All Is Not Wells: Bullpen Implosion Ruins Randy's Gem, Cubs Lose 6-5 In 12
Anyone who has been a Cubs fan as long as I have has seen some losses we'd rather forget. Last night's ugly 6-5 Cubs defeat at the hands of the Braves zoomed right up to the top of the list of horrible games that will stick in our minds for a long time. We can only hope that the players shake it off and come back and win tonight.
The bullpen meltdown ruined Randy Wells' fifth major league start -- at first, it appeared that Wells, like Kerry Wood 11 years ago in his fifth ML start, might put his name in the record books. He took a no-hitter into the seventh inning before Chipper Jones slapped a no-doubt-about it single to left with two out; Garret Anderson ruined Wells' bid for a shutout with a home run leading off the 8th, but those were the only two hits Wells allowed. When Derrek Lee made his first error of the season dropping a subsequent throw from Ryan Theriot, Wells was lifted for Carlos Marmol. Marmol's been off and on this year, and last night was definitely "off". Marmol's control was poor -- only 11 strikes in 23 pitches, and Wells was charged with a second run, unearned, when Marmol issued a bases-loaded walk, which made the score 5-2. A sac fly made it 5-3, still a very winnable game. But then Kevin Gregg came in and allowed Jeff Francoeur -- who Braves fans have nearly given up on -- to hit a game-tying, two-run homer. The Cubs had their chances in extra innings, especially in the 10th when Kosuke Fukudome doubled with two out, but the bullpen kept putting too many on base and finally, Chipper Jones sent Braves fans home happy with a game-winning single in the 12th.
Before some final analysis of this giveaway, since I am by nature a positive person, let's look at some of the good things about this game. Wells threw 83 pitches and had 58 strikes. Now think about that for a minute. In recent years some Cubs pitchers haven't gotten out of the fifth inning without throwing that many pitches. He walked no one and before Jones' single, the only baserunner had been Yunel Escobar, who was hit by a Wells pitch and then erased on a double play. I was especially pleased to see Derrek Lee put up two extra-base hits, a smash double down the line driving in one run, and his sixth homer of the season in the top of the eighth. Alfonso Soriano, who almost always gets started off by opposing pitchers with a fastball, took a 68-MPH curveball from Kenshin Kawakami for strike one, but fought Kawakami off and wound up with a leadoff home run, the 54th of his career, which put him past Craig Biggio into second place behind the all-time leader, Rickey Henderson, who hit 81 of them. It was also Soriano's first HR in 12 games; maybe this is the start of one of his hot streaks.
OK, done with the good stuff -- and beyond losing the game, the Cubs may have again lost Milton Bradley to injury. He has a right calf strain after trying to beat out an infield hit and is officially "day-to-day", though that was his status after the April injury in Milwaukee, and he wound up out for more than two weeks. To which I'm going to say tonight: I TOLD YOU SO. Forget about Bradley's outbursts -- the thing I was most worried about in this signing was his constant time out of the lineup. Who knows how bad this injury is going to be, and fortunately Reed Johnson is hot right now and so he'll play CF while Kosuke Fukudome (who was 1-for-3 against his former Chunichi Dragons teammate Kawakami) shifts over to RF. At this rate, Bradley won't make the incentives this season that would guarantee the contract for its third year, so the Cubs' future financial exposure will be trimmed.
Some of you thought the Cubs should have signed Raul Ibanez. No one could have predicted how well he'd do so far this year, but that'd be better than the half-time play of Bradley. And even Adam Dunn would have been better -- bad as he might have been in right field, at least he has been on the field for all of Washington's games this year and has played 152 or more games five straight years and six of the last seven. At this rate we'll be lucky if Bradley plays 152 games combined between this year and next. (Not to mention that Dunn is 3rd in the NL in HR, 4th in RBI, 3rd in walks, and 9th in SLG and OPS.) Dunn would have made Joey Gathright useful, as Gathright could have played defensive replacement virtually every day for the last couple of innings.
There's enough blame to go around for last night. Some may blame Lou, but he's only using the players Jim Hendry got him. Come to think of it, that might be Lou's fault, since a lot of the changes were apparently made at his behest. The bullpen, in particular, was "fixed" badly. It's not too late to fix some of the fixes, either. Like the players, we as fans need to shake it off; there's another game tonight -- and the Cubs remain only four games out of first place (and if you're keeping track this early, four games out of the wild card, too).
Final note: I received multiple email complaints about behavior in the game threads last night. In the heat of discussing a tough game like last night's, I understand people can get frustrated and upset. Profanity and personal attacks will not be tolerated.
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Comments
Randy Wells
He was fantastic last night. Time after time I watch the Cubbies go up against the kind of pitcher that Wells was last night and wonder, why don’t we have one of those? Now we do. Really great. If Fonty was a little taller he would have gotten out of the 7th with the no-hitter. Wonder what Wonder Hampster’s vertical leap measure is? 8 inches?
Lou has to realize that Marmol has to be kept on a very very short leash. It was immediately apparent that he didn’t have it last night and should have been pulled right away. Another game today. Go Cubbies!
I want my Macias!
by wombat on Jun 3, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
I’ll just write this one off to one of those 60 games that a team loses no matter what during a season.
Honestly, I think it’s safe to say that the Cubs’ bullpen is NOT going to blow a lot of 5 run leads this year, no matter what people think about them.
Bad luck, moving on.
"From childhood's hour I have not been as others were - I have not seen as others saw." - Alone, Edgar Allan Poe
by Edgewood on Jun 3, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I think this was one of the 60 games we win
Except that we lost. Also the bullpen is primed to blow many five run leads the way they’ve been pitching.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Many five-run leads'
Seriously? You really believe that?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I guess
your baseball knowledge is less than zero.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct sir
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess even a stopped clock
is right twice a day.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he not entitled to an opinion
The way that our bullpen is currently pitching, they will give up a lot of five run leads. Marmol is walking almost a batter an inning (probably more now after last night), Heilmann can’t get anyone out, Gregg hasn’t exactly been effective, and Lou doesn’t really trust anyone else. The only one in our bullpen that has consistently pitched well is Guzman. Having only one effective pitcher in your bullpen will result in a lot of blown leads.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you see a lot of bullpens
blowing five-run leads all the time in baseball, too. Not.
And no, not everybody is entitled to an opinion. Think about it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"And no, not everybody is entitled to an opinion."
seriously? How freaking big is your ego?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since not everyone
is entitled to one, you just lost yours.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I mean
“I think all Chinese people are stupid.”
If someone says “That’s my opinion,” does that make it OK?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That has to be some kind of record...
from first comment to personal attack…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 3, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok that is fair...
But the timing of such events could be a killer.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, but..
“bad luck, moving on” seems like quite an understatement. I am a 26 year old lifelong Cards fan from Belleville, IL. I was pumped up to see Randy Wells getting the call earlier this season, as I was one year younger than him in our school days. It is very cool to see him doing so well – even if it is with the Cubbies. His season numbers (minus the wins) are pretty similar to some guy named Chris Carpenter, who I heard is pretty good. My point/question:
Since I only watch Cubs games when Randy is starting, I only have that sample to go from, but is the bullpen really that bad? It looks like a disaster from the handful of games that I have seen.
"I've played a couple of hundred games of tic-tac-toe with my little daughter and she hasn't beaten me yet. I've always had to win. I've got to win." - Bob Gibson
by MUGATU on Jun 3, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts on Ibanez...
No one would have predicted his hot start – but he always seems to get 100 rbi’s a season. So to say you could not predict his start fine (the HRs are a little off), but he is always around a 100 rbi’s.
I personally think the Cubs gave up on Fukudome too early.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 8:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh and Dunn...
If he only played at Wrigley (81 games) i am sure he would hit 40 HRs a season. That was reason enough to sign him.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been trying
not to think about these 2 guys…I even traded away Dunn on my fantasy team so I dont have to see all his HR and high OPS everyday.
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn would have been a disaster in right
As for Ibanez, Lou managed him before. The fact that the Cubs showed no interest in him is probably a sign that Lou didn’t want him again (rightly or wrongly).
by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why
does Lou not order Jones walked w/ 1st base open? Apparently, he couldn’t hear me screaming through the tv screen.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Jun 3, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
1st base open...
1 out, setup the DP… I don’t get it.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely inexcusable.
That’s baseball 101 right there — don’t let the other team’s best hitter beat you. ESPECIALLY with first base open and when walking him will setup the inning ending double play.
There is zero logic in pitching to him.
by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
In fact, they probably should also have walked McCann after that to set up a force at every base.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not McCann
not when your bullpen is near the top @ walking batters. But c’mon Chipper is on the All Contact all the Time Team…. why?!
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah not McCann
Then you put the winning run 90 feet away with a possible WP/PB. But not walking Chipper was a baseball crime.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree.
1st and 2nd with one out, you don’t IBB the next guy to put the winning run at 3rd with only one out. Had there have been two outs in that situation, I would agree. But not with one.
McCann is a catcher. He’s slow. You should expect your pitcher to be able to induce a DP on him. Terrible managing.
by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I agree with this.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
You don’t let the other team’s best hitter beat you with first base open. I told my son they should be walking Chipper there because he will beat you most of the time.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I usually trust Lou in crunchtime decisions like this...
…but not walking Chipper last night was mind-boggling. I was baffled. Was he asked this in the post-game?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unintentional Walk
Since the runner stole second on a 3-1 strike, I can see pitching to Jones – but never throw him a strike. And never, never , never, never a low pitch he can drive. Throw it up in his eyes. If he swings, he pops it up. If not, then it’s a walk.
by CubbieFaninOhio on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or at least bring in Waddell
to pitch to him. Bob said over and over that Jones has a bum right toe and cannot bat right handed, plus, if Jones does get on McCann is on deck. Lou should have brought Waddell in in that situation I think.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For his MLB debut?
I don’t know if that would’ve been the best idea.
by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You and Santo
He was pissed all game, but moreso when he saw Heilman about to pitch to Chipper.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was one of the most frustrating games I've seen
in a very long time. What on earth does it take to get Randy Wells a win?! He’s been OUTSTANDING and nothing to show for it.
And as much as what I’m about to say pains me, Geo needs a break. He deserves some blame as well. Kevin Gregg had to get 4 outs that inning because of the PB, that 2 run homer should never have happened. He looks shoddy throwing people out as well. They need to figure something out there, this is just ridiculous. :(
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on Jun 3, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One other thing
Guzman was pretty good last night all things considered. What would happen if we ever got our best out of the pen consistently…
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on Jun 3, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Gregg
the Hr shouldnt have happned but it was a terrible pitch. Francouer cant hit any other pitch and Gregg decides to leave a fastball down the middle, that cant happen.
by Aramis Ramirez on Jun 3, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geo made a LOT of good plays last night
But he also made a lot of sloppy plays, and made easy plays look hard. Hill should get a shot. Something is not right with Geo.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last night was
DIS-GUST-ING. Marmol is becoming a liability and Lou doesn’t pull the plug on him quick enough. After Wells’ great start the clun should be able to hold on to a 4 run lead.
by sdurst on Jun 3, 2009 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marmol
has all the symptoms of “Rich Hill” disease. Hope he finds a cure before the season’s over.
by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh stop it.
That’s way too extreme. Remember how he entered the ASB last year? Then he had a great outing during the ASG and was lights out. He’ll be fine, let’s not overreact.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 3, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm... wonder what happened during that period...
oh right…
Marmol got SIGNIFICANT rest
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he got a day off before the ASG, and two days off after the ASG
how is that significant?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
from July 10-19
he pitched in two games (including the ASG performance)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=marmoca01&t=p&year=2008
give me another 10 day span in which Marmol is used just twice
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good idea.
But to compare him to Rich Hill is crazy pills talk. He’s gone through this before and he’s recover. Not to mention, he’s never been pooped on while pitching ( at least that we know of).
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 3, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've been consistent for over a year now
that Marmol’s declining command is PHYSICAL FATIGUE nothing mental
I made a long post about it last year assessing the over-use and suggesting this could have long-term effects
I followed it up this year with an extended post about how we may be realizing those losses now in terms of Marmol’s effectiveness due to the overuse last year and the consistent mismanagement of him this year
so no… i’m not the guy to agree it has anything to do with mental issues
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why couldn't Wells pitch the entire game?
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on Jun 3, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good question.
At 83 pitches, he could have at least finished the 8th.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially in a 5-0/5-1 game.
n/t
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was ok with him being lifted at that point
Marmol should have been able to do the job.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
Wells was losing hsi ability to locate his pitches. They were starting to get into good hitting spots. Wells is a young pitcher and I think it was for the best at that point to get him out of the game with a resounding success under his belt.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 3, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol
had been used in 4 of the last 5 days either in the game or warming up
had he not been used in those prior games (two of them games decided by 5 runs or more), perhaps he would’ve been more effective
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the numbers suggest as much
but you could care less about numbers….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
proof
Marmol Career BB’s/9 as a reliever, based on usage patterns
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=marmoca01&year=Career&t=p
0 Days, GR = 6.08 BB/9 (50 1/3 innings)
1 Days, GR = 4.95 BB/9 (72 2/3 innings)
2 Days, GR = 4.61 BB/9 (27 2/3 innings)
3 Days, GR = 3.26 BB/9 (19 1/3 innings)
Can we see the trend?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't your chart
previously list four, five and six days of rest?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
responded in the other thread on this
but the 4-5-6+ all combined for 20 1/3 innings and the BB/9 is 3.72
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question.
Is it like that for every pitcher?
by cubsfaninatl on Jun 3, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells..
should have been given a much longer leash. His short time in the big leagues he has demonstrated a good ability to work out of trouble. In this case, the trouble wasn’t even that serious.
Maybe Piniella was saving Wells for game 4 of the division series..
The journey is the reward!
by wicubfan on Jun 3, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was all set to post a big "CONGRATULATIONS" to former Lansing Lugnut Wells on his first major league win.
He’s been great this season. Unfortunately, he seems to have picked up the “hard luck” mantle this season. He deserved better last night and this season. Hang in there Randy.
As for the rest of the game, I agree with your initial assessment Al. This one goes up to if not at the top of the “BAD CUBS GAMES” ladder. This one stunk.
I guess the lesson here is when you strive to build a balanced team, you go 81-81.
Sigh…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jun 3, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
At least we have a keeper in Wells
Though I’m interested to see what happens the second time he starts against a team. Still I was awful excited watching him mow down hitters and keep his pitch count down.
The problem has become Geovany Soto and his lack of power/defense. That was a very blockable pitch from Gregg last night, and Soto couldn’t get his body in front of it. If he isn’t going to hit for plus power then Koyie Hill should start and Soto should be sent to AAA. Tell him to go down there, lose 10 pounds, and hit homers. The PCL should allow him to get his power stroke back that way the good Geovany Soto is back and we don’t have to watch this new Soto become more and more useless.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hill made a great stop
after just coming into the game on a pitch from Heilman with a man on 3rd.
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even better
Personally I would have strapped him into a treadmill a month ago and made him run until he was back in shape.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean don't the Cubs
have trainers and staff to help the players who need to be in better shape?
by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His situation reminds me of Andruw Jones a bit
I don’t understand how a professional athlete can get out of shape. Odds are he thought he could get away with gaining a little weight before spring training, then discovered that his body can’t shed the weight as easily.
Or he is still eating too much against the wishes of the training staff.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaq reports to every training camp overweight...
… and every year i wonder how he gets away with it.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because there isn't a human being alive
with the balls to take on Shaq. Also Shaq has risen to media-bulletproof status, which means he can get away with anything.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Shaq should open a school for professional athletes and teach “media-bulletproof status 101” and “reporting to camp overweight 201.”
Seriously, it’d be an interesting case study: how did Shaq achieve that status?
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Him and Barkley can be co-founders
I don’t know how Barkley got there, but Shaq did it by being a funny guy who all the media people liked, I’m sure there are some other factors as well.
I think about the Kobe rap from last year and wonder how many people would have gotten killed in the media for that.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you would have attended
Winning Championships 101 you may have known
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could never make it to 8 o'clock classes.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never understood this
With any other sport, nearly every athlete is in tremendous shape. Only in baseball do you have players who end up becoming to far overweight to play their positions effectively. Even the overweight players in football are their size because of the position they play. If a running back put on 20, or 30 pounds, he’d be benched or strapped to a treadmill until he got the weight off. I know it’s a long season, but that’s no excuse to let yourself go.
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been plenty of football and basketball players who have ate their way out of a job.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 3, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol vs. Wells
Excellent point made by Brenley last night, i.e., Marmol’s the type of pitcher that has nasty stuff and makes the HS team, gets a signing bonus, etc., whereas Wells is the guy that gets ignored. Even though Wells throws strikes. I have a son who’s a pitcher, HS age, who is like Wells.
Very frustrating game, another one to go down in infamy.
by thermal54 on Jun 3, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Same old
.500. That’s what this team is and that is what this team will continue to be without changes to the regular lineup in some way, shape or form. Theriot absolutely has to be moved off of SS. The internal options are obviously very limited but you can’t continue to trot him out there and expect him to even play adequate defense at SS. Quite frankly, he’s terrible at SS and anyone that believes otherwise hasn’t been paying attention to the balls clanging off his glove with regularity, the double-clutch throws almost daily and his woeful range to either side. I like Theriot…as a 2B. His adventures at SS have to end for this team, not the one from 2008, to somehow turn into a contender.
As for Soto, he needs a trip to Des Moines I’m afraid. Perhaps that is the wake-up call he needs. Otherwise, they’ve tried everything else and not only isn’t he hitting, but his performance behind the plate has been just plain bad.
Otherwise, this team has to stop with the “it’s a long season, we’ll be fine” routine and stop it NOW. Play baseball and start taking these losses more seriously. The “we could be worse” mantra never fits anyone well.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 3, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Theriot
slow and no arm.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 3, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, he'd be fine @ 2B
but what do you do?
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was Brenly who compared Lou and Robert Cox
He mentioned that both want to win, but when Lou is frustrated it shows and rubs off on the team, whereas Cox was out there cheering on his team, helping them out with Fly Balls, etc.
Is Lou getting too old for this game? (Not physical age, but just mental age)
by GoCubbies34 on Jun 3, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've wondered about
Lou’s mental health this year. To me he’s not the same manager as we saw last year.
by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seems a bit more warn down
but I don’t think he is different. Lou is a terrible in game manager in terms of bullpen and bench, this year he has less to
work with so this get’s exposed more.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 3, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RIGHT SUE,,,,
At times it looks like he is in another world..That has been my observation also,,,,
by cubs north on Jun 3, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells is sharp
Maybe the Cubs should draft catchers in every round and make them pitchers.
This is what Lou wanted, no Wuertz, no Eyre and get every lefthanded bat ( except the ones that don’t get hurt, Abreu, Dunn, and Ibanez) that is standing.
I can only hope Bradley goes on the DL, becasue of the contract situation. Hated the signing from day 1.
And Soto needs a trip to Iowa.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 3, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not a trip to Iowa
since you need a back up catcher anyway. I’d rather we try this tough love thing by having him back up Hill a couple more times a week.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why can't the AAA catcher sit here for two weeks
Soto sitting on the bench does nobody any good. He needs to remember how to hit for power, 5 extra base hits in two months for Soto is pathetic.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the trip to Iowa is to get some hitting in fine
but just to try to wake him up psychologically, a benching here can do that too. I guess I’d rather have Soto and his .200 avg pinch hit than whoever the AAA catcher is.
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he is woken up
He knows he sucks, you could see it last night after Lou pulled him. He needs some easy pitching to feast on for two weeks, let him remember that he can hit for power so that we can have our ROY back.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with you
Cubs should do it now, if they’re gonna do it…we’re already in tread water mode.
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
don’t know who backs up Hill, but don’t really care at this point.
by Spydey on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wellington Castillo?
I hear Paul Bako is looking for a job.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting today
we need to assume that if we’re going to right this ship and win this division, we cant count on Bradley. Any contribution from him will be gladly expected, but me personally, I dont expect much from him anymore.
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
** expected = accepted
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which makes Hendry saying
that Bradley would play 130 games so laughable. There has been no history for Bradley making it through a whole season healthy.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even more laugable were the number of fans who expected 130 games
.300+ average, and 25-30 home runs from a guy who’s rarely if ever put up those numbers
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so annoyed by MB I can't even talk about it.
Believe or Leave ~Cubswynn 9/9/2008
by slcathena on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A blessing in disguise
Reed Johnson, hotter than a pistol and with healthy limbs, takes Bradleys spot.
Personally I would rather have Johnson out there even if Bradley is healthy.
by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umpiring
I was again disturbed at the problems the plate umpire was having:
*Missed the call when the ball hit Escobar’s bat. Jesus, you’re standing right there. WTF??
*Was apparently having difficulty with the heat. It’s hot. In Atlanta. In June. Who knew?
Not the reason the Cubs choked, but still, this is a professional sport.
by thermal54 on Jun 3, 2009 8:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Some of the ball/strike calls were brutal too.
I wonder what pitchf/x thought of it.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody mentioned
Escobar’s fake HBP. The ball hits the bat and he goes on and on like it hit him in the head. I sure wouldn’t liked to see a perfect game ruined by an acting job. BUt I guess the bullpen implosion kept us from talking about that.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Escobar is a good player
But he is a piece of crap. Every issue teams have with the Braves seems to directly involve Escobar. He gets hit by a pitch and makes way too big a deal about it.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Circles provided great comic relief to all of us last night after a tough loss
We need clowns like him to come over and entertain us after tough games
by cubsnlinux on Jun 3, 2009 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope not
He started right off by calling us losers and idiots (he called me an “idiot” at one point). When that wasn’t enough, he called someone (I don’t remember who and the comment has been deleted) a sick f###.
It was quite the intro on this site.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who cares if an anonymous arseclown calls you an idiot.
You need to realize what a joke that guy was, and not take it personally
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not taking it like that.
I hadn’t seen anything like that before, that’s why I posted it. Not that it wasn’t funny in afterthought … I laughed about it later.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, guess what.
That kind of stuff isn’t allowed on this site. Period.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor should it be, but
My tact was to not let it get to me, because that’s what the guy wanted.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you
threw him off his game a little.
by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
I seem to remember a poster telling people to “STFU” the other day (among other insults to me and others this year). Have you done anything about that, Al?
by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you email me, I'll do something about it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure it is,
if the “right” people are doing it
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
define "right"
I’d like to hear your theory on this …
by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've watched Not Bruce Froemming get away with personal attacks left and right
on anyone who doesn’t remotely agree with him, and nothing is done to him. Heine is cussing people out and nothing happens.
There are a group of posters here who appear to be treated differently.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't cussing people out
A couple of F bombs are different than profanity riddled personal attacks
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you told me to STFU
which, i agree, is different than a profanity-laced personal attack. Either way, it is my opinion that every Cubs fan deals with frustration and losses in their own way. Some are very optimistic despite the fact this franchise has struggled for so long, and I envy them for that outlook. I feel that when a franchise spends hundreds of millions of dollars they deserve to be criticized.
I do wish that this whole sunshine pumpers vs. ledge-jumpers classification would end. It is the source of 90% of the negative, personal attacks on the board. The notion that cynics are less of fans is ludicrous, those who don’t like the negativity should just man up and ignore it.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody should be allowed to be a fan their own way
Some people like to focus on the positive things, while some like to overreact to the bad things. Both are fine, heck its better that there are different perspectives around here.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Agree with and apologize
I was irritated and just didn’t appreciate the prediction of failure. But you are entitled to that.
We’ve gotten along just fine on here and again I’m sorry. Didn’t mean to start anything.
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no worries
all on the same team here
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to
vent your negative thoughts why don’t you start a thread for those who want to vent? If others come in the game thread spouting their venom we can send them to your thread. When the game is over you can always delete your thread.
We all know when the team is not playing well. We don’t need 20+ posts telling us what we alrady know. I really can’t stand all the negative stuff being spewed in the game threads. I’m not a negative person by nature and I don’t feel I should have to read all of that since I know the team is not playing well. Some say to skip over those but that’s impossible to do.
by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
you’ll ignore us when we have our “rose colored glasses on”?
I won’t bet on that. Not one penny.
I just posted about being a fan, and how I understand that other people are fans in different ways. The problem is, here we are in our little “rose-colored” world, and along comes someone screaming “CUBS SUCK! CUBS SUCK!” and we’re expected to ignore it?
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh, i have to really disagree with you here
Yes, there are some fans who when a player strikes out will post how that player “sucks,” but in my case and most of the others I think the criticisms are more specific, valid and educated frankly – based on some forethought and baseball knowledge.
I think your characterization of the ledge jumpers are painted with a very broad brush. This is a forum, I doubt it would be very entertaining if every poster were singing the same tune. I’m pretty sure that everyone on this board at some point last season ripped Fukudome a new one for his terrible finish, should we spend our time culling through those posts to see if all the Dome bashers are now singing his praises? I bet the results would be interesting but its hardly productive.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, there are some fans who when a player strikes out will post how that player "sucks," but in my case and most of the others I think the criticisms are more specific, valid and educated frankly – based on some forethought and baseball knowledge.
You must be reading VERY different game threads. Including your own comments. Remember the 2-1 victory over the Dogers? In the second inning, you said “game over”.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You speak rather highly of yourself.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
I think some may have wondered why I kept answering him, but I was mocking him by not sinking to his level.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your sarcastic replies to him were great
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop responding to the trolls
I know you think it’s funny or that it works or whatever, but it doesn’t. The only thing that will make the trolls leave is when they can’t have fun anymore. Every response is fun to them. Nothing it more boring to a troll than when nobody responds.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Also, very well said.
Given the amount of time some of us spend here, we know who’s who and if they are “worthy of a response.” There’s no point in feeling personally attacked by someone if you’re not provoking them.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he was having fun replying to me
He was having fun when people got pissed
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To expound on this
You can choose to let it bother you, or you can not let it get to you. I chose not to last night, and I’m pretty sure he didn’t like that. The next time that happens, I’ll do the same.
I’ve learned that not letting people who are out to provoke get to me works to diffuse it in real life, too.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, don't be surprised when the trolling continues
Plenty of other people were bothered by it. There’s is absolutely no reason to feed them.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plenty of other people responded the way he wanted
That’s what will make it continue. Why don’t you chastise them?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not chastising you
You’re an American. Do what you want.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would you say you were doing, then?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ffs
Providing insight on how to deal with trolls in a manner that works time and time again.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except it doesn't.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because nobody here actually does it
The trolls get more responses than anybody else.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen it happen in other places. It doesn't work.
In order to beat a bully, you have to beat the bully.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"ffs" yeah, that's not chastising
My point, good dr, is that your angst would be better off directed at those who’d responded in kind.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give up
If you think I was chastising you, then I’m sorry you’re so easily offended.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I say I was offended?
You’re still missing the point.
I didn’t resort to personal attacks, profanity-laced tirades or strawman arugments against circles yesterday. Some did do one or more of those. If you read the thread last night, his responses to me pretty much dried up. He got no enjoyment out of baiting me, because I didn’t take the bait.
The ones that did take the bait did give him some of what he wanted — that’s where you should be focusing your energy, instead of telling me not to diffuse his garbage.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, fair enough
I only responded to your post because you were the one who brought it up. It was meant to be a general post for everyone, which is why I was not chastising you.
In any case, it would be nice if Al would designate someone who has Banhammer privileges for game threads so we wouldn’t have to deal with it at all.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
email Al
with your recommendations. Seriously.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, got it
I probably got a bit defensive because it seemed directed at me. At any rate, no problem.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too easy to be negative about last night, so I won't even bother.
Wells looked GREAT. Here’s hoping he’s the real deal and another true ‘great starter’ for the Cubs.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Jun 3, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
But he could be the next Frank Castillo.
by tripdenten on Jun 3, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Castillo's wife was hot . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I decided to read through the 3rd overflow thread while having my coffee
I already knew the Cubs lost. In fact, in the ninth inning, with one on, I somehow felt Gregg was going to give up a home run and the Cubs would eventually lose. They did. Yeah, it was frustrating to watch, and yeah, it made me angry, but I’m happy I stayed out of the thread last night. This isn’t a knock against Al because I love this website. Google Chrome knows I love it, and Speed Dial knows I love it too, but I almost feel as if I can’t even read the threads because of a handful of people that pollute it. The occasional troll doesn’t bother me, but there’s a group of people that continue to troll, flame, and fight with a lot of the regulars. Some of these people that are so incredibly disruptive have also done things outside of here that I would consider unethical. It’s unfortunate that you can’t ignore these people either because they’re spewing their negativity in either fresh posts, or in replies to other people’s posts. No amount of reasoning works either.
What I want to finish with is, many of you know who I’m alluding to. Those of you I am alluding to know who you are. All I ask is to think about what you’re saying. I know that’s a lot to ask because those of you I am referring to feel as if you can say anything on the internet and not take into account how someone else may feel. Like Al and others have said before, be respectful. Would you behave this way with a group of us if we were chilling at Murphy’s before a game, or inside the park during a game? Would you be such a negative presence that you would make everyone else around you resent you? I would imagine the answer to that is no. So please, take this into consideration. We don’t all have to be hugs and kisses with each other, but have some tact and be mindful of others.
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
For a positive spin on things...
where do I get my Randy Wells jersey? :)
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While awesome
I don’t think the future missus would appreciate me dropping $180 on a jersey right now.
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a Randy Wells one anyway
I just got me a Soto and am now wondering if I took the tags off too soon.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buying a jersey is such a process for me
Your comment about taking the tags off reminds me of that. I feel that any player jersey I buy, I’m going to curse that player somehow and they’re going to then perform awful and be traded.
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, from now on
going strictly retired players route… unless the Cubs somehow have a super stud player at some point in my lifetime, like a Pujols.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I apparently hexed Prior after I shelled out $$$ for his jersey 5 years ago.
by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You paid someone $ for a jersy?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really struggling
with what jersey to get next.
Rami
Sori
Lilly
are, I think, my top choices, but…
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't go wrong with Rami
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I'm thinking
still torn, tho.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of those choices
definitely Rami. Even after he’s gone, I have a feeling you won’t feel bad wearing the jersey. Like a Kerry Wood jersey, still see people wearing them all the time.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a Wood
blue jersey.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats understandable
Rami > Ted > Sori would be my order
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would lean
towards Rami as well, unless the Cubs resigned Lilly, then I would get his.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing Al
you are so positive after all of the Cubs daggers through your heart.
It is very admirable on the one hand, yet perplexing (to me) on the other.
And tonight the team faces Derek Lowe. When was the last time they beat him?
by The E-Man on Jun 3, 2009 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was there last night.
Frustrating game thats for sure. Crowd was probably 50/50 cubs/braves fans.
However I was surrounded by braves fans and was sitting next to a smart braves fan which I always enjoy anywhere.
Cubs played great baseball for 7 1/2 innings. Timely hitting, a couple bombs, great double play turned by Blanco early in the game to keep Wells on pace to face the minimum.
Then it blew up.
Even though Wells had only thrown 83 pitches I agreed with the removal. Had just lost the shutout then a wierd play where Lee just drops a throw. Bring in a fresh attitude before anything crazy happens. But why Marmol in this situation, four run lead, one guy on. This seems like Guzman to me. However, Marmol needs to due better obviously, but doesn’t this seem to happen to a lot of late inning guys when they come in to games that are not exactly close.
Top nine the cubs responded with nothing and went 1,2,3 and that hurts but the lead is still there.
My only thought on Gregg’s ninth is it happens. He struck out Anderson on a good breaking pitch that bounced close to the plate from my angle. It looked like Soto might have been a little slow but it also appeared to bounce a little oddly. Still have to get frenchy out who I mentioned to the guy next to me he could delay his demotion to AAA with a big swing, which he ultimately got (damn).
Hielman is what he is. I was glad he gave us at least one more chance to score runs.
Few other thoughts. Why pinch hit for Soto if your going to bunt. Let Soto at least try, I know he hasn’t done it a lot if at all, but why lose a player in an extra inning game to give up an out. Killed me. Also, you must walk Chipper in that situation (you did it earlier). Face McCann with the double play in tact.
Terrible ending to the game but what a promising start to Randy Wells career as a Cub. I was excited about that leaving the game.
Sorry for the Length, but a couple of quick things from the stands last night.
A family of four braves fans sitting a few rows behind me started a, hey you know he is throwing a no-hitter, really a no hitter, (increasing volume) no seriously a no hitter… right before Chipper got his hit. I am not superstitious so I found this quite funny.
But not as funny as the drunk braves fan with the annoying voiced gf cubs fan who called everybody in his phone to tell them he was at a game that went to overtime. Yes he used overtime numerous times, never extra innings. Spectacular.
And last but not least the guy who answered the mid inning trivia question of who did Jeff Francouer hit his first ML HR against by selecting the Red Sox from the three options of Cubs, Astros, and Red Sox. Brilliant (the smart braves fan next to me said as soon as he read the question fourth ML at-bat vs. the Cubs, which I never confirmed, but believed)
I noticed a bunch of these things have been discussed since I started typing but oh well and I completely agree with you Craig (I did the same thing this morning).
Thanks for reading (if you lived threw it).
Its a funny story actually.
by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Overtime?
That guy should hand in his man-card.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of pinch hitting for Soto with Scales
That was a great bunt, wasn’t it? Ugh! No wonder our minor league system is a joke, a guy who’s been there for years can’t even execute a simple sacrifice!!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sacrifice bunt itself is just stupid IMO
you have a better chance to score with a runner on first and no out than you do with a runner on second and one out.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is an old chart
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Sac bunt in that spot = stupid
Especially with Blanco and Hill coming up next. Can we really expect a bh out either one of them IMO…..you only bunt there if you have some good hitters coming up.
Personally, I think this is a pretty bad team right now………..
by plenz on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
the move burned TWO players
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what killed me the most.
But I also agree we shouldn’t have even been bunting in that situation.
Its a funny story actually.
by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was the most painful regular season loss I can remember in recent memory.
First, Randy Wells deserves a victory, and we’ve been denying it to him for weeks. Second, we needed to get a hot start on a long road trip, and everything was clicking through seven innings. Third, our biggest weakness—our bullpen—couldn’t hold a 5 run lead. I was simply ecstatic through 7 innings, then was resorted to looking between my fingers as my hands covered my face the rest of the game. I have no idea how teammates can trust guys like Marmol, Gregg, or Heilman after last night’s crap. What a heartbreaker.
And to top it off—Jeff Franceour hit the dong! Jeff Franceour! Bob Brenly was amazed that Frenchy had only run the count to 3-0 ONCE this season…then Marmol did the same damn thing! Walked him on four straight pitches! This kinda thing is inexcusable.
Finally, as for the game threads…the trolls come out of the woodwork when we are losing. There’s nothing we can do about it. Get a few jabs in and make fun of them, but then just ignore the buggers. It’s been this way for a loooong time on BCB game threads, it’s not going to change. In fact, it only gets worse when we lose a lot. Deal with it.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 8:55 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I remember Dempster imploding in New York a few years ago as worse,
but that’s just because I like beating the Mets. I agree the bullpen is our biggest weakness, and a predictable one. I’m curious whether Lou or Hendry had most input into the makeup of the pen: I think Hendry cedes too much roster responsibility to his manager.
by Inkin on Jun 3, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I felt so bad for Wells.
The guy was awesome last night. I don’t even know what to think of Marmol any more. His on again off again pitching is going to grow tiresome.
I agree something has to be done with Soto. Whatever they decide they need to do it soon.
by sue369 on Jun 3, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
it is a “tricky business”. I heard Todd Hollandsworth discussing the same. The “wrong” call by the manager could have some psychological lasting effects on a young player.
by The E-Man on Jun 3, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Wad
for the local report! These are always fun to read. My friend and I believe that other than Milw., St. Louis, and AZ – Atlanta may have the most Blue fans of any city.
by The E-Man on Jun 3, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its hit or miss in Atlanta
Out of the other 4 games I have been to this year, I have always had at least 1 knowledgeable fan near me.
But then again you also have the guy who bought the ticket to get the free admission to the local exotic dance club after the game.
Both are interesting.
Its a funny story actually.
by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to think about this game,
all I have to say is Randy Wells look very similar to Chris Carpenter. I’m talking strictly looks, not sure if that comparison has been made here.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
by slocs55 on Jun 3, 2009 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I hope he isn't that
Pitching stuff wise that would be an okay thing, but Chris Carpenter is far from a reliable pitcher.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, who wants a pitcher who won 15, 21, and 15 games in three straight years
he’s hard injury problems the last few years, but when he’s healthy, he’s as reliable as they come. Oh, and he’s 3-0, with a 0.62 ERA this season
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You take Harden, Prior, Wood, and Carpenter
I’ll take pitchers who stay healthy.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm, I don't remember mentioning Harden, Wood, or Prior
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just giving more examples of pitchers who get hurt
I don’t understand people’s love of pitchers who are always getting injured.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a love of pitchers who always get hurt
but claiming you don’t want Randy Wells to be anything like Chris Carpenter is sort of ridiculous
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would prefer Randy Wells not become a pitcher
who is paid 15 million and gets hurt every season. If he has the same stuff, fine. But I don’t want to hear the names of injured pitchers thrown around, because they are just that- injured pitchers who are full of empty promises.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
kandybear said the exact same thing last night…
by Craig in South Bend on Jun 3, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think
that Marmol is falling into the every other year thing for relievers because of the overuse the year before? His walk rate is horrible.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 9:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ding ding ding ding ding
Lou’s blankie for the past two years, plus all the winter ball he threw. His arm has been used and abused.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think walking every first batter you face has to do with arm trouble.
I think it has to do with being mentally prepared to pitch when you come into the game. Marmol has been giving us this first-batter-jitters for the whole season now.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
He had stuff breaking a foot. Just not over the plate. Not indicative of arm trouble, but trouble between the ears.
by thermal54 on Jun 3, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
loss of command
IS indicative of arm trouble
it happens ALL THE TIME.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if he's got arm trouble,
I’m sure we’ll hear about it shortly.
If we don’t .. then what will you say?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so is this what its come down to?
he has to get hurt for my thesis that his arm is fatigued and it’s effecting his performance to be accurate????
I thought the completely different pitcher we’re watching on the mound this year would be enough
let me ask you this…. is this the same Marmol you saw last year?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's actually a fairly interesting question
he certainly went through a stretch where he was terrible, and pulled out of it. Isn’t it possible this is just Marmol’s thing? He has a terrible stretch and then pulls out and becomes dominant
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You actually made a good point
Credit where it’s due.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is exactly what people defer to
except this “terrible stretch” is now 1/3 of the season…. at what point do you admit its not just a bad stretch
Marmol has never had this extended a period of a stretch like this since he’s converted to a reliever over 3 years ago
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he's never been good
this season? Is that what you’re saying?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
terrible is a relative term for him
used by the poster above, not my words
he’s been “good” compared to other mediocre relievers, but for Marmol he hasn’t been “the Marmol we are used to” very often
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's had his good days
and his bad days, just like last year. And just like 2006, when he couldn’t find the plate with both hands.
Do you remember that?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2006...
you mean when he was a starter?
as a reliever he’s NEVER had this level of command issues for this extended a period of time
his 2006 relief numbers are identical to his 2007, 2008 BB Rates
2006 BB Rates as reliever: 3.86 BB/9
2007 BB Rates as reliever: 4.54 BB/9
2008 BB Rates as reliever: 4.23 BB/9
2009 BB Rates as reliever: 8.63 BB/9
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a starter
Yes, not as a reliever.
Please, call Jim Hendry and have him give Marmol an MRI, so we can end this foolishness once and for all.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please provide us with the number
I’ll be happy to make that call.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute!
that number didn’t work!
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try 888 instead of 800
:)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damnit im on hold
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That happens a lot
It’s a pretty popular number.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again...
you’re focused on whether he’s hurt or not as being the indicator
i’m focused on his performance not being anywhere close to the same and FATIGUE effecting that performance and perhaps disguising an injury or that fatigue is increasing the chances of an injury down the road
FATIGUE EFFECTING PERFORMANCE IS MY ARGUMENT
not that he’s absolutely 100% hurt right now. There’s a chance he’s not, there’s a chance he is, i dont know. What i do know is this isn’t the same guy we had watched for 2 years prior
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
spot on
this guy (Marmol) is on pace to appear in 84 games this year after appearing in 82 last year. This workload is bound to catch up with him. There have been games he has appeared in that certainly he didn’t need to and last night was on of them.
Hendry and Piniella both to blame on this.
Why exactly is David Patton on the roster if he never pitches except in blowouts??
The journey is the reward!
by wicubfan on Jun 3, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patton is a Rule 5 draft pick.
Barring a trade, the only way to get any value for him is to bury him in the bullpen for the season.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
understood..
but essentially you’ve decided to play with a 24 man roster whilst the rest of the league uses 25..
The journey is the reward!
by wicubfan on Jun 3, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to ensure
Marmol blows out his arm????
smart move by the Rockies
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think
it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out his bread and butter is the white castles so no need to be extra agressive. I’m sure he’s very well known to everyone in baseball by now.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bread? butter? white castles?
I’m getting hungry
by TC Cubby on Jun 3, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then could it be
that he is overtaxed mentally by constantly walking a tightrope every other day for so long?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
control tends to go
when you have an arm injury.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walking the first batter
seems to be perfectly acceptable for all our relievers.
Drive, Monkey Drive!
by VegasCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i made an entire post about this
using statistics to suggest as such and the majority of the community here chooses to believe ANY other excuse they can come up with, whether its: a) Mental; b) alternating years of bad command (which doesn’t statistically hold up but that’s cool); c) just a poor start, and needs more time, etc
people choose their side of the argument and then stay in it, refusing to acknowledge strength in the other side’s argument or bring any “proof” to the table. They just always return to “mental” something that can’t be proved…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox...
Tearing the cover off the ball, doesn’t even get a chance to swing the bat in a 12-inning game?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 9:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With
Bradley’s latest boo boo, Fox needs to get some starts in RF.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Jun 3, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful...
With Reed hitting lately, Lou will probably go with RJ in CF and Dome in RF.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
And yesterday people were discussing the “best way” to give Johnson more at-bats…
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Start Fox at 3rd Base
I like Fontenot but he is too short to play 3rd. Escobar hit a ball by him in the 12th and eventually came around to score. A normal sized 3rd Baseman makes that play at 3rd, it was really a catchable ball, that Ramirez gets too. I would like to see Fox at 3rd for a few days. Lou has put him in there during the 9th inning of a few games (last week) so why can’t he start a game there?
by tripdenten on Jun 3, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
If this trip bears craptastic results, then yes. By all means. But for the next few games in Atlanta and Cincinnati, I wouldn’t experiment with Fox at 3B quite just yet.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because other teams will exploit that weakness.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would
Fontenot can not make routine plays at 3rd base because he is too short, it happens almost every game, and can cost us runs. How is that worse that at least trying Fox there? At least Fox played 3rd in the minors consistently, where as Fontenot did not. I am sorry but you can’t play 3rd base if you’re 5’6.
by tripdenten on Jun 3, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he makes the routine plays fine.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're overvaluing height.
Fontenot may be short, but he’s not too short to field a ground ball or bunt and get the ball to first base. Apparently, Jake Fox can’t even do that much dependably. I’d rather stick with LBR than roll the dice on Jake’s alleged ability to snare the odd liner over his head – and I emphasize alleged.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just threw up a little bit
in my mouth.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to apologize
For my behavior on the boards last night. I was out drinking with some friends before getting on the game threads right before the Cubs had their meltdown.
Not that it should be any sort of an excuse, but I was pretty quick to challenge anyone who was attacking my team, and in doing so, I was using some pretty poor language choices.
Again, I want to say sorry to whomever might have been offended by my language.
I love this community, and should respect it as such.
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeahbut...what were you drinking?
Spotted Cow? Fat Squirrel Brown Nut? PBR? Karkoff?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol, Killians and Bud Light Lime
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an interesting mix . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah no kidding
Don’t know how it ended up happening, or how I was drinking on a Tuesday night
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It happens
I was tempted to hop into the game thread as my roomates and I were drinking and watching the cubs and the cards game, but man when Gregg blew it, I would have been in there ripping him apart, glad I didnt.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by jkobus on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was in rare form last night
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's almost as bad
as drunk calling your ex g/f.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh man that sure is fun
I respect BCB much more than the ex lol
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aw, man...
how’m’I supposed to respect you now? BLL? Ew.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To each his own bro!
I love the stuff. Can’t help it
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoy it also
Especially when it is extremely hot outside. Like GA in the summer.
Its a funny story actually.
by Wad on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. They have the summer state of mind thing correct
My first BLL experience was Alpine Valley last year tailgating for DMB. Re-Fresh-Ing.
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Man
It takes a big man to admit a mistake. And if they didn’t lit beer drinkers on this blog, most of us would be gone.
by CubbieFaninOhio on Jun 3, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Robinson
the catcher the Cubs got from Detroit in the Neifi deal, is hitting around .333 in Iowa. Until now, his rep was a good defensive catcher who couldn’t hit.
Bring him up and send Soto down.
by Clark Addison on Jun 3, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That sounds exactly like Soto
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean "Fats" Soto?
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds Exactly like a ROTY we have on our team
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's time for Soto to sit.
It’s June, we’re two months into the season. Our offense has been a big problem all year.
We have a guy who’s surprisingly hitting very well in Koyie Hill. We can’t afford to continue to trot Geo out there when he’s simply not getting it done.
by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Turning Point
I can’t help but feel as if last night’s game will be looked back on after the season as the turning point of 2009. For all of it’s problems, this team is only 4 games out. How they respond to last night’s lose will, IMHO, determine the fate of the ’09 season.
Here’s to hoping that the Cubs dwell only on the positives from last night and get the first W of the road trip tonight.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jun 3, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
The so-called “turning point” in 2007 was against the Braves, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the Soto talk...
and no mention of Hank White……
Guys isnt it funny that Hank White leaves and Soto starts to suck?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now, here...
… you’re going to get all the people pointing out that Blanco has been bad this year, and that’s true.
But sometimes a player’s value to a team is beyond statistics.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beyond...statistics...does...not...compute...
Yeah, I agree. I said something just like this a few months ago. I think it was too early in Soto’s development to let Hank go.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been saying this all year.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. We need him back. Too late now.
Thanks, Lou and your LH hitting!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, not this, too
We’re already in mourning around here for DeRosa and Wood. Now you’re going to throw a .179-hitting backup catcher into the bonfire, too?
I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again: If this team is thrown into a major tailspin because it no longer has a journeyman infielder, a backup catcher and an oft-injured reliever, than it wasn’t that good in the first place.
Christ on a bike.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
Blanco was/is a decent hitter for a backup, was GREAT defensively behind the plate, called a great game, and was obviously an important mentor to Geo.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially since Soto himself said the Blanco was a big help to his development
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, then
The reason this team is .500 has nothing to do with missing its best hitter for an extended period, nor that many of the other regulars — almost all of whom were on the team last year — are underperforming.
It’s because they don’t have a spunky utility man, a closer who’s always one pitch away from ending his career and a journeyman catcher who can’t bat his weight, who even though he’s good defensively has been more than exceeded by his replacement.
I give up. You people are geniuses.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or you can stop putting words into peoples' mouths
We are simply saying that Soto’s struggles may have something to do with Blanco’s absence, plain and simple. So, relax with the “genius” comments, ok?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking about Hank White...
You desided to bring up Wood and DeRosa….
Who misses who?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh look, another personal attack
how strange.
Did anyone, ANYONE say the reason the team is .500 is because Henry Blanco isn’t here?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That certainly is the implication
Hank White’s not here, so Soto sucks, so maybe if Hank White were here, Soto wouldn’t suck and the team would maybe win a few more games.
Insanity.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is hilarious
you run around this site constantly setting up strawman arguments, then knocking them down, and calling people names.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't you ragequit this site in a huff last week?
Why are you still here?
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to bug you
It’s my mission in life.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I know
how Dan Bernstein feels sometimes on his radio show.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know who that is, but I'm sure you think that was a hugely clever comment
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look it up
I’m not doing your homework for you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't ask you who it was. I don't care who it is
like I said, I’m sure it think it was hugely clever.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not nearly as clever
as “WanderingWanderer” is. A real laff riot.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oooooh burn!
I suppose in grade school making fun of someone’s name might actually serve a purpose, not so much here
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially coming from someone who just borrowed someone else's name
and put “not” in front of it
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lest somebody
think it was really him, genius.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, your contention is that, you were forced to use the name
Bruce Froemming in some way, and as a courtesy to the rest of us, you put a “not” in front of it?
You crack me up
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
1030 in the morning and this stuff already? Com’on guys.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's a better time for you?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeeze. Nevermind.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
it appears that BLou’s cranky grandmother has gotten into everyone’s rice-krispies this morning…
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My dad can beat up your dad.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 3, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you using the third person and referring to yourself as “it”?
by ol Pete on Jun 3, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
usually
I more or less back you up. But you’re missing the point on Henry Blanco’s value.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
another victim of hitting right handed
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a good backup
But does he make that much of a difference? No. If he did, he wouldn’t be a journeyman, now would he?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not a matter of his performance
on the field.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off the field
can be important too, of course. But does every player need a security blanket? And if some do, is it worth keeping them on the roster solely for that reason? I’m not sure it is.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanco
was a good back-up catcher. We didn’t keep him for his bat. IIRC, we ended up paying Bako and Hill about the same amount as Blanco was going to get. It was just one more change that didn’t really have to happen. He was going to play in maybe 60 games, and start maybe 30. But the intangibles he provided may have proved to be more important than his in-game performances.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were rumblings that the Cubs weren't happy with his approach late last year
I’m not sure if they felt that outweighed the mentor aspect or not.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that
and I don’t know. Perhaps Soto told them that he was fine without Blanco. Perhaps they didn’t ask him.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they'd take a player's feelings into consideration
But it wouldn’t be the main criteria
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
and it’s the sort of decision that you only think is bad in hindsight.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't buy that, drew
If that were the case, those intangibles would have kept him in Minnesota or Atlanta or Milwaukee.
Remember, the cemeteries are filled with people who can’t be replaced..
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
because he didn’t find someone like Soto whom he bonded with so well.
It’s all speculation. I don’t deny it.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know
I guess we’ll never know. But it’s hard to believe it would make that much of a difference.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Soto was so depressed
that he hit the fridge and ate all the ice cream.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, plenty of catchers had careers extended because certain pitchers had
“personal” catchers. It’s not like it’s unheard of. Blanco brought a decent bat for a backup, and good defense as well, which is usually all you look for in a backup catcher.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So a catcher has a personal catcher, too?
Maybe Hendry can find Linus’ security blanket someplace and stick it in Soto’s locker.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude, just TRY not being obstinate for five minutes
the point is, you behave as if keeping Blanco, (who contributed to the team on the field as well) in PART because he was mentoring Soto, and that might have helped Soto’s development is COMPLETELY unheard of.
It’s not. It’s been done in other situations.
It’s not like Blanco was 0 for 159 last season, and couldn’t throw to second base on the fly
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hank White
won us at least one game with his bat, IIRC.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Game winning RBI in the 10th (or 11th?) against the Cards. It was the Edmonds 2 HR game.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think it bears mentioning that Hendry's original replacement plan
was Paul Bako, who at the plate is (at best) the equivalent of Blanco, but didn’t have the relationship with Soto that Blanco did.
It seemed entirely to be a move just to make a move. And is one of the many that had me scratching my head about this offseason
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a move
to save money more than anything.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny
but didn’t Blanco and Bako sign for the same amount of money?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Blanco made a couple hundred thousand more
but I also don’t know what Bako’s buyout was
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanco's buyout
was $300,000. He signed with the Padres for 1 year and $750,000. His previous contract with the Cubs was 2 yrs $5.25 million.
Paul Bako carries a $178,279 payroll obligation for the Cubs in 2009.
So, assuming Blanco signed with the Cubs for the same amount he signed with the Padres, the Cubs saved about $270,000. It’s possible the Cubs saved more because we don’t know what the Cubs would have re-signed Blanco for.
(All Contract info from here)
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The market collapsed
Jim Hendry didn’t see it coming (a lot of people didn’t) and got stuck with some questionable deals that would have been just fine the year before (Dempster in particular). I don’t think anybody thought that Hank White would sign for what he did.
Now, I forget the timing of the deals, so I may be wrong about Hank. But Hendry seemed to have a clear plan, and he executed it.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody thought Blanco was going to command a ton of money
he’s a career backup catcher
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
but how much did we end up saving? It’s not like Blanco was going to demand a multi-year contract worth millions a year.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't Bako
a lefty?
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the phrase is a left handed compliment
and the insult is on us.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, so check it out
NBF, look at this response, and then look at your response to me right above it.
Do you see the difference? that’s what people are complaining about. I’ve essentially said the same thing as WW (who I rarely agree with, I think), and your responses are completely different in tone.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest difference, drew
is that you know your stuff.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
You have perspective enough to balance the good and the bad.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
I still think far too much is being made of Blanco’s worth.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hank White's value
wasn’t necessarily as a player, but as Soto’s quasi coach/father-figure/swami.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And many of us said so when he wasn't tendered
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
me too.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Soto would have reported in better shape
If he knew Hank White would be going Red Foreman on him.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Soto should just quit now
since he’ll probably never play with Blanco again. So sad.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you ever get tired of arguing straw men?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but I do get tired
of arguing with wanderers whose brains are filled with straw.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto should quit...
eating so much
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no question Soto misses his mentor
Didn’t Geo hit his only homer while Blanco was in town?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boooooooo
If thats truly the case then we need to set these guys up with a webcam or something. Lots of guys have mentors and that doesnt mean you’re attached at the hip and “can’t go on” without them.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tell that to Greg Maddux
who played most of his career with a “personal” catcher
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny...
How Maddux liked Hank to catch for him too isnt it?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gee, wasn't Maddux Marshall's mentor, too?
And he seems to be just fine. Oh, wait, maybe he wouldn’t have gotten lit up by the Dodgers the other night if Maddux had been here …
Again — Cubs fans sometimes deserve all the ridicule they get.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since 1971
but reading some of this stuff makes me embarrassed to admit it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading some of your stuff...
makes us embarrassed to admit it.
:)
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you are
but who am I?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atta boy...
right on Q!
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It COULD be Q

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep it coming.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but reading writing some of this stuff makes me embarrassed to admit it.
Fixed it for you
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wanderer
Please wander someplace else, thanks.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
different people
work different ways, Bruce. Marshall has a lot more experience than Soto, and the expectations for him are significantly different.
It’s just a theory, anyway.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure about the experience factor
Marshall also doesn’t play every day, either.
There is such a thing as a sophomore slump. But I’m not ready to say Soto would be hitting .300 if Blanco still were around, and I think most baseball people would say the same thing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course we woulnd't say that.
Blanco wouldn’t have prevented Soto’s slump. But he MIGHT have been able to help Soto work OUT of the slump. There’s a lot to be said for having someone be a true mentor for you.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Long distance
It’s the next best thing to being there. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but it’s not all that good, either. Plus, Blanco works for a different team now.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The personal catcher
was not his mentor… it’s two different things. My wife and I make a good team. That doesnt mean I’m reduced to tears and can’t function with out her.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you take that theory...
Why did you marry her? Honestly? I am not being an ass – it is a legit question.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
I don’t understand the question. Are you saying I should do all things with my wife at all times because I married her?
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No no...
I was saying you probably married her because you work well together and you build off of each other – if you didnt, you might be single or married so someone you did work well with.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I wasn’t saying I’d be ok if she died. I meant, we don’t have to be attached at the hip 24/7. As good of a tandem as we are, we are each able to function just as well on our own.
The comparison to Soto and Blanco is a whole different thing. Sure it could have an impact that Blanco is gone, but not to this degree. That’s all.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay fair enough....
i see what you are saying.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's a corolary there
some players are more comfortable with certain players.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the answer
is probably somewhere in between. Soto’s working under a lot of pressure, he’s young, and there are huge expectations.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry for adding gas to the fire
but check this flipping bullcrap. This sorry SOB has done it before. I call shenanigans and a boycott campaign towards Escobar.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
like i said above
This guy finds himself in the middle of a lot of crap.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude needs to start playing soccer
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
You see those guys go down clasping their heads when someone goes near them and accidentally bumps them.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is
that soccer ref’s usually buy this type of bull. Umpires shouldn’t.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
apparently they do
since Escobar took first on that flop
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well do I remember that
From the World Cup in Germany a few years ago.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that was the elite from around the world
You wouldn’t imagine the travesties I witness every weekend watching Mexican soccer…
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we should nominate him for an award
Best acting job.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT
what ballpark was that picture taken in, VT cubs fan?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miller Park
I went to a Cubs game there in June 2007. Z’s first start after he punched Barrett.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice! :)
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was
Cubs scored a lot of early runs, and took the Brewers fans out of the game. Offhand guess, 55% Cubs fans, 45% Brewers fans.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
I had AMAZING seats … out in the front row of the loge section out in left field.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seeing as how you're 4-0 since 2004
I think you need to hop a flight to atlanta! :)
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to
I’m going to do my part on the West Coast in August and September. San Diego and Los Angeles in August, San Francisco in September.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I should update my sig line
I’ve got a lifetime 5-0 Cubs record. The other game was a win in San Diego in 1989.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and tell him
streaks/highlights in your hair are not cool.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When does Lilly pitch?
Somebody should give him a real reason to cry. It would be double special in Atlanta.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He goes tonight.
Lilly vs. Derek Lowe.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells is a good guy.
Courtesy of MLB.com:
Wells tried to see the big picture. “I’m not really worried about that now,” he said of having his first win slip away.
But he had to admit later, “It stinks not getting the win. But stuff happens. That’s baseball.”
Im glad that he actually expresses the fact that he is disappointed, but having this happen again, It’s amazing that he isn’t pissed off. It seems like he is handling the whole thing well. I think he should have just pitched a CG and we would be talking about a win right now.
by adam316 on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Game Great Loss - The Memory Lingers
This was a tough loss and the memory of it is going to linger on. This is the kind of loss that will be, like past losses, in the back of my head during important games. It will be felt in the nervous energy at Wrigley during close games and heard in the screams and boos.
It seems easier to forget the good games and great wins but not these terrible losses.
by mph3 on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's the same in poker
Like they say in Rounders, you can recall with tremendous clarity the exact situations in which you’ve lost big hands, but can hardly remember the details surrounding how you’ve won or won consistently
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011
by heine41 on Jun 3, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al
Enjoyed chatting with you Sunday night. Too bad that first inning ended the game early. The game last night was brutal. Hopefully the Cubs can forget about it and try to beat the Braves tonight.
by LT on Jun 3, 2009 10:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Speechless.
It’s going to take me a while to process this loss. I just cannot believe how many good-to-great starting pitching performances this team has thrown in the garbage this season. I’m trying to draw hope from the strength and consistency of the starting rotation, but a loss like last night worries me that this team is turning into one that finds ways to lose rather than ways to win.
The only meager bright sides I can see – besides the forementioned starting pitching, DLee’s continued success at the plate and a nice play by Dome (who’ll probably see more time in RF with Milton out) – is that the Brewers and Reds lost, too. So the Cubs remain pretty close to both in the standings. As they’re wont to do, however, the Cards won.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This one reminds me of some game in 2007
The Cubs were up 5-1 or 5-0 against the Mets at Shea going into the bottom of the ninth, and then they couldn’t get any outs.
Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 3, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The days of Dumpster trying to close out games
I think that happened right before Lou’s blowup.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at that game. :(
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jun 3, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wuertz...
Walked in the winning run in one of those games.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could live with an '07-esque team...
…that eventually pulls itself together and plays consistently enough to win the division. I’m more worried about an ‘05-esque team that just succumbs to mediocrity. (I’m not yet quite to the point of invoking the horrific specter of 2006.) Again, the bright side is the Cubs still have a strong starting staff. I’m really clinging to that.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the game you're talking about.
Dempster actually left the game with a two-run lead. It was Scott Eyre who gave up two straight hits allowing the Mets to win.
That was a defeat just about as crushing as last night. And yet, the 2007 Cubs made the playoffs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yikes, thanks for the memories!
Incidentally, the Cubs weren’t the only team to blow a late-inning lead yesterday. The D-backs were leading the Dodgers 5-1 going into the bottom of the 8th when the Dodgers scored 5 & won the game 6-5.
by JFCubFan on Jun 3, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slowly but surely on Lee
April was brutal, May was pretty good and June off to a good start too. I hope he keeps it up. Last night, everything seem’d to be going SO well. I was already thinking this could be THE game to turn things around. From one extreme to another.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missed the Carnage
Went to bed as Marmol was warming up and thought “Oh geez, he’s going to walk a couple guys so this will end 5-3.” Wow, I’m just glad I did not stay up for the rest of the sh*t show
Milton Bradley & Kevin Gregg: Didn’t want them then, have less enthusiasm for them now.
MB will be a total waste of 20MIL. DeRo will have better numbers than him at the end of this year alone, will play more games, would not have been a distraction in the media, and would have been a great substitution in the infield throughout this year’s injuries to date and in the outfield rotation.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Jun 3, 2009 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Look out...
“Not Bruce Froemming” is going to hunt you down. Dont ever talk about those guys….he gets upset.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I just get upset
when I read ignorant posts. Lot of them here lately.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then stop posting
You are the source of most of them.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, look who's talking
A source of ignorance if there ever was one.
Have a nice day, you very nice person, you!
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make no sense...
This is a baseball discussion. If we want to talk about our poor offseason we are allowed too. How is that ignorant?
Lets face it, we had a 97 win team dismantled this offseason because we failed to do anything in the playoffs. Ignorance on us for discussion it? Not really. It is a topic of discussion after a poor performance.
I mean lets look at the offseason scorecard for a minute, what has been positive about it?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Dismantled' is too strong a term
And it’s funny that someone’s talking about ignorance in the same sentence after he types in “too” when he means “to.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There ya go...
Opps ya should be you.
Let me correct you – someone’s is technically improper. it should read “someone is”.
Oh and it’s, yea you know it should read “it is”
Clearly all you have is tearing my posts apart gramatically seeing that this is the second time in as many posts, so let me ask you this what do you call this offseason? Gramatically correct or incorrect.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I call it a work in progress
And I see no evidence — none — that things would be any better if the Cubs stood pat.
The problems, for the most part, are related to people who still are here, not the ones who left.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct...
and what have the players we gained this offseason done for us?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far, they've been about like the returnees
So far. That doesn’t mean those moves weren’t worth doing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sooo...
maybe we dumped the players we needed to keep and traded some of the players we have now?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So keep DeRosa and Wood and Blanco
and trade Lee and Soto and Soriano.
Yep, that’s a great idea.
Ai-yi-yi.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you realize you're the only one who came up with that "idea"
right?
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, actually, higgy did
He just admitted that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1/3 i admitted too or to...
however you want me to type it.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about "two"
just for variety?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
I would have traded Lee. No doubt. Soriano and Soto, obviously not. But definitely Lee. I would have traded him and i would have also tried to sign Texeria. Yea i am sure you will make fun of me for that, but We would not have had to sign Bradley, and losing Lee’s salary we might have been able to afford Texeria.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got a full NTC
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To go where, though?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants would have been a legit target
They needed a first basement and money was apparently not an issue considering that outrageous Renteria contract.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what would we have gotten back?
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I was just answering daver’s question. Enough salary relief to keep DeRosa?
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd rather have Mark DeRosa
Than Derrick Lee.
That just about says it all.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, IIRC, that was discussed at length...
…following the horrific end of last season. It’s entirely possible Hendry pursued such an idea and it went nowhere. And just because the Giants spent money on Renteria doesn’t mean they would’ve spent more on DLee. I believe they were pretty high on this Ishikawa guy. And they certainly made no effort to get in on the Manny sweepstakes. PLUS, maybe DLee likes his chances of reaching the postseason with the Cubs better than his chances of doing so with the San Francisco Giants. I don’t recall too many pundits picking the Giants to see October this year.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
Hendry may have explored it, but the first question would have been to Lee, and if the answer is “no”, then that’s it. No deal.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he wasn't going to
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's that pesky
NTC again.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad didnt know that.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I think we have Lee and Soriano for a long time. Now, I don’t think that’s the disaster other people do, but they’re still not going anywhere.
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we have Soriano for a long time...
Lee is off the books after next year.
by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I agree it is not a disaster...
to have those guys.
by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not.
n/t
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this was in response to
Not Bruce Froeming posting he gets upset when reading ignorant posts
it was meant as a knock on his posts…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks buddy!
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 3, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley is totally worthless
and every team in baseball is laughing at nitwit Hendry for signing him for so much when the Cubs were the only team that wanted his brittle, crazy, ass!!!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Jun 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except
that’s not what happened. Bradley asked to come to the Cubs, from what I’ve heard.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome "I was almost laughing"
There are some article of the first-ever Dome-Kenshin meeting on Japanese news media and Dome said:
“I was almost laughing when I saw Kenshin on the mound for the first time, but I hit well all AB and it ended up with a good basehit (off Kenshin’s fork ball). But anyway this game is nothing special, just one game, and I wand to stay concentrated.”
Anyhow that was too bad loss for you folks – as I said in live thread the best story for me is Dome get winning RBI and Kenshin don’t lose… but it didn’t happen in anyway…
Next game will be televised again because my satellite channel bought contract and started MLB live coverage from this month (thru 2015). I am very happy.
by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Dome has looked real good
I wonder what adjustments he made because he looks mostly the same but is hitting much better.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome was having fun last night
He got Randy Wells’ first hit ball and got to have some fun with him.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet! Thanks dragon for the update!!
Recommending you!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 3, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good job, dragons
You have become one of the better posters on this site.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 3, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's some additional quotes
“I got one basehit off Kenshin-san and also off LHP completely – that was pretty harvestful. Kenshin-san’s curve ball was a bit fast comparing when he was with Dragons, unlikely…”
Kenshin is elder than Dome so he has to add “-san” to call to express his respect.
Maybe they had dinner together last night or maybe tonight, are definitely going to order the best Japanese food in Atlanta… and elder person has to pay all of it ;-)
by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that -san thing is very interesting
So when Jon Miller is calling Dome Fukudome-san next time we are on Sunday Night baseball, somebody should tell him that he is wrong because Miller is older than Dome.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miller just thinks he's being clever
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he has proven himself
a master of all languages.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By his over emphasis...
Of all latin players accents in their names.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 3, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God that drives me nuts.
Neifi “PEAR-ez”
by kanderber on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same here.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda like how
he pronounces “Aramis”? Man does that just grate. Part of me was slightly happy that Ramirez couldn’t play Sunday night because then I didn’t have to listen to Miller pronounce his name all night.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
by gwood on Jun 3, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is
Miller is a good play by play guy IMO, I just wish he didn’t pretend to be Latin and Asain when a player of a different backround comes to bat.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
Miller and Morgan did play by play for WBC and Japan’s first baseman was Michihiro Ogasawara, and it was too hard for them to pronounce, so they started call his nickname “Guts” throughout the program. That was too funny.
by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
-san
That’s not used just used to express respect for elder person but also general politeness for other person… but it is strange to use it for younger person if they are close friend. So if Kenshin call Dome as “Fukudome-san” is somewhat strange or maybe meaningful…
by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do Japanese baseball announcers often use it?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jun 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In sporting media
they never use “-san” for all players and athlete at all.
by dragonsfanatic on Jun 3, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, Al?
“Dunn would have made Joey Gathright useful, as Gathright could have played defensive replacement virtually every day for the last couple of innings.”
A bonus to having Dunn would be that you would have to take him out for a crappier player every game for a couple of innings?
In that case, the bonus to having Milton Bradley is he gets Reed Johnson more at bats! The bonus to having Rich Harden is Randy Wells gets more starts!
You have opened my eyes to a whole new way of thinking about baseball, and for that, sir, my hat is off to you.
by Old Style & Ivy on Jun 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anything
would have made Joey Gathright useful. :D
"I don’t really play baseball, I feel it." -- Milton Bradley
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A rule change allowing cars on the basepaths would have
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 3, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best centerfielder on the team. :-)
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if
They changed the rules so you could DH for your center fielder.
by Old Style & Ivy on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's an awful hitter.
But there are uses for players who are good at defense.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
Just not for Joey Gathright in particular.
by Old Style & Ivy on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright's UZR numbers in centerfield are pretty impressive.
He’s proved his ability to play the position at the major league level. That’s all I’m saying.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shagging batting practice?
Working on the grounds crew?
I’d like to see Gathright race that guy at Wrigley who fetches the foul balls behind home plate.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if he was a better CF than Pie.
But you can’t really be the best at anything if your manager won’t let you play.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie had a cannon
I still with they hadn’t paid double Pie’s salary to get 1/2 the player in Gathright.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh.
Twist my words, why don’t you?
Gathright’s only use was as a defensive replacement, something Lou refused to do with him. If Adam Dunn gets four AB in the first seven innings and you put Gathright in for defense, you’ve used both of them to their best, haven’t you?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's exactly what I'm saying, too.
If Dome was playing center, you move him over to right field to replace Dunn and put a defensive specialist like Gathright in center. Then you win the game.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if only
it were that easy… :D
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess we'll never know.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a .500 type ballclub playing .500 baseball
It really is no more complicated than that I have concluded. This is a poorly constructed roster with a significantly bloated payroll situation that is what it is.
The lineup? Derrek Lee is what he is at this stage. Ditto Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot. Alfonso Soriano remains what he is too (sure, he’ll go on a couple of hot streaks at some point). Geovany Soto sucks and will actually take place next to Rick Wilkins in the Cubs history books. Fair enough to say that this team is in need of a starting catcher. Kosuke is performing to the best of his abilities. The only player who should be doing better and will do better is Milton Bradley. The remainder of the lineup options are a mix of bench players and journeyman doing about what it is they can do. Aramis Ramirez? I’m not expecting him to be much of a factor for the rest of this season. In fact it’s to the point where he should just go under the knife and get fully ready for next season.
Bullpen? Terrible. I keep reading that Carlos Marmol and Angel Guzman are a dynamic duo, but that is over-reaching on a grand scale. Aaron Heilman sucks and is proving weekly why the Mets couldn’t wait to dispose of him. Kevin Gregg is what he is. Sean Marshall hopefully can be a savior of sorts.
Rotation? Obviously the strength. But the offensive issues of this club combined with a woeful bullpen can’t be overcome to the degree to be anything more than a .500 type club.
Manager? Lou Piniella looks like he wishes he was back home in Temple Terrace Florida working as special advisor to the Steinbrenner boys. There is little doubt in my mind he will be gone after 2009.
Future? A new owner financing $450 million to buy the Cubs combined with a horrendous payroll situation and a largely barren farm system makes me hope for an extreme makeover on the part of Ricketts….get rid of Kenney, Hendry, Piniella, Fleita, Wilkens and start over with a brand new baseball staff.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow...
he’s soured on sweet lou
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...rather Sweet Lou doesn't want to be here
I’m not blaming Sweet Lou for this current mess. Fact is he is doing about the best he can with the roster that has been assembled. But I read his eyes and expressions and see a person who doesn’t want to be here anymore. Lou looks like he is quitting in place similar to what he did in Tampa Bay a few years ago.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the roster assembled
is largely based on his CRY FOR LH hitting
for as much credit as Lou deserves for sorting through last season’s roster and making it extremely useful, he deserves blame for requesting a new one
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The dilemma of this club can not be neatly blamed on the insistence of going left-handed
That is way too big of an over-simplification. Cubs aren’t the mess that they are because they went all left-handed. Even if the sorely missed Mark DeRosa was still here we would be a marginally better club than we are right now.
Somebody honestly challenge me on the point made above that this is a .500 type ballclub playing .500 baseball.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a .500 ballclub
when you remove Aramis Ramirez, the team’s best hitter
but to go from 97 wins to say 81 wins is a HUGE jump not JUST because of the Aramis injury
it happens when you downgrade the roster significantly in the offseason. Our strength last year was a tremendous bench and great depth that allowed flexibility.
When you remove DeRosa, you removed all that flexibility and slid everyone up a spot in the totem pole. Then you try to replace those extra roster spots with below average players that tie up more salary (see Miles, Aaron) and you’re downgrading at multiple entry points on the roster
Same thing happened in the pen with the removal of Wood (who I agree shouldn’t have been signed for the contract he was given in CLE), and guys like Scott Eyre (who was removed in season last year and is the LOOGY we’ve all been looking for since)
Lou’s over-tinkering has had an impact on downgrading the roster, just like it had an impact on originally upgrading the roster
A worse roster with worse injury luck this year leaves us with a far worse team
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me challenge you on points
Would you agree that the 2008 Cubs were blessed with an inordinate amount of players who had very good production years? And that the 2008 were further blessed with relative few injuries?
The bench you speak of?
- Mike Fontenot was selectively and smartly used to maximum benefit in 08. Asking him to play everyday over-exposes the ability of a 29 year old former journeyman.
- Koyie Hill is an improvement over Henry Blanco
- Reed Johnson is still here, but not having the career type year he had last year.
- Jim Edmonds isn’t here, and lost in the argument is the fact that Edmonds and Johnson combined for nearly 100 RBIs in centerfield last year.
===
Losing Mark DeRosa utterly sucked. But losing DeRosa and Scott Eyre and blaming everything on the “going left-handed thing” is not the primary causal affect for the wheels falling off.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me challenge YOU on some points
Fontenot- can’t challenge you on that one, he isn’t a starting player on any of the other teams hoping to compete
Hill- the jury is still very much out on whether he’s actually better than Blanco. He’s been pretty good early on, but there’s no proof he’s an actual step up over the course of a full season.
Johnson- Reed didn’t have a career season last year, in fact, it was pretty much his usual type season save 2007.
Jim Edmonds isn’t here because he’s 205 years old. He’s no where else either.
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
agree on the good luck
agree the team was used appropriately last year (until the playoffs when all of the sudden Pineilla stopped managing the exact way he had all season)
Koyie Hill vs. Blanco is a minimal impact
Fontenot is being over-exposed, which is the reason he’s struggling to replicate even 80% of last year’s production. This is on Lou for requesting we get so LH
Reed Johnson is being used the same way he was last year and guess what… he’s performing even BETTER
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsre02.shtml
Here were the moves made to get LH:
Derosa becomes Fontenot (clear downgrade, both offensively and flexibility wise)
Fontenot becomes Miles (MASSIVE Drop)
Hill becomes Blanco (negligible impact)
DeRosa/Edmonds becomes Bradley (was supposed to maintain, can’t have an upgrade over the season posted last year, but has been a massive downgrade)
Throw in the crappy mismanagement of the bullpen:
sending away Chad Gaudin to keep David Patton
replacing Kerry Wood with Kevin Gregg (downgrade)
replacing Michael Wuertz with Aaron Heilman (negligible impact)
replacing Scott Eyre with Neal Cotts/Jason Waddel (huge downgrade)
all those are moves in part made at the request or suggestion of Lou Pineilla either directly through his quotes in the media or through his usage patterns of refusing to use guys
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
I generally agree on most points. But it still isn’t primary causal reason for why this is a .500 type ballclub playing to that actual level. I don’t think we are over-achieving or under-achieving to any degree, but merely playing to capability for the most part.
Outside of Soriano and Bradley, where is all the wondrous offensive production improvement going to come from? Soto? No. Soto is either validating my suspicion that he was a juicer in 2007-08 or has reverted back to previous non-prospect form. His swing is VERY LONG and VERY TIRED looking. And he is shockingly out of shape despite actually conducting rigorous physical activity on a daily basis as part of his job description. Fontenot isn’t going to get better (lets be frank with ourselves on that one).
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto's significantly overweight
it has slowed his bat
in conjunction with a shoulder injury he hasn’t really had time to rest, he’s a shell of his 2008 self
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 3, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's doing the best he can
and yet, he’s given up?
Okaaaaay. If anyone else said “Lou looks like he’s given up”, you’d be screaming at them for being a girl or something.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs are the disappointment they are because of the strategic and tactical decision-making of the manager in the dugout
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meant to say "NOT because..."
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Partly Piniella's fault, partly Hendry's fault, partly just poor play...
Here are Piniella’s mistakes:
- He overreacted to the playoffs last year, wanting to get more LH. This is why Fontenot became an everyday player and we got Miles/Scales instead of DeRosa.
- He misused and then gave up too quickly on Scott Eyre, who has been fantastic as a LOOGY since leaving the Cubs. Now, we have Cotts/Waddell.
- He gave up too quickly on Chad Gaudin, sticking with “the Rule 5 kid” instead.
Here are Hendry’s mistakes:
- He thought Kevin Gregg was a good acquisition as a closer
- He thought Aaron Miles was a good acquisition as a 2 year, $4+ million utility guy
- He gambled on Bradley (though the jury is still out, it’s been rough going with the injuries so far)
- He probably overrated Dempster (again, the jury is still out, but it hasn’t looked like a good move so far based on 2009 and pre-2008)
- He overpaid a lot of guys, resulting in a bloated payroll and limited flexibility
And of course, players like Marmol, Soto, Fontenot, and Bradley haven’t produced like they expected them to perform. I’m not putting Lee in that category, as he’s rebounded with a very strong May and good start to June. And the injury to Ramirez has made things worse.
by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with just about all of this...
…except giving up Gaudin in favor of Patton. That’s likely a wash in the here and now – Chad isn’t a very good pitcher and he probably would’ve wound up on Lou’s sh*tlist if he wasn’t there already.
In other words, if Patton wasn’t buried in the pen right now, Gaudin would be. I’d rather have Patton’s upside – and I’m starting to think that the only way to get anything from the Rule 5 process is to do exactly what the Cubs are doing. Yeah, the Good General has been batted around like a toy mouse at a cat convention, but he’s also K’d 14 batters in 15.1 innings of work. So there’s some hope there.
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by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rule 5 process shouldn't be used by contenders...
That’s my beef. You’re probably right about Gaudin remaining in the doghouse. BUT, you can just as easily replace Gaudin’s name with Wuertz, who Piniella did use to some degree. We should have re-signed Wuertz (who was solid for us for years). I’d arguably rather have Wuertz (and Ceda in the minors) than Gregg. Heck – I’d rather have Wuertz and Ceda in the majors than Gregg and Patton.
by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that makes sense.
Sometimes it seems like Hendry has diluted his “win now” mentality with an almost irrational need to restock the farm system with pitching.
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by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, that's an interesting thought.
what if he’s been told “go into rebuilding mode without looking like you’re going into rebuilding mode”?
A lot of the decisions he’s made look a little like that…
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of decisions contradict that idea though...
As we traded away a rebuilding player in the Gregg deal. And we took on more payroll with Bradley and Dempster. And we traded away “prospects” in Cedeno and Pie for Heilman.
I don’t think, on aggregate, the offseason equates to any effort to rebuild. If Hendry was looking to secretly rebuild under the auspices of competitiveness, he failed in that regard.
by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say
he was doing it well. :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cedeno was NOT a prospect
Not at the end of last season, anyway.
by elgato on Jun 3, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wells has only given up 6 earned runs in 5 starts
And he doesn’t even have a win to show for it.
Pathetic.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup
I think we all agree on that. Will only make that first one all the sweeter. He’ll probably give up 8 runs the next time out but gets the win because the Cubs scored 13. That’s how funny baseball is.
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or...
He’ll break some other team’s Gatorade machine in the visiting dugout, when he loses another gem. :)
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he would throw a perfect game every time he took the mound
he wouldn’t have that problem, would he? clearly this problem can be traced back to wells…
by murphymj on Jun 3, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really reminds me of...
Getting Harden last year. Guy went like 3 or 4 starts with 10 Ks in each and didn’t get a win for the longest time…
by hmlee on Jun 3, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Going left-handed" and blaming Lou for strategic and tactical blunders isn't the reason we are a .500 type balllclub playing .500 baseball
Everyone would agree dumping DeRosa was STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. But I’ll pin that more on Hendry’s bizarre 12-step offseason improvement plan that seemed to be a series of domino moves made to have the ammunition to acquire Peavy. But lets get past DeRosa for sake of argument.
Getting left-handed? Gone are left-handed hitters Jim Edmonds and Felix Pie. In there place (sorta) is swith-hitting Milton Bradley who hasn’t done scratch yet. Is the removal of Edmond and Pie for Bradley REALLY the reason for our downfall? I don’t think so despite the fact that Edmonds was well productive in 2008.
Getting left-handed? Micah Hoffpauir replaced the role of Daryl Ward. So far at least Hoffpauir has done more than Ward ever did last season.
So what else am I missing here in the argument? When the Cubs have everybody healthy there are lefties Fontenot, Kosuke, Bradley (a switch-hitter) in the lineup. How is that overly left-handed?!? The bench includes the AWFUL switch-hitting Aaron Miles (who I pin way more on Hendry for being here) and Hoffpauir as the lefties. How is that overly lefty?!?!
Lou? You mean to tell me his alleged strategic and tactical blunders have cost this team a half-dozen plus games!?!? Please.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
by BLou on Jun 3, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I also thought
DeRo wasn’t moved to make room for Bradley’s money, but one of about a half dozen to make room/acquire to get Peavy.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to argue your point
But we also had to have a left handed hitting back up catcher too.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa was removed for Fontenot...
you’ve conveniently overlooked that one, despite your consistent bashing of Fontenot.
The biggest reason they let DeRosa go was so that they could go with Bradley AND Fontenot, and get more LH. And they added Miles because he can also bat LH.
Convenient how you try to ignore the obvious when it doesn’t suit your argument.
by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm officially done with Kevin Gregg as our closer.
D.O.N.E. (in the words of Al). I’m also a pretty positive person when it comes to the Cubs, but Gregg just isn’t cutting it. I’m up for trying anything else, the first of which is giving Guzman the shot at closer. Clearly that isn’t the perfect solution, but at this point ANYONE would be just as good (if not better) than Gregg.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jun 3, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I vote for letting Randy Wells close games on the days he doesn't start.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 3, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should've been allowed to close yesterday's game too.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Jun 3, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe Ted Lilly.
Yeah, I said it.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lilly should throw every inning of this season
note: to those of you who like to argue with everyone on this site, this is clearly not said in a serious tone
by murphymj on Jun 3, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SCREW YOU MAN THAT IDEA IS CLEARLY REDIC!
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jun 3, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that idea
should be DFA’d, along with the Gatorade Dispenser.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technical balk
Take your place in between the Gatorade machine and Larry.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make Harden the closer.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It worked for Wood
It would be a horrible waste of Harden’s talent, but I guess his talent doesn’t do much good in the dugout, eh?
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This idea has been tossed around quite a bit of late.
I believe one big strike against it is Harden needs an inordinate amount of time to recover from pitching. Oh, and the whole “putting a guy with elite stuff in the bullpen is a waste of his talent” thing.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the bullpen is for guys who can only throw...
fastball/slider. Let them come in, throw their only two pitches for an inning, then get out. That’s why Marmol is perfect for the bullpen.
I think you’re right about Harden’s recovery time. The bullpen isn’t likely to prevent him from breaking down – in fact, it might increase the risk.
by SouthernCub on Jun 3, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is Harden's other pitch?
I thought he threw a fastball and a change.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 3, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's rumored to throw a slurve, isn't he?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's far more valuable
as a starting pitcher than he would be as the closer. And I’d bet he can’t pitch on consecutive nights.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with your first premise
but I think he could handle pitching on consecutive days if it’s only for an inning. Even Wood’s fragile arm was able to handle that. So was Smoltz’s
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
but Woody spent time as a reliever first.
I just don’t think it’s worth it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't neccesarily think it is either
I think Harden can still make this one of the best rotation in the bigs, if they can all get healthy at the same time at some point this season. But at some point in his career, Harden might find himself better suited as a closer.
It would have to be going into the season as a closer though, not switching mid-stream
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm saying is...
If you can’t get the innings you’re supposed to get out him as a starter, because of health issues, then get your best stuff in another area that can help your team just as much.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if that's the case
I’d rather turn him into a long reliever. If he can’t go every five days, have him ready to go three or four innings when Demp or Z or Lilly struggle early.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, we'll still lose the game, when our closer fails to close. LOL.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think
Gregg can turn it around.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the conference series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Face it. He's been pretty awful.
It’s not even hard luck… he’s walking guys and giving up HRs
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 3, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
Right now, he’s pitching more like Howry and less like Woody.
But I think it’s possible.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could agree with you Drew
but his season so far just seems to be a continuation of the kind of pitching that lost him the closer’s role in Florida
by WanderingWanderer on Jun 3, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very disappointed in you guys.
A lot of you kept feeding the trolls. Comon now!
by xene on Jun 3, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
are you talking to us or the Cubs?
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we all agree
That this team is just not that good right now and may never live up to their expectations…
by Cubz24 on Jun 3, 2009 12:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's weird how these expectations
even got that high to begin with. Most didnt like the offseason moves and after last year’s post season, should we really be this surprised to be at .500?
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by tony412 on Jun 3, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or that the team is just not getting the breaks and/or playing well right now but...
may still end up living up to their (pre-season) expectations
by doofus cubs guy on Jun 3, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am still hopeful
But looking at realty im just not too sure about this team…
by Cubz24 on Jun 3, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree
that the team may not live up to expectations. But that’s because they’re playing below their level.
I’m rooting for my team in spite of the problems. I recognize the team is struggling. I root for them anyway.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 3, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can agree with the former if it's applied to last night.
And we can agree we’re worried about the latter, yes.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 3, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 games behind
phillies in 2008 after 50 games
by doofus cubs guy on Jun 3, 2009 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
IF
Fontenot ar 3rd
Theriot at ss
Blanco at 2B
lee at 1B
This could be overall the worst infield ever
by Cubz24 on Jun 3, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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