A list of Hendry's transactions for 2009, and how they've turned out.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 2:12 PM CDT
123 comments
CAUTION: The results are pretty awful. Three of the guys we acquired this off-season to be a part of this team aren't even with us anymore (Gathright, Vizcaino, and Bako). And, a fourth guy has been on two fake DL stints and is likely on his way out the door (Miles).
Joey Gathright
12/16/08 Signed OF Joey Gathright to a one-year contract.
05/08/09 Outrighted CF Joey Gathright to Iowa Cubs.
05/08/09 Traded CF Joey Gathright to Baltimore for Ryan Freel.
Mark Derosa
12/31/08 Traded Mark DeRosa to Cleveland for RHPs Jeff Stevens and Chris Archer and LHP John Gaub.
06/27/09 Hendry contacts Cleveland to inquire about trading back for Mark DeRosa.
06/30/09 Mark DeRosa is currently playing for St. Louis, batting .263 with 50 RBIs (would lead the Cubs in RBIs).
Aaron Miles
12/31/08 Signed INF Aaron Miles to a two-year contract.
05/27/09 Placed 2B Aaron Miles on the 15-Day disabled list retroactive to May 26, 2009. Right shoulder strain (fake injury #1).
06/29/09 Placed 2B Aaron Miles on the 15-Day disabled list retroactive to June 21, 2009. Hyperextended right elbow (fake injury #2).
Jason Marquis/Luis Vizcaino
01/06/09 Traded RHP Jason Marquis to Colorado for RHP Luis Vizcaino.
04/23/09 Designated RHP Luis Vizcaino for assignment.
Milton Bradley
01/08/09 Signed OF Milton Bradley to a three-year contract.
06/30/09 Milton Bradley currently has played in only 59/73 games, suspended once, and batting just .238 with 17 RBIs
Michael Wuertz
02/02/09 Traded RHP Michael Wuertz to Oakland Athletics for Minor League OF Richie Robnett and IF Justin Sellers.
06/30/09 Michael Wuertz currently owns a 2.72 ERA with 41 Ks in 36.1 IP.
Aaron Heilman
01/28/09 Acquired RHP Aaron Heilman from the Seattle Mariners for LHP Garrett Olson and INF Ronny Cedeno.
06/30/09 Aaron Heilman currently owns a 3.89 ERA.
Kevin Gregg
11/13/08 Acquired RHP Kevin Gregg from the Florida Marlins in exchange for RHP Jose Ceda.
06/30/09 Kevin Gregg currently owns a 3.93 ERA with 13 saves and 3 blown saves and 6 HRs allowed.
Paul Bako
01/30/09 Signed free agent catcher Paul Bako to a one-year contract.
03/30/09 Released C Paul Bako.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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OK, so what's the point
of this exercise? Again?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought a timeline would be interesting to look over.
Everyone focuses on DeRosa around here… but, just about every move of the off-season was a complete failure.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Hyperbole Fairy has visited you
I’m not going to judge whether just about every move has been a “complete failure” right now, thanks.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, we get it
You aren’t going to judge this team until four days after it has been mathematically eliminated. Fine.
So why don’t you come back then?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fact #1
DeRosa would not be leading Cubs in RBI’s because he wouldn’t have anyone on base in front of him for last 2 months.
by ak123 on Jun 30, 2009 2:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That is not true,
and it is SOOOO not true.
The problem has been hitting with RISP – there have been plenty – PLENTY – of men on bease in front of our batters.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I ran the numbers the other day and the Indians have had about 200 more baserunners that the Cubs
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 30, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty clogged.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 30, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland...
has had 866 PAs with RISP. Cubs have had 745 PAs with RISP. Runs scored, Cleveland 303, Cubs 202.
Not sure if this helps with either side….I stopped looking when i saw a BA of .216 with RISP for the Cubs. OUch.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems like a lot more runs for Cleveland, proportionate to the number of baserunners.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering Cleveland is an AL team
with 9 true hitters instead of 7.5, that accounts for the number of runs too.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt about it - the Cubs have stunk at knocking people in
But to say DeRosa’s RBI numbers would be the say if he were a Cub is just not true.
yes the Cubs have had some baserunners, and stranded most of them. But they have had few baserunners than the Indians, and thus fewer RBI opportunities.
Where would DeRosa have been in the Cubs lineup?
2nd (his primary position in the Indians lineup) – Behind Soriano – not many RBI there
6th (his primary position in the 2008 Cubs lineup) – Behind Bradley or Soto – not good either
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 30, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet somehow....
….someone has been leaving a lot of RISP on this team.
Since we know, according to you, it can’t be anyone batting behind Soriano, Bradley, or Soto – that leaves a lot of accountability for some poor unfortunate fellow.
DeRosa would be a better offensive weapon on this team than most of the lineup, and he would hit better than just about all of this lineup with RISP, if we’re going by performance that has already happened. He could very well be leading the Cubs in RBIs, mainly because all it requires is hitting about .240 with RISP.
But he’s a Cardinal now, and obviously (as with every acquisition the Cardinals ever make — according to many here) he’s made them worse, so we need not worry. They’ve only hurt themselves, and will hurt themselves further if they get Dye or Holliday.
Clearly, DeRosa would not have made this team any better.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The moves look bad so far ....
but let’s wait til the end of the season to access Hendry’s offseason.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jun 30, 2009 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Waiting that long...
….means no evaluating at the trade deadline.
No thanks.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boy, next to Rami's 18
Bradley’s 59 games looks immense.
You can’t call his signing a “failure” till at least the end of the season. NO ONE is playing well. This is not Hendry’s fault.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We have a lot of Pirates games left..
…..among other bottom-feeders. I suspect the numbers will come up a bit; but I do think the reality is that this team has shown an inability to beat a playoff-calibur team, much less for three series in a row.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
maybe and maybe not. Nevertheless, the jury must still be out on Bradley, and Gregg. Heilman has been doing better. And wasn’t Bako released before the larger part of his contract kicked in?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you can
You can re-evaluate if you like, but Bradley has been a failure. He still has a chance to be a success.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
he’s a work in progress. He has not played well up till now, but there’s a reason you use entire season statistics to evalute years.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the big leagues
You don’t get to be a work in progress. Send him back to AA ball if he needs to progress.
We are almost done with the first half. He is an unequivocable first-half failure.
I grant he has a chance to be a second-half success.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you cannot
take a half of season out of context, and say “that’s it, this guy is a failure.”
When the season is over, then you can evaluate him.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
out of context???
What, his stats are misquoted by some evil reporter???? What the hell are you yammering about now?
No, he needs to be evaluated NOW, or at least before July 31.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no he doesn't.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why...
would anyone ever make a trade deadline move?
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A slow start
Or more in Bradley’s case, a slow first half, won’t make the rest of his stat line look good for 2009. We really don’t know if 2008 was just a career year. If Bradley has a strong second half, his OPS+ will be closer to 100, but don’t expect numbers befitting of a player we just paid a ton of money for in the offseason.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not all bad moves
Ronnie Cedeno’s line is .133/.213/.224, which you conveniently omitted
Nobody seems to know where Jose Ceda is, and there are rumors that he has some sort of personal issues
Marquis, Bako, Viz, Gathright were all salary moves that saved money. Bako and Gath were wastes of cash, but not enough cash to make a difference. Freel will make a competent bench player, and he plays the game right. He’s essentially Reed Johnson jr.
I’d say the only move that didn’t make much sense was assuming that Fontenot could play every day. The guy had 85 at-bats against LHP in his entire major league career. Oh, and Aaron Miles sucks. I guess that factors in to the 2nd/3rd base clusterfuck.
by dr stabbingworth on Jun 30, 2009 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
We didn't get anything useful in return for Marquis.
And, just ate Vizcaino’s contract…
That’s a pretty bad move, considering Marquis is a very servicable pitcher (just with an inflated contract). We won more games in the #5 spot than anyone else that past two seasons with Marquis. And, he’s once again, pitching to his career numbers right now.
Gathright was signed to be a regular contributor on this team… and they quickly dumped him.
Bako was signed to back-up Soto… and Koyie Hill actually beat him out.
You have to consider those as backwards moves.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright was signed to be the 5th outfielder
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 30, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was signed to be a good role player
A. Late inning defensive replacement
B. Base runner/base stealer
C. LH bat off the bench…… because we have lefty-itis.
But, he ran the bases poorly with some miscues, didn’t hit much in his limited time, and his miscues in the OF allowed two triples that shouldn’t have happened in the bottom of 9th inning as a defensive replacement in CF on May 7th in Houston. That was his ticket out of town the next morning.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeabut
Starting pitching hasn’t been a problem. Wells has been just fine and is cheaper.
The only place losing Marquis hurts is that he is a better hitter than Freel
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't saying that we needed him...
We have a wealth of pitching. But, teams place a pretty strong value on quality pitching, and we got absolutely nothing for Marquis other than a little cash relief. Nothing. That’s pretty sad.
He’s got 9 wins right now and has pitched more innings (100.1) than any of our current starters (Dempster leads with 99).
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we did
We got $5M in payroll freed up.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And wasted it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good thing the numbers don't play the game
If they did we might be able to make that kind of proclamation. Last time I checked we still had 90 games left to play.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Fontenot WAS supposed to play every day
Had Ramirez not gotten hurt, he and Miles would be platooning. I think that was the plan.
Having said that, it was inexcusable to go in without a proper backup 3B
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd (although not totally agreed with)
We’re also missing the Dempster signing in this post.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jun 30, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaron Miles' injuries aren't fake.
He had a shoulder problem in spring training which, apparently, got worse. It’s a real good explanation as to why he has not been able to hit at all this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 2:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well Al... it's sure foolin me.
He came off the DL, went 5 for 25, sat on the bench for 8 days, and went back on the DL. Seems like Lou likes Blanco better.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't that decision have been made in December?
Would have been cheaper and spared us Miles’ bad play.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Hendry thought Miles would be a left-handed version of DeRosa. I really think that’s what he/his scouts thought.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 30, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that Miles...
… was only supposed to be the RIGHT-HANDED platoon partner for Fontenot.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles was seen as the perfect platoon partner
for a team that wanted to get more left-handed, since he was a righty-leaning batter, who nevertheless switch-hit.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 1, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it might have worked....
.. without the injuries. But having the injuries exposed how weak he was as a LH batter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in hindsight
a lot of the hitters we were considering as alternatives in the off-season aren’t hitting either – at least, last I checked. Aurilia, Nomar, Punto were all not doing well last I looked.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 1, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By a psychic maybe
I don’t think anyone saw Blanco hitting nearly .400 in AAA this season.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may explain why Miles, who has been a decent hitter over his career
has been so bad this season
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 1, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of a song
Hello me … Meet the real me
And my misfits way of life
A dark black past is my
Most valued possessions
Hindsight is always 20-20
But looking back it’s still a bit fuzzy
Speak of mutually assured destruction?
Nice story … Tell it to Reader’s Digest!!!
- From “Sweating Bullets” by Megadeth
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 3:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
♪♫
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am going to throw this out there...
SackMan seems to be taking heat for this thread, but i actually like it. If you honestly look at all the moves made, were they made for the sake of making moves, or where they moves that you look at and say “yea that is definitely going to make this a better Cubs team”? I dont think i can say that.
Now i am in the minority here, but i knew right away Milton was not a good signing, mainly because he didnt fit the team. I thought Dunn was a better signing, yea yea the defense this and that, i am not getting into who is better or who is not. I am just saying where i was coming from at the beginning of the season. I also thought that DeRosa was pretty comparable with Milton’s numbers as far as production. yes Milton had a higher slugging %, OPS, and OBP (every other statistical category they were smilar in), but they were not to the point where Bradley was going to win the Cubs another 20 games or soemthing crazy like that. We forget how many games we won last year, and with DeRosa we knew what we were getting, Bradley as we all knew was a gamble.
The Kevin Gregg trade, would i have done it? Probably not, i think i would have pursued Kerry Wood, just because he was the longest standing Cub. To me i think Gregg and Kerry are pretty similar closers.
I am just saying the other moves seem to me as moves just to make moves if you know what i mean. And we can all speculate on DeRo or Bradley, or this or that (that was not my intent of the post). I just think sometimes leaving the lamp alone is the right move.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Standing pat was unacceptable
unless you were prepared for another three-and-out in the playoffs.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just making the playoffs is not good enough anymore
The Cubs are supposed to make it to and win a World Series, so three and out two years in a row was a good indication that something need to be done. Fault Hendry for making bad moves, but to fault him for making moves is silly.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 1, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a faulty assumption
to assume we’d go 3 and out in the playoffs again
you’re suggesting those 6 games are more indicative than the 323 games that suggested the Cubs were a playoff team
please explain how those 6 games are a more representative sample than the previous 323
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 1, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should those six games be ignored?
Should the two runs per game the Cubs averaged in those six games be ignored too? Going into this season making no major changes to address the post season failures, especially the offensive failures, would have crazy.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 1, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can pick multiple 6 game spans
in the previous 323 and you wouldn’t draw conclusions from them…
its a ridiculously small sample
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 1, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But those were six playoff games, not just any games
Clearly we disagree. You think the Cubs failures in the playoffs the last two years did not indicate any significant problem with the roster, whereas I do. Taking the same group of guys into the season again this year hoping they would do better in the playoffs would have been crazy IMO.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 2, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think all these moves....
Where necessary? Or would focusing on maybe 1 or 2 major deals, and work in some minor leaguers in as fill in guys instead of going after washed up veterans so to speak.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct.
But Hendry blew up a 97-win team instead of tweaking it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with the "blew up" aspect of it
as letsplay2two’s post below illustrates.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't exactly blow it up...
But, I find hard difficult to stomach that 3 of the guys he wanted on this team, aren’t even a part of the team anymore. Those are backwards transactions… leaving you with very little in return. And, in some cases (Vizcaino), losing a big chunk of cash as well.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This...
is something a former base clogging coach was burned for….“wanting his guys”
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You of all people remember, they aren't guys, they're "HORSES."
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 30, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA....
i was one of them! Down at the Cell, i must have thrown 300 bp balls over the course of an hour or so…Pitch count please?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny, reads like a fat albert joke.
He such a bad manager, he can’t even manage the pitch count on the BP arm.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 30, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to Glendon Rusch?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 30, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The irony of all this goes back to your character guy/leader
posts after the loss to the Dodgers. You cited the need for more stabilizing influences in the clubhouse.
Regardless of the business decisions on DeRosa/Wood, they were leaders. Add them to whatever the Dempster family is enduring and the clubhouse has lost at least two active leaders with only adding one character question mark (Bradley) and a couple of fringe role players in Miles/Gathright.
The phrase “blew up” may very accurate when accounting for team chemistry.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 30, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Exactly what I've been thinking. Make this one green!
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's well stated, regardless of which side of the fence you sit on this team.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jun 30, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yo are right...perfectly said...
it doesnt waiver one way or another.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous
Winning begats chemistry, not the other way around. It might make you feel warm and fuzzy to talk about it, but that’s the truth.
What Reinsdorf and Krause did to the Bulls after 1998 was “blowing up” a team. Not what Hendry did last off-season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not say the team was blown up, nor am I bemoaning the loss of DeRosa.
Reading your post, you imply you do not believe in leadership.
I was merely pointing out Hendry subtracted a minimum of two leaders and added none. 1 of the remaining veteran leaders is struggling with personal stuff and probably not as effective in the clubhouse.
Winning does not begat chemistry, it smooths the rough spots and makes good chemistry less important. IMO, bad chemistry, and the lack of leadership to make corrections, is what causes minor slides to become major. This is possibly what we are witnessing.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jun 30, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that several players went on record
expressing disappointment with the DeRosa deal is proof of what you’re saying.
A lot of reporters are picking up on the “players don’t like it when other players smash helmets, etc…” routine as well. That tells me a lot of little birdies are trashing Bradley.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Precisely.
Turn it green. Turn both the above comments green. Spot-on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen teams with great "chemistry"
that flat-out suck.
And I’ve seen teams were people despised each other win it all.
I just think it’s overrated.. And I think it really doesn’t make a team win.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on all of those points.
What you don’t mention is that leaders and “character” guys can keep a team on a more even approach. Keep most of the guys moving toward a common goal. Obviously, every team has outliers who don’t respond, but most.
Without enough of guys to carry this responsibility, three game losing streaks can become 6 game swings.
Conversely, 4 game win streaks can breed overconfidence and cause winning teams to lose focus and lose games they shouldn’t.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well done
I think the truth is, too many people go the “we need some fire in this club” route when justifying the Bradley signing. Fire is good, passion is good, pure anger is just disruptive. No one likes the antics…no one. Apparently, Hendry was sold on the fire crap cause this is what we got. Too bad really.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 1, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Standing pat would have been unacceptable indeed
however, I too said that Bradley was a bad signing from day one. I wanted him to pan out but with Dunn out there, apparently stating that he would love to be a Cub, it was so stupid to sign an injury risk who has a temper that makes Bog Z look tame.
Dunn meanwhile, has shown Hendry and the lot of us, why he was the smarter go. This is not retrospect either. Both play a mediocre D and strike out a lot. I would have always preferred the guaranteed 40 HR, 90-100 RBIs, and 150+ games. It is like a third grade math problem really.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 1, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well... you got your wish
hope you find this season “acceptable”
because to me, last season was MUCH more acceptable than this one
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 1, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Up until October 1, it was.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy cow
I also thought that DeRosa was pretty comparable with Milton’s numbers as far as production.
BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
.321/.436/.563/.999/163 = 2008 Milton Bradley
.285/.376/.481/.877/118 = 2008 Mark DeRosa
That’s a pretty significant difference. Plus, Milton’s a switch hitter. Whether or not he’s a “fit” for the team, we cannot judge his signing on the 1/10th of his time here that we have so far seen.
Kerry Wood signed for $10 mill. I love Kerry Wood too, but do you really think he’s worth $10mill? The Cleveland fans don’t. Gregg is putting up much better numbers.
When a team stays fairly static for two years and cannot make a dent in the post season, that calls for a shakeup. Did Lou & Jim overreach? Probably. It’s only June 30th, and there’s plenty of baseball left to play, however.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a fair point
But when you take into account DeRosa’s versatility in the field, demeanor in the clubhouse and Milton’s injury history, it’s not as easy as the stats.
DeRosa can fill in when Bradley AND Ramirez are hurt. Bradley can barely field his own spot.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as much as some people deify St. Mark
he can’t play two positions at once. Yes, he’s a flexible player, and yes, I would have liked to keep him. But they’re not even comparable as hitters, and that’s what Lou and Hendry were looking for.
All this hindsight is easy to produce. Jim and Lou have the hard part — looking at past statistics and deciding if they’ll hold up in the future.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm saying there is more to it than stats
Bradley’s psyche, injury history and limited versatility should have factored in.
This isn’t a blank slate. There is a book on him.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention that...
Bradley played in 126 games versus DeRosa 149. Big difference there as well.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The harsh part is
this offseason was packed with “gambles”. Hendry signed so many players based on 2008 stats and not necessarily career. Bradley may be the exception but Miles? Gregg? I believe that their careers are not all that 2008ish.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 1, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a significat difference...
But you knew what you were getting with DeRosa, he had been on the team, he seemed to be liked in the club house, and it was the opposite with Bradley, as far as you really didnt know what you were getting, he was coming from the AL, to the NL, his history not withstanding, because people do change (although tough to believe right now).
I cannot argue with the Kerry Wood, i understand that move, and like i said Gregg works well as a closer for this team.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jun 30, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Gregg, MB, and losing DeRosa were the three main off season moves.....
So far, Gregg is pretty much a wash, about the same as having Woody, not real improvement, not really worse either.
MB so far is a miss. But I don’t blame Hendry from taking the risk and going for him. If MB hits 300/25 HR/80-100 RBIs, no one would really care about water coolers, and 1 day suspensions. But if MB does not hit and get his average at least to 280 and get maybe 15 homers, he wll be a stumble by Hendry for 2009. I still hold out hope he will settle down and hit.
DeRosa, a miss if only because Cubs got nothing of real value for him, and he was a fan favorite, and so far this season we could use a fan favorite. I don’t think he is exactly a game changer, but he was better than what Hendry came up with with the loss of Ramirez. That injury makes the trade look worse, no doubt.
The rest were small moves and/or cost cutting moves of no real significance to the prosepects for the 2009 season eitehr way.
Hendry had a team that won over 90 games and got it the playoffs. The question was, how much do you change on a team like that. He tried to fill a few holes and boost the hitting. Maybe he did not do enough. It does seem so far that the moves mostly backfired and weakend the team.
The most fun I ever had in my life was hittin' a baseball. And the best sound I ever heard in my life was a ball hit with a bat. Powww! (Ted Williams)
by letsplay2two on Jun 30, 2009 3:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well it is pretty obvious that you weren't trying to give a fair assessment
How about reporting where Ceda is? How about passing on Wood’s deal? Does Bako even matter? He was a training camp invite that many teams offer.
I hate defending Hendry but at least make a fair assessment.
by rlpete on Jun 30, 2009 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And once again, this turns into a DeRosa deification thread
Surprise, surprise.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In the totality of offseason moves
Hendry must get a D. Essentially he tried to replace DeRosa with Miles. And while we have to wait on the progress of the pitchers received from Cleveland, the loss of DeRosa is huge right now considering the loss of ARam.
I’m going to call the replacement of Wood with Gregg a push, particularly with the dollars saved factored in.
Blanco to Bako to Hill was an unforgivable loss. In many ways Blanco was a major clubhouse leader, particularly with Soto and the pitchers. And the problem is that money wasn’t significant. Shame on you Mr. GM.
We can all agree that Bradley has been a bust thus far. However, even those opposed to him before the acquisition must admit they couldn’t have predicted his terrible numbers. If he were producing even at a career average pace, most of us would probably accept him as a positive addition. Therefore I can’t blame Jim for this. I have yet to see where anyone predicted these kind of numbers from Bradley.
Heilman has been terrible. Despite his ERA, his WHIP is 1.62. The first batter he faces has an OBP of .516. His OBP with RISP is .431. His walk rate is 6.0/9. And these numbers were predictable. After a decent career with the Mets, his WHIP spiked up last year from 1.07 to 1.59. I give Hendry a F on this addition.
Despite Marquis year, he was despised by many in Chicago. And our #5 slot hasn’t fallen off with his exit.
So while JH hasn’t done a good job this offseason, the biggest problem has been from last year regular like Soriano, Soto, Fontenot and ARam’s loss to the DL. When you look at the problems in the pen it magnifies the team’s fallout. Name one Cub player who is having anything close to a career year.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 30, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
About Marquis...
… you’re right, the starting pitching hasn’t fallen off. Thus, trading him was a useful idea. Unfortunately, the return on that deal is zero.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 30, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanco is an unforgivable loss
I think you’ve all lost your minds, kiddies. You can’t fix stupid, I guess.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can easily fix yours
by shutting up. You’ve already proven your words mean nothing.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 30, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BLou
has competition for biggest ass on the board.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jun 30, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and their names are
tharr and tomas 21.
Anybody who excoriates Hendry for getting rid of Henry Blanco either has had a frontal lobotomy or is in need of one.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 1, 2009 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's interesting when a post like this
fails to mention all the trades. rather inconsequential, but we dealt rocky roquet for a yet unnamed PTBNL. if you’re talking about his moves, list them all, not ’the abridged version.
by tim815 on Jun 30, 2009 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget about McGeHee....
… though he’s taking the collar so far tonight against Santana
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 30, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You forgot to mention...
…that the Cubs are also eating money on Marquis contract as well.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And got nothing in return.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well 5 million in return
Bad move but that was the reason. Oh and of course not a Lou favorite either.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 1, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
$5M is a pretty good return.
Especially for a payroll-crunched team.
Though if you asked around here, Hendry was supposed to have magically foreseen the ownership situation that forced this season’s payroll crunch.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't the point.
The point is that the payroll flexibility, at this writing, appears wasted.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only things that makes me mad
is how well Jason and Chad are pitching.
http://irudey.mybrute.com/
Fun little Time waster!
by Rudey on Jun 30, 2009 10:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chad Gaudin...
… has a 1.39 WHIP and a 4.97 ERA. I’m not sure that qualifies as pitching “well”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was NL pitcher of the week last week
so that makes up for all the lousy pitching he has done previously this year
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 1, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
guess Al missed my sarcasm
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 2, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wells has been better
If Jason Marquis were still a Cub, we’d be a worse team. Plus, we’d be $5M poorer.
I’m not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'd be a worse team?
How is that possible? Presuming the Marquis deal was done to free up money for Bradley, I’d argue we’d hardly be worse off with Marquis in the rotation, Marshall and perhaps Wells in the bullpen all year (thus sparing us Heilman), and we could hardly have been worse with Fukudome in RF and Johnson in CF all year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'd be giving a worse pitcher more IP than his alternative
The idea that Hendry could have come into the season planning on Fukudome and Johnson as everyday outfielders is pretty preposterous. I would bet money that by the end of the year, Bradley will progress back to his career numbers and have a higher WAR than Fukudome and Johnson combined.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do those numbers stand right now?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johson and Bradley are both about replacement level
Fukudome’s riding high on his hot start, with about a win and a half above replacement.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Specific numbers?
I’m asking because I’m considering whether to take your bet.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, here they are with links
Milton Bradley – -0.1
Reed Johnson – 0.4
Kosuke Fukudome – 1.7
Adam Dunn, by the way, has only been worth 1 win more than Bradley so far this season, despite how awful Bradley has been.
by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also not a fair assumption
that Marquis would still be pitching this well under the Cubs’ management.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 1, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
some posters have way too much time on their hands
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 1, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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