Phil Rogers = Moron X 5

This is about the dumbest things I have ever had the misfortune of reading.

over 2 years ago BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness 24 comments 1 recs |

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Which is why I didn't post the link in yesterday's game preview.

It hurt my hands when I touched the page in the dead-tree edition of the paper.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jun 30, 2009 4:39 AM CDT reply actions

The move proposed by Rogers.............

………..won’t cure this team’s ills, but it’s not that ridiculous either.

Zambrano’s show has run stale. Rogers didn’t even mention the stare given by Z out to MB in the 6th when the Getz double fell in right. Of course, Bradley had no play, but that didn’t prevent Carlos from showing up a teammate – AGAIN!

Lou has supposedly held chat sessions with Zambrano already this year, but it might be time for a refresher.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Jun 30, 2009 8:01 AM CDT reply actions

Addition by subtraction doesn't work

by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Wanna back that up?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 1, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Do I really have to back up why getting rid of a good player

and getting nothing in return can’t make your team better?

by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Presumably, you would get SOMETHING in return for trading Zambrano.

Correct?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 1, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Rogers suggests putting him on waivers

and taking nothing in return.

Either way, given his salary you can be guaranteed that what you would get in return would be of lesser value than Zambrano himself (since you’d be expecting the other team to pick up all or most of the contract). Probably a package a bit less than what you saw teams offering the Padres for Peavy (whose deal is slightly below market value, where Z’s is right at market value).

That’s just not a deal that benefits the Cubs in any way other than salary relief, and gets rid of a player whose production you can’t just replace – Z is one of the better pitchers in baseball.

by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions

It would be addition.............

……….by addition, because as you mention, the salary relief could put the Cubs in a position to spend better. Those players acquired with Z’s salary would have to be considered as part of the deal.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Jul 1, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, whatever - it would be stupid for any number of other reasons then

Like that Z’s production is among the best of all MLB pitchers over the last few years, which means he’s essentially irreplaceable, certainly for the money.

You certainly aren’t going to get someone as good as him on the open market for what you’re paying him, and players priced at market value don’t get much in return in trade. Again, what you’d get back wouldn’t be anywhere near his value.

What – exactly – is the problem with Z? Sure he’d probably be better if he was calmer and less emotional on the mound, and if he was more consistent, but so what? He is who he is, and who he is is a really good baseball player.

This notion that “he’s not an ace but is getting paid like one” is such a stinking pile of garbage I’m not sure where to start; first off it’s not true (unless you consider AJ Burnett or Derek Lowe “aces” – they have very similar contracts). And besides – what’s with the obsession with labeling pitchers? This is just like that ridiculous “Oh he’s not a #1 guy, he’s more like a #2 or #3 guy” debate people get into. He’s a really good pitcher. That’s really all that matters.

Getting rid of him is such an astoundingly stupid idea that I can’t believe anyone anywhere thinks its worth considering.

by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

You and I don't often agree.

But you are spot on here.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 2, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions

Do you honestly think MB could see Carlos' eyes from that distance?

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by daver on Jul 1, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions

It's not MB's eyes...........

………..that are on trial, rather Zambrano’s actions. Even if Bradley could not/did not notice, there were plenty of others who witnessed his antics.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Jul 1, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions

No, the dumb part

Was giving this clown a no-trade clause.

He is not an ace. He is not a stopper. We are trading two or three incidents for one good start at this point. He shows up teammates. He throws at other hitters for his own failures.

It IS stupid to suggest waiving him. I grant that.

But it isn’t stupid to want him gone.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 8:43 AM CDT reply actions

+1

I’ll add that while I think Z is a good pitcher, he is not worth $16 million/year.

by dr stabbingworth on Jun 30, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions

Once again, I challenge this.

Granted, Big Z isn’t an Ace. But he’s still a good (sometimes great) starting pitcher – and to want rid one’s team of a good starting pitcher is, IMHO, irresponsible.

Look at his gamelogs this season. Nine of his 13 starts thus far this season have been good ones. And even his clunkers have had some upsides – his 7 IP/7 ER vs. the Cards on 4/17 saved the bullpen and his 4.2 IP/3 ER vs. the Pads on 5/22 still featured 7 Ks.

Z’s emotional outbursts and questionable HBPs are simply static. Ignore them! Who cares if he hit Dewayne Wise? It’s not like that alone kept the Cubs from winning the game. They weren’t scoring any runs!

Phil Rogers’ credibility is in double-digit negative numbers as far as I’m concerned. To even suggest waiving Z is reactionary, irresponsible, unrealistic and just plain asinine. The Trib should waive Phil’s employment contract. And if Rogers ever has the cajones to walk into the Cubs clubhouse, Carlos should waive all pretense of politeness in responding to Phil’s sugggestion.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by daver on Jun 30, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

A good starting pitcher

For his salary and baggage simply isn’t worth it, in my opinion. And like I said, we are reaching the point where there are more incidents than great starts.

However, I agree that it is stupid to outright waive him.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions

It's the Red Sox model

The Sox put Manny Ramirez on irrevocable waivers back in 2004, IIRC. If anyone wanted him, they could have him. No one took him, obviously.

Rogers is basically saying Zambrano’s antics are Mannyesque, which I don’t agree with.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Jun 30, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions

you're correct, Manny rarely if ever had meltdowns on the field

by WanderingWanderer on Jul 1, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions

It's not my money or yours.

Carlos got the deal he could get at the time, and what’s done is done. Maybe, by some measure, he is making too much. But starting pitching is – and always will be – a very valuable commodity. Unless the Cubs could replace Z with a pitcher of equal quality, losing him would weaken the rotation and hurt the team.

And, again, I don’t really understand why the incidents bother you – or any other Cubs fan – so much. Sunday’s game was out of reach anyway, partly because Carlos wasn’t pitching particularly effectively but also partly because Danks was and the Cubs’ bats could not adjust.

Again, I would urge all Cubs fans to see past the static of Carlos Zambrano’s emotional outbursts and look at what he has brought to this team over the last six and a half seasons. Be careful what you wish for. Things could be a lot worse.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by daver on Jun 30, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

There's a lot to be said for the fact that...

… despite “all he’s brought to the team”, they still haven’t won anything with him. And until he stops losing his temper on the mound and other places, there’s no guarantee he won’t do it in a very critical time. If he could be flipped for a decent starting pitcher with an even temper (hell, if you told me there was another Randy Wells out there) I’d do it. The guy’s not worth the drama anymore.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Jun 30, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions

I see, so it's Carlos Zambrano's fault the Cubs haven't won a World Series.

Gimme a break. Any player could snap at any time – has Carlos not kept his cool in the last two postseasons? Did he throw a water cooler at DeRosa after Mark bobbled that double-play ball last October? His antics may bother you, but they have little bearing on the very respectable results he’s accumulated as a starting pitcher over the last 6+ seasons – 1,349 innings of baseball!!! He’s absolutely worth the “drama.” And Randy Wells has been phenomenal, but let’s see where he’s at when he’s made 30 starts in a season.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by daver on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions

"Any player could snap at any time"

yes but most don’t snap as often as Z does. That was a pretty ridiculous defense

by WanderingWanderer on Jul 1, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

And I still say - so what?

Good pitchers are hard to find.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by daver on Jul 1, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions

because

he had so little control that game, he couldn’t keep them from hitting homeruns, but he had enough control to hit batters.

Right.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions