on Jun 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your reply to my
post was actually the thing that was right on cue. Actually, I think it might be a record for you. 60 seconds flat.
by hmlee on Jun 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have never left...
I’m not into man crushes. I personally just felt that the Cubs were basically paying double for that production by signing Milton Bradley instead, just to say the team was more left-handed.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for me it's production
he’s a likable guy, to be sure, but I’m with you, Al, on the versatility front.
by Emelie on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't DeRosa per se, it was the lack of a formidable replacement
Had the Cubs signed Orlando Hudson or dealt for The Oriole That Must Not Be Named, they’d be better off than with the dynamic duo of Miles and Scales. Or if a more creative means of payroll management were used, then the Greatest Cub Ever could have stayed and helped keep things afloat in the wake of the ARam injury.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa added valuable diversity
at almost every position. The additions of Miles and Hill have proven to be terrible decisions. We ended up moving a platoon 2B to full time 3B and caused both 3B and 2B to be subprime. We have the same problem with Fukudome and only now is Bradley seeming to strike the ball. DeRosa was that one in a million supersub that caused many of the dominoes to fall.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then he should be
the highest-paid player in baseball. Sorry, not buying it.
And I promise, that’s my last word on the subject. For now, anyway. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The highest-paid player in baseball?
To replace a poor choice as his replacement? Hardly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's a one-in-a-million supersub
you’re darned right he should be the highest-paid player in MLB. Those guys don’t grown on trees, right?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd want him back.
The reason we go on and on about DeRo is that we had him. It’s one thing to keep talking about Brian Roberts or Jake Peavey. We never had them. But DeRosa was here. And Hendry didn’t improve the team when he got Bradley. He just replaced DeRosa’s offense with Bradley’s (only on paper, unfortunately.) The thing that concerns me is that we want the same guy who made such poor moves the last couple of seasons to make more. I have little confidence that he has the ability to evaluate talent to significantly improve this team.
"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse
by mattvegas on Jun 14, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly am with you, Al. It’s so much easier to skip over NBF’s posts than to get upset by them. By the way, what’s your take on Soto’s decline this year. Is there really a sophmore jinx or were he and Henry Blanco joined at the hip? Maybe, he should have stayed, too.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't understand getting rid of a utility man who could play solid if not great defense
everywhere on the diamond except pitcher and catcher, and who’s bat only improved the long he was here. It had nothing to do with sentimentality. It had everything to do with the trade not making baseball sense the day it was done, and makes even less sense now.
That trade forced us, or we chose (which is worse) to depend on Mike Fontenot, and Aaron Miles. It was a dumb decision, and an incredibly odd one considering the kind of production Derosa had just delivered. What’s worse, is he’s having the same type of season again. So if Jim was banking on last year being a one year wonder type season for DeRosa, he was terribly wrong.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
UR the manager NOT BRUCE.....
Miles aand DeRo are on the roster….
Who u startin at 2B?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Trillo
What do you think about that? :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What part of 42 RBI's.....
…..does any CUB have?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Al
nothing more frustrating then someone who is wrong and can’t admit it
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You DeRo fans
would know.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know, I've heard you claim over and over that having him here would change nothing
with absolute conviction, while us “Dero fans” have only said it MIGHT be better, what exactly is your proof that having him on the roster would change nothing? Especially considering that our major problem isn’t getting on base, it’s getting someone in once they get on base.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also might be better, and more realistic,
with someone else.
Why just DeRo or zero?
And I’d say getting runners on base is a fairly big problem, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
still haven't answered the question
why are you so certain DeRo wouldn’t help this roster?
Dero is mentioned time and again because he was actually on the roster, and as many have said, there have been internal discussions within the Cubs organization to get him back
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al
Upon further review, it sure seems you were the one who was picking a fight with me. I didn’t single out DeRo, you did.
If your goal was to generate traffic, congratulations. Otherwise, I’m not sure what your point was.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow...
self absorption much?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read his post
and tell me what you think. He’s baiting me all the way.
I would have been perfectly content to let it drop.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emotional no
what they did on the field yes. Ask Soto if Blanco wasn’t a bid influence on him. Soto adimitted how much Hank was a big help. DeRosa did the freaking job, period, I am not in love with the guy. He was valuable, and now we are finding out how much he was.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been saying that about Soto/Blanco all year
Hank White had a lot to do with Soto behind the plate and in the batter’s box. Soto is still young, and to lose Blanco and get the ROY award did more harm than good.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, BigJohnAZ: Thank you for the quote from Jack Brickhouse. It’s nice to know that I’m not the onlly one who admired and respected him, who’s still around.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're Welcome
I remember hearing that on the broadcasts when I was a kid and everyone has seen the replay of the final outs in the 9th inning of the Don Cardwell no hitter. Jack said it during a nervous spot in that inning and I thought, what the heck, that’s a pretty cool line.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget it
It’s hopeless.
Again, I’m glad fans don’t run professional sports franchises.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopeless?
Apparently, you don’t want to acknowledge that there can be factors affecting players that have nothing to do with the player themselves.
Ask Ryan Dempster if it was tougher for him to pitch in April when he had to keep flying back and forth to Phoenix to be with his sick baby… and whether it got easier when the baby was airlifted to Chicago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever, Al
They should have brought back every single player from last year, from Bobby Howry all the way up. That would have been perfect.
I’d suggest there also are a lot more to these decisions than either you or I or anybody else knows about.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cripes.
No one is saying that. Every winning team has to make adjustments.
All we’re saying is that the Cubs made changes based on a faulty assumption: that they lost the NLDS because they didn’t have enough LH hitters. That’s not the reason they lost.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is?
I’d suggest an inability to hit the predominantly right-handed pitching the Dodgers had was not insignificant.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They couldn't hit ANY of the Dodger pitching
The glib reason given (me as much as anyone else) is a case of sphincter-tightening. But I still believe there’s something to it. It was as if every Cub player and every fan in Wrigley were carrying Bartman, Leon Durham, Tommie Agee, the black cat, and Sianis’ goat on their backs.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly agree with you
I think there’s a dark cloud over Wrigley Field, and a heavy weight on the people who play there. And I wonder if it might be more heavy than any of us realize.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why...
… the reason the team lost last year is that they were ill-prepared by their manager for postseason play. Did you watch that first game? They looked scared to death.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't wash, Al
What “preparation” should Piniella had done? Most of these guys were in the 2007 postseason, too.
Face it — the expectations and the pressure of this franchise winning a World Series might be too much for anybody to overcome.
It’s something we might not like to admit. But I think it’s something to consider.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I say "preparation"...
… I mean playing the last week of the season, vs. contenders, like the games meant something instead of like spring training games. The pitching used in the season’s final game vs. Milwaukee — when the Cubs could have helped decide their first round opponent — was reprehensible, like a split-squad game in March.
I think the team lost their edge that last week, and that showed in game one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the preparation for that week
was any different than any other team in that situation.
I’m sure if they did what you suggest and they came out flat, you and others would cry that they were tired and should have gotten rest the previous week.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you really think
another game or two would have made them not “scared to death”? I think they would have been scared either way.
This franchise does that to even the best players.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Winning a game would’ve calmed a lot of nerves for that team, but who knows.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree if you mean winning a playoff game
THis was more about not using the regulars as regularly the last week of the season.
And the Cubs in 2007 clinched on the last series of the season. How did that work out?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is simply my opinion
with no stats or facts or inside information to base it on.
I think the Cubs thought they were going to roll through the first round with ease. The last few games of 2008 were meaningless in regards to winning the division. If they had had a brain, they would have won the last game to play the Mets. The Dodgers were on a roll the last month+ of the season and seemed to be peaking.
DeRo hits his jack, we’re up 2-0 and here we go, right? Then Demp gets into trouble and gives up the Loney 4 bagger. You could tell by the reaction of the crowd it sucked everything out of Wrigley. I think this shook them up and their buttholes tightened and they never recovered, just like now, everyone is pressing, pressing, trying to hit 5 run HR’s. They knew they were in a short series and it blew them out of the water.
That’s how I saw it and still do. This year’s squad resembles those 3 games last year. Lou has to PINCH BUNT for a guy. WTF???
Also, for some freaking reason, the Cubs go as Sori goes. When he’s hitting, everyone loosens up. When he’s in one of his good for nothing streaks, he takes half the team with him. You watch, the next game Sori has a good to great offensive game, a bunch of them will chill out and start hitting.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pinch bunt
I completely misread that on the first pass.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 14, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy this arg about bad preparation last year
Unlike 2007, Lou did not have to compete until nearly the last game of the season. He took the opportunity to set up his pitching rotation and rest some of his position players. He was trying for a different outcome than 2007.
I think that there is something to the “extra pressure on the players” theory. Read Bill Simmons description of the Red Sox travails before they finally won the big prize in 2004.
by vonde6 on Jun 14, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
You’re exactly correct.
The pressure of playing for this franchise just might be too much for anybody to bear. Particularly now that the Cubs are alone in their World Series futility.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And remember also...
… Crane Kenney’s bizarre decision to have a priest “bless” the dugout. This took the focus away from the players and put it back on the sideshow. Laugh if you want, but these things DO matter, especially after Lou made a point to focus on baseball only last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 14, 2009 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely
That was absolutely embarrassing. I lost a lot of respect for Crane Kenney because of that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per Yahoo Sports
the Cubs hit .288 vs. LHP last year and .274 vs. RHP. Pretty close. I think a good portion of the 97 W’s were against RHP, although I don’t have that split.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beating the Marlins in a game in July
isn’t quite like the playoffs, at least as far as the caliber of starters you might face.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The BA vs LHP
was based upon a full season, not an isolated game against the Marlins. Why do you even suggest the two are comparable?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True,
But the Cubs did have some modicum of success vs. righties. I agree with what Van Gundy said the other night after the Magic lost and a reporter asked him about the team’s lack of “experience” in the Finals. He said they’ve played hundreds and hundreds of games, it’s still another game. The Cubs have hit RHP before and some of them hit them pretty well. The Cubs went into a shell offensively after the Loney GS and they look like that now. Are you saying our hitting woes now are because we are only facing righties?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m saying that you’re going to see better pitching in the postseason than you will over the course of the regular season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, in a playoff series, yes
But the Cubs had faced these guys before. It’s not like the Dodgers signed Feller, Koufax and Drysdale for the series. We had our stud pitchers out there as well, but the Dodgers found a way to get hits. The Phillies found a way to beat them. And I think a majority of the bloggers here felt the Cubs were better than the Phils.
The Cubs went into a collective funk all at the same time, sans D Lee. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but
the regular-season games between the Cubs and Dodgers, for the most part, were low-scoring nailbiters that could have gone either way.
Perhaps there’s something bigger here that’s responsible for the problem, as I alluded to earlier.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we outscored them 19 to 18
all told but won 5 of 7. We originally thought they would most likely be low scoring games. We got blown out the first two and only score 1 in the finale. We only score 6 runs total in the 3 games, I don’t think we were expecting to win 2-1 every game.
Unfortunately, we will never know deep down why we lost last year’s playoffs and this year’s offensive woes.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not "the" reason
But I think it was A reason.
Others being inability to field, pitch or hit…
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
when someone posted a “what would you change” at the end of last year, I said “nothing, this team won 97 games.”
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem was they won 0 postseason games
2 years in a row. Now, maybe they made the wrong changes or maybe last year’s success in the regular season was just a fluke. It’s just so baffling that the offense could be this bad just a year later.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I can’t explain it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's the ultimate "Cubbie Occurrence"?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it can't last forever
statistically, they have to win SOMETIME. That goes for the regular season as much as it goes for the WS.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, these are the Cubs we're talking about.
They take drought to a new level.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey cowsarecool20: Unfortunately, I tend to agree with you.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would think
But this current offensive slide really does defy explanation.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have rolled the dice again with 2008's team this year.
And I am not saying that with 20/20 hindsight. I may have mentioned this same thing to Al during ST but I can’ remember.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it really has worked out
with Hendry and Lou running the show. Numerous people in baseball , Steve Phillips, Harold Reyonlds and Joe Morgan couldn’t understand the DeRosa move.
But you will dismiss them to I am sure,
It is beyond me how you can sit there and say this team would not be better with DeRosa here.
Miles, Blanco, Scales, and Fontenot, murders row I tell you.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without necessarily disagree with your overall point...
If Steve Phillips, Harold Reynolds, and Joe Morgan all agree on something, I’m inclined to assume the opposite is probably true.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 13, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's all I need
to convince me it was not a bad idea at the time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is why DeRosa
will get moved at the deadline to a contending team, ( and it won’t be the Cubs cause we won’t be contending) and he will produce for them.
Just like there is a strong majority of people who couldn’t understand the DeRosa move, and will never change there opinion, you obviously will not either. Thats fine, point is he will score more runs, knock in more runs and hit more homeruns, then Scales, Miles, Blanco and Fontenot, but hey the Cubs don’t need him. Cubs are doing just fine.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 14, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its clear
you dont “need” anything
all the evidence in the world against your opinions and you’ll just dig in deeper
you dont need anyone agreeing with you to dig in your heels
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole offense stinks.
Derrek Lee is the only one performing at his expected level. We need a star hitter — someone who can drive in runs consistently (to compliment Ramirez and Lee). And our role players aren’t performing nearly as well.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to beat a dead horse...
But Adam Dunn and his production would have been golden right now.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That fills one problem.
But we still have major holes at 2nd, center, and shortstop. Hell, even catcher.
I understand we can’t have an all-star at every position but dammit. These guys averages and production needs to be better than this.
It’s like Jake Fox’s defense … a notch above horrific.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SS isn't too much of a problem
Theriot has been slumping the last few days but he’s won more games for the team than almost every other regular playing right now.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
For anyone who says at this moment, defense is more important than the HR’s and RBI’s scored, I say they haven’t watched the Cubs play in the last 6 weeks.
Seriously, I’d put Jake Fox out there if he could get us 30HR’s this year. I don’t care anymore about the defensive repercussions.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Fox was hitting while he was here. Play him anywhere — LF, 3B, hell, let him catch — just get his bat in the lineup.
Maybe the Cubs can get Dunn anyway. It’s not like the Nats are going anywhere.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I really thought you were going to disagree with me Al!
At what point do you think our starters get frustrated with our guys hitting? And when I say frustrated I hope that guy isn’t Zambrano…
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it works that way.
The pitchers go out and do their jobs. What else can they do? Do they all have to go out and throw shutouts and hit homers themselves?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pitchers are hitting better than the hitters.
Sad. I’d rather have Zambrano in the lineup than some of the regulars.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Triples work too
Ask Lilly :)
All kidding aside, I don’t think there’s too much change that can be done overnight for the team. They have to wake up and realize they’re MLB players and do their damn jobs.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure a really bad infielder can outhit their mistakes
and that is what Jake Fox would be at 3rd base. (if he’s a below average 1st baseman, I shudder to think about how his play at 3rd would be.)
Here’s an example:
As I recall, The Brewers had a better record in 2007 before the called Ryan Braun up. While Braun put up terrific offensive numbers, his defense was terrible. While Braun’s defense wasn’t the only reason for the record, it definitely contributed. Braun was moved to leftfield in the offseason after he was named rookie of the year because of the number of misplays Braun made at 3rd base.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers lost in 2007
Because they had a bullpen that blew leads. It wasn’t just their defense.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense that forces pitchers to get extra outs is significant
and directly related to the success of a pitching staff.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But if I recall the Brewers biggest blow was really bad umps in their games.
It was their series against the Braves. Texeira got called safe in a play he was clearly out on and everything else fell apart for them.
I feel like Ned Yost got ejected 3 games in a row that week and he had legit arguments every game.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...
Didn’t he just sign a 1-year deal? But where the heck would he play? LF?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put him in RF and Bradley on the bench.
Or maybe we could get the Nats to take Bradley in return. The entertainment value might put people in the seats there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Sori at 2nd...
Dunn in LF. Defense would be an adventure, but at this point I’d take that risk.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That'd work for me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, man
Dunn in left, and Sori at second? Dome will have a LOT of work.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been a few years since Soriano played 2nd
and I think fans have forgotten how historically bad he was defensively.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if we're moving Soriano to 2B
What’s the point of Dunn? Having Jake Fox or Hoff playing there every day could bring equivalent power.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, not really.
You’re saying Hoffpauir and/or Fox are as good a hitter as Adam Dunn? Seriously?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realized when I typed this
That I’m being ridiculous saying that.
But having them play regularly should help bring in some runs.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, more than zero runs, anyway.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"adventure" is putting it lightly
Our strength is pitching, i’d rather go for better defense to help that.
if we could scratch 1 or 2 runs out (which may be asking a lot) but had a plus defensive team out there, maybe we don’t give up those cheap rbis to the other team.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He signed a 2-year deal
I remember thinking at the time that he’d be a free agent again right when Lee’s contract expired w/ Cubs. I’m not saying, I’m just saying…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you fit Dunn
into the roster? Soriano is a fixture in LF and Bradley is the RF.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put Soriano at 2B.
Yes, that would suck defensively. But at least the team would have a chance to hit.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the problem:
How many bad defensive teams end up in the playoffs and actually WIN in the playoffs?
One of the reasons for the improvement of the Reds is their improved outfield defense with Griffey and Dunn (both outfield statues) now gone. Now that they actually have outfielders who can catch the ball, their pitching has benefited.
As I recall, one of the things that allowed the Red Sox to finally win the WS in 2004 was the improvement in their defense when they got rid of Nomar (who’s defense was below average) and picked up Orlando Cabrera and Doug M.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine
Soriano being capable of playing 2B any more. His range would be almost non existant and I doubt he’d have the fearlessness to turn the double plays. I know there is talk of it happening but I feel Sori is past his prime as an infielder.
Suppose they did get Dunn and Soriano was a disaster as a 2B as I believe would happen. Now what do you do?
The quickest fix I’d try immediately would be to put Fox at 3B, move Fontenot to 2B and pray endlessly. It wouldn’t cost anything but some courage.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 14, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to say it
but for the last few games, at least, Bradley’s been hitting the ball well. Twice today, both Bradley and Lee were on base and couldn’t get driven home.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same Bradley that went 0-6 two games ago?
Sure, he slapped a double yesterday, but his only trip to the bases today was a walk from Nathan. Not exactly tearing the cover off the ball there.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should have had another hit.
Gomez stole one from him on an incredible catch.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet
If we were Twins fans, we’d probably be griping about Gomez’s initial hesitation on the play, necessitating that dive.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well played, sir.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to see another Unique person in here. DLee, unfortunately, is a “spurt” hitter, as are most of our other “Stars.” What we need are more steady hitters, with a little spark. Maybe, we could getting Juan Pierre back, when Mannie returns to the Dodgers.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Third base
When Aramis went down the Cubs had no one to play third base. By putting Fontenot there they have weakened themselves at two positions. I’m getting a deja vu back a few years ago when Lee went down for most of the year. Again they had no one to play first and they again weakened themselves at first and at second (also right) field) when they put guys like Grudzelanek and Hollandsworth at first base. Hendry, please stock your team each year with the idea that there will be guys who get hurt. Learn your lesson.
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot
shouldn’t even be the starting second baseman.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
Correct, but would you rather have Miles or Blanco there? Ouch
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have DeRosa.
but i don’t want to sound like a broken record.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cash poor
You are right about the broken record statement. It’s over. We need to move on now and enjoy our new guy, Bradley. Ouch.
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not even Bradley that's the big problem.
It’s every other position other than first that has been a problem. Bradley just made some idiotic decisions yesterday — and the fans let their frustration out on him and his mishaps.
Bradley needs to perform better but I don’t think he’s the problem.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Agree that he is part of the problem. He is way below his career numbers and hitting in the middle of the line up that does contribute to the problem.
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I, of course, would too. However Bobby Scales is pretty good, as well, and (to the front office), cheap at the price.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Deja Vu...
This feels like ’05 all over again, two good but disappointing years, and then a fall to mediocrity.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know
I said early in this season that this team reminds me of 05. I got ripped in half for it. Hope I’m still wrong about that.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
You can’t be very negative on this site with all the eternal optimists around here. It’s called history, repetition, and reality!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can criticize, yes.
Just don’t be profane or call names.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never have
There’s no reason to call anybody anything considering there’s a lot of evidence that suggests against their optimism.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's the case
it’s a wonder how you can go through a game without slitting your throat.
3.5 games out on June 13.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3.5 games of luck
Honestly, we could be 10 back. Thank god no one has took off.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that luck
It’s about the only luck the Cubs have had all season. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
25 years of heartbreak will do that
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't use that as justification
There’s a lot of people who have a lot more time than you invested in this.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've all seen years of it too
If you can’t take it, walk away for a while.
I have.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly emotionally detached after last year
but I can justify anyway I’d like to. To each his/her own.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really a shame that we haven't taken advantage of this pitching.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no kidding
pitching like this is what usually fuels 8 game winning streaks… not 4 game losing streaks.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the Marlins made a significant change during the '03 season
and that worked pretty well for them.
by Mapmaker on Jun 13, 2009 4:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Astros
Didn’t they make a change the year they went to the NLCS?
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers anyone?
Getting Manny took them from the gutter to a playoff team. Who can be our Manny?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Dodgers team
had a better offense than we do right now.
Right now we need Jesus. Play him in center.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus, Buddha, Alah, and Yahweh are all needed in the OF.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers, indeed
You may remember that last year they pretty much sucked the first half of the season and then everything clicked later when Ramirez arrived. And they ended up in the NLCS.
Well, I speculate that when our Ramirez gets back we will see the same uptick that the Dodgers did last year – and end on a high note and into the playoffs like they did.
by JFCubFan on Jun 13, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody messes with the Jesus!
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
by DTJchris on Jun 13, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was Jobu
Jesus just didn’t help. Didn’t say he COULDN’T. Just that he didn’t. :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think coaching staff is getting the boot
I think they are going to have to start blaming someone and it’s going to be Gerald Perry.
I made a post on here about a month ago asking when we start blaming the hitting coach and I think we have to. Nobody on that team is hitting. It doesn’t matter who the pitcher is, which division they’re playing or league for that matter.
They need someone new to give them a different hitting approach.
Thank god we’ve had good pitching. If they hit as they should be, the Cubs would probably have 5-10 more wins under their belt and I’d venture more like 10 wins.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not Perry's fault.
He was the hitting coach last year when they led the league in runs scored. And suddenly he can’t coach any more? That’s not the issue.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a different theory on that
He did an excellent job last year. But I think teams did their homework on the Cubs this year. Winning 97 games can do that. I don’t think he’s given them a new approach towards hitting and perhaps starting pitchers have figured them out?
I think they need a fresh approach out there for our guys at the plate.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
scouting?
So we need better scouting reports for our hitters?
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe?
Who knows what goes on in that clubhouse. Maybe they aren’t doing as good of a job as last year preparing for starting pitching?
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generally, I think coaches get way to much of the blame when things are going poorly
and to little of the credit when things are going well.
In this case, I think the blame lies with the players, not the coach. However, since you can’t fire all of the players, it’s likely the coach will be fired. At this point, you might as well try the change (and replace him with the Iowa hitting coach, I’d presume) since the offense totally stinks and can’t get much worse whether you make a change or not. I guess there’s only one way to go, up (hopefully).
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
too little of the credit?
the pineilla love-fest here over the last two years has been overwhelming…
i think you’re right in getting too much of the blame, but i think it works on the reverse end as well that they get too much credit when things are going well
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
This falls on the players, however I think Lou’s verbal and non-verbal actions I am sure has something to do with it. I can’t recall when a whole team goes a month without hitting and scoring runs.
This team does not have the right pieces. Living on the east coast and get to watch the Phillies and Red Sox and it kills you to see how proficient they are.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it really so crazy to think
that Soriano’s complete inefficiency at lead off is putting the team at such a deficit that it can’t overcome it?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's definitely a big part of the problem.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he's hot...
It’s almost a no-brainer to let him hit there, but when he’s struggling he’s nothing but a liability leading off.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
a liability on defense.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you advocate playing Fox at 3B?
If you do, then you should have no problem with Soriano playing LF>
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
His hot streaks are shorter and his cold streaks are longer. He’s not worth even close to what he’s getting paid. On top of it, his loafing has increased, making him worth even less.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh.
no one will argue that Soriano is hitting well right now.
He’s not a loafer.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no he just doesn't play hard
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 14, 2009 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes he does.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 14, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TRY
living between Yankees and Red Sox fans
by questdoc on Jun 13, 2009 4:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we struggle by trade deadline
Will this team become sellers?
Do you think there will be pressure from upper management to lose payroll for the new ownership if it’s pretty much certain this team won’t make it to post season?
I hate to look ahead like that but it’s been on my mind the last couple weeks.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who could they sell?
Harden would be a good candidate. Marmol. Guzman,
That’s about it, right?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee, and I wish Soriano.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
May be the best time to move Lee to get maximum value, especially since he has been hitting well. Of course, there goes our only bat, but…
When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb
by SotoRiot on Jun 13, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both have NTC's
Lee was asked if he wanted a trade in the off season and he said no. No one is taking Soriano without the Cubs paying a whole lot and then what’s the point?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about us paying
1/3 of the contract remaining. Think anyone would take it?
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those types of deals
don’t get done during the season.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs won't take on that kind of financial responsibility.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would take a .230 LF anyways right now
If he actually hit 60-70 points better Cubs might be winning a few more games…
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He won't stay that low.
I’d hope not.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was hitting .284 at end of April
May he hit .216
June he’s hitting .174.
It takes effort to drop your average 50 points….
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
Forgot about Lee’s NTC. All these contracts are coming back to haunt us.
When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch. -Ty Cobb
by SotoRiot on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But think of it like this
Why would Lee want to be traded this year? Fans in Chicago do love him…he was on a 97 game winning team. The fact is, if we aren’t going to post season and he can go to a team that might I think he’d take the trade.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox
I’d think Lee would waive his no-trade clause for a chance to play with them.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are they gonna bench to play him?
They have as many first basemen as we have second basemen.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Youk to third.
I believe he’s played very well defensively there.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then what about Lowell?
He’s done good this year too.
We’re not trading with Red Sox so it doesn’t matter.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Ortiz?
It’s not like he’s torn the cover off the ball.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get serious
What would the Sox do with Ortiz? Release him? Lee won’t be going to Boston.
by rlpete on Jun 13, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad
I thought for some reason Lowell was on the DL. I haven’t much about him all year, but he’s got good numbers.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Lilly...
You don’t think a contender would scoop him up, as well as he’s been pitching, with just one year left on his deal?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe it or not
He also has a no trade clause but he might wave it. The only REALLY valuable we have to trade but it would break my heart.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Lilly going anywhere.
He’s likely to be the Cubs’ only All-Star.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Marmol or Guzman
They take on no salary from the Cubs….
DLee, Gregg, Fukudome….those are guys they could try to unload to get some young guys in the farm system.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DLee isn't going anywhere
No one will give anything for Fukudome. Nothing. Not even a bag of balls.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is taking Fukudome
He’s not hitting and he’s got a big salary.
Harden is the best candidate if he is healthy.
by rlpete on Jun 13, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Fukudome's deal can be bought out and he can go back to Japan.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aram
is the most valuable piece the Cubs have. I would think Dempster’s contract can be moved as well.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not with 3 years remaining
at least not during the season.
I wouldnt’ want the CUbs to get rid of either Dempster or Lilly. They will still need someone to pitch and a rotation that starts with Z, Demp, and Lilly is still pretty formidable and can be for a few years to come.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Those kinds of deals don’t get made in July. Teams aren’t trading for 3+ years of a high salary contract
by rlpete on Jun 13, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
High payroll team
It would have to be to the right team, but certainly not impossible.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really are an optimist
Harden is the starting pitcher who would go. Dempster will stay.
by rlpete on Jun 13, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Harden would be alright
Wells/Marshall filled in really well while he was out.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden has real value...
… and won’t be back next year. I would NOT be opposed to trading him if it could bring some hitting help.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles & Harden
to … just about anyone for a good bat?
I don’t know who… or really care who. I just want someone who can hit in the clutch.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It pains me to say it...
But Cubs and Sox fans can sympathize with one another right now. Both are in very winnable and mediocre divisions, both have horribly inconsistent offenses, great pitching, and are horrible with RISP.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nailed it.
In the case of the Cubs, I’d say that their divisional opponents are better this year. Not leaps and bounds better, but improved and that’s hurt the Cubs. On the other hand, the Cubs offense has dropped substantially. Improved opponents and drop in offense = 2009 Cubs.
Regarding the Sox, I wouldn’t call the Sox pitching great. The starters are probably better than the Twins and other divisional opponents but Detroit has the 2 best starting pitchers in the division. The Sox offense is exactly as you described, “horribly inconsistent.”
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 13, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shake Up
New logo and uniforms next year.
Trade everyone
by questdoc on Jun 13, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hell.
Let’s get a new stadium why we are at it.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scorched earth policy
Just torch everything from the past, and start from scratch.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Move the team to Kalamazoo
maybe that will do it.
by JFCubFan on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the 1929 uniforms!
And I still would love for the Cubs to use those as an occasional alternate uniform.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs could learn something from the Twins...
The Twins payroll is a little over $65 million. As we all know the Cubs payoll is $70 million more than that of the Twins. The Twins teach and train their young minor leaguers how to play The Game the right way from the first day that they join the organization. They teach their players to hustle, move runners ahead, and execute sacrifices. The Cubs bring in expensive mercenary players who may or may not fit with what the organization is trying to do. The Cubs have been marginally more successful than the Twins in the last 5 years (but not by much). The Twins are giving the Cubs a baseball lesson this weekend. Hopefully, Lilly can be a stopper tomorrow.
by Wildpitch on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sadly...
Even if Lilly goes 9 and gives up a run, we still could be in trouble.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could go
for a complete game shutout and we could find someway to put up negative runs on the board.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs could
but it would take at least a decade to implement that throughout the organization.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eventually they have to bite the bullet
and start over.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please.
Watch games. The problem isn’t the players lack of knowledge of small ball, and you don’t need youngsters to play that style.
by Mike Martin on Jun 13, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do watch the games, buddy...
…and I can tell you that the Cubs get plenty of runners to 3rd base with less than 2 outs and then fail to plate them. The lead off man never scores unless he hits a home run. The pitchers rarely execute a sacrifice on the first attempt, if they get it down at all. It’s not knowledge of The Game, it’s execution. This team doesn’t do it.
by Wildpitch on Jun 13, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every night I pray to the god I don't believe in...
that Hungry Jim will be fired or decide to go into a different line of work. This whole fiasco starts at the top. Is this flop the players’ fault? Hell no! Players do what they do – it’s management’s job to put a winning team on the field. Bradley can’t help who he is. Miles can’t suddenly become good. Aramis can’t wear a bionic shoulder. Kosuke can’t become a major league hitter just by snapping his fingers. Please, Jim, please, for the love of peace, go away!
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
HR RIOT KKK
I said some time ago the RIOT was one of the best I have seen hitting the little dunk to right field behind the runner…………. But he started thinking HR … 7 kK’s in 3 games I am joininghe anti Riot peeps………… De Ro .275 Thanks Jim H.
by nimblenikelfoos on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
don't blog drunk
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean you're still not drinking?
You have more willpower than I do.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you trust the Cubs to remake the team...
with Hendry doing the remaking?
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Heck no!
He’s the main reason for this year’s debacle. Handing huge contracts to Sori, Dome, and Bradley have completely ham-strung this team.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has confused running a major league baseball team...
with running a fantasy team.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And his fantasy team...
would be mediocre as well
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think a lot of fans
confuse running a fantasy team with running a big-league team.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No trade clauses?
Has he given every player with a big contract one? Unbelievable!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats not unheard of
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sort of what I've been wondering
It is de riguer throughout MLB to give your big-ticket players NTCs?
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are an incentive to sign...
Below market deals like Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano did at the time. The three of them would’ve fetched more on the open market, but decided to take discounts to stay here.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
got it, thanks
Forgot that all those deals were discounted.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, the Cubs have re-signed several of their own players
which means that several of those players were close to 10/5 rights anyway (Lee & Ramirez.) No trade clauses for the short time until they have obtained that status doesn’t seems like a bad trade-off if you can sign the player for less than market value at the time.
Dempster re-signed with the Cubs in the offseason and has no-trade protection due to his 5/10 status .
BTW, 5/10 status is 5 years with the same team, 10 years in MLB.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that an "either or" thing?
Like 5 years with the same team OR 10 years service? Or is it an “and” thing where you need both?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both,
a player needs to have 10 years of MLB service time and 5 years with their current team.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many days until Fox can be up
I think people are speculating he’s going to start beginning tomorrow.
Doesn’t he have to wait 5 more days unless someone goes on the DL?
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Correct.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thought so
Remember that makes up for my bonehead Adam Dunn is equal production as Hoff/Fox comment :)
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone kick Aaron Miles in the shin, then?
I mean, like, really hard.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone said he was still favoring that shoulder of his
maybe he can go back on the DL b/c of that?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the gatorade machine can beat the crap out of Miles
I’d rather have that on the bench anyways!
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water
While the Cubs look horrendous, the way baseball economics are, there is no way the Cubs are going to be sellers unless they are really, really out of the race by the end of July. That’s not gong to happen. The division is not good and I don’t see anyone taking off.
Some of the trades proposed here are just not going to happen. Anyone with a NTC is not going to be moved and I doubt the Cubs will ever be sellers this year anyway.
Hendry is not going to sit on his hands here. I don’t know what he can or will do but I’m pretty sure he will do something.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Then
You deal Vitters for a major league bat that is playable right now. If you’re not going to sell and you’ve got all of these resources tied up right now, Josh Vitters is a luxury as an heir apparent even if it is three or more years out. Otherwise, you sit there and hope that lightning strikes some of these guys and they start hitting. Those are the only two realistic options.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't deal Vitters
under any circumstance…..
any trade you could make would be filling a “temporary hole” based on salary commitment. We’re committed to LF, CF, RF, 1B, 3B with HUGE salary commitments, that then couldn’t be moved in another direction
Vitters is the replacement for Lee after next year and a cheap one at that we can build around
you don’t move him to acquire a big time bat that you don’t have salary capacity or lineup positioning for long-term
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Vitters a 3B and the heir to Ramirez?
And he’s more than a year away.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if Aramis opts out...
yes, but DLee will be the quicker hole to replace
Vitters is destroying A ball, he should be moved to AA and given the next year and a half to move forward, seeing him as an opening day or call-up in the 2011 season seems very reasonable
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could also play 3B with Ramirez moving to 1B
Not that that’s a given, but it’s another possibility.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i'm assuming
aramis’ D will be better than Vitters
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If you don’t deal him under any circumstance, you sit an watch this team flail away all season. You don’t get a difference-making bat without dealing him, it’s that simple.
And yes, he’s more than a year away. The last “can’t miss” masher that beat up pitching all the way to AAA was Matt LaPorta and he’s failed miserably in the majors this year. While it’s fun to dream of Vitters fitting right in when others are moved out, the reality is that he’s as big of a question mark to ever make a difference in the majors as this current lineup is at turning it around significantly. If you’re not willing to take that risk, you may as well stand pat and pray.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
49 PA's
give young guys time and they hit. sometimes it takes time but they usually get to their minor league level of production
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still failing miserably
Yes, small sample size but on a Cleveland team going nowhere and with his AB’s pretty brutal, that is considered failing. LaPorta isn’t obviously a total failure but my point is that Vitters is a long way away from being a difference maker no matter what he’s doing in Low A ball.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
assuming he'll be a difference maker
right away is the issue
i’m not saying he’s going to be a stud in 2 years, i’m saying he should be in our lineup in 2 years
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potentially
That is the biggest bargaining chip if you’re gong for it this year and I think they are going for it this year.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as poorly as we're playing now
‘going for it this year’ if that means trading your future for mebbe winning the nlc with 90 wins, is a ‘brock for boglio’ stupidity
by tim815 on Jun 13, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The flip side
Then the flip side is you stand pat all season long and acquire no legitimate run producers because aside from Vitters, there is nothing else in the organization that will return just that. Sure they may be able to deal second-tier ML guys for another question mark looking for a change of scenery…but we’ve got enough of those guys already.
And with the construction of this club and it’s uncertainty in a few years, wishing on Vitters alone is foolhardy no matter how he turns out…unless of course he intends on playing Eddie Feigner along with three other guys to round out his King and His Court.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am really looking forward to these changes but primarily because of what they
may say about Hendry and how his thinking/approach may have changed.
Given the contracts on the roster there isn’t a great deal of flexibility and I think Hendry is as loyal as you will find in the game to the staff that he hires. Notwithstanding all that, Hendry has made some good/gret moves in the past when it looked like all was lost. I am not going to complain about the off-season moves, I already did that during the off-season, just look forward to making some changes or even tweaks that can help get this team playing consistently good baseball.
by DudeVf11 on Jun 13, 2009 5:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right
Most of his moves have not looked great TO THIS POINT. But I can’t imagine he’s going to stand pat.
Remember, he’s trying to keep his job, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Which is why I think there’s something to this Deep Goat information. Stay tuned. It may not happen before tomorrow’s game, but I’m reasonably sure that something WILL happen — sooner rather than later.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike in past years...
I would not be shocked, saddened, or outraged if anyone were to get traded or dumped.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do I still get the right to be outraged?
Depending on who gets traded if there is one?
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
players that I would not want to get traded
Marmol, pitching staff, guzman, soto, bradley,
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's still an unknown, with a big contract, playing at a serious low.
We’d get no value for a guy that, by all logic, SHOULD blow up at some point. We don’t want to be here in 3 months lamenting him going on a tear for some other team because we never gave him a chance, do we?
We know everyone else. Sori streaks. Lee is reliable but aging. On and on and on. We know what they bring, we know what we’d lose in being rid of them, we know what value is fair for them. Bradley (and to a degree Dome, as these extended slumps HAVE to be mental) is wrong right now, but this isn’t his normal. Something HAS to give with him. I’d rather see a coaching change get the chance to fix him than see him go somewhere and right the ship.
A ‘failed experiment’ isn’t what the cubs need. Don’t give up on him, FIX HIM.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano isn't streaking
He’s severely slumping and not getting better.
It takes really really bad hitting to drop your average over 50 points in a 6 weeks period.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steaking, slumping...
… same thing. You are on a hot streak, you aren’t. Semantics.
We know who he is and what he does. Trading him, at least we are trading a known element. With Bradley, we don’t know what he’s even worth. Is he worth how he’s playing now? Is he worth how he played last season? The answer is somewhere between, but who knows where?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
keep vitters
keep thomas
keep jay jackson
other than that, meh.
by tim815 on Jun 13, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the "big move" is Zell capitulating to Ricketts and the deal finally getting done!
:fingers crossed:
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are the Cubs in a nutshell...
they have a six-year minor league vet who has raked at every level but they’ve never given him a ghost of a chance to see if he can do it in the bigs (or even peddle him off to the American League in exchange for something useful.) Then, when their long-awaited pennant contender starts coming apart at the seams, we all look to him (no longer a kid) as the answer.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seems like
the Cubs have an abundence of players who fit that description.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'll never happen...
…but in reality it should be Pinella getting the boot. As almost everyone, including himself after last year’s postseason meltdown, intimated, it was Lou who so badly wanted to make the team more lefthanded. Doing so undercut the team’s versatility, both in terms of payroll (i.e. good players with attractive contracts) and on the field.
I’m not a huge Jim Hendry fan, and Pinella is entertaining, but this is by all accounts “his team” – the team he has wanted since he got here. So either he doesn’t know how to manage it, or misunderstood what a winning team, forget a championship team, looked like.
But it’ll never happen.
"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore
by duboisdm on Jun 13, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we become "sellers"...
I don’t see Lou sticking around the whole season.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say it before
But if Lou were to be let go…nobody should say they are surpised, didn’t see it coming, or that is wasn’t fair. He didn’t do a good job managing the post season and he’s made some bonehead moves in the games this year. Much more than in the past.
That being said, who would replace him? Surely not Alan Trammel?
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rothschild?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would do that with the pitching coach?
Wouldn’t that take him away from our starters?
Removing Rothschild from pitching is the last thing this team should consider.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doing anything that weakens the pitching
would be a bad move.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wild guess
Bob Brenly was an option for Milwaukee. While I’m not normally a fan of the move from booth to bench, it isn’t that far out there.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't mind that at all...
Probably not very realistic, but it’d definitely be interesting to see.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
It does make a little bit more sense than just a wild guess, and Brenly has a track record, I just find it hard to believe it will happen. But if I were to take a dark horse, it would be Brenly.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus...
Besides the current staff, who has seen this team play more and knows them better than BB?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not Trammel?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
terrible track record
with his last big league team
by desmoCubbie on Jun 13, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible that Lou asked for a more left-handed lineup...
and then Hungry Jim blew up the winning team to do it? And now Lou has thrown his hands up and said, “Screw it, nobody can win here”?
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That is
exactly what happened – but how else could Hendry have done it? We can criticize his choice in personnel (which he deserves) but there’s no getting around the fact that we could only get left handed in a couple of places – 2B being one of them, along with RF – and, consequently, we lose some of the best leaders and most flexible players, either for payroll or position purposes.
Lou wasn’t satisfied with the team that won 97 games, and the division to boot, and this is what Hendry did to give him what he wanted. They are both culpable, but it seems that it was primarily Lou’s idea.
"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore
by duboisdm on Jun 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, last year's team wasn't "blown up"
Most of the faces on it are very familiar. They just aren’t playing like it.
Guys like Soto, Soriano and Fukudome are hurting the Cubs. And guys like Bradley not playing up to his capability.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than time, though
how do you get people to play up to their capabilities?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask our opponents every series
They seem to have the answers….
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aside from attacking them with cattle prods,
that’s a good question.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Soriano
His homeruns don’t make up for lack of hitting every other game. He had some blasts in April that gave us the win but now I think we’ve lost more games with him not hitting in key situations.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blown up
no. But broken up, for sure. There is no debating the fact that DeRosa and Wood were effective, hugely instrumental, and popular guys on the team. One of last year’s buzzwords was “chemistry” – the team had great “chemistry.”
Romanticizing aside, both of those guys contributed mightily on the field and in the clubhouse. And who are we to say that chemistry isn’t real or important? It sure sounded important last year.
"Writing is exciting and baseball is like writing. You can never tell with either how it will go or what you will do." -- Marianne Moore
by duboisdm on Jun 13, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chemistry is overrated
Win and you’ll like your teammates. A losing team that looks happy/friendly would be worse.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100 percent
Chemistry is HIGHLY overrated. The Oakland A’s in the early ’70s hated each other, but they still won World Series.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I think we overrate DeRosa's and Wood's contributions
to any sort of clubhouse atmosphere.
From most of what I read last season, the best guy in the clubhouse was Dempster.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Demp probably...
Hasn’t been himself this year, because of the terrible situation with his daughter.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we're not losing in the clubhouse
we’re losing on the field.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
I was just making an observation based on what NBF noted.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you suggest
that DeRosa’s contributions were overrated? His numbers as a full service utility man were incredible. He alone could have filled in the positions of 3B, 2B 1B and the corner OF. He could have eliminated the need for Miles, Freel, Hoffpauir and Fontenot.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
Chemistry is a term often applied retrospectively to teams that do well.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the 70s A's had it, but showed it in a grumpy way
I’ve always liked the A’s and have a few books on them, especially the 1970s teams. Written by some of the local beat writers, the books have intimated that all of them were gamers, dead intent on playing the game the right way and having no patience for mental mistakes and lackadaisical play. They kept themselves in check – fisticuffs being the preferred method.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
winning creates chemistry
not the other way around
agree with your point
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Acta about to get canned in DC...
With our very own Jim Riggelman taking over.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn't that happen last year
in Seattle?
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess he'd fit right in.
As I recall, his career numbers with runners in scoring position are terrible.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then maybe...
Hendry should have told Lou to chill out. That’s what a strong, effective executive does.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou probably countered with...
“Look… we’ve tried it your way for 2 years, now let’s try it my way.”
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Au contraire!
I think Lou had enormous influence since day one.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure it was "Look..."?
It might have been “Listen…”
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look (not to sound like Lou, but) ...
Maybe Hendry agreed with him.
If he did, that wouldn’t be unusual. Becuase every GM and every manager strive for LH/RH balance in their lineups.
The Cubs were suseptible to strong, right-handed pitching. Rememeber the regular-season games against the Dodgers last year? Most of them were close — 2-1, 3-2, etc.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good idea, not so good results
Getting more LHs and switch hitters was a decent enough idea. Milton Bradley and Aaron Miles being the acquisitions…well, let’s say the gamble hasn’t exactly paid off.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One trade I could see....
Maybe with the Mets?
I don’t know for who yet but one large contract for another? They need a pitcher, we need a hitter.
I highly doubt we’d ever get a David Wright (who I bet could play 2B when Ramirez comes back) but perhaps something happens?
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
um, WHY would the Mets EVER trade David Wright?
I’m not sure who the Mets would be willing to trade since they’ve been hit hard with injuries. I would imagine the Mets might be interested in Jake Fox but I’m not sure who they’d be willing to offer in return.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say they would trade him
I actually said I highly doubt we can get him. Mets are actually in same situation we are in with injuries to their staff. But their needs is pitching and our needs is power.
And speaking of David Wright, the second he becomes a free agent he’s out of NY. I guarantee it. He hates the media there, being the go to guy, and how the fans have turned on them. I think down the road he’d be a great fit in Chicago but we do have a great 3B.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that's where we totally disagree.
I don’t think there’s any chance the Mets let Wright leave. They can offer him an extension at any time and since he’s the face of the francise I suspect they will do this long before he becomes a free agent.
It’s not like the Mets are loaded with talented position players in the minors, they will be under a tremendous amount of pressure to keep Wright a Met.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curiousity do you live in the NY area?
I do and I can see from his interviews on TV, sports radio and just fans in general…it’s doesn’t seem like it would shock anyone.
Even Mets fans said they think he’ll leave because of the reasons stated above. I’m sure Mets will do anything they can do keep him though.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, I'm in Chicago.
It just seems that so often players take the most money they can get, even if it seems obvious they are unhappy playing for the team/city (A-Rod is an example.)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget with A-Rod
Nobody else would take him for his salary demands.
You gotta trust me on David Wright though, that guy is not happy being on the Mets. A lot of people I talk to thinks he’d take a slightly smaller salary to go to a small market team.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just fixated on blaming every problem on Hendry...
I mean, I have to hold on to something.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Deep, Al, D e e p
I hope your goat is right. I can’t watch this team right now and they’re MY team.
by leothelip on Jun 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cubs have been shut out 5 times this year, not 3
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
I missed the first two when looking at the game results. I’ll fix the post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NP, the reason I remember is I had just posted this an hour ago in the game thread lol
sadly, I might add :(
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuck
Only 5?
Feels like double that, at least.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We only got snookered 8 times all of last season
this trend is not something we want to continue.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they've scored a token run
a couple of times in the late innings when they went on to lose.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
Its been a year of ugly offense.
And the matchups coming up don’t look any prettier. Anyone know if we’re likely to miss Verlander in the DET series?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how many one run games have we won...and lost?
by JFCubFan on Jun 13, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs are currently
6-11 in one-run games. I’m not as shocked by those numbers as I am the fact that we’ve been involved in that many close ones. 29% of the contests to date have been decided by one run.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Typically, your 1 run W-L record
is a good indicator of your team.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
Their one-run record was miserable, even worse than this, in 2007. By the end of the season, it was .500.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I mean
as a snapshot of how the team is doing. Right now, they have a losing record in 1 run games and it shows on the field. If they get that stat back up to .500 I am sure we will be talking about how well they were playing.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really
typically 1 run W-L records are close to .500
when they’re large discrepancies in the data its usually based off of luck
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope big moves are in store
I can’t bear to watch Aaron Miles hit soft grounders to the pitcher anymore. I can’t bear watching Fukudome strike out every time he comes up to the plate or Theriot striking out every time because he thinks he’s a home run hitter. The only thing I’m proud of is Derek Lee. He’s staying in there after the first month of crap and has raised his average.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I've ever said this but
thank god the Sox are killing the Brewers.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Milwaukee just left the bases loaded in the bottom of the eighth.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doubt they'll make it a habit
like the cubs have
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole division
has been like that recently. The Cardinals and Reds have been no better than the Brewers and the Cubs.
Please, let’s not pretend this stuff only happens to the Cubs. Please.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it doesn't
but I watch the Cubs the closest so everything feels like its bigger when it happens to us.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sox have the same problem...
Ozzie has been pretty animated about it as well, calling guys out. Saying they get a guy on 3rd, or bases loaded, and then do what they do best and strike out.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Sox offense is bad, and it is terrible with runners in scoring postion.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 13, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's in the water?
Very strange that BOTH offense for our teams stink in the clutch.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I'm listening to the UekMan
The Brewers have to be thinking WTF? They should be 10 games up at least right now…
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's one crappy silver lining! lol
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every time I think of Lou's LH hitter request or excuse I hear my Mom's voice
“be careful what you wish for”….
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about you
but I still think Milton is going to hit. Sure he looks like he’s lost out there sometimes but he will break out of his big slump. Soriano didn’t start out hot and look how he finished his season. Hopefully I’m right.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but it seems that we really haven’t seen any hint of it from Bradley. And his on field mind is wandering. I think he will hit, too, but September may be too late.
Sori is the definition if streaky. When he’s on, he’s unreal. When he’s off, he doesn’t even make contact. All or nothing. Usually, when he is in suck mode, we have a fwe others picking up the slack. Not this year.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what in Milton Bradley's career numbers makes you think he'll turn this around to any productive degree?
Sure he might not hit .200 all season, at the end of the year he might get to .250, but it seems like there are quite a few people who are ready to ignore:
1. Bradley is hurt an awful lot and
2. Last year was a career year, and he really hadn’t ever come close to put up those numbers together. He was a career .268 hitting coming into the season, with a career high 22 home runs.
People act like Bradley is the next Tony Gwynn, only with power
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question:
Was anyone else scratching their heads when Lou took Soto out and sent in Andres Blanco to pinch-hit? I know Soto has been down on power this year, but I thought then and I still think now that I would rather have seen him bat.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But Geo can't bunt
at least Blanco made a productive out.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andy White is the only position player I trust to bunt
If we had tied it, he’d have stayed in at 2B or SS, and Hill would have been behind the plate. After the initial shock, it began to make a lot of sense.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When lou takes out Soto
Because he doesn’t think he’s capable right now to get a big hit to score some runs there are some serious problems.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was assinine
i went off in the game thread about it
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was the right call.
Soto was an easy DP target. Blanco could bunt the runners along and did so, putting the Cubs in position to tie the game with a single.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it decreases our chances at scoring runs
i’m not sure why its a good move to decrease your chances of scoring runs, use 2 bench players to make the move on a 4 man bench (since we were pH for the catcher) and giving a free out to one of the best pitchers in baseball
explain to me how thats a good move?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto has 11 DP
already. If he had been hitting even adequately, leave him in. The problem is that Fukudome can’t even make contact and them we depend on Theriot who was having a bad hair day. No one on the bench to pitch hit also put us in a hole.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so 11 DP
in 170 or so PA’s
meaning there was about a 6.5% chance of him grounding into a DP
and about a 67% chance of making an out
while a sac bunt is a 98% chance of making an out
how is this a good play?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because
it almost guarantees putting the runner in scoring position.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 14, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it DECREASES your RUN PROBABILITY
what is so hard about this to understand….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably because
he can’t bunt and didn’t want a potential GIDP.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Adding insult to injury...
the pitcher who dominated the Cubs today, Swarzyck…he got sent back to the minors after the game.
by Wildpitch on Jun 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
linebrink got dfa'd
after beating us a few years back
by tim815 on Jun 13, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's because he gave up so many runs in his outing, right?
I mean, who expects the 2009 Cubs to rack up that many on a guy?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind trading Fukudome away
he just can’t hit for a full season.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it takes 2 to trade
if he can’t play, why on earth would anyone else want him?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe somebody feels like they can fix him
Rudy Jaramillo has been known to resurrect players. Maybe the rangers would do a fukudome/blalock swap.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blalock has hit 13 homers this season and is only playing DH
first, I don’t want yet ANOTHER injury prone guy on this roster. Secondly, why would the Rangers give up a power bat, for someone they MIGHT be able to fix?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers only have 2 hits today
one out one on bottom 8. It’s frigging contagious!
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, botom 9
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Final score:
White Sox 7, Brewers 1.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
even the brewers scored a run today.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a meaningless run in the ninth inning.
Corey Hart made an out on one pitch to end the game.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DId you see whou drove in the Brewer's run? Yep, our boy Casey lol
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez.
Even Casey McGehee would be better than Aaron Miles. Here you have a converted catcher who the Brewers are playing at SECOND BASE.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's hitting .311 this year, McGehee is.
Do you think we should try to get him?
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many PAs?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
61 ABs
http://www.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=431171
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, God
Here we go again …
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just answering a question
Jeebus.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There actually was somebody
on a game thread a few nights ago pining for McGehee.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now we know just how bad things have gotten
if ANYONE is pining for McGehee.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simply curious
Take it easy, buddy.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately:
Another final score: Cardinals 3, Indians 1.
Say what you like, but I wouldn’t cheer for the Cardinals even if Hell froze over. The White Sox I can cheer for, but the Cardinals: never.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if the Cards are playing the Brewers
on the last game of the season and theCubs need that Brewer loss to cause the Cubs to win a playoff spot?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if the Cardinals winning will benefit the Cubs will I cheer for them.
Otherwise, no go. This goes back to 2006. In that terrible season in July, I was at a Cubs-Cardinals game at Wrigley. After the Cubs won, some Cardinals fans threw chewing gum in my general direction.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I figured you really meant
I root for the Cubs and the team currently playing the W Sox, EXCEPT if it’s a team ahead of said Cubs in the standings!
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Card fans
“After the Cubs won, some Cardinals fans threw chewing gum in my general direction.”
(sarcasm on)
Really! Surely not the best fans in baseball!"
(sarcasm off)
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!
Hey Chicago what do you say,
The Cubs are gonna win today!
by revtrh on Jun 13, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Between StL and Milw I'd have to root for StL
The Brewers still strike me as a bunch of smart alecky punk asses concerned about baggy pants and untucked shirts as much as anything else. That’s not to say I still don’t have a problem with the Cards’ weasel of a skipper and their smug fanbase – but at least the Cards have actually won something to justify their attitude.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly how I feel.
It sucks when some other team gives you the middle finger, but when it’s got a World Series ring on it, you really can’t say much.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on Jun 13, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Change guesses
Coach / Manager / GM change: I wouldn’t call Perry’s job “safe”, but I refuse to think this bad offense is his fault. First guess, in this category, is Lou resigning. Maybe one or more of his coaches would resign too.
Big Trade: First and only guess is this would involve a starting pitcher, either Wells, Harden or maybe Marshall, being traded for a position player.
Enough Is Enough: In this category, the guess is Fukudome has worn out his welcome. He goes somewhere, like to AAA or back to Japan. Last year they were winning and, in a sense, could afford to ride it out with him. Always thought it was ridiculous to make acquiring Bradley a priority, probably second only to signing Dempster, and then giving Fukudome prime time in CF.
Interleague games are at Wrigley, so I don’t think changes revolve around bringing-in a DH type like Fox at this point.
If Deep Goat knows about changes, then he should at least be sure of the plural and know at least 1 side, either who is coming or who is going.
by AboutTheCubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i want the Cubs to send Fukudome to AAA
he needs to go back to the basics.
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily.
All I know is that “changes” are coming. Possibly “plural”, yes. But that’s all I know as of now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can share this
Al,
What’s the wildest rumor you’ve heard confirmed from a source of yours that turned out being false?
I believe this one for sure but I’d love to hear the false ones you’ve heard.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coaches getting fired many times
have nothing to do with whether or not the poor performance of the players if their “fault”. You simply can’t fire all of the players performing poorly so they team brings in a different “voice”.
It’s very unfair since coaches are the lowest paid part of a MLB team and have the least security.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you mean
against my make up to root for the Sux, but it’ll have to do this weekend.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do yourself a favor
Don’t do what I did and look at the NL Central standings.
Despite being 3.5 games out….last place is only 6 games out.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well
at least no one’s run away with it yet, right?
thats encouraging, right?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm trying
but i’ve running low on faith for weeks now.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers Lose , Cards win
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am getting this bad
feeling that Soto was a “one-hit wonder” in 2009.
Apparently, he is only able to hit pop-ups to the shallow outfield, or takes called 3rd strikes.
It is not the same guy.
He threw out one runner today, but, his inability to pick up a ball thrown into the dirt by Harden, was responsible for a runner reaching second, and then on Mauer’s single, he came home.
However, with the execption of Albert Pujols, it is a team game, and with the Cubs now at the bottom of the entire majors in success with RISP, it will be difficult for them to right this flailing ship.
WHERE IS THE OFFENSE?!!
by The E-Man on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2008 was our shot
face it
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And they come only once a century?
Its preemptive to call this season over. Its asinine to act like next year couldn’t be “our shot” even if this season isn’t.
We are a big market team with new incoming ownership and a plethora of players that have shown a history of good play. Changes could be coming tomorrow, and maybe this season is “our shot”. Changes will surely come in the off season. Maybe next year is “our shot”. 2008 was nothing more than “a shot” just like every season.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you really only 25?
You show more reason and wisdom than a lot of older posters here.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, really "only" 25.
Doesn’t feel like “only” though. Just did a three mile run along the lake, and i can’t move from the neck down. And i’m grumpy because the concert i’m going to tonight is all ages. Damn kids, all up on my lawn…
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
you sound like me.
took my dog to the beach yesterday…she’s all bouncy and i’m like “ugh, dead”.
i’m 24. :-P
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons