10 Stupidest Trades Ever By Jim Hendry (in my opinion)
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jun 17, 2009 11:21 PM CDT
91 comments
1.Trading Away Mark DeRosa-sure we got some worthy prospects for D-Ro but Mike Fontenot isnt quite ready to be an everyday second baseman, or third baseman. That brings me to my second point: if we would've not traded D-Ro we'd hav a legit third baseman to fill in for Ramirez. And the "salary eat up" that Hendry was doin was supposed to be for Peavy but he's on the DL right now so i dont really care about that, as of the moment.
2.Trading Away Matt murton-if he'd just play he could be a 20-30 homer guy and hit about .280 but no, Hendry goes out and gets Cliff Floyd and Soriano. Im not sayin that soriano sucks but if we wouldnt've got him we could hav Murton hitting homers and hittin in the 6 hole and havin The Riot in the #1 hole and not in the 8 hole.
3.Trading Away (see where im gettin) Rocky Roquet-he didnt just have a cool name but he had a low 90s fastball and had the potential to close or set up Marmol in the future
4.Getting Kevin Gregg-When hendry said that Woody deserved a multi-year deal, did he have the 2 years in cleveland in mind? I know thats more that 1 year but still. Wood was just gettin back into the grooves of things when Hendry just let him go. Then he trades prospect Jose Ceda for injury-prone Gregg. He's blown 2 randy wells victories. How can the kid be 0-3 with a 2.55 ERA? Well whatever, I got off topic there.
5.Trading Away Michael Wuertz-if you wern't gunna keep woody then why didnt you hav wuertz, Marmol, and gregg battle it out for the closers role. Wuertz has been dominant in the minors and has a killer slider for a strike out pitch
6.Trading Away Gregg Maddux-so what that he had only part of a season remaining on his contract! The guy was a fan favorite and aslo a player favorite. Since Hendry traded him he has gone up and up the wins ladder.
7.Getting Juan Pierre-sure they guy can steal but just this year he has learned to hit. Remember Ricky Nolasco? Yeah the now really good pitcher we traded for him? And oh yeah we traded Sergio mitre for him also but now he go caught fo using PEDs
8.Getting Tony Womak-What'd he actually do for the Cubs besides kill his back?
9.Getting Jason Kendall-ok so the guy couldnt hit, couldnt throw out runners and didnt mentor Soto. WHAT WAS HIS USE?
10.Steve Trachsel-he was supposed to provise vereran encouragement, he has a veteran all right. not much in the encouragement department
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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who the heck voted yes?
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jun 17, 2009 11:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Me.
This is yet another childish and stupid post, one among many to hit this site lately. The team regresses to .500 and all of a sudden its “idiot” this, and “stupid” that about Hendry, Lou, the players, etc.
Be serious. Is Hendry a perfect GM? Of course not, and one clearly can make the point that this past offseason was a very poor one. But any post evaluating trades has to give credit for at least the following:
(1) 2003 Pirates deal He straight up fleeced the Pirates, sending Bobby Hill and a bunch of people even less accomplished than Bobby Hill, for A-Ram, Kenny Lofton and Randall Simon. The story at the time was how Lofton would help in the playoff chase and he delivered. But Ramirez is a top 5 third-basemen, and this acquisition solved our hole at that position for years.
(2) 2003 Dodgers deal. Even before the Pirates deal, trading Todd Hundley for Eric Karros and Mark Grudz[spellcheck] was the MLB trade of the year. I’m not a Hundley basher, but to say he wasn’t working out in Chicago is an understatement. In Karros and Grudz, the Cubs got two of the centerpieces of their first NL Central title since 89.
(3) 2004 Marlins deal. Hee Sop Choi for Derrek Lee. Are you kidding me?
(4) 2004 Red Sox deal. A bunch of scrubs (can you name ANY of them? answer below) for Nomar Garciappara and Matt Murton, the guy you complain about Hendry later trading away (more on that below). This deal didn’t work out for all kinds of reasons (Nomar got injured, the team faded when C-Pat stopped hitting in the leadoff role, relievers couldn’t hold leads, etc.), but it was a brilliant and bold stroke at the time and remains so today.
(5) Jose Ceda for a playing-out-his-string Todd Walker.
(6) Rich Harden, who was dominant last July & August, for Murton, a powerless LF (see Dave’s post below) who’s biggest claim to fame is his red hair. But even if this trade is “stupid” as you suggest, then you have to credit Hendry with getting Murton in the first place as a throw-in on the Garciappara deal. Oh, and the bag of spare change Hendry traded for Nomar and Red? Justin Jones(to the Twins), Alex Gonzalez, Brendan Harris and Francis Beltran.
The man’s not perfect, but he’s damn good, particularly when it comes to trades.
by Orval Overall on Jun 17, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 13 recs
On (6) I should add...
… Murton AND OTHERS. Josh 77 at least will correct me if I don’t point out Josh Donaldson still has a chance to be very good. We’ll see. But since we are — er, were — set at catcher for the long run, trading him away for a frontline pitcher was no great sin.
by Orval Overall on Jun 17, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Thank you for posting this.
Recommended.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 17, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't imagine what you were thinking
when you said I didn’t like you. <http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/6/8/902347/grading-the-cubs-at-the-seasons#16703259>
I’m just this way with everybody.
by Orval Overall on Jun 17, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't really see the need in bringing that up again.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 18, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha. We're all good.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 18, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if catching was a concern
We couldve drafted Wieters
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 18, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boras was asking too much
Hendry and the Cubs were smart not to get involved.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mention Brendan Harris.
He’d look pretty good in the Cubs’ infield right now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 18, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harris and Francis Beltran
I believe are the pieces we gave up, and Randall Simon wasnt part of that Hill-Ramirez swap
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 18, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nomar trade was still a good one -
…but I can name one of the players we traded, Brendan Harris, the Twins’ current starting SS. He’s at least a serviceable MLB player, and seems to have established himself as a ~100 OPS+ guy.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 18, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about the Sosa deal?
Moving Sammy and his big contract right before he hit .220 with 14 HRs and managing to steal a Mike Fontenot has got to be considered a stroke of genius.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 18, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
issues
yeah im kinda havin issues with Hendry ever since he traded away D-ro
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jun 18, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good response
to a silly original post
by lookingdeadred on Jun 19, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Murton has 29 home runs in 1051 career PAs.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 17, 2009 11:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's a pretty good hitter though
He was tearing up the minor leagues this year, ZIPS projects him to have a .346 wOBA the rest of the way. He’s also a pretty good defender with a career 9.6 UZR/150 in nearly 2000 innings in left field. It’s actually really weird that he hasn’t been given a shot yet.
St. Louis relievers... defying win expectancy since 2008
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/
by vivaelpujols on Jun 18, 2009 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All his stats have come pre-2008.
He’s done much of nothing in 2008 or 2009. If nobody’s gonna give him an extended shot (which I do think he might benefit from), then I’ve gotta take him for what he’s worth at this point. And if he can’t get an extended start wtih the A’s or Rockies, who the hell is gonna give him that, then?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 18, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A brave defense.
And, wow, I’d never thought to check Murton’s UZR numbers in LF. They surprise me because he doesn’t appear to have decent range nor a strong arm. I guess he just takes good routes?
In any case, Murton did get a pretty lengthy shot in 2006 to the tune of 508 PAs. And, yeah, he does do a great job of getting on base and hits LHP very well. Problem is, I believe most teams want some power out of a left fielder (ahem, Juan Pierre aside), and Matt just never developed any power. IIRC, when the Cubs sent him back down to Triple A in 2007, it took him weeks to get an XBH. He just pores on the singles, which don’t do him much good because he can’t steal bases.
Matt seems like a great guy, and I was a fan of his at first. But I don’t fault Hendry a single iota for giving up on him.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 18, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was always a 280 plus hitter
That’s what I like about him. I just wish Lou would’ve given him a better chance.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 18, 2009 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Matt Murton love mystifies me...
This guy is, at best, a fourth outfielder (below average defensively) who had one slightly above average season and has never done anything else. And he has never, at any stage of his career, shown himself to be a home run hitter.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 17, 2009 11:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Murton sucks!
20-30 HRs, my ass!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Jun 18, 2009 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's back in the minors
for cryin out loud. This Matt Murton love is delusional.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone see the Heckler article featuring Murton as Bozo?
by katie casey on Jun 18, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the link
href=“http://www.theheckler.com/news/templates/default.aspx?a=233&z=32” >
by katie casey on Jun 18, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to make a rebuttal post to this
But no matter what I say will get me in trouble for basically calling this post idiotic and I’m better than that.
Simply put, anyone arguing trading Maddux in 2006 is really needs to move on. God forbid the organization had enough respect for him to trade him to a contender in what might have been his final year in the Majors. Why would any future Hall of Famer want to finish his career on a team that nearly lost 100 games?
by ak123 on Jun 17, 2009 11:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Trading Maddux in 2006 was the rtight move. The team was supposed to be battling for the post season and it was clear Maddux’s tank was pretty much empty. Yes, Maddux was a favorite, but who cares when you are trying to win.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Maddux was the right idea.
It’s what they got in return that I had a problem with.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 18, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting absolutely nothing would have been dramatically preferable.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 18, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that is Hendry's fault...
Hendry respected Doggie enough to ask him whether or not he wanted to be traded, and to where. Doggie told him he’d like to go to a contending NL team on the west coast. How many choices did that leave Hendry? What leverage did he have?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jun 18, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I see your point.
Still, he could have maybe pried a low-level prospect away in addition to Izturis.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 18, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This post
is making my head hurt.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 17, 2009 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Worst Fanpost Ever
Your 3rd worst trade involves giving away a guy who has yet to make the big leagues?
The DeRosa trade may or may not be a bad one; we’ll have to wait a few years to judge that one, since it’s completely dependent on how the prospects we got do.
Matt Murton has done jack shit since being traded away.
Kevin Gregg hasn’t been great, but he’s actually pretty solid lately. And this trade is also completely dependent on how Ceda does, so judging it now is ridiculous.
Trading Maddux was bad? The Cubs were completely out of the race and Mad Dog wanted to pitch for a contender. Are you really criticizing Jim for doing him a well-deserved favor?
Womach didn’t do much, but he wasn’t healthy and we gave up nothing for him. Not a good trade, but not a bad one either. Same for Trachsel.
Kendall did a pretty decent job behind the plate for the Cubs. He wasn’t a great hitter, but he was serviceable, and handled the pitchers a hell of a lot better than Barrett did (who he was essentially traded for if you cut out the middleman). He was a big contributor to the Cubs’ 07 run, which made that a great trade.
Juan Pierre was a terrible trade, I’ll give you that, and the Wuertz deal looks bad in hindsight, but it wasn’t terrible. So that’s 2 bad trades for Hendry, that’s pretty impressive. Hendry has definitely made some questionable free agent moves, but in the trade department, he has been nothing short of amazing.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 17, 2009 11:49 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
+1
Trading has actually been Hendry’s strength-it’s when he got the blank checkbook after MacPhail was launched that he started to really screw up.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 18, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
Except Neifi and Glendon getting 2 year deals. Andy was still around.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 18, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pierre
I still scratch my head when people say that the Pierre trade was a “terrible trade”. First off, you have to give up something to get something and at the time it was made, the Cubs gave up three pitching prospects for a legitimate CF and leadoff hitter, something they sorely lacked. Pierre was a hard worker and a better than servicable player in the year he was a Cub. He came to the park, worked and played hard and did whatever he could to help the club win games. He wasn’t brought over to be a savior and in his brief Cubs career, he wasn’t one.
On the flip side, Sergio Mitre went 6-13 with an ERA over 5.00 in his career with the Marlins…hardly worth missing. Ricky Nolasco had a good 2008 and has been utterly terrible in 2009. He has a career record of 29-27 with Florida with an ERA of 4.58. Someone with some value but hardly someone you have to hold onto. Renyel Pinto has been at times a good bullpen arm in Florida and strikes out guys at a pretty regular rate. He also walks a lot of hitters so I could see how he might fight into this club’s bullpen corps. But again, even if the Cubs need a LH reliever right now, Pinto was hardly a necessary keep.
Add it all up and the Cubs got pretty equal value out of Pierre for the three arms they dealt. Some would argue Florida got the better end of the deal while fewer might argue the Cubs did. Fact of the matter is, it isn’t heavily slanted either and when it was made, it had the potential to help the Cubs more than the Marlins. That deal certainly wasn’t the “terrible” deal it’s made out to be.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 18, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was never a legitimate CF.
He has put up a negative UZR in most seasons in his career. Moreover, he could not throw a ball to any base from his position – Pierre created runs for the other team with his hilariously poor arm. When that was coupled with Jacque Jones’ awful, awful, awful arm in right, there was a serious problem with players taking extra bases.
He was a terrible leadoff hitter, too. He was an out-making machine.
He was, and is, allergic to walks, and his SB% was pretty mediocre. His OPB the year prior was .326, and he basically did the same as a Cub (.330). His OPS was hilariously bad – like Neifi bad. When we traded for him, he was an established ~82 OPS+ player, and a rent-a-player at that.
Yes, he’s a hard worker. I could be a hard worker in MLB, too.
The Cubs don’t pay a guy millions to show up early in the morning and practice his bunts, and then hit 600 ground balls to second base all year long, beat out 150 of them, get caught stealing 20 more times, and be complely incapable of driving a runner in from 2B.
Bottom line – Jim Hendry got tricked by the “bright shiny object” of Pierre’s raw steals totals. He was no different than all the GMs Billy Beane fleeced by trading his “closer” every season in the late 90’s and early 00’s – the other GM saw the saves totals and thought acquiring Billy Koch or someone was a good idea.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 18, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Another instance in which decent statistical analysis could’ve saved Jim Hendry from a mistake.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 18, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He holds the distinction of being the only player to get 200 hits in a season and not hit .300. Think about that
for a minute. 600 PA and 200 hits equal a .333 batting average. How the hell can you get 200 hits and not bat over .300. All you have to do is get a few walks and a few sacrifices and you should easily hit over .300. I am amazed at that stat.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 18, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true
Ralph Garr had 200 hits and hit .299 one year in the mid-70’s (I think it was ’74)
by bluekoolaide on Jun 18, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected. It still boggles the mind that a major league hitter could do that.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 19, 2009 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
No, you couldn’t be a hard worker in MLB because no matter what Joe Lunchbucket believes, “hard work” in MLB isn’t just showing up at the park and trying hard. It’s equivalent to a grave digger trying to work at IBM. No matter how “hard” he tries, he doesn’t have the aptitude to even be considered to be working hard at that particular craft. So end that charade.
Second, enough of the sabermetric nonsense. Pierre obvioulsy had/has flaws but was easily the best CF option they had that year. His arm is well below average but to ascertain he “cost” the Cubs x-number of runs based on slide-rule sabermetrics is laughable. He had reasonably good range in a small Wrigley OF.
He wasn’t paid to drive in runs so that argument is foolish. He was paid to get on base and while his OBP was not stellar, he was exactly what the Cubs could have expected to receive.
But even more than that, to complain about the Pierre trade and what he brought or didn’t bring to the team, you’d have to suggest that the guys given up were of such high quality that their collective values were askew. I don’t think you can do that with marginal guys like Nolasco, Mitre and Pinto. No matter what Nolasco may have done a year ago, his efforts this year have more than trumped his successes when you consider that going into this year he was being counted on as the Marlins ace. He’s mediocre, nothing more….pretty much what Pierre was.
A much more even deal than the prospect-touters give it credit for.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 18, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nolasco was not "being counted on as the Marlins' ace."
Come on. Josh Johnson, Chris Volstad, Ricky Nolasco and Anibal Sanchez were all more or less thought of equally. I’m pretty sure that Johnson was the most highly regarded.
Moreover, I’m certain of two things:
1. Ricky Nolasco has, by himself, given the Marlins more production than Pierre gave the Cubs, while earning the MLB minimum; and
2. Going forward, Ricky Nolasco will give the Marlins more production than Pierre will give the Cubs – while continuing to be cost-controlled.
Pierre was a terrible CF entering his walk year. The idea that Hendry would pay Nolasco for that is mind-boggling. The Mets gave up less for Johan Santana, an actual star who was entering his walk year.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 18, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y'know, I was about to agree with you about Juan Pierre's defense in CF...
…when I checked Fangraphs. He actually put up a rather stellar 14.2/13.5 UZR/UZR 150 in 1,426 innings in 2006. He also has a very impressive 28.2/5.5 UZR/UZR 150 in CF over 10,000+ career innings. His negative career years in CF seem to have come in Florida (bigger park?) and LA (presumably a typical West Coast pitcher’s park). Oh, and he actually put up positive numbers in Florida in 2003.
Having said that, I’m still not a fan of the Pierre trade. Because a leadoff man who puts up a measly .717 OPS with a .330 OPS (.318 wOBA) wasn’t worth a good pitcher like Nolasco.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 18, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
worst fanpost ever?
I have not been here long enough to agree or disagree, but there is a lot in that post that makes me shake my head and wonder.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey stop stealing my lines.
It actually goes,
Worst.
Fanpost.
Ever.
But rec’d anyway.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 18, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The DeRosa trade is already a bad one.
The 2009 Cubs are a $140M team with a closing window of contention. DeRosa was a cheap hitter who played multiple positions, thereby making it possible for the team to carry an extra pitcher or a DH-type hitter on the bench.
The three guys we got from Cleveland are completely irrelevant. Even if all three of them turn into decent bullpen arms for the 2013 Cubs, it’s a bad trade, because it dramatically worsened the 2009 Cubs.
The Cubs arent’ exactly hurting for middle-relief type arms in the organization. Moreover, as a big market team, the Cubs can address their middle relief needs, such as they are, with cash. If those three guys had all turned into bullpen superstars for the Indians, then the Indians probably would have had to let one or more of them walk, and we could have just bought them. Or we could do the same from any number of other small market MLB teams.
What the Cubs don’t have to do is trade their starting second baseman — who also happens to be one of the very, very few hitters on the team who is above-average offensively for his position — for a handful of pitching prospects (TINSTAPP) who have a generally recognized ceiling of “MLB set up guy”.
I agree that Hendry’s trades have, on balance, helped the team. The Lee and Ramirez trades will outweigh pretty much anything that he could do on the negative side of the ledger moving forward.
It’s just that the bad trades were so obviously bad from the outset. The Juan Pierre deal was unforgivable, especially considering that he was entering his FA year.
The DeRosa trade was just stupid, was incredibly counterproductive for the 2009 Cubs, and its “upside” is the possibility that our middle relief corps might be “somewhat cheaper” 4 years from now.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 18, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you're telling me
that if Jeff Stevens develops into a dominant late-inning reliever, Chris Archer becomes a solid middle-of -the-rotaion starter, and John Gaub develops into a good LOOGY, the DeRosa deal was a bad one? It’s not all about this year. If the Cubs have a significantly better chance at contending 3 years from now, it’s worth sacrificing a bit this year, especially when you consider that, on paper, Fontenot/Miles looked good enough to replace DeRosa’s production.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 18, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
short term vs long term
The DeRosa trade was designed to get prospect with which Hendry could get Peavy. The Peavy deal fell through (fortunately for the Cubs as it turns out). The deal looks bad for the Cubs in the short term because they didn’t get the ace pitcher, the injury to ARam, and the general lack of hitting from pretty much everyone else.
In the long term, the deal may end up being better for the Cubs. If the prospects pan out and become key contributors (and there are signs they will), then the deal is a good one. The problem with the the long term POV, is that the Cubs are are contenders now, the short term is the priority, and that makes the DeRosa trade look bad. At the time I thought the deal was a good one as I thought it would bring them Peavy. In hindsight, knowing what we know now, the deal, in the short term, doesn’t look too good.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 19, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have never been a huge...
…Hendry fan, but trades have not been my issue with him.
His long track record of poor position player development along with a general failure to select the right players for the roster, has forced him to overpay and seek too many answers in FA.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 18, 2009 12:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think you hit...
it dead one. Agree completely.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 18, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
and further his insistence on paying retail for replacement level aging players just irks me (Aaron Miles is just this year’s version of Neifi, Womack, etc). Every farm system has someone who can come in, play competent defense, and hit poorly. Why pay $2 mil a season for that? Those things add up.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 18, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am now dumber for having read this
You have the Juan Pierre trade ranked 7th for some reason, really? One season for Juan Pierre for 3 good young pitching prospects, and yet have Matt Murton, Rocky Roquet, Greg Maddux when he was done, and Michael Wuertz despite him being beyond horrible when he was a Cub, give up posting your ideas, Please!
Lets Go Hawks!
by CubsBall2202 on Jun 18, 2009 1:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't even know what to say about this.
I just wish it would stop.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 18, 2009 7:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Murton???
Seriously, we’re back to Matt Murton???
God help us if Felix Pie ever turns into anything but a shorter Corey Patterson.
Now, if you want to criticize Hendry for the no-trade clause, that’s fair game. There are way too many guys with them.
Let’s face it, campers. Even if this team somehow rights itself, we are heading for a major walk through the Valley of Tears. Hopefully it won’t last more than a year or two, but there is a bottom out in our future.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 18, 2009 8:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
I knew DeRosa would be #1 but when you pine for Rocky Roquet, I have to wonder if you’ve had way too many. Roquet, if you would actually check, has a WHIP of over 2.00 in AA for the A’s. Now why should the Cubs keep him?
Tony Womack was a FA signing so he doesn’t count either.
Injury-prone Gregg for Ceda? Who is on the DL right now? One hint, it isn’t Gregg.
by rlpete on Jun 18, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Just a heads up, Jose Ceda is not the next Lee Smith. Nor is he the next Dave Smith…the pretty good one before he graced the Cubs with his presence. More likely, he’s the next Francis Beltran.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 18, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I admire the OP's passion and all that.....
…sometimes I really think there needs to be an age limit and/or a sobriety level standard achieved before someone makes a post.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
by BeerCub on Jun 18, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Like a
BCB breathalizer?
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Jun 18, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no breathalizer for ignorance
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 18, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit!
Then these kind of posts are never going to end.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
by StevenABQ on Jun 18, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe once the White Sox are out of town it'll slow.
Seriously, 9 new fanposts in the last 14 hours?
Before creating a FanPost do the following:
1. Step away from the computer.
2. Breathe.
3. Take another step back from the computer.
4. Breathe.
Allowing for the flow of oxygen to the brain does wonders for creating FanPosts.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jun 18, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it would be a good thing if there was a 24 hour waiting period
before a post appeared on the board. It would allow a poster to retract a bad post like the one that started this thread.
As for an an age limit, I have little doubt some of the younger posters post equally idiotic things.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ceda for Gregg
Too bad Ceda has fallen off the Earth with a serious arm/shoulder/mental problem. The Marlins SBN site has a fanpost dedicated to trying to figure out where the guy even is. Meanwhile, Gregg has done quite nicely, which you would have noticed if you had read the fanpost on the subject (It’s only the 2nd highest story on the site).
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 18, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Murton, are you joking???
He’s back in the minors. He couldn’t win a starting job with the Cubs, the A’s (who are desperate for hitting) and even the Rockies, who just sent him down to AAA. C’mon people, if Matt Murton was such a good prospect he would have won a starting job somewhere by now. Saying he would be a 20-30 HR .280 BA guy is simply wishful thinking.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2009 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, Murton
No way he’s a 30 HR guy, Rocky Roquet ??? Are you serious, Guzman is proving to be an apt 8th inning guy, we had absolutley no need for Rocky Roquet or even Rocky Cherry
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 18, 2009 8:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about
Don Cherry or Neneh Cherry? Or even cherries jubilee?
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 18, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neneh Cherry! You reached down pretty deep for that one.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 18, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a gigolo, maaaaaan...
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 18, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just hanging
…in that buffalo stance.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 18, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a big fan of Hendry
I can honestly say he had a horrific offseason. With that being said, the hate has got to stop. The deals he pulled off in 03, trading for Lee, etc… outweigh the bad he’s done. Therefore, yes he is a good GM.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 18, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And, he still has time to rectify last offseason's mistakes.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 18, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That window is closing rather rapidly.
And at this point, I don’t know exactly how he’s going to do it.
Sadly, I have a feeling that Mark DeRosa is going to wind up in the NL Central again in 2009, wearing the birds on the bat… or taking Ricky Weeks’ place….
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 18, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This list
reads like it was written by someone who has been a Cubs fan for 2 years. No mention of the Alfonseca deal that sent Dontrelle to Florida? —note, I don’t think that was a horrible deal, since Clement came in and helped get us to the post-season in 03, and Willis has since imploded, but it probably should be on the list.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 18, 2009 9:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Problem is
That was an Ed Lynch special, about a month before Hendry took over. Now Lynch’s “bad trade” list might make a reasonable post. (Jon Garland for Matt Karchner ring any bells?).
by Orval Overall on Jun 18, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was another "bright shiny object" trade.
Some GMs see a bunch of saves on the back of a guy’s baseball card, and they get distracted and assume that the guy is a great closer.
Lynch thought we needed an “established MLB closer”, and the Marlins were all too happy to trade their awful relief pitcher who happened to be the guy pitching the 9th for them for a few seasons.
That’s exactly how Billy Koch and Jorge Julio and Pulpo Alfonseca managed to get traded for too much value over the years.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 18, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My advice to you nutdrinkingamp12?
Lay off the Amp. And I’m a little curious as to why you didn’t implore us to “MAKE SURE YOU HIT THE ‘REC BUTTON’” like you did in your other Fanpost. Maybe subconsciously you’re aware of how ridiculous most of your assertions are.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 18, 2009 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A bigger question though...
is why does Hendry get such crappy minor league filler when he trades someone? think about some of them- crap for Michael Wuertz, crap for DeRosa, crap for Farnsworth, crap for Patterson, crap for Pie…the list goes on and on. Sure, he’s gotten decent MLB talent with many of his trades, but I laugh when I think of some of these “prospects” he gets in return when we trade major leaguers.
This is hendry’s biggest shortfall: always buys high and sells low. all of those guys I listed above would’ve fetched a lot more had he dumped them sooner.
by reedjohnson on Jun 18, 2009 10:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right but...
…the problem is that it’s something of a crapshhot. When Pie’s value was highest (before he’d come up and his holes were exposed), the Cubs were terrible and there was no reason to trade a guy who most of us thought was the centerfielder of the future.
People complain that Hendry holds on to guys for too long (and I’ve been known to complain about it myself)…but then there are times when he did sell high (ex. Nolasco, Mitre, etc. for an established guy like Juan Pierre) and those trades blew up in his face.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 18, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More irrational Hendry hate
Crap for Wuertz and Farnsworth? What did you expect for them? Crap for DeRosa? Have you looked at the 3 pitchers numbers this year?
Also don’t forget:
- Fontenot for Sosa
- Ceda for Walker who then got us this year’s closer while Ceda now has serious physical problems.
Yes, Hendry has flaws. Yes, Hendry screwed up this past offseason but the revisionist history that everything he did was wrong is ridiculous.
by rlpete on Jun 18, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murton and Maddux
Said above but since I am a well known fan of both. Murton does not have much power, I think he would be a great bench player for the Cubs or any team but he keeps getting stuck on teams with a surplus of outfielders. He hits for contact and would be a nice guy to have BUT LOU WAS NEVER GOING TO PLAY him and I strongly suspect Hendry thew him in to the trade so he might get a shot somewhere else. Maddux was not traded, he was set free, which is exactly what the Padres had to do last year. When your team sucks and Maddux has a chance to contribute to a contending team, you let him go.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 18, 2009 5:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Historically, Hendry is good...
… he just had a bad off-season this last time around. Overall, he has been really good.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 18, 2009 8:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
the payroll increases Hendry has been granted have masked a lot of his shortcomings as a GM. The fact that he can’t put together a productive minor league system or that he overpays for marginally talented guys isn’t quite as obvious when he can buy his way out of some of those problems.
Hendry isn’t terrible, but he isn’t a great GM either. If I had to rank all the GMs in baseball (well, I’d have to look up a lot of them), I’d guess Hendry would be ranked somewhere around 20th.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 18, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jim
hendry has done a good job as 3 of his teams made the postseason.this past winter was probably his worst with the cubs. the owner siuation has really tied jim,s hands. no money means you get guys like miles and gathright..
by NOMAR on Jun 19, 2009 10:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
$136 M is tied hands???
$5 M over two years got Miles. That’s on Hendry, not ownership.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Hendrys
Complete lack of a farm system is his biggest failure. Then I hope I’m wrong but Soriano might be his next worst move. Finally he was given a blank checkbook to get us to the world series and has failed. On the upside he has been a genius in the trade department, has brought us to the playoffs two consecutive years which no other gl has ever been able to do. He has also had a full stadium since his tenure began
by Notsnud on Jun 25, 2009 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree...
…and when you have to rely HEAVILY on FA and trades, it means you are building a house of cards.
Those cards will eventually fall, it’s just a matter of when.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 25, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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