Lou "Puffy" Piniella
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 2:27 PM CDT
Email
PrintLou's comment in response to his lack of fire was of course "What do I need to show fire for ? I am not a dragon" Very amusing and it even made the " they said it " quote of the week in SI. Sadly Lou is not showing fire or anything else. I am pretty sure most BCB regulars know I am not fan of Lou's managing but c'mon SHOW SOME LIFE. You may not have fire but in too many games your team is going down in flames and all we get is that you have no idea how to fix it. You got all the lefties you wanted so figure out what to do with them. Try not using Marmol since has no command but most of all act like you care.. I am not a big fan of rants or dirt kicking etc but Lou does seem asleep at the wheel. In honor of of the most famous dragon and Lou's hip hop commercial with Ozzie I am going to call him "Puffy" Piniella from now on. Hopefully he can show some signs of really being engaged and not doing everything off some chart.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
180 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think
he needs to go. He has warmed out his welcome, if he ever had one. TIme to move on Lou, to the booth you go.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
To the booth?
Oh God, Piniella would be awful in the booth.
“Well……………… uhhhhhhh………….. the batter…………….. you know………………. he just needs to………….. swing the bat.”
You must not have been listening to the same Lou broadcasts I was.
He was awful.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
you know
with his heat. Never mind. Mute point. :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 25, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I should have read ahead
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jun 26, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
it's a mute point
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jun 26, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
try not using marmol?
you really think the only way for marmol to get better is to pitch less? you are completely wrong.
No one is going to get better
when they have NO command and you put them in over and over in crucial situations. He has to be both rested and used in less important situations unless and until he proves he can actually throw strikes. It is just bizarre that Lou keeps putting in the guy who walks the most batters. Marmol has lost it , I hope he can find it but he is no longer reliable .
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
sure he walks a ton, but
a walk is 1 total base. throughout the season, batters have not hit marmol well. would you rather give up 1 total base on a walk, or have a pitcher go in there and give up a solidly hit basehit.
Although I would like to see Guzman take on a strong role in the pen, because I think he has been stellar thus far.
Walking guys with the bases loaded scores runs
Seriously he has been a wreck this year. Yes flashes of the old Carlos but far from what he was. Guzman of course is now done because of the two innings had to pitch on Saturday when he was sore.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
he's not "done".
he’s on the DL for two weeks. Holy cow.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 25, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry I did not mean he was done for the season
but would have been nice to have him in this stretch.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
ok
there I will agree with you. I think if Guzman is available yesterday, he comes in instead of Marmol and that run isn’t walked in.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 25, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Like it or not...
Marmol is the best 8th inning option right now. Less Marmol and more Heilman is not a good thing.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 27, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
'cause, you know, the pitching him more than most other relievers thing has worked really well...
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
There you go...
…let’s just change managers, and everything will be peachy.
Don’t worry though, the farm is just loaded with 5 tool guys, so they should be in good shape down the road.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I don't think everything will be peachy
and I don’t think there a chance he will be fired but is it too much to ask that he show a little emotion and try actually shaking things up a bit.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand your point...
…and all I’m saying is this; most people turn immediately to the manager when a team is not going well, and that is just a total waste of time in most circumstances. Every player on the Cubs has probably played for 5-7 different managers during their years, and I’ll guarantee, none of them was the difference in them being successful or failing.
If the Cubs fail to make the playoffs this year, the entire organization needs revamping from top to bottom. I think Piniella is one of the better managers in the game, but the problems that have led up to where they are today, have nothing to do with the manager.
Give me a real solid baseball man who knows how to build all facets of a successful organization, and almost any manager could be successful.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
how has larussa had success throughout the years then??
because he certainly has not had the greatest of teams. He has had a ton of help from his pitching coach Dave Duncan, but still.
I do not put any blame on Piniella at all, I just wanted to point out that LaRussa is an exception to your statement.
Excellent observation...
…and I think the Cardinals have done a wonderful job in maximizing their talent, no doubt.
Duncan is worth his weight in gold, and I am a firm believer that Rothschild couldn’t hold his jock strap. They have turned more mediocre pitchers into positive contributers than any team in baseball, and that has had nothing to do with LaRussa. They have also been able to find the right “pieces” that make up a decent team vs going for the big FA splash, that may not fit what your team really needs. When Jocketty was their GM, they always at how the pieces fit together vs just accumulating big name players.
LaRussa himself, is a very good strategist and for the most part makes solid decisions during the game. Some say he over-manages (and he may at times), but he knows how to use the pieces he has, and he has had a better blend of pieces than the Cubs have had.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
LaRussa has always been a risk taker as well.
He is notorious for suicide squeeze plays.
Another thing that he does, which is quite interesting, is he sometimes bats the pitcher in the 8 spot. This can potentially maximize the number of runs batted in by his 2, 3 and 4 batters.
It has been shown that this only makes the difference of a couple of runs over the course of a season
However, at least it shows that Tony is trying to get something different to work.
that difference can lead to wins though....
I do believe that we have lost a few games to the Cards over the last few years because of these suicide squeezes.
I think LaRussa normally picks his spots well to bust out these moves.
LaRussa...
…has always been a bit of a trail blazer. He was the first manager to put a guy with power in the 2-hole (Carlton Fisk) and he was also the first manager to go through 3-4 relief pitchers in a short period of time to get the exact matchup he wants. Today, a lot of guys has followed what he started.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Well in my case
I have been on my crusade against Lou’s managing since last April and I got ripped for suggesting that a guy who “won” 97 games was not a good manager. At least last year he did in fact show some fire or engagement.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
When?
I think last year he sat back and pushed buttons, since the players were doing so well.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
can you please tell me that your sources see some moves coming
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 25, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
What is Hendry going to do...
…at this point?
He could fire Piniella I guess and hope that makes a difference. Is that the answer to turning the club around?
Hendry has taken some risks in putting this team together, and so far in 09, everything has happened to expose the baggage that were already known about each player he has acquired:
Soriano – has been hot/cold his whole career and was why the Yanks let him go
Bradley – has been a DL machine his whole career, but I’ll admit he should be hitting better than he is.
Harden – Trust me, Oakland wouldn’t have let him go if they didn’t think he was going to continue to be very inconsistant because of his health issues
Fontenot – has never been an everyday player, and it does not appear that he is.
Soto – Is he a one year wonder?
Ramirez – was showing signs he is good for one good DL stint per year, and I see this getting worse as he ages.
All in all, you had serious clues about all these guys. All you can hope for now, is that the tide turns in the 2nd half and some good things start to happen.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I don't know what he's going to do.
At this point, i just want some moves because as a fan, I see this as “alright this team is struggling and let’s just wait till Ramirez comes back. everything will get better then. The players will start to hit and everything will be great.”
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 25, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The Rockies situation shows that changing a manager can make a difference
That team was absolutely dead in the water, they fired Hurdle, and Jim Tracy, who is not, in my estimation a remotely good manager, has gotten the most out of his team.
Does it happen every time? No, but you can’t say for certain that a change in managers would make no difference
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
No I can't...
…but what I can say, is any change would certainly be temporary in nature, and the problems that got you to this point would still be in place.
Enough with the band-aid approach to fixing things. The organization needs surgery, not a topical ointment.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I dunno... methinks certain parts of this organization could use a special type of topical ointment... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If your right...
…than all you can hope is that Hendry cans him and that move solves all the problems.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
He won't be fired
The only remote chance he goes is if he just admits he does not have it in him anymore leaves on his own.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
This is one thing about Piniella.
I think one of the reasons he keeps saying “I don’t know how to fix it” is calling out Hendry for not giving him better players.
Of course, a lot of the roster construction this year is Piniella’s own fault for wanting more LH hitters.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's were I disagree...
…it is ALWAYS the GM’s responsibility to have the final say before he signs or trades for any player. If that GM, does not have the smarts to know what the right choices are for your club, you will pay for it, and this has reared it’s ugly head over Hendry’s tenure.
Hendry has gotten a pass for some very poor roster assembly over the years, and for the most part the poor performance of player development – which has been the main reason he has had to search (and overpay) for players via FA and trades over the years.
IMO, as long as these weaknesses continue in the GM position, you can go out and get LaRussa, Torre, Sciocia or whoever and it won’t make a damn bit of difference.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think Hendry..
…. gives far too much leeway to his manager for roster construction. Obviously, the manager should have input, but not dictate.
It was the same under Baker.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Could be true...
…and if so, why is he the GM?
I recall reading about Bobby Cox and the GM in Atlanta (Scherholz, sp) and how many disagreements they had over players. They would eventually work it out, and Sherholz would always have the final say (sometimes against what Cox wanted) in who they would acquire. In the end, managers manage and GM’s chose who is on the roster. If a GM relies on their manager too heavily, they are asking for problems, because a lot of good managers aren’t cut out to be GM’s.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm not disagreeing with you.
I think Hendry is wrong to do this. The GM should be the final arbiter. I think Hendry gives Piniella too much say without overriding when he thinks Lou (or before, Dusty) is wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This brings us...
…to the ultimate question – does Hendry have the baseball to know they are wrong? IMO, I don’t think he does, which is why you have seen such poor roster decisions during his tenure.
It was a sad day when Maddux was allowed to sign with the Braves, because he was in his prime and the Cubs could have enjoyed 10+ years of a great pitcher. It was also a sad day when Dallas Green was forced out, because he could have built something really solid if given the opportunity.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Missed a word...
…meant to say – does Hendry has the baseball sense to know they are wrong?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
You'd like to think so.
I agree with you on the Maddux and Green points. Sad days in Cubs history, indeed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You do realize Maddux leaving was 10 years before Hendry was GM, right?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't blaming that on Hendry...
…just stating that both of these loses had a dramatic effect (IMO) on the club.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I agree with that
I think the worst was the loss of Dallas Green — and the loss of Gordon Goldsberry that went along with it.
Looking back, if the Cubs hadn’t won the division in 1984, the expectations wouldn’t have been heightened. Maybe Green would have been given more time to win with his home-grown players — and with consistency.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Dallas Green...
…acquired an absolutely horrid organization when he came on board, and was able to accomplish quite a bit in a relatively short period of time. I know people say he didn’t win a championship, but considering what he started with (and the money he had to spend), he had things lined up to pay dividends down the road.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Yes.
For all the Cub jokes that have grown in the last 25 years, and will increase until they win it all, that entire franchise truly WAS a joke when Green took over, and he rebuilt it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Jim is the GM because his superiors are not good baseball people either
and the team has been winning, thanks to increased spending.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
well, if Lou is calling out Hendry for not getting better players,
but he had a large say in what players Hendry got, then what the hell is Pineilla doing? I don’t disagree with you Al, but that makes little to no sense when looking at the whole situation
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
was listening to the score today and they said that lou would only step down in the offseason so he doesnt look as bad as mike hargrove
by jesus christos on Jun 25, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't Lou pretty much Out-Hargrove, Hargrove when he was in Tampa?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Hargrove quit in the middle of the season; Lou waited until the end of the year
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Jun 26, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
do you have the same thought process w.r.t. pitching coaches?
because one of the more interesting things I’ve noticed in the last month or so is no one is saying anything good about Rothschild. I mean the Cubs starting pitching has been tremendous for the most part and I don’t think I’ve heard anyone on here or in the MSM give Rothschild any credit.
I’m not saying he deserves any – I don’t understand much what pitching coaches are supposed to do, so I’m not going to pass judgement. I just think it’s very interesting that he got so much crap thrown at him when Cubs pitching was in the dumps yet he’s getting no praise when they excel.
So is it a total waste of time to lambaste the pitching coach when the staff underperforms?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Lou is stuck in a rut.
Maybe he has some quixotic faith in his veteran ballculb, maybe he is stuck in some inertial state of managing, but for whatever reason Lou just keep running against the same problems over and over again and he refuses to do things to shake things up. Isn’t the definition of insanity doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results?
Give me the Lou of the last couple of years and I would be happy. That guy was willing to change things in order to shake things up. He always seamed on top of his club, but this year he seams detached just waiting for different results.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Man, I thought this was gonna be about the same thing as the Soto post.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. - Dave Barry
I have a theory....
When Hendry fired Dusty, he knew he needed a “big name” manager to give the organization credibility and handle the big city media. He desperately needed Lou Piniella. In order to coax him out of retirement, Hendry had to promise Lou that he would have a huge voice in the construction of his roster.
What happened after Lou was hired in the fall of 2006? Sori was signed, T.R. was signed, Marquis was signed, DeRo was signed, Ramy was re-signed. The superstar quotient was up to four (Z, D-Lee, Sori, and Ramy). But, they got off to a bad start, so Lou needed some scapegoats. He looked around and conveniently found J.J., Barrett, Uncle Cliffy, and Izturis. Lou flipped his lid (and his hat), and threw them under the bus. The team rallied (with a lot of help from J.J.) and made the playoffs. Lou looked like a genius, but they were swept by the Snakes. So…
What happened in the fall of 2007? They got rid of the 2007 scapegoats, and even the replacement scapegoat — Jason Kendall. They added a fifth superstar (at least contract-wise) in Dome. They tried to bring in a sixth superstar (TPWSNBN) and get rid of the playoff scapegoat, DeRo. The team played well all year — winning 97 games — but they once again faded in the playoffs. Lou needed an excuse for the playoff meltdown (other than than the fact that he left Demp on the mound too long in game one), so Lou’s mantra became: WE NEED MORE LEFT-HANDED BATS!!!!! So…
What happend in the fall of 2008? Clear out the payroll so that Lou can have a sixth superstar in Gameboard. Out with team leaders DeRo, Woody, and Blanco. Out with left side depth Onedec. Out with innings eater Marquis.
So let’s look at the Opening Day 2009 roster:
Holdovers from the previous regime:
- D-Lee (1)
Holdovers re-signed during Lou’s watch:
- Z, Demp, Ramy (3)
FAs signed during Lou’s watch:
- Sori, Dome, Gameboard, RJ, Gathright, Aaron Inches, Lilly (7)
Players traded for on Lou’s watch:
- Heilman, Gregg, Vizcaino, Cotts, Harden (5)
Players Lou promoted from the minors:
- Riot, LBR, K. Hill, Soto, Mármol, Hoff, Guzman, Marshall (8)
Players taken via Rule 5 on Lou’s watch:
- Patton (1)
Lou has had a hand in procuring 24 out of the 25 players on the Opening Day roster. Hendry has written large checks for six superstars as well as Demp and Lilly. And the Cubs are a .500 team. Short of throwing Hendry under the bus (for listening to him too well), who can Lou blame?
I believe that the absence of a Mt. Vesuvius routine from Lou is due to the fact that there are no scapegoats left but himself.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jun 25, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Interesting...
…but what you don’t know is how much influence Piniella had in roster selection or whether Hendry agreed with him whole heartedly.
The moral of the story is this; a good GM doesn’t get into this mess, because he wouldn’t be scrambling to get new managers, sign FA’s and trade for this guy or that guy year in and year out. Sorry, but that ain’t on the manager, it falls squarely on the GM.
As I stated many times during the Dusty days – I gave at least 75% of the blame for the 04, 05 and 06 years to Hendry (where it belonged), but Hendry was like teflon like he usually is. People tend to forget that Hendry has had a hand in the organization since 1994, yet the latest manager is usually the one that gets the darts thrown at them (really amazing). In 2003, Hendry actually did his best job every putting the right MIX of players together (which was obviously by mistake), because he went back to the softball team approach in 2004. It wasn’t until the Trib gave him the check book, that they were able to put two division winners together, but it was also built like a house of cards.
Like I said, bring in any manager you want, as long as this type of decision making continues from the GM position, you will get more of the same.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I agree
that at least some (maybe a lot) of the blame must fall on Hendry’s shoulders. After all, the buck stops at his desk.
My point is that Lou has no one except for Hendry to throw under the bus right now. While Lou has never been shy about throwing players under the bus (see O’Neill, Paul; Jones, Jacque; or Ibañez, Raúl), I’m not sure he has the balls to do it to Hendry.
The original post was about why Lou doesn’t seem to show any fire or vent much in the media, and I believe that he simply has no convenient targets left like Michael Barrett.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jun 25, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Could be....
…but what does that really change?
The fact of the matter is some of the players are not performing as expected and some of the risks Hendry has taken have turned the wrong way.
They could hire a guy like Ozzie who will say all the players suck, or another like Baker who will say nothing but great things about each player and I don’t think it makes any difference in the world.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Hendry's legacy
Jim Hendry is not a top-tier GM, I think, but he has been a good one with flashes of genius. You call the back to back division winners a “house of cards,” but really, what modern team isn’t like that? Dynastic teams like the Braves of the 90s are rare.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I agree on the flashes of brilliance part...
…and there is no way you can be a top tier GM with the organizations track record of position player development, as that is the lifeblood of any organization.
I disagree that most good teams are build like a “house of cards”. If you go back and look at the teams with the best win/loss record over the last 10-15 years, most have solid player development systems that keep the pipeline full of talented players. If you don’t have an adequate flow of internal talent, you are constantly searching outside your organization for the major pieces of your puzzle, and you get stuck overpaying, being dissappointed, or at best having a short window to win anything. And no, let’s not look at the Yankees because they outspend anyone by so much, they can cover a lot of blemishes.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Maybe I'm just not thinking this through
but I’m not coming up with many teams in the past twenty years that were in the playoffs three years in a row.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
That's not what I said...
…I said clubs with the better won loss records over the last 10-15 years. When a team has a solid foundation, they tend to win for much longer stretches and give themselves a chance to make the playoffs and win championships. You also have teams that may have 2-3 years of winning, and than they absolutely tank for a while until the stars realign for them.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The Atlanta Braves?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I think Hendry still hasn't hired an above average manager.
And I think Hendry is from a mindset where the Manager dictates alot of roster decisions. Realistically, you don’t pay a Manager multi-millions to do nothing but follow orders, so you either have to be of the same philosophy (implying that the GM has to have a philosophy which I don’t see in Hendry other than old school loyalty) or you give your Manager the freedom to put his stamp on the team and the roster. You can win under both approaches, but the constant roster mis-use under Dusty & Lou is frustrating.
Overall, Hendry has been good for the Cubs. However, when you give so ch latitiude to yu Manager you need to choose one that’s above average. Tom me, his managerial choices and his poor farm system have been his negatives. But Hendry has made enough good decisions/acquisitions to field competitive teams.
Honestly....
…Hendry has hired two managers (Baker and Piniella) and the manager that was the closest match to his philosophy was Dusty Baker without question. Both Baker and Hendry believed in the aggressive (hack away) approach with the lineup and both are very player friendly (loyal to a fault) in their styles.
IMO, I believe McDonough had some say in hiring Piniella, just as he did with bringing Scotty Bowman to the Blackhawks. I’m not saying Hendry didn’t want Piniella, but I believe the forces were a little different when Lou was hired.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Now that's a very interesting point
David Kaplan has said that he believes firing Perry was a move Piniella was against. I find that very plausible.
He’s also said that his own personal belief is that the relationship between Hendry and Piniella isn’t as good as it once was. He stops short of saying it’s strained, but not as strong as it was.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd tend to agree with that...
…and I know for a fact (I know someone who hears things) that Piniella did not believe making Perry the scapegoat was justified. Since Hendry went ahead and made that move anyway, leads me to believe you can’t use the excuse the Hendry always goes along with what the manager wants in regards to player selection and is fully willing to make moves against their wishes.
Managers and GM’s don’t have to be best friends, and most of the time they aren’t. They do need to have a certain level of mutual respect and I don’t think that is a big issue with Piniella and Hendry. Both of these guys have been around long enouph to know the dynamics, and how to work within that framework. It always comes down to the ultimate decision and how that impacts the ballclub.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Something that Bruce Miles told me on his blog a while ago
Is that Hendry goes with what he wants over what the manager wants more often than people realize. It doesn’t look that way because of the types of players they’ve had under the two managers, but I tend to believe what Miles is saying – he doesn’t come across as someone trying to be the story.
Back to your McDonugh theory — an interesting parallel to Green. I think if Jim Finks had stayed as president of the team, Green would have been insulated from the corporate politics. That might have kept him on the job longer.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Your analysis of the Green/Finks thing is 100% accurate.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Miles...
…is the most reliable baseball writer in Chicago (in regards to writing what is accurate), and I would certainly trust most of what he prints. This is another reason to avoid placing accountability on Hendry by saying he is simply giving the manager the players they want.
On Finks, he was much more comfortable working with the corporate suites and had that skill in his favor. Green, on the other hand was a bit gruff and not the greatest politician. With a guy like Green, if your not willing to give him the leeway to capitalize on his baseball instincts/knowledge, than you are defeating the purpose. It’s too bad it went down the way it did.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
a season like the one we're currently going through will ALWAYS
strain the relationship between the manager and GM
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I doubt McDonough had anything to do with Bowman
Scotty Bowman’s son had been working with the Blackhawks for years prior to McDonough’s hiring. The Bowman family and the Wirtz family go way back.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 26, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
He may not have initiated...
…the process, but he certainly had a strong say in whether to move forward with it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I honestly doubt that
McDonough doens’t know anything about hockey. How could he evaluate whether Scotty Bowman was going to be good for the Blackhawks or not? McDonough knows sports marketing. If anything, he is simply getting out of the way and letting the hockey talent people do thier job.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 26, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I think your wrong...
…and it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out a Scotty Bowman would be an strong asset to the organization.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I don't disagree
But I think that goes to prove my point. The hockey talent side of the organization and the personal familial relationships between the WIrtz’ and the Bowman’s is what drove the hiring of Scotty Bowman. McDonough just didn’t get in the way.
Honestly, I wasn’t present when his hiring was discussed and we may just be discussing semantics. I just find it hard to believe that decades of professional relationships between the families and Stan Bowman working for the organization for 5 years before McDonough didn’t have a lot more to do with it than McDonough.
It was the family relationship that brought Stan into the organization in the first place. That’s not to say he hasn’t done his job well since getting hired. I don’t know why it wouldn’t hold true for Scotty as well.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you on Baker & Hendry and I can see clear evidence that Hendry has been deviating more
from the hack away approach. Under Baker I think the changes were more marginal OR at least from someone with no inside information, it appeared that the Hendry/Baker approach on offense was to first reduce Ks, then complain about lack of power, then emphasize speed and in the final year(s) it was an offense with little ability to get on base and little power. All that said, I give Hendry a lot of credit for moving away from that approach and I see it in signings like Fukudome and Bradley.
Given the strength of the Cubs being young starting pitchers I thought Baker was one of the worst choices he could select. That’s all done. I haven’t seen Pinella as being an improvement, other than in press conferences and newspaper quotes. However, if Hendry wasn’t completely sold on Pinella then it’s just a collective organization decision.
Overall, the Cubs have benefited from Hendry. I don’t see any point in discussing the merits of Baker anymore, I probably assign way too much blame to him.
Muchas gracias.
I’ll be in and out until I wrap up the three projects that I’m juggling.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
You've been missed
and I look forward to conversing with you again.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Forgot to mention...
…for all the abuse Dusty got for his “clog the bases” comment, it was also Hendry who was a big believer in this same philosophy. It was not until Lou got here that Hendry has shown some signs of acknowledging OBP.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
That's absolutely true.
It will be very interesting to see, if it happens, what types of players Hendry pursues in a post-Lou situation.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I pray that a post Lou situation is a post-Hendry situation as well
He really shouldn’t be allowed to hire a third manager over a 5 or 6 year span. That should speak volumes about the decision making coming higher up.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes and no
If Lou retires, that’s different than firing two managers that quickly
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Were you including Dusty in your "firing two managers" scenario?
Because he wasn’t fired. His contract just wasn’t renewed. Maybe there’s not much difference, but I think it’s a distinction worth noting.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It was definitely a distinction Hendry noted, too.
Because Dusty did not manage his last year with the long-term interests of the team at heart. There was cause to fire him and he was kept because Hendry wanted to honor their contract.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Yes, I was
And the end result is the same.
FWIW, the post I was responding to implied that, as well.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
True, but Dusty got the heat because he was dumb enough to say it in such a ridiculous
fashion. I saw Hendry articulate something very similar but it was voiced in a far more intelligent way
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with that...
…but it doesn’t change the fact that Hendry was completely onboard with that same philosophy, long before Baker got here.
In hindsight, Hendry’s job got saved when the Trib canned McPhail and shortly after announced the sale of the club. Even before the sale was announced, the word was out the club was going to be on the block, and that made it almost impossible for the club to recruit a legit baseball man to come in as President (so they made McDonough the guy). No one with a great track record was going to come here with the rumor of a pending sale looming in either a president or GM role, so they had to stick with guys from within. All this did was delay what needs to be fixed from a baseball organization stand point by 3-4 years, and thats what you have.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Rec'd for a very interesting take.
I don’t think, though, that Lou had total input on the year one acquisitions. I don’t think Lou was totally on board with either Soriano or DeRosa.
I’d also add that I think Lou may yet have faith in the team as assembled and has no fits to throw because he’s just waiting for the team to work out. I’m not certain that’s the case, but I think it’s possible.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I agree...
…and I think Lou is smart enouph to see the division is there to be had, and it could probably be done with less than 90 wins.
He also knows he can’t do it without Soriano warming back up, as Soriano’s hot September in 07 was a major reason they won than, and he had many hot streaks last year as well. Like it or not, this club has had a history of falling asleep when Soriano goes cold.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
if thats true, lou is one sneaky fox by making hendry look like the idiot!
by jesus christos on Jun 25, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see
what firing Lou accomplishes. Every time a manager is towards the end of his contract and the team doesn’t do well, everyone wants to fire the manager for not being fiery enough.
Lou not yelling isn’t why the team is hitting like .050 with RISP.
DEJESUS!!!
I was thrilled
when they hired Lou. But this season he does seem….not himself at all. Did anyone else hear him giving the lineup last night before the game ? He was almost confused, he named Fox at third and then jFontenot at third also and did that another time. I don’t know I hate to say he needs to go…but I’m beginning to wonder.
Firing the manager isn't always a panacea.
But ask the Rockies if it helped them this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Jim Tracy
had the balls to bench slumping 3B Garrett Atkins (and his $7M salary), insert Ian Stewart at 3B, and quit having Stewart share time with Clint Barmes at 2B. As a result of solidifying the infield, the guys got hot.
Would Brenly — if he were named manager — have the balls to bench Sori until his knee is healthy or Gameboard when he doesn’t hustle? Would he ask for a better SS and move Riot to 2B?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I guess I'm not convinced on Brenly
I’d like to see if we can find someone who isn’t a complete retread
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
The problem with hiring a brand new manager
(one with no previous ML managerial experience) in Chicago is that the media scrutiny in a large market like Chicago can be very difficult to handle. Don Wakamatsu was a great choice for Seattle, but he would not likely have fared very well in Chicago (or NY).
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Give it a year...
…or one bad losing streak, and they will be calling for Tracy’s head.
That’s just the way it works these days.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
mostly because Tracy is actually not a good manager
But the fact remains that a change at the top, helped the team
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
How do you know he's not a good manager?
If you simply go by won/loss records, anyone can say who is good and who isn’t. It goes a bit deeper than that in most cases (Torre’s record before he got to the Yankees is a good example).
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
For the record
I had a lot of complaints for Lou last year and a whole lot less this year. Part of that may just be that I haven’t been able to follow the team as closely this year.
Of course, saying that, people are well within their rights to conclude that I don’t know what I’m talking about if I criticize the managing of a NL-best team and don’t criticize a so-far .500 team.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
"Fire the manager" syndrome strikes Cub Nation again !!!!
EVERY three or four years like clockwork it is the same extreme swing of emotions for the manager. Yep. The silver bullet solution to ALL Cub woes is to fire the manager, then hire a new guy where the emotion meter breaks the scale on the positive end only to come crashing down a few years later.
And people wonder why the Cubs are on a 101 year losing streak and have the nickname Luvable Losers.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
So, I counted
and I only saw one comment here suggesting Lou should be fired.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
and it wasn't me
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
your right...
…but most comments are putting the blame at his feet, and that is just so short sighted.
I guess the Cubs have just had bad luck getting that perfect manager, and that’s why it’s been 100+ without a championship. It couldn’t be about having the wrong players.
I understand where this comes from, because most fans want to think there is an easy fix and placing blame on the manager is better than admitting the organization has deeper problems.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think there's a healthy debate about what blame should be at his feet...
… and debate is called for when a team is both under-performing and clearly constructed with so much of the manager’s input.
But in the context of this debate, only one comment has called for a firing, which is why BLou’s hyperbole shouldn’t be left uncountered.
For the record, I don’t see much that Lou could have done to alter where things stand once the season started.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
The PROBLEM with the Cubs is ongoing ineptitude and lack of strategy from the FRONT OFFICE
The PROBLEM with the Cubs is the front office leadership team. It has been this way ever since that fateful day when Dallas Green left.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
+1
You speak the truth young man. This team is short from the top down and has been for years. There really seems to be no plan or direction from the front office, just keep signing players and hope it works out. I fear the day of reckoning is at hand because the purse strings might be a bit tighter in the future and the team will be forced to use more players from the farm system. Are we prepared for that?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 25, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
46 years old qualifies me as a middle aged old man
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
You are younger than me so I can call you young man. Take it as a complement.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 25, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
No plan or direction?
There was an obvious plan and direction this off-season – get left-handed. We also decided, these past three seasons to turn positions over from veterans to farm products – SS to Theriot, C to Soto, and 2B to Fontenot. A rotation spot was opened up for Sean Marshall and we chose the home-grown Guzman over veterans in the ‘pen. You may not like those decisions or players, but your description of the Cubs’ strategy seems quite a bit off to me.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Getting left handed is not a plan. A plan consist of a muti-year description of
how you want to develop prospects and what type of player you want to have on your team. Even if your minor league players don’t end up starting for the big club, they ought to at least be able to be traded for established big-league talent. The recent years notwithstanding, the Cubs farm system has been pretty good at developing pitchers, but not so good at developing solid position players who can contribute to the team. They have been forced to overpay on the free agent market because they have been unable to develop position players. That is where this organization is lacking.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 25, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
But we also see a multi-year trend in the players acquired
where the Cubs have increasingly moved towards players with a patient hitting approach, even shifting Aramis Ramirez’ approach in that direction.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
If you are of the mind set that the Cubs farm system is in good shape, fine. I just
happen to think otherwise.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 26, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I was referring to when I mentioned the lack of a long range plan. I think
that the main reason for the Cubs spotty success over the years relates directly back to their lack of direction in acquiring and developing talent. If you agree with that, then we are on the same page.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 26, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Your on the right track...
…and there are two factors here; having a plan is important, as long as it is not flawed. Also, you can have a great plan on paper, but it still comes down to the skill of your people in being able to execute it properly. One without the other, is useless.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The Cubs farm system is ranked in the bottom third.
So, no one should say it is in good shape.
It has been underrated, however, I believe, especially when you consider the large number of home-grown players on 25-man now, helping the club win games.
As far as the question of whether or not there has been a good long-term plan wrt to the farm, I think there has been a general plan and adjustments made to counter the failures of the past. The general plan was to invest in high-ceiling, high-risk prospects. I think the flawed hitting approach that has been in the system is being corrected. I’m not sure that (and this is what appears to me to be a problem) the little weight given to makeup issues has been corrected, but it’s hard to judge the more recent drafts on that.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
The issue has been...
…a flawed philosophy and lack of baseball sense for many years. The recent spending spree has helped to hide these flaws from most, but they always creep back to the surface in time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think that's too broad.
It seems to me that Jim Hendry has done very well at identifying underrated veteran talent that can help the team and bringing that talent in to play. The penchant to bring in underrated talent has, on the other hand, led to some unbalanced rosters, especially in the first halves of seasons.
His farm system has been productive on the pitching side, but the five-tool position prospects have not panned out. That has been a problem.
This idea that “Spendry” is covered by his high payroll is overplayed in my view. We don’t know how he would manage a small market club. A big market club shouldn’t act like a small market club, in just the same way that the chip leader at a poker table should use his power to lean on players in a way he wouldn’t if he was short-stacked.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
We are not far off...
…and I have agreed many times that Hendry has made some wonderful trades over the years. In fact, he is better than most GM’s when it comes to two things; trades and being able to sign who he goes after.
With that said, a GM has the most impact on success by doing two things; building a strong farm system that does not pressure a club to rely on frequent FA signings or trades, and, having the apptitude of knowing how to construct a nice balanced roster. IMO, these two ares are where he comes up short, and you can’t be a good GM without being strong in these areas.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Didn't he just draft another toolsy player
in Brett Jackson? Yet one more guy that won’t be able to make consistent contact at the plate.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
Yep not one anything since he left
In 87
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Winning a WORLD SERIES is the only thing that matters for this franchise
Dallas Green was the absolute best thing to ever happen to the Cub organization. Your beloved Greg Maddux is a product of the Dallas Green era.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
I missed the part where Dallas won a WORLD SERIES
I am not knocking him but Cubs got farther in 03 then they did in 84. Green did indeed approve the drafting of Maddux but according to the scouts involved it understandably took a lot of convincing of the 6’5" ex pitcher that the scrawny kid from Vegas was worth it. Of course the FIRST pick that year was Drew Hall and he didn’t not turn out so hot.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
They did get farther in 2003...
… but not much. One out closer to the WS.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They actually WON a post season series
That to me was a big thing.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 26, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions
It was great, it was fun. It wasn't the ultimate goal.
Green and Goldsberry had built a pipleline in the minors that produced solid to above average (and in at least one case, HoF) players like Dunston, Girardi, Grace, Maddux, Moyer, Palmeiro, etc.
I would have liked to have seen what they could have accomplised given more time.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
You and me both...
…and combining a nice pipeline with an open checkbook, would have put the club in a position to be very selective in their acquisitions and be making most trades from a position of strength.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm convinced they'd have 2 or 3 trophies by now.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
but I just don’t like the Blou line that Hendry has done nothing and that 2003, ( as wall as 07 & 08) was nothing.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 26, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he was saying that there was no plan
Not that Hendry hasn’t accomplished anything.
I’d have to agree with him if that is indeed his point – there really is no apparent plan, other than spend money.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
No he has bashed Hendry for years
Basically saying all he does is throw money around and downplays all good moves as either luck or salary dumps by other teams. He also usually but not always gives Lou a free pass. I have no problem with saying
Hendry made huge mistakes this season ( and in the past) but the post was actually questioning why “Puffy” has seemed so out of it while the team is in such a struggle.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 26, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll have to take your word for it
I’ve only been around here about 1 1/2 years.
And I do wonder about Piniella’s demeanor, too. I wonder if some of it is unhappiness with Hendry’s moves.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
You might be confused
as he has gone through a few names but he has bashed Hendry regularly this year as well.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 26, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I remember MBDNIU
Wasn’t here for Blue Mike.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
And Hendry DESERVES criticism this year
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Not saying he doesn't
but so does Lou and Hendry is not an idiot ( both of which are positions Blou and his previous incarnations disagree with).
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 26, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Hendry is no idiot...
…and he has some nice qualities. But, what he doesn’t have are the qualities that are geared towards building a solid organization that is in position for long term success.
I have said before, if there was a way to have him specialize in negotiating trades and FA signings, he has significant value. The problem is, he does not have the skills to be running the entire baseball operations, and his skills on the trade/FA front have kept him afloat, while the foundation of the organization has sunk.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
See I think you keep going too far.
Hendry is not a top tier GM, but he has brought success to this team and he built a team last year that could have won it all, had things tipped a little different here or there. That was a good team last year.
I wonder if Hendry would agree with you that the farm is the “foundation” of the team.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
You don't think...
…a good farm system is an important foundation for long term success?
It allows you to keep payroll down and be SELECTIVE in your FA signings
It allows you to teach guys a certain way to play from the get go.
It allows you to use young talent as trade bait to acquire ML talent to fill immediate holes.
Without a good pipeline of talent from the farm, the major league club is in constant scramble mode – with trades, FA signings to fill holes.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
No, you misunderstand.
I personally would invest more in the farm system and demand better accounting of the investment. I would see it as a foundation for the team.
I wonder if Hendry sees it that way or if he sees it differently.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Oh boy...
…for his sake, I sure as hell hope he understands the importance here.
I would be shocked if he didn’t, I just don’t think he has the skills to get it where it needs to be. Remember, he was in charge of player development in some form from 1994-2001, so his fingerprints have been on the farm for a long long time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think there are other ways to look at the farm system.
I think you can plan to make it the foundation for your pitching staff, but plan to build the offense through other means. Then there’s the mirror image of that.
You can simply use it for trade fodder.
You can see it having a supporting cast (rather than a foundational cast), where supporting players are provided, but stars are still acquired elsewhere.
Having said all that, in the Lou years, Jim has used his farm system in every one of those ways.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
honestly Jessica, what was the last trade that wasn't an obvious salary dump
that Hendry has pulled off in our favor?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Well if you asked Blou
He would actually say Hardin. Nearly everyone thought it was brilliant at the time. As for me personally given how bad Marmol and sadly Wood have been I would have reluctantly say Gregg for Ceda ( who I believe is injured) would qualify. Not many trades are going to net you A-Ram
or D Lee for junk so we got a little spoiled.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 26, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Harden was a salary dump...
… although it also worked out well player-wise.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The trade for Nomar was no salary dump
and a very good trade.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
What's the obsession with calling out this apparent lefty obsession?
Other than Fontenot replacing Derosa at second, where has this roster been stacked with “all the lefties” in any truly relevant places that differ from last year?
Last year, we platooned a lefty (Edmonds) with a righty (Johnson) in center, and put a lefty (Dome) in right. This year we’re platooning a lefty (Dome) with a righty (Johnson again) in center, and a switch hitter (Bradley) in left.
Hoffpauir (lefty) replaced Ward (lefty). Wash.
Gathright (lefty) replaced Pie (lefty). Wash.
Our BACKUP catcher is lefthanded, replacing our righthanded one. Was this really ever going to seriously hurt the team? Same goes with replacing backup MI Cedeno (righty) with Miles (lefty). We dumped a bad player to get another bad player (who, as it turned out, is even worse).
Yeah, yeah, it’s unfortunate that Lou and Jim thought Font was ready to play second full time, which in turn saved us money. Bad move. But this idea that Lou’s “obsession” with getting MORE lefties has killed this team is ridiculous. Point the finger at Soriano, Soto, and Bradley.
by shoemile on Jun 25, 2009 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Amen brother
There are a handful who passionately adhere to the extreme over-simplification that all the Cubs’ woes can be chalked up to the conscious strategy to get left-handed. It’s a total crock.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
I think you forgot Milton in that equation.
The Lou & Jim’s obsession for a more left handed line up removed Derosa and added Milton. Now of course it could have been Dunn or Ibanez but that is who we got.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, this word "obsession"
Milton is right there in that equation. He replaced the lefty Dome, who replaced the lefty Edmonds. Font replaced DeRosa. He saved us money, so that we could get a big bat for right field, someone who would put up better numbers than DeRosa. We chose Bradley. Thus far, we were wrong. Still, like you said, it could’ve been Dunn or Ibanez, both lefties, both expensive.
raul ibanez doesnt make that much more money than bradleys making
by jesus christos on Jun 25, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Well yeah, that's my point
That I didn’t word so well. Bradley, Dunn, and Ibanez all cost a large amount of money. Money that we didn’t have unless we traded DeRo.
That's hardly the case.
DeRo was making 5 M. We paid Miles half of that and DFA’d the other half in Gaudin. If you can manage to trade one of Vizcaino/Gaudin and you don’t sign Miles, you have the same financial flexibility as you did by trading DeRosa.
Alternatively, you could not trade for Gregg, keep Wuertz, and let Marmol close.
Alternatively, you can wait out Dempster…
Alternatively…
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 25, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alright, fair enough
There are other alternatives to save some money. This is the one we chose. Unfortunately, it hasn’t worked out.
that post is one of the better examples of just how poor Hendry's offseason was
People act as though the moves we made were the only ones we could have. It simply isn’t the case
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 26, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Except
and here’s the irony –
I think it was a smart risk to trade DeRosa and give Fontenot a shot. Fontenot was awesome last year. The problem was in failing to acquire a legitimate backup to play SS-3B.
For all the complaining about not letting the farm be a foundation for the team, when Jim Hendry shipped off DeRosa and gave the guy who hit like Chase Utley in half a season the chance to play everyday, he was doing just that. Sometimes these moves work out. Sometimes they don’t. And sometimes they look like they aren’t working out in June, but do work out by September.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
It sounds like hindsight now
But I was never sold on Fonty as an everyday player. He was successful last year partially because he was used well.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe.
We’ll see. Having to adjust to 3B in-season was definitely going to take a toll on his hitting. Additionally, Fontenot should not be in the lineup v. LHP, but Lou has used him that way an awful lot.
I hold out hope that Fontenot could be a very valuable 2B v. RHP.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
He might be better suited as a utility player
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 26, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Revisionist history
Jim and Lou both said they wanted to get more left-handed, that this was a driving motivation in the off-season. They said it. It’s real.
I agree that it’s too much to blame all the problems of the current season on the leftylust. but then I’m not sure anyone is arguing that.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Yeah, they did want to get more left handed
They did so by adding ONE more lefty to the lineup. What I’m countering is that we were “obsessed” to add “all these lefties”.
aaron miles is a switch hitter and gathright is a lefty
by jesus christos on Jun 26, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Gathright replaced another lefty, Pie
And Miles replaced Cedeno. Still, I wouldn’t really call either move significant, as neither were meant to be regular starters.
Two words
he’s old.
Hendry bringing him in as manager over younger candidates was another bad mistake in a long line of them.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
It seemed like it came down to Piniella vs Girardi
Or at least that’s how the media portrayed it, and thus fan discussion went that way. I was pretty indifferent on Piniella, but I was definitely anti-Girardi. I didn’t think he’d do so well with a veteran club with high paying players. Obviously we’ll never know what Girardi would’ve done in the same situation, but I’m happy with what we chose if those were the two options.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
MLB 12 The Show Marlins Park Trailer, complete with the monstrosity and the fish. Here's the link...
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Photo: Padres fan regrets letting mother capture moment with Trevor Hoffman
- Marlins agree to unretire No. 5 for Logan Morrison, who will honor his father’s favorite player
- Weatherman Derek Holland does Dallas TV
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
