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All Is Not Wells: Bullpen Implosion Ruins Randy's Gem, Cubs Lose 6-5 In 12

Anyone who has been a Cubs fan as long as I have has seen some losses we'd rather forget. Last night's ugly 6-5 Cubs defeat at the hands of the Braves zoomed right up to the top of the list of horrible games that will stick in our minds for a long time. We can only hope that the players shake it off and come back and win tonight.

The bullpen meltdown ruined Randy Wells' fifth major league start -- at first, it appeared that Wells, like Kerry Wood 11 years ago in his fifth ML start, might put his name in the record books. He took a no-hitter into the seventh inning before Chipper Jones slapped a no-doubt-about it single to left with two out; Garret Anderson ruined Wells' bid for a shutout with a home run leading off the 8th, but those were the only two hits Wells allowed. When Derrek Lee made his first error of the season dropping a subsequent throw from Ryan Theriot, Wells was lifted for Carlos Marmol. Marmol's been off and on this year, and last night was definitely "off". Marmol's control was poor -- only 11 strikes in 23 pitches, and Wells was charged with a second run, unearned, when Marmol issued a bases-loaded walk, which made the score 5-2. A sac fly made it 5-3, still a very winnable game. But then Kevin Gregg came in and allowed Jeff Francoeur -- who Braves fans have nearly given up on -- to hit a game-tying, two-run homer. The Cubs had their chances in extra innings, especially in the 10th when Kosuke Fukudome doubled with two out, but the bullpen kept putting too many on base and finally, Chipper Jones sent Braves fans home happy with a game-winning single in the 12th.

Before some final analysis of this giveaway, since I am by nature a positive person, let's look at some of the good things about this game. Wells threw 83 pitches and had 58 strikes. Now think about that for a minute. In recent years some Cubs pitchers haven't gotten out of the fifth inning without throwing that many pitches. He walked no one and before Jones' single, the only baserunner had been Yunel Escobar, who was hit by a Wells pitch and then erased on a double play. I was especially pleased to see Derrek Lee put up two extra-base hits, a smash double down the line driving in one run, and his sixth homer of the season in the top of the eighth. Alfonso Soriano, who almost always gets started off by opposing pitchers with a fastball, took a 68-MPH curveball from Kenshin Kawakami for strike one, but fought Kawakami off and wound up with a leadoff home run, the 54th of his career, which put him past Craig Biggio into second place behind the all-time leader, Rickey Henderson, who hit 81 of them. It was also Soriano's first HR in 12 games; maybe this is the start of one of his hot streaks.

OK, done with the good stuff -- and beyond losing the game, the Cubs may have again lost Milton Bradley to injury. He has a right calf strain after trying to beat out an infield hit and is officially "day-to-day", though that was his status after the April injury in Milwaukee, and he wound up out for more than two weeks. To which I'm going to say tonight: I TOLD YOU SO. Forget about Bradley's outbursts -- the thing I was most worried about in this signing was his constant time out of the lineup. Who knows how bad this injury is going to be, and fortunately Reed Johnson is hot right now and so he'll play CF while Kosuke Fukudome (who was 1-for-3 against his former Chunichi Dragons teammate Kawakami) shifts over to RF. At this rate, Bradley won't make the incentives this season that would guarantee the contract for its third year, so the Cubs' future financial exposure will be trimmed.

Some of you thought the Cubs should have signed Raul Ibanez. No one could have predicted how well he'd do so far this year, but that'd be better than the half-time play of Bradley. And even Adam Dunn would have been better -- bad as he might have been in right field, at least he has been on the field for all of Washington's games this year and has played 152 or more games five straight years and six of the last seven. At this rate we'll be lucky if Bradley plays 152 games combined between this year and next. (Not to mention that Dunn is 3rd in the NL in HR, 4th in RBI, 3rd in walks, and 9th in SLG and OPS.) Dunn would have made Joey Gathright useful, as Gathright could have played defensive replacement virtually every day for the last couple of innings.

There's enough blame to go around for last night. Some may blame Lou, but he's only using the players Jim Hendry got him. Come to think of it, that might be Lou's fault, since a lot of the changes were apparently made at his behest. The bullpen, in particular, was "fixed" badly. It's not too late to fix some of the fixes, either. Like the players, we as fans need to shake it off; there's another game tonight -- and the Cubs remain only four games out of first place (and if you're keeping track this early, four games out of the wild card, too).

Final note: I received multiple email complaints about behavior in the game threads last night. In the heat of discussing a tough game like last night's, I understand people can get frustrated and upset. Profanity and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

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Randy Wells

He was fantastic last night. Time after time I watch the Cubbies go up against the kind of pitcher that Wells was last night and wonder, why don’t we have one of those? Now we do. Really great. If Fonty was a little taller he would have gotten out of the 7th with the no-hitter. Wonder what Wonder Hampster’s vertical leap measure is? 8 inches?

Lou has to realize that Marmol has to be kept on a very very short leash. It was immediately apparent that he didn’t have it last night and should have been pulled right away. Another game today. Go Cubbies!

I want my Macias!

by wombat on Jun 3, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Meh.

I’ll just write this one off to one of those 60 games that a team loses no matter what during a season.

Honestly, I think it’s safe to say that the Cubs’ bullpen is NOT going to blow a lot of 5 run leads this year, no matter what people think about them.

Bad luck, moving on.

"From childhood's hour I have not been as others were - I have not seen as others saw." - Alone, Edgar Allan Poe

by Edgewood on Jun 3, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I think this was one of the 60 games we win

Except that we lost. Also the bullpen is primed to blow many five run leads the way they’ve been pitching.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

'Many five-run leads'

Seriously? You really believe that?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I guess

your baseball knowledge is less than zero.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are correct sir

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is he not entitled to an opinion

The way that our bullpen is currently pitching, they will give up a lot of five run leads. Marmol is walking almost a batter an inning (probably more now after last night), Heilmann can’t get anyone out, Gregg hasn’t exactly been effective, and Lou doesn’t really trust anyone else. The only one in our bullpen that has consistently pitched well is Guzman. Having only one effective pitcher in your bullpen will result in a lot of blown leads.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you see a lot of bullpens

blowing five-run leads all the time in baseball, too. Not.

And no, not everybody is entitled to an opinion. Think about it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since not everyone

is entitled to one, you just lost yours.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what I mean

“I think all Chinese people are stupid.”

If someone says “That’s my opinion,” does that make it OK?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That has to be some kind of record...

from first comment to personal attack…

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 3, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok that is fair...

But the timing of such events could be a killer.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, but..

“bad luck, moving on” seems like quite an understatement. I am a 26 year old lifelong Cards fan from Belleville, IL. I was pumped up to see Randy Wells getting the call earlier this season, as I was one year younger than him in our school days. It is very cool to see him doing so well – even if it is with the Cubbies. His season numbers (minus the wins) are pretty similar to some guy named Chris Carpenter, who I heard is pretty good. My point/question:
Since I only watch Cubs games when Randy is starting, I only have that sample to go from, but is the bullpen really that bad? It looks like a disaster from the handful of games that I have seen.

"I've played a couple of hundred games of tic-tac-toe with my little daughter and she hasn't beaten me yet. I've always had to win. I've got to win." - Bob Gibson

by MUGATU on Jun 3, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts on Ibanez...

No one would have predicted his hot start – but he always seems to get 100 rbi’s a season. So to say you could not predict his start fine (the HRs are a little off), but he is always around a 100 rbi’s.

I personally think the Cubs gave up on Fukudome too early.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 8:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh and Dunn...

If he only played at Wrigley (81 games) i am sure he would hit 40 HRs a season. That was reason enough to sign him.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been trying

not to think about these 2 guys…I even traded away Dunn on my fantasy team so I dont have to see all his HR and high OPS everyday.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn would have been a disaster in right

As for Ibanez, Lou managed him before. The fact that the Cubs showed no interest in him is probably a sign that Lou didn’t want him again (rightly or wrongly).

by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea -

i am glad you put (rightly or wrongly) cuz this might open a can of worms.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah ...

I’m not saying I agree with Lou. I’m just saying why I think it didn’t happen.

by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why

does Lou not order Jones walked w/ 1st base open? Apparently, he couldn’t hear me screaming through the tv screen.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Jun 3, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

1st base open...

1 out, setup the DP… I don’t get it.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely inexcusable.

That’s baseball 101 right there — don’t let the other team’s best hitter beat you. ESPECIALLY with first base open and when walking him will setup the inning ending double play.

There is zero logic in pitching to him.

by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

In fact, they probably should also have walked McCann after that to set up a force at every base.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not McCann

not when your bullpen is near the top @ walking batters. But c’mon Chipper is on the All Contact all the Time Team…. why?!

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah not McCann

Then you put the winning run 90 feet away with a possible WP/PB. But not walking Chipper was a baseball crime.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree.

1st and 2nd with one out, you don’t IBB the next guy to put the winning run at 3rd with only one out. Had there have been two outs in that situation, I would agree. But not with one.

McCann is a catcher. He’s slow. You should expect your pitcher to be able to induce a DP on him. Terrible managing.

by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

I agree with this.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

You don’t let the other team’s best hitter beat you with first base open. I told my son they should be walking Chipper there because he will beat you most of the time.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I usually trust Lou in crunchtime decisions like this...

…but not walking Chipper last night was mind-boggling. I was baffled. Was he asked this in the post-game?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

unintentional Walk

Since the runner stole second on a 3-1 strike, I can see pitching to Jones – but never throw him a strike. And never, never , never, never a low pitch he can drive. Throw it up in his eyes. If he swings, he pops it up. If not, then it’s a walk.

by CubbieFaninOhio on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or at least bring in Waddell

to pitch to him. Bob said over and over that Jones has a bum right toe and cannot bat right handed, plus, if Jones does get on McCann is on deck. Lou should have brought Waddell in in that situation I think.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For his MLB debut?

I don’t know if that would’ve been the best idea.

by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His debut

was the other day and he pitched pretty well. Even struck out two of the four batters he faced.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You and Santo

He was pissed all game, but moreso when he saw Heilman about to pitch to Chipper.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was one of the most frustrating games I've seen

in a very long time. What on earth does it take to get Randy Wells a win?! He’s been OUTSTANDING and nothing to show for it.

And as much as what I’m about to say pains me, Geo needs a break. He deserves some blame as well. Kevin Gregg had to get 4 outs that inning because of the PB, that 2 run homer should never have happened. He looks shoddy throwing people out as well. They need to figure something out there, this is just ridiculous. :(

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Jun 3, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

One other thing

Guzman was pretty good last night all things considered. What would happen if we ever got our best out of the pen consistently…

Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008

by slcathena on Jun 3, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kevin Gregg

the Hr shouldnt have happned but it was a terrible pitch. Francouer cant hit any other pitch and Gregg decides to leave a fastball down the middle, that cant happen.

by Aramis Ramirez on Jun 3, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geo made a LOT of good plays last night

But he also made a lot of sloppy plays, and made easy plays look hard. Hill should get a shot. Something is not right with Geo.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last night was

DIS-GUST-ING. Marmol is becoming a liability and Lou doesn’t pull the plug on him quick enough. After Wells’ great start the clun should be able to hold on to a 4 run lead.

by sdurst on Jun 3, 2009 8:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Marmol

has all the symptoms of “Rich Hill” disease. Hope he finds a cure before the season’s over.

by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh stop it.

That’s way too extreme. Remember how he entered the ASB last year? Then he had a great outing during the ASG and was lights out. He’ll be fine, let’s not overreact.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 3, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

from July 10-19

he pitched in two games (including the ASG performance)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=marmoca01&t=p&year=2008

give me another 10 day span in which Marmol is used just twice

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good idea.

But to compare him to Rich Hill is crazy pills talk. He’s gone through this before and he’s recover. Not to mention, he’s never been pooped on while pitching ( at least that we know of).

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 3, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i've been consistent for over a year now

that Marmol’s declining command is PHYSICAL FATIGUE nothing mental

I made a long post about it last year assessing the over-use and suggesting this could have long-term effects

I followed it up this year with an extended post about how we may be realizing those losses now in terms of Marmol’s effectiveness due to the overuse last year and the consistent mismanagement of him this year

so no… i’m not the guy to agree it has anything to do with mental issues

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why couldn't Wells pitch the entire game?

I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!

by Chanman25 on Jun 3, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good question.

At 83 pitches, he could have at least finished the 8th.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially in a 5-0/5-1 game.

n/t

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was ok with him being lifted at that point

Marmol should have been able to do the job.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too

Wells was losing hsi ability to locate his pitches. They were starting to get into good hitting spots. Wells is a young pitcher and I think it was for the best at that point to get him out of the game with a resounding success under his belt.

by jerry morales rules on Jun 3, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marmol

had been used in 4 of the last 5 days either in the game or warming up

had he not been used in those prior games (two of them games decided by 5 runs or more), perhaps he would’ve been more effective

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the numbers suggest as much

but you could care less about numbers….

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

proof

Marmol Career BB’s/9 as a reliever, based on usage patterns

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=marmoca01&year=Career&t=p

0 Days, GR = 6.08 BB/9 (50 1/3 innings)
1 Days, GR = 4.95 BB/9 (72 2/3 innings)
2 Days, GR = 4.61 BB/9 (27 2/3 innings)
3 Days, GR = 3.26 BB/9 (19 1/3 innings)

Can we see the trend?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

didn't your chart

previously list four, five and six days of rest?

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

responded in the other thread on this

but the 4-5-6+ all combined for 20 1/3 innings and the BB/9 is 3.72

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wells..

should have been given a much longer leash. His short time in the big leagues he has demonstrated a good ability to work out of trouble. In this case, the trouble wasn’t even that serious.

Maybe Piniella was saving Wells for game 4 of the division series..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Jun 3, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was all set to post a big "CONGRATULATIONS" to former Lansing Lugnut Wells on his first major league win.

He’s been great this season. Unfortunately, he seems to have picked up the “hard luck” mantle this season. He deserved better last night and this season. Hang in there Randy.

As for the rest of the game, I agree with your initial assessment Al. This one goes up to if not at the top of the “BAD CUBS GAMES” ladder. This one stunk.

I guess the lesson here is when you strive to build a balanced team, you go 81-81.

Sigh…

Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!

by Zeke on Jun 3, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

At least we have a keeper in Wells

Though I’m interested to see what happens the second time he starts against a team. Still I was awful excited watching him mow down hitters and keep his pitch count down.

The problem has become Geovany Soto and his lack of power/defense. That was a very blockable pitch from Gregg last night, and Soto couldn’t get his body in front of it. If he isn’t going to hit for plus power then Koyie Hill should start and Soto should be sent to AAA. Tell him to go down there, lose 10 pounds, and hit homers. The PCL should allow him to get his power stroke back that way the good Geovany Soto is back and we don’t have to watch this new Soto become more and more useless.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hill made a great stop

after just coming into the game on a pitch from Heilman with a man on 3rd.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even better

Personally I would have strapped him into a treadmill a month ago and made him run until he was back in shape.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean don't the Cubs

have trainers and staff to help the players who need to be in better shape?

by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His situation reminds me of Andruw Jones a bit

I don’t understand how a professional athlete can get out of shape. Odds are he thought he could get away with gaining a little weight before spring training, then discovered that his body can’t shed the weight as easily.

Or he is still eating too much against the wishes of the training staff.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shaq reports to every training camp overweight...

… and every year i wonder how he gets away with it.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because there isn't a human being alive

with the balls to take on Shaq. Also Shaq has risen to media-bulletproof status, which means he can get away with anything.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

Shaq should open a school for professional athletes and teach “media-bulletproof status 101” and “reporting to camp overweight 201.”

Seriously, it’d be an interesting case study: how did Shaq achieve that status?

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Him and Barkley can be co-founders

I don’t know how Barkley got there, but Shaq did it by being a funny guy who all the media people liked, I’m sure there are some other factors as well.

I think about the Kobe rap from last year and wonder how many people would have gotten killed in the media for that.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you would have attended

Winning Championships 101 you may have known

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could never make it to 8 o'clock classes.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

AM or PM?

haha party animal

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've never understood this

With any other sport, nearly every athlete is in tremendous shape. Only in baseball do you have players who end up becoming to far overweight to play their positions effectively. Even the overweight players in football are their size because of the position they play. If a running back put on 20, or 30 pounds, he’d be benched or strapped to a treadmill until he got the weight off. I know it’s a long season, but that’s no excuse to let yourself go.

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There have been plenty of football and basketball players who have ate their way out of a job.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 3, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marmol vs. Wells

Excellent point made by Brenley last night, i.e., Marmol’s the type of pitcher that has nasty stuff and makes the HS team, gets a signing bonus, etc., whereas Wells is the guy that gets ignored. Even though Wells throws strikes. I have a son who’s a pitcher, HS age, who is like Wells.

Very frustrating game, another one to go down in infamy.

by thermal54 on Jun 3, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Same old

.500. That’s what this team is and that is what this team will continue to be without changes to the regular lineup in some way, shape or form. Theriot absolutely has to be moved off of SS. The internal options are obviously very limited but you can’t continue to trot him out there and expect him to even play adequate defense at SS. Quite frankly, he’s terrible at SS and anyone that believes otherwise hasn’t been paying attention to the balls clanging off his glove with regularity, the double-clutch throws almost daily and his woeful range to either side. I like Theriot…as a 2B. His adventures at SS have to end for this team, not the one from 2008, to somehow turn into a contender.

As for Soto, he needs a trip to Des Moines I’m afraid. Perhaps that is the wake-up call he needs. Otherwise, they’ve tried everything else and not only isn’t he hitting, but his performance behind the plate has been just plain bad.

Otherwise, this team has to stop with the “it’s a long season, we’ll be fine” routine and stop it NOW. Play baseball and start taking these losses more seriously. The “we could be worse” mantra never fits anyone well.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jun 3, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree with Theriot

slow and no arm.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Jun 3, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, he'd be fine @ 2B

but what do you do?

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soto ...

should at least ride the pine for a while. Why won’t Lou give Hill more starts?

by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was Brenly who compared Lou and Robert Cox

He mentioned that both want to win, but when Lou is frustrated it shows and rubs off on the team, whereas Cox was out there cheering on his team, helping them out with Fly Balls, etc.

Is Lou getting too old for this game? (Not physical age, but just mental age)

by GoCubbies34 on Jun 3, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I've wondered about

Lou’s mental health this year. To me he’s not the same manager as we saw last year.

by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He seems a bit more warn down

but I don’t think he is different. Lou is a terrible in game manager in terms of bullpen and bench, this year he has less to
work with so this get’s exposed more.

"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 3, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

RIGHT SUE,,,,

At times it looks like he is in another world..That has been my observation also,,,,

by cubs north on Jun 3, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wells is sharp

Maybe the Cubs should draft catchers in every round and make them pitchers.
 This is what Lou wanted, no Wuertz, no Eyre and get every lefthanded bat ( except the ones that don’t get hurt, Abreu, Dunn, and Ibanez) that is standing.
 I can only hope Bradley goes on the DL, becasue of the contract situation. Hated the signing from day 1.
 And Soto needs a trip to Iowa.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Jun 3, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not a trip to Iowa

since you need a back up catcher anyway. I’d rather we try this tough love thing by having him back up Hill a couple more times a week.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why can't the AAA catcher sit here for two weeks

Soto sitting on the bench does nobody any good. He needs to remember how to hit for power, 5 extra base hits in two months for Soto is pathetic.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the trip to Iowa is to get some hitting in fine

but just to try to wake him up psychologically, a benching here can do that too. I guess I’d rather have Soto and his .200 avg pinch hit than whoever the AAA catcher is.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he is woken up

He knows he sucks, you could see it last night after Lou pulled him. He needs some easy pitching to feast on for two weeks, let him remember that he can hit for power so that we can have our ROY back.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree with you

Cubs should do it now, if they’re gonna do it…we’re already in tread water mode.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

Hill can do the same thing Soto is doing. We need Soto to be Soto.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

don’t know who backs up Hill, but don’t really care at this point.

by Spydey on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wellington Castillo?

I hear Paul Bako is looking for a job.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Starting today

we need to assume that if we’re going to right this ship and win this division, we cant count on Bradley. Any contribution from him will be gladly expected, but me personally, I dont expect much from him anymore.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

** expected = accepted

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which makes Hendry saying

that Bradley would play 130 games so laughable. There has been no history for Bradley making it through a whole season healthy.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

even more laugable were the number of fans who expected 130 games

.300+ average, and 25-30 home runs from a guy who’s rarely if ever put up those numbers

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A blessing in disguise

Reed Johnson, hotter than a pistol and with healthy limbs, takes Bradleys spot.
Personally I would rather have Johnson out there even if Bradley is healthy.

by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umpiring

I was again disturbed at the problems the plate umpire was having:
*Missed the call when the ball hit Escobar’s bat. Jesus, you’re standing right there. WTF??
*Was apparently having difficulty with the heat. It’s hot. In Atlanta. In June. Who knew?

Not the reason the Cubs choked, but still, this is a professional sport.

by thermal54 on Jun 3, 2009 8:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Escobar

I think Len and Bob mentioned they didnt see any of the Cubs complain, ask for another umps opinion…. not like it would have changed anything, but it happens.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody mentioned

Escobar’s fake HBP. The ball hits the bat and he goes on and on like it hit him in the head. I sure wouldn’t liked to see a perfect game ruined by an acting job. BUt I guess the bullpen implosion kept us from talking about that.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Escobar is a good player

But he is a piece of crap. Every issue teams have with the Braves seems to directly involve Escobar. He gets hit by a pitch and makes way too big a deal about it.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Circles provided great comic relief to all of us last night after a tough loss

We need clowns like him to come over and entertain us after tough games

by cubsnlinux on Jun 3, 2009 8:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope not

He started right off by calling us losers and idiots (he called me an “idiot” at one point). When that wasn’t enough, he called someone (I don’t remember who and the comment has been deleted) a sick f###.

It was quite the intro on this site.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who cares if an anonymous arseclown calls you an idiot.

You need to realize what a joke that guy was, and not take it personally

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not taking it like that.

I hadn’t seen anything like that before, that’s why I posted it. Not that it wasn’t funny in afterthought … I laughed about it later.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, guess what.

That kind of stuff isn’t allowed on this site. Period.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nor should it be, but

My tact was to not let it get to me, because that’s what the guy wanted.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you

threw him off his game a little.

by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

really?

I seem to remember a poster telling people to “STFU” the other day (among other insults to me and others this year). Have you done anything about that, Al?

by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you email me, I'll do something about it.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK ...

I will, if it happens again. I didn’t know that was the preferred process.

by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sure it is,

if the “right” people are doing it

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

define "right"

I’d like to hear your theory on this …

by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've watched Not Bruce Froemming get away with personal attacks left and right

on anyone who doesn’t remotely agree with him, and nothing is done to him. Heine is cussing people out and nothing happens.

There are a group of posters here who appear to be treated differently.

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't cussing people out

A couple of F bombs are different than profanity riddled personal attacks

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you told me to STFU

which, i agree, is different than a profanity-laced personal attack. Either way, it is my opinion that every Cubs fan deals with frustration and losses in their own way. Some are very optimistic despite the fact this franchise has struggled for so long, and I envy them for that outlook. I feel that when a franchise spends hundreds of millions of dollars they deserve to be criticized.

I do wish that this whole sunshine pumpers vs. ledge-jumpers classification would end. It is the source of 90% of the negative, personal attacks on the board. The notion that cynics are less of fans is ludicrous, those who don’t like the negativity should just man up and ignore it.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody should be allowed to be a fan their own way

Some people like to focus on the positive things, while some like to overreact to the bad things. Both are fine, heck its better that there are different perspectives around here.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Very well said.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Agree with and apologize

I was irritated and just didn’t appreciate the prediction of failure. But you are entitled to that.

We’ve gotten along just fine on here and again I’m sorry. Didn’t mean to start anything.

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no worries

all on the same team here

by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you want to

vent your negative thoughts why don’t you start a thread for those who want to vent? If others come in the game thread spouting their venom we can send them to your thread. When the game is over you can always delete your thread.

We all know when the team is not playing well. We don’t need 20+ posts telling us what we alrady know. I really can’t stand all the negative stuff being spewed in the game threads. I’m not a negative person by nature and I don’t feel I should have to read all of that since I know the team is not playing well. Some say to skip over those but that’s impossible to do.

by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and

you’ll ignore us when we have our “rose colored glasses on”?

I won’t bet on that. Not one penny.

I just posted about being a fan, and how I understand that other people are fans in different ways. The problem is, here we are in our little “rose-colored” world, and along comes someone screaming “CUBS SUCK! CUBS SUCK!” and we’re expected to ignore it?

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

eh, i have to really disagree with you here

Yes, there are some fans who when a player strikes out will post how that player “sucks,” but in my case and most of the others I think the criticisms are more specific, valid and educated frankly – based on some forethought and baseball knowledge.

I think your characterization of the ledge jumpers are painted with a very broad brush. This is a forum, I doubt it would be very entertaining if every poster were singing the same tune. I’m pretty sure that everyone on this board at some point last season ripped Fukudome a new one for his terrible finish, should we spend our time culling through those posts to see if all the Dome bashers are now singing his praises? I bet the results would be interesting but its hardly productive.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, there are some fans who when a player strikes out will post how that player "sucks," but in my case and most of the others I think the criticisms are more specific, valid and educated frankly – based on some forethought and baseball knowledge.

You must be reading VERY different game threads. Including your own comments. Remember the 2-1 victory over the Dogers? In the second inning, you said “game over”.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You speak rather highly of yourself.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

I think some may have wondered why I kept answering him, but I was mocking him by not sinking to his level.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop responding to the trolls

I know you think it’s funny or that it works or whatever, but it doesn’t. The only thing that will make the trolls leave is when they can’t have fun anymore. Every response is fun to them. Nothing it more boring to a troll than when nobody responds.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Also, very well said.

Given the amount of time some of us spend here, we know who’s who and if they are “worthy of a response.” There’s no point in feeling personally attacked by someone if you’re not provoking them.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he was having fun replying to me

He was having fun when people got pissed

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To expound on this

You can choose to let it bother you, or you can not let it get to you. I chose not to last night, and I’m pretty sure he didn’t like that. The next time that happens, I’ll do the same.

I’ve learned that not letting people who are out to provoke get to me works to diffuse it in real life, too.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, don't be surprised when the trolling continues

Plenty of other people were bothered by it. There’s is absolutely no reason to feed them.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plenty of other people responded the way he wanted

That’s what will make it continue. Why don’t you chastise them?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not chastising you

You’re an American. Do what you want.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What would you say you were doing, then?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ffs

Providing insight on how to deal with trolls in a manner that works time and time again.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

except it doesn't.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because nobody here actually does it

The trolls get more responses than anybody else.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've seen it happen in other places. It doesn't work.

In order to beat a bully, you have to beat the bully.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"ffs" yeah, that's not chastising

My point, good dr, is that your angst would be better off directed at those who’d responded in kind.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I give up

If you think I was chastising you, then I’m sorry you’re so easily offended.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where did I say I was offended?

You’re still missing the point.

I didn’t resort to personal attacks, profanity-laced tirades or strawman arugments against circles yesterday. Some did do one or more of those. If you read the thread last night, his responses to me pretty much dried up. He got no enjoyment out of baiting me, because I didn’t take the bait.

The ones that did take the bait did give him some of what he wanted — that’s where you should be focusing your energy, instead of telling me not to diffuse his garbage.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, fair enough

I only responded to your post because you were the one who brought it up. It was meant to be a general post for everyone, which is why I was not chastising you.

In any case, it would be nice if Al would designate someone who has Banhammer privileges for game threads so we wouldn’t have to deal with it at all.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

email Al

with your recommendations. Seriously.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alright, got it

I probably got a bit defensive because it seemed directed at me. At any rate, no problem.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too easy to be negative about last night, so I won't even bother.

Wells looked GREAT. Here’s hoping he’s the real deal and another true ‘great starter’ for the Cubs.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on Jun 3, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes...

But he could be the next Frank Castillo.

by tripdenten on Jun 3, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Castillo's wife was hot . . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So I decided to read through the 3rd overflow thread while having my coffee

I already knew the Cubs lost. In fact, in the ninth inning, with one on, I somehow felt Gregg was going to give up a home run and the Cubs would eventually lose. They did. Yeah, it was frustrating to watch, and yeah, it made me angry, but I’m happy I stayed out of the thread last night. This isn’t a knock against Al because I love this website. Google Chrome knows I love it, and Speed Dial knows I love it too, but I almost feel as if I can’t even read the threads because of a handful of people that pollute it. The occasional troll doesn’t bother me, but there’s a group of people that continue to troll, flame, and fight with a lot of the regulars. Some of these people that are so incredibly disruptive have also done things outside of here that I would consider unethical. It’s unfortunate that you can’t ignore these people either because they’re spewing their negativity in either fresh posts, or in replies to other people’s posts. No amount of reasoning works either.

What I want to finish with is, many of you know who I’m alluding to. Those of you I am alluding to know who you are. All I ask is to think about what you’re saying. I know that’s a lot to ask because those of you I am referring to feel as if you can say anything on the internet and not take into account how someone else may feel. Like Al and others have said before, be respectful. Would you behave this way with a group of us if we were chilling at Murphy’s before a game, or inside the park during a game? Would you be such a negative presence that you would make everyone else around you resent you? I would imagine the answer to that is no. So please, take this into consideration. We don’t all have to be hugs and kisses with each other, but have some tact and be mindful of others.

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:39 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

For a positive spin on things...

where do I get my Randy Wells jersey? :)

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

here

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

While awesome

I don’t think the future missus would appreciate me dropping $180 on a jersey right now.

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a Randy Wells one anyway

I just got me a Soto and am now wondering if I took the tags off too soon.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buying a jersey is such a process for me

Your comment about taking the tags off reminds me of that. I feel that any player jersey I buy, I’m going to curse that player somehow and they’re going to then perform awful and be traded.

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, from now on

going strictly retired players route… unless the Cubs somehow have a super stud player at some point in my lifetime, like a Pujols.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

I apparently hexed Prior after I shelled out $$$ for his jersey 5 years ago.

by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You paid someone $ for a jersy?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm really struggling

with what jersey to get next.

Rami
Sori
Lilly

are, I think, my top choices, but…

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

can't go wrong with Rami

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's what I'm thinking

still torn, tho.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

of those choices

definitely Rami. Even after he’s gone, I have a feeling you won’t feel bad wearing the jersey. Like a Kerry Wood jersey, still see people wearing them all the time.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a Wood

blue jersey.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats understandable

Rami > Ted > Sori would be my order

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mine too

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would lean

towards Rami as well, unless the Cubs resigned Lilly, then I would get his.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing Al

you are so positive after all of the Cubs daggers through your heart.

It is very admirable on the one hand, yet perplexing (to me) on the other.

And tonight the team faces Derek Lowe. When was the last time they beat him?

by The E-Man on Jun 3, 2009 8:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was there last night.

Frustrating game thats for sure. Crowd was probably 50/50 cubs/braves fans.

However I was surrounded by braves fans and was sitting next to a smart braves fan which I always enjoy anywhere.

Cubs played great baseball for 7 1/2 innings. Timely hitting, a couple bombs, great double play turned by Blanco early in the game to keep Wells on pace to face the minimum.

Then it blew up.

Even though Wells had only thrown 83 pitches I agreed with the removal. Had just lost the shutout then a wierd play where Lee just drops a throw. Bring in a fresh attitude before anything crazy happens. But why Marmol in this situation, four run lead, one guy on. This seems like Guzman to me. However, Marmol needs to due better obviously, but doesn’t this seem to happen to a lot of late inning guys when they come in to games that are not exactly close.

Top nine the cubs responded with nothing and went 1,2,3 and that hurts but the lead is still there.

My only thought on Gregg’s ninth is it happens. He struck out Anderson on a good breaking pitch that bounced close to the plate from my angle. It looked like Soto might have been a little slow but it also appeared to bounce a little oddly. Still have to get frenchy out who I mentioned to the guy next to me he could delay his demotion to AAA with a big swing, which he ultimately got (damn).

Hielman is what he is. I was glad he gave us at least one more chance to score runs.

Few other thoughts. Why pinch hit for Soto if your going to bunt. Let Soto at least try, I know he hasn’t done it a lot if at all, but why lose a player in an extra inning game to give up an out. Killed me. Also, you must walk Chipper in that situation (you did it earlier). Face McCann with the double play in tact.

Terrible ending to the game but what a promising start to Randy Wells career as a Cub. I was excited about that leaving the game.

Sorry for the Length, but a couple of quick things from the stands last night.

A family of four braves fans sitting a few rows behind me started a, hey you know he is throwing a no-hitter, really a no hitter, (increasing volume) no seriously a no hitter… right before Chipper got his hit. I am not superstitious so I found this quite funny.

But not as funny as the drunk braves fan with the annoying voiced gf cubs fan who called everybody in his phone to tell them he was at a game that went to overtime. Yes he used overtime numerous times, never extra innings. Spectacular.

And last but not least the guy who answered the mid inning trivia question of who did Jeff Francouer hit his first ML HR against by selecting the Red Sox from the three options of Cubs, Astros, and Red Sox. Brilliant (the smart braves fan next to me said as soon as he read the question fourth ML at-bat vs. the Cubs, which I never confirmed, but believed)

I noticed a bunch of these things have been discussed since I started typing but oh well and I completely agree with you Craig (I did the same thing this morning).

Thanks for reading (if you lived threw it).

Its a funny story actually.

by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 8:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Overtime?

That guy should hand in his man-card.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Used it at least 10 times. Gave me a good chuckle in a frustrating moment.

Its a funny story actually.

by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of pinch hitting for Soto with Scales

That was a great bunt, wasn’t it? Ugh! No wonder our minor league system is a joke, a guy who’s been there for years can’t even execute a simple sacrifice!!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The sacrifice bunt itself is just stupid IMO

you have a better chance to score with a runner on first and no out than you do with a runner on second and one out.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here is an old chart

Runs scored per situation

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

Just send Fox up there and let him rip away!!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Sac bunt in that spot = stupid

Especially with Blanco and Hill coming up next. Can we really expect a bh out either one of them IMO…..you only bunt there if you have some good hitters coming up.

Personally, I think this is a pretty bad team right now………..

by plenz on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention

the move burned TWO players

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats what killed me the most.

But I also agree we shouldn’t have even been bunting in that situation.

Its a funny story actually.

by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was the most painful regular season loss I can remember in recent memory.

First, Randy Wells deserves a victory, and we’ve been denying it to him for weeks. Second, we needed to get a hot start on a long road trip, and everything was clicking through seven innings. Third, our biggest weakness—our bullpen—couldn’t hold a 5 run lead. I was simply ecstatic through 7 innings, then was resorted to looking between my fingers as my hands covered my face the rest of the game. I have no idea how teammates can trust guys like Marmol, Gregg, or Heilman after last night’s crap. What a heartbreaker.

And to top it off—Jeff Franceour hit the dong! Jeff Franceour! Bob Brenly was amazed that Frenchy had only run the count to 3-0 ONCE this season…then Marmol did the same damn thing! Walked him on four straight pitches! This kinda thing is inexcusable.

Finally, as for the game threads…the trolls come out of the woodwork when we are losing. There’s nothing we can do about it. Get a few jabs in and make fun of them, but then just ignore the buggers. It’s been this way for a loooong time on BCB game threads, it’s not going to change. In fact, it only gets worse when we lose a lot. Deal with it.

Dan

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 8:55 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I remember Dempster imploding in New York a few years ago as worse,

but that’s just because I like beating the Mets. I agree the bullpen is our biggest weakness, and a predictable one. I’m curious whether Lou or Hendry had most input into the makeup of the pen: I think Hendry cedes too much roster responsibility to his manager.

by Inkin on Jun 3, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I felt so bad for Wells.

The guy was awesome last night. I don’t even know what to think of Marmol any more. His on again off again pitching is going to grow tiresome.

I agree something has to be done with Soto. Whatever they decide they need to do it soon.

by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately

it is a “tricky business”. I heard Todd Hollandsworth discussing the same. The “wrong” call by the manager could have some psychological lasting effects on a young player.

by The E-Man on Jun 3, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Wad

for the local report! These are always fun to read. My friend and I believe that other than Milw., St. Louis, and AZ – Atlanta may have the most Blue fans of any city.

by The E-Man on Jun 3, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Its hit or miss in Atlanta

Out of the other 4 games I have been to this year, I have always had at least 1 knowledgeable fan near me.

But then again you also have the guy who bought the ticket to get the free admission to the local exotic dance club after the game.

Both are interesting.

Its a funny story actually.

by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to think about this game,

all I have to say is Randy Wells look very similar to Chris Carpenter. I’m talking strictly looks, not sure if that comparison has been made here.

Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...

by slocs55 on Jun 3, 2009 9:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I hope he isn't that

Pitching stuff wise that would be an okay thing, but Chris Carpenter is far from a reliable pitcher.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, who wants a pitcher who won 15, 21, and 15 games in three straight years

he’s hard injury problems the last few years, but when he’s healthy, he’s as reliable as they come. Oh, and he’s 3-0, with a 0.62 ERA this season

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You take Harden, Prior, Wood, and Carpenter

I’ll take pitchers who stay healthy.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just giving more examples of pitchers who get hurt

I don’t understand people’s love of pitchers who are always getting injured.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have a love of pitchers who always get hurt

but claiming you don’t want Randy Wells to be anything like Chris Carpenter is sort of ridiculous

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would prefer Randy Wells not become a pitcher

who is paid 15 million and gets hurt every season. If he has the same stuff, fine. But I don’t want to hear the names of injured pitchers thrown around, because they are just that- injured pitchers who are full of empty promises.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again,

I was just talking about their appearance.

Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...

by slocs55 on Jun 3, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting...

kandybear said the exact same thing last night…

by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone think

that Marmol is falling into the every other year thing for relievers because of the overuse the year before? His walk rate is horrible.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 9:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ding ding ding ding ding

Lou’s blankie for the past two years, plus all the winter ball he threw. His arm has been used and abused.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think walking every first batter you face has to do with arm trouble.

I think it has to do with being mentally prepared to pitch when you come into the game. Marmol has been giving us this first-batter-jitters for the whole season now.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

He had stuff breaking a foot. Just not over the plate. Not indicative of arm trouble, but trouble between the ears.

by thermal54 on Jun 3, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

loss of command

IS indicative of arm trouble

it happens ALL THE TIME.

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if he's got arm trouble,

I’m sure we’ll hear about it shortly.

If we don’t .. then what will you say?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so is this what its come down to?

he has to get hurt for my thesis that his arm is fatigued and it’s effecting his performance to be accurate????

I thought the completely different pitcher we’re watching on the mound this year would be enough

let me ask you this…. is this the same Marmol you saw last year?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's actually a fairly interesting question

he certainly went through a stretch where he was terrible, and pulled out of it. Isn’t it possible this is just Marmol’s thing? He has a terrible stretch and then pulls out and becomes dominant

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is exactly what people defer to

except this “terrible stretch” is now 1/3 of the season…. at what point do you admit its not just a bad stretch

Marmol has never had this extended a period of a stretch like this since he’s converted to a reliever over 3 years ago

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So he's never been good

this season? Is that what you’re saying?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

terrible is a relative term for him

used by the poster above, not my words

he’s been “good” compared to other mediocre relievers, but for Marmol he hasn’t been “the Marmol we are used to” very often

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's had his good days

and his bad days, just like last year. And just like 2006, when he couldn’t find the plate with both hands.

Do you remember that?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2006...

you mean when he was a starter?

as a reliever he’s NEVER had this level of command issues for this extended a period of time

his 2006 relief numbers are identical to his 2007, 2008 BB Rates

2006 BB Rates as reliever: 3.86 BB/9
2007 BB Rates as reliever: 4.54 BB/9
2008 BB Rates as reliever: 4.23 BB/9
2009 BB Rates as reliever: 8.63 BB/9

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a starter

Yes, not as a reliever.

Please, call Jim Hendry and have him give Marmol an MRI, so we can end this foolishness once and for all.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please provide us with the number

I’ll be happy to make that call.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a minute!

that number didn’t work!

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously

You suggest I call Jim Hendry, provide me with his direct line and I will be more than happy to make a phone call to him.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

again...

you’re focused on whether he’s hurt or not as being the indicator

i’m focused on his performance not being anywhere close to the same and FATIGUE effecting that performance and perhaps disguising an injury or that fatigue is increasing the chances of an injury down the road

FATIGUE EFFECTING PERFORMANCE IS MY ARGUMENT

not that he’s absolutely 100% hurt right now. There’s a chance he’s not, there’s a chance he is, i dont know. What i do know is this isn’t the same guy we had watched for 2 years prior

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

spot on

this guy (Marmol) is on pace to appear in 84 games this year after appearing in 82 last year. This workload is bound to catch up with him. There have been games he has appeared in that certainly he didn’t need to and last night was on of them.

Hendry and Piniella both to blame on this.

Why exactly is David Patton on the roster if he never pitches except in blowouts??

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Jun 3, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patton is a Rule 5 draft pick.

Barring a trade, the only way to get any value for him is to bury him in the bullpen for the season.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

understood..

but essentially you’ve decided to play with a 24 man roster whilst the rest of the league uses 25..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Jun 3, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to ensure

Marmol blows out his arm????

smart move by the Rockies

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also think

it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out his bread and butter is the white castles so no need to be extra agressive. I’m sure he’s very well known to everyone in baseball by now.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then could it be

that he is overtaxed mentally by constantly walking a tightrope every other day for so long?

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

control tends to go

when you have an arm injury.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

It’s mental at this point. He’s lights out filthy one minute and then very wild the next.

by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Walking the first batter

seems to be perfectly acceptable for all our relievers.

Drive, Monkey Drive!

by VegasCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder

if he hasn’t become afraid to pitch to contact and instead tries to strike everyone out. The blown save/loss in the WBC seems to have really gotten into his head.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i made an entire post about this

using statistics to suggest as such and the majority of the community here chooses to believe ANY other excuse they can come up with, whether its: a) Mental; b) alternating years of bad command (which doesn’t statistically hold up but that’s cool); c) just a poor start, and needs more time, etc

people choose their side of the argument and then stay in it, refusing to acknowledge strength in the other side’s argument or bring any “proof” to the table. They just always return to “mental” something that can’t be proved…

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fox...

Tearing the cover off the ball, doesn’t even get a chance to swing the bat in a 12-inning game?

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 9:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+100!

Lou sometimes looks clueless in the dugout.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With

Bradley’s latest boo boo, Fox needs to get some starts in RF.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Jun 3, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doubtful...

With Reed hitting lately, Lou will probably go with RJ in CF and Dome in RF.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.

And yesterday people were discussing the “best way” to give Johnson more at-bats…

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Start Fox at 3rd Base

I like Fontenot but he is too short to play 3rd. Escobar hit a ball by him in the 12th and eventually came around to score. A normal sized 3rd Baseman makes that play at 3rd, it was really a catchable ball, that Ramirez gets too. I would like to see Fox at 3rd for a few days. Lou has put him in there during the 9th inning of a few games (last week) so why can’t he start a game there?

by tripdenten on Jun 3, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

If this trip bears craptastic results, then yes. By all means. But for the next few games in Atlanta and Cincinnati, I wouldn’t experiment with Fox at 3B quite just yet.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because other teams will exploit that weakness.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would

Fontenot can not make routine plays at 3rd base because he is too short, it happens almost every game, and can cost us runs. How is that worse that at least trying Fox there? At least Fox played 3rd in the minors consistently, where as Fontenot did not. I am sorry but you can’t play 3rd base if you’re 5’6.

by tripdenten on Jun 3, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he makes the routine plays fine.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're overvaluing height.

Fontenot may be short, but he’s not too short to field a ground ball or bunt and get the ball to first base. Apparently, Jake Fox can’t even do that much dependably. I’d rather stick with LBR than roll the dice on Jake’s alleged ability to snare the odd liner over his head – and I emphasize alleged.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just threw up a little bit

in my mouth.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just want to apologize

For my behavior on the boards last night. I was out drinking with some friends before getting on the game threads right before the Cubs had their meltdown.

Not that it should be any sort of an excuse, but I was pretty quick to challenge anyone who was attacking my team, and in doing so, I was using some pretty poor language choices.

Again, I want to say sorry to whomever might have been offended by my language.

I love this community, and should respect it as such.

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeahbut...what were you drinking?

Spotted Cow? Fat Squirrel Brown Nut? PBR? Karkoff?

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol, Killians and Bud Light Lime

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's an interesting mix . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah no kidding

Don’t know how it ended up happening, or how I was drinking on a Tuesday night

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It happens

I was tempted to hop into the game thread as my roomates and I were drinking and watching the cubs and the cards game, but man when Gregg blew it, I would have been in there ripping him apart, glad I didnt.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I was in rare form last night

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's almost as bad

as drunk calling your ex g/f.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh man that sure is fun

I respect BCB much more than the ex lol

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

aw, man...

how’m’I supposed to respect you now? BLL? Ew.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To each his own bro!

I love the stuff. Can’t help it

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoy it also

Especially when it is extremely hot outside. Like GA in the summer.

Its a funny story actually.

by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep. They have the summer state of mind thing correct

My first BLL experience was Alpine Valley last year tailgating for DMB. Re-Fresh-Ing.

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Man

It takes a big man to admit a mistake. And if they didn’t lit beer drinkers on this blog, most of us would be gone.

by CubbieFaninOhio on Jun 3, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chris Robinson

the catcher the Cubs got from Detroit in the Neifi deal, is hitting around .333 in Iowa. Until now, his rep was a good defensive catcher who couldn’t hit.

Bring him up and send Soto down.

by Clark Addison on Jun 3, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That sounds exactly like Soto

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean "Fats" Soto?

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds Exactly like a ROTY we have on our team

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's time for Soto to sit.

It’s June, we’re two months into the season. Our offense has been a big problem all year.

We have a guy who’s surprisingly hitting very well in Koyie Hill. We can’t afford to continue to trot Geo out there when he’s simply not getting it done.

by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Turning Point

I can’t help but feel as if last night’s game will be looked back on after the season as the turning point of 2009. For all of it’s problems, this team is only 4 games out. How they respond to last night’s lose will, IMHO, determine the fate of the ’09 season.

Here’s to hoping that the Cubs dwell only on the positives from last night and get the first W of the road trip tonight.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jun 3, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point

The so-called “turning point” in 2007 was against the Braves, too.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the Soto talk...

and no mention of Hank White……

Guys isnt it funny that Hank White leaves and Soto starts to suck?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Now, here...

… you’re going to get all the people pointing out that Blanco has been bad this year, and that’s true.

But sometimes a player’s value to a team is beyond statistics.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beyond...statistics...does...not...compute...

Yeah, I agree. I said something just like this a few months ago. I think it was too early in Soto’s development to let Hank go.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been saying this all year.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup. We need him back. Too late now.

Thanks, Lou and your LH hitting!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, not this, too

We’re already in mourning around here for DeRosa and Wood. Now you’re going to throw a .179-hitting backup catcher into the bonfire, too?

I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again: If this team is thrown into a major tailspin because it no longer has a journeyman infielder, a backup catcher and an oft-injured reliever, than it wasn’t that good in the first place.

Christ on a bike.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.

Blanco was/is a decent hitter for a backup, was GREAT defensively behind the plate, called a great game, and was obviously an important mentor to Geo.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fine, then

The reason this team is .500 has nothing to do with missing its best hitter for an extended period, nor that many of the other regulars — almost all of whom were on the team last year — are underperforming.

It’s because they don’t have a spunky utility man, a closer who’s always one pitch away from ending his career and a journeyman catcher who can’t bat his weight, who even though he’s good defensively has been more than exceeded by his replacement.

I give up. You people are geniuses.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or you can stop putting words into peoples' mouths

We are simply saying that Soto’s struggles may have something to do with Blanco’s absence, plain and simple. So, relax with the “genius” comments, ok?

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was talking about Hank White...

You desided to bring up Wood and DeRosa….

Who misses who?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh look, another personal attack

how strange.

Did anyone, ANYONE say the reason the team is .500 is because Henry Blanco isn’t here?

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That certainly is the implication

Hank White’s not here, so Soto sucks, so maybe if Hank White were here, Soto wouldn’t suck and the team would maybe win a few more games.

Insanity.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is hilarious

you run around this site constantly setting up strawman arguments, then knocking them down, and calling people names.

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to bug you

It’s my mission in life.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now I know

how Dan Bernstein feels sometimes on his radio show.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look it up

I’m not doing your homework for you.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't ask you who it was. I don't care who it is

like I said, I’m sure it think it was hugely clever.

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not nearly as clever

as “WanderingWanderer” is. A real laff riot.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oooooh burn!

I suppose in grade school making fun of someone’s name might actually serve a purpose, not so much here

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lest somebody

think it was really him, genius.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so, your contention is that, you were forced to use the name

Bruce Froemming in some way, and as a courtesy to the rest of us, you put a “not” in front of it?

You crack me up

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

1030 in the morning and this stuff already? Com’on guys.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeeze. Nevermind.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sigh

it appears that BLou’s cranky grandmother has gotten into everyone’s rice-krispies this morning…

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My dad can beat up your dad.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Jun 3, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you using the third person and referring to yourself as “it”?

by ol Pete on Jun 3, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

usually

I more or less back you up. But you’re missing the point on Henry Blanco’s value.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

another victim of hitting right handed

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was a good backup

But does he make that much of a difference? No. If he did, he wouldn’t be a journeyman, now would he?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not a matter of his performance

on the field.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off the field

can be important too, of course. But does every player need a security blanket? And if some do, is it worth keeping them on the roster solely for that reason? I’m not sure it is.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanco

was a good back-up catcher. We didn’t keep him for his bat. IIRC, we ended up paying Bako and Hill about the same amount as Blanco was going to get. It was just one more change that didn’t really have to happen. He was going to play in maybe 60 games, and start maybe 30. But the intangibles he provided may have proved to be more important than his in-game performances.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There were rumblings that the Cubs weren't happy with his approach late last year

I’m not sure if they felt that outweighed the mentor aspect or not.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember that

and I don’t know. Perhaps Soto told them that he was fine without Blanco. Perhaps they didn’t ask him.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they'd take a player's feelings into consideration

But it wouldn’t be the main criteria

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

and it’s the sort of decision that you only think is bad in hindsight.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't buy that, drew

If that were the case, those intangibles would have kept him in Minnesota or Atlanta or Milwaukee.

Remember, the cemeteries are filled with people who can’t be replaced..

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

because he didn’t find someone like Soto whom he bonded with so well.

It’s all speculation. I don’t deny it.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I know

I guess we’ll never know. But it’s hard to believe it would make that much of a difference.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Soto was so depressed

that he hit the fridge and ate all the ice cream.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

again, plenty of catchers had careers extended because certain pitchers had

“personal” catchers. It’s not like it’s unheard of. Blanco brought a decent bat for a backup, and good defense as well, which is usually all you look for in a backup catcher.

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So a catcher has a personal catcher, too?

Maybe Hendry can find Linus’ security blanket someplace and stick it in Soto’s locker.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude, just TRY not being obstinate for five minutes

the point is, you behave as if keeping Blanco, (who contributed to the team on the field as well) in PART because he was mentoring Soto, and that might have helped Soto’s development is COMPLETELY unheard of.

It’s not. It’s been done in other situations.

It’s not like Blanco was 0 for 159 last season, and couldn’t throw to second base on the fly

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hank White

won us at least one game with his bat, IIRC.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Game winning RBI in the 10th (or 11th?) against the Cards. It was the Edmonds 2 HR game.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also think it bears mentioning that Hendry's original replacement plan

was Paul Bako, who at the plate is (at best) the equivalent of Blanco, but didn’t have the relationship with Soto that Blanco did.

It seemed entirely to be a move just to make a move. And is one of the many that had me scratching my head about this offseason

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a move

to save money more than anything.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

funny

but didn’t Blanco and Bako sign for the same amount of money?

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Blanco made a couple hundred thousand more

but I also don’t know what Bako’s buyout was

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanco's buyout

was $300,000. He signed with the Padres for 1 year and $750,000. His previous contract with the Cubs was 2 yrs $5.25 million.

Paul Bako carries a $178,279 payroll obligation for the Cubs in 2009.

So, assuming Blanco signed with the Cubs for the same amount he signed with the Padres, the Cubs saved about $270,000. It’s possible the Cubs saved more because we don’t know what the Cubs would have re-signed Blanco for.

(All Contract info from here)

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The market collapsed

Jim Hendry didn’t see it coming (a lot of people didn’t) and got stuck with some questionable deals that would have been just fine the year before (Dempster in particular). I don’t think anybody thought that Hank White would sign for what he did.

Now, I forget the timing of the deals, so I may be wrong about Hank. But Hendry seemed to have a clear plan, and he executed it.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess

but how much did we end up saving? It’s not like Blanco was going to demand a multi-year contract worth millions a year.

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn't Bako

a lefty?

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the phrase is a left handed compliment

and the insult is on us.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok, so check it out

NBF, look at this response, and then look at your response to me right above it.

Do you see the difference? that’s what people are complaining about. I’ve essentially said the same thing as WW (who I rarely agree with, I think), and your responses are completely different in tone.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And

You have perspective enough to balance the good and the bad.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

I still think far too much is being made of Blanco’s worth.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hank White's value

wasn’t necessarily as a player, but as Soto’s quasi coach/father-figure/swami.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And many of us said so when he wasn't tendered

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

me too.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if Soto would have reported in better shape

If he knew Hank White would be going Red Foreman on him.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess Soto should just quit now

since he’ll probably never play with Blanco again. So sad.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soto should quit...

eating so much

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no question Soto misses his mentor

Didn’t Geo hit his only homer while Blanco was in town?

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boooooooo

If thats truly the case then we need to set these guys up with a webcam or something. Lots of guys have mentors and that doesnt mean you’re attached at the hip and “can’t go on” without them.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

tell that to Greg Maddux

who played most of his career with a “personal” catcher

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny...

How Maddux liked Hank to catch for him too isnt it?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gee, wasn't Maddux Marshall's mentor, too?

And he seems to be just fine. Oh, wait, maybe he wouldn’t have gotten lit up by the Dodgers the other night if Maddux had been here …

Again — Cubs fans sometimes deserve all the ridicule they get.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since 1971

but reading some of this stuff makes me embarrassed to admit it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reading some of your stuff...

makes us embarrassed to admit it.

:)

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Atta boy...

right on Q!

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It COULD be Q

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Q?

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep it coming.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

TWSS

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but reading writing some of this stuff makes me embarrassed to admit it.

Fixed it for you

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

different people

work different ways, Bruce. Marshall has a lot more experience than Soto, and the expectations for him are significantly different.

It’s just a theory, anyway.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure about the experience factor

Marshall also doesn’t play every day, either.

There is such a thing as a sophomore slump. But I’m not ready to say Soto would be hitting .300 if Blanco still were around, and I think most baseball people would say the same thing.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course we woulnd't say that.

Blanco wouldn’t have prevented Soto’s slump. But he MIGHT have been able to help Soto work OUT of the slump. There’s a lot to be said for having someone be a true mentor for you.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Long distance

It’s the next best thing to being there. :)

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

but it’s not all that good, either. Plus, Blanco works for a different team now.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The personal catcher

was not his mentor… it’s two different things. My wife and I make a good team. That doesnt mean I’m reduced to tears and can’t function with out her.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you take that theory...

Why did you marry her? Honestly? I am not being an ass – it is a legit question.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

I don’t understand the question. Are you saying I should do all things with my wife at all times because I married her?

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No no...

I was saying you probably married her because you work well together and you build off of each other – if you didnt, you might be single or married so someone you did work well with.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

I wasn’t saying I’d be ok if she died. I meant, we don’t have to be attached at the hip 24/7. As good of a tandem as we are, we are each able to function just as well on our own.

The comparison to Soto and Blanco is a whole different thing. Sure it could have an impact that Blanco is gone, but not to this degree. That’s all.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay fair enough....

i see what you are saying.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's a corolary there

some players are more comfortable with certain players.

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the answer

is probably somewhere in between. Soto’s working under a lot of pressure, he’s young, and there are huge expectations.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for adding gas to the fire

but check this flipping bullcrap. This sorry SOB has done it before. I call shenanigans and a boycott campaign towards Escobar.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

like i said above

This guy finds himself in the middle of a lot of crap.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

You see those guys go down clasping their heads when someone goes near them and accidentally bumps them.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thing is

that soccer ref’s usually buy this type of bull. Umpires shouldn’t.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

apparently they do

since Escobar took first on that flop

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well do I remember that

From the World Cup in Germany a few years ago.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that was the elite from around the world

You wouldn’t imagine the travesties I witness every weekend watching Mexican soccer…

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we should nominate him for an award

Best acting job.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT

what ballpark was that picture taken in, VT cubs fan?

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller Park

I went to a Cubs game there in June 2007. Z’s first start after he punched Barrett.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice! :)

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was

Cubs scored a lot of early runs, and took the Brewers fans out of the game. Offhand guess, 55% Cubs fans, 45% Brewers fans.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also,

I had AMAZING seats … out in the front row of the loge section out in left field.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

seeing as how you're 4-0 since 2004

I think you need to hop a flight to atlanta! :)

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to

I’m going to do my part on the West Coast in August and September. San Diego and Los Angeles in August, San Francisco in September.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I should update my sig line

I’ve got a lifetime 5-0 Cubs record. The other game was a win in San Diego in 1989.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and tell him

streaks/highlights in your hair are not cool.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When does Lilly pitch?

Somebody should give him a real reason to cry. It would be double special in Atlanta.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He goes tonight.

Lilly vs. Derek Lowe.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wells is a good guy.

Courtesy of MLB.com:

Wells tried to see the big picture. “I’m not really worried about that now,” he said of having his first win slip away.

But he had to admit later, “It stinks not getting the win. But stuff happens. That’s baseball.”

Im glad that he actually expresses the fact that he is disappointed, but having this happen again, It’s amazing that he isn’t pissed off. It seems like he is handling the whole thing well. I think he should have just pitched a CG and we would be talking about a win right now.

by adam316 on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Game Great Loss - The Memory Lingers

This was a tough loss and the memory of it is going to linger on. This is the kind of loss that will be, like past losses, in the back of my head during important games. It will be felt in the nervous energy at Wrigley during close games and heard in the screams and boos.

It seems easier to forget the good games and great wins but not these terrible losses.

by mph3 on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's the same in poker

Like they say in Rounders, you can recall with tremendous clarity the exact situations in which you’ve lost big hands, but can hardly remember the details surrounding how you’ve won or won consistently

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al

Enjoyed chatting with you Sunday night. Too bad that first inning ended the game early. The game last night was brutal. Hopefully the Cubs can forget about it and try to beat the Braves tonight.

by LT on Jun 3, 2009 10:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Speechless.

It’s going to take me a while to process this loss. I just cannot believe how many good-to-great starting pitching performances this team has thrown in the garbage this season. I’m trying to draw hope from the strength and consistency of the starting rotation, but a loss like last night worries me that this team is turning into one that finds ways to lose rather than ways to win.

The only meager bright sides I can see – besides the forementioned starting pitching, DLee’s continued success at the plate and a nice play by Dome (who’ll probably see more time in RF with Milton out) – is that the Brewers and Reds lost, too. So the Cubs remain pretty close to both in the standings. As they’re wont to do, however, the Cards won.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This one reminds me of some game in 2007

The Cubs were up 5-1 or 5-0 against the Mets at Shea going into the bottom of the ninth, and then they couldn’t get any outs.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The days of Dumpster trying to close out games

I think that happened right before Lou’s blowup.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at that game. :(

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wuertz...

Walked in the winning run in one of those games.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could live with an '07-esque team...

…that eventually pulls itself together and plays consistently enough to win the division. I’m more worried about an ‘05-esque team that just succumbs to mediocrity. (I’m not yet quite to the point of invoking the horrific specter of 2006.) Again, the bright side is the Cubs still have a strong starting staff. I’m really clinging to that.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the game you're talking about.

May 17, 2007 at Shea.

Dempster actually left the game with a two-run lead. It was Scott Eyre who gave up two straight hits allowing the Mets to win.

That was a defeat just about as crushing as last night. And yet, the 2007 Cubs made the playoffs.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yikes, thanks for the memories!

Incidentally, the Cubs weren’t the only team to blow a late-inning lead yesterday. The D-backs were leading the Dodgers 5-1 going into the bottom of the 8th when the Dodgers scored 5 & won the game 6-5.

by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slowly but surely on Lee

April was brutal, May was pretty good and June off to a good start too. I hope he keeps it up. Last night, everything seem’d to be going SO well. I was already thinking this could be THE game to turn things around. From one extreme to another.

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Missed the Carnage

Went to bed as Marmol was warming up and thought “Oh geez, he’s going to walk a couple guys so this will end 5-3.” Wow, I’m just glad I did not stay up for the rest of the sh*t show

Milton Bradley & Kevin Gregg: Didn’t want them then, have less enthusiasm for them now.

MB will be a total waste of 20MIL. DeRo will have better numbers than him at the end of this year alone, will play more games, would not have been a distraction in the media, and would have been a great substitution in the infield throughout this year’s injuries to date and in the outfield rotation.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 3, 2009 10:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Look out...

“Not Bruce Froemming” is going to hunt you down. Dont ever talk about those guys….he gets upset.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I just get upset

when I read ignorant posts. Lot of them here lately.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then stop posting

You are the source of most of them.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, look who's talking

A source of ignorance if there ever was one.

Have a nice day, you very nice person, you!

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make no sense...

This is a baseball discussion. If we want to talk about our poor offseason we are allowed too. How is that ignorant?

Lets face it, we had a 97 win team dismantled this offseason because we failed to do anything in the playoffs. Ignorance on us for discussion it? Not really. It is a topic of discussion after a poor performance.

I mean lets look at the offseason scorecard for a minute, what has been positive about it?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

'Dismantled' is too strong a term

And it’s funny that someone’s talking about ignorance in the same sentence after he types in “too” when he means “to.”

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There ya go...

Opps ya should be you.

Let me correct you – someone’s is technically improper. it should read “someone is”.

Oh and it’s, yea you know it should read “it is”

Clearly all you have is tearing my posts apart gramatically seeing that this is the second time in as many posts, so let me ask you this what do you call this offseason? Gramatically correct or incorrect.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I call it a work in progress

And I see no evidence — none — that things would be any better if the Cubs stood pat.

The problems, for the most part, are related to people who still are here, not the ones who left.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct...

and what have the players we gained this offseason done for us?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So far, they've been about like the returnees

So far. That doesn’t mean those moves weren’t worth doing.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sooo...

maybe we dumped the players we needed to keep and traded some of the players we have now?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So keep DeRosa and Wood and Blanco

and trade Lee and Soto and Soriano.

Yep, that’s a great idea.

Ai-yi-yi.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally...

I would have traded Lee. No doubt. Soriano and Soto, obviously not. But definitely Lee. I would have traded him and i would have also tried to sign Texeria. Yea i am sure you will make fun of me for that, but We would not have had to sign Bradley, and losing Lee’s salary we might have been able to afford Texeria.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's got a full NTC

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To go where, though?

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Giants would have been a legit target

They needed a first basement and money was apparently not an issue considering that outrageous Renteria contract.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what would we have gotten back?

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

I was just answering daver’s question. Enough salary relief to keep DeRosa?

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You'd rather have Mark DeRosa

Than Derrick Lee.

That just about says it all.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, IIRC, that was discussed at length...

…following the horrific end of last season. It’s entirely possible Hendry pursued such an idea and it went nowhere. And just because the Giants spent money on Renteria doesn’t mean they would’ve spent more on DLee. I believe they were pretty high on this Ishikawa guy. And they certainly made no effort to get in on the Manny sweepstakes. PLUS, maybe DLee likes his chances of reaching the postseason with the Cubs better than his chances of doing so with the San Francisco Giants. I don’t recall too many pundits picking the Giants to see October this year.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

indeed

Hendry may have explored it, but the first question would have been to Lee, and if the answer is “no”, then that’s it. No deal.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he wasn't going to

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's that pesky

NTC again.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bad didnt know that.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

I think we have Lee and Soriano for a long time. Now, I don’t think that’s the disaster other people do, but they’re still not going anywhere.

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, we have Soriano for a long time...

Lee is off the books after next year.

by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do not.

n/t

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this was in response to

Not Bruce Froeming posting he gets upset when reading ignorant posts

it was meant as a knock on his posts…

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks buddy!

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley is totally worthless

and every team in baseball is laughing at nitwit Hendry for signing him for so much when the Cubs were the only team that wanted his brittle, crazy, ass!!!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

except

that’s not what happened. Bradley asked to come to the Cubs, from what I’ve heard.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dome has looked real good

I wonder what adjustments he made because he looks mostly the same but is hitting much better.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dome was having fun last night

He got Randy Wells’ first hit ball and got to have some fun with him.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet! Thanks dragon for the update!!

Recommending you!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good job, dragons

You have become one of the better posters on this site.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's some additional quotes

on this article -

“I got one basehit off Kenshin-san and also off LHP completely – that was pretty harvestful. Kenshin-san’s curve ball was a bit fast comparing when he was with Dragons, unlikely…”

Kenshin is elder than Dome so he has to add “-san” to call to express his respect.

Maybe they had dinner together last night or maybe tonight, are definitely going to order the best Japanese food in Atlanta… and elder person has to pay all of it ;-)

by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now that -san thing is very interesting

So when Jon Miller is calling Dome Fukudome-san next time we are on Sunday Night baseball, somebody should tell him that he is wrong because Miller is older than Dome.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well he has proven himself

a master of all languages.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

By his over emphasis...

Of all latin players accents in their names.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same here.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kinda like how

he pronounces “Aramis”? Man does that just grate. Part of me was slightly happy that Ramirez couldn’t play Sunday night because then I didn’t have to listen to Miller pronounce his name all night.

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

Miller is a good play by play guy IMO, I just wish he didn’t pretend to be Latin and Asain when a player of a different backround comes to bat.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember

Miller and Morgan did play by play for WBC and Japan’s first baseman was Michihiro Ogasawara, and it was too hard for them to pronounce, so they started call his nickname “Guts” throughout the program. That was too funny.

by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

-san

That’s not used just used to express respect for elder person but also general politeness for other person… but it is strange to use it for younger person if they are close friend. So if Kenshin call Dome as “Fukudome-san” is somewhat strange or maybe meaningful…

by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do Japanese baseball announcers often use it?

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In sporting media

they never use “-san” for all players and athlete at all.

by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok thanks

sounds about right, meaning that Miller is just saying something he thinks makes him sound Japanese.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really, Al?

“Dunn would have made Joey Gathright useful, as Gathright could have played defensive replacement virtually every day for the last couple of innings.”

A bonus to having Dunn would be that you would have to take him out for a crappier player every game for a couple of innings?

In that case, the bonus to having Milton Bradley is he gets Reed Johnson more at bats! The bonus to having Rich Harden is Randy Wells gets more starts!

You have opened my eyes to a whole new way of thinking about baseball, and for that, sir, my hat is off to you.

by Old Style & Ivy on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anything

would have made Joey Gathright useful. :D

"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A rule change allowing cars on the basepaths would have

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best centerfielder on the team. :-)

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only if

They changed the rules so you could DH for your center fielder.

by Old Style & Ivy on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's an awful hitter.

But there are uses for players who are good at defense.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

Just not for Joey Gathright in particular.

by Old Style & Ivy on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gathright's UZR numbers in centerfield are pretty impressive.

He’s proved his ability to play the position at the major league level. That’s all I’m saying.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shagging batting practice?

Working on the grounds crew?

I’d like to see Gathright race that guy at Wrigley who fetches the foul balls behind home plate.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder

if he was a better CF than Pie.

But you can’t really be the best at anything if your manager won’t let you play.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie had a cannon

I still with they hadn’t paid double Pie’s salary to get 1/2 the player in Gathright.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sheesh.

Twist my words, why don’t you?

Gathright’s only use was as a defensive replacement, something Lou refused to do with him. If Adam Dunn gets four AB in the first seven innings and you put Gathright in for defense, you’ve used both of them to their best, haven’t you?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that's exactly what I'm saying, too.

If Dome was playing center, you move him over to right field to replace Dunn and put a defensive specialist like Gathright in center. Then you win the game.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if only

it were that easy… :D

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guess we'll never know.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a .500 type ballclub playing .500 baseball

It really is no more complicated than that I have concluded. This is a poorly constructed roster with a significantly bloated payroll situation that is what it is.

The lineup? Derrek Lee is what he is at this stage. Ditto Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot. Alfonso Soriano remains what he is too (sure, he’ll go on a couple of hot streaks at some point). Geovany Soto sucks and will actually take place next to Rick Wilkins in the Cubs history books. Fair enough to say that this team is in need of a starting catcher. Kosuke is performing to the best of his abilities. The only player who should be doing better and will do better is Milton Bradley. The remainder of the lineup options are a mix of bench players and journeyman doing about what it is they can do. Aramis Ramirez? I’m not expecting him to be much of a factor for the rest of this season. In fact it’s to the point where he should just go under the knife and get fully ready for next season.

Bullpen? Terrible. I keep reading that Carlos Marmol and Angel Guzman are a dynamic duo, but that is over-reaching on a grand scale. Aaron Heilman sucks and is proving weekly why the Mets couldn’t wait to dispose of him. Kevin Gregg is what he is. Sean Marshall hopefully can be a savior of sorts.

Rotation? Obviously the strength. But the offensive issues of this club combined with a woeful bullpen can’t be overcome to the degree to be anything more than a .500 type club.

Manager? Lou Piniella looks like he wishes he was back home in Temple Terrace Florida working as special advisor to the Steinbrenner boys. There is little doubt in my mind he will be gone after 2009.

Future? A new owner financing $450 million to buy the Cubs combined with a horrendous payroll situation and a largely barren farm system makes me hope for an extreme makeover on the part of Ricketts….get rid of Kenney, Hendry, Piniella, Fleita, Wilkens and start over with a brand new baseball staff.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

wow...

he’s soured on sweet lou

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...rather Sweet Lou doesn't want to be here

I’m not blaming Sweet Lou for this current mess. Fact is he is doing about the best he can with the roster that has been assembled. But I read his eyes and expressions and see a person who doesn’t want to be here anymore. Lou looks like he is quitting in place similar to what he did in Tampa Bay a few years ago.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the roster assembled

is largely based on his CRY FOR LH hitting

for as much credit as Lou deserves for sorting through last season’s roster and making it extremely useful, he deserves blame for requesting a new one

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The dilemma of this club can not be neatly blamed on the insistence of going left-handed

That is way too big of an over-simplification. Cubs aren’t the mess that they are because they went all left-handed. Even if the sorely missed Mark DeRosa was still here we would be a marginally better club than we are right now.

Somebody honestly challenge me on the point made above that this is a .500 type ballclub playing .500 baseball.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

its a .500 ballclub

when you remove Aramis Ramirez, the team’s best hitter

but to go from 97 wins to say 81 wins is a HUGE jump not JUST because of the Aramis injury

it happens when you downgrade the roster significantly in the offseason. Our strength last year was a tremendous bench and great depth that allowed flexibility.

When you remove DeRosa, you removed all that flexibility and slid everyone up a spot in the totem pole. Then you try to replace those extra roster spots with below average players that tie up more salary (see Miles, Aaron) and you’re downgrading at multiple entry points on the roster

Same thing happened in the pen with the removal of Wood (who I agree shouldn’t have been signed for the contract he was given in CLE), and guys like Scott Eyre (who was removed in season last year and is the LOOGY we’ve all been looking for since)

Lou’s over-tinkering has had an impact on downgrading the roster, just like it had an impact on originally upgrading the roster

A worse roster with worse injury luck this year leaves us with a far worse team

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me challenge you on points

Would you agree that the 2008 Cubs were blessed with an inordinate amount of players who had very good production years? And that the 2008 were further blessed with relative few injuries?

The bench you speak of?

- Mike Fontenot was selectively and smartly used to maximum benefit in 08. Asking him to play everyday over-exposes the ability of a 29 year old former journeyman.
- Koyie Hill is an improvement over Henry Blanco
- Reed Johnson is still here, but not having the career type year he had last year.
- Jim Edmonds isn’t here, and lost in the argument is the fact that Edmonds and Johnson combined for nearly 100 RBIs in centerfield last year.

===

Losing Mark DeRosa utterly sucked. But losing DeRosa and Scott Eyre and blaming everything on the “going left-handed thing” is not the primary causal affect for the wheels falling off.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me challenge YOU on some points

Fontenot- can’t challenge you on that one, he isn’t a starting player on any of the other teams hoping to compete

Hill- the jury is still very much out on whether he’s actually better than Blanco. He’s been pretty good early on, but there’s no proof he’s an actual step up over the course of a full season.

Johnson- Reed didn’t have a career season last year, in fact, it was pretty much his usual type season save 2007.

Jim Edmonds isn’t here because he’s 205 years old. He’s no where else either.

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

agree on the good luck
agree the team was used appropriately last year (until the playoffs when all of the sudden Pineilla stopped managing the exact way he had all season)

Koyie Hill vs. Blanco is a minimal impact

Fontenot is being over-exposed, which is the reason he’s struggling to replicate even 80% of last year’s production. This is on Lou for requesting we get so LH

Reed Johnson is being used the same way he was last year and guess what… he’s performing even BETTER

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsre02.shtml

Here were the moves made to get LH:

Derosa becomes Fontenot (clear downgrade, both offensively and flexibility wise)
Fontenot becomes Miles (MASSIVE Drop)
Hill becomes Blanco (negligible impact)
DeRosa/Edmonds becomes Bradley (was supposed to maintain, can’t have an upgrade over the season posted last year, but has been a massive downgrade)

Throw in the crappy mismanagement of the bullpen:

sending away Chad Gaudin to keep David Patton
replacing Kerry Wood with Kevin Gregg (downgrade)
replacing Michael Wuertz with Aaron Heilman (negligible impact)
replacing Scott Eyre with Neal Cotts/Jason Waddel (huge downgrade)

all those are moves in part made at the request or suggestion of Lou Pineilla either directly through his quotes in the media or through his usage patterns of refusing to use guys

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well....

I generally agree on most points. But it still isn’t primary causal reason for why this is a .500 type ballclub playing to that actual level. I don’t think we are over-achieving or under-achieving to any degree, but merely playing to capability for the most part.

Outside of Soriano and Bradley, where is all the wondrous offensive production improvement going to come from? Soto? No. Soto is either validating my suspicion that he was a juicer in 2007-08 or has reverted back to previous non-prospect form. His swing is VERY LONG and VERY TIRED looking. And he is shockingly out of shape despite actually conducting rigorous physical activity on a daily basis as part of his job description. Fontenot isn’t going to get better (lets be frank with ourselves on that one).

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soto's significantly overweight

it has slowed his bat

in conjunction with a shoulder injury he hasn’t really had time to rest, he’s a shell of his 2008 self

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's doing the best he can

and yet, he’s given up?

Okaaaaay. If anyone else said “Lou looks like he’s given up”, you’d be screaming at them for being a girl or something.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs are the disappointment they are because of the strategic and tactical decision-making of the manager in the dugout

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meant to say "NOT because..."

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Partly Piniella's fault, partly Hendry's fault, partly just poor play...

Here are Piniella’s mistakes:
- He overreacted to the playoffs last year, wanting to get more LH. This is why Fontenot became an everyday player and we got Miles/Scales instead of DeRosa.
- He misused and then gave up too quickly on Scott Eyre, who has been fantastic as a LOOGY since leaving the Cubs. Now, we have Cotts/Waddell.
- He gave up too quickly on Chad Gaudin, sticking with “the Rule 5 kid” instead.

Here are Hendry’s mistakes:
- He thought Kevin Gregg was a good acquisition as a closer
- He thought Aaron Miles was a good acquisition as a 2 year, $4+ million utility guy
- He gambled on Bradley (though the jury is still out, it’s been rough going with the injuries so far)
- He probably overrated Dempster (again, the jury is still out, but it hasn’t looked like a good move so far based on 2009 and pre-2008)
- He overpaid a lot of guys, resulting in a bloated payroll and limited flexibility

And of course, players like Marmol, Soto, Fontenot, and Bradley haven’t produced like they expected them to perform. I’m not putting Lee in that category, as he’s rebounded with a very strong May and good start to June. And the injury to Ramirez has made things worse.

by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with just about all of this...

…except giving up Gaudin in favor of Patton. That’s likely a wash in the here and now – Chad isn’t a very good pitcher and he probably would’ve wound up on Lou’s sh*tlist if he wasn’t there already.

In other words, if Patton wasn’t buried in the pen right now, Gaudin would be. I’d rather have Patton’s upside – and I’m starting to think that the only way to get anything from the Rule 5 process is to do exactly what the Cubs are doing. Yeah, the Good General has been batted around like a toy mouse at a cat convention, but he’s also K’d 14 batters in 15.1 innings of work. So there’s some hope there.

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by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rule 5 process shouldn't be used by contenders...

That’s my beef. You’re probably right about Gaudin remaining in the doghouse. BUT, you can just as easily replace Gaudin’s name with Wuertz, who Piniella did use to some degree. We should have re-signed Wuertz (who was solid for us for years). I’d arguably rather have Wuertz (and Ceda in the minors) than Gregg. Heck – I’d rather have Wuertz and Ceda in the majors than Gregg and Patton.

by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that makes sense.

Sometimes it seems like Hendry has diluted his “win now” mentality with an almost irrational need to restock the farm system with pitching.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, that's an interesting thought.

what if he’s been told “go into rebuilding mode without looking like you’re going into rebuilding mode”?

A lot of the decisions he’s made look a little like that…

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of decisions contradict that idea though...

As we traded away a rebuilding player in the Gregg deal. And we took on more payroll with Bradley and Dempster. And we traded away “prospects” in Cedeno and Pie for Heilman.

I don’t think, on aggregate, the offseason equates to any effort to rebuild. If Hendry was looking to secretly rebuild under the auspices of competitiveness, he failed in that regard.

by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say

he was doing it well. :P

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cedeno was NOT a prospect

Not at the end of last season, anyway.

by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Wells has only given up 6 earned runs in 5 starts

And he doesn’t even have a win to show for it.

Pathetic.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yup

I think we all agree on that. Will only make that first one all the sweeter. He’ll probably give up 8 runs the next time out but gets the win because the Cubs scored 13. That’s how funny baseball is.

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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or...

He’ll break some other team’s Gatorade machine in the visiting dugout, when he loses another gem. :)

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he would throw a perfect game every time he took the mound

he wouldn’t have that problem, would he? clearly this problem can be traced back to wells…

by murphymj on Jun 3, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really reminds me of...

Getting Harden last year. Guy went like 3 or 4 starts with 10 Ks in each and didn’t get a win for the longest time…

by hmlee on Jun 3, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Going left-handed" and blaming Lou for strategic and tactical blunders isn't the reason we are a .500 type balllclub playing .500 baseball

Everyone would agree dumping DeRosa was STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. But I’ll pin that more on Hendry’s bizarre 12-step offseason improvement plan that seemed to be a series of domino moves made to have the ammunition to acquire Peavy. But lets get past DeRosa for sake of argument.

Getting left-handed? Gone are left-handed hitters Jim Edmonds and Felix Pie. In there place (sorta) is swith-hitting Milton Bradley who hasn’t done scratch yet. Is the removal of Edmond and Pie for Bradley REALLY the reason for our downfall? I don’t think so despite the fact that Edmonds was well productive in 2008.

Getting left-handed? Micah Hoffpauir replaced the role of Daryl Ward. So far at least Hoffpauir has done more than Ward ever did last season.

So what else am I missing here in the argument? When the Cubs have everybody healthy there are lefties Fontenot, Kosuke, Bradley (a switch-hitter) in the lineup. How is that overly left-handed?!? The bench includes the AWFUL switch-hitting Aaron Miles (who I pin way more on Hendry for being here) and Hoffpauir as the lefties. How is that overly lefty?!?!

Lou? You mean to tell me his alleged strategic and tactical blunders have cost this team a half-dozen plus games!?!? Please.

Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...

by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I also thought

DeRo wasn’t moved to make room for Bradley’s money, but one of about a half dozen to make room/acquire to get Peavy.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to argue your point

But we also had to have a left handed hitting back up catcher too.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DeRosa was removed for Fontenot...

you’ve conveniently overlooked that one, despite your consistent bashing of Fontenot.

The biggest reason they let DeRosa go was so that they could go with Bradley AND Fontenot, and get more LH. And they added Miles because he can also bat LH.

Convenient how you try to ignore the obvious when it doesn’t suit your argument.

by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm officially done with Kevin Gregg as our closer.

D.O.N.E. (in the words of Al). I’m also a pretty positive person when it comes to the Cubs, but Gregg just isn’t cutting it. I’m up for trying anything else, the first of which is giving Guzman the shot at closer. Clearly that isn’t the perfect solution, but at this point ANYONE would be just as good (if not better) than Gregg.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jun 3, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He should've been allowed to close yesterday's game too.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or maybe Ted Lilly.

Yeah, I said it.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lilly should throw every inning of this season

note: to those of you who like to argue with everyone on this site, this is clearly not said in a serious tone

by murphymj on Jun 3, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

SCREW YOU MAN THAT IDEA IS CLEARLY REDIC!

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Jun 3, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that idea

should be DFA’d, along with the Gatorade Dispenser.

I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Technical balk

Take your place in between the Gatorade machine and Larry.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make Harden the closer.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It worked for Wood

It would be a horrible waste of Harden’s talent, but I guess his talent doesn’t do much good in the dugout, eh?

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This idea has been tossed around quite a bit of late.

I believe one big strike against it is Harden needs an inordinate amount of time to recover from pitching. Oh, and the whole “putting a guy with elite stuff in the bullpen is a waste of his talent” thing.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the bullpen is for guys who can only throw...

fastball/slider. Let them come in, throw their only two pitches for an inning, then get out. That’s why Marmol is perfect for the bullpen.

I think you’re right about Harden’s recovery time. The bullpen isn’t likely to prevent him from breaking down – in fact, it might increase the risk.

by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is Harden's other pitch?

I thought he threw a fastball and a change.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's rumored to throw a slurve, isn't he?

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's far more valuable

as a starting pitcher than he would be as the closer. And I’d bet he can’t pitch on consecutive nights.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree with your first premise

but I think he could handle pitching on consecutive days if it’s only for an inning. Even Wood’s fragile arm was able to handle that. So was Smoltz’s

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe

but Woody spent time as a reliever first.

I just don’t think it’s worth it.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't neccesarily think it is either

I think Harden can still make this one of the best rotation in the bigs, if they can all get healthy at the same time at some point this season. But at some point in his career, Harden might find himself better suited as a closer.

It would have to be going into the season as a closer though, not switching mid-stream

by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All I'm saying is...

If you can’t get the innings you’re supposed to get out him as a starter, because of health issues, then get your best stuff in another area that can help your team just as much.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if that's the case

I’d rather turn him into a long reliever. If he can’t go every five days, have him ready to go three or four innings when Demp or Z or Lilly struggle early.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, we'll still lose the game, when our closer fails to close. LOL.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think

Gregg can turn it around.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up