Sweeping Cleveland Could Be the Ticket for DeRo to Return to the Cubs
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 10:40 AM CDT
279 comments
If the Cubs sweep the Indians this weekend, it could push Cleveland further out of contention in the AL Central. If that happens, Mark DeRosa could be one of the first players dealt when Cleveland starts a summer player purge. Obviously for those (like myself) who want to see the Cubs reacquire DeRo, a Cubs sweep of the Indians is the best case scenario.
But what happens if this doesn't occur? Does winning 2 of 3 matter? Losing 2 of 3? Or what will happen if it's the Indians who do the sweeping?
Thoughts BCBers?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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It's funny
Because when we started the season I figured we’d have won maybe 10 more games by now.
I felt this series would be one where we’d win 2 out of 3. The one game we lose would feature Kerry Wood closing and getting a final bow for the season at Wrigley.
Now, we have to sweep. I don’t care Kerry blows 3 saves to us…a win for the Cubs is more important.
by ak123 on Jun 19, 2009 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think this series...
really has anything to do with if DeRosa gets traded. I think he’s as good as gone. Yes, the Indians are only 7 games out of 1st. But they’re 10 games under .500. They’re just not a good baseball team.
Should’ve never traded him in the first place.
by kanderber on Jun 19, 2009 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So do the Cubs reacquire him then?
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The weird part is...
… if the Cubs sweep the series and score a ton of runs, management might not think we need another bat.
The best scenario for a DeRosa return would be winning all three games 1-0.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
looks like
2 would have to be in a twinbill
by tim815 on Jun 19, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the 22nd inning all three games since the offense can't score, right?
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and win each of them by...
a wild pitch, an error (not DeRo’s) and a walk-off walk.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jun 19, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best scenario for a Derosa return
very likely involves hell freezing over.
by Wreckard on Jun 19, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be so sure about that, Mr. Know-it-all.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop with the namecalling right now
by Wreckard on Jun 19, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Mr. Know-it-all?
Wait, so Wreckard is Deep Goat?
"Nice to hear some cheers for once," Bradley said. "I didn't come here to suck. I know I've sucked so far, but give me some love, you know what I'm saying? I am a Cub."
by Bildo1805 on Jun 19, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who even wants DeRosa?!?!
I’m just sick of seeing his name on this site.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've been here 2 weeks...
Relax.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 19, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been a reader of BCB for about 3 years.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ARob1
no is forcing you to read about this.
Personally I am sick of hearing about Farve so I don’t read anything about it.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait
what about my BFF Brett? Did he get a hair cut? Guyliner? SWOOOON…
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 things.
1, it’s spelled Favre, not Farve. I can tell you aren’t much of a Packer fan.
2, Comparing Brett Favre and his impact on the Packers to Mark DeRosa and his impact on the Cubs is one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever read, but perfectly symbolizes the way you BCBers deify DeRosa.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am a Packer fan
same point… If I don’t like the top being discuss (such as someone coming out of retirement) I avoid it. B/c I figure if others want to discuss it, it’s there choice. I don’t tell them to stop just b/c I don’t want to hear it.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bravo
this is, after all, America, not communist China.
by burncruisin on Jun 21, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like you.
You think rationally.
"Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
by Keith on Jun 19, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
A) I guess I’m not as perfect as you b/c I do make a spelling error from time to time especially when I have multiple tabs open on my computer.
B) If you dislike us so much why are you here?
NBF is a regular, so granted I think he’s over the top on this….. he often has valid points. So I’m not going to personally rip on him. B/c over the course of the last few years he has backed me up (and vice versa) on things.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll continue to do that for you, MCF,
when I think you’re right, which is most of the time.
We can agree to disagree on this one, however.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I thank you
for your support, too. Always have a soft spot for Madison, and for Cubs fans, of course.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I was told this was a great Cubs blog, so I decided to join.
And where did I say I dislike any of you? I just don’t get the over the top DeRosa love.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By and large
this is a great Cubs blog. The best one out there.
But this is a bit of a sore subject.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a guy
who was a good player last year, and is being a good player this year and could fill a real void.
That’s all.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell's near Ann Arbor and it actually HAS frozen over during many Michigan winters...
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually know someone
who grew up in Hell. Contrary to what one might think of Hell natives, she’s an extremely sweet person. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now people from Ann Arbor on the other hand...
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, hey watch it now. I lived in Ann Arbor for 8 years and I have a brother that
still lives there. I’ll agree not to say disparaging thing about East Lansing if you agree not to about Ann Arbor.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 19, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. A2 DOES have Zingerman's after all...
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 20, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
when we see a higher number here the Cubs may think about making big moves.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 19, 2009 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's amazing how quickly those fluxuate...
Two days ago when I checked that page, the Cubs were listed with a mid 30’s% change of making the post-season, second only behind the Brewers in the division…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 19, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG
Get over this. He isn’t coming back to Chicago.
And, I’ll tell you another thing. Cleveland is not getting out of this race. They have 4 players (Sizemore, Cabrera, Laffey, and Westbrook) that will be coming off the DL to help the team and there is no one in the AL Central that will put the thing out of contention. Cleveland WILL BE in the race. I think they have a serious shot at winnign that division.
I know that Cleveland has floated the idea of DeRosa out there, but I’m sure that’s just to find out if anyone is willing to pay top dollar. If the Cubs are willing to part with Vitters for him, them he’s probalby ours. Short of that, I don’t see it
by jerry morales rules on Jun 19, 2009 10:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Indians need pitching to get back in the race.
Their rotation is suspect and their bullpen is horrendous.
That might make a match with the Cubs. We’ll see.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Pedro...
Trade Harden for DeRosa and others. Or keep Harden and trade Wells/Marshall and others for DeRosa.
by kanderber on Jun 19, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden & Wells, OK. Marshall no.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?!?
So you value Rich Harden less than Sean Marshall?
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Long term? Yes.
And he hit’s lefty so, you know, he’s got THAT working for him.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Marshall will never be anything close to Rich Harden.
He’s an above average left handed pitcher, with not much upside. The best he’ll be is a 4th starter for us. Rich Harden can be downright dominating, and when he’s on has the best stuff in the rotation.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying Sean is Rich of will ever BE Rich.
I just don’t see Harden being with the Cubs after this year and longer term, Marshall will have greater value to the team when you look at it 5 years from now (if he’s still here and Harden isn’t).
Harden has better pure “stuff” for sure. When he’s healthy.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're absolutely right
But the Cubs most likely won’t be resigning him next year. So to trade him now and get something for him would be smart
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jun 19, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden's better than Marhall, but...
3 years of Marshall at less-than-open-market-value is better than a half season of Harden.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 20, 2009 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we could pick up a little more than just DeRo for Harden
Maybe bring back somebody like Mike Gosling
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect the Cubs would also have to kick in some money.
Harden makes more than DeRosa.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I think we could...
Pick up a LOT more than just DeRo. Harden for DeRo straight up would be awful, IMO. I said Harden for DeRo and others.
by kanderber on Jun 19, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might have to give the Indians Stevens back.
I’d do that, if we could get a low-level prospect or two in return.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't we get Patton from them in the Rule 5?
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Patton is from the Rockies.
We could throw him in, but Cleveland would have to keep him on their 25-man roster all year or return him to Colorado.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he came from Cleveland for some odd reason... hmm...
I hope something like this wouldn’t come down to money… as much as I’ve been ignoring the whole no owner situation, I’m afraid that might end up hurting the team as we get closer to the trade deadline… aggressive moves that are available might not be made because they don’t have a new owner ready to come in yet and no finances lined up.
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gosling will be in Chicago this weekend
He just was recalled. At least the Cubs would get to see him live if they wanted him thrown into a deal.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jun 19, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Gosling would be a great left-handed mid-long relief guy
It would also give us the flexibility to move Marshall if needed to get another bat (maybe DeRo, maybe not…) as it doesn’t look like Sean will be starting anytime soon (which kinda pisses me off, but whatever, Lou’s team, not mine… except on MLB 2009 where Smarsh went like 17-2 for “my” Cubs team this year… haha
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then you have the same
problem with the rotation. Who is the long man in the pen?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And this is why I rarely...
Suggest trades. I’m not good at them. But maybe Cleveland has a guy they’d send back who could fill that role?
by kanderber on Jun 19, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let them sign Pedro
No thanks
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jun 19, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why
and I know it’s going to come down to some ‘intangible’ bs argument but I’ll ask anyway. If the Cubs aren’t far out of first place with a slumping offense and an injured perennial All-Star, why would said team then need to give up a very talented (if healthy) pitcher (Harden)?
Mark DeRosa is gone, I’m sorry he won’t return phone calls and he stopped sending sweet little letters, but he has different fans now.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU
And hey…HE"S A FREE AGENT. So we can resign him in the offseason
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jun 19, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Westbook and Laffey
are throwing rehab starts in the minors now. They have help coming within thier system as it is.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 19, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With our track record...
do you REALLY want to bring over pitchers who are injured? That just seems like a bad omen…
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I'm not saying that we bring them here
I’m saying that Cleveland is going to get pitching help form within their organization as it is and becuse of that they will be in the race. Cleveland will need DeRosa for themselves. They need bats as much as the Cubs do. Especially now that Sizemore and Cabrera are on the DL. Cleveland isn’t a seller here.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 19, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If DeRo did come back
Does that mean we can get rid of Aaron Miles since he wears Mark’s #7? If so, that would be great in so many ways…
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That'd be a dream scenario.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about we just throw him in
to the next deal that gets done. Whoever the deal is for, Miles is the player to be named right now surprise bonus.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 19, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Miles straight up for Dickie Knowles?
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs traded him to the Tigers for a player to be named.
After the season was over, HE was the player to be named. He came back to the Cubs.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd trade Miles for a case of Old Style
I can’t stand Old Style
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jun 19, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say we win 2 of 3.
Hendry could do A LOT to restore his reputation by admitting he was wrong and trading for DeRosa. Unfortunately I just don’t see that happening.
With that being said, can we all agree that Hendry DID make the correct decision on not resigning Kerry Wood. He just isn’t worth $10 mil a year (although I guess you can argue he may have taken a hometown discount).
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 19, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Much as I like Kerry Wood...
… yes, that would have been too much money, and Gregg has done a decent job.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I texted my buddy that if Gregg could get us through the 9th, I'd get off his back.
I’m officially down with Kevin Gregg.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 19, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wood has said several times he would have signed for the minimum to stay
I would much rather have Wood and Ceda in our system. Gregg has been horrendus. We’d have 3-4 more wins without him
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jun 19, 2009 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
I have yet to read/hear that anywhere. No way would he have signed for the MLB minimum after 11 years in the league.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 20, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that appears to have been something
he said AFTER negotiations were over.
What 3-4 wins do you think we’d have? He gave up the game yesterday; he’s not pitched all that well for the Indians.
Gregg has done a decent job.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 20, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is as good a place
for any as this.
the cubs didn’t get a draft pick for wood because they didn’t offer arbitration. can a team offer arbitration and encourage the player to seel other larger offers? it would be nice in an instance like that to get something out of his departure.
by tim815 on Jun 19, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Hendry's reputation needs "restoring" per se.
We all make decisions that sometimes we’d have done differently in hindsight. And his track record over the long haul tips on the plus side much more than the minus side. But I will say that I did disagree with the decision to let him go last winter and hoped that it wouldn’t come back to bite us. Unfortunately it did.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don't take my statement wrongly.
Al and I were discussing the other day that overall he is a good GM. But he had a bad off-season and a lot of fans aren’t forgiving him for the DeRosa deal.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 19, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure it seemed like the right one at the time.
But people need to give Hendry the benefit of the doubt. He’s certainly earned it.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
Hendry does not need to restore a damn thing.
Jim Hendry is the General Manager of the Chicago Cubs, his job illicits little to no interest in morality tales, especially for a player who only played for the team for 2 years.
Now, would the Cubs be better off this year with DeRosa? To this point, probably. Anything is better than Aaron Miles. However seeing as how the division in itself is a joke, they’re none the worse for the wear. Slumps end and Aramis Ramirez will return
If you talked to a Cub fan about Mark DeRosa I swear it would seem as though he played for the team for 8 years.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The length of time isn't the issue...
… the production while he was here is.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it wasn't
but if the Cubs weren’t slumping as they are this conversation would’nt be even taking place.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or if Ramirez hadn't been hurt.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2009 11:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If he comes back
It will ONLY happen if the Cubs sign him as an FA after the end of the season. Many teams are interested and nearly all of them can offer more than the Cubs.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 19, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they get their players...
Back from the DL, and feel that they’re still in it, they’re going to need pitching to contend. What other team has the luxury to offer a top-tier pitcher like Harden for an expendable piece like DeRosa?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 19, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One game at a time please
Just win today boys! All I want to see is the white flag flying when I go by the ballpark around 6pm this evening.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jun 19, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why can't any of you just get over your manlove of Mark DeRosa?
He was an above average hitter, certainly not a great one.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's as much about his versatility as it is his hitting
If we still had him he’d be playing third right now which would be a huge upgrade over Fontenot.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 19, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, but the move was made, and its done with now.
The Cubs got three good prospects in return, its not like they gave DeRosa up and got nothing in return, which seems to be a popular sentiment around here.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far, I have seen no major league return for that deal.
And the major league team could use DeRosa right now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that the move wasn't about a major league return.
It was about getting good prospects, which everyone on this site always complains about, and also clearing up some salary. Hendry made a gamble that DeRosa was past his peak, and may have been a bit off. That doesn’t mean we need to run out and grab DeRosa back, he’s not that much of an impact player. He also wasn’t a very good 3B, if you don’t recall.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that.
But in hindsight, it was a serious miscalculation.
And he can play 3B better than Mike Fontenot or Jake Fox.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miscalculation of what exactly?
Did you know going into 2009 that Aramis Ramirez would miss this amount of playing time?
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it safe to assume he'd miss some time?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, since he's missed some every year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
From the start of May through the All-Star Break? If you saw that coming you’re in the field.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*in the wrong field
sorry
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Safe to assume he'd miss 15-20 games
Which would be no problem with the current setup.
Missing 60 games is a different story, and unexpected.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Was Hendry supposed to know that Aramis would miss THIS much time? If not, I hardly see how the move can be characterized as a miscalculation. And Al, when one of Jeff Stevens, John Gaub, or Chris Archer come up to the bigs and start dominating hitters, I hope you don’t try to back off your current claims.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Win now.
None of those guys can help the Cubs win now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly what getting
Bradley and Miles and Gregg were designed to do. Help the Cubs win now.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How's that working out?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you want to argue with fallacies, then I got one for you.
With Miles, Bradley, and Gregg, the Cubs are .500, 4 games out.
With DeRosa, the Indians are 10 games under, and 7 games out, in a weaker division.
So I think the real question is, how’s that working out for them?
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRo is one player on a team that needs pitching
They aren’t working out b/c of their lack of pitching which although DeRo can play many positions that one he can’t.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously you're correct.
I made that argument because Al, knowing that Jim Hendry couldn’t possibly have known that Bradley wouldn’t hit well, decided to say “How’s that working out”, when it really had nothing to do with the argument.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you know what out a doubt
that DeRo won’t be helping the Cubs.
I personally think he would be, with or w/o ARam getting hurt. I think Henry was too obsessed w/ LH batters to look @ the big picture.
I would have preferred him to think about what if something happens to someone besides a second baseman. He did that w/ 1st base, had Micah in the wings. Koy Hill decent back up to Soto. But back up on 3rd base was a whole. That is something DeRo could have filled, plus outfield.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hole**
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If JH is obsessed with LH hitting
so is every GM in baseball.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"look at the big picture"
To imply as such is arrogant. I’ll repeat myself since it bears repeating.
Jim Hendry is the GM of the Chicago Cubs. His job is remain OBJECTIVE in how he runs his team. Having replaced now a hitter who he beleived (and many others as well) has hit his peak he promtply replaced him with Milton Bradley (consistently a high OBP guy). That’s the big picture, what happens after that is a matter of chance, that which has not been nice to the Cubs this year.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh so the big picture in your opinion
doesn’t deal with the fact that there are no quality back ups @ an important position like 3rd base?
I wasn’t being arrogent, I was pointing out that maybe he was focused on the wrong thing.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
saying JIm Hendry
the GM of the CHicago CUbs is focusedo n the wrong this is arrogant because it implies you know better than him what to focus on.
If the team as a whole is hitting as it should be, the use of a ‘quality back up player’ is useless.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, I was not in favor of the Bradley signing, either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me either
But remember Al the reason we got swept was lack of LF’s. Nothing to do with some of the other flaws the team had LOL
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What were those flaws?
You figure a team with 97 wins wouldn’t have many.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I did
But when I watched those games, much to my sadness I saw more than just lack of LF hitters. The 97 win team that bought me so much joy during the regular season… didn’t play like it during those games. It was painful to watch. So to say that LF hitters would have put them over the top, I don’t think so. They got beat in a variety of aspects of the game. :(
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think Bradley will be a good signing
before all is said and done. He’s already hitting much better.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes Al
anyone who went anywhere remotely close to BCB knows you weren’t a big fan of Milton Bradley becoming a Cub.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can forsee slumps too?
Injuries and slumps. Seriously, starting faxing your resume.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No but a good GM
Realizes that there are a million varibles that happen over 162 game season. So although we can’t forsee each thing…..
He tries to cover his bases so when these things occur the team doesn’t suffer as much as it might.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did
Aaron MIles was never supposed to play everday, Joey Gathright was never meant to play everday. But if you think for a moment he can see his All-Star third baseman go down THIS LONG you’re fooling yourself.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that is why there are back ups
So when unforseen things happen.
Soto getting hurt in April we couldn’t have guessed, nor his struggling. But Hill was there to play, so we didn’t notice it as much.
A team that is play off bound, normally has back ups that can step in. Also opposed to Fonty who has very little experience @ 3rd base
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You answered your own question
Because in April we weren’t looking at such a horrific offense, so despite the fact Hill is nowhere as talented as Soto, we did not notice because, simply, there was nothing to notice.
You don’t run your back up players out everyday, there’s a reason their ‘back-ups’.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the back up to ARam
I sincerely wish would have been looked at better, b/c Miles by no stetch of the imagation could be thought of as even a good back up in my opinion even when I looked at his stats after he was signed. I’d be ok w/ lack of DeRo if they had gotton someone who could back up many positions. There just arent a lot of those players out… and one of them we traded.
I be no means want to start a DeRo fan club… but since Henry didn’t make a good move in the off season I want help now. We already know he is a good player.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Compare last year's bench to this year's bench.
Last year, Mike Fontenot was the replacement when guys went down.
This year, he’s the starter, and Aaron Miles is the replacement.
The problem isn’t that players like Miles and Gathright were forced into bigger roles than expected. The problem is that players like Miles and Gathright are/were placed on the 25-man roster in the first place.
This offseason was an absolutely astonishing waste of resources, both in money and in potentially useful (and cheap)players.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1 rec
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're falling on cliche
You know just as well as anyone how erratic the standings can be. The Cubs are no more than 5 games out, a huge margin for error for any first place team.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the miscalculation
is in not having good depth, not the specific player who provides that depth.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to be clear, we got some nice prospects.
But it isn’t like Cleveland sold the farm for DeRosa. Neither Archer, nor Stevens, nor Gaub one of Cleveland’s BA top 10 guys, and the generally agreed-upon upside for these pitchers is MLB middle relief, with one of them potentially becoming an 8th inning guy.
I don’t see how it’s ever worth trading a key MLB contributor for mid-range pitching prospects who might some day help you save $6M worth of relief pitching you could have bought on the open market. That goes double for a team with WS aspirations and a closing window of opportunity as the current core ages before our eyes.
If we were going to “sell high” on Mark DeRosa, I would have liked to have received at least one of CLE’s top-end prospects.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The major league team
could also be hitting better at the same time WITHOUT Mark DeRosa.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Versatility +1
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to do with manlove
Derosa has 48 rbi’s this year. Scales, Miles, Blanco, Freel and Fontentot have 41 rbi’s in total. Some of those rbi’s might have been useful in all the one run, extra inning and shutout losses this year.
by hoppy91 on Jun 19, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You honestly believe that he would have 48 rbis on this team?
Newsflash: RBI’s are created by the guys in front of you. Unless DeRosa has 48 solo HR’s, I’m not buying that.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the cubs never leave men on base?
So he would never have been at the plate with runners on? he might not have the same amount of rbi’s but it would still be more than the five guys i mentioned.
by hoppy91 on Jun 19, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well obviously he
would have more than any of those guys. You just named 4 scrubs who can’t hit, and then some guy named Fontentot, who I’m not sure exists.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why wouldnt have Dero
been better than those four scrubs? Fontenot would have been better too had he stayed at this natural position.
by hoppy91 on Jun 19, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously he would be.
I never said I didn’t like DeRosa because he was worse than Andres Blanco, for Christ Sakes.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you are wonderng who exactly wants DeRo
I believe hoppy is saying why he does want them. He is just answering your question.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he wants DeRosa because
He’ll outperform Bobby Scales and Andres Blanco? Ok then…
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think DeRo would outperform either of them
Especially since Blanco can’t play 3rd
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was being sarcastic.
I would hope he could outperform both of them by lightyears!
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he'd want DeRosa because
He’s outperforming Dustin Pedroia, Brandon Phillips and Brian Roberts.
Last year, 2B was a place where the Cubs enjoyed an obvious competitive advantage. In fact, we got enough power from 2B that they were able to pick up the slack when Fukudome decided to take three months off. Or when Soriano would go ice-cold.
This year, 2B is a freaking joke. And it was because of the self-inflicted wound incurred when Hendry traded DeRosa for a bunch of relief pitcher prospects.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if this game gets rained out.....
…..and they play it again in September and DERO is ON our TEAM?
LET RONNY IN!!!
by Harry Seaward on Jun 19, 2009 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In reference to the Harden-DeRosa swap above
If Cleveland fell out of contention why would they a) take on salary b) take on a player already in his prime when the smart thing would be to acquire young, cheap talent like they did with LaPorta last year
If they trade for DeRosa, quite frankly, I’ll be pissed b/c they never shouldve done so in the beginning, so now theyd be giving up what little prospects we have for a guy we had 6 months ago
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 19, 2009 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Although if you're upset about our lack of prospects,
remember that the DeRosa trade netted us 3 good ones.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats what Im saying
To give up something else, which we cant really spare, for a guy we had last year is asinine…the guys we got the first time notwithstanding. I just think this would make Hendry look like a fool
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 19, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right
If only this much outrage had resulted from Maddux leaving, maybe it wouldn’t have taken 11 years for the Cubs to get him back.
I’m going to try to stay far away from this place once the game begins. The DeRogasms will be a bit too intense for me.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to do this, but
Often times, when someone rails against something to the point that it becomes irrational, it’s to mask their agreement.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only irrational thing about this
is how much the DeRomaniacs go on and on about it. It’s totally out of proportion, and it has been all season.
Sorry if you can’t see that, but apparently I’m not the only one who thinks so.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing about the world being wrong
Usually, it isn’t.
I don’t dispute that some of it has been over the top, but you’ve lost all objectivity on this topic. . . it’s become Blue Mike-like, and not up to your usual snuff.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the world normally is wrong. Most of the people in this world aren't too bright.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot of stupid people
But not everyone that disagrees with you automatically qualifies
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ARob1
Have you and Blou met yet? :)
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa trade
I don’t think the outcome of this weekend’s series is going to have any influence.
DeRosa could be traded to the team that gives the Indians what they want and that team would be a contender. The Cubs will have a better chance if they a) still see themselves as a contender over the next few weeks, b) try to make a deal, and c) be willing to give the Indians one or more good prospects.
The Tribe is in last place in their division 7 games out. No reason, at this point, to think they will make a run at a division title.
by AboutTheCubs on Jun 19, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't It Be Something
If DeRo got traded back to the Cubs during the series. Imagine the announcement after the end of game one or two that the Cubs reacquired DeRosa. The place would go nuts. I believe Doug Mientkeiwicz (sp?) got traded once in the middle of series between Boston and Minnesota.
by jmart231 on Jun 19, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mientkiewicz was indeed traded in the middle of a Boston/Minnesota series.
It was part of the Nomar deal in 2004. He just switched clubhouses.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 19, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in the next game, Doug M got a single....
….and standing at first base, Justin Morneau told him “now if you’d done that yesterday, maybe you’d still have this job.”
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I HOPE that was said in fun...
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 20, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*I THINK* There have been instances of players being traded between games of a doubleheader
then playing for the OTHER team in the nightcap…
Gonna do some research on this…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joel Youngblood?
Didn’t that happen to him?
Oh, and maybe if that trade happens, DeRo could cure cancer and solve the Iran crisis between games, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steady, "not bruce"...
I was just considering the act of a prior MBL trade of players between two teams during a doubleheader, not that DeRo would be involved this weekend…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steady, "not bruce"...
I was just considering the act of a prior MBL trade of players between two teams during a doubleheader, not that DeRo would be involved this weekend…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure why this posted twice...
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As was I
I probably should have placed that part under separate cover. I apologize for the confusion.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Cure cancer……
You seem about as anti DeRo as Worf is anti-Z.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I may
speak on NBF’s behalf.
It’s very easy to point out an Anti-DeRosa sentiment. WHich is the farthest thing from the truth. I myself would’ve liked to seen DeRosa stay with the Cubs, but like me NBF is sick fo the:
“OMG DEROSA TRADED! STOOPID CUBS, STOOPID JIM HENDRY! L;KJSFDAJ;LKFDASJL;K”
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
Speak on my behalf anytime you wish.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am sick of Brett Farve news... but I live in Wisconsin
So I avoid it, I can’t stop people from talking about. I don’t repeatly tell people to stop talking about if they want to talk about it, I just remove myself from the conversation. B/c obviously for some reason people find that interesting.
I persnally do wish DeRo was traded back, so if I want to post about it, it is a Cubs board so I will.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So wait a minute
You’re going to deny ARob below the Anti-DeRosa sentiment, but if you want to post about getting him back it’s perfectly fine?
No, no that sounds about right.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pretzel logic
the DeRo Diehards (I didn’t realize there were so many nicknames you could create from DeRosa’s name) twist themselves into to justify their obsession is mind-boggling.
Like I said, 40 years a Cubs fan and never seen anything like it. Well, maybe the Lou Brock trade, but that was longer than 40 years ago and … oh, yeah, Lou Brock was a HALL OF FAMER who led baseball in steals until Rickey Henderson came along.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it is a Cubs board
So if I want to discuss DeRo, I think thats ok. If you want to give actual reasons for not having him back. Not a problem. But I see no stats, or reasons other than that DeRomantic…….
But unless Al tells me to stop discussing, I think I am free to discuss and shouldn’t be told to stop by someone besides Al. I believe I’m being told by a few of you that are sick of reading about it and it should be stopped. It’s not YOUR blog.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
It’s a Cubs blog, why are you going on and on about a man who played here for 2 seasons, and isn’t even on the team anymore?
by McRipper on Jun 19, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's being discussed
as a possible hire. We do that here. Jake Peavy NEVER played for the Cubs, should we never have discussed him?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By who?
Possible hire by who? Madison Cubs Fan? Drewishdrewid? Al? I don’t remember seeing any rumors that the Cubs are interested in reaquiring DeRosa. The interest in Peavey, on the other hand, was actually confirmed by the Cubs, you know, the team that 90% of the people on this site think they actually are a part of.
by McRipper on Jun 19, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I don’t know where you read. But there was discussion on this blog that the Cubs had indicated they were looking at a possible deal. There’s no way to know how serious that was.
There was no confirmation that the Cubs were looking at Harden till they hired Harden.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al partipated in the discussion
So he must have thought it was an ok topic to discuss and it’s HIS blog. If you have one and don’t want to discuss it…. your choice. But to tell me that I shouldn’t discuss something that Al is discussing…. isn’t your right.
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at this point
it’s “Boy, he’s doing really well, and we know he meshed well with our clubhouse, and we need someone who can play third and get hits.”
Mark DeRosa is that guy. It’s not about romanticizing him. It’s about getting someone in the clubhouse to help this team out.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would you give up
to get him, drew? Fully knowing, of course, that keeping him beyond this season isn’t practical, for a variety of reasons.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um. Well. One of Harden, Wells or Marshall. Fox. Hart or Ascanio or Cotts. That gives them pitching, and a bat that can’t play any position.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to do that,
Why not give up one or more of those guys for a better player who is likely to contribute longer? (Like Sanchez or Huff) Rather than a half-season rental of DeRo. Wait, are we really talking about DeRo like we’d talk about Nomar? Or Manny?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know much about Huff, and I’m not convinced that Sanchez can contribute longer. Furthermore, Sanchez has payroll issues.
DeRosa is playing better this year then he did last year. It’s hard to ignore that.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yosh Kawano is more that guy than Mark DeRosa.
"Nice to hear some cheers for once," Bradley said. "I didn't come here to suck. I know I've sucked so far, but give me some love, you know what I'm saying? I am a Cub."
by Bildo1805 on Jun 19, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what?
For him to move to the background when Ramirez comes back? You think Bradley and Soriano are going to keep slumping? Fontenot is much more cost effective than DeRosa is. It’s over, DeRosa is an Indian.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot
is also much more exposed, and his platoon partner is Miles. If DeRosa came back, Fonty would go back to the bench, and Miles would be gone. DeRo would be the starting second baseman again, and he would do the super-sub thing when needed, which is when Fonty would play.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, he then moves to second base and miles goes home.
fontenot goes to the bench, playing when derosa spells other positions around the field. looks pretty useful to me. looks to be exactly what this team needs.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jun 20, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it was the CUBS!
Max Flack and Cliff Heathcote are the only players to play for both teams in a doubleheader, having been traded by the Cubs and Cardinals, respectively, between games on May 30, 1922.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right
I remember a Cub was involved in it.
Youngblood, I think, was a Mientkiewicz-type thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's another instance...
The Mets in 1979, traded for Jose Cardenal in between games of a doubleheader. Cardenal crossed the hall and dressed — but did not play — for the Mets in the second game. “A couple of Mets players, John Stearns and a few guys, were saying, ‘What are you doing here? Wrong clubhouse!’” Mets manager Joe Torre was going to play Cardenal, who asked out of the lineup. “I could not do it. I was in shock.”
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 19, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This wasn't part of a DH
but didn’t somebody get traded last year to a team his club was playing at the time? I think the Giants were involved.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a 1983 fleer card that talks about this.
I have no idea who it was, but there’s your research jumping off point.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This would be ideal
I originally didn’t mind the DeRosa trade because I thought it would make us better. But after seeing him in a different uniform, I realized how much I miss him. I’m a mess without him. I can only hope that DeRosa finds his way back into my life. To just be able to see him everyday in a Cubs uniform again would make this season worthwhile.
Please Hendry, bring me DeRosa back.
by McRipper on Jun 19, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
This is excellent satire. Sounds like an entry for an “Advice to the Lovelorn” column or something.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like starting an Anti Mark DeRosa section of this site or something.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or better yet...
start your own… then you wont have to read about it
"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
The DeRosa circle jerk is pretty pathetic at this site.
by McRipper on Jun 19, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly
It isn’t just this site. It’s everywhere.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not quite everywhere,
but it’s pretty predominant.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sure is
and it didn’t all start after ARam’s injury, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what's more pathetic?
The group of posters who insist that Mark DeRosa could not have helped this Cubs team, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary… and who have started up a little cottage industry of insulting those who can see the plain facts in front of their faces.
I picture the whole lot of you as Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House with your eyes closed and ears covered screaming “ALL IS WELL!” as the parade comes crashing down.
But hey – in three years, we may have a middle reliever who costs somewhat less than a similar middle reliever would have cost to acquire from another team. Or we might not.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not as pathetic
as you guys lining up to get your sip-cups of juice from Jim Jones. Or Al. Or somebody.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dood.
wow. Cmon.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hyperbole, Drew,
I freely admit, and it’s over the top. Like some other posts I’ve read here today (and on many, many other days).
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you as much time as you need.
Seriously, find one sentence of hyperbolic, over the top “man love” for Mark DeRosa from me, and I’ll drop this discussion permanently and declare you the Internet Argument Winner.
Until then, you’re way too old to be calling people names on the internet while trying like heck to defend a position you probably don’t actually believe in.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe in it more fervently now than ever
And your preceding post is hyperbolic enough for me.
You’re way too old to be acting like you just saw your first picture of Rick Springfield in Tiger Beat magazine.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
shakes my head
I just don’t get it. He could be a valuable part of the team this year. We know his track record. Your ridicule is misplaced.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew, you're usually pretty level-headed
Are you really telling me there’s nobody else who can do what DeRosa can do? Nobody available who can do it better?
C’mon. You’re better than that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me who?
Who can? Who is available, won’t blow the bank, and actually better?
Like I said, I don’t know about Huff. I don’t think Sanchez can. I think you’ve gotten so vested in being against DeRosa that ANY positive statement about him gets an automatic reaction from you.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is really
making my head hurt.
The DeRo Rooters AREN’T so vested in getting their man? They’re totally dispassionate about the whole thing?
Ridiculous. Like I said, I liked him, but it’s over.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you act
as if players aren’t traded back to teams they came from ever.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Sigh*
Forget it, Drew. We’ll agree to disagree on this one.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because he's not a great hitter
and he’s owed a lot of money next year, in part. There’s been quite thorough discussion of Sanchez.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I take that as a concession?
I think this shows that you aren’t interested in discussing this issue rationally. You’d much rather make stuff up and compare posters who disagree with you to cultists.
As for your last comment – clock’s still ticking, bucko. Find me one sentence of over-the-top man love for DeRosa, and you are Today’s BIG WINNER.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All over this board, buck-o
You don’t have to look hard to find it.
Talk about people who don’t want to discuss the subject rationally.
You can take it as absolute frustration. And you can also take it as thankfulness fans don’t operate major-league baseball franchises.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, just show me a sentence.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
a bunch of grown men sitting around engorging themselves over Mark " I’m a decent player that spent 2 years on the Cubs but I wouldn’t even be talked about if Ramirez was still in the lineup" DeRosa is pretty pathetic. You would think the Cubs traded Sandberg in his prime.
by McRipper on Jun 19, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
I don’t understand why you have to demean people who believe differently than you do.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do yourself a favor.
Look up what Ryne Sandberg did at age 31-34. Then look at what DeRosa has done during those seasons, including his age 34 season in progress.
Ryno still comes out on top in ages 31 and 32, but obviously, he had monster “HOF” type seasons there. Even so, they were more or less equal in their age 33 seasons. Ryno broke his wrist before his age 33 season, and then he couldn’t hit for power in his age 34 season, and baseball ended, and that was that.
The Cubs traded DeRosa after his age 33 season, believing that 2008 was his “career year.” He’s well on his way to matching that career year again in 2009.
Can you imagine the hue and cry that would have occurred if the Cubs had traded Sandberg after his (admittedly mortal) 33 year old season in 1993, claiming that the wrist injury made him less valuable? Forget that he was Ryne Sandberg, Cub Hero for a moment – he was still a 2B posting year after year of 110+ OPS seasons. Just like Mark DeRosa.
Now imagine what would have happened if Sandberg’s post-trade 1994 had looked like DeRosa’s 2009. The fans would have taken to the barricades.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First he's Brett Favre, now Ryne Sandberg...
well at least you’re getting somewhat closer. When you finally get to his actually closest comp according to bbref, Mike Lamb, let me know.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why isn't DeRosa
the highest-paid player in baseball? After all, he’s Brett Favre and Ryne Sandberg all rolled up into one.
Are you people listening to yourselves? Do you really believe your own bullshxt?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it disgusting!
This is a guy who’s two closest comps are Mike Lamb and Paul Lo Duca, and he gets treated like this.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, we're all pining for the Atlanta Braves version of DeRosa.
For the last 5 years, DeRosa has been at least 10% better than his career totals across the board.
Looking at DeRosa’s career totals, or career averages, is a ridiculous premise. For whatever reason, he went from being a league-average guy to a substantially-better-than-league-average guy when he turned 31. And he’s stayed there for 4 years.
At some point, you should recognize that when you’re having the same conversation in 4 different threads with only 2 posters – the same 2 posters – backing you up, it might be time to reevaluate your position. Or at least take a serious look at the stats.
But please, in the meantime, you and NBF can rhetorically stroke each other’s hair and tell each other how smart you are, and how pathetic and deluded everyone else is.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like my mother used to say
If all your friends are jumping off a bridge, you should, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, that's funny.
Regardless of everything else, that’s a great line.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 20, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you not looking at the numbers?
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+
.285 /.376/.481/.857/118 - Player A
.309/.359/.412/.772/108 - Player B
Who is player A and who is player B?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please stop.
I understand that when Ryno was falling off, at the bottom of his career, he may have been similar to Mark DeRosa’s peak. But comparing the two is just lunacy.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
falling off?
That’s from 1993. He went to the all star game in 1993.
But here, compare DeRosa’s last year to a year when Sandberg went to the All Star Game, won the Silver Slugger and the Golden Glove — 1984
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+
.285 /.376/.481/.857/118
.314/.367/.520/.887/140
Those are pretty close in the OBP, OPS and OPS+ categories.
In 1988, Sandburg went:
.264/.322/.419/.741/108
Now, wanna average Sandberg from 1993 and 1984?
I bet you don’t.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's a golden glove?
Also, who’s Sandburg?
But not that any of that matters. You just showed a year where Sandberg was definitively better, and called them close. DeRosa has had 2, maybe 3 good seasons. Sandberg did it consistently for over a decade.
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Sandberg did it while playing plus defense at 2nd
Derosa is far, far inferior defensively.
by Wreckard on Jun 19, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure
but he’s not far far inferior to Miles. We’re not replacing Sandberg with DeRosa. We’re replacing Miles and Fontenot with DeRosa.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot is a far superior defender to Derosa
If it weren’t for the injury to Ramirez, Miles wouldn’t enter into the equation. Hendry took a gamble: that the added salary which paid for Bradley would offset losing depth in the infield.
Obviously so far that gamble hasn’t paid off – but we’re only 3.5 back with a lot of games to go.
by Wreckard on Jun 19, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same argument
I’ve made ad naseum (except Fontenot being the better defender, just too lazy to go to THT or Fangraphs to look, my own fault) but it doesn’t seem to be sinking in……anywhere.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've read that 3 times and I'm not sure what you're saying
What aspect of my “argument” isn’t sinking exactly? I’m genuinely confused.
by Wreckard on Jun 20, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
What I’m saying is this is what I’ve been arguing the whole time. If Ramirez weren’t hurt this wouldn’t even be an issue.
I then went on to say I was going to look at THT or FanGraphs to compare Fontenot/DeRosa fielding wise but I was just too lazy.
I should’ve clarified, sorry.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 20, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except that
Fontenot doesn’t appear to be an everyday player. Even with Rami being well, Miles would still be playing games.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 20, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Miles playing very few games is not neccesarily a bad thing. Miles playing little means a better player (Ramirez) is playing more thus contributing more making the margin for error wider which then allows Lou to rest said better player (Ramirez).
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 20, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you're going with
spelling mistakes, because that’s what you got?
If Sandberg did it consistently for over a decade, why did he play worse than DeRosa in 1988?
Christ. No one’s calling DeRosa the second coming. He’s just a piece that would fit well right now. Not that any Harden for DeRosa trade is happening now, with the way Harden got jobbed today.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Sandberg
(depending on what statistic you want to use) played better than DeRosa most every other year (with a few exceptions)
Don’t even get me started on Win Probability either.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 20, 2009 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two points.
1. I’m pretty sure I never brought Brett Favre up. He’s a f*cking football player. I don’t see how that’s relevant.
2. DeRosa wasn’t much of a hitter until his age 30 season or thereabouts. If you’re interested in who his stat contemporaries are if you give more weight to the last 5 years, I think your argument falls apart pretty quickly.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryne Sandberg
Was a ‘hitter’ all his career (except to the end for some reason), more valuable than DeRosa bar none.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 20, 2009 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and again
if you really want to see thei dfifference in the two, Win Probabilities and Win Shares.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 20, 2009 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why again
are we comparing Sandberg and DeRosa in their 30’s? I don’t understand. I’m sitting here thinking about this. Isolating a HOF second baseman’s career in the first few years of his 30’s and whatever Mark DeRosa is puts little to no context on board. What does it matter that he was anywhere close to Sandberg in the first few years of his thirties? Are you trying to show he was as valuable? It still doesn’t subtract from the argument Jim Hendry traded high, as most every other GM likes to do regardless of fan’s emotional attatchment. Given the information at hand (very inconsitent play in his 20’s) and talking it over with baseball folks that are much smarter than you and I, I’m sure somewhere the idea was thrown out that he’ll probably “regress to the mean”. The stock has already hit a new high, sell it now and cash in.
Mark DeRosa would look very good on this team this year because of this team slumping as it is. However once Ramirez is back in the order and Bradley, Soriano and the like start hitting like they’re apt to, this Mark DeRosa manlove will be a shadow of what ti once was.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 20, 2009 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's very well known
That a player entering his 30’s will regress, no matter who it is. Hendry sold high, something General Mangers do all the time.
And are you seriously comparing Mark DeRosa’s 2 years to the almost 12 that Ryne Sandberg would have had 1994? Taking away the similar play, Of course Cub fans would have gone nuts, if they’re stupid enough to go insane about a guy who was only in Chicago for 2 years they would’ve commited mass suicide in front of Wrigley field for a guy who was in Chicago for 12.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 19, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
two issues
1) We don’t know if Hendry sold high — what he got for DeRosa was prospects who may or may not pan out for us.
2) Mark DeRosa appears to be playing BETTER this year than last year.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 20, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No no
WE DO know Hendry sold high. He sold very high, perhaps you’re right, perhaps DeRosa may go higher, but there’s no doubt that Hendry sold said player high given the statistics at hand.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jun 20, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no we don't.
every one of those prospects could end up being dropped, or never set foot on a major league field.
Really selling DeRosa high would have meant getting MLB ready players. We didn’t do that.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 21, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still waiting for one valid point
on how mark derosa and his OPS +113 could not have helped this team.
by hoppy91 on Jun 19, 2009 2:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Mauer would help this team too.
We better go get him!
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who ever said he couldn't help the team?
Go back and re-read every argument here. Nobody ever said he was bad!
by ARob1 on Jun 19, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then we agree that
the cubs should never have traded him?
by hoppy91 on Jun 19, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
You can make an excellent argument for trading him. There certainly was no expectation he would duplicate the numbers he put up in 2008. Hendry sold high for once.
And it appears the relief pitchers the Cubs got in exchange aren’t too shabby.
So no, I don’t agree that the Cubs never should have traded him. There was excellent justification for doing so.
If you want to judge deals after 2.5 months, go ahead. I don’t think anybody who really knows baseball does.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team has a small window to
win it all imho. Trading one of your better players for three prospects isnt going to help you win a world series now. i dont think anyone who knows baseball thinks relief pitching prospects are going to get you a championship.
by hoppy91 on Jun 19, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he sold high, why was the return
only 3 middling pitching prospects?
and can you explain the argument for trading him?
the ones i’ve heard: we needed to get more left handed; derosa probably wasn’t going to continue putting up his numbers.
those both seem ridiculous to me, especially as we continue to have faith that our offense will come around because of past performance.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jun 20, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
that’s the best they could get for him. Which would be telling.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 20, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We shouldn't have traded Joe Mauer for 3 middle relief prospects, either.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Mauer = Mark DeRosa
I have officially entered the Twilight Zone.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exhibit A right here, folks.
NBF is a disingenuous liar, or has serious reading comprehension deficiencies.
You know damn well that I never compared Mauer to DeRosa. I was responding to A-Rob1’s brilliant assertion that we shouldn’t be considering Mark DeRosa, because “Joe Mauer would help this team too… we better go get him!”
You see, I was making light of ARob’s comment, and noting the lack of logic of his argument. When asked nicely why Mark DeRosa wouldn’t have helped this team, ARob provided an irrelevant answer, noting the truism that there are better players than Mark DeRosa.
Well, granted.
I, in turn, noted that I wouldn’t trade those players away for pitching prospects, either.
I assure you that I didn’t believe that the Cubs had actually traded Mauer away for ptiching prospects.
This is precisely how you came to accuse Al of saying that losing DeRosa was worse than losing Maddux. It’s either poor reading comprehension, or being a disingenous jerk.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 19, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you have poor reading comprehension
and ARE a disingenuous jerk, so I guess you’ve got two on me. What a maroon you are.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're comparing Mauer's worth to DeRosa's
and saying it’s roughly equal. That’s exactly what you did.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 19, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Said it before and I'll say it again ..
THE CUBS RUE THE DAY THEY TRADED DEROSA.
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!