Milton Bradley Must Go
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 8:00 AM CDT
in News
436 comments
Had there been no incidents in yesterday's win over the White Sox, I probably wouldn't have posted anything this morning -- the first post today would have been the preview thread at 1 pm CDT.
But given the passion exhibited in last night's recap regarding Milton Bradley -- and I commend all of you for keeping it on topic and not making anything personal -- I felt it was important to have a post up this morning where discussion on this issue can continue, because this appears to be a real turning point for this team, just as the Michael Barrett/A.J. Pierzynski brawl did the same thing two years ago, coincidentally in a game at the Cell.
First, I continue to stand by the two things I posted last night regarding things I have heard about Milton Bradley. I learned these a couple of weeks ago but decided to sit on them at the time, only posting them last night because I felt they were relevant to yesterday's incident. No, I can't and won't post names. Believe what you will, but I have absolutely no doubt I was told the truth.
There's another take on this situation this morning from Chris DeLuca in the Sun-Times:Veteran Alfonso Soriano, who doesn't get the credit he deserves for being a true team leader, said he had never seen anything like it during his nine-year career. And then Soriano -- always one of the first Cubs in the clubhouse -- put the onus on Bradley to shape up or ship out.
"That's my first time to see a manager fighting with a player; get mad with a player,'"Soriano said. "Sometimes you can get mad, but not like that. It's something new for me every day.
"We are 25 players, and we have to be on the same page. If he is not 100 percent to help the team win, we don't need him. If he's 100 percent and he wants to play, he's more than welcome."
That means Bradley must arrive today at U.S. Cellular Field earlier than usual -- which means, don't be the last position player to wander into the clubhouse. He must put the team first -- for the first time in his career. He must accept responsibility for his selfish actions -- instead of blaming everyone else.
You can criticize Soriano all you want, justifiably, for his play on the field. But one thing you cannot say is that Soriano has the wrong attitude. Soriano's a leader, and he is absolutely correct. I have a lot more to say, so there's more below the fold.
I'm also posting again about this because of two articles written by Cubs beat writers, one by Paul Sullivan, the other by Gordon Wittenmyer. I posted this from Sullivan's article in the comments last night, but felt it deserved further attention:
Bradley blamed himself for his poor start (.237 batting average), and conceded he didn't realize how "overwhelming" it would be to be a focus of attention on the North Side.
"People are always watching and looking at everything I'm doing," he said. "My personality is more of a guy [who likes to] go unnoticed -- to show up, do my job and go home, and really not have a whole lot of hoopla about it.
"I'm really not a guy who's seeking any attention. I'm not seeking to be noted, like 'Milton Bradley and the Chicago Cubs.' I don't want that. I just want to be part of a group and fit in and just love and be loved. That's the basis of what I am.
"Maybe years ago I might have thought I wanted all this, but I really don't want all the attention."
He didn't want the attention? Exactly where did he think he was signing? The Yukon? The Cubs get more attention than perhaps any team in baseball save the Yankees and Red Sox! They have been on national cable for 30 years and have a national fan base! Yes, I know -- he played in "major markets" before (Oakland, Dallas, Los Angeles). But neither the Athletics nor the Rangers have the huge and rabid fan bases that the Cubs do, and in laid-back LA, the Dodgers don't get the kind of scrutiny that the Cubs do, nor are they under the pressure to win that the Cubs are. Didn't Bradley think of this? Didn't Jim Hendry do his due diligence regarding Bradley's personality and whether it would fit in the pressure cooker that is Cubs baseball?
Bradley was, in some sense, signed to be "Milton Bradley and the Chicago Cubs", given the desire for LH-hitting production and the dollars he signed for. All of this could have and should have been known to him last December. I have no doubt that Bradley wants very badly to succeed and perform well. The "passion", however, that he supposedly brings to this team isn't the kind of "passion" we need. Instead, it's a daily soap opera of one kind or another. If Bradley wanted to "show up, do [his] job and go home, and really not have a whole lot of hoopla about it", he should have signed with Pittsburgh, Kansas City or Florida, places where baseball is an afterthought.
The second point, brought out in Wittenmyer's article, is more disturbing and more direct:Piniella ordered Bradley to the clubhouse and followed him -- with Carlos Zambrano joining him -- through the tunnel from the dugout.
According to sources, Piniella then shouted at Bradley, "You're not a player! You're a piece of sh--!"
Bradley then said, "I have too much respect for you to respond to that," a source said.
Presuming the above exchange is true -- and I have no doubt that it is -- there are a couple of things I'd like to say. First, a manager really shouldn't say that about one of his players. Bradley's reaction, when he surely could have exploded and made the situation far worse, does give me some respect for him.
But keep this in mind: two years ago after the Barrett/Pierzynski incident, it's clear to me that Lou likely went to Jim Hendry and said, "Get him off my team." And two weeks later, Hendry obliged him.
It's unlikely Milton Bradley can be traded anywhere at this point, unless the Cubs are willing to eat large chunks of his remaining contract. As some say, however, he is a "sunk cost". Maybe this is the thing to do -- admit this was an enormous mistake, see if any team will send a face-saving prospect or two, eat most of the deal, and move on. Perhaps Adam Dunn could be acquired to play right field the rest of the year -- honestly, I don't care how bad his defense is, at least he'd be getting on base and hitting home runs (and you could run Reed Johnson, Ryan Freel or Kosuke Fukudome out there the last couple innings for defense). Or send Jake Fox out there once Aramis Ramirez returns -- Fox has shown he can be at least capable in the field.
If not, then the Cubs are stuck with Hendry's bad decision, and hopefully can go out and reclaim Mark DeRosa to get another bat in the lineup -- yes, the Cubs are interested and have inquired about DeRo, says Wittenmyer. For me, I will not boo Bradley unless he makes an egregious on-field mistake (such as tossing another ball into the stands with less than three outs). I'll cheer his positive contributions as long as he wears the blue pinstripes. I have no doubt that he wants to win and do well, very badly. The problem is: I don't think he knows how, how to be part of a team, how to channel that passion and aggressiveness to the team.
And I will expect nothing from him. Because that's what he has given us so far.
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This was doomed from the start
So I dont lay too much blame on Bradley himself, my biggest problem has been his lack of production. He’s obviously incredibly talented, as his 08 numbers prove, but this was just a short sighted move by Hendry for a variety of reasons.
He admittedly likes to lay low, but given the city, the deal and being hailed as the solution to all of our nefarious right handed evils, this was not the best situation for him, and all the blame should lay at the feet of Mr. Hendry. He’s the one who blindly pursued Bradley, seemingly without even giving a thought to cheaper, healthier options like Abreu.
Im sure we all, and Hendry himself, expected some shenanigans from Milton, but the lack of production is a complete surprise and its exacerbating all the other negative aspects of this deal and this situation.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There's enough blame to go around...
But what did Hendry and Pinella think they were getting when they signed Bradley? This is the type of player the Cubs don’t need. Yes, he brings “passion”, but at what cost? Sandberg played with passion, but a passion coupled with class, personal responsibility and a respect for his teammates, opponents and the game. Far too many of today’s players show little understanding of these concepts. I’m happy to see Sori starting to step up in this regard.
by dedfishflote on Jun 27, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel like there's more to the story.
As Phil Rodgers points out in his “”http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-27-rogers-cubs-white-sox-chijun27,0,6907986.column" target="new">On Baseball" column, players have done a lot worse what Bradley did yesterday. So what’s the issue? Why are we ready to get rid of him? Why would Lou call him a piece of sh*t? I’m seriously asking.
This line from a movie, television show or other piece of popular culture pretty much sums up my entire personality.
by ScottieG33 on Jun 27, 2009 8:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Darn it
This line from a movie, television show or other piece of popular culture pretty much sums up my entire personality.
by ScottieG33 on Jun 27, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're absolutely right.
There has to be more to this story. My first reaction to Al’s double-post, now taken to an extreme level (and calling it “extreme” doesn’t mean it isn’t right or appropriate), was “Wow – this seems overboard.”
If all Bradley has done is
1) show frustration at his failure;
2) fail to be a team-player in attitude;
3) fail to be professional off the field
then he’s still doing his job on the field and that is the most important thing.
My thought is that either the Cubs are overreacting or they must think that something else he is doing is affecting his performance on the field. I have speculated that the real problem here is that Bradley is playing injured in order to get his third contract year to activate. That means that Hendry’s mistake was not so much signing Bradley, as giving him an incentive clause. If we were going to go with Bradley, we should have gone all in on him.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not doing his job on the field
how can you suggest that? He’s atrocious at the plate, given his contract and supposed role in this lineup
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's absolutely wrong to say that he is atrocious at the plate.
He’s getting on base. He’s not hitting for power. He’s not doing what we hoped he’d do. He’s not atrocious and there are a lot of options much, much worse than Milton Bradley if all we’re talking about is on-field production.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just like the rest of this team
Not hitting with RISP.
by daeviant on Jun 27, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course there are worse options
Thats not the point, there are worse options for every player on the team. He was brought into be a run producer in the middle of the order, which he isnt doing either b/c of inability to stay on the field, or as we’re seeing, an inability to even hit a fastball. If all you want out of your 4 hitter is OBP, then we couldve gotten Abreu on the cheap.
You said in another comment that he’s do for a break out month, his career numbers would suggest that is July, so I hope thats the case, but has he ever struggled this much? Has he ever had this much pressure b/c of a contract and a city? And he’s hardly ever been an everyday outfielder either, so I dont have faith that his career archs will bear fruit this season.
I just remember how bad Beltran was his first year in NY and hope that Bradley will better than this
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My theory has been that he's playing injured
in a way he wouldn’t in the past just to get his 3rd year to activate. I’m hopeful he’ll play 75 games and then get the rest he needs to come back and be productive.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that doesnt bode well
If he’s pressing to get that clause activated and its causing his poor play, and might prolong any injury he may have now.
Im just so confused/frustrated by Hendrys game plan this offseason
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would mean that he is putting himself above the team
which is exactly been Bradley’s M.O. He is a cancer and not much of a ball player for this team.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
by DTJchris on Jun 27, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Further, if he's hurt and cannot produce he needs to go on the DL...
… instead of simply piling up game appearances to make his incentive.
The Cubs didn’t sign him to draw walks and get on base. They signed him to be a middle-of-the-order, 30 HR, 100 RBI guy. There was scant evidence he could do that before now, and there is NO evidence he can do that now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they signed him to hit 30 home runs and drive in 100 runs
than Hendry is more incompetent that I originally thought. And that’s saying something.
I’m fairly certain they often talked about one of the reasons they got him was his OBP and his batting eye. That would mean that they did at least in part sign him to walk and get on base. Which means he was still a bad signing, but not completely ignoring his career numbers which never once hinted he could hit 30 home runs
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 27, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then they made another mistake, because...
… the power, RBI guy is what they needed.
Remember, Bradley was hitting fourth a lot of the time before Ramirez got hurt. That’s a RBI batting order position. If they wanted him for his OBP, maybe he should have been hitting second.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where does Kevin Youkilis bat?
aka the “Greek God of Walks”?
(My point being that guys who get walks are not only positioned in the #1 or #2 slot. Also, to preempt, last year was the first year that Youkilis even approached 30HRs.)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny switch him and bradley
and our line up would make more sense
by Glacier on Jun 27, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I utterly disagree with this statement...
The Cubs have and had plenty of “power, RBI guys.” Lee, Soto, Ramirez, Soriano (when he isn’t in the tank) are a formidable power core. What they needed was a guy with numbers like Bradley had last year. Mid-level power, high batting average, OPB. How many times late in the year last year did we see one the “power,RBI” guys come up when all that was really needed was a single, not a homer.
Ladies and gentlemen! It's 1985 all over again, but this time the offense goes to hell!
by Ross on Jun 27, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou
If thats what he said he should be more at fault for this then Milton is. That comment should not have been said and i cannot believe Lou would even say something like that. Does anyone Agree? Im not saying Milton didnt do anything wrong but come on saying what Lou did thats just wrong.
by Aramis Ramirez on Jun 27, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It's not the first time
When he was with the Reds, he told Rob Dibble in the clubhouse, “You don’t want to be treated like a man!” Of course, Dibble was a drama magnet too.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 27, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's an astounding statement
one that can only be explained by ongoing issues leading Lou to be angry about much more than just what happened yesterday.
We don’t know enough context here.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to clarify that when I say the statement might be explained
I still think it’s poor form at the very least. I also think it very likely that there’s no appropriate explanation that excuses Lou.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has to be...
…much more than just yesterday, I agree.
One thing is pretty clear about Lou’s time in Chicago, and that is he has made a concerted efforted to be less volitale. I have a feeling this was a build up of how Bradley has gone about his business since joining the Cubs, and Lou had enouph. Everyone is asking him to be “old Lou”, well, you just got a little taste of it.
Regarding what he reportedly said to Bradley, it has happened before in prof sports, and they can put it behind them if they choose to.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou should go!
I agree. The manager has no place addressing a player as such in front of the team. Keep it behind closed doors. That lard-ass manager who is ‘batting’ worse than Bradley and Soriano is the one who needs to go. I give most of the credit to Lou for making stupid decisions that have cost more close games this year than any of the players. There isn’t a game that goes by that I wonder ‘why did Lou do that’ or ‘what is Lou waiting for’?
Both Bradley and Sori are in long slumps and making similar mistakes. It seems that Sori gets a pass for his mistakes and apparent lazy playing while Bradley gets called out. While not supporting Bradley’s actions, I can somewhat understand that he seems to be blamed for the teams failures while Sori gets the glory.
Just one example: Sori struck out 3 or 4 times a couple weeks ago (several runners in scoring position), misplayed a couple fly balls, then hits a home run in extra innings and is made out the hero. If he had done his job in the early part of the game there would have been no need for overuse of the bullpen and a hero in extras. It just seems to me that of the two players, Bradley gets blame and Sori glory for very similar on field performances.
by txtom on Jun 27, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano...
Doesn’t cry to and about the media and blame others for his slump. Soriano got us to the playoffs the last two years, he gets a pass and the benefit of the doubt that he will break out of this.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 27, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
show me where
Bradley has blamed anyone but himself for his slump.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true, while he has blamed himself for his slump, he's cryed about almost literally everything
else. Have you heard another player in baseball this year complaining about the fact that he’s not “close” to his teammates?
Maybe Bradley just opens up too much. He seems to be too forthcoming, and when you pair that with his struggles, he comes off as crying and whining about everything
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 27, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is it?
Maybe Bradley just opens up too much
So either he doesn’t talk enough with the media? Or he talks too much with the media? I think someone should alert him to which one it is, so that he can work on making everyone happy in the future…
(Btw, Wandering…this isn’t necessarily merely a reply to you, since I have no idea if you’ve ever criticized him for not talking to the media. But I imagine you’ll grant that that is a pretty common criticism of him by many people).
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't directly...
…but the dude clearly has a “I’m a victum” type of persona about him. Trust me, that wears thin real fast in a locker room/club house.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It appears to have already done so, in less than half a season.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Somehow I don’t have an issue with Lou saying what he did. Because something tells me there have been underlying clubhouse issues and disagreements forcing Lou to say that. Considering how relaxed he’s appeared all year in his managerial approach, I find it hard to believe he would’ve just started spewing the venom without some sort of incentive behind it.
And I don’t get a very good feeling from Bradley saying “I have too much respect for you” blah, blah, blah. I just get this vibe that he just said that to end the argument, to make himself look better. That just seems to be his personality his entire career.
I hope the Cubs can trade for DeRosa and somehow find a way to trade for Adam Dunn. I too wanted Dunn over the offseason (after Ibanez), and personally I think we’d be so much better off with that. Christ, I think we’d be fine if DeRo were just the everyday right fielder.
Still, good to know the team is taking SOME FORM of action on this. I couldn’t stand Milton Bradley from the start and it’s just gotten worse.
by ZachenFoot on Jun 27, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Christ, he can't ever win
If he responds negatively to insults, etc., he’s a horrible human being. If he keeps his cool and handles the situation maturely, he’s just trying make himself look good.
This nonsense is getting old really fast.
by Pre on Jun 27, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Have you ever
followed the guy throughout his career? He always plays the “woe is me” card, no matter what situation he’s in. I don’t know, I have a very hard time buying into anything he says because he’s a headcase, it’s simple as that.
And it’s not just since he became a Cub. I never liked him from the start, and ever since he proved to be such an incredible pain in the ass, I can’t trust a word he says with sincerity. It’s not my problem. It’s his fault for doing the things he’s done in the past, and yesterday’s nonsense doesn’t help his cause either.
by ZachenFoot on Jun 27, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said.
Ladies and gentlemen! It's 1985 all over again, but this time the offense goes to hell!
by Ross on Jun 27, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Lou said...
…should have no negative bearing on what this club does going forward, especially if Bradley had it coming (which all indications are showing he did). Maybe, part of the problem with him is he has been babied his career, and allowed to act like one. Sometimes calling someone to task can wake their ass up a little bit, instead of enabling them.
This isn’t an office job atmosphere, it is a major league clubhouse, and rough words can be used often. You just deal with it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
100%. He’s the manager and if someone refuses to have their head in the game, he needs to wake them up, even if he has to take it to that extreme.
I don’t see why anyone should have an issue with what he said, at all.
by ZachenFoot on Jun 27, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
if Lou was more consistent in his handling of players without their heads in the game it might convince me that Lou didn’t plan the attack on Bradley. Zambrano and Soriano have both had times where their head was up their butt, yet no criticism from Lou.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 27, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
Is baseball played on a different planet? Cause calling anyone “a piece of shit” is dehumanizing, and no supervisor should ever say that to a (subordinate) person.
by Seattle Mike on Jun 27, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pinella is a colorful but incompetent manager
he sets the tone with his tantrums, and people like Bradley and Z do the same and self destruct. Ditka, Guillen…same model. Chicago seems to like it, but it doesn’t work.
by seesdifferent on Jun 29, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, was that a trick statement??
“Unfortunately, I just think it’s a lot of ‘Oh, you did this to my colleague,’ or ’We’re going to get him any time we can. As soon as he gets two strikes, we’re going to call whatever and see what he does. Let’s try to ruin Milton Bradley.”
That took like all of 5 seconds.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 27, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano is a prima donna and of little value
he has a few gaudy HR stats, but most of those HR’s are bases empty. He can’t hit good pitchers. His RBI numbers are pathetic, he is a joke in the outfield and on the bases. Not to mention that the Cubs could have had two or more actual GOOD players for what they pay him. And his salary will hobble the team in the future. And he refuses to bat 6th where he should be. All that was clear when he was with NY, the Rangers and Washington. Cubs should try to get rid of him now.
Really he should be in the AL. Who needs hitters? Aha…the White Sox!!!
by seesdifferent on Jun 29, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think with all of the
bullshit, suspensions, injuries, AND poor on-the-field production, the “insubordination” (Lou IS his “supervisor”) was too much for him to take. I understand it. Maybe not agree with it – but who knows how another guy would have handled it in the same situation. Firing Lou now does nothing, imo.
However – I’m happy to see him go after this year.
by The E-Man on Jun 27, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in less he was specifically ordered not to do exactly the same thing that Carlos did
it’s not insubordination
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 27, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
firing Piniella is not an option
first, let me state that I don’t think the Cubs should do that, even though I think Piniella should never have said that statement to Bradley in front of a co-worker (if true)
However, that being said, there is no way the Cubs can fire Piniella now, as it would look like they are letting the player(s) run the manager out of town.
by TC Cubby on Jun 27, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do we know...
What Bradley said before all that? We have no idea, only speculation and rumors. Maybe he said something about Lou, about the team, about something to incense Lou like that.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 27, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fairly certain if Bradley had dropped a bomb, before Lou dropped his
the “sources” would have let us know. Bradley actually came off looking better than Lou in that exchange.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 27, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
We don’t know what happened before Lou supposedly said that, but the most telling sign to me that the s was about to hit the fan was Zambrano going with Lou. That tells me that Bradley either said something really out of line in the dugout, or there’s been issues behind the scenes that made Z think he should go with “just in case.”
by Ryjo on Jun 27, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This wasn't an isolated incident.
Lou hinted in his press conference that this was the proverbial “camel’s back” straw.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
specific to Bradley or the team in general?
I got the impression that Lou was pretty much fed up with all the antics going on, not just stuff with Bradley.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 27, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounded like it was specific to Bradley...
… since that was where the questioning was aimed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may disagree
but your logic of the aiming of the question does make sense. I can’t imagine Piniella being disgusted at [fill in the blank] for their lack of respect.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 27, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree
i think he was referring to the team. We don’t know though so hopefully we find more out today
by Glacier on Jun 27, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're wrong
because if it was specific to just Bradley, I would take that to mean that Lou is focusing on Bradley and seemingly turning a blind eye to the rest of the team. Which would disappoint me. Lou needs to crack down on all the offenders. Maybe he has behind the scenes – I hope so.
Bradley’s actions are clearly front and center here, but he’s not the only one – others on this team have shared the immaturity stage all season long.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 27, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have?
Besides Z, who?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Dempster too.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster slugged the Gatorade cooler.
Once. I think we can cut him some slack due to his family issues, don’t you?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the two were related, of course he gets slack.
I don’t think they were though. Regardless it was immature in the sense that he has to be smarter with his body. What happens if he breaks his hand (yes I know it was his left), but still…not smart.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster lashes out because he was pissed about his crappy performance
Milton does the same thing. What they heck is the difference?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 27, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like Marmol has
and didn’t somebody besides Z take a good whack at the Gatorade machine? Was it Dempster?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 27, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and it's not exactly immaturity in the dugout
but there seem to have been plenty of boneheaded plays on the field this year that have been met with less than a little “fire” (for lack of a better phrase) from Lou.
What I’m trying to say is Lou seems to have run a pretty loose ship this year – looser than I would have liked given the results. I’d still rather have him than say, a Bobby Cox, but I wouldn’t have minded if Lou had taken a page from Cox’s book on occasion and addresses some of the on-field miscues a little more forcefully.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 27, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never got
that impression.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 27, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you've...
…got something there. I have no doubt Lou has taken plenty of shit before he had enouph.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I’m a huge Lou fan, but if he said that to Bradley he was totally out of line no matter what MB did to provoke him. It’s unprofessional and does not help the situation in any way. I give MB kudos for his response.
That aside, l agree that MB was a trainwreck from the moment Hendry contemplated signing him.
by Emelie on Jun 27, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree 100%
Never thought I’d say this, having become a huge Lou fan after moving to Seattle, but if that’s how he treats players, then I’d say the problem’s with Lou. Get him out of here and get the right manager for this group of players.
by Seattle Mike on Jun 27, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Switch
I think you’re mixing up the Barrett/AJ brawl with the Barrett/Zambrano dugout incident. But I still completely agree with everything. Sad that between Bradley, Abreu, Dunn, and Ibanez that we got by far the worst left handed hitting outfielder.
Neifi, we hardly knew ye.
by Krande on Jun 27, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we coulda had burrell
sooo could be worse
by Glacier on Jun 27, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al ...
the AJ/Barrett fight happened in 2006.
Barrett was gone after the Barrett/Z incident in 2007.
by elgato on Jun 27, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
The point about Lou’s involvement remains the same.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, after the incident in 2007,
Lou went to Hendry, and said, referencing Barrett, “Get him off my team”? Wish he could do that with MB, though I don’t believe calling him a piece of s### in front of the other team members was necessary. I believe that should have happened with no one else around.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can understand Lou's frustration, though.
A lot of people wanted to see “fire” from Lou. Well, you got it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We did.
It wasn’t just the Barrett/Zambrano incident that hurt Michael Barrett in 2007.
There was also this incident just less than two weeks later, which also hurt Barrett’s career with the Cubs.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seven days later, he was gone, traded to San Diego.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barrett...
…was completely clueless, and needed to go long before he did. I have no doubt the 07 doesn’t win the division with him still behind the plate.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think that the Barrett/Zambrano fight
Was the end of Barrett’s career here. He had had some success, but that fight was overboard. And, of course, he punched AJ in 2006.
I didn’t believe all the stories in 2007 which said that Zambrano and Barrett were fine after the fight, either.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 27, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade him as PTBNL
Can we send him to a team that owes us a PTBNL? To complete the trade they made with us, they have to take Gameboard.
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jun 27, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't work that way
Whenever there is a PTBNL trade, there’s a list of agreed on players that could become the PTBNL.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be pretty funny though
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't work that way. The other team has to agree to take him. No team will
take him now with this incident and his salary.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 27, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with this idea that Bradley is untradeable.
I’m not convinced we’d want to trade him, but if we wanted to, I think we might find a taker. It wouldn’t be an equal trade, but I think something could get done.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, who do you think is going to make a trade for him now? No contending team wants the
headache and rebuilding teams don’t want to take on his salary. The Cubs are a business and Milton is an asset. You don’t give away assets when their value is at the lowest point. If the Cubs really want to move him, his value needs to be raised so that they can get a decent return. Hendry has already paid several players to leava town, he can’t do it with a contract like Milton’s.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 27, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs do indeed give up assets when they are at their lowest.
In fact, they have a clear history of destroying the public image and trade value of OF superstars before shipping them out.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said the didn't do it. I said they are a business and it's not good business to
get rid of an asset when it’s value is at it’s lowest point.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 27, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
I’ve been saying this all season, as we repeatedly see calls for the team to trade players who are underperforming.
BUY LOW SELL HIGH.
You will NOT build a winning baseball team by shipping out players at low value. You won’t get what they are worth in return, you’ll end up paying for them in some capacity anyways, and you’ll handicap your ability to make deals later. Plus, you’ll give the team a reputation with players as a place that isn’t great to play.
FIX Bradley, don’t ditch him. Maybe he needs some anger management (although the comment from Lou seems to feed in to the “he’s frustrated with himself and still trying to be a good teammate” argument). Maybe he needs some time off. Who knows. Figure it out and fix him. The willingness here to give up on players scares me.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Who wants that headache and at that salary. When the option year kicks in that means he’s signed through 2011.
by rlpete on Jun 27, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off the top of my head...
the Giants are desperate for offense.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we owe them a PTBNL?
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jun 27, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In any heated exchange
words are said that are later regretted. Lou evidently let his emotions take over, which is fine with me. The story is really going to be what happens next. Lou seemed somewhat apologetic with the comment on Bradley going to be in the lineup today.
The real problem is with society today…….what have you done for me lately? If Bradley hits 2 HR’s today too many will forgive and forget. This does not solve the problem. This can fester for days, weeks and months. Where this goes is the story that none of us know. I will be most interested in watching what unfolds.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jun 27, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This a bad situation but
I really feel his teammates will rally around him and pick him up. Lou is a fair manager and he will let it go. How can we let Big Z act the way he does and then get on Bradley for what he does? There must be something deeper to this situation.
If we get a nice little 12-4 run or something like that before the All-Star break all will be forgoten. I think Bradley has put a lot of pressure on himself, trying to show he deserves this contract. How many bad right fielders have the Cubs been thru since Sosa? Plenty, with Bradley and Fukudome we are stuck. I truely believe things will turn around.
A sweep at the Cell would be a nice start.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jun 27, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was a fan of the Milton signing
I was pretty obviously wrong. However, one thing that I wasn’t a fan of was the fact that Hendry gave him two guaranteed years and an easily attainable option, for $30 million — while Abreu and Dunn were both cheaper. Hell, Orlando Hudson would be a nice option at second right now.
The contract is important, because if Milton got a one-year deal, he might be tradeable right now.
I DO feel that Milton gets blamed unfairly for the loss of DeRosa. BOTH guys could be on this team if Hendry hadn’t signed Miles, hadn’t offered Gaudin a contract and hadn’t signed Gathright. Those three contracts almost get to DeRosa’s money for this season.
Last point — does anyone know why Z went into the clubhouse with Lou??
by elgato on Jun 27, 2009 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who knows?
He’s got Lous back evidently
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Lou is using this as a way to end the dugout blowups, I seriously question his
judgement. He has let these blowups continue and to single out Milton to be the one to feel his wrath doesn’t make a lot of sense. He knows that Milton has a short fuse and that there would be a bad reaction. Maybe Lou is using this as a way to speed the process of getting Milton out of town. Either way, I have lost a bit of respect for Lou for handling this situation this way.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 27, 2009 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou has mellowed out
over the years, but the fire is still there. He took on Rob Dibble, I’m sure you can find it on You Tube. Sometimes you pick your fights.
If you have a child with behavior you don’t like, you put up with it for a while, hoping that they stop it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they do not. If they don not, you take corrective action. It has been a while since anyone had had a blowup in the dugout..
Personally, I think Lou has been waiting to unload on someone. MB gave him the chance.
And Willie, remember Roger Dorn and Ricky Vaughn didn’t exactly get along either.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
by cubfred on Jun 27, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just about to say...
this season feels an awful lot like the plot of Major League 2
by mic on Jun 27, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's what it is
Everything seems to be pointing to addressing Bradley.
The implication about dugout behavior may have been to deflect some attention from Bradley; I don’t know.
The comments in Wittenmeyer’s article . . . Lou shouldn’t have said that if he did. I don’t know what led up to it, but it’s not appropriate, and props to Bradley for responding that way. And I’m no Bradley apologist.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why did Lou state that he was fed up with these types of incidents if he wasn't addressing them directly? In his
press conference he stated that “This has gone on long enough.” He was asked if he was referring to Milton’s behavior and he said no that he was referring to players throwing things and breaking stuff in the dugout. I think that he was just tired of guys blowing up and destroying coolers and bats. There have been four seperate incidents and I think hehas just had enough.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 27, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His response when asked that was
1) Confusion
followed by
2) Vagueness
He never said it was all the players. Everything that’s been written in the MSM implies that issues with MB have been building for some time.
I don’t agree with all of Piniella’s moves/statements, but there are reasons behind them.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A crossroads
It appears that MB is at a crossroads in his career. He has a 3 year $30M contract, has had emotional problems in the clubhouse and on the field.
Someone in one of the fanposts compared MB to TO. That is probably a fair comparison. However, TO plays at a level that MB does not. Reggie Jackson was a monumental jerk, but, he got results.
I go to Chicago for a weekend every year and take in three Cubs games. In 2007, it was the Braves series. On Friday, Z punched out Barrett. On Saturday, Lou went crazy arguing with the umpire and got suspended. Recordwise, that was the lowpoint of the season. The next day, the Cubs had the bases loaded nobody out. then a strikeout and popout. You could just sense the Cubs fans going, here comes another loss. the Mark Derosa hits a 420 foot grand slam. You could just sense the relief in the stands. It was off to the races for the rest of the year.
What that weekend did was bring the team together. Yes, in a couple of weeks, Barrett was gone. It was clear he was in Lou’s doghouse. The problem is when you have a $30M contract it is a very nice doghouse and not many teams will eat a contract of that nice, and maybe even fewer will be willing to accept MB.
What MB needs right now is to act contrite. For the sake of argument, if he goes on a hitting streak and starts playing team baseball and the Cubs start winning all will be forgiven. Not forgotten, but forgiven. Winning cures a lot of ills.
One last note. I have to admit that I was surprised about Soriano’s comments. Maybe he is more of a clubhouse leader than I thought. However, I don’t know how effective you can be when your batting average is worse than MB’s.
It’s a long season, and wew are only 2.5 games out of first. Keep the faith.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
by cubfred on Jun 27, 2009 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TO and Bradley have one thing in common
And it isn’t their behavior. Comparing them is absolutely ridiculous.
by Wreckard on Jun 27, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nicollette Sheridan?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is that one thing then?
Both athletes are very talented. I would venture to say that TO is better. MB is a good player, TO is near the top of his profession (and I hate TO.)
However, both have personas that make them clubhouse cancers. Personally, I think that TO is worse. MB may not crave the attention that TO does, and that may impact the public perception of him in comparison. But, the clubhouse is something entirely different.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
by cubfred on Jun 27, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are both black athletes whose buttons the press likes to push
Other than that, they’ve got nothing in common. TO burns every bridge; he throws his teammates under the bus, throws his coaches under the bus.
Bradley’s never done anything even remotely similar to that. His former teammates say good things about him. He’s never publicly called out another player.
by Wreckard on Jun 27, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yes, it's the press' fault.
Laughable.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say it was the press's fault
I just said the press likes to push their buttons. It’s still the athlete’s responsibility to behave and say reasonable things.
by Wreckard on Jun 27, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Or maybe some people just need to act their age instead of blaming their problems on others. There are times when the press will give an athlete the raw deal, but you can’t ignore history.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 27, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's a black man!
Didn’t you know the Chicago Tribune is a secret member of the KKK?!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe some people just need to act their age instead of blaming their problems on others
Show me where Bradley has done that. When he doesn’t talk to the press, people freak. When he does talk to the press, he usually says “I suck, and that’s why I’m struggling with the fans/press/players/etc”. And almost no one reads it that way. It’s baffling.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than Jeff Kent
(Who is generally acknowledged to be a jerk.)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify my comment from yesterday
I said “I think Bradley needs to change his attitude” but in the sentence before that, I said that he couldn’t do so alone. The parallel that comes to mind is a player with a drinking problem, like Eckersley or Durham (both acknowledged publicly later in their career). The team needs to step in with recommendations for help, and the player needs to want help. From a distance, (and colored by my own issues), it seems Bradley has a problem with anger, which in men can be a sign of depression, low testosterone, or other things.
Al questioned whether Bradley could change his attitude at this stage in his life and career. I understand and agree that he can’t change it alone. But I hope he gets help and accepts it.
Likewise, I’m sure there are many other players on the Cubs with issues that are not as public or related directly to their play. I don’t want to single out Bradley as in “Get some help so you can be normal like the rest of the guys.” It’s more “Get some help for your own peace of mind and the sake of the people around you, and recognize that a lot of other guys need similar help.”
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on Jun 27, 2009 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That was really low lou, really low
I think the reason to get rid of him now would be because of burned bridges.
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 8:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Ted Lilly
Is having flashbacks.
Also does this compare at all to Lou getting into it with Dibbs in Cincy?
by daeviant on Jun 27, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've lurked for two years, the first time I've felt the need to post.
I just can’t wrap my mind around the anger towards Milton Bradley. I think it’s an unfortunate overreaction to declare he must be traded. I split season tickets, sit in the right field corner and spend a whole lot of time watching Milton Bradley. Here’s what I’ve noticed:
- Milton is into the game, I think we’ve all been pleasantly surprised with his defense. Conversely, Soriano likes to talk to the crowd between pitches and has been involved in more defensive mishaps (almost killing Blanco yesterday) than I care to remember.
- On the offensive side, Milton is not hitting like we know he can. But who on the Cubs gives you better quality bats than Milton? Definitely Aram and DLee, but if there’s two outs, and runners on, I want Bradley at the plate. Milton’s OBP is around .350, which is pretty impressive when you’re hitting .238.
- Last year Dunn was criticized my Marty Brennahan for taking walks instead of hitting. Many on this sight made fun of Marty for his view, but Milton does the same thing and now we’re all frustrated for the lack of his hitting. His OBP would be much more appreciated if Soto, Fontenot, had hit over the past few months.
- Watch the walk off wins last week, see who was the first into the mob jumping around? Watch the elation on Soriano and Milton’s face after Soriano’s single. Seriously, go back and watch it, if there was a problem, they wouldn’t be hugging and jumping around like fools.
- I think alot of this is media created, they’ve targeted Milton since day one. If I was Milton, I’d follow Sandberg’s approach and just not talk to the media. What people take issue with is that Milton actually tells you how he feels. He doesn’t speak in cliches, he admits he’s struggling, he talks about his frustration, he’s real. Maybe he should just say, I’m going to take it one game at a time and everyone would be happy.
- Can Milton play better, definitely. Can alot of other Cubs, without a doubt. I can’t understand the free pass that Fontenot gets in this town this year.
- I’ve watched players beat up the cooler, throw helmets/gloves all year, and Bradley is the only who gets sent home. Why didn’t Marmol get sent home yesterday for throwing his glove knocking the bubblegum all around yesterday.
- If Lou said that to Milton and he showed restraint, we should be praising him and questioning if Lou is capable of running this team. If any boss attacks a player personally, calls him a POS, F-ing terrible, and the guy has the restraint to walk away, the player isn’t the one with the anger problem. I honestly believe Lou’s lucky he’s not waking up in the hospital this morning.
Enough of my soapbox, but puh-leaze, let’s wait on declaring the need to get rid of Milton til he does something worse than throwing a helmet.
Always loyal to Leon
by 239 Brigade on Jun 27, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 18 recs
Rec'd
Hope to see more posts from you in the future
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many, many more.
We need more even tempered folk round these parts. The reactionary nature of this site is out of control.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's because on the internet you can hide behind your ridiculous statements.
That’s why when things are going bad, I don’t log onto here. It’s basically a place for people to blow off steam.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot doesnt get grief b/c he doesnt get paid 30M dollars
And he wasnt hailed as the cure to all the lineups problems. The “anger”, as you put it, against Milton has been around since the winter, he was a very divisive signing, and apparently a divisive teammate.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
divisive teammate to whom?
that’s definitely not what i read in the papers.
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
A lot of good points. You should get on that soapbox more often.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent, thank you
I’m going to take Lou’s side on this deal however it turns out. If Lou genuinely has lost the ability to trust Milton, then he has to go. But like you, I’ve been completely flummoxed by the overwhelming anger towards Milton from long before the season started, and I agree a large part of it is that the media has targeted him from day one. Chicago papers aren’t exactly NY, but they aren’t innocent either. There are lots of people covering the Cubs who want nothing less than a total meltdown, and aren’t ashamed to push and push and push to see it happen.
by Orval Overall on Jun 27, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cannot express my agreement with this enough.
please accept this award with my compliments.
Please post more in the future!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do post more
and I largely agree with this but I don’t think Bradley can avoid the media. Sandberg was simply a guy who did not talk much. He did not refuse to talk like Steve Carlton, he just was a combination of reticent and boring. Milton can not avoid speaking to the media because it is literally part of the job. Best thing would just be to speak in boring platitudes ala Nook Laloosh but that is not is M.O. He is genuinely smart guy but that can be double edged sword in terms of talking to the media. I think this is an area that he seriously needs to use his brain. Things on a baseball field are often heat of the moment but off the field he really does need to show more restraint. I realize it is a case of “just because I am paranoid does not mean everyone is not out to get me” but he can play the media and the public better than he is.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 27, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree completely
While i’m not necessarily absolving Bradley, there are way too many fans and media who seem to absolutely salivate over the chance to dump on this guy.
I’ve got news for all of the Bradley Haters; with his contract it’s almost inconceivable that he’s going anywhere so, if you really care about the Cubs, you’d better learn to live with this guy and hope he comes around with the bat.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 27, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Couldn’t agree more!!!!! Well done Sir!
by BadDecisions on Jun 27, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely done
This site needs all the good posters it can get.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 27, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reaction here and by fans and writers in general is more embarrassing than the incident
You were right to sit on that “story” about Bradley Al, and absolutely wrong to run it. It’s hearsay, plain and simple; no journalist would ever run something like that and if you’re going to give yourself a title such as “editor-in-chief” then I’d think you’d at least try to show a little bit of journalistic integrity.
Bradley throws a temper tantrum in the dugout and gets sent home and now he “must go”? This has nothing to do with the incident and everything with your personal dislike for Bradley. He hasn’t performed, sure, but this is baseball – contracts are guaranteed and we’re stuck with that decision and should be supporting Bradley and cheering for him – something most of you have never done.
I’ll say it again: You’re all clicking your tongues, shaking your heads, and pretending this is some dark day you’re all embarrassed, when really this is what you were all hoping would happen. Some incident of marginal significance that you can turn into a bigger deal than it is and call for Bradley’s head on a stake.
by Wreckard on Jun 27, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 17 recs
I really doubt anyone hoped Bradley would fail
Maybe it’s just that it’s already the end of June and he doesn’t seem to have adjusted very well, and is cracking under the pressure. It’s not only that he has a history of injury and has a few social tweaks, but he doesn’t seem to be handling it very well. Alfonso Soriano is under the same pressure right now, but you don’t see him punching water coolers.
by daeviant on Jun 27, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't see what's wrong with getting mad at yourself
he’s not really punching his teammates, he’s just furious at himself. That’s showing me that he cares. For some articles to say that he’s selfish and all that crap, total BS. He wouldn’t be showing this anger if he didn’t care.
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not teammates and fans
but others around the league and in the media? Absolutely they want him to fail and are speeding it along with these kinds of blind item smears.
by Orval Overall on Jun 27, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understand this about Al
He is as big a fan as any poster participating on BCB, and as such he gets as emotionally charged about the team’s fortunes as anyone else. In the main he (and the forum) are very positive and fun – something refreshing in the world of sports blogs/boards, where smugness and snarkiness are the rule.
Al is perfectly entitled to say “Milton Bradley Must Go”. He could have repeated what our manager said, which I find unacceptable and worthy of an apology to both player and team. Nothing in the comments Al has gone on record with about Bradley gives evidence of a tacit hatred for Bradley.
I’ll agree that there are some Cub fans out there (not necessarily here at BCB) that do want to see Bradley implode just so they can be right. Never mind that it also means the Cubs will struggle; proving a point is what they really care about.
by CaliCub on Jun 27, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
About Bradley critics
or critics of any player… They’re Cubs fans first, and critics second. To say that they hope a certain player fails is just wrong. When Bradley was signed I saw a lot of people saying that they don’t like Bradley but they hope he proves them wrong.
by daeviant on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the problem i have with the title is
that if he said that a week ago when he was performing poorly, then alright i don’t mind. However, he chose to say it right after an incident that wasn’t even an incident. Bradley got mad at himself, Lou followed him in and told him to leave. They exchanged some words, big deal. To say he must go because of what happened yesterday is just crazy. What suggests that his teammates hate him? They don’t! They just don’t have a really good bond. And all that stuff about him being overwhelmed, that should make me feel better because I know that he’s pressing way too much and letting that affect his hitting. GIve it a month or so, and everything will be ok.
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al also said
that he has sources that he doesn’t want to name, and that he heard these things weeks ago but came out with them after this incident because it was appropriate. These sources said that Bradley was a cancer on other teams and other players believed he was an “asshole”. It’s not just his poor perforamce here. It’s the selfish attitude he exhibited pretty much everywhere he played.
by daeviant on Jun 27, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer teammates over unamed sources
D-Lee:
“When we’re in the clubhouse, everyone gets along with Milton,” Lee said. “I don’t think there’s a guy in here who says he doesn’t get along with Milton. Guys get frustrated. We see it all the time.”
Carlos Zambrano was so concerned about Bradley he followed him into the clubhouse after the incident with Piniella to see if Bradley was OK.
For Zambrano to go see if he’s ok, I think he cares. Of course i’m not in the clubhouse but if selfish attitude, you mean throwing bats and punching coolers, that’s not selfish to me. That’s caring.
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I prefer teammates, too. Reference the article above:
Sori on MB:
“We are 25 players, and we have to be on the same page. If he is not 100 percent to help the team win, we don’t need him. If he’s 100 percent and he wants to play, he’s more than welcome.”
When a new player comes to a team, the other players should support him and give him the chance to ba a part of it. We are three months in now.
Boy oh boy oh boy
by BleedsbluinMI on Jun 27, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Soriano's comments...
…may be the most revealing of anybody. Soriano is not a guy to talk for the sake of talking, so when he makes a statement like; “If he’s not 100% to help the team win, we don’t need him” – it is pretty damn powerful.
This tells me there have been issues (above your typical clubhouse issues), and Lou had had enouph.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and players
who refuse to back their statements up with their names are much more likely, in my view, to be the cancers.
MANY players come forward and say “Milton Bradley is a good guy and a great teammate” and they’re willing to put their money where their mouth is by doing it publicly. Anonymous commenters can get stuffed.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And pound sand.
If you have something worth saying, you’ll attach your name to it, plain and simple.
Sori has been the closest i’ve seen to doing this so far, and even he gave leeway. Far more than most around here seem to be doing.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 27, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano was the guy who was quoted by the media earlier in the year
saying something to the effect of: the team isn’t focused, we’re not playing well, and that needs to change.
I wish I could find that quote right now, just to re-read it, and compare to his quote from yesterday.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 27, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish he would talk less and hit a little more.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 27, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um wait...
…so you are saying everything Al wrote is hearsay. Okay fine. Then you go on to say that everyone is happy that they were “right” about Bradley. Really? Am I the only one not seeing a serious contradiction here?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you're not the only one.
I mentioned that in the fanpost on this topic, too.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah okay (rolling eyes)
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There isn't.
I’m not running stories on the front page of one of the most viewed blogs on the subject of Cubdom. I don’t purport to be “editor in chief” of anything.
Like it or not, Al has a responsibility to display some journalistic integrity here. Not only is what I’m doing different (I’m not slandering a single person using hearsay, I’m simply reacting to what I see as a trend from the fans) I don’t represent Cubs fans the way Al does, for better or in this case worse.
by Wreckard on Jun 27, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While you and I agree more or less about Bradley...
I totally disagree here.
I don’t think much of unsourced quotations, which is why I don’t put much weight into them. But Al hasn’t signed any contract accepting “responsibility to display some journalistic integrity.” He can say or do whatever the hell he wants here and would be justified in doing so, in the sense that this is his website. He’s not pretending to be the all-knowing arbiter of impartial news.
This is a blog. It’s not governed by the same (arbitrary, largely more theoretical than practiced) governing standards of professional media.
The only outlet we have to vote on how content is portrayed here is to choose to either visit or not visit the site. (It’s the same argument as in the case of that blogger and speculation about Raul Ibanez and steroids, btw.).
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get your point.
But it’s still a contradiction when you say on one hand Al shouldn’t use hearsay and on the other hand you make a ridiculous blanket statement about Cubs fans “when really this is what you were all hoping would happen.”
You’re taking the moral high ground and then taking a low road.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Al has sources...
…he should be able to use them as he has. I myself, have mentioned that I know someone who is very close to the game and has an “inside track” to the Cubs. I have a chance to get together with him and talk baseball at least every few weeks and I get some interesting information in those talks. I will occasional mention them here and say I know someone in a position to have a read on what I am stating, and people can take it however they like.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do your sources say on the subject?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jun 27, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't spoken to him...
…about this incident yet, but I will when we play golf next week.
I have spoken to him about Bradley, and although his comments were not as strong as the one’s from Al, they followed the same general path – the guy can be trouble.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a huge difference there.
You’re using an unnamed source, but it’s a direct source. This isn’t the same thing – this is “I heard from a guy, who heard from a guy.”
That’s rumor mongering, hearsay, and irresponsible.
by Wreckard on Jun 27, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While it is a secondhand source...
… I trust the firsthand source who told me the information, in both cases, 100%. If I had a single shred of doubt that what I had been told was true, I wouldn’t have posted it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 28, 2009 5:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not pretending..
to be embarrassed, I am embarrassed. Please don’t assume you know what I or other fans are thinking.
All of these dugout tantrums need to stop. Lou is at fault for not shutting this down earlier. That Marmol does the same a few innings later is ridiculous.
I did not support the Bradley signing, but have never wished for him to fail, just the opposite. I, and a lot of fans on this site, have given him the benefit of the doubt. When he came here, he said it was all behind him and the media has blown his problems out of proportion. Ok, for me, he started with a clean slate. I understand his track record of injuries and did not expect him out there everyday. I did expect him to produce when he was and also be a man of his word in that these issues were behind him. Those are my problems with MB. If he was hitting .300 right now, there is no issue. It’s an easy fix, but he’s isn’t and has shown that his other issues aren’t behind him.
It is not all MB – Lilly, Marmol, Z, Demp, and anyone else need to get a grip and act as professionals. No more tantrums, how about we put our heads down, play sound fundamental baseball, and show we can weather some adversity without looking like a 4 year old.
This fan is tired of his team playing poorly and acting like a bunch of jerks. Lou, Dlee, Sori, whoever else deems themself a leader, step the hell up. We are 1 game back in the loss column. Why don’t we shut up and play ball, and get this thing done?
Boy oh boy oh boy
by BleedsbluinMI on Jun 27, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well what did you expect when the guy leading the team is famous for his tantrums?
He can only get by on “do as I say, not as I do” for so long
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is true, but as the manager of the Cub's, how many has he thrown?
There have been a few, some well placed after a poor call, and maybe the one clearly as a motivator. If anything, Lou has been knocked for lacking the fire. My point is, in front of this team, he has been far from out of control. These tantrums are not stemming from him, but he is at fault for putting up with them.
In my opinion, Z has not been held accountable for his immaturity and it has gotten worse this year with several of his teammates joining in.
Boy oh boy oh boy
by BleedsbluinMI on Jun 27, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah youre right
But his reputation preceded him when he came here, so Im sure many people in and around the club viewed him as such, plus we dont really know how demonstrative he is behind closed doors.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute...
…have you watched him the last 2 years? He has been as composed as any manager in baseball. All I hear is people saying they want the old Lou who goes off on people.
For the most part, he has shown a high degree of patience with both shitty play and possibly attitude problems – probably too much patience.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was NOT "hoping" Bradley would fail.
That would mean I would hope someone on the team I want to succeed, would not do his job.
I expected him to fail. That’s very different from “hoping”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean to tell me that you knew that Milton Bradley would be hitting .220-.230 heading into July?
by Pre on Jun 27, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, of course not.
But neither did I think he would replicate his 2008 season.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't have the time to read all thorugh this thread.
I agree 1000 percent Wreckard, this is just awful practice of journalism. You have to be more careful that just us on the blog spouting off.
Al, this is a great blog and I enjoy it tremendously, but this was out of line.
Wreckard, you are now up to 10 rec’ds
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 27, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the Bronx Zoo- '78 Yankees
Read about the outbursts that Lou had after a bad at bat- how Bob Lemon ripped him for throwing helments in the dugout and destroying light bulbs in the tunnel, water coolers and a 100 cup coffee pot. Then tell me who that sounds like.
I’m not an MB fan by any means, but there has to be more to his. All Bradley is doing is acting like Lou. Maybe thats the problem.
"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69
by tommy veryzer on Jun 27, 2009 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou should be saluted for remaking the team and its attitude...
but I suspect he’s absolutely incapable of handling a player with psychological problems. Maybe no MLB manager can handle a player who clearly is terrified by the big stage, cannot control his emotional impulses, and views himself as an eternal victim. Milton Bradley may be that player whose internal demons far outweigh any positive contributions he makes on the field. In any case, it’s obvious Lou has no time, energy or patience for dealing with the psyche of a very fragile human being. I don’t damn him for that – his job is to win baseball games, not be a social worker. Sadly, Hendry made social work part of Lou’s job description when he signed Bradley.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jun 27, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said & rec'd.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could it be safe to say
Lou felt the same way with Rich Hill? That dude seemed to lack confidence. He is a good pitcher, but just lacks it mentally?
by BadDecisions on Jun 27, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's be clear about what getting rid of Milton Bradley will mean.
Bradley’s season line stands at .237/.355/.379. In May and June the OPS has been in the .775 range. He’s been hitting better as the season goes on and figures to have at least one break-out month to come.
If we replaced him with Micah Hoffpauir, our OF defense will be very stretched, and, plus, Micah has been getting worse and worse each month this year, with his OBP getting dangerously close to dropping below .300. A straight swap from Milton to Micah means a team taking a whole lot less pitches, which will add up in letting pitchers deeper into games.
If we replaced Milton with Reed Johnson, fans might like the attitude change, but RJ just cannot hit RHP, and he makes the L/R unbalance much worse. He’s got a .700 OPS v. RHP this year, and that may be the high-water mark.
Jake Fox is the rage right now, but there’s still the L/R thing and his defense will not stand up well, I’d argue, to having the spotlight of being Milton’s sole successor put on him.
You might be able to make a go out of playing all three of those guys out there, but I think that would end up being a short-term solution only, then. So, then you have to ask what LH OF will really be on the trade block. I’m not buying Adam Dunn being available unless we overpay.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Good points
and I agree that getting Dunn would require an overpay.
by rlpete on Jun 27, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well what are we holding onto other than Vitters?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells and Marshall?
The Nats will want young pitching.
by rlpete on Jun 27, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So call Toronto and arrange a three-way deal involving Lyle Overpay
by CaliCub on Jun 27, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said Lyle OVERPAY.
I think he was joking.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'm here for haha.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt we'd have to overpay in terms of players to get Dunn.
Take his contract, yes. But players? The Nats would be happy to get rid of the contract.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 27, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The asking price for Dunn was recently described as "astronomical"
by Wreckard on Jun 27, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's the case, the Nats are stuck with him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Dunn’s contract isn’t bad. The Nats have a low payroll. The fans are ignoring the team so dumping one of their few bright spots for nothing is not a smart move.
by rlpete on Jun 27, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm....we got a guy that absolutely rakes and needs to be in the lineup everyday
especially once Aramis comes back, and who can platoon with another very solid hitter with some pop. I agree Al, defense be damned. I’ll take some misplays in the field every now and then if guys are busting it over cancer any day of the week.
by VolPowers on Jun 27, 2009 9:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Fox needs to play everyday until he shows he can’t hit or becomes a huge defensive liability out there.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 27, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean
we can call for Soriano’s benching?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 27, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't really know what happens behind closed doors
I’ve listened to enough former major leaguers to realize that a lot goes on that fans and media never see or hear. I really doubt Soriano would get involved it if this was one of just a very tiny handful of blowups. The guy has been called a cancer on other teams. Does this maybe mean that he’s not a very good clubhouse guy in general?
by daeviant on Jun 27, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There must be more going on...
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 27, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There usually is
There’s a lot that we’ll never be privvy to
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's been called a cancer on other teams
by people who either won’t back up their statements with their names, or people who make money off of sensational articles.
EVERY player who is willing to put their name behind their statements says that Milton Bradley is a good player and a great teammate, save one. And we know about the one.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would you think....
… would say in PUBLIC that Bradley isn’t a good teammate? NO ONE, that’s who.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course. They say the right things because they are professionals.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A teammate is going to defuse or downlplay everything
almost 100% of the time. If they don’t, there would be repercussions with other teammates and management. To be honest, I rarely trust players when they make statements on something controversial a teammate did. Not to say they aren’t trustworthy. Lee’s statement about Bradley probably demonstrates what a good teammate Lee is, but not necessarily that Bradley is.
by daeviant on Jun 27, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got to tell you man,
I really don’t see where you’re coming from. I won’t even try to debate whether Milton is a good teammate, and I certainly am not looking to change your mind; that whole hearts and minds thing isn’t really me. But I think you’re failing to recognize some basic issues here about how this stuff really works.
There’s plenty of backstory, rumors, politics, and off-the record conversations that are going around in journalism. Fear of retribution, loss of income or status, or creating an even worse work environment will keep most high-profile people from getting into candid conversations. That’s just reality. Say too much, and all of a sudden, that guy isn’t the problem, you are, because you talk too damn much.
You should take most of these public statement — good or bad — with something of a grain of salt, especially given the fact that most athletes are coached in media-speak.
And besides, who in the hell would want to basically live with Milton Bradley for six months out of the year after making derogatory public comments about him?
by Damen Jackson on Jun 27, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milton will be with the team...
unless Crane Kenny intervenes. Unfortunately, there is too much invested in the player and, again, I cannot see another team who would take on this contract.
If there is a clause in the contract pertaining to “blowups”, suspensions, “attitude”, insubordination, then perhaps there is legal basis. Otherwise, unless something unusual happens, we could be stuck.
We are also stuck with Soriano for another six years. Again, no other team will take him with the contract Hendry signed.
Hendry signed a deal with the Devil, and we are all paying for it.
by The E-Man on Jun 27, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Five years, not six, for Soriano.
And maybe Kenney will have to intervene.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bradley
we knew what hendry and pinella did not.this would be a huge mistake.i was really rooting for the rays to get him so we could get dunn. this season is truly going down the drain. i really think this will be pinellas last season, if so i think we should approach brenley. i doubt we have to worry about getting swept in the playoffs this year.
by NOMAR on Jun 27, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brenley?
Really? I think it would be a three way race b/t Trammel, Davis and Sandberg
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly...
Don’t know about Davis.
But the other two, if Girardi doesn’t get fired, yes. And, I think Brenly would get consideration during the off-season.
by The E-Man on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he didnt seem to get much last time around
And you know Sandberg will get tons of support. I dont think Lou is leaving, but he’s said this is his last stop, so its going to be an issue at some point.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No rookie managers,
and no ‘star’ managers for this team in the future. Trammel’s the perfect choice.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 27, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't Piniella's last season
Unless Lou Piniella retires, this isn’t his last season. Jim Hendry might be expendable if the sale ever gets completed, but don’t think Lou is.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 27, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's done. But by his own decision.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2.5 games out with 90-something left
and this season is going “down the drain.”
That alone tells me the OP’s post isn’t worth reading.
And it’s “Brenly.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 27, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...if Girardi doesn’t get fired
And, of course, that was a joke…
by The E-Man on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Milton will do better when Aramis gets back.
With Aramis in the lineup, it takes the pressure off of everybody. Something like this happend to the Yankees this year. When A-Rod was on the DL, Mark Teixeira was under-performing. Everybody was on Teixeria to make up for A-Rod not being in the lineup. I think the same is happening with Bradley. When Ramirez gets back, Bradley will transform into a Mighty Morphin Power Ranger and tear the cover of the ball. (And secretly protect the world)
by Cubbiegoon on Jun 27, 2009 9:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats not entirely accurate
Teixeira is a notoriously slow starter, so that wouldve happened anyway. I think we might be fooling ourselves if we’re expecting the Ramirez of old this year as well. Though I would agree, his mere presence is going to help to some degree
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On May 8, the day Ramirez got hurt...
… Bradley was hitting .150/.292/.300 with 3 HR and 4 RBI.
Care to reword your comment?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 27, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both of your comments can co-exist together, right?
Bradley was not performing prior to Aramis’ injury. Then when ARam went down, Bradley tried even harded because he felt the added pressure of having to take up the slack….
I don’t know if that’s true, but logically, it seems possible.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I was in Bradley's position
and the first article before the home opener written about me was whether or not Cubs fans should boo me or not, I would feel a little pissed. Whoever wrote that is just crazy. You can’t give this guy, who’s known as a pretty emotional guy, a few weeks to get acclimated to Chicago.
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok, now it is three months later. So, he is still pissed about that article?
Boy oh boy oh boy
by BleedsbluinMI on Jun 27, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm just saying
what a great start for an emotional guy!
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're saying it's the media's fault...?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
noooo
i’m not saying it’s anybody’s fault. I’m just saying that it was kinda stupid for whoever to write an article like that.
offen$e plea$e wake up
by lexmarklover on Jun 27, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I am.
Not for yesterday, but for the cascade of faux scandals the Trib, Sun Times and others have thrown at us since day 1. The kinds of things Milton has been taking [crud] for from the beginning would be ignored if they came from D-Lee or A-Ram. But for some players — Milton and Z among them — the sexy storyline is “this dude’s crazy, look what he did now” and it gets written up as a scandal.
The media has definitely, and deliberately, cultivated an image of scandal around this guy that has been totally unwarranted by the facts.
by Orval Overall on Jun 27, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous.
First of all the reason they wrote stories about him being “crazy” is because of HIS past. WTF! It’s not like they pulled that out of their asses.
Second of all, he’s had some pretty decent freak outs to start the season. Thus pouring more fuel on the “crazy Bradley stories” fire.
Thirdly had he come out of the gates hitting like a $30 million dollar man, they would have been writing about that.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
never got a chance with the Chicago media.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break.
It’s NOT the media’s fault. I’m not even sure this is worth arguing if you really think it is. But I’ll take the bait.
Again let me repeat. The reason he “never got a chance” is because you lay in the bed you make. He has been the one that has a troubled past. The media just didn’t pull that out of their ass.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the media
should have been willing to see what he would do here before declaring him a failure, which is exactly what happened.
So, yes, it’s not worth arguing about.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 27, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop.
Please give me one article that says he was a failure. They asked him about his checkered past, because he has….A CHECKERED PAST!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They ask those questions...
presupposing that his actions will therefore be the same in Chicago, without any evidence that that was going to be the case.
If they weren’t inferring that, what would the point of asking about those events that didn’t happen when he was a Cub, and have no relevence to his career as one? Clearly they weren’t taking Bradley at his word that he wanted a fresh start.
I can’t think of any other plausible explanation for bringing all that up, aside from creating a narrative of “Ooohhh. What will Milton do this time? Tune in tonight at 11!”
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yabbut
It’s not like he had one incident. He has incident, after incident, after incident…
And hindsight is showing pretty clearly that they were right to ask those questions.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I won't speak for Drew...
but part of my point is that by relentlessly asking the questions, it pushed Bradley in the direction of having incidents that may not have occurred if they just gave him a fresh start and quit harassing him.
In the end, obviously we’ll never know. And Milton is responsible for his actions. But when you constantly antagonize someone and essentially incessently ask them “Are you ready to **** up yet?” after every turn, it’s not exactly a shock when they get tired of it, get angry and then…**** up.
I don’t feel like I’m the only who feels that the media can create a narrative by pounding home a storyline, whether it’s based in truth or not.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I refuse to blame the media for the actions of
a grown man who is suppose to be a professional.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You obviously didn't actually read my post then...
Milton is responsible for his actions.
But that doesn’t mean that the media has acted like professionals either; nor does it mean that they didn’t create the circumstances by where Bradley would almost surely fail professionally, given his personal idiosyncracies and frailties.
(In legal parlance, it would be very loosely akin to the same ideas behind entrapment).
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 27, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I know you said that...
…but then you go on to say the thing about “create the circumstances…” which sounds a little contradictary to me. Maybe I’m just reading into your statement a little too much?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, the same media, if they interviewed:
Edison, shouldn’t ask about the light bulb?
Eisenhower, shouldn’t ask about D-Day?
Custer, shouldn’t ask about Little Big Horn?
Earhart, shouldn’t ask about getting lost?
He gets the questions because that’s what he’s known for. He made that bed himself.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with you
the media just wants to set this guy off. people bitch he wasn’t talking to the media now they complain when he does. F*** the chicago media. full of complete idiots like mr. paul sullivan. hey Sully you suck
by Glacier on Jun 27, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very confused by the logic here...
So, a player gets sent home in the middle of a ballgame — a close one at that — and reporting on it is somehow a faux scandal?
There are a few thousand guys out there on a 40-man roster, playing 162 games a season. It’s extremely rare to see one pulled during a game, especially due to a disagreement with the manager. Yes, it’s news worthy.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 27, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Right. On. Point.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not when the manager says it's about dugout tantrums and then doesn't do a damn thing when Marmol throws a hit later in the game
by Pre on Jun 27, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the first words of my comment are ...
“not for yesterday.” As in, I don’t blame the press for what happened yesterday. That was a genuine issue and deserving of coverage. Its the dozens of “Milton’s cray-cray” stories that preceded yesterday that I consider to be faux scandals.
by Orval Overall on Jun 27, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he didn't have a checkered past, there wouldn't be an issue.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Todd Hundley's still pissed
About not starting opening day in 2000.
/sarcasm
Kind of.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*2002
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 27, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reactions here are not the issue with MB.
When the Manager and the player have a confrontation like that and other player(s) like Soriano make such comments then there’s a huge issue. It isn’t the media or the fans, it’s MB his teammates and Manager. I still think it can be worked out and he doesn’t have to be traded. MB is a far superior talent than the other MB that went toe-to-toe with Big Z (well, was a punching bag), and it would be an admission of a gigantic mistake by Hendry if he were traded, not to mention the type of financial mistake that the Cubs don’t abide by.
It’s avery serious situation between the player, his manager and his teammates and it has to be worked out. From the public comments made I presume that the private ones and behavior are far worse. It needs to be worked out ASAP or it will derail this team.
by DudeVf11 on Jun 27, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
brenley
the reason i say brenley is if you listen to this guy he just seems to know his baseball. sandberg would be the sentimental choice.trammell i just have a bad feeling about. sorry for jumping ahead to 2010,after all we do have lou signed. lous habit of bailing on his contract ust had me thinking the way this season is going.
by NOMAR on Jun 27, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trammel managed a dreadful Detroit team
So I wouldnt hold that against him, plus we dont know who else might be available by then, word on the streets is Bobby V might be back in the bigs soon
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well after Baker and Piniella
One can wonder if they’ll shy away from the celebrity managers anyway
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Trammel next year and Ryne Sandberg in 2011 or 12.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 27, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i could live with Trammel
or Brenley even.
by Glacier on Jun 27, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I HATE Brenly as an announcer...
…I think he would be a good manager. I sorta think he wants Lou to retire so he can take over, one of the reasons he passed on the Brewers job.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sandbergs gonna have a lot of mojo behind him
for purely sentimental reasons, perhaps he could take note of Trammels time in detroit. A bit different of course, in terms of the money/talen, but beloved player comes back to manage his old team seldom works out as the fans hope
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
If the Cubs were smart, they’d groom Sandberg longer than the fans want.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if Lou goes till 2011, that might be just fine
Plus the team will be younger by than hopefully, with Vitters, Cashner, Jackson(s) all getting closer or in Chicago, so he’d be familiar with them, and as we’re seeing, he’s more intense as a manager, so hopefully that intensity combined with experience breeds respect.
I have no idea if he’d be good at it, but he’s my favorite Cub, so Id love to see it
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 27, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's worry about what's important...
…like who will be deciding on roster selections in 2011. That person will have a greater impact on whether the team wins than the manager everybody wants to replace every few years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 27, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again I think it'll be sooner that 2011.
I think Lou’s done after this year.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 27, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs