Sammy Sosa Did WHAT? - Cubs vs. Tigers Preview, Tuesday 6/23, 6:05 CT
by Al on Jun 23, 2009 4:00 PM CDT
in Game Threads
87 comments
This has nothing to do with tonight's game, but CNBC's website today posted this article about Sammy Sosa supposedly altering his jerseys so he'd look bigger:
It turns out Sosa had his jerseys tapered around his arms for a period of years. A study of photo archives suggests Sosa’s jerseys were tailored with elastic inside the arms from 2002-2004, while he was playing with the Chicago Cubs.
Sosa’s custom ordering came to light thanks to pictures of an authentic Sosa jersey that is currently being auctioned off by Hunt Auctions. The jersey, advertised as being used by Sosa for the game he hit home run No. 470, was from the 2002 season.
CNBC confirmed through a source that Sosa did indeed ask for the elastic arm tapering for at least the 2002 season. The source said that he could not remember another player that asked for this specification.
"I don’t know why it would be tapered like that other than it being a purely cosmetic change so that people could see his muscles," said David Hunt, president of Hunt Auctions. "There doesn’t seem to be any other reason why he’d do it."
The mind boggles. FWIW, Sosa hit career HR #470 in a 7-6 loss to the Brewers at Miller Park on June 3, 2002.
Now, back to reality. The Cubs last faced the Tigers at Wrigley Field in 2006, when the Cubs were awful and the Tigers were on their way to the World Series. The Tigers swept the series, outscored the Cubs 26-9, and hit nine homers. That won't happen this week -- the two teams are much more evenly matched in 2009. Expect Lou to mix-and-match his DH's this week, giving guys like Derrek Lee and Milton Bradley and perhaps Alfonso Soriano all turns in the DH slot, to keep their bats in the lineup while "resting" them from the field. While the Cubs are in Detroit, former Tigers star and now Cubs bench coach Alan Trammell plans to drive by the remains of Tiger Stadium.
More below the fold.
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Edwin Jackson, despite starting his career in the NL with the Dodgers, has never faced the Cubs. He has faced three current Cubs while they were with other teams: Alfonso Soriano (0-for-1), Reed Johnson (0-for-2), and Aaron Miles (3-for-7, go figure).
Carlos Zambrano has never faced the Tigers. However, he's got a pretty long history against a couple of current Tigers: Adam Everett, from his time in Houston (3-for-29), and Miguel Cabrera, who spent a long time with the Marlins (4-for-18, a double, 2 HR).
Today's Extra Innings telecast will be the Tigers feed, since the Cubs will be on WGN. For other games today see the MLB.com Mediacenter.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SBN Tigers site Bless You Boys. The name supposedly derives from a phrase former Tigers manager Sparky Anderson used to use.
Overflow comment threads will post today at 7 pm, 8 pm and 8:45 pm CDT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Let's Go Get Em Cubbies!!!
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 23, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lots of buff guys...
Do things to show off their muscles. Who cares if Sammy did the same thing? Seriously, what a waste of time by whoever spent time on that article.
Anyways… gonna have to miss this game due to this girl cooking dinner for me (steak and potatoes, can’t pass that up!) but I’ll be checking the score on my phone all night. Go Cubs!!!
by kanderber on Jun 23, 2009 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That means you're on kitchen clean-up duty tonight!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 23, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CNBC shows you how to be on the cutting edge of journalism
Ick.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 23, 2009 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In other news...
It’s been reported that some women wear clothing that will accentuate their best features. More to come on the 5 o’clock news.
by kanderber on Jun 23, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for that laugh!
It’s been a terrible day, and that was the first time I laughed all day. Thanks again.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 23, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this isn't very important as stories go
But it’s not completely without news value. It’s not very important, but it’s kind of funny. How many other ballplayers do this? I’ve never heard of it before.
Besides, it’s interesting only a week after the steroids report, IMO.
by elgato on Jun 23, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I haven’t heard of any other players doing this.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 23, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, Al
Sorry, I didn’t stop by to say hello on Sunday. My seats were in the right field upper deck.
by elgato on Jun 23, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was up there too.
Wore my BCB shirt thinking I would have some fellow BCB’ers say hi… No one did though.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Jun 23, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, no worries.
Next time, for both of you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 23, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are BCB shirts?
and where could one find these?
by bbates6 on Jun 23, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 23, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Along with solid $20 range presents for everyone you've known, ever.
That store has single handedly made me look awesome for birthdays, Christmases, holidays and celebrations for the last two years.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 23, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When it comes to fashion,
people do (and wear) silly things.
Look how many players today wear their pants hanging over their shoes and wear baggy jerseys and pants.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 23, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attention old-timers...
didn’t Ted Kluszewski do something similar when he was with the Reds? Except instead of tapering his sleeves, I think he’d rip his off. From his baseball-reference.com page
Brand Washburn sponsor(s) this page.
‘Big Klu’s’ trademark was his cut-off sleeves on his jerseys. His biceps and shoulders were so big that the regular fit of the uniform hampered his swing. He played with Red’s greats like Frank Robinson, Gus Bell, Wally Post, Joe Nuxhall and Roy McMillan.
And here’s a shot of Big Klu in action
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 23, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny Allen
Cleveland Indians pitcher Johnny Allen was fined in 1938 for refusing the umpire[[COMMENT_CHILDREN_TOKEN]]#8217;s order to cut off part of his sweat-shirt sleeve. Allen, who was famous for cutting the ends of his sleeves to let more air in, was repeatedly warned about the flying threads whenever he pitched. On 06/07/1938, Umpire Bill McGowan ordered Allen to cut off part of his sweat-shirt sleeve which was dangling when he pitched. Allen, known for his volatile temper, did not obligue. The stubborn pitcher stormed off the mound and refused to pitch was fined $250 by Cleveland manager Oscar Vitt for his actions. The ragged shirt Allen wore is now part of the MLB Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York.
From here.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 23, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy Foxx..........
……….did as well and was mentioned in the article.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Jun 23, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ted Kluszewski would like a word with you.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 23, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 tickets to the gun show!
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 23, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, this is a violation of the rules
Players may not cut or in any way alter the Club-supplied outerwear.
From here.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 23, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is more of a comfort thing...
When I played in college, there was a group of us who asked to have our sleeves tapered because it actually bothered me to have these big flappy sleeves. None of us had huge muscles or anything it was more of a comfort thing and it bothered me when I hit and threw.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Jun 23, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see how this is any different than Dwight Howard wearing a tight jersey. Who gives a crap how a guy likes to wear his own clothing?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 23, 2009 4:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait, Sammy was impressed with his physique and
wanted to show it off? No way! (sarcasm)
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Bless You Boys" was the catch phrase
of the 1984 season. I don’t think it was Sparky, but some other person who uttered it and the public ran with it.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al Ackerman, Tigers announcer, used to sign off with the phrase....
“And the Tigers win 8-3. Bless you boys”, during the 84 season.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 23, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what it was.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks al for the Sparky reference!
I grew up a Tigers fan and have fond memories of Sparky managing the Tigers, particularly in 1984. People went totally nuts when they won it all. I can’t wait to find out what Chicago will be like when the Cubs win the WS!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jun 23, 2009 4:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sosa probably used a rubber band connecting the sleeves across his back to help him get through the zone quicker.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Jun 23, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He attached it to the cork bolts in his neck?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs signed Jackson:
CHICAGO — The Chicago Cubs have agreed to terms with outfielder Brett Jackson, the club’s first-round selection (31st overall) in the 2009 Major League Baseball First-Year Player Draft, pending a physical.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jun 23, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Any chance the Cubs can score more than 3 runs vs Jackson?
That would be a good test for them.. Hopefully that ATL game was just a bad day, and they’ll get back to business today
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 23, 2009 4:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hoff the DH tonight
Lineup:
1. Soriano
2. Theriot
3. Bradley
4. Lee
5. Hoffpauir — DH
6. Soto
7. Fukudome
8. Fontenot — 3B
9. Blanco — 2B
by cubbieblue on Jun 23, 2009 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember thinking that this (With ARAM for Blanco) was a totally killer lineup.
Actually I still think that, but it sure would be nice if these guys would start hitting consistently. We haven’t had one of those 19-4 games yet this year. I think we’re do for that at some point..
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 23, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Carlos is not happy about not being able to bat.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by tucsoncubsfan on Jun 23, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Zambrano should be batting over about half those guys.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 23, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like
this lineup.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 23, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I could no longer be surprised by anything about Sammy...
…until I heard that several players took advantage of his early exit in ‘04 to urinate in his locker.
I can’t imagine a Cub in history who was more disliked in the clubhouse.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 23, 2009 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That really tells you all you need to know.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how much of it was jealousy...
When you’re a pro baseball player and the guy sitting next to your locker has 20 reporters talking to him EVERY SINGLE DAY, and you rarely get even one mic in your face… eventually there’s going to be some resentment there.
by kanderber on Jun 23, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was about the pounding salsa music Sammy would turn
on and leave on whether he was in the locker room or not.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, of course.
Obviously that and the other similar things were the biggest factors. I just think that jealousy/resentment played a part as well.
by kanderber on Jun 23, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably correct. That a guy they knew was a self absorbed jerk
was beloved by fans must have been tough to be around.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. Sammy was flawless
the problem wasn’t him-it was all the other guys in the clubhouse-lol
by bluekoolaide on Jun 23, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised you care about this Al?
To me it’s a pretty silly story. Who cares if he wore his sleeves tight? How is this any different from what NFL players do?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 23, 2009 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seemed pretty vain of him.
But, again, that’s Sammy.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 23, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right...it shouldn't surprise you.
Just like the story about he tested positive, I read this and said…“yeah, so?” Sad, but I expect this out of Slammin Sammy at this point.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 23, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want a BCB shirt
w/ elastic sleeves! We’ll show off the pipes!
"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69
by tommy veryzer on Jun 23, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I want one with elastic neck
show off my laryngeal prominence…. aka Adam’s Apple
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 23, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about one like this?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 23, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess this will be my last beer
…for today.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 23, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"So, do you know what you're having?"
“Yup, a coors light beer ball.”
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
god
now I want to go starve myself.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 23, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, so I can look like that.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CNBC is a joke...
Chicago Cubs > Milwaukee Brewers
by CUBSfaninYANKEEcountry on Jun 23, 2009 4:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cable TV news are a joke
Have you stumbled upon CNN lately? Ick x2.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 23, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. They are all pretty pathetic.
Chicago Cubs > Milwaukee Brewers
by CUBSfaninYANKEEcountry on Jun 23, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Publicity stunt
I’m thinking this may be a weak attempt for Hunt Auctions to drum up interest for the auction of Sammy’s muscle-jersey…. coincidence that there’s the editorial quote from the president of Hunt Auctions? Everything is a marketing ploy these days.
Speaking of which, that’s the same reason why Sammy tapered the jersey in the first place – to market Sammy to the fans. He always tried to be a great entertainer – showing off big muscles was just an additional way to drum up interest for himself.
by hewtown on Jun 23, 2009 4:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Another fine piece...
…of sports journalism.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 23, 2009 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dumb question
but does the pitcher have to be the one left out of the lineup? Could, for example, Blanco not bat, and Zambrano does?
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 23, 2009 5:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No.
A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and allsubsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be includedin the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief.
The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 23, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused
unless the opposing club changes pitchers.
So if Leyland switches pitchers we can change DHs? Or?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 23, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the point is...
… if, say, the other team starts a RHP and you have a LH hitting DH batting 7th, 8th or 9th… say the RHP gets knocked out in the first six batters, and they replace him with a LHP.
You could then substitute a LH hitter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 23, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That also makes sense.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 23, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm.
Thats interesting…. I guess.
I like NL rules. So much more straightforward.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 23, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forget straightforward
They’re much more like, you know, baseball rules
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 23, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume it means the DH can be changed before the game if the scheduled starting pitcher is changes.
For the Lefty/Righty matchup.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 23, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So like if a rain delay happened
and they scrubbed Jackson, we could put Fox in for Hoff and still have the DH?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 23, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the magic question is if Sammy had to have his jock altered to cover
up any residual PED issues.
I know, cheap shot. Just couldn’t help it.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyway
Go Cubs.
Off to die in the heat on the fairgrounds at 4H…. Hopefully back in time to catch some of it.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 23, 2009 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What about the tight pants Sammy wore? No comments from CNBC?
Those are parts of the anatomy that CNBC deals with all day in talking about the market. I guess that is hitting “too close to home.”
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
by LAcarl519 on Jun 23, 2009 5:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CNBC’s website today posted this article about Sammy Sosa supposedly altering his jerseys so he’d look bigger:
Well. So if tailoring can make one look bigger, and people were using pictures to argue about whether or not Sosa was using… I guess THAT argument is right out the window.
Hah.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 23, 2009 5:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hot off the press:
Sandberg: Sosa doesn’t belong in Hall
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 23, 2009 5:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not that hot...
there is already a FanShot about this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 23, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn it. CTRL + F, and type in Sandberg
And it didn’t find anything.
Oh well.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 23, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect Sandberg immensely.
But he’s being very simplistic about it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 23, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With all due respect,
I couldn’t agree with Sandberg more. Sammy is more than a flawed hero. ISTM he’s Jose Canseco with better stats.
"This is an environment of welcoming, and you should just get the hell outta here." --Michael Scott
by Reddevil on Jun 23, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Santo on Sosa's jersey
I listened to a lot of Cubs games on the radio in those years, and I remember Ron Santo commenting on it a couple times. I think he said that players in his day wouldn’t show off their guns, or they’d get thrown at if they did, something like that. He seemed to think Sosa was rolling up his sleeves.
I guess Kluszewski was slightly before Santo’s time, finishing his career just as Ronnie started. He only got hit 23 times in over 6000 PAs, so it doesn’t look like he was much of a target.
by aldimond on Jun 23, 2009 5:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey all...
… come join me over in the game thread!
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 23, 2009 6:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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