A Quick Guide To Realistic Options To Fix The 2009 Cubs
Since the next game isn't till Tuesday night, and instead of harping on the tired old Sox/Cubs things that we'll no doubt see in the traditional media, I thought I'd take a bit of Monday to examine what the Cubs could realistically do, if management decided to start making moves right now, to improve the team's chances to make the playoffs in 2009. (And you'll see by the length of this post, why it wasn't finished this morning!)
I say "realistic" because at this moment, there are 23 teams within six games of a playoff spot. Why would any one of them trade a useful piece to their puzzle on June 15? (And consider that up until the 1980's, June 15 was the trading deadline. Can you imagine trying to finalize a team's summer today? Now? No way.) There are some players making big dollars that are dealable; one of them happens to be a Cub. More on this below.
This isn't going to be one of those "DFA! DFA! DFA!" posts, because yelling that is rarely productive. Also, for those of you who do say that, I think you really mean "Unconditionally release the bum rightfreakingnow!", because DFA, which is short for "Designated for assignment", actually means the player has some value. The DFA process gives the club ten days to either waive him (within the first seven days), trade him, or release him. If he clears waivers, he can be sent to the minors (unless he's a five-year veteran or has been outrighted to the minors before, in which case he has to give his consent). The DFA process is generally used only when a team wants a player off the 40-man roster, which happens immediately when a player is DFA'd. You can learn more about this and other MLB procedural moves at the very useful ESPN Transactions Primer, which is permanently on the left sidebar of this site under "General Baseball Links".
Case in point: I don't think any of you who are shouting "DFA Miles!" really want him any more -- you just want him off the team. Right? And besides, this isn't going to be one of "those" posts -- just blowing off steam because the team has been so -- well, average the first sixty games, after expectations were much higher. The Cubs have scored 253 runs and allowed 245 for a Pythagorean W-L record of 31-29, just one game better than reality. The 245 runs allowed is good -- third-fewest in the NL. The 253 runs scored is bad -- also third-fewest. Part of both of those is having played the fewest games in the major leagues -- 60. (Five teams have played 65 already.)
Go below the fold to find my realistic suggestions.
- Give Aaron Miles his unconditional release. The Cubs have already eaten two contracts this year: Luis Vizcaino's and most of Chad Gaudin's. Both of them apparently had issues beyond poor performance, which is what earned their release. Aaron Miles' problem has been bad play; he's been poor in the field and at bat. With a little more than 1/3 of this season gone, the remaining portion of his two-year deal (absolutely ridiculous to sign a guy like that to a two-year contract) amounts to (approximately) $3.5 million. The Cubs are paying Vizcaino that much. Miles is an automatic out in the lineup and the shoulder problem that presumably was "solved" by putting him on the DL is clearly still bothering him. I'd rather see Bobby Scales back -- Scales, at least, has shown he can produce off the bench (4-for-7 as a PH, with a triple and 2 HR). Or Nate Spears. Even Darwin Barney could probably give the Cubs better than what Miles has. Or see point #3 below.
- Offer Rich Harden in trade. This was already brought up in SackMan's FanPost this morning, but I had also thought of this over the weekend. I'm guessing about half of those 23 teams would be lined up outside Jim Hendry's office if the Cubs made Harden available. While he had a strong return from the DL on Friday, the Cubs managed fine -- at least starting-pitching-wise -- without him. They have a starter, Sean Marshall, languishing in the bullpen. It's unlikely, with the emergence of Randy Wells, that Harden will be re-signed for 2010. The savings of getting someone else to take the remainder of his $7 million deal would make up for eating Miles' contract. Get prospects in return. Here's one contending team that might be interested: the Angels, whose rotation has been in turmoil all year. Maybe Hendry could finally pry Brandon Wood away from them. If you could do that, Wood could play 3B. Or SS, moving Ryan Theriot to 2B -- unless you make move #3 below.
- Send prospects and Aaron Heilman to Cleveland for Mark DeRosa. I know I'm going to start a firestorm here because of the long discussions we've already had about DeRosa. Look -- I'm NOT being sentimental here. DeRosa, who homered again last night and whose 44 RBI are already half of his career high set last year (and are also 17 more than any Cub has), would be a useful replacement for Aramis Ramirez until he returns, could sub in at several other positions, and if A-Ram isn't 100% on his comeback, could also play 3B for extended periods the rest of the year. Sending Heilman to Cleveland would give the Tribe a major league pitcher -- and perhaps give Heilman the starting rotation slot he's been coveting -- and mitigate some of DeRosa's contract. Also, this gets the two additional pitchers the Cubs don't really need (13? Waaaaaay too many, Lou!) off the roster.
- Put Kosuke Fukudome in the #2 hole and leave him there. This seems counterintuitive, but Fukudome is hitting .310/.388/.569 batting 2nd and only .271/.428/.402 batting 3rd (and 0-for-12 in other lineup slots). The guy seems to thrive on consistency. Stop messing with him and maybe the helicopter will vanish.
- For now, leave Milton Bradley alone. I've been a critic of this signing from day one, and have only shaken my head at the controversy that seems to hang over his head whether he wants it to or not. Since May 22, he is hitting .302/.373/.453 in 17 games (14 starts), so his bat is (apparently) starting to get together. Whether you like Gameboard or not, the Cubs need him to produce. With Aramis Ramirez out, he really has to hit third. After A-Ram returns, drop him to fifth, which seems a better slot for him.
- Give Angel Guzman more eighth-inning responsibility. Guzman has been the Cubs' most consistent reliever all year and in his last 13 appearances, has allowed only eight hits and one run for a 0.71 ERA. If Carlos Marmol is struggling or has been overused, let Guzman throw the eighth, setting up Kevin Gregg.
- Let Micah Hoffpauir start in left field occasionally. Alfonso Soriano will never say he needs a day off -- but right now, he absolutely needs some days off. You never know when Soriano will take off on a hot streak, but with his average below .230, maybe it's time. Or try Soriano at 2B for a game or two; the defense can't be worse than what Miles has done, and if he starts hitting, that improves the offense.
That isn't the total solution, nor are any or all of these perfect. But they are, I think, realistic -- things the Cubs could actually do within the next week or two, rather than some pipedream we conjure up here. Let's hope they do some of them. When other players begin hitting the way they should, that could make the Cubs a playoff team again.
0 recs |
530 comments
|
Comments
I actually agree with most of this, Al
Not with No. 3, of course, but let’s not start that merry-go-round again. :)
Harden probably is a luxury the Cubs can’t afford right now. Although I’d like to see a little more from Wells before I’d pull the trigger on it. I think he’s the real deal, but …
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 15, 2009 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I see what you mean.
Still… Harden has real trade value. Maybe they have to take a chance and do this.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the cubs would really deal him?
with the team in contention he would be a very nice piece of the puzzle down the stretch and in the playoffs……….and who knows what randy wells will do. He could end up coming back down to earth.
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Harden's value will rise if he makes a few more starts
to show he is healthy. Along with other difference making pitchers that are now off the market due to injury (Peavy and Bedard), his value will keep rising.
It’s worth exploring. Jim Hendry will need to make the decision if the team will be better with Harden or with whatever he could bring in a trade. It’s hard to say right now.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade now on some guys while they are hot/not injured
Harden is a risk to hit the DL at any moment. If you can get legitimate prospects for him, then this is probably the optimum time to do so.
DLee has had a mini-bounce back this year. However the power is simply no longer in his bat. At least not to the level where he is a legitimate power threat at 1st going forward.
My ideal scenerio would involve
1. finding a new home for DLee
2. Selling high on Harden right now.
3. Hitting up the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez with the prospects from 1 and 2. Maybe a Kouzmanoff can be added in that deal to fix the 3rd base black hole of succubus
Oh, and DFA!!! Aaron Miles PRONTO!!!!!
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jun 15, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, I think you missed the word "realistic" to Al's title.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whut?
The Pads are desperately looking to drop salary, not pick it up. Why would they take Harden? With Peavy on the DL, they must be in full rebuild mode.
Why would Derrek Lee go to San Diego? You have to make a realistic argument for that, because of the NTC.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not reading what I wrote clearly
These are 3 seperate moves to be made. But in and of themeselves each and every one can be made. Example
1. Trade DLee to the Angels, or M’s? Maybe eat a smallish portion of the contract this year. Should net a couple of mid tier prospects
2. Trade Harden to whomever. Should net at least as good of a haul as the Cubs gave up last year.
3. Assuming you accomplish 1 and hopefully 2, turn to SD and try and pry Gonzalez and Kouzmanoff loose. This team is built to win RIGHT NOW. Trade Vitters,Jackson, Castillo, Prospects from deals 1 and 2. If Hendry is serious about moving this thing forward, he needs to be more proactive than he ever has been in the past.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jun 15, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently you arent familiar with the concept of a no trade clause
Lee isnt going anywhere, the Cubs didnt give up jack to get Harden either
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 15, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guys get traded with NTC every year
If the Cubs chose to move Lee, Lee would move.
I’d think the threat of Sitting behind Adrian Gonzalez would be enough for him to waive the clause.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jun 15, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That didn't work with Jake Peavy.
And, again, it seems unlikely the Pads will part with AGonz. They have to hold on to something. CEO Jeff Moorad has said as much.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 15, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fwiw
there was apparently discussion about moving Lee in the offseason, and he declined.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Despite the fact that its been mentioned on here a million times and Lee has given no indication of ceding his NTC, nor the team floating his name around in trade talks.
He wouldnt sit behind Gonzalez b/c the Cubs dont have anything remotely valuable to attain one of the top power hitting 1B in the game.
Your way way off base on this one
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 15, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I have to ask:
Are there a lot of you with that avatar, or are you one person with multiple accounts?
by Orval Overall on Jun 15, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright
I see what you’re talking about.
The question would be (other than getting Lee to waive his NTC): are the Pads buying…
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Angels will stop playing Kendry Morales, why?
Derrek Lee: .278/.360/.444, 7 HR
Kendry Morales: .271/.322/.495, 10 HR
The Angels would be giving up a switch-hitting first baseman with about 40 points less OBP and 50 points more SLG. Kendry is also cheap and 26; Lee is expensive and 33, with a significant injury history.
Not happening.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on Jun 16, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would the Padres trade away one of the best hitters in the National League?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 15, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2. Selling high on Harden right now.
Harden is hurt. He has .5 years of club control left and is very injury prone.
I don’t think “selling high” means what you think it means.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Selling before he goes down again
As opposed to waiting until he’s back on the DL. That will be considered selling high. Especially with 23 teams still in contention.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jun 15, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok fine then
Tell me: if we were to “sell high” on him right now, what would you realistically expect to get back for him?
Before you answer consider what we gave up for him 1 year ago. Also consider that his value is now 66% lower than that (in terms of actual value measured by service time).
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With 23 teams in contention
I’d think we could net something close to what we gave up last year.
At the time it was
1. An MLB 3/4th OFer with a career MLB OPS of .800ish
2. An MLB ready 2nd baseman and potential leadoff guy
3. Our #1 Pitching prospect
4. Our #3 or 4 hitting prospect
With hindsight those pieces have diminished in Oakland. However at the time that was the haul they got.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jun 15, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I guess you're welcome to believe that
Never minding the fact that there were just as many teams in contention at this time last year and Harden was more valuable.
I don’t think anyone considered that package “quite the haul” – Gallagher was the only truly high-value piece in that package; Murton and Patterson are both players without positions.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As of now...
… that deal looks pretty bad for Oakland, unless Donaldson comes through.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
However you have to base the deal as of last year when it happened.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jun 15, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing that looks worst for Oakland to me
…is how the Cubs have been able to keep Harden out on the mound so much more than Oakland ever could. Oakland’s taken some heat for having a subpar training staff and I can’t help but think that this just reinforces that.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the real world
Why on earth your “ideal” ever happen? Esp #3.
Is my sarcasm detector broken?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree re: Wells
As much as I hope he’s not a flash-in-the-pan pitcher, he needs at least 15 more starts to prove himself as the real deal.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to see 2 more Wells starts before im 100% sold
The Sox tend to have issues with facing a new pitcher, so that might not be the best indicator.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True dat
If/when Wells faces Philadelphia and New York, and shows consistency, I’ll be sold.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'scuse me?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 15, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't have to be an elite team
I just want to see how he responds to having a bad start. I don’t think a White Sox start for sure shows me because they have issues with new pitchers.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but if Wells fails, you still have Marshall right?
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
by eswan9 on Jun 15, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but...
… if you have traded Harden, you’re a pitcher short. The Cubs would need both Wells and Marshall to succeed in order to replace Harden.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you can pry one loose in a trade.
In a possible Harden trade, the Cubs probably need a bat and a live arm, either to supplement the bullpen (in which Marshall goes to the rotation) or to slide into the 5th spot in the rotation.
Getting a 5th starter and a bat for Harden is probably asking for too much, IMO.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jun 15, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we can package a lesser bat along with Harden
to pick up a better bat and a 5th starter type? Maybe someone like Fontenot?
by madcow256 on Jun 15, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles?
I’m not sure I’d part with Fontenot if it meant that Miles was the everyday 2B with Ramirez back.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jun 15, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally, it would be Miles
Although, maybe we’re getting a more established 2B/SS in return and we won’t miss Fontenot so much. Finding someone willing to take Miles with his current contract seems unlikely at best . . . things would be a lot easier if we had another few million in wiggle room with the payroll.
by madcow256 on Jun 15, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'll take three teams I think to unload Miles
and there are some interesting three-team proposals floating around in the threads.
The wiggle room in payroll could come in a Harden & Miles deal.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jun 15, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But don't forget about Shark at AAA,
I believe he’s been pitching well lately and it wouldn’t surprise me if he makes a significant contribution in the 2nd half.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a Harden trade is a possibility...
and maybe thats why the cubs have looked at pedro martinez
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed...
but i can’t see another reason why the cubs would look at pedro
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going with "beer-bet"...
:)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 15, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I don't see any team
signing him for much more than the minimum.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point.
I hadn’t thought of that.
Makes sense to keep your options open. Pedro would essentially have to sign close to the minimum for that to make sense. I don’t see him getting much for the minimum as I see little demand for his services for anything much more than the minimum.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if it was a couple million
he would take Harden’s spot and we’d get other players from the Harden deal to help us.
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of think trading Harden would require a 3 team deal.
You’d be trading Harden to a contender who would be unlikely to trade players from their MLB roster. You likely would need to get a 3rd team involved that would take prospects back and be trading a veteran hitter.
That would be complicated but Hendry has shown the ability to put together a deal like this in mid-season. (Nomar deal in 2004.)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats where the Pirates come into play!!
Freddy Sanchez
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Cubs could only deal for a player
that would not increase their 2010 payroll.
The problem with Freddy is he is close to vesting his 2010 option.
With the team having no one to approve any budget increases, I think Freddy is not an option unless they can shed payroll from the 2010 budget and I don’t see that happening.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that is true
But we do have Shark in AAA
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
by eswan9 on Jun 15, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Samardzija hasn't been overwhelming in AAA though...
and he doesn’t have much of an MLB track record either (none as a starter).
by SouthernCub on Jun 15, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does he have more than 1 1/2 pitches, yet?
Until that happens, he’s not going to contribute at the bigs consistantly.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post Al!
I agree with all of this. Indeed you are the wind beneath my wings.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
by eswan9 on Jun 15, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Woah! Someone cue the Bette Midler music!
And get the hankies girls!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I HATED that movie. Then again I'm a guy and, you know, straight.
NOT THAT THERE’S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!
I don’t mean to offend anyone.
It was just a DUMB movie.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with a lot of this
Number 1 needs to happen ASAP. I don’t see a DeRosa deal working out, but I can hope.
This Fukudome thing is going to become an issue again. I agree with leaving him in the 2-spot for a while and see if that helps. I just fear that he is becoming the black hole that he became last year. He may be destined to sit in the 8 hole.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 1:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The reason I think there is no chance no 1 happens
is Miles is under contract for next year. With the team essentially without an owner, I doubt anyone has the authroity to throw money down the toilet for next year.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Miles is “undumpable.”
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, if the reason his play has dropped off so much
is because of his injured shoulder (which happened in spring training), they should put him on the DL and bring a healthy player up. I subscribe to the theory that this is the root of Miles’ offensive drop-off.
I do think it’s possible for Miles to bounce back if his shoulder heals but I suspect this is the kind of injury that will only heal in the off-season.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Miles never has been a great (or even a very good) hitter, but it’s hard to believe he could be this bad (sub .500 OPS) unless he was hurt.
by Jody Jody Davis on Jun 15, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. Whenever I see Miles in the lineup I feel like excusing myself and hitting the can.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then have Zambrano beat the crap out of him
I’m only half kidding about that.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One could argue that the money has already been thrown down the toilet...
in signing Miles two a two-year deal.
by SouthernCub on Jun 15, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Aaron Heilman Sucks Fan Club, through its President, approves of point #3
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Realistically...
I like the Aaron Miles idea, I feel Cubs nation is more than ready to let him go after talking to a lot of people at the game yesterday. Also, at the game yesterday it appeared to me that
Marmol was not falling off the mound towards 1st base during his follow – through, which is very good news. Al, Who is your some prospects for DRO? I think that is too general seeing that the Indians could be asking for top guys. It just doesn’t seem that simple. I would see them asking for a Guzman or Kevin Hart instead of Heilman. If they took Heilman they would be crazy. I COMPLETELY agree with the Milton statement. Yesterday looking in the Cubs dugout it was him who was up appearing to rally the troops before the 9th inning and he was the first one out of the dugout to mob theriot. I really think as the Cubs pick it up Milton will become a fan favorite. The guy has to much will to win hopefully he stays concentrated.
by cliffyhoops03 on Jun 15, 2009 1:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You might need to send...
… a Brandon Guyer, or a Steve Clevenger, along with some pitching.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd have to figure
a team could get him back for roughly 2/3 of what we got for him in the offseason. He’s performed about as well as he has last year, and he’s only got 2/3 of a season left on his contract (vs. a full season when we traded him).
Maybe I’m oversimplifying things?
by madcow256 on Jun 15, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You probably are.
He’s second on his team in RBI. The Indians are fourth in the AL in runs, and 2nd to last in runs allowed. They need pitching.
Harden for DeRosa (and maybe a prospect) might not be a bad deal for both teams.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're going to need to be more specific.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clevenger was pretty good when he was in Detroit.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured it out...the Cubs need offense.
The traditional spots in the field to play your big hitters would be LF, RF, and 1B. With the Cubs, that means Soriano, Lee, and Bradley. This will be the core of the offense, with which the team shall sink or swim. Are these guys seen as dangerous? Would you trust any of them to carry the team in the playoffs? I honestly think the Cubs would need to change out two of the three to actually have a shot at winning the pennant, but as we all know they are un-movable due to their contracts.
Just for fun, and maybe to make a point, I would give equal opportunity to Hoffpauir and Fox among this group and just continue to play whoever puts up the numbers on offense. Of course this could very likely result in benching, say, Soriano for the playoffs, but no one really expects him to come through in the postseason anyway.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Jun 15, 2009 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Post, Al.
Agreed with each one 100%. Well done.
by Neifi Puppy on Jun 15, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Needless to say... as Al referenced my post... I'm in agreement.
Roster moves need to be done here.
DeRosa is proving to be the glue that held everything together last year, when faced with injuries and adversity. We didn’t properly replace that versatility and production when we dealt him away.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 15, 2009 1:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about
seeing if anyone is willing to take fukudome with his contract? Let reed johnson take over in center and use the fukudome money to make a couple other moves.
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that exposes Johnson
a lot, and Dome is not a black hole.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What team would do that?
With virtually all teams watching every penny they spend, I don’t think that is a risk any would take, at least during the season. Maybe it would be possible in the offseason if you traded a bad contract for someone else’s another bad contract.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be the trouble with dealing him
thats why I said see if anyone is willing to take the contract. If no one wants it then the idea is no good.
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody is going to take a guy who makes 12 mil a year
and is only productive for April and May. What team could possibly be dumb enough to take Fukudome?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps contacting an NHL team would work. Those are good months for hockey.
Then you can send him back to Grand Rapids.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heilman and Prospects to Cleveland for DeRosa
Uh. well, I’d love to have DeRosa back, but do you really think Cleveland would take Heilman and prospects for him? I don’t know what prospects would be involved. How about Jeff Stevens as one of them? Getting DeRosa back should be a priority.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Jun 15, 2009 1:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Derosa would be a "rental" player
his contract is up at the end of the year so his value won’t be too high.
by cubsmania on Jun 15, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think DeRosa's value will be determined
by the number of teams bidding on him. Injuries to key players on contending teams will determine how many teams bid on DeRo and also the economy. Some teams, no matter if they have a serious injury, will simply not be able to add to their payroll.
I think the trading deadline will involve a whole lot of nothing this year as a direct result of the uncertainty with the economy.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the fact that so many teams may still be in contention.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Including the Indians
they are not “out of it” yet. they have played better of late than their horrid start. DeRo moved up to #2 in their batting order, they may not be willing to trade their hot hand. It would have to be one of those trades viewed positively by both parties.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jun 15, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is is out of it in the AL Central.
The Tigers (and this is a TIGERS FAN SPEAKING) are “paper” Tigers. I’m not convinced they can sustain it for the whole year.
Frankly after seeing the Twins this weekend against the Cubs and playing against the Tigers (the Tabbies are 1-4 against the Twinks), my money is on them (if the Tigers can’t bring the division title home). The WC won’t come from this division.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have the best pitcher
and the best hitter.
I don’t know that I’ve seen a better fastball than Justin Verlanders.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's the real deal. Not sure what happened to him last year other than the ole' "Sophomore Sump"?
Along those lines, “Mr. Soto? Your table is ready…”
That’s all I can figure …
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting comparison
Bc Verlander was bad last year. Hopefully it works out the same.
I hope the Cubs don’t have to face him.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda hope they do 'cause I wanna see him pitch in person when we go to the 3 game series...
It’ll be exciting!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be a perfect game
If his stuff was half what it was against the White Sox
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
he’s nasty.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So which is better?
Nasty or Filthy?
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't his sophmore year.
ROY in 2006. Soph year would’ve been 2007, not 2008.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah. You are right Allie. My mistake.
Hmp! There goes my whole premise! ;(
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a "Junior Jinx"?
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 15, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: DeRosa's value...
…according to this article dated today, the A’s asked about DeRo but:
….the team believes the asking price is probably too high for a player who is in the final year of a deal.
Take it FWIW.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 15, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't say what the asking price was.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the wording is very unclear.
Saying “the team believes the asking price is probably too high” implies the A’s never got a clear answer on what the asking price is. I was just trying to add some detail to this particular aspect of the discussion, but I fear I’ve only made it all the more confusing.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 15, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CURSE YOU MEGATRON!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland would want more
Heilman isn’t worth much.
by elgato on Jun 15, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they trade back for DeRosa
They shouldnt immediately fire Hendry, that would be ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Heilman can barely survive in the NL, why would Cleveland want him?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 15, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does getting rid of our best pitcher make us better exactly?
Dumping him for “prospects” at that? Why would a contending team salary dump an amazing player for prospects?
Oh….
3.Send prospects and Aaron Heilman to Cleveland for Mark DeRosa.
…so that Derosa can ride back in on his holy unicorn and save the day.
The A’s backed off because they felt Cleveland was asking too much for him. I’m not sure why a non-contending team would want Heilman, who has been terrible, is moderately expensive, and only club-controlled for 2 more years.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait.
You just called the Indians a contending and a non-contending team in the same post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I called the Cubs a contending team
I asked how the Cubs, a contending team, would be made better by getting rid of their best pitcher.
Then I asked why the Indians, a non-contending team, would be interested in 1.5 years of a bad and moderately expensive Aaron Heilman.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I misread your post.
I thought you were referring to DeRosa.
The indians aren’t non-contending. They are six games out of first place in the mediocre AL Central.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me rephrase then
Why would anyone want 1.5 years of a bad and moderately expensive Aaron Heilman?
And again I’ll ask, how does it help the Cubs to get rid of their best pitcher?
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rich Harden is the Cubs' "best" pitcher?
In what universe is that true?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you going to answer any questions or just give one-line pedantic replies?
Harden is inarguably the most talented pitcher on the staff. When healthy, he’s one of the most dominant pitchers in the entire MLB. He led all MLB starters in ERA and K/9 last season, and was 3rd in the MLB WHIP.
When he is on the mound, he is their best pitcher.
But that’s not the argument here – you’re dodging the questions:
How does trading their best pitcher the extremely talented, incredibly effective, and absolutely dominant Rich Harden help the Cubs win this year?
Why would a non-contending Indians team anyone want 1.5 years of an overpriced an ineffective Aaron Heilman?
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's our best 5 inning pitcher bar none.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 15, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have an abundance of talented pitchers
What we severely lack right now is offense.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 15, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And dumping Harden for prospects fixes this how?
Because you’ll spin these “prospects” for Derosa?
While Derosa’s holy unicorn of awesomeness solves a short-term need (no third baseman), Harden’s departure would create a long-term one (worse starting pitching, worse bullpen because whoever now starts opens up a bullpen slot).
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bullpen that is full of pitchers who never pitch?
Maybe it would force to use them or move them.
I dont feel like Harden should be traded for prospects, unless a 3 team deal is happening. We need a bat of some sort.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 15, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They never pitch because they suck
If you pull Wells (who will end up there when our starting 5 are back) and / or Marshall out of there, you’re left with a very shallow pen.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou has already put Marshall in the pen.
If Harden stays, Wells remains in the rotation.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they traded Harden
Marshall would come out of the pen.
I think he’s pitched, what, twice? Three times? Since he went into the pen. Several other pen pitchers have done fairly well — even Marmol did ok.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you're trying to equalize contracts.
Did you read the rest of the post? You send prospects as well, perhaps major-league-ready prospect. Heilman isn’t making THAT much money. Further, he has been more effective of late.
The Cubs have surplus pitching. They need a bat. This is a way to get one.
FWIW, Ted Lilly has been the Cubs’ “best” pitcher this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did read it and it didn't make much sense
You were saying that trading Harden somehow offsets the Miles contract:
The savings of getting someone else to take the remainder of his $7 million deal would make up for eating Miles’ contract.
….which doesn’t make sense because Miles’ contract’s a sunk cost – it’s already being counted against the team’s payroll, whether or not he plays another game here.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but...
… getting someone else to take Harden’s would at least clear that payroll room, right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess if you needed it for something else
If you don’t need that payroll room for something else, then all you’ve done is made the team worse in exchange for a savings of $3.5M.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You and I disagree on whether the team would be better or worse.
I think you could use the savings to get some hitting help.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is this Harden crap?
He has been god awful every other start this season and already spent some time on the DL with plenty more to come.
Ted Lilly is the best pitcher on this staff, and Carlos Zambrano is the most talented.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden is awesome at baseball
I’m not sure what else to tell you.
Even if you won’t concede the fact that when healthy he’s one of the most dominant pitchers in baseball, you have to look at the marginal cost: is he a significantly better pitcher than those who will be taking his place in the rotation? (hint: yes) If you answered “yes” to the previous question (hint: you should have) then you’ve made the team worse by dumping him for prospects.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was, presumably, healthy before the DL stint this year.
Those starts weren’t dominant.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike? That you?
Yes. Harden is very talented when healthy.. but that doesn’t mean he’s a good pitcher. It means he has good stuff.
He’s injury prone, good for 5 innings tops consistantly and too dependent on the strike out.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look you can call me whatever names you want
but that’s a pretty low blow.
but that doesn’t mean he’s a good pitcher. It means he has good stuff.
Again, this is pedantry.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. It's an arbitrary distinction that has nothing to do with the argument.
I’m reposting and bolding the clause that everyone missed.
Even if you won’t concede the fact that when healthy he’s one of the most dominant pitchers in baseball, you have to look at the marginal cost: is he a significantly better pitcher than those who will be taking his place in the rotation? (hint: yes) If you answered "yes" to the previous question (hint: you should have) then you’ve made the team worse by dumping him for prospects.
A little help here, since people seem to be having trouble with that one:
“Even if you won’t concede” means “even if you don’t agree”. It means “let’s forget about this stupid pedantic argument about whether he’s the best pitcher or whatever, and look at the meat of the issue here”.
You literally missed the point of my post if you’re getting caught up in how to classify Harden as a pitcher.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you learn a word like "pedantic"?
Since this discussion is going nowhere, I was curious and thought I’d ask.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I'd be more complimented by the kudos
…if I hadn’t misused the word “literally” in my post. Tsk, tsk, tsk Wreckard.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm often amused when...
some of my friends will say something like “I literally exploded with laughter!”
Why people think that the word is merely some sort of emphasis word I don’t know…
:)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 15, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I literally
agree with you.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I literally
saw what you did there
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 15, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has not been what you say he is this year
Look at these 2 games. April 15th
May 1st
Or just look at this year for him in general.
I love Harden. But he has not been that dominant this year.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 15, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jkobus's todo list
1) Do laundry
2) Buy Fiddle-Faddle
3) Learn what the term “small sample size” means
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what small sample sizes are
Im just pointing out he isnt being the dominant pitcher this year, which is why everyone has been saying he isnt the best pitcher the Cubs have.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 15, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, thanks
I forgot I need to do laundry
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 15, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem.
Don’t forget the fiddle-faddle. It’s a delicious snack.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never heard of it.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 15, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tastes
pixely.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now with 10% more pixels!
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
by Blue W on Jun 15, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mmmm Poppycock
Great, now I miss the AFL. Thanks
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 15, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dugg for "Poppycock".
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 15, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think maybe I define "dominate" differently
You can’t be dominate by averaging less than 110 IP/yr.
Santana is dominate. Halladay is dominate.
Not to be pedantic.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"dominant"
to be pendantic. :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
pedantic.
And pedatnic.;
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to be a growing pedantic pandemic
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
by Blue W on Jun 15, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And my spelling sucks
Dominant?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the question then is
has Harden really pitched better than Wells/Marshall?
I’m not entirely sure the answer is yes. W/L is no way to judge a pitcher’s record.
It depends on whether or not we’re ready to trust Wells full-time in the show.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's also another reason to keep Harden
and keep the depth the Cubs have at starting pitcher.
What is the likelihood a starting pitcher gets hurt? If you trade Harden, who wold you replace that pitcher with?
Of course, Harden would likely BE the pitcher gets hurt. LOL
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a fair point.
There’s disagreement on how well the Shark is doing in AAA.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the question isn't "has he"
That’s a question that’s easily answered.
The question is “will he”. His career stats and MLB track record indicate that yes he will, by a significant margin.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells
has an amazing set of stats. ERA under .100, right?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Again, that’s answering the question “has he pitched better”. We know the answer to that question – Wells has, no doubt about it.
But do you really believe Wells will keep that up? Given his minor league stats?
I’m not saying Wells doesn’t have a quality major league career ahead of him; but expecting he’ll keep this up is unrealistic, likewise with Harden.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't expect Wells to have a career as good as Harden's to date.
But we’re not talking about the past. We’re talking about right now. Can Wells keep this up the rest of the year? That’s the key question.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I keep saying....
When trying to project the future (asking, “will he pitch better”), you look at a guy’s full career stats, not their season-to-date.
Those would suggest Harden will return to form and Wells will regress.
That said, I do think Wells will be a quality major league pitcher, just not this good.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain, then...
… why the non-injured Harden wasn’t dominant the first two months.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sunspots
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 15, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best explanation I've heard so far.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um.
Let me answer this the way you would: “Because numbers don’t play the game”.
My earnest answer: small sample size. You’re talking about 7 games – that’s not enough information. There’s so much random chance in baseball that when you look at a sample that small you’re going to see huge aberrations in the stats. And I guarantee you, Randy Wells’ season so far definitely looks like an aberration.
Let me put it this way: let’s say I was going to make a bet. Someone was going to bet me $100 dollars as to who would put up the better statistics from this point on in the season. Would I have the best odds if I based my bet on the small sample size of the 7 or 8 games that Wells and Harden have pitched in this year? Or would I be better off looking at the full scope of their careers and try to use that to make my prediction? What’s the over / under I’d be right if I did that instead?
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is taken.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that could be argued
because Harden has been hurt so much. If Wells stays healthy, he simply may have the better career because he pitches effectively every 5th day.
It really depends on what numbers you think are the most important.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They feel like two VERY different things to me
Lots of guys have great stuff, that doesn’t mean they can pitch.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue Harden is both a good pitcher and has good stuff.
He’s just been hurt a lot over his career but when he has pitched he’s been pretty darn good.
He has a record of 45-23 with an ERA of 3.33. Most of his innings were in the AL too.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
Harden is a very good pitcher. He might ultimately be a bad value, but he’s a good pitcher (and has good stuff).
by SouthernCub on Jun 15, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's a good thrower at this point
A pitcher can get outs without always relying on stuff.
Getting by with stuff is great, but I’d like to see him do more.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an interesting point of view.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
I’ve said the same thing for years about Zambrano (being able to get a K when you need it is fabulous, but I like him better when he’s getting ground balls).
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that innings pitched is definitely an important stat for evaluating a pitcher.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how you can look at Harden's career stats...
and seriously argue that he isn’t a good pitcher, let alone dominant pitcher.
Yes, he’s injury-prone, but the guy has put up ridiculous numbers throughout his career. If you want to argue that he will (for reasons that I hope you’d elaborate on) no longer pitch to his demonstrated career talent level fine, then elaborate on that. Merely citing his numbers this year is an proof of that is nothing more than a “limited sample-size” error though.
Anyway, I think you can make an argument against keeping Harden (though not a very good one, to my mind). But arguing that he was never very good to begin with is asinine when you actually look at his numbers.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 15, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once you attach that "when healthy" tag on him
He can no longer be considered this awesome dominate pitcher. I don’t understand the love people have for these pitchers who can’t stay healthy. Its a joke, leave that crap up to other teams. Harden has been average this season, not even close to this god walking on the baseball diamond once every five days.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the biggest problems around here
…is that so many people here can’t get past the fact that injury-prone players can be extremely valuable and effective. Sure, if they were always healthy they’d be even more effective than they are, but you have to take players for what they are, not what you wish they were.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well If I was running a team
I would avoid the injury prone crap whenever possible with pitchers. They are too important to break down all the time. I’ll take a Halladay or a CC over Prior or Harden every single day.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, of course you would.
But I might take even a lesser pitcher over a Harden. Last year’s Harden stayed healthy. This year’s version hasn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would Ted be considered lesser?
Somebody at his level is also way better than Harden, but Ted has been miles better this season.
What about Dempster? Though I don’t know my feeling about him, he stays healthy so he should also be considered above Harden.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Harden’s “healthy” year yielded 148 IP.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
148 IP of dominating baseball
So what if you have to fill in 100 IP with someone lesser when what you get is so damn valuable?
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feels like
robbing Peter to pay Paul, to me.
But whatever. I’m obviously not going to convince you.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am the Frito Bandito
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 15, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, reply fail!
Supposed to be in response to Al
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 15, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's actually funnier as a reply to what Allie said.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 15, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know . . . I actually laughed at work
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 15, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
literally?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit, it was only figuratively
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 15, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FIGURATIVIST!
get him!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 16, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Random, much?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 15, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I should start doing that on purpose
Instead of just saying, “Peavy”
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 15, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wholeheartedly support this notion.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 16, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I see you've taken action on it already
However, I’m going to mix it up a little bit.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 16, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really not that hard to understand
Pitcher A is really good but gets hurt all the time.
Pitcher B is the guy who’d be playing if you didn’t have Pitcher A. Pitcher B is very healthy, but isn’t as good as Pitcher A.
150 IP of Pitcher A + 100 innings of Pitcher B is more valuable than 250 IP of Pitcher B.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I see.
The Milton Bradley argument for pitchers. Sorry, you’ve lost me here. Adam Dunn would have been far more valuable to the Cubs this year than Milton Bradley.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And even Halladay is hurt right now and has had some
injuries in his career. Such as that line drive he took off his leg right before the All-Star game a couple of years ago.
Pitchers like Maddux that were never hurt are as rare as anything in baseball.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that is just a strange occurance
and even if a guy gets hurt because his arm was beat down for years (Big Z) thats okay. Guys like Harden were fragile from day one. We don’t need that.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would only make sense...
If their replacements during those injury periods negated the value of their production.
You judge a player based on his overall production. It doesn’t matter what the time-period is that he does it in.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 15, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden is not Prior
Prior is post-op. Guys are never the same after that.
So far, Harden has never had a major surgery and consequently always comes back at top form.
I’ll take a Halladay or a CC over Prior or Harden every single day.
And of course you’d take CC or Halladay over Harden – who in their right mind wouldn’t? And if the suggestion was “trade Harden for CC” then what you said would be relevant. It isn’t – you’re not talking about replacing Harden with a pitcher who’s never had an ERA in the minors below 4 until this season.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When exactly has Harden been so awesome this year?
He’s got a 4.53 ERA, been on the DL twice, and has been the benefactor of the Cubs actually scoring a bunch of runs in his 4 wins. Not to mention, he’s given up a whopping 9 HRs in just 49 2/3 innings.
Not exactly “dominant.”
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 15, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's pitched 9 games this season
This is another textbook example of people rushing to judgment based on a small sample size.
by Wreckard on Jun 15, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wells? Really?
A few good starts doesnt signal he’s arrived, it certainly doesnt make him reliable building block for the future, nor does it make him a replacement for Harden.
He could simply be having a great six week stretch never to be repeated, it happens all the time
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 15, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you make Move No. 2
There’s no need for Move No. 3. And Move No. 2 is much more realistic, anyway.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 15, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
only if you can get Wood for Harden
But I see your point.
by elgato on Jun 15, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps so.
Depends on what you get for Harden.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was referring to your suggestion of getting Brandon Wood...
in which case, I’d agree. You don’t need both Wood and DeRosa.
That said, I’m not sure if I’m ready to rely on Wells and Marshall as the #4 and #5 starters just yet – especially for a gamble on an upside player like Wood.
by SouthernCub on Jun 15, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love the DeRo idea.
Hate the Harden idea. The only reason this club isn’t out of it is our starting pitching, part of that is Harden. We did “okay” with Wells in instead, but I’m not convinced he’s that good over the long term, I am convinced that Harden is.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on Jun 15, 2009 1:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
4,5 and 6 seem the most realistic
With 1 being somewhat realistic, but not likely.
I am an American aquarium drinker...
by HoodooMan on Jun 15, 2009 1:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You can do
4, 5 and 6 right now.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 15, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's focus on #1 right now :)
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 15, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 trillion
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have wonderful dreams at night
Where I turn on the cubs and there is no Aaron Miles.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 15, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was just two glorious weeks
Where that dream was a reality. Then Miles came back.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think most of this is fine
although I don’t know why Cleveland would take that deal.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My Thoughts
1. Concerning Miles, I wouldn’t mind if the Cubs released him. I cringed when they signed him, and I cringe every time I see him because I was right. He was a bad signing. Though I wouldn’t mind if Hendry lets him go, I doubt he will. I figure the Cubs are hoping he gets some sort of hot streaking going, swallow his money, and will use him as a 3rd – 4th player in a trade later in the season. I hoping this is the reason he is still around.
2. I’m cool with trading Harden… I just hope Hendry doesn’t blow it and give him away for nothing.
3. DeRosa will not be coming back to the Cubs. If we were going to get him, he’d be here now before Aram gets better. Still, Hendry let him go for a reason. His days with the Chicago Cubs are probably over. Hendry won’t bring him back because he want anybody to rub his deal from the offseason in his face.
4. Kosuke… I’m down with whatever works. I love watching him play when he’s on… but, I am slowly beginning to think he really isn’t MLB material. I hope I am wrong.
5. I am also a critic about Bradley’s signing. Regardless of the controversy he brings, he can’t stay healthy. That was the number one issue from the get go. I wanted Dunn… Anyway, you’re right with this one. Leave him alone. The Cubs do NEED Bradley to produce. Finger of Shame goes to Lou and Jim for making Bradley a "key ingredient" to us winning because he isn’t reliable. Still… Griping about it isn’t going to keep him healthy. One thing, I doubt this would happen, but I wouldn’t mind to see him traded if something good comes along. Bradley is better suited on an AL team. Maybe somebody… yankees?… .BoSox?…would be interested…
6. Sounds good.
7. Define "occasionally." Soriano does need a day off or two. But, I don’t think this needs to become like a catcher type deal where your main starts a bunch of days, then backup, etc… I have a feeling most or Soriano’s problems are because he is trying to hard to pick up the slack. I’m sure he’s feeling the pressure of his large contract, mix that together with the facts that come with getting older and his knee… well, I think Fonzie needs somebody to just come in and settle things down for him.
These is my thoughts on your opinions Al. Thanks.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 15, 2009 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Soriano's problem
is not feeling too much pressure. He just isn’t a very good baseball player.
He has never done well against good pitching and he isn’t going to start now. He’s the kind of guy who hits two HRs and drives in 3 in a 10-3 win. At the end of the year, he looks like a slugger, but really he hasn’t helped the team win games. He has never been a good baserunner and has always been a terrible fielder. He should be a DH batting 7th. He’s grossly, obscenely overpaid and he’s over the hill, deteriorating numbers and injury prone…I’d try like hell to pawn him off on someone, but he’s burned too many teams already. the Cubs will have to eat his contract….if we can’t trade him, I’d bat him 7th.
by seesdifferent on Jun 16, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think that
trades involving some financial involvement will be approved by the current owner?
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In today's Tribune...
… and I can’t find the link right now, Hendry said he had not spoken to Crane Kenney lately about adding any payroll. This implies that he might do so before July 31 if he felt the right deal were in place.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
for the answer and for not linking to the Trib.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I really should post article links when I find them.
But I can’t find this one. I read it in the dead tree edition.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're credible enough
and we trust you’ve vetted your sources.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 15, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is
the article you were referring to.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jun 15, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All very sensible
Except the Harden trade. I think we’d be selling low on a guy who looked very much like the ace of our staff for a period of time last July & August. When healthy, Harden is capable of great things. While I know its probably foolish to count on his being healthy, the Cubs really aren’t doing that. They have enough capable starts in reserve to keep the rotation strong, so getting a healthy Harden back is a bonus.
Bottom line is I just can’t see the point in trading a guy who could easily be #2 in a playoff rotation, unless you’re getting a lot back in return. Right now, we won’t get that. The rest of your post I agree with.
by Orval Overall on Jun 15, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's how I look at Harden as well...
The Cubs are one of the few rotations that can afford the luxory of a pitcher like Harden: High impact pitcher when available, but frequently unavailable. Any team that needs him to be a continual presence will get burned.
The Cubs staff is so strong though that we can afford to enjoy his productivity, but then absorb the loss when he’s unable to play. Sicne there’s not a lot of teams like us, I’m not sure who would be a viable trading partner…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 15, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sell high and buy low
As much as I love Wells performance so far, I still have a nagging suspicion that the NL will begin to figure him out as he pitches more innings. Since he doesn’t have dominant stuff he may be relegated to an historical image of a guy who pitched his heart out and never got a win. With that being written, it makes a point to see what he’d bring on the open market. Dangle he Jim.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 15, 2009 1:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's my thought also.....
I think we know what we have with Harden. Wells on the other hand?? Time will tell.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jun 15, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, I appreciate the thought you put into this post.
I think the thing that would help most is for the ownership situation to be resolved.
It’s ridiculous for the Cubs to essentially have no one with the authority to make any financial decisions that differ with the current budget. Only the Cubs would have an ownership change drag into a 3rd year. LOL
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 15, 2009 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen before the season ends.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Post
Miles must go, I believe that is a unamious decision here at BCB.
Even though I would love to have DeRosa back, I see another team making a big push to get him, the guy is having a good year and Cleveland will hold out and get a good return on him.
Dome in the 2 hole, great, just start hitting the ball. No one would take Dome in a trade.
Harden is our chip. He is the most likely to go so the Cubs can get a good bat in return.
I am not a Bradley guy, however as mentioned by many, we need him to hit for this team to win.
I hope this is Lou’s last year, that is my opinion.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 15, 2009 1:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think a good poll, simply to see if it would be 100%
would be asking if Miles should be removed from the team.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The never-ending Cubs/Wrigley Sale
may preclude more “Contract-eating” as you suggest in item 1.
Not that I don’t want to see Miles go, it’s just that the economics of the situation may prevent management from burning more dollar bills. Which means we’re stuck with Miles until Hendry can bamboozle some other team to pick up his absurd contract.
However, this can be solved by packaging Miles with Harden in a trade; in other words, use Harden to get rid of Miles and solve two problems at once.
by JFCubFan on Jun 15, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That might work.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
+100 if you can find a way to get Chone Figgins in the return package.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 15, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about getting Rob Deer out of the leadoff spot?
Oh wait, I meant Soriano. I know, this topic’s been beaten to death, but come on. He’s hitting .230 now, with no speed any longer. Seriously, it’s like having Rob Deer lead off. No wonder we can’t score any runs. It just pisses me off that the whole lineup can get shaken up any given day, but Soriano must lead off no matter what. Drop the guy in the order until he gets out of his funk, already.
I agree with everything else wholeheartedly, especially on dumping Miles. Yet another player who looked a helluva lot better in Cardinal red than he’s looked anywhere else. Cut him loose, please.
by reedjohnson on Jun 15, 2009 1:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, having Rob Deer lead off...
… would at least give you a guy who walked fairly often. Deer’s lifetime OBA was 104 points higher than his lifetime BA. Soriano’s is 48 points higher. If Deer had even been able to hit .250 instead of .220 he’d have been a superstar.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two Words
Adam Dunn
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 15, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL...with what?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 15, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure we could get him if we wanted him...
…but, it doesn’t matter. If he were to be a Cub, then he would have been signed in the offseason. We sure could use him…
by TheHawkRules on Jun 15, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to have Dunn.
But unless you are willing to have Alfonso Soriano play 2B every day, there’s no place to play Dunn.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm... Soriano at 2B or Miles at 2B...
Sadly… Soriano might be an upgrade there.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 15, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is Miles
THAT bad?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does a guy regress
THAT much in a year?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries are likely a big part of it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 15, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was NEVER good
Ever. This is what Aaron Miles is. Jim Hendry and three hillbillies in St. Louis think he is a useful player.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And those hillbillies are "morans"!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 15, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope somebody has the pic handy
bc that is the guy who is sitting a Busch every night wondering where Miles is.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except
he did hit .300 last year. And he’s way below his career norms for this year.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 15, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That .300 is a mirage
His OPS+ was 99. That was his career season. He wasn’t even a league average player in his career season.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 15, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's worse than bad.
Not sure how he regresses or if he got off on the wrong foot but I have seen nothing that makes me believe he can help us. Maybe it’s injuries, but what we see is not good.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were real

by 


