Ryno says Sosa shouldn't be in HOF

Well to me when he says Sosa doesnt deserve to be in I am fully convinced he does not belong. But where does that leave Bonds/Arod/Clemens?

over 2 years ago jkobus 15 comments 0 recs |

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interesting

Speaking of Sosa, has he responded to the Times’ story?

by elgato on Jun 23, 2009 2:28 PM CDT reply actions

He doesn't speak English

when asked about steroids.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jun 23, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions

I probably reach the same conclusion as Ryno, but

using integrity as his litmus test strikes me as odd.

He could argue Sammy’s numbers are a sham and the stats and awards that make up his HOF resume are tainted and inflated and without chemical assistance Sammy falls short and I probably agree.

There are many players in the HOF who exhibited no integrity, whether pitchers who scuff/wet/file baseballs or enraged bigots like Cobb.

This sounds too much like an argument Joe Morgan would use and I want better from Ryno.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 2:30 PM CDT reply actions

I just saw this on ESPN.com

I’m still torn between yes and no as to if Sosa should be in the Hall.

Until it’s proven, I think he belongs.

by Cubs and Hawks fan on Jun 23, 2009 2:31 PM CDT reply actions

Clearly we’re going to have to throw out the standard Hall of Fame metrics (500 home runs comes to mind) when analyzing the players of the era. But let’s assume at some point our fears are confirmed and the list is revealed to contain the majority of the HOF-worthy players of the era. Do we only admit the handful of hitters (for argument’s sake, let’s say Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, and Junior comprise that group) who were clean during that era? Or do we take the best players even if their numbers are inflated using PEDs . . . and try to filter out the noise like McGuire (who, outside of HRs was not exceptional in any other category)?

It would feel kind of odd to only have half a dozen hitters in the Hall for the steriods era of baseball, when we have more pitchers than that from the deadball era.

Not condoning the cheating in any way, but it would be hard to ignore the majority of the star stud players from an entire generation.

by madcow256 on Jun 23, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions

My opinion, not that it matters, would be

to analyze each player on their own merits and their specific stats and credentials for consideration, just like your McGuire example. Sammy may suffer the same fate, even thought his slugging stats are better.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Jun 23, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions

then I guess

Ryno will next be petitioning the HOF committee to toss people like Gaylord Perry out of the Hall, since he has actually admitted to cheating. This is stupid. Players have been cheating in baseball forever, trying to get the edge on other players, from steroids, to greenies to Ty Cobb sharpening his spikes to allow him to steal bases because when he went spikes up no one wanted to be near him. If we toss out all the questionable folks out of the HOF, the Hall would be a hollow shell of what it is and a lot of great players would be gone.

See what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
Also, see the Cubs 2009 schedule at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2009.html

by kaseyi on Jun 23, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions

Crikey

Gaylord Perry slathered a little Vaseline on a baseball during the last half of his career. But hey, if you want to compare THAT to injecting performance enhancing drugs into one’s bloodstream then I can’t argue with idiocy.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jun 24, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions

I think the HOF is a relic of the past

An institution borne from a time of innocence and ignorance among fans. It is out of date, and the mere suggestion that “integrity” is a factor in getting in is pretty silly. Most of the guys in there are jerks – jerks we ought to be glad we never knew, except for the feats they accomplished on the field. As fans we are aware of players (perhaps by virtue of our own experiences or those of others) that were nice guys, and gave us the time of day, so good for those of us with those memories. The HOF is best served as a museum to document accomplishments in the game of baseball by the players – thats it. Sadly instead it has turned into a popularity contest, you think I give a crap if a jerk like Cobb was a racist? Well since he’s been dead for quite sometime I find it unlikely I’ll ever have to worry about him stabbing me in an alley.

"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"

by StevenABQ on Jun 23, 2009 4:24 PM CDT reply actions

Sandberg may be a bit naive...

…but consider his perspective. He did seem to play the game with the integrity he sees as necessary for HoF induction. Based on his comments in that article he also seems to have assumed that other players operated under the same convictions, which is, sadly, not the case.

I do think Sosa should be kept out of the Hall, though, if he did take steroids illegally to help achieve his accomplishments.

I agree with you that it should be about what the players accomplished on the field. For example, I think it’s ridiculous that Pete Rose is not there. However, when a player is known to have cheated to accomplish his numbers, I don’t think it’s fair to honor them in the same way we honor the players that seemingly did what they did legitimately.

by WiscCubsFan on Jun 23, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions

What About the Following:

Sosa is found to have taken steroids before they were put on the MLB banned list, but he is also found to have only taken them in the off-season and took them outside the United States in a jurisdiction where they were not illegal. Is THAT conduct which is “cheating”? He didn’t violate any rules of MLB and he didn’t violate any laws of any country. (It is not “illegal” for a U.S. Citizen to go to a foreign country and consume or use substances (such as certain artificial sweeteners) that are not illegal in that country.).

In this case IS SOSA CHEATING? I think that the answer is an unequivocal no.

by frustratedfan on Jun 24, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions

I disagree.

In this hypothetical, is Sosa cheating, yes, he still would be taking a substance prohibitied via commissioner memo and have artificially increased strength and muscle mass.

Is it illegal, no.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Jun 24, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions

On the Sosa front, a friend told me yesterday

that Fehr refjused to comment directly on the Sosa leak, but did reply that the individuals leaking the detail need to be brought to justice, or something to that effect.

I cannot locate any formal response by Fehr to anything related to the NYT article and Sosa. Does anyone have a link to any statement to this effect occurring after the Sosa news broke?

Please note until verified, this is not a rumor, just hearsay.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Jun 24, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions

Ryno keeps getting...

higher and higher on his horse…

by kanderber on Jun 24, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions

Performance enhancing drugs dramatically altered individual performance and the game

Slathering Vaseline on a baseball or taking a piece of sandpaper to the seams did not. Ditto sharpening one’s spikes or digesting greenies before a baseball game.

To suggest that steroids equates to any of these other past forms of “cheating” is ignorance run amok.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jun 24, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions