Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before: Cubs Bats Impotent In 2-0 Loss To Twins
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:04 PM CDT
in Recaps
763 comments
Instead of a simple recounting of today's game, I'm going to start this recap with some information from Deep Goat.
Word is that there may be some "changes" as soon as tomorrow. I don't know the nature of the "changes" -- could be anything from trades to minor league/major league roster moves to changes in the coaching staff (if it were up to my friend Phil, he'd fire Gerald Perry, but I don't think that's going to happen; he said "Book it", but remember he also said "Book it" to Alfonso Soriano starting at 2B today and that didn't happen).
Speculate away; I only have the word that "changes" are coming.
Whatever they do, I hope it doesn't involve the pitching staff, because today the staff was again outstanding. Rich Harden returned from the DL and really made only one significant mistake, the pitch that Jason Kubel deposited on Sheffield (and yes, this time I'm sure it made the street, confirmed by ballhawk). Otherwise three dinky little singles resulted in the Twins' other run in a 2-0 Cubs shutout loss to Minnesota, their fourth loss in a row and the fifth time they have been shut out this year.
The bullpen also kept the game close; Jose Ascanio, Sean Marshall (why is Marshall being used in a close game when he could be useful in extra innings?) and Kevin Gregg threw three innings of hitless ball, but the Twins' pitchers matched it. The Cubs made Anthony Swarzak look like Greg Maddux today; he had Cub hitters off-balance all day, getting four called strikeouts (out of six total K's) and otherwise getting them to beat the ball into the ground. Matt Guerrier and Joe Nathan finished up; when Derrek Lee's line drive went off Joe Crede's glove in the last of the ninth, I thought, "At last, a break and a bit of luck!", but despite having the tying run in scoring position with one out, Kosuke Fukudome and Ryan Theriot couldn't bring the runners home.
Kosuke Fukudome. Let's talk about Dome, who is having exactly the same season he had last year -- two good months and then falling off the table. After today's horrendous performance -- 0-for-4 with two strikeouts, including nearly screwing himself into the ground in the 9th inning vs. Nathan -- he is hitting .152/.282/.212 in June. Yes, that's not a misprint -- that's a .212 slugging percentage. At this point Fukudome's best position is probably "bench"; send Reed Johnson out there and let him play CF for a week or so. Alfonso Soriano, down to .233 and hitting nearly as poorly as Fukudome this month (.174/.269/.370), needs a day off. I'd suggest giving him tomorrow off and starting Micah Hoffpauir in LF; after tomorrow the Cubs don't play till Tuesday night, which would give Soriano three full days to rest.
In his postgame remarks Lou seemed like his brain was waterlogged from the moderate rain that delayed the start of today's game by 32 minutes. His answers to the usual questions ranged from, "What do you want me to do?" to "I don't want to talk about that." Not exactly what we've come to expect from the guy who used to snap at reporters, "You saw the damn game!" Lou's losing it and the whole team is suffering, partly as a result. After today's pitching performance the team ERA sits at 3.87, still fourth in the NL but just behind the Reds at 3.85. Keep that up and many games will be won.
Finally, at this writing the Brewers are losing to the White Sox 6-0; if that holds up the Cubs remain only 3.5 games behind (two in the loss column). It's still anyone's division. Keep the faith.
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Keep the faith indeed.
It’s about all we’ve got at this point.
by Emelie on Jun 13, 2009 4:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I also have
a lot of frustration… that’s not nothing
"This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outta here." --Michael Scott
by Reddevil on Jun 13, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
I’ll be interested in what the changes are going to be, but I fear it may be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I hope that Piniella is at least considering sitting Soriano for a couple of days.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about for a long while?
You can’t continue to play with hitters that refuse to change their approach. Ever.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 13, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to keep the faith...
But it’s just so hard with this offense. I hope Deep Goat is right and there are some changes made, at this point something has to be done. And what the hell is it about June that sends Dome spiraling (pun intended) into suckville?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dome
is just not that good, and we are stuck with him. What a shame.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's shown the...
Skills and tools to be a good player for two months, could it be a mental thing that causes him to falter? I just don’t get it.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ump today
seemed to have a bizarre strikezone. Santo said that Dome was “jittery” at the plate, and looked like he was “trying to find himself”. He’s not keeping his shoulder down long enough.
I say we fly his hitting coach back here now, and not wait till July.
I think he gets nervous just like any other player does when the team as a whole isn’t hitting well, and he presses. It’s no different than anyone else, he’s just got a distinctive swing when he does it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's been our best hitter this season....
i understand we’re judging the recent time more harshly than the total season because of last year’s fall-off but Dome really is focusing on the wrong point of the equation
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome
11 for 66 since May 30th, best hitter. I guess you could say that, because the team has been so horrible. Guess you can pick someone, but Dome looks like he will fall into the same situation like last year. He looks like a 10Million liability to me.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DLee has had a good May and June
And Soto believe it or not had solid hitting May. Not in June…
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging Fukudome is tricky...
He had an awesome April and a pretty productive May. But he has slumped terribly in June. The question is whether this is a repeat of last year, or just a slump. But are very real possibilities.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's good after consecutive days off
He slumped after Johnson started for like 5 days I feel like.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this...
I had a bad feeling he would cool down after that.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
apparently he's slumped too
since his Japanese hitting coach returned to the island a couple of weeks. Least that’s what I’ve heard, and his form certainly suffered for it.
by Emelie on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with his contract
he should be able to pay to keep the hitting coach here all season
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could Al
WHY would Lou/Hendry change 40% of a 97 win team, sign a player like Bradley (problems), NOT re-sign Wood and DeRosa, etc……
by questdoc on Jun 13, 2009 4:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is that saying about hindsight...?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 13, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a lot of us knew at the time before it became hindsight
It’s just been a given..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on Jun 13, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they made changes
because they won 0 games in the postseason?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
A lot of us said this at the beginning of the season.
wccubfan
by wccubfan on Jun 13, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a lot of good
that 97-win team did last postseason, did it?
Most of the key players from that team are on this one. Lack of Wood and the beloved almighty one aren’t why this team is scuffling.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa would help.
Now, I know this is going to start off a firestorm of you calling me a “DeRomantic”, but the fact is, having him at 2B right now instead of Scales/Miles/the beer vendor, or at 3B with Fontenot at 2B, would be far better than what we’ve had since Ramirez went down.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't make much of a difference
when virtually everbody else is scuffling, Al.
That series against the Indians next weekend is going to be unbearable.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's to say whether one guy might not have made a difference?
All I’m saying is that those of us who would like DeRosa back are NOT saying that for sentimental reasons.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the one guy is A-Rod, that's one thing
I don’t think DeRo is going to be confused with A-Rod anytime soon. Except, perhaps, in the minds of some delusional fans.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one's called him
“the best ever” at least not that I’ve seen…
All everyone seems to be saying is “Man, that deal looks bad right now”.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone is saying that.
All we’re saying is that a guy with his versatility could have helped this team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if everybody was playing according to specs,
even with Ramirez out, the point would be moot.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
But they’re not, which is why changes are likely coming.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be interested to see what (if any) moves are made...
and what impact said moves will have. I have trouble seeing much that can be added or subtracted to make a real difference.
Perhaps some tweaking of the bullpen? Benching Fukudome for a bit? I can’t see Piniella actually moving Soriano back to the infield.
But ultimately, it comes down to the guys on the field producing. In April, Soriano, Ramirez and Fukudome were hitting but nobody else. In May, Lee, Theriot and Fukudome were hitting. In June, it seems to be just Lee (with occasional signs of life from Soto and Fontenot).
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope
miles is gone
patton is gone
bo$$
by lexmarklover on Jun 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just not sure either move will make a big difference...
Nobody within the organization is going to wildly improve the team’s fortunes in place of those guys.
Perhaps if Fox was called up and somehow proved he could play 3B, it could have an impact. But the options just seem limited.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously?
patton is the reason we can’t score?
let’s replace him with a really expensive guy that used to be kinda good.
that’s how we ended up with miles.
if you want to dl patton until one of the other pitchers gets hurt, that isn’t foolish. but it would be really shortsighted to jettison a future cheap arm just ’cuz we only have two guys that can hit.
by tim815 on Jun 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patton may not be the problem with the offense
but he’s taking up a roster spot that another hitter could be using(Fox) and Lou has shown time and time again that he doesn’t trust him and will only put him in if he absolutely have to. This team isn’t good enough to play with 24 guys
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nor is it good enough to win
with 26 or
27 if it can’t hit
by tim815 on Jun 13, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is why we need 13 pitchers less than we do 13 hitters
thus Patton is expendable
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please tell me where this doesn't fit in the line up?
Mark DeRosa 60 238 41 66 11 0 10 107 42 24 50 0 1 .277 .348 .450 .798
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KC, not you, too
It’s like I’ve walked into a scene from “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you see what's happened?
You’ve railed on this so much that now people are trying to explain to you how his output would help the Cubs’ offense.
Honestly, you really would be better off just letting this drop.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NBF - it's called "sunk cost". The trade is history.
Forget for a moment the trade ever happened. Focus instead on the present where the Cubs offense is in triage, and 3B is probably its biggest gaping wound. If you wanted to heal that wound, do you not see that Mark DeRosa fills the bill very well? He plays the position, his numbers are decent, he has a good history with the club (i.e. not going to be a clubhouse cancer) and Indians are going nowhere. Oh, and once ARam comes back, DeRosa has the versatility to contribute elsewhere.
On paper it makes pretty good sense, so why wouldn’t it make sense to pursue it further? There’s no romance here, just common sense. What part of that don’t you get?
Now I would readily agree that there are other possible answers out there. So if you just can’t stomach the thought of DeRosa back in a Cubs uniform, then instead of harping on your so-called DeRomantics (which btw, I wish you would identify. Your recent posts have taken on a KOW-like “some people say” tendency. So far I have only seen logical posts from Al, Allie, Southern, Dartmouth, CubsBullsBears, Shanghai, KC and myself to name several), howsabout offering up some other solutions?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 14, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's the greatest player on earth
and will make everything better in Cubbieland. I have no doubt. You’ve all convinced me.
What a pathetic waste of time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, Ahab
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I’m finally coming out of “shock”, since this happened. Even the TV gurus siad that the Cubs were not going to be as good a team as last year, because of the trades.. I don’t think it’s “hindsight”. So many knowledgeable people (Leave Hendry out of the list) couldn’t be that wrong.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This franchise
needs a wake-up call. For years the front office has tried to fill their holes with expensive FAs, with not much success at all. Yet, they keep on truckin’ along with the same philosophy that has failed them season after season. How about emulating franshises that have won by building from within? It doesn’t matter anyway, cause they have guys like Bradley, Sori, Lee, and Fukudome bogging down their salary structure. Way to have some foresight Jim!!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It might happen if/when the ownership situation is resolved
Depending on how emboldened the new owner feels, the team of Kenney/Hendry/Piniella could be swept out and replaced by a whole new regime that would have the courage and (hopefully) the intelligence to undertake a proper rebuilding. Which I wouldn’t necessarily mind this because I think a younger, fresher presence in charge of things is ultimately needed.
The reliance on veteran FAs started with Soriano. Keep in mind that it happened at a time when the Cubs were seeking instant credibility after years of Andy MacPhail’s super-conservative approach. And because John McDonough was intent on righting the ship as quick as possible, he elected to authorize spending on free agents instead of trading for prospects and gradually improving the team for the long-term.
Unfortunately those signings have come with downsides. Soriano is a streaky hitter and an interesting fielder. Lee’s extension included an NTC. Dome is again having problem sustaining success past the month of May. Bradley has a history of injuries and anger issues. Not to mention the lengthy years and salary bumps of the other contracts on the roster.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without much success?!?!
Playoffs two years in a row for the first time since forever.
97 wins and the best offense in the National League last year.
That is way more success than I am used to with the Cubs.
by vonde6 on Jun 14, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t get too used to it, vonde 6. It sure isn’t going to happen again, this year!
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, this was a painful game.
I don’t care how much we are paying players, if they aren’t performing, they need to sit or go to the minors. Sending Fox and Scales down after the way they have performed is ludicrous. I’m not sure if Lou’s post-game give-up is the chicken or the egg. The players appear lackluster and Bradley’s shrugging off of his multiple boneheaded plays yesterday is offensive, and should offend any true Cubs fan. I am frustrated. Will be there next Saturday and Sunday and am hoping these guys find a little fire by then.
On the bright side, I could not be more admiring of the pitching staff, which has stepped up and offered consistency when it would be possible to feel down. Also, Pat Hughes gave your By the Numbers book a shout-out, naming you and the other authors and recommending that people buy it.
by dfrancon on Jun 13, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
P.S. Think we can kidnap DeRo and Woody back while they're in town next weekend?
by dfrancon on Jun 13, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd vote for that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's kidnap
every fan who keeps pining for them instead. And send them far, far away.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets send away fans
who insist nothing is wrong and can’t understand team chemistry
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have some bad news for you
You are about the only one here who feels this way. 10,000 posts from you saying otherwise is not going to change anyone’s opinion. Dero would be an upgrade over what we have now. The end. Maybe it wouldn’t make the team win the division but it would be a better team than currently constructed. Especially when Aram gets back.
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think dude has ever debated that DeRo is better than our current 2B options...
… i think he’s taking issue with the lamenting whats done, or the idea that we should get him back when there has been no indication that either side is actually interested in that.
I understand the sentiment. He’s like the hot girlfriend we dumped for an even HOTTER girl, but the hotter girl turned out to be a jerk and the original decided to cut her hair, work out twice as hard and hit 11 points over the league average at her position. Whoops.
The whole “bring him back” thing is a bit suspect to me, though. Do we know he’d WANT to come back after we dumped him (yes, i’m seriously inquiring if there is knowledge of the terms he left on)? What would we have to give up to get him, being that his stats are ALL up over last season at this point? Its all very abstract and remote.
Until there is some indication we could actually get him back, its much more productive to consider the problems the players who are actually on our roster are having. There is a happy place between the “DeRomantics” and NBF’s position.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has actually...
… been some internal discussion at the Cubs about bringing him back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one can only hope that is true..
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on Jun 13, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about bringing him back...
MORON AKA Jim Hendry…..didn’t want to deal with “contract year” issues…….what he failed to realize is … PLAY IT OUT……. “good players” AKA “winners” …like to show off in their contract years……… it’s a problem this years Cubs need…..
It was a no lose for MORON……KEEP DeRosa…..he has a good year…and hes too expensive …let him go….. he has a “OK” year….oh well … don’t resign him…..
Meanwhile….point me out some Cubs w/ stats like this:
Mark DeRosa 60 238 41 66 11 0 10 107 42 24 50 0 1 .277 .348 .450 .798
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calling someone a derogatory name doesn't help your argument.
In fact, you lose credibility by calling someone names instead of using facts to make an argument.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 14, 2009 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim....
The days of NCAA baseball at creighton are over….
And if thts not how you feel….please quit NOW
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what you're talking about.
What does the state of Creighton baseball have to do with the 2009 Cubs, Jim Hendry or Mark DeRosa?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 14, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
....
1. Moron is “vaguely” a derogotory term.
2. My dissatisfaction of Mr. Hendry’s moves diddn’t magicaly appear in my head yesterday.
3. Jim Hendry was Creightons AD just b4 becomming McFail’s Asst. w/ the Cubs…..
It’s sorta u know…an underhanded insult that he’s in kinda over his head………
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess what I was trying to say
is that he isn’t going to change anyone’s mind no matter how many times he tells us to quit thinking that way.
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so...
… but you clearly aren’t gonna convince NBF to stop beating the drum on the other side. And you both have some valid points. So… agree to disagree?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the plug...
… did anyone here record the game? If so, could you clip out the audio and send me a .mp3 clip of it? Kasey is going to do that, but he’s out of town this week, and I’d love to have it now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lmao
don’t you hate when that happens?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So many spots for a TWSS
So little time
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Clutch 16: Where did you find that Charlie Root quote. I’ve never seen it before, but I love it!
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I picked that particular quote off the 'net somewhere
However, Root always disputed the story of the called shot, and said the same thing in different ways. The one which Wikipedia documents here from “Root for the Cubs” goes:
“Ruth did not point at the fence before he swung. If he had made a gesture like that, well, anybody who knows me knows that Ruth would have ended up on his ass. The legend didn’t get started until later.”
Ruth said, variously, that he did or did not call the shot. Root (and many historians) believed that the gesture was intended for the Cubs bench, who had been razzing him all game long. Ruth gave as good as he got, so he was yapping right back, probably with an added bat motion.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 14, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Root For The Cubs" is an excellent read
After reading Al’s synopsis here on BCB I bought a copy and took it with me on vacation last month. Very entertaining and insightful! It’s a look back at the 1929 team with Charlie Root’s season as the main arc of the book.
Charlie Root’s daughter, Della Root Arnold, contributed lots of photos and anecdotes about her parents. It was as much fun to read about Dorothy Root (Charlie’s wife) as Charlie – she was quite the little spitfire.
by CaliCub on Jun 14, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanx CaliCub: Will check it out on ebay.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say what was more fun today
Following the game (not broadcast here of course) on the computer or a crazy fight between my neighbors in which the police came twice in one hour and I think they are back.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 13, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The results of the fight
were probably unpredictable. Regrettably, the game was never in doubt.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is where I make a bad joke
about your nieghbors having more punch than the Cub bats…
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jun 13, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Count it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Changes?
What can you do when your whole lineup besides Lee is not hitting. There is no one at AAA that can help this team. Trades? who? Anyone want Dome’s contract? How about Miles? 5 years on Soriano’s contract, anyone? Please someone take Milton, uh, no thanks.
Call me pessimistic at this point, but I can not see this team turning it around offensively.
You get rid of Blanco, Edmonds, Wood, DeRosa and add Gathright, Bako, Miles, and Bradley, and Gregg this is what it is. Granted payroll had to be shaved, but to add these pieces was poorly put to together.
Hey the players have to get it done, but for 25 games now this offense has been horrible. I can see a week or 10 games of this but a month?
To me Lou needs to go, unfortunately that is not going to happen. This team is so tight, it is not funny, change is needed in leadership.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Payroll actually increased.
We were one of only 3 teams, I believe, that increased our payroll.
It pains me to say, but I’m starting to realize that I agree with your comment regarding Lou. Some of his moves lately have been bizarre. He just doesn’t seem into it.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 13, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All-star break
If Lou hasn’t turned this losing culture around by then, he should certainly be fired. It’s pretty sad that the Cubs won’t be able to trade anyone at the deadline; all their players that are underperforming have unmovable contracts. So much for having a backup plan Lou and Jim!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
If not having Blanco, Edmonds, Wood and DeRosa are the reason this team is in the tank, it wasn’t that good in the first place.
I realize tough times cause emotional reactions rather than rational ones, but pull it together.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget about Blanco, Edmonds & Wood for a moment.
This has nothing to do with “emotional reactions” and everything to do with the fact that Mark DeRosa is a useful, versatile baseball player who produces on the field.
I would suggest that it is YOU who is having the “emotional reaction” with your knee-jerk posts every time someone mentions his name.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, Al,
when his name is mentioned almost every day, almost non-stop, that’s kind of what happens.
I’m sorry if you’re greatly offended by my reaction to it, but I’d say the constant bedwetting about him is misguided and bordering on childish. Appropriate, I guess, for the most neurotic fan base in professional sports.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said above...
… I think you mischaracterize the desire of some of us to have DeRosa. It has nothing to do with sentiment and everything to do with production.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps your view is that way, Al,
but I’d suggest a lot of people’s isn’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I dunno.
What say the rest of you who want DeRosa back?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
production and flexibility
kerry was about sentimentality (mostly)
derosa was about the production and the return via trade (which was AWFUL for a guy going to be Type A)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
Kevin Gregg has actually done a decent job, especially recently.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Initially it was probably sentiment...
But now with no backup 3rd baseman, and lack of versatility, we need what he can provide… which is a solid bat and above-average defense at a number of positions.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want him back
I thought it was a dumb trade the day it happened. His flexibility and production has not been replaced by any stretch of the imagination.
Kerry was my favorite Cub, so I have to be honest that a portion of my dislike of the trade was emotional. But, I also thought that they didn’t upgrade by the trade. Sure, he has a history of injury, but I felt that he had turned the corner and was a reliable pitcher.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOTTA AGREE WITH BIG JOHN........
I think both Wood and DeRo were a loss for this ball club…..Only History will so show us how much,,,,,This club has to get back on it’s feet…..Lou has a mess on his hannd…..
by cubs north on Jun 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely versatility and production...
Granted, I don’t think he’d be a savior. But he’d bump Fontenot back to 2B and cover up that sub-.600 OPS from 2B this year.
I’d really take any capable-hitting 3B. DeRosa just happens to be an obvious example because he was here last year.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even without the greatest Cub ever,
this team still should be much better than it’s played.
DeRosa had a career year, is 34-35 years old and not likely to replicate those numbers. I don’t blame Hendry for trading him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's replicating them right now
once you adjust for league
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Not likely"
What about that is difficult to understand? And will he keep it up?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he posted
practically the same numbers for 3 years running with improving peripherals, what wasn’t likely about it?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not getting any younger,
for one thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a 1 year deal
not 3 or 4… expecting his production to be similar for 1 year was actually quite likely
it would have been unlikely for him to just fall off the table like you seem to suggest
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
He would make virtually NO difference on the current team. Unless he has some secret potion that will make six-seven other guys swing the bats better.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, he might
Clearly something is lacking in the team clubhouse. I’m not saying DeRosa would instantly turn six-seven guys into Silver Sluggers, but he (or someone like him) could very well be the spark that could jumpstart 2 or 3 of the underachievers.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was OK with the DeRo move in the offseason
For the reasons you cite — he is getting old, and the Cubs needed to free some salary. However much I liked him — and despite the real value of a multi-position, good-hitting player like DeRo — it is not insane to unload an aging, expensive player after a career year.
That said, dropping a decent bat into the weak spots of this lineup — 3B or 2B — might have a ‘relaxation effect’ that could really change things. Team hitting is weird, with as much to do with psychology as technique, and right now our team sphincters are locked-up. DeRo — or any other guy or two that could come here and produce a few hits — could change the mindset. (And that’s why we could not afford to send down Fox, one of the few working bats.)
Losing ARam was far bigger than ARam’s bat alone for similar reasons in that it took a first-class bat out of a borderline set of hitters; The hitting then collapsed. But something has to change, or we will hit a lot worse that we should for the whole year.
by cubmudgeon on Jun 14, 2009 6:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What made no sense to me about it was
The players they got back weren’t going to help the Cubs win now. It was an attempt to stock the farm system, which is only necessary because they obviously don’t know how to build it from within.
Pretty unusual for a team with championship aspirations to make a trade for the future.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 14, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So damned if you do,
damned if you don’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't either
I wish we’d gotten more for him, but I understood and didn’t hate the trade.
But right now, with everyone playing so poorly, the holes DeRosa could be filling look more glaring than they would be everyone were playing up to their career numbers.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to be the only one saying "Greatest Cub Ever"
Perhaps you’re the DeRomantic?
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
The way people talk about him, here and elsewhere, the name fits perfectly.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
once again
presented evidence above that it was about production (from multiple users) and you choose to ignore it
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get over it
Trading him was not a bad idea, and he isn’t coming back.
Like I said, next weekend’s games are going to be unbearable, with all the gnashing of teeth and wailing about DeRo the Hero.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
get over what?
you’re the one being proven incorrect with your exaggeration and refusing to let go
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Refusing to let it go?
A bunch of pots are calling the kettle black, evidently.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your the one who keeps bringing him up
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What will you say if he is back on the team this year?
by LT on Jun 13, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, for one thing,
I’ll be stunned.
Of course, if he is, I hope he does well. But I suspect you and many others would be disappointed.
I’m pretty sure this fervor would not take place among any other fan base in baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be so sure about that.
In a similar situation, I’m guessing a lot of teams’ fans would like to have a productive player, dumped for no apparently good reason, back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must say
I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. Pretty pathetic.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then why don't you go cheer....
for another team!!!!
Thank You.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 13, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you have to love DeRosa
or find another team?
I think I’ll appreciate how DeRosa played for the Cubs while still focusing on the current club, thanks.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say a word about DeRo!
I think the pressure is getting to ya.
Maybe take a break from this board for a few days…er, I mean weeks.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jun 13, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
you should take a permanent one.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just looking for....
BETTER than the 13th best offense in th NL
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You wildy misrepresent people's views on DeRosa...
I’m sorry that you can’t seem to grasp the real reason people would prefer DeRosa (or some other capable hitting utility option).
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then let's hear about
some of those other options, shall we?
By and large, in the general Cubs fan community, I don’t think I"m misrepresenting a thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the "general cub fan community"
IS acting the way you’re thinking
but those HERE aren’t. Taking their heads off doesn’t make sense.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not taking their heads off
It’s just a waste of energy at this point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, you are...
based on the discussion in this thread.
We’ve gone through this before. I’m not in the mood to repeat the same thing over again. You’re a broken record.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As are you
So quit replying to my posts. Here and elsewhere.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll keep replying to whom I choose...
I’m not the one belittling other people’s posts.
by SouthernCub on Jun 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's keep the sniping out of it.
OK?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're the one
Who sees fit to reply to anyone who expresses any wish for having back a good hitting 2B/3B by calling them illogical and suggesting that it doesn’t make a difference to the team because everyone else is sucking. How can you say that? You can’t tell me that sending DeRo up there instead of Fuk tonight might not have resulted in a tie game or at least a run. You can’t say that because you, just like the rest of us, have no idea what would happen in that situation. We’re basing our lamentations on that trade on the fact that DeRo’s stats (this year and last) are above and beyond our current 2B options… yet, you ignore this evidence and assume we’re all just crazy emotional fans who don’t understand baseball.
by hmlee on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And here comes
the romanticism. Right on cue.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not think that word means
what you think it does.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allie, I think the definition of it
is extremely apropos.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce
Don’t let the one-man debunking of DeRosa dictate all your posts. You have many other good things to say and lots of other perspectives to share. Be the bigger guy and let it go.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good advice, CaliCub
It’s just been going on since Opening Day, and I should just let them rant. I’ll try to restrain myself form now on.
I guess this means I won’t be joining the crowd of Cubs fans at O’Hare next Thursday night to welcome the Indians’ plane and the return of their hero.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And thank you
for your kind words.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're off base here
I agree with a lot of what you say, but you’re taking this to a far more ridiculous extreme than what you are accusing others of doing.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the subject
keeps coming up, over and over agian.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, ignore it then.
You’ve got some kind of misplaced frustration over this. No one is saying he was the greatest Cub ever, just that he would have helped. Do you really think that’s not true?
I agree that he’s not coming back. I agree that they’ve got what they’ve got. But, I’d rather hear, “we should have kept DeRosa” than “Crap, the season’s over.”
You’d feel better if you dropped the crusade. And I think what’s going to happen, unfortunately, is people are going to start to miss valid points that you have because of the tone that you’re taking lately regarding this issue.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm one of the few
Who also believe that having Derosa wouldn’t amount to much with the way this team hits. But yes its a dead horse and we are in the minority.
by jeff_pico on Jun 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your reply to my
post was actually the thing that was right on cue. Actually, I think it might be a record for you. 60 seconds flat.
by hmlee on Jun 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have never left...
I’m not into man crushes. I personally just felt that the Cubs were basically paying double for that production by signing Milton Bradley instead, just to say the team was more left-handed.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for me it's production
he’s a likable guy, to be sure, but I’m with you, Al, on the versatility front.
by Emelie on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't DeRosa per se, it was the lack of a formidable replacement
Had the Cubs signed Orlando Hudson or dealt for The Oriole That Must Not Be Named, they’d be better off than with the dynamic duo of Miles and Scales. Or if a more creative means of payroll management were used, then the Greatest Cub Ever could have stayed and helped keep things afloat in the wake of the ARam injury.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa added valuable diversity
at almost every position. The additions of Miles and Hill have proven to be terrible decisions. We ended up moving a platoon 2B to full time 3B and caused both 3B and 2B to be subprime. We have the same problem with Fukudome and only now is Bradley seeming to strike the ball. DeRosa was that one in a million supersub that caused many of the dominoes to fall.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then he should be
the highest-paid player in baseball. Sorry, not buying it.
And I promise, that’s my last word on the subject. For now, anyway. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The highest-paid player in baseball?
To replace a poor choice as his replacement? Hardly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's a one-in-a-million supersub
you’re darned right he should be the highest-paid player in MLB. Those guys don’t grown on trees, right?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd want him back.
The reason we go on and on about DeRo is that we had him. It’s one thing to keep talking about Brian Roberts or Jake Peavey. We never had them. But DeRosa was here. And Hendry didn’t improve the team when he got Bradley. He just replaced DeRosa’s offense with Bradley’s (only on paper, unfortunately.) The thing that concerns me is that we want the same guy who made such poor moves the last couple of seasons to make more. I have little confidence that he has the ability to evaluate talent to significantly improve this team.
"Any old kind of a run wins it!"--Jack Brickhouse
by mattvegas on Jun 14, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly am with you, Al. It’s so much easier to skip over NBF’s posts than to get upset by them. By the way, what’s your take on Soto’s decline this year. Is there really a sophmore jinx or were he and Henry Blanco joined at the hip? Maybe, he should have stayed, too.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't understand getting rid of a utility man who could play solid if not great defense
everywhere on the diamond except pitcher and catcher, and who’s bat only improved the long he was here. It had nothing to do with sentimentality. It had everything to do with the trade not making baseball sense the day it was done, and makes even less sense now.
That trade forced us, or we chose (which is worse) to depend on Mike Fontenot, and Aaron Miles. It was a dumb decision, and an incredibly odd one considering the kind of production Derosa had just delivered. What’s worse, is he’s having the same type of season again. So if Jim was banking on last year being a one year wonder type season for DeRosa, he was terribly wrong.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
UR the manager NOT BRUCE.....
Miles aand DeRo are on the roster….
Who u startin at 2B?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Trillo
What do you think about that? :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What part of 42 RBI's.....
…..does any CUB have?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
by kcjones on Jun 14, 2009 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Al
nothing more frustrating then someone who is wrong and can’t admit it
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 13, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You DeRo fans
would know.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know, I've heard you claim over and over that having him here would change nothing
with absolute conviction, while us “Dero fans” have only said it MIGHT be better, what exactly is your proof that having him on the roster would change nothing? Especially considering that our major problem isn’t getting on base, it’s getting someone in once they get on base.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 13, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also might be better, and more realistic,
with someone else.
Why just DeRo or zero?
And I’d say getting runners on base is a fairly big problem, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
still haven't answered the question
why are you so certain DeRo wouldn’t help this roster?
Dero is mentioned time and again because he was actually on the roster, and as many have said, there have been internal discussions within the Cubs organization to get him back
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 14, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al
Upon further review, it sure seems you were the one who was picking a fight with me. I didn’t single out DeRo, you did.
If your goal was to generate traffic, congratulations. Otherwise, I’m not sure what your point was.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow...
self absorption much?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read his post
and tell me what you think. He’s baiting me all the way.
I would have been perfectly content to let it drop.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emotional no
what they did on the field yes. Ask Soto if Blanco wasn’t a bid influence on him. Soto adimitted how much Hank was a big help. DeRosa did the freaking job, period, I am not in love with the guy. He was valuable, and now we are finding out how much he was.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been saying that about Soto/Blanco all year
Hank White had a lot to do with Soto behind the plate and in the batter’s box. Soto is still young, and to lose Blanco and get the ROY award did more harm than good.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, BigJohnAZ: Thank you for the quote from Jack Brickhouse. It’s nice to know that I’m not the onlly one who admired and respected him, who’s still around.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're Welcome
I remember hearing that on the broadcasts when I was a kid and everyone has seen the replay of the final outs in the 9th inning of the Don Cardwell no hitter. Jack said it during a nervous spot in that inning and I thought, what the heck, that’s a pretty cool line.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget it
It’s hopeless.
Again, I’m glad fans don’t run professional sports franchises.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopeless?
Apparently, you don’t want to acknowledge that there can be factors affecting players that have nothing to do with the player themselves.
Ask Ryan Dempster if it was tougher for him to pitch in April when he had to keep flying back and forth to Phoenix to be with his sick baby… and whether it got easier when the baby was airlifted to Chicago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever, Al
They should have brought back every single player from last year, from Bobby Howry all the way up. That would have been perfect.
I’d suggest there also are a lot more to these decisions than either you or I or anybody else knows about.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cripes.
No one is saying that. Every winning team has to make adjustments.
All we’re saying is that the Cubs made changes based on a faulty assumption: that they lost the NLDS because they didn’t have enough LH hitters. That’s not the reason they lost.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is?
I’d suggest an inability to hit the predominantly right-handed pitching the Dodgers had was not insignificant.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They couldn't hit ANY of the Dodger pitching
The glib reason given (me as much as anyone else) is a case of sphincter-tightening. But I still believe there’s something to it. It was as if every Cub player and every fan in Wrigley were carrying Bartman, Leon Durham, Tommie Agee, the black cat, and Sianis’ goat on their backs.
by CaliCub on Jun 13, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly agree with you
I think there’s a dark cloud over Wrigley Field, and a heavy weight on the people who play there. And I wonder if it might be more heavy than any of us realize.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why...
… the reason the team lost last year is that they were ill-prepared by their manager for postseason play. Did you watch that first game? They looked scared to death.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't wash, Al
What “preparation” should Piniella had done? Most of these guys were in the 2007 postseason, too.
Face it — the expectations and the pressure of this franchise winning a World Series might be too much for anybody to overcome.
It’s something we might not like to admit. But I think it’s something to consider.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I say "preparation"...
… I mean playing the last week of the season, vs. contenders, like the games meant something instead of like spring training games. The pitching used in the season’s final game vs. Milwaukee — when the Cubs could have helped decide their first round opponent — was reprehensible, like a split-squad game in March.
I think the team lost their edge that last week, and that showed in game one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the preparation for that week
was any different than any other team in that situation.
I’m sure if they did what you suggest and they came out flat, you and others would cry that they were tired and should have gotten rest the previous week.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you really think
another game or two would have made them not “scared to death”? I think they would have been scared either way.
This franchise does that to even the best players.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Winning a game would’ve calmed a lot of nerves for that team, but who knows.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree if you mean winning a playoff game
THis was more about not using the regulars as regularly the last week of the season.
And the Cubs in 2007 clinched on the last series of the season. How did that work out?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is simply my opinion
with no stats or facts or inside information to base it on.
I think the Cubs thought they were going to roll through the first round with ease. The last few games of 2008 were meaningless in regards to winning the division. If they had had a brain, they would have won the last game to play the Mets. The Dodgers were on a roll the last month+ of the season and seemed to be peaking.
DeRo hits his jack, we’re up 2-0 and here we go, right? Then Demp gets into trouble and gives up the Loney 4 bagger. You could tell by the reaction of the crowd it sucked everything out of Wrigley. I think this shook them up and their buttholes tightened and they never recovered, just like now, everyone is pressing, pressing, trying to hit 5 run HR’s. They knew they were in a short series and it blew them out of the water.
That’s how I saw it and still do. This year’s squad resembles those 3 games last year. Lou has to PINCH BUNT for a guy. WTF???
Also, for some freaking reason, the Cubs go as Sori goes. When he’s hitting, everyone loosens up. When he’s in one of his good for nothing streaks, he takes half the team with him. You watch, the next game Sori has a good to great offensive game, a bunch of them will chill out and start hitting.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pinch bunt
I completely misread that on the first pass.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 14, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy this arg about bad preparation last year
Unlike 2007, Lou did not have to compete until nearly the last game of the season. He took the opportunity to set up his pitching rotation and rest some of his position players. He was trying for a different outcome than 2007.
I think that there is something to the “extra pressure on the players” theory. Read Bill Simmons description of the Red Sox travails before they finally won the big prize in 2004.
by vonde6 on Jun 14, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
You’re exactly correct.
The pressure of playing for this franchise just might be too much for anybody to bear. Particularly now that the Cubs are alone in their World Series futility.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And remember also...
… Crane Kenney’s bizarre decision to have a priest “bless” the dugout. This took the focus away from the players and put it back on the sideshow. Laugh if you want, but these things DO matter, especially after Lou made a point to focus on baseball only last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 14, 2009 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely
That was absolutely embarrassing. I lost a lot of respect for Crane Kenney because of that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 14, 2009 4:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per Yahoo Sports
the Cubs hit .288 vs. LHP last year and .274 vs. RHP. Pretty close. I think a good portion of the 97 W’s were against RHP, although I don’t have that split.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beating the Marlins in a game in July
isn’t quite like the playoffs, at least as far as the caliber of starters you might face.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The BA vs LHP
was based upon a full season, not an isolated game against the Marlins. Why do you even suggest the two are comparable?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True,
But the Cubs did have some modicum of success vs. righties. I agree with what Van Gundy said the other night after the Magic lost and a reporter asked him about the team’s lack of “experience” in the Finals. He said they’ve played hundreds and hundreds of games, it’s still another game. The Cubs have hit RHP before and some of them hit them pretty well. The Cubs went into a shell offensively after the Loney GS and they look like that now. Are you saying our hitting woes now are because we are only facing righties?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m saying that you’re going to see better pitching in the postseason than you will over the course of the regular season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, in a playoff series, yes
But the Cubs had faced these guys before. It’s not like the Dodgers signed Feller, Koufax and Drysdale for the series. We had our stud pitchers out there as well, but the Dodgers found a way to get hits. The Phillies found a way to beat them. And I think a majority of the bloggers here felt the Cubs were better than the Phils.
The Cubs went into a collective funk all at the same time, sans D Lee. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but
the regular-season games between the Cubs and Dodgers, for the most part, were low-scoring nailbiters that could have gone either way.
Perhaps there’s something bigger here that’s responsible for the problem, as I alluded to earlier.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we outscored them 19 to 18
all told but won 5 of 7. We originally thought they would most likely be low scoring games. We got blown out the first two and only score 1 in the finale. We only score 6 runs total in the 3 games, I don’t think we were expecting to win 2-1 every game.
Unfortunately, we will never know deep down why we lost last year’s playoffs and this year’s offensive woes.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 13, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not "the" reason
But I think it was A reason.
Others being inability to field, pitch or hit…
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
when someone posted a “what would you change” at the end of last year, I said “nothing, this team won 97 games.”
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem was they won 0 postseason games
2 years in a row. Now, maybe they made the wrong changes or maybe last year’s success in the regular season was just a fluke. It’s just so baffling that the offense could be this bad just a year later.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I can’t explain it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's the ultimate "Cubbie Occurrence"?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it can't last forever
statistically, they have to win SOMETIME. That goes for the regular season as much as it goes for the WS.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, these are the Cubs we're talking about.
They take drought to a new level.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey cowsarecool20: Unfortunately, I tend to agree with you.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would think
But this current offensive slide really does defy explanation.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have rolled the dice again with 2008's team this year.
And I am not saying that with 20/20 hindsight. I may have mentioned this same thing to Al during ST but I can’ remember.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 14, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it really has worked out
with Hendry and Lou running the show. Numerous people in baseball , Steve Phillips, Harold Reyonlds and Joe Morgan couldn’t understand the DeRosa move.
But you will dismiss them to I am sure,
It is beyond me how you can sit there and say this team would not be better with DeRosa here.
Miles, Blanco, Scales, and Fontenot, murders row I tell you.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 13, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without necessarily disagree with your overall point...
If Steve Phillips, Harold Reynolds, and Joe Morgan all agree on something, I’m inclined to assume the opposite is probably true.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 13, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's all I need
to convince me it was not a bad idea at the time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 13, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is why DeRosa
will get moved at the deadline to a contending team, ( and it won’t be the Cubs cause we won’t be contending) and he will produce for them.
Just like there is a strong majority of people who couldn’t understand the DeRosa move, and will never change there opinion, you obviously will not either. Thats fine, point is he will score more runs, knock in more runs and hit more homeruns, then Scales, Miles, Blanco and Fontenot, but hey the Cubs don’t need him. Cubs are doing just fine.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 14, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its clear
you dont “need” anything
all the evidence in the world against your opinions and you’ll just dig in deeper
you dont need anyone agreeing with you to dig in your heels
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 14, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole offense stinks.
Derrek Lee is the only one performing at his expected level. We need a star hitter — someone who can drive in runs consistently (to compliment Ramirez and Lee). And our role players aren’t performing nearly as well.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to beat a dead horse...
But Adam Dunn and his production would have been golden right now.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That fills one problem.
But we still have major holes at 2nd, center, and shortstop. Hell, even catcher.
I understand we can’t have an all-star at every position but dammit. These guys averages and production needs to be better than this.
It’s like Jake Fox’s defense … a notch above horrific.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SS isn't too much of a problem
Theriot has been slumping the last few days but he’s won more games for the team than almost every other regular playing right now.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
For anyone who says at this moment, defense is more important than the HR’s and RBI’s scored, I say they haven’t watched the Cubs play in the last 6 weeks.
Seriously, I’d put Jake Fox out there if he could get us 30HR’s this year. I don’t care anymore about the defensive repercussions.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Fox was hitting while he was here. Play him anywhere — LF, 3B, hell, let him catch — just get his bat in the lineup.
Maybe the Cubs can get Dunn anyway. It’s not like the Nats are going anywhere.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I really thought you were going to disagree with me Al!
At what point do you think our starters get frustrated with our guys hitting? And when I say frustrated I hope that guy isn’t Zambrano…
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it works that way.
The pitchers go out and do their jobs. What else can they do? Do they all have to go out and throw shutouts and hit homers themselves?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pitchers are hitting better than the hitters.
Sad. I’d rather have Zambrano in the lineup than some of the regulars.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Triples work too
Ask Lilly :)
All kidding aside, I don’t think there’s too much change that can be done overnight for the team. They have to wake up and realize they’re MLB players and do their damn jobs.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure a really bad infielder can outhit their mistakes
and that is what Jake Fox would be at 3rd base. (if he’s a below average 1st baseman, I shudder to think about how his play at 3rd would be.)
Here’s an example:
As I recall, The Brewers had a better record in 2007 before the called Ryan Braun up. While Braun put up terrific offensive numbers, his defense was terrible. While Braun’s defense wasn’t the only reason for the record, it definitely contributed. Braun was moved to leftfield in the offseason after he was named rookie of the year because of the number of misplays Braun made at 3rd base.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers lost in 2007
Because they had a bullpen that blew leads. It wasn’t just their defense.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense that forces pitchers to get extra outs is significant
and directly related to the success of a pitching staff.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But if I recall the Brewers biggest blow was really bad umps in their games.
It was their series against the Braves. Texeira got called safe in a play he was clearly out on and everything else fell apart for them.
I feel like Ned Yost got ejected 3 games in a row that week and he had legit arguments every game.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...
Didn’t he just sign a 1-year deal? But where the heck would he play? LF?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put him in RF and Bradley on the bench.
Or maybe we could get the Nats to take Bradley in return. The entertainment value might put people in the seats there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Sori at 2nd...
Dunn in LF. Defense would be an adventure, but at this point I’d take that risk.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That'd work for me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, man
Dunn in left, and Sori at second? Dome will have a LOT of work.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 13, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been a few years since Soriano played 2nd
and I think fans have forgotten how historically bad he was defensively.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if we're moving Soriano to 2B
What’s the point of Dunn? Having Jake Fox or Hoff playing there every day could bring equivalent power.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, not really.
You’re saying Hoffpauir and/or Fox are as good a hitter as Adam Dunn? Seriously?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realized when I typed this
That I’m being ridiculous saying that.
But having them play regularly should help bring in some runs.
by ak123 on Jun 13, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, more than zero runs, anyway.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"adventure" is putting it lightly
Our strength is pitching, i’d rather go for better defense to help that.
if we could scratch 1 or 2 runs out (which may be asking a lot) but had a plus defensive team out there, maybe we don’t give up those cheap rbis to the other team.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 13, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He signed a 2-year deal
I remember thinking at the time that he’d be a free agent again right when Lee’s contract expired w/ Cubs. I’m not saying, I’m just saying…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 13, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you fit Dunn
into the roster? Soriano is a fixture in LF and Bradley is the RF.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 13, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put Soriano at 2B.
Yes, that would suck defensively. But at least the team would have a chance to hit.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 13, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the problem:
How many bad defensive teams end up in the playoffs and actually WIN in the playoffs?
One of the reasons for the improvement of the Reds is their improved outfield defense with Griffey and Dunn (both outfield statues) now gone. Now that they actually have outfielders who can catch the ball, their pitching has benefited.
As I recall, one of the things that allowed the Red Sox to finally win the WS in 2004 was the improvement in their defense when they got rid of Nomar (who’s defense was below average) and picked up Orlando Cabrera and Doug M.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 13, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine
Soriano being capable of playing 2B any more. His range would be almost non existant and I doubt he’d have the fearlessness to turn the double plays. I know there is talk of it happening but I feel Sori is past his prime as an infielder.
Suppose they did get Dunn and Soriano was a disaster as a 2B as I believe would happen. Now what do you do?
The quickest fix I’d try immediately would be to put Fox at 3B, move Fontenot to 2B and pray endlessly. It wouldn’t cost anything but some courage.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 14, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to say it
but for the last few games, at least, Bradley’s been hitting the ball well. Twice today, both Bradley and Lee were on base and couldn’t get driven home.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 13, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same Bradley that went 0-6 two games ago?
Sure, he slapped a double yesterday, but his only trip to the bases today was a walk from Nathan. Not exactly tearing the cover off the ball there.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should have had another hit.
Gomez stole one from him on an incredible catch.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet
If we were Twins fans, we’d probably be griping about Gomez’s initial hesitation on the play, necessitating that dive.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 13, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well played, sir.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 13, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to see another Unique person in here. DLee, unfortunately, is a “spurt” hitter, as are most of our other “Stars.” What we need are more steady hitters, with a little spark. Maybe, we could getting Juan Pierre back, when Mannie returns to the Dodgers.
by uniquepat on Jun 14, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Third base
When Aramis went down the Cubs had no one to play third base. By putting Fontenot there they have weakened themselves at two positions. I’m getting a deja vu back a few years ago when Lee went down for most of the year. Again they had no one to play first and they again weakened themselves at first and at second (also right) field) when they put guys like Grudzelanek and Hollandsworth at first base. Hendry, please stock your team each year with the idea that there will be guys who get hurt. Learn your lesson.
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot
shouldn’t even be the starting second baseman.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
Correct, but would you rather have Miles or Blanco there? Ouch
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have DeRosa.
but i don’t want to sound like a broken record.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cash poor
You are right about the broken record statement. It’s over. We need to move on now and enjoy our new guy, Bradley. Ouch.
by PalatineRol on Jun 13, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not even Bradley that's the big problem.
It’s every other position other than first that has been a problem. Bradley just made some idiotic decisions yesterday — and the fans let their frustration out on him and his mishaps.
Bradley needs to perform better but I don’t think he’s the problem.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 13, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs