Jim Hendry - Go or No?
Is Jim Hendry the best qualified person to be GM of the Chicago Cubs?
Personally, I have been a fan of Jim Hendry’s. I think he has made some of the best trades in Chicago Cubs history. However, there comes a point when all things must past and I am wondering if the Cubs might benefit from some front office changes. I honestly do not have a set opinion on this matter, but, I am very upset by the ’09 Chicago Cubs. It’s starting to feel like the last year or two of Dusty Baker’s reign. As a fan, it feels like the Cubs are a chicken with its head cut off. They seem lost… whether it’s the players fault, the manager’s fault, the GM’s fault, or all of their faults… it doesn’t matter. I want the Chicago Cubs to win this season, and it’s not too late. But some changes need to be made because this team will not win it. Will Hendry make any changes? Are the Cubs going to just shrug their shoulders and go home with their tail between their legs?
What does Hendry need to do to turn this team around?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Jim Hendry's '09 Cubs were projected by nearly every baseball pundit (if not every)
to run away with the NL Central. So find me the guy who disagreed and maybe he should become the new GM. But this team looked good to everyone pre-season.
Pre-season, I thought Hendry was to be faulted for failing to get a SS/3B backup. That’s come to bite us, but it’s not a firing offense.
There were plenty who preferred one of Dunn/Ibanez/Abreu to Bradley. But I don’t think the Cubs were going to outbid the Phils on Ibanez, and they made a choice to have the better defensive player given the uncertainty they had in CF. I still think that was smart thinking at the time, although it’s not looking so good now.
I also thought it was smart to have a 75-game clause on Bradley’s 3rd year, but it looks like that has come back to bite us, with Bradley playing in a physical condition he would have sat through before.
Right now I think the team really needs a four corners guy like Aubrey Huff to give Bradley more time to sit and then hit. But saying we need that and actually being able to acquire it for the right price is difficult. It’s hard to fault Hendry at this point in the season as we wait for things to play out.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 29, 2009 12:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I thought the 75 game clause...
… was a little low. maybe 125 would have been better. 75 games isn’t even half the season. So basically, Bradley would have got that 3rd year if he played in only half the games. In my opinion, that isn’t a good option.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Raising the game clause could have made things worse
if he kept playing through injuries and got angry if he was asked to sit.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
then we should have never signed him in the first place
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 29, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
which is 20-20 hindsight.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
But...
…how could we not see this coming?
haha… i’m a goob… but I predicted MB would be a failure. All of these guys in suits, who have all of these charts, doctors, etc… giving them all of these stats, how could they NOT have seen this?
If MB doesn’t turn around, this is going to be a major blemish in Hendry’s career.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
seriously? Milton has put up good numbers. There was every reason to expect he’d go on the DL at some point, but there were NO reasons to expect he would hit like this.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Very true.
It was reasonable to assume he’d hit 18 HR, 65 RBI and bat .300 over 100 games.
That he’d be active for most games and the bat would never meet the ball is beyond anything that could be expected from his career.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I'd basically agree to that...
but 30 million is much to costly for that type of player.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont even think is reasonable
Seeing as he’d only hit in the teens (HRS) 3 times in his career and over 100 games three times, twice of which were in the AL and he’d only been over 60 RBI twice.
If this guy was a pitcher with a similar career arch, would it have been a good move? You cant base an entire off season on an acquisition like this and think ‘oh, well this time he will be different’
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I think there might have been some...
I may be wrong, but I do believe there are a few red flags which might affect his hitting
1. More pressure being a Cub than a Ranger, plus pressure of living up to his contract
2. playing the field everyday will bring more wear and tear, especially more day games…
3. Was last season a fluke year? His stats last year where higher than normal weren’t they?
I may be wrong, but these are things that could boggle the mind of one Milton Bradley.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I say time for a change, but...
Keep in mind that I think a new owner would probably shake up things anyway. Hendry has basically been running unchecked with little interference. While this did not matter in 2007 or 2008 because the Cubs won the division, it’s come back to bite him because he’s employed the same strategy that he has been doing and that’s to throw money at the problem. Hendry pursued Bradley and missed the Peavy sweepstakes (good thing imho).
Hendry increased the payroll and did not address the problems the Cubs had in the playoffs last season. He actually made them worse. Up until the end of August 2008, the Cubs were the best team in baseball without question. Things did not look great when they started skidding in September and then crashed and burned in the playoffs. How much of that had to do with Jim Hendry? Reed Johnson and Jim Edmonds were great signings that did not cost us much. The Rich Harden deal was great last year. Those were good moves. The problem with the 2008 Cubs is the same problem with the 2009 Cubs: a lack of depth. No one noticed the lack of depth when every Cubs starter was having a career year and the whole 100 years thing created a frenzy.
People notice that lack of depth now. Hendry noticed we had problems, but rather than making the needed moves, he made the wrong moves. Hindsight definitely comes into play here for most of the moves, but not with Milton Bradley. If the Cubs needed a feared left-handed batter that could drive in a lot of runs, Adam Dunn was the guy. His defense isn’t great, but neither is Soriano’s. The bullpen issues were not entirely addressed, but no one could have predicted that Kevin Gregg would actually work out for us more than Carlos Marmol is. A lot needs to be done that you can’t fix in the middle of a season.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 29, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
the fact that Soriano's defense sucks
… isn’t a defense for signing someone who would have been a disaster in right.
never minding
that it’s not a fact.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not a defense
But when you’ve got a LF not pulling his weight at all, all of a sudden having a RF that would at least pull his weight offensively sounds pretty good.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
No, lack of depth is the reason...
…they may not make the playoffs this season.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
That's not what he said though. Ace Venom said that depth is the reason
they fell apart last year, which isn’t the case. That’s what I was refering to. And depth isn’t the reason they would fail this year. If Sori was being Sori, and Soto was being what he was last year, we’d be alright right now even without ARam. There are other issues than depth alone.
I think you nailed it
Though I dont think lack of depth was a reason for our downfall against the dodgers. The team seemed completely different from the moment that series started, perhaps it was the pressure of the 100 years or the pressure of expectations off an amazing season, but they didnt seem relaxed whatsoever. So I dont know how a better bench wouldve helped….perhaps using Lilly wouldve been a better idea.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Besides the point...but...
I’ve noticed that the FanPost turnover ratio grows exponentially as the Cubs do worse. If all of the FanPosts (mine is set at showing 10) have been published within 24 hours, the Cubs are on a slide. If all of them are within 16 hours, a sizeable losing streak is occurring. If all are within 5 hours, we’re struggling in the playoffs. Within 1 hour, we probably just got eliminated from the postseason.
It’s science.
Free Ronny Cedeno
SCIENCE FTW!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought I read this post yesteday
And the day before….and the day before that….and so on?
by ak123 on Jun 29, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
so is coming into a fanpost, merely to bitch that it was written
yet that continues to happen as well. The number of people who behave as if they HAVE to read, everything that’s written on here is beyond ridiculous
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 29, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
chill out
If you did… i apologize. I’ll delete the post if Al wants me too. I didn’t mean to cause any problems. I’m not on the site every single day so it’s hard to know who has posted what.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I just saw a post...
…where someone wanted Jim to resign. I never said that. I’m just asking if it’s time for him to move on. Still, sorry to bug ya. Just skip my post and move on.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Its hard to skip posts
when 10 of the same topic are posted in a 24 hr period. Realize that not everybody cares about what you have to say.
exactly
not everybody cares about what you have to say.
thats why i asked some questions and asked for people to give their opinions. Big difference.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats fine,
I’m just saying that one post about Hendry is fine. We don’t need a bunch of different people getting on their soapboxes, or if you feel the need to do so, then just comment under another fanpost.
no, it's really not
it takes no skill whatsoever, to skip over a headline
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 29, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It's certainly understandable...
that you don’t stop by as frequently as some, but it wouldn’t hurt to do a quick search on “jim hendry” to see if something has been posted recently. I believe there have been 4 in the last few days.
Free Ronny Cedeno
your post
is way better than the other posts anyway.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks.
I’m not trying to force my point/opinion. I just want the Cubs to win and am wondering if Jim Hendry is the piece of the puzzle that can really bring that to Chicago. I like Jim… I think he’s a great guy… but is he the one to bring us a World Series title? Thanks again.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
rec'd
I haz comedy show in August. You come seez it please?: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Jun 29, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe
he must go at the end of the season if they do not make the playoffs.
I will also state that this too shall pass when Ramirez, Soriano, and Bradley all hit up to their capability. And this will happen. The problem has been an inconsistent and anemic offense all year.
See, thats another assumption
Ramirez has already reported shoulder pain/soreness, there is no reason to expect he’s going to be anywhere near normal when he returns.
This year could very well be the inverse of last; last year saw career years from many guys, perhaps this year will be career lows for many others
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
nope
he reported his soreness as the type of soreness when you lift weights hard for the first time. This pain subsides quickly.
I went through a shoulder dislocation in-season while in college. After rehab, I was 100% and did not lose power or bat speed. The rehab process includes more weight training for the shoulder specific muscles, so when he takes the field, he will be 100% strength-wise.
Wow, let's hope.
I’ve heard differing assessments from others, though.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
the thing I worry about
is fielding—diving for another ground ball or jumping and reaching up for a line drive. Those quick movements will hurt a lot more than any swings of the bat.
That's a good point.
He may be much more hesitant defensively.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Right, but you werent a major league player
so the variables are different on the field and in terms of his own physiology. I think we’re setting our selves up for great disappointment if we expect the Aramis of old at any point in 2009.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
okay, well
I am telling you as a D-I baseball player who went through a dislocation in-season and came back from it what to expect. I do not believe for a minute that he will lose power from his dislocation. Unless his shoulder is shredded and will have a major recontruction this off-season. From everything I’ve read, this is not the case.
Each injury is different, I get that.
It couldve been worse for sure
Like a wrist, but I dont have high hopes for his second half, it looked pretty ugly when he was leaving the field
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I Almost Think it's time for Lou to go
If this team misses the postseason both might have to go. But I do think Hendry especially is wearing out his welcome.
by Sam Householder on Jun 29, 2009 1:25 PM CDT reply actions
2009 Cubs are an inexcusable clusterfu*k
- $135 million payroll (3rd highest in baseball)
- Highest paid and most disappointing outfield in baseball
- Continued inepitude of the Cub farm system
- The inexcusable loss of DeRosa when he had $5.5 million left on his contract
- Dishing out $136 million on Soriano (THE worst contract in baseball right now)
- Dishing out $48 million on Fukudome, a clone of So Taguchi
- Dishing out millions on human feces and injury plagued Bradley
- The insane pursuit of Jake Peavy that fell short and therefore left an incomplete set of moves (dumping DeRosa, acquiring Olsen from Baltimore)
You DAMNED straight it is time to fire Jim Hendry. Take Crane Kenney and Piniella with him too.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
- Dishing out $48 million on Fukudome, a clone of So Taguchi
- Dishing out millions on human feces and injury plagued Bradley
Oh Lou. I like that not only are you wrong, you’re unapologetically prejudiced. Keep on keeping on, I guess.
other than the human feces comment
how is he wrong?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 29, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
So Lou Piniella can make stronger version of that reference point but I'm to be critiqued?
Hypocrites.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
you didn't read the posts
about that incident, then, because Lou was heavily criticized for it, and he apologized.
The list of offenses you should apologize for grows ever longer.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Flag me Gomer
CITIZENS ARREST, CITIZENS ARREST !!!!
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
it's the consistent lack of respect you give
that keeps people from taking you seriously, you know that, right?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
- Dishing out $48 million on Fukudome, a clone of So Taguchi
Fukudome and Taguchi have one thing in common, and it has nothing to do with baseball.
- Dishing out millions on human feces and injury plagued Bradley
It’s a little early to call the Bradley signing a failure (2.5 months into a 2-3 year deal), and calling him feces reveals more about BLou than i really need to say here.
I could care less your liberal offense to my calling out Bradley in a kinder term than what his manager used
If your sensibilities are offended, then don’t read the post. If you can’t understand the seething rage the majority of Cub fans have for one of the greatest disappointing teams in franchise history, then tough.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jun 29, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
How can I not read your posts? They're a trainwreck.
It’s like if you were driving down the highway, and a tanker filled with stupid crashed and spilled its contents all over the highway, causing another truck filled with wrong to explode into a flaming wreck, consuming a clown car filled with former college jocks still clinging to their past glories.
You can honestly tell me that you’d have the self-control not to look at that? Because I’m man enough to admit that I can’t.
by Wreckard on Jun 29, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
when we're
mathematically eliminated.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
10 games out on Labor Day
No one’s magic number is 0 but for all practical purposes it can be.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
I'd probably agree with that,
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
The feces comment can go
I called Bradley garbage and I was wrong. I see no other complaint, even though I wanted Soriano on this team.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Ah, it's because of the lack of
Saint De Rosa.
Of course, if the team (no matter who the GM is) did nothing since 2002 — you’d complain about that too, and call for his dismissal.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 29, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
You as well
You need to join them if they go, everyone would be much better for it.
Check out Veron Wells contract
Wells, Vernon Brian Peters( agent) 7 yr/$126M (08-14), 2009- $5,142,857, 2010-$16.143, 2011-$26.643, 2012- $24.643, 2013- $24.643, 2014- 24.643.
How about that nice deal, you think Soriano’s is bad.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Now that is looking at Soriano's contract as a glass half full.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
BLou's style is hyperbole to begin with, but this is an exaggeration of hyperbole, wrapped in absurdity.
- Payroll isn’t Jim Hendry’s fault; it’s just payroll.
- Otoh, the starting infielders are all underpaid.
- It’s not like we misplaced DeRosa; we decided to give Fontenot a shot after he hit like a premiere 2B in part-time work, and we got a good haul of pitchers in return.
- The Soriano contract is not half as bad as Zito, Sarge Jr., Juan Pierre, and others.
- Fukudome has much more talent than Taguchi; we just haven’t figured out how to use him consistently.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
is your icon
Z throwing the ump out? I think it is! I APPROVE!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
It is
but what I really like is the look on Lou’s face. The look on Lou’s face seems to sum up a lot about this season so far.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
bemused
amusement. What can I say? :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting rid of Hendry now
won’t get any changes on the team that require more money. Only resolution of the ownership issue could do that.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
I only want Hendry to go if Lou goes as well.
Both the GM and Manager should go at the same time and the new GM should be given the chance to find his guy.
I don’t dislike Hendry, but I don’t want him picking and signing the next 3-4 years of manager.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Good point
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I've never been more embarassed to be a Cubs fan than I am this season
This team’s performed below expectations, sure, but they’re a contending team which has a really good chance to improve (unless you believe all of the accomplished players on this team will continue to have career worst years).
People are referring to a team 3.5 games out of first in June as a clusterfuck, a lost cause, a disaster. Calling for Hendry to perform addition by subtraction, as though getting rid of Milton Bradley, Carlos Zambrano, or Alfonso Soriano will somehow improve them team. And now the vast majority of fans here are voting that Hendry should be replaced, for failing to foresee the unforeseeable, despite putting the Cubs in the playoffs 3 of the last 6 years, and putting together a team that was the heavy, heavy favorite to win the division.
To me, Cubs fans have shown this season they’re much more concerned with liking their team than wanting to win. This is Hendry’s big crime – replacing the attractive man-crush sweetheart everyman Mark Derosa with an angry black man who’s performed below expectations. Mark Derosa got a standing ovation in a pinch hit situation with the game on the line and the bases loaded this season for god’s sake. Bradley meanwhile never got a fair shake, and hasn’t really done anything so bad to merit the bile spewed his way by Cubs fans. He hasn’t performed, but neither have Fontenot, Soto, Fukudome, or Soriano – all of whom have failed to a similar (or greater) degree.
You people need to get a grip.
by Wreckard on Jun 29, 2009 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
they are only a contending team because of the division they play in
If we were in the NL West, or the AL East, we’d be calling the season a done deal.
“To me, Cubs fans have shown this season they’re much more concerned with liking their team than wanting to win.”
What a completely absurd comment, considering we’re sitting two games under .500 and not winning, and THAT has sparked the outrage.
Hendry’s big crime is having a horrendous offseason, and resting the team’s chances on players like Fontenot, Soriano, Fukudome, and Bradley
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 29, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't change the fact that this is the division they play in
It doesn’t matter how good Hendry makes the team they’re not going to win the AL East because they don’t play there.
so what?
we’re in the division we’re in.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
And the team is what it is
Which right now, is very mediocre.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 29, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
well
I prefer the term “under-performing.” :D
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
The point is, we're lucky
And the team might be worse than the standings indicate, which wouldnt bode well for success against the more tried and tested teams
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
If you can't play .500 baseball...
I don’t think you can honestly call yourself a contending team.
3.5 games out does indeed mean that we are not out of it. BUT, some changes have to be made if we are going to climb up and erase that. First things first, we have to be a .500 team. That’s not a given anymore… once we get back there, if we are still close, we are a contending team.
That’s my opinion.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's the records BTW
CENTRAL W L PCT GB
Milwaukee 46 33 .582 -
Chicago Cubs 39 39 .500 6.5
St. Louis 35 41 .461 9.5
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
that was a 500 team
I said first things first. You get to 500… then you go from there. I dont see any faulty logic there. If you think the division is going to be won by a team below .500, then that’s your opinion. I don’t see that happening.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
.500 is just a hypothetical number
By your logic the Cubs are only in contention when their record is > .500 but not in contention when their record is .500 or below. But in all that time, they’ve been nearly a consistent 3-4 GB and 1 or 2 back in the “L” column. Your logic is flawed.
They have to finish better than the other teams, not a prescribed W-pct. Yeah, we’d all like to see .610, .620 or .630 but it won’t happen.
Like a group of hikers coming across a bear and running. If I’m one of those hikers, I don’t have to out run the bear, I only have to out run you.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Its not...
… unless you believe the Cards and Brewers are going to finish below .500.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It is....
They just have to finish ahead of StL & Milw (plus the other 3). I don’t care if they win 80 or 90. In order for the Cubs to win the division they have to be one better.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Exactly right...
I never said anything other…
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless the bear wants the honey in your pocket
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
So you didn't answer my original question
This time in 2007 they were about double the number of GB and triple the number of GB in the “L” column. Yeah, they were at that magical .500 and no, you didn’t know what was going to happen. But because they were .500 on 6/29/2007 and 6 games back in the “L” column they were more of a contending team than on 6/29/2009 and 2 games back in the “L” column.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
dude
… i think your on an island somewhere all by yourself. chill out
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
You're on the island
You said they have to be .500 to be a contending team, not me.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Here, you'll like this one
Check out the NL West standings:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings?date=20050829&type=reg
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
What does that have to do with the Cubs? Nothing!
Dude, your point is right… the Cubs do have to finish one game above other teams to win the division. Geez… i’ve never see anybody argue such an obvious point. However, I just said they need to get to 500 first. I’m right, your right…
Let me offer you a totally vain fact to show how right my arguement is, just like you did… How many teams in the history of MLB have went to the playoffs finishing with a below .500 record?
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
The difference
IMO, Is coming off of back to back divison champs, a 97 win team, to the team on the field right now that looks like the Cubs won 77 games instead of 97 the previous year.
I, at this point of the season see nothing that gives me hope that it will turn around. I see a .500 type ballclub the rest of the summer. Just my observation
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
So we were a contending team a week ago...
but now we’re not? And when we hit .500 again, we will be? Faulty logic.
I don’t think we need to make many changes. We just need players to play like they should.
Free Ronny Cedeno
+1 on that last part
BTW, I think some changes are needed but you’re dead-on with “playing like they should”.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
no its not
Its called first things first. I believe your wrong if you believe a below .500 team is going to win the division. As of right now, that is what the Chicago Cubs are. I’m calling it as it is. The Cards will not finish below .500, nor the Brewers. Unless something drastic happens and some people get injuried. What we have today is not cutting it… if you want to wait see everybody play like it’s 2008, then feel free. But what we have is not getting the job done. Change is needed… somewhere, something…
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
You make no sense.
Many teams that were, at one point, under .500 win their divisions.
Free Ronny Cedeno
Exactly
Only, they played about .500 ball. That’s what I have been saying…. If the Cubs continue to be what they are now, a sub-.500 team, then there is no way they’ll win. That makes planty of sense.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
So your point was...
that a sub .500 team playing sub .500 ball will be playing sub .500 ball. Got it.
Free Ronny Cedeno

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes you can, so long as your team is in the 2009 NL Central
The only change that needs to be made is the team’s performance regressing to the mean. We’re playing so far below abilities that simply doing that would amount to them becoming a powerhouse overnight.
Oh, I don't know.
I still think losing 14 in a row to start the 1997 season is a bit worse/ more embarrassing than the current situation. After all, that season was over by April 20th. But, we have short memories here.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 29, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not embarrassed of the team
I still think this team will win the division.
I’m embarrassed of the fans.
Division, maybe
but does it matter? They will be easily outclassed by the Phillies, Dodgers, or Mets if they are lucky enough to make the post season.
The journey is the reward!
That's what everyone said about the 2006 Cardinals
The best team doesn’t always win in the playoffs, you just need to get there.
agree
…as of right now, it doesn’t look like we’ll be getting there. Still, I hope things change and we do… Its just a scary time right now!
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The black swan..
there are probably hundreds of examples the other way. Of course you are right, anything could happen.
The journey is the reward!
What scares me is Hendry thinks
all that good that could happen will happen when Rami returns. That’s what scares me.
It’ll be disguised as a “trade” they made since Rami would have been gone more than 2 months by the time he gets back.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
agreed
… the same person that felt the moves during the last offseason were great moves, believes that ARam will be the answer when he returns.
That is scary.
It also worries me that it’s putting too much pressure on ARam to return early, and will put too much pressure on him to perform his A game when he probably wont be able too. That’s scary also!
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Got the winning Powerball numbers for Wednesday?
Since you’re so good at predicting the future, I mean.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
There were little expectations on that 1997 team while World Series aspirations were affixed the 2009 Cubs
Emphasize the word “were.”
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
This is Hendry’s big crime – replacing the attractive man-crush sweetheart everyman Mark Derosa with an angry black man
So everyone who dislikes Milton Bradley or is upset at the dismal results of his performance so far this season is a racist? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re saying there.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
No.
But to deny that there’s any racial component to the fan and media’s treatment of Bradley, or their love of “scraptastic” guys like Derosa is naive.
so because i dont like bradley because of his anger, tendancy to be injured, and because hes not performing so far im a racist?
by jesus christos on Jun 29, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's the problem that I have with statements like this
There is still racism and prejudice in this country. In some places, it is to a sickening extreme. While it is better here than it is in a lot of other countries, that does not excuse it.
I could live to be 100, and I’ll never understand how someone can believe that thinking that way makes sense. People have missed opportunities, been disadvantaged or even physically injured/killed because of race . . .it’s tragic.
However, making statements like “people don’t like this ballplayer because he’s black” completely trivializes the issue. It’s looking for trouble, it’s avoiding issues that the individual has brought on himself and it’s total bullcrap.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 29, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not at all what I said.
I said that there’s a racial component to the fan reaction and press coverage of him. I’m not saying that racism is the sole reason why Bradley is regarded the way he is.
There’s hundreds of reasons why Bradley is hated and covered the way he is; race is one of those hundreds of reasons. Just look at the posts about him around here: whenever people half-remember the details of a Bradley altercation, they always make them more violent then the situations actually were. This is at least in part due to the way reporters describe these altercations, always using words that make the situations sound more threatening and violent than they actually were.
I’m not saying that racism is this sinister overt reason why fans hate Bradley. But I think anyone who denies that there was any kind of racial component to the treatment of black Cubs such as Jacques Jones, Latroy Hawkins, Corey Patterson, Dusty Baker, and now Bradley is either being obtuse or naive.
And I stand by what I said
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 29, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
DeRosa was hardly scrappy
He could play, and play well….we’re not talking Adam Kennedy here
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Al PLEASE create the rant post
Please just create a post on here where everyone can rant. It’s the place they can go to for complaining. The rest of us who hate these kinds of posts will never go there. Please, this is getting ridiculous and it’s not going to end.
Don't you think it's at least a little humorous?
I do….I try my best not to take these rants serious but just look at them as a lot of kneejerk reactions and a LOT of frustration.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
It was humorous
But it’s getting old. And if we lose tonight, it’s going to get older.
Hendry
Hendry needs to go…unless you like the roster of 13 pitchers and 12 second basemen..
The journey is the reward!
So long as Freddie Bynum is out there still to be acquired Hendry has work to do !
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
Plain and simple:
Jim Hendry has more money locked up in horrible contracts than anyone I can think of right now.
His team is 2 games under .500, and has lost nine straight playoff games.
His farm system has been miserable at producing Major-League position players.
By any non-homer-apologist measure, he has failed and failed miserably. Only the desperation of Cubs fans used to scarcely getting a playoff berth can produce any apologetics here. It’s a big market, big system, and big payroll — and Hendry has locked this team into a bad position for this year and a couple more to come. A couple of winless playoff appearances shouldn’t suddenly make him untouchable – but it apparently has.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 2:31 PM CDT reply actions
well
the poll above would seem to disagree with your “homer” characterization. I, myself, voted for him to be replaced.
But there are plenty of Cubs minor-leaguers who are on this team. Soto, Riot, Marshall, Marmol, Fox, Hoffpauir, Blanco, etc. Gallagher and Murton got us Harden. Other minor-leaguers got us Ramirez.
And the team he built went to the playoffs two years in a row. When’s the last time a Cubs team went to the playoffs two years in a row?
You can’t blame him for this year if you’re not going to give him credit for last year.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
And of course, we can't blame prior GMs...
….for miserable years after a playoff berth. You know, cause that would be failing to credit them for their success.
So I take it you do NOT credit him for nine straight playoff losses, right?
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
you've missed the point
you want to heap blame on Hendry, but you don’t want to give him credit for building, for example, a 97-win team in 2008.
I find it VERY hard to blame Hendry for the team choking in the playoffs. That’s three games per season. It’s not like we never lost three in a row in 2008 during the regular season.
I think that they did make too many changes. But that DOESN’T mean that I don’t think that this team can contend.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
In a year where .500 teams...
are a game out of the playoffs, everyone CAN contend. I fear that this is, unfortunately, going to be the justification for the near and distant future that every GM uses to fight for their jobs.
I’ll give him credit for a 97-win team, which he then sought not to improve in the offseason, and instead downgraded – with full knowledge that his moves might work out very poorly (hence, the third year “escape” clause in Gamebore’s contract). he took a gamble, and lost badly. Now, that gamble looks to be one that will cost the Cubs for several years – a move not excused by a 97-win, one-and-out 2008.
But yes, he also gets the blame for fielding a team who could not hit in the playoffs, one year after they could not hit in the playoffs. And a guy with his team payroll should have more to show for it than he does.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
oh come on.
of course he sought to improve it. It hasn’t WORKED, but if you’re going to suggest that he deliberately downgraded the team, well, there’s no conversation to be had.
But yes, he also gets the blame for fielding a team who could not hit in the playoffs, one year after they could not hit in the playoffs. And a guy with his team payroll should have more to show for it than he does.
And right there is the justification for a shakeup.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm for the shakeup....
but where I differ with some folks is that I’m also all-for an auction – heck, a whole estate sale – to dump absolutely as much salary as possible, if possible at all.
Trade Harden to someone who needs him, but make them take Fukudome, too.
(I KNOW — it’s just an EXAMPLE – not an actual proposal).
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
"make them take"
in what world does this work? Seriously.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Fantasyworld?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 29, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup.
Never in history has a team been required to take a bad contract in order to acquire a desired player.
My bad for even pondering the very thought – which should not even be tried and summarily dismissed. Let’s just eat the contracts quietly.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
After all....
….NOBODY would take tood Hundley and Eric Karros.
Why the hell should we embarass ourselves by thinking otherwise….?
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that the key word was "make" them take Fukudome. Of course teams
take on bad contracts to get other players. You make it sound like we are going to force someone to take our unwanted garbage. It sounds a little bit fantasyworld the way you put it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 29, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Granted.
That’s why I caveated the idea with the “it’s just an EXAMPLE” comment.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
How much was Todd Hundley’s Contract for? Eric Karros?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Too much...
and waaaaay too much for anyone to consider taking them.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
take the money with him
It doesn’t really matter right now if he stays or go. The cubs have already locked up long term contacts for soriano, zambrano, dempster, bradley, fukudome and so on. that to me is a bigger concern than hendry staying or leaving. They have a lot of money going to players who haven’t achieved that money they signed for. The biggest being soriano and bradley, where it looks like hendry was bidding against himself, hence the over paid contracts for those two.
I'd love to see some salaries go, too
But I am assured that everything will just get better by itself if we sit tight.
Also, despite the fact that I’m told all the players will start playing better, apparently only Cubs fans know this, because those same people assure me that no other team is smart enough to see suc wisdom and make a play for any of these players who will have great second halves.
Me? I’d love to see an auction right now — and a play for next year.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 29, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, you're nuts
And I don’t mind telling you so.
Let’s wait until this season is over before worrying about next year.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, the present is paramount
He should be held accountable for the changes he made to the 2008 team, too much of what he relied on for 2009 was based on assumptions/projections.
Giving 30M dollars to a DH to play RF full time jettisoning an above average offensive secondbaseman in favorite of a platoon player. Ignoring Aaron Miles general inability to play Major League Baseball and Heilmans penchant for blowing leads, hiring scouts who think Tyler Colvin was a first round pick.
He has done a great job in the Lee and Ramirez trades, granted, but they were both fire sales, so he was dealing from a position of strength. But the 08 team was the most realistic shot at a title in decades, and he dismantled it all because of three games in October, when minor changes were all it really needed
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
except that this is all hindsight.
Miles was coming off a .300 season. And Bradley is NOT a DH, his numbers clearly show that. And Heilman has done fairly well of late.
I’m just saying, that in December of last year, what they had on their hands was an over-achieving team that choked in the playoffs, and they felt that they had to shake things up. I don’t disagree that many of these changes have failed to pan out so far, but the season isn’t over yet.
Note: I don’t think that Miles is going to get any better. Clearly, he’s fallen off. But I don’t think that Soriano and Bradley and Dome and Soto continue to underperform the entire year. The question is, can they rebound while there’s still time?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought Bradley was mostly DH?
Especially after the major knee surgery where his old manager powerbombed to the ground.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
nope.
there’s another thread where it’s clear that he’s spent most of his career in the outfield. Last year he DH’d as he was recovering from surgery. And frankly, the odd gaffe aside, his defense has been fine.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
He is a DH
look at the numbers, he may have the talent to play the OF, but he’s never been healthy enough and his best years where primarily whilst DHing, save for one year in LAD
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
he has only "primarily" DH'd
one year — last year.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah b/c the other years he wasnt even on the field
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
oy.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
well you set me up for it
I feel bad for him in a lot of ways b/c he’s catching a lot crap, but a bad idea is a bad idea
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
2-4 today
with the game-winning RBI. And one of the two outs was a SMOKED line drive off a 94 mph fastball.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
GWRBI is an outdated, shaky at best stat
And by the arcane rules, Blanco had it. The “difference” run would be Theriot, since that was run #2.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I got the order
mixed up. I thought Blanco’s RBI was the first run (which was tied), MB had the second one (which was the difference) and Riot’s was third (which was insurance).
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Not just insurance . . . .State Farm Insurance Run
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont know where to begin on that one
How was a team that won 90 plus games and lead the NL in Runs Scored, Ks and numerous others, over achievers?
Bradley is most definitely a DH, I think he may have had one year in which he played over 100 games in the OF
What they had their hands on was a great team that played miserably and got picked apart by some great groundball pitchers, and they have clearly over reacted and made too many changes and relied too much on projections and assumptions
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Boy, this one boggles the mind
Wouldn’t you say all of baseball relies on projections? Isn’t that what every deal in baseball is predicated upon?
You watched last season. You saw how the Cubs won some of those games. Do you expect the Cubs to win that many games that way again? They did overachieve. I don’t think 97 victories was on anybody’s radar. Bringing back everybody and changing nothing would not have resulted in 97 victories again, in all probability.
After two years of three-and-outs in the postseason, Hendry felt the need to change some things. I would, too. That the changes haven’t worked is not his fault, because the right pieces are in place. Quit believing the crap you hear from the meatheads on sports talk radio (with rare exceptions) and think for yourself.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont listen to the radio in any shape or form
I think a lot of this offseason, whether it was from Jimbo himself or from the collective fan base, was based on projections and assumptions. People assumed Bradleys healthiest/most productive year would carry over to 09, people saw Fontenots numbers in his limited role last year and assumed they could extrapolate them to regular ABs.
And yes, most sports decisions are based on projections, but arent those better utilized when theres a track record behind them? In the case of Miles/Heilman and Bradley (at least in his ability to stay healthy) were ignored to some extent, and Fontenot/Patton and even Soto didnt have enough data to accurately project anything.
I dont think its crap to think a team that won 97 games didnt need extensive changes. Was DeRosa suddenly going to fall off the table, if its true Kerry wouldve taken a one year deal, why not do that? Why bank on a Rule 5 pick in the bullpen?
Changes shouldve been made, but not to this degree
The changes that didnt work are absolutely his fault b/c he’s pulling the strings
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Every pitch could be Wood's last
and DeRosa had a career year and was at an age where a dropoff, particularly from a guy who had not put up exceptional numbers, could be anticipated.
Let me guess, you complained back when DeRo was signed because he wasn’t worth the money, right?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
haha, no I was actually pretty pleased
I remember seeing it on the bottom line on espn and thought it was a good signing b/c of his versatility, and I cant even remember who our second baseman was before that
I dont think any dropoff by DeRosa wouldve been that dramatic over a one year span, I certainly wouldnt have extended him, but Id rather gamble on the guy coming off 2 straight career years than the career part-time.
I actually think they made the right call with Woody, in the longview anyways
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
See, I thought it was a good signing, too
But I also don’t blame Hendry for dumping him, particuarly if they could get some decent arms for the minors. People complain about the farm system being broke. I think Hendry saw this as a way to help the farm system without harming the big club.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, youre probably right on his reasoning
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Woody didn't say anything about taking a one year deal
till AFTER negotiations with the Cubs fell through and he signed with Cleveland.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
He didn't "dismantle it all"
The amount of revisionist history going on here and the contortions of logic some are using is painful to watch.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
he made a lot of changes in key areas
miles, gregg, patton, gathright, freel, koyie hill, bradley….getting rid of DeRosa, Wood, Wuertz, Eyre, Guadin, Edmonds, thats an awful lot of turnover, wouldnt you say?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
The key players
are virtually the same from last season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Nevertheless
Thats a fair amount of turnover for such a successful team; Wood and DeRosa were key players as was Edmonds
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Exactly. They won 97 games because they were a team!
They didn’t have one player that dominated like Pujols or whoever. When you win as a team, you have to becareful messing with it because all of the played made an impact. That was last years Chicago Cubs.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Winning begats chemistry
not vice versa. I’ve seen a lot of harmonious teams that stunk.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think that always has to be true...
Ruth and Gehrig had bad feelings toward each other, but they led the Yanks to many championships. I can see that being true a lot of the time, but not all of the time.
by TheHawkRules on Jun 30, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I voted for the third option in the poll simply because...
…if the Cubs lose the NL Central, a lot willl depend on exactly how they lose it. Should they remain in close contention throughout the rest of the season and get edged by a game or two, I could see Hendry hanging on to his job. He may well be able to sell to ownership (assuming there is any clear ownership in place by then) that he simply had so many players underperform and suffer injuries that the season was an aberration that no one could have seen coming.
But if the Cubs truly crash and burn, finishing a significant number of games back (perhaps more than five), I think Jimbo may – and perhaps should – go. He took a number of huge risks with a 97-win lineup, precious few of which are paying any dividends. And while my feelings about Mark DeRosa are mixed – if the Cardinals end up taking the NL Central, DeRo may end up representing Hendry’s greatest folly and cost Jim his job.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Couldnt this simply be a situation where a new voice is needed?
Whether or not Hendry has done poorly, similar to the Gerald Perry firing
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
It could be.
And I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to a new voice (depending on the candidate, of course). But, again, I think it will depend on how close the Cubs come to making the playoffs.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
"A number of huge risks with a 97-win lineup"
Do you think –
Milton Bradley was more or less risky than Jim Edmonds or Felix Pie as our LH- OF?
Mike Fontenot should not have been given a shot after his 2008 breakout season?
That the Cubs should have sold high on Soto and overpaid to sign Jorge Posada?
What other options were there this off-season? Are there other huge risks you’re talking about?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Bradley was more of a risk for sure, look at his price tag and injury history. I certainly think Edmonds couldve mustered 16 RBIs by now, I dont think Pie was every seriously considered for a full time role in the OF.
Can you have a breakout season with only 243 ABs?
Im not sure where youre getting the Posada angle from
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Yep, every other team in baseball
has been beating down Edmonds’ door to get him to play this season.
This is where the romanticism about the 2008 Cubs begins to show.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
its not romanticism, its a low risk move
Given his age and how we plucked him out of obscurity last year, I think he couldve come rather cheaply on a one year deal, if it worked great, if not we couldve Vizcaino’d him.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Two words:
Gary Gaetti.
’Nuff said.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 29, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
two words
different people
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
If Edmonds has something left...
then why didn’t he sign elsewhere?
What if we ignored MB, resigned edmonds, and it turned out Jim is done? Then we’re SOL on outfielders.
Free Ronny Cedeno
Trading DeRosa was a huge risk
Fontenot has had some good streaks, but he has yet to prove — and I think we’re seeing this now — that he can be an everyday player. Let’s face it; Lou didn’t want Fontenot (whom I like as a player, just not an everyday one) because of his 08 season. Lou wanted him to start because he was left-handed. If Fonty had been right-handed, he would have been trade bait.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Agreed. Look at DeRosa as merely the second baseman, there
was a large supply of players to fill that void.
DeRosa turns out to be missed more for his leadership in the clubhouse and third baseman’s glove. If the reporting is accurate, DeRosa, Wood, and Dempster were three of the steadying influences. I’m sure there were/are others, but with two gone and one working through personal crisis, the void is obvious on the field.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
who replaces him if?
who hires said replacement?
can we please get the ownership question solved?
100 Votes
At 100 votes… 53% of the people believe Hendry should go. Out of the 47% who believe Hendry should stay, 23% feel that he should only get one more shot at Chicago Cub World Series Championship.
The pressure is on Jim. Will you come through for us?
"The pressure is on"
I hate to break it to you, but the position of Cubs GM is not democratically elected.
Are you kidding me!
Obviously Kenney cares about the fans, like BCB, has to say. I’m sure that he will see this and careful consider whether Hendry really is deserving of the GM position.
The future is bleak thanks to Hendry's hyper-spending
The Cubs are buried in bad contracts. The next few years are going to be ugly as Hendry’s successor is faced with building from virtual scratch a good farm system and waits patiently for these bad bloated contracts to unwind themselves.
Hendry really screwed the pooch when it comes to the future. You can’t buy your way into contention and you can’t buy your way out of shortcomings (the farm system) and mistakes otherwise made.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
Correction...
…you can buy your way into short-term contention (and that is what they have done), but it can also bite you in the rear if you don’t have a Yankee type payroll.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Correction again
Even the New York Yankees are reliant on a consistently good farm system. Either to plug and play or to trade. Yankees wouldn’t have participated in 6 World Series since 1996 if it were not for a productive farm system.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
They don't win their WS championships...
…without their homegrown players, that’s for sure.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
...and the same can be said about the big money Boston Red Sox
Examine how they won in 2004 and 2007. Plenty of homegrown talent, plus a Hanley Ramirez that was able to be traded for ace Josh Beckett.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
Exactly...
…didn’t we see something like that at the end of Dusty’s reign as manager? Over the last year or so, Hendry couldn’t spend anymore and the team stunk? He got some cash to blow when Lou came on board, and now the same thing is happening…
by TheHawkRules on Jun 29, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You finish the season...
…and see how things look, and it’s highly likely there needs to be an organizational philosophy change and that would mean the guy who runs the show – the GM.
IMO, I thought he should have gone after the 06 season, but the Trib knew there was a pending sale on the horizon and they knew recruiting a legit GM would have been troublesome. During Hendry’s tenure, it has always been a “patch work” approach and some of the patching have been bad decisions. You simply can’t build an organization with a solid foundation, without a certain level of talent flow from your farm, and Hendry has been involved in exactly that since 1994.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Ding, ding, ding, ding !!!!
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
The grass is always greener...
Jim Hendry has flaws and there are things I’d like to talk to him about overall team philosophy, but it seems to me that we are a whole lot more likely to end up with a worse GM than a better one if we saw him replaced.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I differ a bit...
…and would argue that most Cub fans are quick to think a change in managers would bring greener grass, while ignoring the a constant in the Cub organization since 1994 – Jim Hendry.
As I have said, he has done some positive things in regards to trades and signings, but a very valuable piece of what a successful organization needs (consistant talent from the farm) has eluded him. Here is another problem; even if the Cubs are 8-9 games out at the trade deadline, who do they trade to restock with young talent? Most of their high price guys either have no-trades, have diminished value or are simply untradable. Things aren’t looking pretty for the next 2-3 years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The next 2-3 years
depends on a few things.
If Soto and/or Fontenot can get back to being the hitters they were in ’08, if Ryan Theriot can settle in and be an above-average OBP source, while playing acceptable SS defense, then things are different than if all three of those guys flop this year.
If Dome can find a way to be a consistent ML hitter, Ramirez returns strong, and DLee keeps the crick out of his neck, none of them will be overpaid the next 2-3 years.
If Randy Wells continues to exceed expectations and we get 2 out of Guzman, Ascanio, and Marmol to settle in, that also will be a strong help.
Right now we can see a 2-3 year future in which Fontenot, Soto, and Theriot are overrated mediocrities (or worse), Dome flounders, Ramirez is injured, and Lee declines. But I doubt all of that will happen.
As for trade chips – in the next 1 1/2 years, if the Cubs are clearly out of it, we should be able to trade Harden, Lilly, Lee, and Bradley.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Give me that many ifs
and I can have the Nationals winning the WS this year.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Another thing to consider...
If you hire a new GM right after this season, you’re completely screwing the new guy. All the back-loaded contracts and the ownership mess mean the new GM would have nothing to work with. If you’re gonna hire a new GM, give him a clean slate and hire him after the ownership thing gets worked out.
I agree a new GM...
…would be acquiring a bit of a mess, but you would have to give him time to sort through some of the limitations.
I agree Hendry is not going anywhere while the ownership situation has not been finalized.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
nobody becomes
a GM in a vacuum. Any GM knows that he’s coming on board with deals already in place.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 29, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah but this situation is particularly screwed up.
A ton of big backloaded contracts and transitional ownership. No qualified GM would want to jump in right now. Waiting a year or two to consider replacing Hendry would be fairer to both Jim and the new GM, since Hendry’s moves will be evaluated more accurately and the big contracts will be much more movable (and the ownership will be hopefully stabilized).
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 30, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you in principle
But giving Hendry two or three years to screw up the team even more is a risk I’m not willing to take. Unless the new ownership puts tight controls on what he’s doing, there’s no reason to believe he won’t continue to hand out backloaded contracts like candy, trade or cut loose players for no discernible reason other than whimsy, and give in to the worst instincts of his manager.
Which means, in two or three years, we have yet another reason to hold off on saddling someone else with a mess. Only difference is, it might be a worse mess.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
I don't see why you think Hendry would screw it up.
He has no payroll room to sign anymore big contracts and he’s always been good at making trades.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 30, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Disagree...
…you make the change as soon as you can. The longer you let the existing orginazational philosophy run the show, the deeper the hole can become.
Also, it’s not just the contracts that are the concern, the most important impact you want a new GM to have is fixing our player development issues, and that can’t start fast enouph.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
No good GM in their right mind would want to step in right now.
It’s just not a good situation to be in. Regardless of whether or not it’s fair, the GM would be judged on initial results, and would be handicapped by the current ownership mess/huge contracts. Would you rather hire some sap desperate for a GM job (who would most likely be a downgrade from Hendry) now or wait a couple years and get a guy of Epstein/Beane caliber. Firing a guy for the sake of it makes little sense. If you’re gonna fire Hendry, you better bring in a guy capable of doing better. Since you seem to be so eager to hand out the pink slip, why don’t you name the guy you would pick as Hendry’s replacement?
I won't name names...
…but you get someone with a proven track record of building a strong farm system and is talented at roster assembly. If you can do that, the future prospects will be brighter.
I again disagree a talented GM would not step in after 09. If ownership and the candidate are on the same page as to what needs to be improved etc.., you simply give the guy a longer contract and the time to clean up some of the mess (too many long term big money deals, no trades, etc.).
I’d bet, there are several candidates out there that would welcome the opportunty.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
If the Cubs don't make the playoffs and the team is sold then...
…it’s the right time and circumstance for change. Overall, Hendry has benefited the Cubs. He has been unsuccessful at the player development but he has shined in acquiring players (every team has some bad/poor contracts).
Overall, I’d rather see an Epstein here or a top assistant from that organization. They seem intelligent and able to win under extreme pressure and curses.
I agree...
…winning with curses is the key.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

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