Would you have traded Marshall for DeRo?
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 10:08 AM CDT
176 comments
The Sun-Times reports today that the Indians were interested in trading DeRosa for Marshall, http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1643290,CST-SPT-cub29.article. The story doesn't say what else the Cubs would have had to give up -- I'm guessing at least one minor-league arm. But it's an interesting question: Would Marshall have been too big a price to pay to get DeRo back?
My initial reaction was no -- not because I dislike Marshall but because I don't consider him to be a dominant pitcher in any way. Also, I think Fontenot is the least likely of the starting Cubs (yes, I know the plan was for him to platoon with Aaron Miles) to bounce back in the second half. Assuming I'm right, DeRosa would have had a spot when Aramis returns (if Fontenot was having a great season, I don't think we'd care about the whereabouts of DeRosa nearly as much as we do). Still, Marshall has been good out of the pen and he is our only lefty reliever. He provides backup in case Harden gets hurt, and he's a quality guy.
I don't think Hendry is the kind of person who would have refused to get DeRosa back to save face. Maybe he and Lou just thought the price tag was too high. And, if DeRosa had gone to most other teams, I'd agree.
But I think I would have given up Marshall and a prospect to reacquire DeRosa AND to keep him out of St. Louis (or Milwaukee, for that matter). I should also point out that I don't think DeRosa is Ruth, Mays, DiMaggio or even an All-Star -- but he is a valuable player who would have solved a lot of the Cubs issues, IMO.
Finally, if this was discussed in one of the threads, I apologize. Couldn't find any mention of it searching for both players names.
Discuss -- and please don't flame me for DeRosa talk. This is my first (MAYBE second) post on the matter.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I would have done it, yes.
But the deal’s done. I’m moving on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 29, 2009 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hear you
I just think it’s an interesting question — even if it’s all academic now.
It’s possible that the Cubs are betting that the bats will get it going soon, and that the biggest concern is the pen. If so, I can see why giving up Marshall didn’t seem appealing.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Left-Handed Obsession
While I don’t agree with this line of thinking, I believe the Cubs did not want to trade Marshall because he was the only southpaw in the bullpen. The Cubs felt like they absolutely had to have a lefty in the pen at all costs. That left-handed obsession was behind getting Milton Bradley. BTW, Bradley has hit better right-handed than left-handed this season.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Jun 29, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not an obsession
I wish people would quit talking like that. If the Cubs are obsessed with left-handedness, then so is every team in the major leagues.
There’s only one obsession around here. I’ll let you figure it out.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
complaining any time DeRosa is mentioned?
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI, I'm not the only one who's complaining,
and you didn’t help matters with this post.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there was interesting news to talk about today
And my support of a now-theoretical Marshall-for-DeRosa trade is conditional.
But I think this post and this discussion are totally valid. Sorry, we disagree.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for what it's worth, NBF
I get annoyed when people post about how we had to trade DeRosa to get Bradley. That is just FALSE. The money spent to sign Miles, Gaudin and Gathright would have been almost enough to cover DeRosa this year.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's just one more thing that makes the past offseason a miserable failure.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 29, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see how 'miserable' it is later
I’m not going to judge it yet. Neither should anybody else. We’ll find out.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the offseason turns out to be a failure
… and the signs aren’t good right now, then what I alluded to above — as opposed to signing Milton — will be the primary reason for it, IMO. We lost one of our better players in DeRosa and used money we could have used to keep him on three guys who haven’t helped the Cubs at all.
I can see Bradley rebounding. But Gathright and Gaudin don’t even have the chance to help the Cubs with rebounds because they’re no longer on the roster! And Miles, of course, looks almost useless.
The only “plus” from those moves is the presence of Farney.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gaudin
He’s a source of frustration. I thought he, not Marshall, was going to the swingman on the pitching staff before spring training started. I was glad the Cubs got him in the Harden trade. However, he was disappointing in Chicago. I can’t blame the Cubs for letting him walk. Even after last night’s great performance, Gaudin’s only been a bit better in San Diego and has not been the same pitcher he was in Oakland.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Jun 29, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Cubs would have been better off just letting him go in the offseason, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 29, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he did throw eight innings of one hit ball against the Rangers on Sunday.
But most of his other starts have gone pretty poorly. I agree with Al – his track record was spotty to begin with and he should have been let go during the offseason.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 30, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have done it in a second
And slept like a baby
As you said, there is value in keeping a player away from a rival
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 10:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But there's not keeping a player away from a rival here.
There’s still Ty Wigginton and Jorge Cantu and other similar options out there. DeRosa is the best of that bunch and we particularly like him, but this is not a case where you overpay to keep a player away.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Marshall is our swing-man out of the pen for a long time. IF it meant a longer contract on DeRo, that might have been different.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I totally disagree with the contract point
There’s some value to getting DeRo and knowing he isn’t locked up long term. If this team sucks the rest of the year, it’s really unfortunate that they’ll all essentially be back in 2010.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want to lock up
a 34-35-year-old utility guy long term? Oy vey.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't ...
were you responding to Drew?
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just meant
that to trade Marshall, I at least want a guy who is going to be around for more than four months.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, with the NTC backloaded problem that is appearing,
it could only be a half year rental.
Question for you Drew, or anyone else who wants to weigh in.
With this roster and manager window closing, when does shedding payroll and creating future roster flexibility become more important than winning the division this year? If I saw anything over the last few weeks to give me hope team could make any noise in the playoffs, I’d be clamoring for moves to get there. I fully believe the team can and probably will make the playoffs, but…
The team has roughly $111M committed to Dempster, Lilly, Z, Lee, Ramirez, Bradley, Dome, & Soriano for 2010. Assuming Bradley vests, only $74.875 is locked down for 2011. Because Lilly and Lee become free agents, and Ramirez is a players option, the flexibility comes from either losing or having to sign to new deals the three on the list who are performing to contract levels.
My biggest fear as a fan is 3-5 years of freefall suckage. I hated 99-02 and 04-06. In some of these guys cases, getting them to waive the NTC and another team to take on their contracts would be as great, or a greater deal than the Hundley move. I really don’t want to see a roster made up of guys acquired in trades similar to the Marquis/Vizquino blockbuster.
When does the line between buying and selling become aparent? Are the rosters already crippled for years to come? I find myself growing as concerned about 2010 and 2011 as I am about 2009.
I’m sure a few wins, some tequila, and one or two non-performers going on a tear will erase this nagging concern, but here I sit today.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to me
you don’t sell till you’re mathematically eliminated. Once you get into the playoffs, all bets are off anyway.
If that means we don’t sell till the last week of the season, well, that’s the way it is.
I would be surprised to see Lee on the team after next year. I think they’ll exercise Rami’s option. And I wouldn’t want to trade away Lilly, but I was honestly surprised to not see him go this year. Then I found out he has a limited NTC himself.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you sell after the trade deadline has passed?
by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do it
in the off-season. If we’re still in the hunt at the deadline, then we go for it, and don’t sell.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you won't give up on this year's team
even with the injuries, slumps, etc . . . but you’ll preemptively give up on next years team before they have a chance to not perform up to expectations?
by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I won’t worry about next year’s team till this year’s team is eliminated.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, I guess I would anticipate an offseason trade having the Cubs eat more contract cost.
A little trade deadline desperation could move more dollars out the door, especially if top prospects weren’t needed in return.
I’m also thinking if Hendry could somehow move Soriano or Bradley without eating contract, how much worse will this team be? They might even be better.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I still believe that both Sori and Bradley have the ability to get better.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do too, and I believe the team will probably still win the division.
I just don’t see any postseason improvement with Dempster’s regression, a weaker bullpen, Ramirez injury, Soto’s season so far, etc.
If Hendry can get these guys to list a few teams and get someone, anyone, to take the contract, he puts the team in a better position to upgrade this year and next.
I’m not ledge jumping (need the robot), I want to hedge some bets for next year.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough.
But I don’t see Soriano, Bradley, or Fukudome going away without us paying the majority of those contracts.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're absolutely right on Soriano
The other two guys might be tradeable if Hendry takes on equally bad contracts.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but that
doesn’t give us any additional payroll room.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, taking on equal contracts solves nothing.
I only see moving one of those three at the deadline to a team with a need and either no prospects or none they are willing to move.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not true at all
The Hundley trade is a great example. That was a payroll swap where a change of scenery worked for the Cubs.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, I don't disagree
that it could help the cubs. It just doesn’t help us free up payroll.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct, but I can't always count on other GM's being
stupid and looking to move high character long term guys with expiring contracts in exchange for multiyears of d-o-n-e.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There may not be a clear line between buying and selling
because, you’re not going to sell a lot of the pieces on our club anyway.
The one player I would make available right now, though, is Alfonso Soriano. Quietly, I would tell the Mets that if they wanted him, I could sell him. They might not want him and that would be that. But he’s got the one contract I really would want to shed.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we could get the Mets to take him for another five years
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there's a very good chance they wouldn't take him.
But they might be desperate enough and I’m not going to ask for a lot in return.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you're right
That would be great. But I bet the Cubs would have to pay part of the contract.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a good question
However, I don’t really know who you could shed this season that would help matters. So many of the guys from this year’s team are locked in for next season. I could see the Cubs trading Lilly by the deadline if they lost 10 in a row, but otherwise, I don’t see what trades the Cubs could make during the year to start the rebuilding process and rearrange things for 2010.
They could try to trade Harden, but he’s probably gone next year anyway. Trading some of the younger guys, Marmol, Theriot, Soto, etc., wouldn’t be that helpful because losing them wouldn’t clear much payroll.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By sell, I don't believe many guys bring anything back. In some cases,
Bradley, Soriano, Fukudome, (if Hendry worked past the NTC’s), it would be “I will give you this player if you take the contract” and receive nothing, or close to it, in return.
Trading the Soto’s, Marmol’s, and Theriot’s may put playes in the minors, but creates more problems in Chicago. Where’s the dough to sign a free agent to fill those spots?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
1. Marshall is the only LHP out of the bullpen
2. As Drew pointed out above, Marshall is also a spot-starter….not dominate…but he’s an innings eater ala Marquis.
3. DeRosa is overrated by Cubs fans. He’s 34 and prone to a 2nd half collapse.
by Neifi Puppy on Jun 29, 2009 10:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Prone to a second half collapse?
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano is 33...
Should we expect him to collapse too (cant get much lower than he is i guess)? Derrek Lee is gonna be 34, should we expect him to collapse too?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 29, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there statistical evidence that DeRo is prone to a second half collapse?
It doesn’t look like it. His career 1st half OPS is .775, 2nd half .767.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 29, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned Marshall several times in other threads...
…as someone I thought the Indians would be interested in. He’s young, LH, a starter, and already pitched decently enough in the majors. To me, as an Indians fan, that’s what I would have been looking for to help my team for next year and beyond. Throw in a minor league arm (Class A raw power inconsistent type) and I would have driven DeRosa to Pittsburgh myself.
But as a Cubs fan, no way. First of all, Marshall is the only non-closer arm in that bullpen I can depend on this season. And I still have hopes for this season. I still think Lou needs to get smarter on how to use Marshall in the pen, but he’s getting the job done. And as for next year and beyond – who knows how the Cubs starters will shake out. It’s nice to have Marshall around to fill in as needed.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2009 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I completely agree.
Am I jealous the hated Cards found a way to secure a guy we like and would solve a current roster hole? Yes.
Marshall has a lot of years left and is needed this year and next.
If we’re talking Hart & Guzman, I probably say yes.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I woulda given them
spellcheck before Guzman.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't he have a full NTC as per us luring him away from playing football?
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but a chance to get back into the show might have incited him to give it up.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have driven spellcheck to Cleveland, but I didn't mention him because of the NTC.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm of the thought that the backloaded contracts the team will have to
deal with in 2010 make a cost controlled lefty swingman exactly what the roster needs going forward.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 29, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. Doesn't make any sense to giveup Marshall for half a season of
a career utility player.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Derosa's current numbers are destroying our mega=paid all stars
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is playing very good this season, so far. I agree.
But for us to be good, we need MB, Soriano and Fuku to hit. Unless DeRo is a saint who can sprinkle holy water on those three to make them better, he is of no use.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking playing time and removing pressure off of those in the line up that can't seem to handle it
Is about as good as that holy water in my book.
Unfortunately, he’s not coming, so I guess the point is mute.
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's right
we can’t hear it. :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the love of Benjamin Franklin
THE WORD IS “MOOT”!!!!
“Mute” means you can’t or won’t talk.
This is almost as annoying as that whole “looser/loser” thing and I nearly went to the clocktower with the sniper’s rifle and the pantyhose on my head over that one.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoa
chill, Worf. Today is not a good day to die.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he aiming at you?
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 29, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hope not
And I only responded for the sake of making a Klingon joke.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
darn, missed the reference
And i love me some TNG
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 29, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, Worf chill.
If its any consolation, I won’t ever make the mistake again
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you are taking about the same DeRosa
that botched an easy DP ball and hit into double plays in the post season? And now suddenly he is very best to handle pressure? He was tighter than farnsworth’s pants in the playoffs and now he is Mr.Cool huh?
I don’t understand all this love for mediocrity. I am not saying that he is a bad player. But unless he is a Manny Ramirez, Albert Pujols or a Matt Holiday DeRo cannot cure our ills. We will not go anywhere if MB, Soriano and Fuku continue to suck after acquiring DeRosa and if ARam is not back 100%. But on the other hand if those three get back to their career averages then we can say DeRosa..Who?
So DeRosa is absolutely useless to cure our current ills.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely useless?
That’s a bit much. But you’re right — getting DeRo wouldn’t have helped if the other guys don’t come around. And that might be Hendry’s line of thinking (or part of it, anyway).
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
by "absolutely useless" I mean, he is absolutely useless to make
Soriano, MB and Fuku to hit better.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he makes THE LINEUP better
He can make Sori, MB and Fuku’s troubles a little less damaging. And he can play MB’s position in case Bradley flips out (possible) or gets hurt (probable)
If he bats 2nd, he can improve the pitches Soriano gets. If he bats 6th (where I’d put him) then he can knock in Lee, Ramirez and Soto.
A lineup of
Soriano
Theriot
Lee
Ramirez
Soto
DeRosa
Fukudome
Hoff/Bradley
Pitcher
Looks fairly good.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No that doesn't look good.
With an under performing Soriano with a bad knee, Ramirez with a highly questionable shoulder, Fukudome on his downward spiral, Mightily struggling Bradley, that lineup still looks like crap.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So your solution
is not to get ANY hitting help, because Soriano, Ramirez and Fuku and MB are beyond help?
That sounds awfully like a lost season to me.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it is a lost season if Soriano, Fuku and MB continue to suck
and if ARam isn’t back. DeRo can do nothing to save it.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't see the flaw there?
What if two of them come back, but the other two don’t? DeRosa would be able to help then.
You’re assuming they all will suck or all won’t suck. That’s ridiculous.
DeRosa can also play ARam’s spot AND Bradley’s spot in case of injury or slump.
He is a human Swiss Army knife.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Cubs are betting that enough of those four guys
… and Soto, IMO, will rebound to the point where DeRo wasn’t worth the price of losing Marshall. I think that was a worthy gamble — except that our inaction resulted in DeRo going to our biggest rival.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Our inaction"
There’s no grounds to say that. We don’t know how hard Hendry pushed. We don’t know what Shaprio was willing to do. We don’t know how close the Orioles are to trading Ty Wigginton to whomever was next in line in the DeRosa trade sweepstakes.
It makes no sense to overpay for a player who is like other players on the market and only has 1/2 a season left on his contract.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
by "our inaction"
I’m assuming the Cubs could have gotten DeRo for Marshall and a prospect. The inaction was deciding NOT to do that.
You’re right that I’m assuming a lot.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inaction
1) Jim may not have had a decision.
2) Jim may have decided to let the Cardinals take DeRosa here because they could have been equally close to getting a comparable player, Ty Wigginton, for example. You may disagree with that decision, but it wouldn’t be “inaction.”
So, I’m not just nitpicking on the word “inaction” here. I’m also making a case that this is more complicated than just – did we get DeRosa or did they get DeRosa.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The facts of the case that we know are these:
1) The Indians asked for Sean Marshall and a prospect from the Cubs
2) The Indians RECEIVED Chris Perez and a PTBNL from the Cardinals.
3) This all took place one month before any decisions HAD to be made.
The evidence points to one of the following conclusions:
1) The Indians scouts loved Perez and didn’t like Marshall (or maybe the list of PTBNLs was better)
2) Hendry didn’t negotiate and simply walked away and didn’t properly gauge how desperate the Indians are to dump payroll
3) Hendry irritated Shaprio to the point where Shapiro screwed him by sending DeRosa to the division leader.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are those really the only possible conclusions?
Also, did the Indians make a formal offer, or were they just talking in general.
There’s a big difference between Shapiro saying, “We’ll trade DeRosa for Marshall and Hart” and “So, would you consider giving up Marshall in a DeRosa trade?”
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Right on. I just don’t understand how everyone thinks that DeRo is the numero uno right now. I didn’t agree with the trade in the off-season but once he is traded away (for a good return), it doesn’t make one darn baseball sense to try to get him for half a season.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not?
Why wouldn’t we view half a season of DeRo the same way we would half a season with a player who wasn’t a Cub last year?
I don’t get the distinction.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because, given our situation
he is not worth Marshall and another prospect.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK -- I understand your opinion there
I misunderstood what you were saying because of “once he is traded away.”
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask yourself this.
Would I give up Sean Marshall for Ty Wigginton or Jorge Cantu?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have to..
at least sleep on Cantu.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 29, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Cantu has more potential upside than Wigginton
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 29, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OR...
he wasn’t expecting the Indians to accept a bag of balls over a month before the trading deadline.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially because they asked the Cubs
for much more than a bag of balls in Marshall.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he "expected". If not him personally, the front office
surely (corroborated by published reports) would have called Shapiro’s office to get the asking price. Given the price and the combination of our current issues and DeRosa’s perceived value (in the context of what we need), I think Hendry made the right decision.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not true
His OPS+ for the season is 105.
He may be doing better than most of our starters, but he is what he is. A slightly above average hitter who can adequately play multiple positions.
He would not have saved the Cubs and he will not make the Cards runaway with the division
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 29, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you discredit my point by posting his OPS+???
I think not. Adding a guy who would be leading your team in RBI’s, HR’s…etc would definitely be an improvement. It’s not adding Manny, but the psychological bonuses for adding Dero to our clubhouse would have been unreal
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just sayin' DeRosa is a slightly above average player
The psychological bonuses of adding DeRo wouldbe unreal? – That is an opinion that I don’t share
Soriano currently has more HR, 14, than DeRosa , 13, and I would bet that Soriano, Lee and Rameriz all end up with more HR that DeRosa by the end of the year.
DeRosas RBI are a a function of the Indians ahead of him getting on base. I gaurantee you if her were on the Cubs all year he would not have 50 RBI
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 29, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having watched the games this season....getting guys on base hasn't been the issue
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Good lefties are worth twice their weight in gold. I wouldn’t trade him unless another team gets so desperate that it makes an utterly ridiculous offer that’s too good to refuse. Marshall for DeRo does more harm than good at this point, for both the present and the future. Now, if Cleveland would have taken Neal Cotts, that would be a different story.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Jun 29, 2009 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Tally so far
Four would make the trade, six wouldn’t.
I count myself in the four, but I wouldn’t have if DeRo had ended up with a team not in Milwaukee or St. Louis.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, what kind of logic is that?
Again — thank God the people here don’t run a big-league franchise.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No but is tempting
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 29, 2009 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And as for the vote
no
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 29, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I should have done a poll
Oh, and before anyone beats me to it — TWSS.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I attached a poll to this post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 29, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al ... can you add one more option
“Yes if it meant keeping DeRosa off the Cardinals or Brewers.”
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly does that situation play out?
I can’t imagine Hendry trying to have that conversation with Shapiro expecting to be taken seriously.
by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you understand what I'm saying
This is a total theoretical point. I’m not saying Hendry should have asked the question, or that he would have gotten an answer if he had.
But, knowing what we know now, would you be willing to give up Marshall to get DeRo and keep him off the Cardinals? I would (depending on the particulars of the rest of the deal).
And the Cubs DID know St. Louis was interested in DeRosa, FWIW.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have done it
Marshall isn’t meant to be a reliever in the big leagues. If you could even trade him for DeRo, I would have done it and called Samardzija back up. I still don’t get why he isn’t playing for the big club.
Rumor has it Alex Brown keeps Chris Simms' right index finger in his back pocket for good luck.
by HanelucaTC on Jun 29, 2009 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
because Samardzjia
has 1.5 pitches.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, true. I don't understand why in the world he was given a NTC. Dumb.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Potential
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know...
And let me preface this by saying that it isn’t directed at you really, why is that everyone is so hung up on Jeff’s NTC? I know he’s got some preferences about staying with the Cubs, but it’s very difficult to imagine a young player trying to block a trade that would help the big club, especially if it allows him to get back to the majors, where he can start adding to his service time. Am I missing something here?
by Damen Jackson on Jun 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly NTC was a big reason why Jeff7 chose baseball (over football)
and signed with the Cubs.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine...
But that was three years ago, when he was fast-tracking towards the majors. Now, he’s looking for a third pitch in the minors, and a trade probably allows him a chance to play. Not suggesting a trade, but I feel like people can’t just say “Well, he’s got a NTC, so we’re stuck with him”.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 29, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there was a trade rumor involving him last season
and his dad (If I remember correctly) pretty much told the media that there is less than a zero chance that Jeff7 will waive his NTC.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the dude just wants to play for the Cubs, regardless
He probably still has the confidence that he’ll get to the big leagues someday and this way he ensures that it will be with his favorite team, the Cubs. I’m guessing he’s not hurting for money, so why jump ship? Maybe he’s just a really big big fan.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also
Had a 2.26 ERA in 26 appearances last season. To me, that shows he is capable of pitching in the majors. I know he got roughed up early this season, but that seemed to be a trend with most of the Cubs roster.
Rumor has it Alex Brown keeps Chris Simms' right index finger in his back pocket for good luck.
by HanelucaTC on Jun 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're wrong..
But that’s cool. None of those pitches are able to consistently get major league hitters out yet. Haven’t checked in on him in a month or so, but I’d feel better if he could at least start spotting that fastball with more regularity.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 29, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has been alright in the minors
but by no means dominating, or performing up to a level that he should be the next guy called up if performance is the only metric. Too many outings with a lot of walks and hits, despite not that many runs given up.
by madcow256 on Jun 29, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm a no as well
Can’t do that trade without another lefty in the bullpen
"I won't be like A-Rod" - Z, 3/17/09
by Ihatethecards on Jun 29, 2009 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way.
Marshall is a very good pitcher that is very valuable to the Cubs. As much as I would’ve loved DeRo back in town, I wouldn’t have traded Marshall straight up.
by kanderber on Jun 29, 2009 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would have...
Especially that he’s been effectively reduced to a LOOGY here. I can pick that guy up at the deadline, no problem.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would not have done it.
Marshall may have a limited role right now, but that will change I expect.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now if ONLY Jeff Stevens were a lefty
We could have traded Marshall and been able to replace him with an actual LOOGY
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about maximizing our _current_ talent while we work our way out of struggles
I wouldn’t mind swapping Bradley with Soriano in the lineup. Even during the ongoing struggles, Bradley still has a great eye. The one thing that frustrates me is Lou not doing anything major with the lineup just to shake things up.
Bradley
Fukudome/TheRiot
Lee
Soriano
Fox
Soto
TheRiot/Fukudome
Blanco
Pitcher
Forget about the Left-Righty crap for a few days.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sure, but let's move Soriano down to remove him from spotlight
Fukudome/TheRiot
Bradley
Lee
Soriano/Fox
Fox/Soriano
Soto
TheRiot/Fukudome
Blanco
Pitcher
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
works for me
though I wouldn’t mind seeing Micah with more at-bats
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a great time to move Sori back to the 3-spot
because he can’t go into any worse of a slump.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley leading off intrigues me
I like that lineup a lot.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the rumors are true
that people in the clubhouse are upset with Bradley for taking walks instead of swinging at borderline pitches then they should be elated if he does that in the leadoff position.
by cubsnlinux on Jun 29, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to add here
That I’m still not convinced Shapiro would trade DeRosa back to the Cubs as long as he had comparable offers from other clubs on his table. It’s one thing for him to ask about Marshall. It’s another to pull the trigger on the trade while knowing he could get something very close from another team. You have to know that if you trade back to the team that first traded the article on the trade will read at some point, “GM Mark Shapiro traded Mark DeRosa back to the team he traded from to get him, receiving back a package of players less than the package he sent to acquire DeRosa.”
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now that makes some sense
At least Hendry can say he got three pitching prospects to show for all this.
Essentially, Shapiro would have traded three pitching prospects and Mark DeRosa for Sean Marshall.
At the end of the day, Shapiro still traded three pitching prospects and Mark DeRosa for Chris Perez and some Class A filler.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 29, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaprio can still look bad
but it’s not as obvious, and obvious counts for a lot these days.
Fwiw, I think Shaprio was right to buy in on this season. His team looked good. They’ve had a lot of underperforming players, though, and we can at least look at their under-performers and say, “We’re not in as bad a situation as they are this season.”
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he traded three pitching prospects for Chris Perez and a PTBNL.
DeRosa was on both sides of the equation so he cancels out, body-wise. Numbers-wise, Shapiro actually got almost a 1/2 season of good production out of it as a bonus.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing, only from Hendry's point of view
He traded DeRosa away for three so-so prospects, and would have to send back a relatively proven major league lefty starter to get him back for half a season. Plus possibly a ptbnl. That looks like a sell low, buy high deal to me.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
by davidalanu on Jun 29, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're assuming of course that Marshall + whoever will end up being less than the three he sent to the Cubs
I don’t think you can make that assumption at this point.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would of made the deal
start him at 3rd until Ramy gets back, then to 2nd.
But what is done is done, The team that is in Pittsburgh needs to wake up and start playing ball. Then all of the trade stuff can go away for awhile.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 29, 2009 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree
I just think this is an interesting discussion about what the Cubs value. It might show a little about Hendry and Co.’s thought process for the rest of the season.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they would
take Miles salary with Marshall I would have probably done it. Marshall isn’t a reliever and is a fringe starter (imo). If we dumped Miles contract the salary difference would be a wash.
We’s need a lefty reliever, but that’s probably easier to obtain than a plus bat.
Moot point though.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 29, 2009 12:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland wouldn't have done that
IMO
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
Hendry can take on dollars, so he’d have to do something along those lines to make a deal.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 29, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez is more valuable than Marshall
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 29, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not to this bullpen
he’s not.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez was the No. 3 prospect in the Cards' organization
Not saying he’s necessarily more valuable than Marshall, but he’d be nice to have.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I don’t know how we’d get him, but my point is that you have to address what you’re giving up on YOUR team. Chris Perez may be a better pitcher than Marshall, but for THIS team, giving Marshall up leaves critical holes in the pen and the rotation.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's also an important question from Cleveland's perspective
If the Indians were offered Marshall and a prospect or Perez and a prospect, it’s possible they would have turned the Cubs down. Maybe Perez has a bigger upside, or the Tribe was more concerned about getting a right-hander.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On this I agree with you
Perez is relatively young, and he has closer potential.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don't really know, honestly
It’s possible the Indians really wanted a lefty, but Hendry was unwilling to deal.
by elgato on Jun 29, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez' value
This article by Erik Manning claims
The Cardinals gave up one pitcher that is worth more than the three the Indians traded to obtain DeRosa’s services by trading Chris Perez, who has been regarded by most prospect watchers as a top 100 talent.
Now I don’t think I agree with that first claim, but it’s at least out there by a guy published on a smart site.
Oh, and a heads up – no reason for any Cub fans to read the first paragraph of that article.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course I had to read it after that
I was ok with it
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 29, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely not.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 29, 2009 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You took the words right out of my mouth
DeRosa is a rental. Cleveland got a pitching prospect; a promising one. Not saying this Perez won’t ever be a better pitcher than Marshall, but Marshall is currently more than a promising pitching prospect and he’s the lefty out of the bullpen. Lou could also use Marshall for long relief if he wanted to and Marshall could step in as a 5th starter again if that becomes necessary. Marshall wouldn’t have been a rental. Cleveland wasn’t looking to take on payroll and wanted pitching, so only a prospect in return for DeRosa was needed.
by AboutTheCubs on Jun 29, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously people
DERO IS NEVER COMING BACK!!!!! WE WERE ALSO THAT CLOSE TO PEAVY BUT WE DIDN’T GET HIM!!!!!
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 29, 2009 5:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
does July 10, 2009, ring a bell?
Oh, and never say never….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 29, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God, that was a BAAAAAAAD movie...
Kim B. was nice to look at though…
…but that’s about all…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 30, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nooooooooooooo Way
Half a season of DeRosa<<<<<<<<<<3-4 years of Marshall
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 29, 2009 10:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Consider this, however.
Many people here like the three pitchers the Cubs got for DeRosa in the first place, and think that one or more of them would help the Cubs in future seasons.
If a Marshall/DeRosa deal had been made, essentially you’d have been trading Marshall for the three pitchers. That doesn’t sound like such a bad tradeoff, does it?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
it does.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me put in this way
In my book, Gaub/Archer/Staub>Marshall>DeRosa in terms of present and future value.
by Poloplaya14 on Jul 2, 2009 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It all depends
on what else it would cost. I’ve got a hard time buying that they would’ve valued Marshall that high when they have young lefties in Aaron Laffey and David Huff, both of whom are somewhat similar.
Look, if it was Marshall alone, I make that deal, and I like Marshall. That said, overpaying for DeRosa, when the team has financial limitations, a limited system to make moves, and what appears, on paper, to be several needs is something I’m not so sure on. I loved DeRosa here and would’ve liked to have him back, but with Fox getting rub at 3rd, and Aramis working his way back, do you sell out for DeRosa, even if you get a supplemental pick back? The Cardinals gave up a solid amount of talent – they also have a deeper, and better, system than the Cubs.
by toonsterwu on Jun 30, 2009 1:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No
They’re already questionable in the ‘pen.
The Cubs have no other ’pen Southpaws.
Rami is due back soon.
They’re 2 games out of 1st in the “L” column with all their issues.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Jun 30, 2009 8:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm really torn on this...
…because I’ve liked Sean Marshall since he was brought up in ‘06. But I also recognize – and appreciate – the depth that Mark DeRosa provided. A depth that this year’s team has sorely lacked.
I also think this year’s team has really missed DeRo’s bat at the bottom of the order. He was a guy who could bat seventh or eighth and still drive in runs. You’re just not going to get too much of that in an Andres Blanco (whom I really like defensively) or Ryan Freel. (As a sidenote: It looks like LaRussa sees DeRo as a top/middle of the order guy, and I wonder whether that’s going to put too much pressure on Mark.)
On the other hand, maybe the window for really needing DeRosa has/had passed. Jake Fox seems to be establishing himself at third base (where DeRo’s career UZR numbers are really pretty bad), Aramis is almost back and perhaps Sam Fuld can at least provide some defensive insurance should Bradley go down again.
I may have done a DeRo for Marshall deal earlier in the season, but perhaps Cleveland just wasn’t ready then or maybe they wouldn’t have wanted him to begin with.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 30, 2009 10:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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