What would you do to shake up the team?
by cubzfan on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 PM CDT
Email
Print
Good bounceback by the team and bullpen today. I don't mean to start another discussion about whether the Cubs need to make major changes or not. But, ASSUMING you wanted to give this team a kick in the pants, what would you try?
As Lou, a dirt-flinging tirade at the ump?
Benching a veteran in a slump?
Shaking up the bullpen (again)?
Putting a starter NOT named Marshall or Wells in the pen?
As GM, make a major trade, even if it costs top prospects?
White flag trade, hoping the rest of the guys will react with greater effort?
Keep in mind there are some things you can't do:
You can't put a player on the DL who doesn't agree he's hurt. He can appeal through the union.
You can't send a player down who's out of options.
You can't kill a man simply with your mind. (You're not Ted Lilly.)
Here's a poll, or add your own ideas below.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
79 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Trade
Zambrano and Soriano, who are overpaid just not as good as they need to be.
And trade Lee, while he still has some value in him.
You won’t be contending for a few years, but do you really think this year’s team has what it takes?
No, I don't
but, unfortunately, I also don’t have a lot of faith in the current Cubs’ braintrust’s ability to evaluate and develop any talent we might get in return.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 3, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Tell you what
If you find a way to trade those three and get appropriate value, you get to be GM of the century. Those three guys are all slumping this year, so getting fair value will be borderline impossible. They also have massive contracts, meaning you’ll have to eat so much salary to make it happen, and if you’re gonna eat that much salary, there’s little point in moving them. to make things harder, they all have no-trade clauses.
And you’re gonna have to justify those trades to the rest of the roster, who will see that you’re basically giving up on them. The remaining players will hate you for it. Say what you want about Jim Hendry, but he does a great job at forming good relationships with the players and coaches, and since baseball is a business, that’s a very useful skill.
hoo ray
lets disregard that they have a NTC each and will not be traded.
next idea?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I would actually kick the team in the pants.
Some people say violence isn’t the answer. They’re obviously not asking the right questions.
Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.
But how would you get...
…the entire team to wear one pair of pants?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
If this were my team....
I am distinctly pessimistic on this team. Fact is the window of opportunity to win a World Series has clearly come and gone. The payroll is a bloated mess and the farm system remains a joke.
1. Fire Kenney, Hendry, Wilkens and Fleita
2. Let Piniella walk away at the end of the season to become special advisor to the Yankees
3. Begin an extreme makeover — meaning put Zambrano, Ramirez and whoever else on the block this winter
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
But what would you do right now?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
since the sox just DFA Wilso Betemit
I would sign him, move Fontenot back to 2nd base, send down Scales. Betemit can play 3rd and give you a better powerful bat. Not like he’s better than Ramirez, i just think thats a better option for the Cubs right now.
Sox are greasing the skids for the arrival of Gordon Beckham
Wilson Betemit? Yeah, I would definitely investigate if I am Jim Hendry. He’s got to be better than Bobby Scales, Ryan Freel, Aaron Miles. And Mike FOntenot playing 3rd base.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings ...
Blow it up and start all over again?
It seems like I’ve been through that way too many times in my life as a Cubs fan but, at the same time, I can’t deny the logic of such a move.
Even if we somehow get to the playoffs, I can’t imagine that this team, as currently constituted, is going to be able to make any noise. And, if it’s true that Hendry’s hands are tied as far as making
any sigificant moves, well then, that’s that.
I’m more concerned though with the people Rickett’s will bring in to rebuild the Cubs. Does he go after an established name like a Pat Gillick or a Billy Beane or does he try to find the next Theo Epstein? So much of this rests on bringing in the right people to clean up the mess- What we really need isthe second coming of Dallas Green.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 3, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
Betemit’s been bad, very bad at defense and hasn’t hit either. There is always the chance that Betemit would improve from playing regularly, but I won’t count on it.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I watched him try and play third a couple times this year
No thank you
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
his UZR Rating
is similar to Fontenot’s
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 4, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Betemit's SUCK rating is higher, much, much higher.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
terrific addition
to the conversation….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 4, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's what I'd do
Fire Lou Piniellia, and get a real manager. Not one that likes to swear at players in spanish. Fire Jim Hendry, the guy throws money at problems like he’s Ben Bernanke and Crane Kenny’s punk ass. And anyone who has had a hand in developing any off the Cubs minor league players over the last 10 years. (i know your name but i can’t even google it right).
Get a regime in here who can develop minor league players and teach them how to bunt a runner over when a man get’s on. That is all.
You want the Cubs to start teaching fundamentals and small ball?
You ask a lot, my friend.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 3, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Introduce Geo to his new best friend
Jenny Craig
(sorry Sue)
I would do something completely unheard of which is...
Stand pat. I would not make a single trade unless another GM came knocking at my door with an offer too good to pass up. A month from now, I would reevaluate the team and see if it’s worth it to try and acquire players for a postseason push. I would make some internal moves: move Marshall to the pen when Harden comes back, option down Waddell, bring up Jeff Stevens, DFA Heilman, try to resolve the Patton situation and go down to 11 pitchers as soon as Freel/Miles is ready.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 4, 2009 2:59 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
A voice of reason.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 4, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
that's pretty much
what I think we should do.
This team is playing below it’s level. Give them some time without trades or DFAs to bring it up.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Heilman's run his course though
He’s been god awful this year, and he was god awful last year. Nuff said. Bring Stevens up and have him compete with Ascanio for Heilman’s job.
Bring Stevens up and...
… send who down? Patton? Ascanio? You’re not just going to eat Heilman’s contract, are you?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yep... recced..
I think the first step to a solution is identifying the correct problem. Suggesting wholesale replacement of personnel is to suggest that the problem is that several players and managers are SIMULTANEOUSLY performing worse than they ever have. Unlikely.
I think the problem is that we have quite a few key hitters hurt or playing hurt (ARAM, DLEE, MB, Soriano) or out of shape (Soto), and bullpen management. We have a great opportunity to get these guys healthy (especially with quality backups at 1st and outfield). We need to win in October, not June, and if we’re not going to be ready to win in October, then I don’t really care what happens until then anyway.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 4, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Fire Lou
And let Tram have at it.
I have nothing funny or creative to write.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jun 4, 2009 6:47 AM CDT reply actions
Because Trammell did so well with the Tigers, right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
he also had a team in Detroit
that would rival the early 90’s Cubs. Not saying Trammell is the second coming, but lets take that into consideration
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Only that first year.
And I’ll give Trammell credit for improving them his 2nd year. After that, not so much.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't see to much happening this year.
You may have a minor trade, a release, or a couple other callups. I think high 80’s, low 90’s will win this division, and the Cubs will hang around because of there starting pitching so no fire sale changes until the end of the year.
I would make sure Bradleys contract lasts only two years, Cubs can ill afford to have that 3rd year kick in, I hope he goes on the DL at least 4 times in the next two years so his incentives don’t kick in.
I would try to find a shortstop in the offseason.
I would not sign Kevin Gregg, and have Marmol or Guzman close, or find a closer in the offseason that is not named Kevin Gregg.
I would try to trade Soriano ( which will never happen) even though his contract is insane.
Hopefully the Cub sale would go through, Let Lou go, FIre Hendry, and Let Trammell run the team.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
I read "Putting a starter NOT named Marshall or Wells in the pen"...
As PUNCHING a starter… and while I realize he’s not a starter, my immediate reaction was “yes, I’d like to punch Kevin Gregg!”
The Cubs window is closing
They need to win now. I’d fire Piniella immediately. I don’t completely blame him but maybe a fresh approach might help the team like it did the Marlins in 2003.
WOW
IMHO none of these ideas seem rational, but you are correct they are “shock and awe”
Instead of a shake up, I think we need to settle the ship. We tried a shake up (look at the roster moves this off season) and the shake up is why we are where we are.
I would love to see MB ask to go to AAA and get some good swings in for a week or so before returning to the field, and get some confidence back in his hitting. The man can hit, we know this, and for whatever reason he just seems to be off. That alone would be a huge shake up (for opposing teams) when he returns to the line up hitting as expected.
Lee and Hoff are splitting time well (not an even split) and it seems to be working with Lee coming around, and Hoff not falling off the map. Lou is handling this well, and I would like to see maybe a little more Hoff, but again no complaints with how the current results (past few weeks) have panned out for 1B production.
Gregg and Marmol both should not close, but if i have to take one of them, call me crazy, but Gregg it is. Personally, the way things have been as of late, bring on Guzman as the closer.
3B until Rami is back, well anyone who is right handed might be fielding grounders there to see who might be able to field there and can hit. Nothing against Font, he has done well taking it over, but the grounders over his head are turning outs into singles and doubles. Need someone taller with a bat. MIght even call everyone available about a tryout.
Soto would platoon for a while with Hill, (either 50/50 or possible 60/40 advantage Hill) until his bat awakens.
Zambrano, well, like it or not he is our version of “Manny being Manny” (minus the fertility drugs). Is that good or bad, well I will take his numbers over the past few years as worth the garbage it comes with. Does he need to control himself and act more professional, sure, but I am not in the clubhouse and truly do not know all the behind the scenes so I will leave that to the team to decide. None of us can discredit his numbers over the past few seasons, and they have been posted here time and time again. Smack him upside the head and tell him to atleast pretend to care when off the field and move forward.
Lou seems to be stuck in Dusty-ville. Only reason we know he is alive is when he is lifting his head up (looks like he fell asleep in class, and just got jolted awake). Not sure why he seems out of it (has the game passed him by, is it time for him to retire, has the team given up, has he given up, etc…..). The coaching staff is not that bad, but they are also working with spare parts so they look worse than they are due to this. I would not go firing the soaching staff, its not Perry’s fault he is working with Scales, Freel, Miles, Blanco, and so on. I am sure he didnt ask for that when he started this season.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I agree with you on Lou
He just doesn’t seem to be excited and with it right now. That’s why I’ve decided over the past week that he needs to go now. I don’t know if that will help this year but I don’t like what I’m seeing. Not sure who to bring in but maybe some new invigorated blood might help. It did help Florida in 2003.
The comparison of Lou to Dusty is disturbing but I definitely see where you're coming from
He seems oddly disengaged this year-as if his energy has been sapped and he’s just waiting to move on.
I’m not sure though that replacing him would have much of an effect. This is an aging, veteran team and I don’t see them suddenly “waking up” because there’s a new guy at the helm.
Of course this is all pretty much moot anyway-if it took Hendry two extra years to fire Dusty, there is no way he’d whack Lou.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 4, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
it is scary
and I hated typing that
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
There were those...
… who, when Piniella was being discussed as a possible replacement for Dusty in 2006, said of him that he’d be similar to Dusty in lineups, strategy, etc., only all his players would hate him.
That’s proving eerily accurate.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
really?
Lou Piniella is leaving his young pitchers in for 120+ pitches?
Lou Piniella is telling his player to not try to walk?
there’s some VEERRY interesting things being said around here…
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
just because you fail to recognize it
doesn’t mean he isn’t doing it….
some prize arm named Marmol is having VASTLY different results this year
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 4, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
even if he's doing that with marmol
and I continue to believe that this is debateable, he’s not doing it with Wells, or Marshall, or Harden or Z or Demp or Lilly. If anything, Lou is TOO QUICK to take the starting pitcher out.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed
but which one is our most valuable asset based on age and current salary
its very similar to Prior in that regard
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 4, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
...
Marmol is a great guy. He’s got the ability to be a great pitcher. However, I don’t think he’s our most valuable assett. No reliever can be.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
i had never heard that
wow!
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
That's a relief
For a second I thought we were actually going to have a critical post that Drew wasn’t going to immediately dispute.
Thank god there’s a “real” fan like him to always jump to the Cubs’ defense.
sorry I'm not scarred and crusty like you are,
oldster.
I don’t find Lou to be Dusty-like at all.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Move Soriano out of leadoff
Theriot can bat first. I’d be fine with moving everyone esle up one notch.
by jerry morales rules on Jun 4, 2009 12:08 PM CDT reply actions
so Soriano bats ninth?
Ted Lilly is please.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
that would be a shake up
batting in opposite order
Lilly
Blanco/Scales
Hill
Johnson
Font
Lee
Fukudome
Theriot
Soriano
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
so my above lineup isnt gonna help improve the team
or morale?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
i know you were replying to him
i was just asking….and “something” is right, the question is what would it do
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
This may sound crazy...
But lets try to steal GM Walt Jocketty away from the Reds. He obviously knows what he is doing. We’ll call it compensation for Dusty Baker.
Jocketty is a good GM.
The Reds aren’t letting him go anywhere.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why does the team need to be shaken up?
We’re not even 1/3rd into the season, we’re a game above .500, and only 4 games back behind some very flawed opponents. We’re without our 2 best hitters at the moment, and about 8 of the regular players have so far played well below career norms and are very likely to progress back to their abilities.
Just because you guys don’t get the warm fuzzies about the team now that Derosa and Wood are gone doesn’t mean that they’re not a talented team who’s extremely likely to start playing better baseball.
by Wreckard on Jun 4, 2009 1:31 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
+freakin 1
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
+ 1 flippin more
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Classic Cub fan syndrome -- Fire Lou Piniella
Cub fans are infamous for falling ridiculously insanely in love with a manager, embracing the honeymoon period, then crapping all over the man by year 3 on the job. It happens EVERY friggin time with this franchise. It’s all Lou’s fault, it’s all Lou’s fault !!!!!
And we wonder why this franchise hasn’t won a World Series in 101 years.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
i agree....
a manager has little overall impact on the club and we tend to “over-react” on both ends of the spectrum
which is why i was saying all last year and the year before Pineilla was getting WAY too much credit
now he’s getting WAY too much blame
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 4, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
and so thusly
when Milton Bradley is told that HE will make the decision to go on the DL or not, that must be HIS fault, not management’s.
Right?
Just want to make sure things are clear.
(Note: I don’t think Lou should be fired.)
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Ummm...
Sorry I never was in love with him. He was the manager so I supported him.
Just look at him and tell me you think he has the fire and desire in him right now.
Lou Piniella doesn't want to be here anymore
That is my assessment of things. Yes, I think he regrets coming to the Cubs in the first place and wishes he were now in the employ of the Steinbrenners as special advisor, a job that he has long-standing open offer to take and would allow him to spend a lot of time at home in Temple Terrace Florida.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
That's a pretty strong statement. What exactly are you basing this on?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 4, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
his womanly
intuition.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 4, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I happen to agree with you this time
so why then not consider a managerial change right now? I know it won’t likely make a difference but I’d take the chance. Lou just seems to be going through the motions to me. There is no passion or fire.
I don't know. He seems pretty passionate when his relief pitchers start
walking guys. Have you ever read his lips when they start to screw up? He seems to have plenty of fire when that happens. I don’t think you can tell when most managers are fired up unless something big happens. A good manager is cool under pressure and wants to convey to his team that things are under control. If the manager gets nervous and starts to panic, the players will follow his lead. A good leader instills confidence in his followers, not all-out panic.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 4, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
i got it guys
let Judd Sirott do PBP on all Cub broadcasts while also managing the team. That will be a great shake up
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
trade for a shortstop...
nothing against theriot, but where he maybe an avg. shortstop he looks like he would be above avg. at 2nd.
I wonder what it would take to get tulowitzki from Colorado or Drew from Arizona. they are both having down years.
I would hang a dead rat from the clubhouse ceiling.
I know that would really shake me up anyway.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
