Danks For Next-To-Nothing: Sox Lefty Stymies Cubs, 4-1
by Al on Jun 17, 2009 5:04 PM CDT
in Recaps
485 comments
Thanks to BCB reader Kentmeister who emailed me the headline suggestion during the game (actually, his suggestion was "Danks For Nothing", but the Cubs actually managed to score a run, so it's only "next to nothing").
The weather refuses to warm up in Chicago -- game time temperature 64 degrees, fog and a couple of glimpses of sun -- and the Cubs bats are also refusing to get hot. Maybe they're waiting for warm weather, but it's getting late in the season for that, and getting towards midseason for hitting prowess to finally show its face at Wrigley Field, too. (A little bit of warmth and sun wouldn't hurt, either.)
The Cubs lost 4-1 to the White Sox this afternoon and in his postgame remarks Lou said that it was "getting close to time to make some tough decisions".
May I respectfully say here that it's way past time for some of those tough decisions to be made. Not including today, since May 19 Alfonso Soriano is hitting .152/.222/.263 with 2 (yes, TWO) RBI, both on solo homers. It's time to give him some days off -- or maybe his knee is still bothering him enough to spend time on the DL. This should have probably been done a week ago. My friend Phil is convinced that if you platooned Micah Hoffpauir and Jake Fox in an outfield position, and I'm quoting here, "they'd hit .300 with 30 HR and 100 RBI in a full season."
Phil is exaggerating. There's no way those two guys are that good. Fox pinch-hit today and absolutely crushed a ball that we were all convinced was headed for the LF bleachers for a two-run homer. Brian Anderson made a nice catch at the wall, and all that resulted was Aaron Miles (who had, shockingly enough, doubled, only his seventh XBH of the season) advancing to third, where he scored the Cubs' consolation run on a groundout.
Ryan Dempster threw a decent game; too many walks (six), although only one of the walks resulted in a run. When did the Twins start wearing White Sox uniforms? The White Sox scored runs in a myriad of Twin-like ways today: a solo homer, a single followed by a triple, and then a perfectly-executed squeeze bunt by Scott Podsednik that he beat out for a hit. Once again, Cubs starting pitching put them in a position where any sort of decent offense could and should win a game. The Cubs twice had a runner in scoring position with nobody out (second and fourth innings) and failed to score, and the second time it was a runner on third with nobody out. There's a reasonable argument that Ryan Theriot should have tried to score on Derrek Lee's short fly ball to Anderson in CF with nobody out in the fourth, but Anderson, even though he was stumbling as he caught the ball, was only a few steps behind second base. I suspect Theriot would have been out easily and then everyone would be screaming that he shouldn't have gone and blamed Mike Quade, the weather and all the Sox fans in the ballpark (incidentally, there were far more Twins fans here last weekend than Sox fans today, possibly because of the weekday scheduling of this series).
Lou says he's got "tough decisions" to make. It is, as I noted above, way past time to make them. Tomorrow isn't too soon. Shake things up. Do something.
The weirdest thing of the day was the guy who sat in front of us; he kept getting up and coming back with newly-purchased caps on his head for him and his buddy, eventually four in all. We finally learned that he was upset with his employer because his salary had been cut and he told them he was "taking a client" to the ballpark. He ran up an expense account tab of close to $900. This season's bringing out all kinds of strange events. I'd settle for a few wins. Till tomorrow.
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DL Soriano.
Give Fox a couple weeks in left field.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 17, 2009 5:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That'd work for me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 17, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first one
is seeming more and more needed…
but Fox in LF is terrifying.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably the safest place to hide a defensive liability.
And he hit the ball harder today than Soriano has hit it in days, maybe weeks. It’s all I’ve got really.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 17, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, LF is the place to put your bad fielders...
If Fox can hit, that’s the place to put him. Unfortunately, one of our streakiest players is out there.
I do find it interesting that Piniella subbed Fox in for Soriano late in the game after he pinch hit, when he just as easily could have left Soriano in LF in the game and had Ascanio take the 9th spot in the batting order. Seems like maybe Soriano might get a day off soon?
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou said in the postgame...
…that Soriano should be well-rested after the off-day and the rainout, but I think he needs a long rest. Maybe rehab on his knee if it’s that bad. Something.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 17, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something is going on...
As far as I can tell this1.5 month stretch of sub-.650 OPS ball is the longest stretch of slump that Soriano has had since he emerged as a big-time hitter. He’s definitely had bad months, but they’re usually surrounded by solid or great months.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm finding humor in Soriano right now
Like I’m wondering if it’s possible for Aaron Miles to get a higher batting average than him.
All joking aside, he’s starting to hit worse than Andruw Jones.
by ak123 on Jun 17, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, I'd take Andruw Jones over him now.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Soriano is crying for a DL stint right now. If he were a horse, they would have shot him by now.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is,
is he hurt? Or isn’t he?
If he isn’t, then going on the DL isn’t going to do anything to help.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rehab stint might
15 days off and a week in Iowa to fix his brain when facing low-and-away may be just what the doctor ordered. Now we gotta pay off the doctor in order to order it.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The doc can always say that Soriano was blown away by the sound system in his car.
Talk about decadence, is this something that Soriano really likes in his car? Where does he keep the groceries?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Groceries? Who needs groceries when you're on cribs! Biatch!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
I’m only a proponent of DLing Soriano if he’s actually hurt. If it’s just a really prolonged slump, there’s not much you can do but try to help and wait it out.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comparing this year to every other full year he's been in MLB....
The dude’s hurt – I’ll bet on it. Sore knees don’t do a lot for balance in the batters box. The guy’s never played this badly since his first full season.. by a LONG shot.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 17, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish this guy was buying the team.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 17, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dude's defiled the precious skyline
any more fingerprints on Chicago institutions is grounds for a treasonous hanging….
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 17, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES THAT IS WHAT......
Needs to happen…But i don’t think it will………..
by cubs north on Jun 17, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Fox
needs to start. See what he can do. This offense sucks, and you just gotta give him a chance.
But all I know, is that Jim Hendry has to be thinking about cutting his wrist after signing Soriano to that long, long contract. He’s a good player — but I just cridge at the thought of Soriano in years 6, 7 and 8 of his contract.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 17, 2009 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll probably still be paying for him for those years
But if he keeps showing his current prowess, I can guarantee he won’t be playing them in a Chicago Cubs uniform.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is.
He should be the most dangerous bat in this lineup. Instead, he might be the third or possibly fourth (when Ramirez gets back) BEST hitter in this lineup.
He will hit 10 HR in 2 weeks and then hit .140 for the 2 weeks after that. Way too streaky to be getting paid the salary he gets.
Tamia Lynn Davis:
Born: August 18, 2008
by Unique on Jun 17, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rockies kept paying
for Mike Hampton long after, yet they still made the World Series somehow.
by The E-Man on Jun 17, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now
There really isnt much to say. This team needs a shakeup. Lets start with getting rid of Miles.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 17, 2009 5:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That'd work for me, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 17, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet another Quality Start ruined
We should’ve got the live chicken.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 5:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dempster was very fortunate to get that quality start...
Six walks and four hits and a WP through 6+ is not great. But given that he was generally able to get out of jams, we definitely had opportunities.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
quality?
I wouldn’t call 6 walks in 6 innings quality. I know the definition of a quality start, but this one is quality in name only.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
by danimal15 on Jun 17, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a controversial term.
Still, Demp kept the team in the game. This anemic offense asks too much of any pitcher.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 17, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding on that one
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not seeing the controversy here
Demp wasn’t unhittable, but the fact of the matter is that he only gave up 3 runs. That our offense couldn’t at least match that number is where the trouble lies.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the "controversy"
is over what should be considered “quality”.
But I don’t really see it either. Anything at or less than 4.50 ERA is quality starting pitching, i.e. you should be able to win consistently with that sort of pitching.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It resulted in a quality start...
Dempster didn’t have a great performance, giving up 10 baserunners. But he managed to only allow 3 runs in 6 innings. That’s the worst possible quality start, but it’s still a quality start.
I agree he didn’t look good in doing it, and 6 walks is not indicative of a good performance. But, as I said, he was VERY fortunate to only allow 3 runs.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The home plate umpire was also only allowing him to use 2/3rds of the plate.
NOTHING on the inner 1/3 was a strike for Dempster.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 17, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like we can't get anyone going at the same time...
First Lee, Soto, and Bradley couldn’t touch the ball, but Soriano and Fukudome were killing it. Then Lee heated up and Fontenot fell off the map and Ramirez got hurt. Now Bradley and Soto seem to be waking up, but Fukudome and Soriano are slumping mightily.
We never seem to have any more than a guy or two going really well at any point, and when the guys are not doing well, they are REALLY not doing well.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 5:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Soto is heating up, I think he's eating up.
Geo’s has packed on some pounds and I think that’s affecting him. Has anyone else noticed this?
What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella
by smash! on Jun 17, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think Soto heating up?
I would have to disagree
BA, OBP, SLP, OPS
Overall .223 .332 .318 .650
May .278 .376 .354 .730
Jun .250 .314 .500 .814
Last 7 days .350 .381 .600 .981
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 17, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday: he missed every ball by A MILE.
What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella
by smash! on Jun 18, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it true
that Sori is signed thru 2014??? If so, God help us!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Jun 17, 2009 5:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great scam, huh?
Must be nice to be get a huge paycheck for not performing with no chance of not getting paid.
Gotta love free agency and swindling agents. At least during short-term contracts a team gets the benefit of a player playing lights out during his contract year.
That’s my opinion of Soriano and many other players who go through the motions of being a professional baseball player after signing huge long term contracts. Yes, there are exceptions, but, hey, if he can get away with it and handle the press and booing fans….
BTW, Soriano, why do you seem dis-interested in the game and stare at your fingernails in the dugout?
OK, flach, get down from your soapbox….
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on Jun 17, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now. hold on a minute..
Since his first full season in the league in 2001, Sori has never hit less than .268, and never more than .300. His .229 BA and OPS under .800 (at .749 WAY under) for the first time since 2001 says somethings wrong right now that wasn’t wrong the year before that, or before that, or before that. He’s hurt, and needs to get unhurt. We don’t need him, hurt or healthy, in June, we need him healthy in October.
Thank God we have Soriano through 2014. He slugs the snot out of the ball, can steal bases, and fields serviceably (did you know he totalled only 11 errors in 2007 and 2008 combined?).
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 17, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He slugs the snot out of the ball, can steal bases, and fields serviceably (did you know he totalled only 11 errors in 2007 and 2008 combined?).
Which is why I call him the best LF in the league.
When he’s hitting.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 17, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And when he's healthy
He usually runs really smooth and quickly without laboring… but he looks bad out there now.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion is that he's complacent
First, let me say that I am a fan of Soriano’s. It is my opinion that no baseball player is worth locking in for 8 years after age 30. Soriano signed this deal at age 31. He’s signed until age 39.
The dollars are locked in at $18M a year for the next 5 years. Rising payout. Diminishing returns? Maybe.
We have over 5 more years of put up or shut up.
One of the best hitters in baseball, Albert Pujols, is 29. He’s under contract through 2010 ($16M per year) with a club option in 2011. Pujols will be 32 when he signs a new contract in 2012 (unless he re-negotiates sooner). Do you think a team is going to sign him for 7 more years (through age 39) at $25M-30M a year?
That’s basically what Soriano did. Signed at age 31 for 8 years. I think that’s insane.
Do you think Joe Mauer will get an 8-year deal for $25M-30M a year? He’s only 26. He signs a new contract in 2011 (age 28).
My opinion is that contracts have gotten out-of-hand. Paying a player what equates to $25.000 per at bat means the player has to produce for the next 5 years! That’s asking a lot from a player like Soriano.
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on Jun 17, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Braun has, what, 0 or 1 errors in LF?
Lousy, lousy way to judge someone’s fielding
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 18, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the error he got was for an awesome throw to the plate
The catcher dropped it. I’m hard pressed to find anything that he isn’t doing an excellent job at.
by ol Pete on Jun 18, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
but evaluating a fielder on their errors isn’t the best way.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 18, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point, and he knows it
And he won’t be back to reply because you stated it clearly.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 18, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, one has to love FA and "swindling" agents?
They are just as endearing as swindling owners that want taxpayers to subsidize their investments, and GMs that seem to offer such contracts knowing the chances that they will be around then are lower so if it doesn’t workout it’s not likely their problem.
by DudeVf11 on Jun 18, 2009 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I'd like to
see RJ, and not an empty out leading off for at least five days-a week.
It is so pathetic.
by The E-Man on Jun 17, 2009 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd be okay with Theriot leading off...
A Johnson/Fukudome platoon in CF batting 2nd, and Fox/Hoffpauir in LF batting 6th or so.
I’m not sure what’s going on with Soriano, but this is getting ridiculous. If his injury is affecting him, I’d go with the lineup I mention above.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However - unless Theriot
stops trying to believe he is an HR hitter, he will not make a good lead-off guy. He has hardly taken anywhere the amount of BB’s as last year at this same time I’d think.
by The E-Man on Jun 17, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point
Every Cub needs to be working the count more and drawing some walks. DeLee has been hitting the ball to right field lately, but EVERYONE else seems to be swinging for the fences. Reed Johnson and Theriot come to mind today.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Jun 17, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Lou considered having Reed bunt when he came up with runner at first and second
and nobody out? The team is not getting any big innings so they need to scratch and claw more. You could just smell a double play ball coming up. Danks was throwing inside a lot and we were hitting a ton of grounders to third. You cn’t sit on your hands and wit for a big blow with this team now. No one is hitting the ball out of the park.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering that too
Especially after the first big swing. It would have been a surprise, if nothing else.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 17, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like Reed is a power hitter. On his best day he gets a hit and drives one in. At
least a bunt puts some pressure on the defense. Who knows, Beckham may have throw one in the stands.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been more productive than Johnson...
That’s why I’d bat him there if Soriano is given time off. There just aren’t a lot of alternatives.
Johnson has been really productive against LHP, but he’s proven to be a platoon hitter throughout his career (RHP tend to eat him up). So while Theriot isn’t an ideal candidate to lead off, he’s the best alternative we have if Soriano is given rest and Fukudome still isn’t hitting.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another frustrating game to watch
This team isn’t interested in manufacturing runs. Don’t we have anyone that can bunt? Steal a base? Move runners along? Get hit by a pitch? The Cubs aren’t stringing any hits together. And when someone like Fox crushes a ball, it always lands just short of the basket.
The White Sox executed a perfect squeeze, got a solo HR and put the Cubs on the defensive immediately. The Cubs best chance is to score some early runs and take a little of the pressure off…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Jun 17, 2009 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In fact, why Reed
did not get a little more PT when Dome was whiffing time after time, is perplexing.
Why platoon, if the player cannot het at all?
by The E-Man on Jun 17, 2009 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What about reeds game today makes you believe that?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed - however
I believe he was the NL player of the month for May (or maybe Cubs player of the Month?).
He needs PT. And, based on the results of his team mates, he deserves it. At least for a week or so…
by The E-Man on Jun 17, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not the player of the month...
Didn’t play enough. Justin Upton was player of the month.
The problem with Johnson is that he just doesn’t hit RHP very well. He absolutely KILLS LHP though.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't today...
I’d like to see Reed, Fukudome, and Milton play tomorrow. Time to rest sori, we need you to figure it out.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dome can hit... but I also think you're right.
He needs a mental break. Let him be a late-inning defensive replacement for two weeks, and let him spell Johnson every four days or so when there’s a good pitching matchup for him. Put him back out there in a couple of weeks. Maybe he can take some pointers from Z on how to unload some of his stress (he’s pressing) so he doesn’t get wound up (like a corkscrew) to the point where he outthinks his hitting. Since i’m also thinking DL’ing Sori would be a good call, the cubs outfield will be RJ, MB, and Hoff, with Fuke platooning. It’s just for a couple of weeks.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 17, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
decisions
I agree I’d like to see Lou do something to shake up the club, but I would hope he doesn’t do anything rash, just because people are demanding that he shake things up. It’s still pretty early, and the team is still near .500 and not too far back in the standings. The way Lou is talking, he sounds like he’s ready to “white flag” it, as the Sox did in mid-season some years ago. I think if “shaking up” means putting Soriano on the DL and letting Fox and Hoffpauer get regular playing time, that’s fine. But don’t do anything stupid that’s going to hurt later, because there are still close to 100 games left.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
by danimal15 on Jun 17, 2009 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou may be stubborn
but he’s not stupid.
There is a point when no matter who the Superstar is, they hurt the team with prolonged spells of failure.
by The E-Man on Jun 17, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugly
I can’t think anything else to write.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Okay I'm an optimist.
Is milton finally figuring it out?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. He is just making more contact. When was the last time he hit a ball hard? He seems to
hit a bunch of flares and wounded ducks. He never seems to catch the ball on the sweet meat of the bat. He also seems to have a problem catching up to a decent fastball. I can’t remember the last time he squared one up.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Making contact is good progress
He wouldn’t be the first guy who needed to catch some luck by hitting wounded ducks before he got on a roll of squaring the ball up.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just expected a lot more thunder out of his bat. He was hitting ropes in ST and I
was really excited. Now he hits like the rest of the smurfs on the infield.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame Milton Bradley.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 17, 2009 5:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just because?
Or did he do something I missed?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
/sarcasm
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 17, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Figured
But sometimes…. It’s hard to tell. ;-)
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve figured me out, HBCG.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 17, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have my moments
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Von said today that he's been
watching film of the guys hitting and has talked to MB and Dome a little bit. He said he is anxious to start working with the players. Make it soon Von and make it work!!!
by sue369 on Jun 17, 2009 5:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He got a man's job on his hands. I can't remember the last time I saw a Cub team look this
lost at the plate. The only player hitting the ball with any authority is Jake Fox. DLee is hitting line drives, but he is strikking out a lot too. Every pither we face now looks like Cy Young. Our hitters seem to be getting fooled by too many pitches. It’s painful to watch this team hit now.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Its even more frustrating to me b/c of how close the pitchers are keeping the games. Knowing that we’re 3 good ABs away from a win is unbelievably aggravating.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may be 3 good ABs away, but it feels like a thousand.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True dat
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen bad Cubs teams play badly
But there really is no reason for this group of hitters to be scuffling as much as they have. This prolonged a slump is beginning to defy explanation.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When does it stop being a 'slump'
and just the reality of what this team is. I’d say we are just about there.
by jeff_pico on Jun 17, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sadly I agree that we are just about there
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 17, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the reality of the team
is that they’re all slumping. The reality is that they should — that’s SHOULD — regress to mean, which means that everyone starts hitting more.
Maybe they won’t, but they’re NOT this bad a team.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 17, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SMALL BALL
If they Cubs had runners in scoring position twice today, with no outs, where are guys taking at bats to advance the runners? WIth this team obviously struggling to score runs, a few bunts here and a squeeze there to put a run or two on the board would go along way. Our pitching staff is keeping us in these games, its time we gave them some run support. Getting a run back can sure ease some pressure off of the starter.
Andy R.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Jun 17, 2009 5:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Reed should have been bunting with runners on and no outs.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thinking the same thing
Cubs need to get on a mentality that every inning is extra innings and they need to score one run. If they can successfully do that 3 innings, we would have won a bunch more games!
by ak123 on Jun 17, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt about it
With no outs and after Beckham made a couple of bad plays at 3rd, bunt the dudes over. I kinda wanted to punch Lou in the face on that one.
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jun 17, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, we hit 3-run homers all of the time, right?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would prefer to just look @ him and say WTF are you thinking this year?
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 17, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Lou
has checked out for the season. He looks more lost than the batters at home plate.
by sue369 on Jun 17, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
He’s looks disintrested at best
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jun 17, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What can we expect?
Sean Marshall and Big Z. are hitting almost as good as Bradley (.234), better than Soriano, and much better than Miles (.203) or Soto (.217) or Sori (.225).
Something has to happen soon.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 6:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Outplayed today in every facet of the game....
Pitching, hitting, running, fielding, throwing, managing…..
i’m sure there are others to add to the list.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 17, 2009 6:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Somewhere Gerald Perry is laughing at Jim Hendry
Lucky for us at this rate Hendry will be looking for work pretty soon too.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 17, 2009 6:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if I don't agree with what Hendry's done
I’m not going to be happy that anyone has lost their job.
There’s already been enough of that.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was doing yard
work after the game, and was mumbling to myself about Soriano. He has to go on the DL. Platoon Fox and Hoff in left, bring Fuld up to play some “D” late if the Cubs ever get a lead.
When your leadoff hitter is useless, doesn’t walk, doesn’t take pitches, is always staring at an 0-2 count, the manager refuses to put him down in the lineup, then DL him, enough.
What a joy it must be for the opposing pitcher to throw to this lineup. All you have to do is stay away, whether it is a fastball or a breaking pitch. I have watched the Cub hitters closely the last two weeks, and they refuse to go the other way, except for Lee and Theriot ( Theriot almost naturally hits to right unless he is trying to jack everything). Cub hitters are so pull happy it is not funny. The visiting team scores 3 runs and it is ballgame time, just plain sad.
One other thing, I do not want to hear about " Well when Ramy comes back", enough of that. Mets are 4 games over .500, without Delgado, Reyes, Church was on the DL, Maine is on the DL, O. Perez on the DL, Ramon Martinez on the DL, Pagan on the DL, Putz on the DL. They are hanging in there, sure they play the Nats, however they got the Phillies also.
Lou and Jimbo you are running out of time, DL Soriano and please for all us release Miles.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 17, 2009 6:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
who do you send down
to bring Fuld up? We really need another light-hitting scrappmeister?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 17, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Open up another can of smurfs.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone see Lou's presser?
If so, did Lou draw back into the “I’ve tried everything” woe is me response?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 17, 2009 6:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, whaddaya gonna do?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 17, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looked like me after a heated discussion with my wife.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou looks defeated and not very happy. He looks exhausted. He'd rather be sailing....
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring on Bob!
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jun 17, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000
Obviously it is easy to look good when you dont have to make the critical decisions, but Brenley’s commentary suggests to me that he is hungry to manage again, acutely aware of what is wrong with this cubs team, and willing to make a go of it. Id take that anyday over what we have now.
Lou is joining the long list of Cubs managers who have just been beaten down by this team. Last season’s playoff “run” might have been his last hurrah.
by Ryanocm1 on Jun 17, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Acutely aware of what's wrong with this team"? Everybody knows
what’s wrong – they don’t hit. I doubt it very seriously if Brenly has some secret idea of why this team is in a collective slump. If he knew why, it would have been solved by now. This team is a puzzle wrapped in a question mark surronded by an enigma. This team defies conventional wisdom and has a good baseball man like Lou scratching his head. This season is so Cub-like it’s not even funny.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 18, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Lou was a great choice for this team when hired and
I still like him. However…
I usually thing baseball managers are looking for their walking papers when they say stuff like this and his I’ve tried everything dandy from Saturday.
I don’t buy into the fiery manager versus player manager stuff as both kinds work. Lou looks like the Lou that gave up and drifted off in Tampa.
Anyway, I’m not too optomistic, but there’s still time. I say give Lou and the squad until closer to 7/1 to show turnaround and some life.
If there is no life, there may be something to the theory that 35 is the new 40 in this post PED and Greenie world and it’s time for the team to get younger in manager and lineup.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 17, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
thing=think
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 17, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, came back to amend my comments from yesterday and am pleased to
see it green.
Anyway, I listend to Lou’s complete postgame conference last night and I’m not sure he’s thrown up his hands, yet.
I didn’t hear “whaddya gonna do” or “I’ve tried everything.” I heard the team has a couple more games in the current version before Lou makes major lineup changes. I also heard implied that nothing is off the table so Bradley, Soriano, & Soto could be sitting, Soriano hitting at #6, Fox starting in LF, etc.
I still wonder about whether superstar players, in the aggregate, will perform past 35 as they have the last 15 years and and not sure Lou has abandoned ship just yet.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 18, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only is this losing baseball
it’s incredibly boring baseball. I’m beginning to ignore the games.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 17, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's also depressing baseball
when the other team scores first early & the Cubs find themselves playing catchup.
by JFCubFan on Jun 17, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I can’t remember a more lifeless Cub team then this one. When you come off back to back division titles and play like this, just no excuse. Sad to say this team would have trouble beating the Nats. This team is just plain bad.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 17, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boring is right!
That was a brutal game to watch:
Your starter couldn’t find home plate and would have given up 6-7 runs against a better team.
The offense, was woeful. Not one hitter ever went with a pitch (with runners on base) and there were some absolutely feeble swings.
Every hitter on the club should be thinking about driving the ball up the middle, but most are trying to yank everything.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 17, 2009 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This season compares to many others
In that the Cubs just aren’t patient hitters. Today the Sox had six walks and we had none! We swing at the first pitch in many instances and really don’t work the count.. How do you solve this situation and when it’s so obvious? It’s also possible that the powers that be fells that this isn’t a problem. What do you all think?
by Saratoga on Jun 17, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
great observation
the hitters are pressing. all of this great pitching is going to waste…
by brian custer on Jun 17, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too much pressure on Cub pitching
Go with 11 pitchers and put Waddell on the DL, if he isn’t already there, to make it happen. They have to keep 14 position players.
Everybody knows what to do with Soriano. So, first he goes on the 15-day DL. From there a minor league stint and then back in LF, at least for a while, batting him 6, 7, or 8 in the lineup. Put a slugger in LF, and if there is a disaster on D then Johnson. Theriot leads-off.
I agree, the most recent radar reading says Bradley is coming around. Pray that it is true and continues because they need his bat and they need his defense in RF.
Fukudome can draw walks when he’s not pressing. They need his defense in the outfield.
Sit Soto more and if necessary get another backup catcher. I have more more confidence in Hill than that sounds like.
Again, pray that Lee can start hitting with more power. He has to go yard and get extra base hits. Move him down in the lineup too or bat him 2nd, assuming Bradley and Fox can take the 3 and 4 spots.
Still think it is a good idea to get a serviceable 3rd baseman for the rest of the season. Not relying on Ramirez being full-strength when he returns.
I don’t understand how Jim Hendry keeps his job. Granted, Lou should have fixed lead-off a long time ago.
Cub pitching has to hang-in there tough. The White Sox aren’t as good as they looked today, but they have a good bullpen.
by AboutTheCubs on Jun 17, 2009 6:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know, what's even worse
is that not only is this losing baseball, it’s about as boring as baseball could be.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 17, 2009 6:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
erm. you said this already. look up!
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jun 17, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He must really mean it to say it twice lol
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 17, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the lack of patience is obvious to us
The Cubs management has to have addressed this lack of impatience with the players. I understand that you don’t want to take the bat out of the players hands, but the old cliche still works, “A walk is as good as a hit” especially when the team is struggling. I wish I had the answer, but I think we need to be much more selective in our pitch selection. My opinion only.
by Saratoga on Jun 17, 2009 6:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think someone wrote today that the Cubs haven't had a homer with a guy on base
in a month. Is this true?
This team has absolutely no power
by Mapmaker on Jun 17, 2009 6:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it was one homer with a man on base since May 19.
That’s from my memory from earlier today, but I think that was the poster said.
by Saratoga on Jun 17, 2009 6:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its just sad
I really don’t know what can be done. The guys that should be producing are all there except for Ramirez. Sure sit Soriano and play Fox in left but that leaves what 3 guys that are any semblence of decent hitting (Lee, Bradley, Fox) it just won’t be enough. To be a really good team you need contributions up and down the lineup we saw that last year.
I think its just a matter of time before Pinella’s gone.
by jeff_pico on Jun 17, 2009 6:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess I should be happy for rain outs
Earlier today I was saying how frustrating it was for me to get home from work yesterday and then see that the game was rained out. I only had to suffer through todays game on gamday. I feel sorry for my 81 year old mother in Burbank, CA who had to see this pathetic game today.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by tucsoncubsfan on Jun 17, 2009 6:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And listen to Hawk and Stone to boot
Tell your mom “sorry” from every Cub fan.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pedro martinez?
SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic (AP)—Pedro Martinez…. could be back on a major league mound soon.
The right-hander said on Wednesday that he has had talks with the Chicago Cubs and Tampa Bay Rays and hopes to sign a contract in the near future.
by brian custer on Jun 17, 2009 6:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
can he hit with runners in scoring position?
by jeff_pico on Jun 17, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that surprised me
where would he fit in?
by brian custer on Jun 17, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pedro quote
"Chicago and Tampa Bay are the two teams that have shown the most interest and we are negotiating with them, although I’ve told my agent not to call me until it’s a done deal," he said.
Martinez wants to sign with the team that has the best chance of winning a pennant.
"I need the emotion of competition," he said.
by brian custer on Jun 17, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well i guess Jim gets Pedro and trades Harden for a bat/3b
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jun 17, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't see Hendry trading Harden for a 3B...
but maybe a 2B bat and a reliever (and/or prospects)? With Ramirez hopefully back in a month or so, I can’t see trading for a position that will soon be filled.
Note: this would only be if Martinez proves capable of giving 6 innings of quality pitching on a consistent basis. Otherwise, trading Harden for a bat is just an example of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd do that.
Harden for DeRosa? A possibility?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 17, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you this, Al
You never give up. There’s something to be said for that. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
What would you say if they actually made this deal? Or some other deal for DeRosa?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 17, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say
I hope he does well (as I would for any new acquisition the Cubs make). But if you’re expecting miracles, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. And the woes of the current club have nothing to do with him not being on it.
Now please, I don’t want to keep revisiting this subject every night, so don’t bait me on it any longer.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No miracles expected.
However, he’s far better than trotting Aaron Miles out there every day. On that, I don’t think you would disagree with me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point, right now,
YOU might be better at second base than Miles. :P
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd upgrade the offense, BUT...
1. it’s not going to happen; and
2. I don’t think it’s worth the downgrade in the rotation from Harden to Marshall/Martinez
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing involved in this DeRo love is
Even if the Cubs did get him, would they sign him to another contract? I’d doubt it immensely.
Oddly, I’ve heard people say DLee should go because he’s in “decline,” but Hendry gets filleted for taking that step with DeRosa when there was good reason to think he wouldn’t top what he did last year.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I need the emotion of competition
So do the Cubs.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on Jun 17, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CAN HE PLAY SECOND BASE??
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 17, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I want to know if the Cubs checked how he fields the position.....
of 3rd base
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 17, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard today that the Cubs pitching is 3rd best in the NL
and our hitting is second-to-last. The fact that our record is right about .500 makes a lot of sense when you consider those stats.
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on Jun 17, 2009 6:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But wait....isn't pitching king?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
but 0-1 is still checkmate
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 17, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We only have thirteen more runs than the Padres. The PADRES! The ones who
play in a cavernous ball park and have one descent hitter. That is really embarassing.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 18, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you meant "decent" hitter
The Cubs have a bunch of descending hitters
"I knew we were in for a long season when we lined up for the national anthem on opening day and one of my players said, 'Every time I hear that song I have a bad game.'" - Jim Leyland
by flachimesa on Jun 18, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't checked in
a week -
but I believe they were #1 with WHIP and BAA.
If it wasn’t for their starters, they would be honestly in last place.
by The E-Man on Jun 17, 2009 7:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Only good part of my day.
During the 7th inning stretch, Hawk was waving his arm at Cubs fans. Sitting in row 1, section 421, he looked down at me and I flipped him the bird. Class? No I didn’t demonstrate that. But for those 5 seconds, it made a small part of me feel better.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 7:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good job, man!
You see, I’m not feeling too classy myself today :-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said earlier,
I think this slump is beginning to defy explanation.
I’m beginning to wonder if the pressure of playing for or managing this franchise is more than anybody can bear. More than the Red Sox, more than the Yankees, more than anybody.
How else do you explain this many proven hitters failing? How else can you explain managers who have had success everywhere else coming to Chicago and not living up to expectations?
Sometimes when you want something badly, it doesn’t happen. And sometimes when you least expect it, something good happens.
I don’t know if this makes any sense. But if I’m right about this, then I don’t know if there is anything anybody can do about it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've thought about this many times before.
I agree with you. All it takes is for that one group of guys to have the make-up to say, who gives an f. Let’s just play the way we do and what happens, happens. It takes a moment in time when a team’s back is so far against the wall that they just let things flow. What keeps my faith is thinking about the Red Sox and Dave Roberts.
At this point I’m hoping we back our way into the playoffs, no one gives us a chance, and we come out playing loose. I know it may be a stretch, but hey I’m optimistic.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's a stretch
I think they probably will back into the playoffs. After that, anything’s possible.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...
…win the whole f___ing thing!"
"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome
by Goodie1969 on Jun 17, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pressure is too much for them to bear IMO
I had to laugh watching Lou in that press conference today- he looked like a beaten down old man who Cubdom has eaten up and spitten out. I hate to say it, but the North Side is where managers go to die. They may show up with fire, passion, and optimism, but give em a few years, and they’ll be relegated to confusion and apathy, muttering “I don’t know, dude” as the Cubbie occurrences add up. Same goes for some of these free agent signings of ours- they show up in Wrigley and suddenly forget how to hit a baseball , bunt, or run bases. I personally don’t believe in curses, but it makes you wonder sometimes…
I think the pressure is too much t for these guys to bear. As I’ve said before, it would take incredibly strong men to win a World Series for the Chicago Cubs.
by reedjohnson on Jun 17, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Packer fan, I can make the comparison
Coaching the Packers in the era between Lombardi and Favre had a similar effect on the guys unlucky enough to get the job. They would come in full of vinegar and assure the huge, loyal fanbase that changes were coming, and things were going to get better and better. Two to three years in, with no success to their name, they would slink quietly out of town, beaten men who had no idea it could get that bad that fast.
Pictures of Forrest Gregg in 1984 show a man in his early fifties, with more than a little hint of his youthful fire. Pictures of the same man 3 years later show a guy who looks like he’s pushing seventy with just a couple of marbles still rolling around upstairs.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What amazes me is all of the players who say that the want to play for this team. I just
don’t understand it. If I were a free agent, I wouldn’t come within a thousand miles of this franchise. For some reason, it just chews people up and spits them out. They leave here looking like the just got run over by a garbage truck. Even the few lucky ones like Maddux end up coming back. It defies any explanation that I know of.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 18, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone wants to be the guy who ends it
A legend.
Plus, Wrigley is full, interesting and historic even when the team sucks.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 18, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question is,
why does it leave people looking like they just got run over by a garbage truck? Why?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 18, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There could be some truth to that.
But no one forced Hendry to sign Soriano for a perverted amount of money (and all of us here in DC already knew him all too well), and then give away DeRo for pittance. No one forced Hendry to sign Dome, Bradley, or Miles, Gathright or Farney/Freel. Or to depend on Fontenot. This is Jimbo’s team.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very fair point.
Hendry made back to back division championships, but he also has to take ownership of this team too.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he does
But I think there were legitimate reasons for each move. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t and sometimes it’s too early to tell.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Gathright
There was no excuse for anyone thinking he could contribute.
by rlpete on Jun 17, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also
the 25th guy on the roster. I’m not going to get too out of joint about that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
but I’m still amazed that the Cubs signed him. As you said, you could find reasons for the other moves. I still can’t figure out what they wanted with someone who slugged .272 in almost 300 AB’s last year. He has a lifetime .303 “slugging” average.
by rlpete on Jun 17, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A guy like that
is also pretty fungible, too. If he doesn’t work out, you can get rid of him somewhat easily without much of an issue.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Jimbo was upset that he had to get rid of Pie.
And he thought that Gathright would be a good replacement?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad theory at all
They’re very similar players.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry signed
exactly the kind of player Cubs fans were screaming for. Lots of power, lots of home runs.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 17, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree...
This team just has problems. The Ramirez injury just exposed them.
- The roster was poorly constructed.
- Fukudome has not shown he is major league hitter.
- While still good, Lee is not the same hitter either due to age or the injury.
- Fontenot is not a major league regular.
- Soto is coming around but has struggled in his second year.
Only Bradley could be explained by too much pressure. The starting pitching sure isn’t struggling under the pressure.
by rlpete on Jun 17, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
In my opinion, only some of those are true. Yes, ish, yes, no and yes. This roster has absolutly no depth and it has been very noticably exposed. Although fukudomes struggled recently and his “falling off the face of the earth” last year, he has shown he can hit major leage pitching and he takes tons of walks. hes being too patient tho, taking first pitch fastballs right down freakin broadway. Lee is a declining player even tho he has seemed to have a bit of a rebirth as of late. fontenot just like everybody else on this team is “slumping”. im using quotations becuz this is one helluva slump for the entire team. Soto was god awful in the beginin of the year, but has little by little looked like the guy who won ROTY last year. And (cross yoyur fingers), the monopoly man has actually been looking like the guy who led the AL in OPS last year. I would be very angry if the cubs signed Pedro. HENDRY! GET THIS IN UR HEAD!! UR TEAM CANNOT HIT TO SAVE ITS LIFE BUT UR PITCHING IS PROBABLY THE BEST IN THE MAJORS!!! ADDING PEDRO WOULD BE USELESS!
It better happen...
by Chicago White Sux on Jun 17, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they sign Pedro
with the idea they can trade a pitcher (Harden?) for another bat or two, I’m good with it.
Otherwise, it really doesn’t make any sense, unless you think you’re going to win every game 1-0.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
Getting Pedro would only be useful if it allows trade flexibility. Improving our starting pitching isn’t really a need at the moment. The staff can’t do much better than it’s been done.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For trade flexibility
Wouldn’t we have to showcase him? When would that happen?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not trading Pedro - trading someone like Harden...
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Harden is already (or soon will be) in play
He’s a FA after this year, and he hasn’t shown any less inclination to go on the DL. If we can get 4 starts in a row out of him before July 10th, I think Hendry starts calling around and seeing what he can get for a starter who tosses more than 1 K per IP.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Harden being traded unless depth arrives first
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you give Wells a couple of more starts
If he does well, trade Harden and bring Marshall back into the starting rotation.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the team will be comfortable going with both young guys...
for extended time. I think they’re going to go with proven guys 1-4 and one of Marshall and Wells as the #5.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point
What do we have to lose by going young in two starter spots? We start losing games 6-1 instead of 3-1? Assuming Wells can (reasonably) fill a rotation spot, you can deal Harden for a bat, keeping salary numbers even and providing what this team really needs to compete right now.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you sign Pedro
and he’s effective — he doesn’t have to be lights out — then Harden becomes expendable. And you can leave the rest of the pitching staff as is.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying what I think will happen...
I don’t think the Cubs are going to be comfortable going with Marshall and Wells (with no fallback) as the #4 and #5 on the back end of the rotation.
I’m not sure if Pedro is going to be acquired. But if he’s productive, that gives the team the flexibility to trade Harden and still have six capable starters (one in the bullpen just in case).
I’m also not sold on Wells continuing his success. He’s wildly exceeded his minor league performance. I fear that as teams get accustomed, they’ll start hitting him better. We’ll see though – I hope I’m wrong.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed about Wells
I think he could be a good one, but I’d like to see more before I go all in with him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Want to see more, but he’s impressed me so far.
Not just b/c he’s pitched well, but b/c he hasn’t let a lot of the crap around him get to him. Seems very chill.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the way I see Wells, too
I’m reserving judgment on him until his second start vs. any given team. If they bat him around the yard, we’ll know his stellar beginning was just due to inadequate scouting.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's why I think the Cubs are hesitant to trade Harden...
I don’t think they’re sold on Wells or Marshall enough to rely on both in the rotation down the stretch in a pennant race. One or the other is fine. But having four “reliable” guys in the rotation is what I think they’ll go with.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they're pretty sold on Marshall
but they do need to watch his IP. A full season in the rotation would jump his career high up by about 70 IP, I think.
Thats a lot for a young-ish guy in one year.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question is
would Pedro be as good as or an improvement over whoever is in the starting five currently?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a good question...
And that’s why you’d have to wait and see what he can do before making any trades.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, Harden might be the only guy
who you can/should trade. He and Pedro would be a push contract-wise, presumably (I can’t imagine the Cubs would want Pedro in 2010).
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I definitely don’t think Pedro can pitch as well as Harden. But he may be able to pitch well enough to make Harden expendable (for the right pieces).
Obviously, they can’t know that until they see what Pedro can do. So if we were to get Pedro, I wouldn’t see any trade of Harden until after Pedro came up and proved he can still be a productive starter.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly
If they sign him soon, the trade deadline should provide enough time to tell.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As an aside
I know we’ve had our disputes, but I’ve really enjoyed the give and take tonight.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After another wrenching defeat
I’d say that’s a big accomplishment. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Managers who have had success everywhere else?
Piniella: Last WS victory was 19 years ago, recent history with Seattle shows a manager who can get into the play-offs and do nothing else. Recent history with Tampa Bay shows an old man who throws in the towel when the going gets tough.
Baker: No WS rings. Made the WS once, and lost it with the best* hitter in baseball.
Kimm: (shudder)
Baylor: Nice regular season record with the Rookies, one embarrassing post-season appearance.
Shall I keep going back?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
At least the last two have had significant posteason successes.
Who would you have hired AT THE TIME (not with hindsight) other than Baker and Piniella?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know Joe Girardi isn't doing too well with the Yankees.
But he “gets” the Cubs and Chicago and he wanted to come back “home”. Maybe that would have been better?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the time was in favor of Girardi over Lou.
I thought Lou was too old and didn’t understand the intangibles he brought. Hindsight is showing that he just doesn’t make the moves that we would like. But again I say, he got us back to back division championships. The players failed more that he did in the NLDS’s.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 17, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Lou is tired and a little disinterested like Leo the Lip was.
Maybe Jimbo didn’t give him good players, but what’s the use of keeping Sori and Miles in the lineup day after day? He’s also made some bizarre moves—especially this year. He should be dealing with Sori and Miles and everyone else….
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made this comparison a few days ago and still believe it to be true.
Lou now = Leo in his latter days in Chicago.
Lou’s given up, or he would not have put up with this BS for this long.
Unless Hendry makes a move, it will requite ownership intervention.
So, we’re screwed, basically…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 18, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
requite=require
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 18, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe "getting" the Cubs and Chicago
is exactly the WRONG thing that was needed, if you know what I mean.
(Don’t get me wrong, I love Joe — he’s from my hometown. But …)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My first example
Although at the time, I’ll not quibble, Piniella looked like a better choice.
2002 was the year of the fired manager – plenty of them available. Baker may have seemed like a decent choice at the time, but Cito Gaston (who had actually, y’know won a couple of World Series) was also looking for work.
Come to think, Gaston was also looking for work in 1999. Hindsight tells us that Mike Scioscia would have been a better choice than Baylor, but at the time Gaston’s record in circumstances nearly as daunting as an expansion team’s was far superior.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cito Gaston would have been a good choice
Not necessarily better than Piniella, but a good one. For those who like fiery managers, however, he wouldn’t have been.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Cito's third through sixth inning nap would be bothersome
Though personally I don’t need a firey manager, I just want a manager to stick with what he’s best at.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 17, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet Lou's third through sixth inning naps
Are starting to be bothersome, as well. Just sayin’.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why on earth was he out of the dugout for so long?
He’s been really good in Toronto in both stints… I just don’t understand why no one else gave him a shot in between.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a mystery to me, too
I don’t think it was his choice to sit out that long. Sometimes there’s more to this stuff than meets the eye, though.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's looking for work right now?
Other than me, that is.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 17, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barking up the wrong tree...
…if winning a championship was as easy as getting one guy (the right manager) the Cubs wouldn’t be abscent a championship for 100+ years.
Winning championships is about getting the right players, not the perfect manager.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 17, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No disagreement here
I was just responding to one of NBF’s points – not prescribing a panacea for the Cubs.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 17, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the line from Miracle said it best
I’m not looking for the best players, Craig, I’m lookin’ for the right ones
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 17, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more years that go by,
the more you wonder if those players have even been born yet. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly
we’ll only know once it’s happened. Till then, everybody’s just guessing.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 17, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of my...
…favorite sports quotes of all time, and also very true.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 17, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pressure?
For Milton it makes sense, Fontenot too. For the rest of them, it doesn’t make sense.
If the most combustible player on the team (Z) is able to pitch as well as he has under this pressure, nobody else has an excuse.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 17, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or
I may just be “on” something. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
EVEN TIGERS SKIPPER.....
Sparky Anderson when tired and the team was having troubles headed home to rest up…Lou looks worn out and from the Comcast interview today a bit confused ….Something has to change with this club ……
by cubs north on Jun 17, 2009 8:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Enjoyed the win...
- Seeing the Sox beat Dempster (who opened his mouth after the ’05 World Championship and the put-downs flowed).
- Seeing Ozzie push all the right buttons. A very good game by the Sox today. Even Ozzie’s response to (yet another) racist shirts sold outside Wrigley was spot-on.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 8:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you enjoy hearing the Hawk? Tell me truthfully...
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jun 17, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do enjoy when Hawk says...
… “AND THIS BALL GAME IS OVAH!”
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawk ...
Cubbie fans hate him because, well because they’re Cubbie fans (and let’s be honest, Cubbie fans are often searching for something to hate in relation to the Sox).
Hawk is much the same as Harry Caray to me, a cartoonish character. And when Harry was a Sox broadcaster, many Cubbie fans I knew hated him. Put Harry down and mocked his pet phrases, “Holy Cow!” etc.
Now, we have The Hawk, you have Santo.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least Santo is ‘funny’ now and then. Hawk just seems like a miserable person, but thats just me. Maybe he’s not a jerk.
by jeff_pico on Jun 17, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop......the both of you.
There is no defending either Hawk or Santo. They are the broadcasting shame of each franchise, and each fan base is forced to accept the worthlessness of both.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Jun 17, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU
They are both clowns for their teams and love the attention their obsessions and derisions bring.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 17, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Santo is an eternal optimist and never says anything bad about anybody. Hawk is a bitter sack who takes any opportunity to rip anything that doesn’t fit into his sad worldview.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 18, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That just means they have different schticks.
It doesn’t make either one of them worth listening to, and until management agrees to change, both ends of town are stuck with these two.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Jun 18, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
from a Cub fan perspective, Hawk would’ve been more bearable if we hadn’t looked like garbage.
Broadcasters are like everything else, really subjective. If you’re on one side of the fence, you probably like/enjoy them.. if you’re not, they’re probably awful sounding.
I like Santo on the radio, but know that a huge part of that is the fact I’m a Cub fan.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how exactly is the cubs looking like garbage Hawk's problem?
that’s what makes him most important.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Jun 17, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not
Its me.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hit post too early
Like I said though, good announcing depends on where you are. If I’m a Sox fan watching that game, I’m probably enjoying the game itself…therefor I’m enjoying Hawk.
I’m not though, so I’m watching a horrible groundhog day game as a Cubs fan, so Hawk just seems boring and contrived to me b/c I don’t care about the Sox in any meaningful way.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago has been known...
…for announcers that take the term “homer” to an all new level and Hawk is one of those guys. The thing that I don’t like about Hawk is he is a major “ass kisser” of the Sox owner, and it gets a little old after a while.
Harry’s best days were with the Cards and White Sox, by the time he got to the Cubs he best days were behind him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 17, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are aware that
Outside of US Cellular there are many homo-phobic shirts being sold by your Sox fans?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 17, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen them lately...
But I’ve only seen one such shirt. And I don’t see anyone wearing them around. I did see this last time I was at Wrigley and the Cubs were not playing the Sox.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
another victim of selective vision
its a shame.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 17, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's selective?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way you see so many horrible racist shirts at Baseballs Greatest Shrine
Yet have only seen “one such shirt” of homo-phobic nature around the Cell. We both know there are many more than 1.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 17, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well covered.
The shirt I saw outside The Cell years ago was, “Wrigley Field World’s Largest Gay Bar.” Do you know of others? That’s the only one I’ve seen. And as I said, the only time I’ve seen anyone wearing one was a Cubs/Sox game.
Wrigley?
- Horry Cow shirts
- Slurs on Cardinals fans (as described here too)
- About the Cell, “World’s Largest Ghetto”
Posters here have argued that the last one is not racist or a smear. Well if that’s true, then I suppose one could argue that the Wrigley bar shirts are not homophobic.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
The Sox Parade/Cubs Parade shirt with two men holding hands
A shirt that says Cubs fans depicting one man performing an act on another
My personal favorite is the middle finger shirt with the WS ring that says “This one’s for you Cubs fans” because even in your greatest moment, you couldn’t help but think of big brother up north.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 17, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Either way, I've still seen my team win a World Championship.
You might be able to find stereocards of the Cubbies last World Championship.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, really
Is that called for?
All NJI is saying is that you all aren’t saints on your side of town either.
C’mon Doc. You’re better than that!
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In kind...
… I only whip out that wonderful trump card when pushed. He got his dig in. Mine was about baseball, not impressions of the fans.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but as bad as the Cubs have played they still have a better record than the Sox
but truthfully I don’t care that or their WS. Now the Cards winning in 06 irrates me
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 17, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interestingingly...
… not long ago Al was glad to talk about the Sox games back from first and people here were dancing on the Sox grave.
Wonder if it will be discussed tonight?
Brewers win tonight, Cubbies slip to 4.5 games back. The Sox are closer at 3.5 back.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jun 17, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4.5 games and 3 teams
between us and first.
Starting to feel a little bleaker, at the mo’. Sigh.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 17, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs