Cubs Fail Offensively, Defensively And Managerially In 3-0 Shutout By Pirates
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:28 AM CDT
in Recaps
565 comments
NOTE FROM AL: Due to the quick game again last night, this recap was actually posted at 8:55 pm Tuesday... I've moved it to the top of the front page this morning, for those who weren't online Tuesday night. (This is why it refers to July 1 being "tomorrow" and other references to Tuesday as "today".)
Tomorrow is July 1 and I'm sure the Cubs are happier to see the calendar change than at almost any time in recent team history.
There's no need to go through the litany of bad play and even goofier sideshows that have marred the Cubs' 11-14 month of June, their first losing month since August 2007 (not counting the 0-1 in March 2008).
I'm so tired of seeing the Cubs actually get baserunners in scoring position with nobody out and then have three hitters go to the plate with absolutely horrendous approaches. The eighth inning of the Cubs' 3-0 loss to the Pirates, their eighth shutout loss of the year, is a case study to be dissected by baseball analysts everywhere. (That analysis shouldn't take too long, as the game was over in 2:18, only a minute longer than last night's game and the second-shortest nine-inning game of 2009.)
The Cubs caught a break when pinch-hitter Milton Bradley's sharp grounder that appeared headed to left field was stopped by a diving Jack Wilson. It might have turned into a double play, or at least one out, but Wilson threw the ball past Freddy Sanchez at second base and into right field. Great! Ryan Theriot's at third, Bradley's at second, and the top of the order is up! Runs coming, right?
Wrong. As Len & Bob pointed out, the Pirates were actually conceding at least one run, as teams often will do in such situations; all Alfonso Soriano had to do was try to go the other way with a ground ball, or lift the ball into left field medium-deep, and the Cubs score a run (and likely get Bradley to third with only one out, a chance for two).
No. Soriano strikes out and has a terrible approach to his at-bat.
Then, please explain to me why Lou let Kosuke Fukudome bat against lefthander John Grabow. In that situation, Fukudome has about as much chance of getting a hit vs. Grabow as I do -- and I hit righthanded. If Ryan Freel's going to be on the team, that is the ideal situation to send him up to hit. Nope -- Dome bats, Dome gets called out on strikes. And Derrek Lee then took exactly one pitch from Grabow before hitting a weak ground ball to second base.
Oh, and Lou? What a concept -- John Grabow faced five hitters, four of them righthanded. Do you think Sean Marshall maybe, possibly, could do this sometime? And further, what on Earth was Bradley doing in center field, replacing Fukudome? Bradley's played CF before, sure, but only 15 games there since 2005. Isn't that why Sam Fuld was recalled, to play defense? I can just see Lou's response, had I been able to ask him that question: "I wanted Bradley to have another chance to bat." Sure, Lou -- that only would have taken three men to get on base, an unlikely scenario, and considering the meek way the Cubs went down against Pirates closer Matt Capps in the ninth, a pipedream.
All of this wasted another fine pitching effort by Ted Lilly, who allowed three runs in seven innings. Only two of those runs were earned, the first run scoring crazily on a dropped third strike on which Freddy Sanchez scored all the way from second base. It looked like a good throw from Geovany Soto to Lilly covering might have gotten Sanchez, but Geo's throw was wild.
Here's one good thing about today's game, about the only thing: Jake Fox again played third base competently. When Aramis Ramirez returns -- and it appears his rehab assignment, if it starts Thursday, will end Sunday, because Lou said in pregame remarks that A-Ram should need only "15 to 20 at-bats" -- if he's not at full strength (and who could expect him to be?), Fox could play third base a couple of times a week if needed.
In any case, let's all be glad June is over. July can't be worse.
Right?
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Just nothing fun about tonight's game
And yes. The Cubs seemed like they were phoning it in, from the manager on down.
by ChipSet on Jun 30, 2009 8:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't April...
A losing month?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jun 30, 2009 9:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is one of the most disheartening losses I've ever seen
And tomorrow, clowns like NBF and others will be telling us why we shouldn’t judge the season.
Bite me. This season is heading down the toilet.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jun 30, 2009 9:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Worf...
I used to find myself disagreeing with you. However, more and more, I am agreeing with everything you’re saying. This is pathetic to watch, and tomorrow they’ll most likely be 3 under. Good job Cubs!! Your long, strong history of losing looks like it will continue another year. But it’s O.K. right, cause they’re the Cubs. (Shakes head in disgust)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhJYt0UL7AQ I’d honestly rather watch this right now.
Another question: Why did the Cubs take Josh Vitters? If I remember correctly, Weiters was the top of the draft class. Was it because they did not want to screw around with Boras?
by cubfanwill on Jun 30, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you're forfieting
tomorrow’s game?
Nice.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
I said most likely. Think about it Drew, Wells could give up 1 run in 7 innings, and the way this teams looks, that is a lead impossible to overcome. Believe me Drew, I want them to win as badly, if not more, than the people on this site. Try as a might to not watch them and not care about the outcome, they’re like a virus.
I know that it’s possible to turn it around, but it seems to me very, very unlikely.
by cubfanwill on Jun 30, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not giving up
it’s not like they’re going to go 90-0 for the rest of the season. They’ll lose more games, and they’ll lose some badly. That doesn’t mean they aren’t turning it around.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The O's drafted
before the Cubs that year.
by The E-Man on Jun 30, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No they didn't
by cubfanwill on Jun 30, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't confuse people with the facts!
:)
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jun 30, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were questions and still are
whether long-term he is a catcher. He would essentially be the biggest catcher ever. If he has to move to 1st, his bat isn’t anything special. Right now, Wieters looks like a good pick but give it a few years.
by rlpete on Jun 30, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wieters' numbers so far...
In 85 PA:
247/297/388
Add to that 2 HR, 7 RBI, 21K, and only 6BB and he’s off to a sarcastically rip-roaring start (though it is still early). Geo can give us those numbers.
"Let's not get giggly." - Lou
by tdubcub on Jul 1, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clowns?
You’re a regular barrel of laughs around here, Worf. Or maybe you’re just a Bozo.
If the season is heading down the toilet, I would think you have better things to do than be here. Right?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my question then...
When do we say that’s it for this year and start selling off pieces for the future? I really would like to know when we start selling the older players for the future? Sori, Lee, Lilly, & Gameboard could all get us usable pieces back in a trade? I’m just wondering when we start to plan on the future?
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jun 30, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that so many of the pieces are not tradable
either due to NTC clauses or horrible contracts. Or both.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 30, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
none of those guys
can be traded.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they could be traded IF...
They were willing to waive their NTC, such as the chance to go to a club with a chance to make the playoffs.
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jun 30, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee and Lilly
maybe. Lee likes Chicago, a lot.
Sori and Bradley? Those are essentially untradable contracts, unless you pick up a significant amount of them, in which case, you don’t get the benefit of the salary dump.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waivers
What happens with players like Sori and Bradley with a NTC. Can they just be made subject to a waiver claim like Boston tried to do with Manny? If claimed, does the NTC come into play? Can the Cubs just let a claiming team become responsible for the contract?
Both players have big upsides, but getting out from under the contracts may be more positive.
Regardless of the answers to my questions above, my opinion is GM’s need to cough up the extra million a year or so to keep NTC’s off the contracts. You never know when circumstances dictate moving a player.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the answer to that.
FWIW, wouldnt’ that have made Sori’s contract over $140mill? Adding a million per year of a contract to avoid the NTC?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly, but which would you rather have
$18M a year where the player controls whether or not he leaves, or $19M a year where if you, as the GM, are lucky enough to find a taker you can make a move.
Anyway, my add $$$/no NTC observation was more general and less specific to Soriano. More specific to Soriano, I don’t care for contracts that long anyway.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
but can you imagine the howls if Soriano had been contracted for $145mill? :D
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Either way
You’d have to take an equally bad contract to get rid of him, or pay a large chunk to ship him to another team.
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 1, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but options are nice to have.
NTC’s take options away.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both Lilly and Ohlendorf
Were bailed out several times by home plate ump Wally Bell’s huge strike zone. This isn’t to excuse the horrible play on offense and defense, but before anyone starts to give the Cy Young to either pitcher, they’d be well-served to check out where some of those strike calls actually were.
Ugly, ugly game.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 30, 2009 9:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I always took offense to...
the Cubs being referred to as the “Lovable Losers” but that looks like a step up now. There is nothing lovable about this team. Or this season. I don’t know if tonight was rock bottom but I certainly hope so.
by peyton5609 on Jun 30, 2009 9:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a very unlikeable team
It is hard to root for THIS Cub team. This is the furthest thing from something you would attach the Luvable Loser tag.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.....
I refuse to make any more comments other than that was one of the most disgusting losses I’ve seen in a while. Unfortunatly, I’ve thought that a lot lately….
It better happen...
by Chicago White Sux on Jun 30, 2009 9:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sounds like it was a fast game, and no fun to watch.
I caught Soto’s baserunning blunder on the radio, but missed the rest of it.
Get ’em tomorrow, and they take the series. That would be nice.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 9:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey everyone:
Is there a post game show on WGN 720 tonight? I tried to tune it in via their online site, but it’s still playing the extension stream…
by hmlee on Jun 30, 2009 9:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2009 is over for the Cubs
There, I said it. This season is worse than 2004. There is no more hope left. When a team fails to cease upon fine starting pitching for the bulk of two months, then your season is destined to go down in great disappointment.
What an unmitigated disaster this has become. Jim Hendry’s successor will take several years to unwind this clusterfu*k.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jun 30, 2009 9:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jim Hendry...
….sadly, is not going anywhere.
We’ll be lucky if he’s NOT promoted to V.P.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ricketts will clean house
Kenney, Hendry and Piniella will all be gone with a new owner.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jun 30, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will depend on the timing...
…of when the sale closes, as to when they bring their own people in.
If this thing drags on any further, they may keep everyone for one more year because they won’t have time to let their own people get ready for 2010. I hope this doesn’t happen, because the longer this organizational philosphy is in place, we will continue to see leaks spring up all over the ship.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time to pay the piper
Jim Hendry has been allowed to try and spend his way to glory. Well, that strategy has horribly backfired. You can’t move Soriano, Kosuke or Bradley. All you can do is wait in agony for those contracts unwind.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jun 30, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm buying this club...
…and there are no playoffs, I ain’t going to be real happy about the deadwood that I am stuck with.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My gut...
…is telling me the samething. I know on paper they are only one good spurt away from being right there, this team just doesn’t seem to have it.
I would not be surprised if the Cubs are at least 6-7 games out at the deadline and going south instead of north. It will be very difficult for Hendry to concede they are sellers, and also to be able to get much of value because of so many issues in trading their established players (no-trades, high contracts, under performing players, etc.).
The last two months look like they could be a very slow burn towards the end for this regime and probably several of the players.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Witness!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 30, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey - saw your last note on that "other" topic
FWIW, I’m still not embarrassed about being angry at that person’s ravings and nor should you be. However, I’m not angry anymore . . . I honestly don’t think that person can help that person’s self . . .
Man, the Cubs suck.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've been saying it
since April, IIRC.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love this stupid team
I keeep coming back every damn day. I keep being frustrated by this team. The hardest part of being a fan is the powerlessness of the whole thing. That is the hard part for most of us. We play Manager, GM, shit, we even play each of the 9 positions better, in our minds, than the 25 guys who are paid to do it. It is part of being a fan. It is just sad. Horribly sad.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
That is what the hardest part for me, is the fact I can do ABSOLUTELY nothing to change whats going on
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is horrible, each and every damn day.
I drive for work so much that I have to listen to stupid sports radio that makes my day even more frustrating.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see
I totally stay away from the sports radio. Only makes me more pissed off.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sports radio has nothing to do with sports
and everything to do with talking points designed to drive up ratings so the network can sell more ads. See: Cowherd, Colin.
by CaliCub on Jun 30, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
ESPN is a joke in general. After I cancelled my cable and put a CD player in my car, I realized how much better it is without it.
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 1, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I gave up on being able to listen to sports radio a while ago
I can only occassionally listen to WGN’s sports programming.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow. listening to 670 makes me want to punch my brains out.
It’s the flagship station of Sox but i don’t think bashing the Cubs every opportunity is really warranted. Crap after crap after crap, i don’t know why i keep listening but damn Dan McNeil is annoying as hell.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jun 30, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But even in the best of times, when they're winning out the wazoo, there was ABSOLUTELY nothing you could do to change what's going on
not that you would want to, but my point is…
you as an individual have absolutely no bearing on the team’s success or lack thereof, save whatever relatively abysmally thin slice of revenue your spending on the Cubs represents to the team.
So being a fan isn’t about influencing what the team does – it’s about following that team through thick and thin, up and down, or in the case of this season, down and down… Obviously doesn’t mean you have to like it when they suck, but maybe if you accept the fact that control and influence isn’t part of the equation, then you can focus on the other aspects and perhaps deal with it better. That might shave a few points of your blood pressure…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've said for years
that success has spoiled us to a degree and given us hope for a WS. Before 1984, in our hearts, we knew there was no hope, so we didn’t hang on every pitch or at bat. We’d anxiously wait for Spring Training and the start of a new season, but by August, we weren’t watching them as much or maybe caring as much. Now, from the first pitch of ST until the last pitch of the season, we critique, ponder, play manager/GM, bitch, bitch at each other, and lose sleep over this team.
Personally, I’m glad I can’t see every game out here because my blood pressure is high enough. Even the one or two games that are televised, I don’t watch too much. I am very competitive and get worked up to a lather when they play like they’ve been playing this year. All I do now is monitor the game thread and pop in and out when I am near a computer.
I am still a huge fan, I will still go to as many ST games as I can and when they come in to lose, I mean play the D backs. I proudly display my Cubs license plate frame and stickers on my truck and wear my Cubs hat every day and take crap from the baseball fans here. I’m just not investing the same amount of time watching them stumble through the season and getting worked up,
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jul 1, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hunger strike
Maybe we should all go on a hunger strilke like the Chicago chiroprator to “shame” the Cubs into winning 5 games in a row.
wccubfan
by wccubfan on Jul 1, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey chill broski the season ain't over til it's over.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jun 30, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for BLou
the season is over before it begins.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hell, next season is already over for him
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When is Jim Hendry
going to take responsibility for his screw-ups in 2016, that’s what I want to know!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is still alot of baseball left and the season is not over--yet.
But I agree somewhat with the tone of your post. But the roster must be improved. If the Cubs were willing to eat one or two bad contracts then they could make room for a hitter in the OF and use pitching to gain that player(s). If the organization wants to win badly enough then they’ll do it, but otherwise I expect roster change from within and taking their chances that the OF players start hitting the crap off the ball.
The division is there for a number of teams to make bold moves to improve and to win. If the organization decides that money matters ore then it will be very disappointing. But with tens of thousands waiting to buy season tickets I wouldn’t be surprised if the $ prevails in 2009.
by DudeVf11 on Jul 1, 2009 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guards! Guards!
Cease him!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Reply fail
I feel like Soto, now
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 30, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ordinarily I'd offer up a correction, as in it's "Seize"
but after further reflection, perhaps you really did mean “Cease”…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 30, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's getting close to the edge
Get to the All-Star break at or around .500 and 3-5 games out. Give everyone the mental break and hope they come back with a fresh, singular focus.
But this is getting ridiculous. And annoying to watch.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I stand by my request:
Fire sale time!
Get rid of as many big contracts as possible – and don’t stop trying until EVERY door has been shut in your face.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling they won't even open the door to talk to Jim Hendry
They’ll leave the lights off and hope he goes away. Nowadays, teams rarely take these big deals even if they are being given away.
by rlpete on Jun 30, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is FIRE SALE time
I put Zambrano, Harden, Gregg, Lilly on the block. I put Lee on the block too. Nobody will take any of those outfielders, nor any of our wide ranging collection of journeyman smurf infielders.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jun 30, 2009 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...BUT
Trade those guys, or at least TRY at first, with the caveat that the lucky team who wants/needs them should eat an additional contract, or a large chunk of it (Fukudome, Bradley, etc.)
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't want.....
prospects who may or may not work out and a 80+ million dollar offseason payroll anyway, minus Z and/or Harden.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jun 30, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep hoping
Harden and Gregg could be traded.
by rlpete on Jun 30, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I try to stay away from the insults
But you’re a lunatic
by Pre on Jul 1, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this team has been Nerfed
ugh. I wait until the all star break to give up.. but damn this team is so…. so…. so… man I just cant stand watching them. they are totally uninspiring. I think its the total failure with RISP that makes it so painful. you just know they aren’t going to get it done. sorry I have nothing constructive to say. I dont see how to fix it. blow it up.
by ballstitch on Jun 30, 2009 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This season has long been over
I said it weeks ago and people scoffed at it. Absolutely nothing has changed with this club in the past few weeks, save a few AB’s by Jake Fox that have made those consistenly taken by Soriano even more embarrassing. Until and unless they figure out that Soriano needs to sit and sit often, he’s going to continue to kill the offense. As long as they keep allowing this “begging into the lineup” routine to continue, this offense will continue to be awful.
Soriano apologists mount up because you’ve got absolutely no evidence to suggest this guy has helped the club over the past several weeks. His OF play is bad, his baserunning is bad, his hitting approach and stubborness to change is worse. Is he the only problem on this sinking ship? No. Is he a major one? Absolutely. Until he sits for an extended period, this offense is doomed.
And the “playing while hurt” excuse is irrelevent. Either perform or don’t perform….nobody cares if you’re hurting. Except his blind supporters.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 30, 2009 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This season IS over
And I agree with you that for all intents and purposes it has been over for some time.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jun 30, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
You have to be COMPLETELY delusional not to see where this is headed.
I’ve certainly seen worse Cubs teams in my lifetime, but never one with this type of payroll and supposed “talent”.
I resigned myself over the weekend to the reality that I’d been trying to avoid.
I only hope Rickett’s takes over asap and starts the massive housecleaning.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Witness!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 30, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're writing all these down...
… so those “season over” people can be reminded when this team turns it around.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go ahead
Write down my name 100 times. My opinion is based entirely on my analysis of where this team is and where it’s been in 2009. I said the same thing during the “fool’s gold” come-from-behind streak against a woeful Indians club that had some on here claiming that was a turning point. The fact of the matter is…the club isn’t very good, and quite frankly, isn’t very talented despite what some are trumpeting.
And even if the Cubs come back and win the division and advance in the postseason, I could care less that my opinion would have been “wrong”. There is nothing wrong about the conclusion that can be drawn after watching these guys stumble around for three months….other than perhaps that anyone that believes this team is going to turn it around based on a Ramirez return, a regression to the mean for a whole host of players and otherwise simple good luck, might need their head examined.
An awful lot of things have to go very, very well for this club to win this division. So many in fact that any light at the end of the tunnel is dim indeed.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Therein lies a great point
And even if the Cubs come back and win the division and advance in the postseason, I could care less that my opinion would have been "wrong". There is nothing wrong about the conclusion that can be drawn after watching these guys stumble around for three months….
Sure, I hope the Cubs win the World Series. And I realize they could rip off a 12 game winning streak starting today that would make things look a hell of a lot better.
But krummy’s right — to look at the body of work to this point and think that it’s realistic is, well, not realistic.
I’m not giving up, but they’ve shown very little to be encouraged about.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
the point is that this team is playing so far under potential
that what we’re looking at is almost unreal. Sure, they could continue to stink it up for the rest of the year, but it’s just not likely.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither krummy nor I are saying that
We are saying that we reserve the right to say, “They stink”, because right now, they do.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
you and Krummy are saying two significantly different things.
You’re saying “they stink right now”.
Krummy is saying “they stink and they’ll always stink.”
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's somewhere in the middle
They stink and they are likely to continue to stink. However, I will continue to watch in the hopes that the stink will abate.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is where I'd put in an Oxy-Clean parody
but my sadness for Billy Mays is endless…
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it started out as a Seinfeld reference...
there was one episode where Jerry was making a series of bets with Kramer (I think), and George would shout out “Witness!” each time, once even from the bathroom.
But as more and more people jump on the “it’s ovah” bandwagon, yeah – I thought it’d be interesting to keep track. If the Cubs really do crash and burn the rest of the way, then these folks will have earned the right to bitch and moan all offseason and sling “I told you so’s” from the depths of hell all winter. And I for one, will try to restrain myself from too much engagement because I was a “witness” to their inverse faith.
But if the Cubs do pull off a minor miracle and make this season respectable, if not even raise another flag or two, then I want a list of all the naysayers and gloomers. I don’t think I’ll do the “I told you so” dance, but if these folks start to their own version of “I knew it all along”, then I will probably throw out a few gentle reminders of their inverse faith.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you actually
keeping track? :D
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for what purpose?
to say “I told you so?” The individuals on this board who have expressed doubts about this team’s prospects for the rest of the season – most anyway – are making these statements not out of some exercise in self-punishment, but because we’ve seen enough iterations of the Cubs (both good and bad) to be able to make an educated analysis.
The team has terrible chemistry. Granted, losing teams (or those performing well under expectations) rarely have great chemistry and winning cures a lot. But barring any significant transactions the flaws of this team are glaring, and while things such as situational hitting can turn around the flaws I’ve listed below (again barring any transactions) are not going to suddenly and magically disappear:
1) NO Team speed
2) NO plate discipline or ability to draw walks
3) Mediocre at best team power
4) Erratic bullpen
In this division it may not take much of a run to win it, but that will not change my opinion that this team is ill-conceived, poor in execution and to this point a complete displeasure to watch on a nightly basis. That was thing thing about last year. Sure it sucked that we laid an egg in the playoffs, but part of being a fan is enjoying watching the team play on a daily basis, and last year was a genuine pleasure. This team makes multiple physical, mental and managerial errors in nearly every game.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Jul 1, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty good analysis
thanks
The journey is the reward!
by wicubfan on Jul 1, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm almost with you
But there is SOME team speed and SOME plate discipline. Bradley apparently has been criticized for being too disciplined.
I agree with the rest of what you said.
by elgato on Jul 1, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I’ve pointed it out several times…I find this board to be about opinions and observations and I could absolutely care less whether mine are “right” or “wrong”. There is no silver lining of “I-told-you-so’s” waiting for any of us at the end of the year that will make the Cubs losing any sweeter.
I have major doubts about this club, I’ve pointed them out with regularity and they have yet to show they ability or talent necessary to work out of them. That is simply the reality of the situation. Do I hope they win? Absolutely. Am I holding my breath that they can turn it around? Not right now…nothing indicates that whatsoever.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boy
it sure looks that way. Shame this division is weak, however the Cubs seem not up for the challenge. They appear to lack the belly to fight and get through this.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 30, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slow as always
They’re saying it should be wrapped up by the end of the season now.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The season is not over
the season isn’t over till you’re mathematically eliminated. You may choose to give up. I don’t. But hey, you’re a real pip.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
its not even half way through the season and everyone else in our division is as big of a joke as we are. if you people think the season is over then why the hell do you come here? do you really have nothing better to do. wow get it together people
by Glacier on Jul 1, 2009 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the season's over
Can these people stop coming here to bitch about how the season’s over?
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 1, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ignore it
If you don’t like the opinions based entirely on observation of this season, ignore it. It’s not as if you’re not capable of doing so…you’re apparently of the belief that the Cubs will come back and win this division despite ignoring what to this point has been a horrible, horrible season of bad baseball.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, actually I don't think they will win the division
But I don’t know, and I’m not going to endlessly complain about something I don’t know. If the season is over, why come here to remind everyone else that it’s over after every single loss? Just pack it in and start thinking about the Bears.
Like Drew said, until they are mathematically out of it, I won’t call it a season despite my reservations of the team’s actual ability to win.
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 1, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
granted. but it is true that this team sucks.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 1, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the season CAN be over
before a team is mathematically eliminated. If the Cubs are 20 out on Aug. 1, I’d say the season is over.
by elgato on Jul 1, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that
Soriano talked Lou into starting as opposed to Fuld. I’m wondering if there is any way that Piniella will actually look at the numbers and try being proactive. One question. Do we have a lefty BP pitcher? I recall when Baker was managing the team that they didn’t have one for a good part of the season until the fans and media found out and they went and got one. Our stats vs LHP are terrible, particularly our LHB. Just wondering if the team sees any in BP.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 30, 2009 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marshall
Is our lefty in the ’pen. Unless you want them to call Cotts up, again.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Jun 30, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was asking about a
Batting practice pitcher.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 30, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where
did you hear that?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Either
Brenly or Kasper mentioned it at the beginning of the broadcast,
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jun 30, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
Can’t remember who either
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 30, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about speed grass? Do we have speed grass?
by DudeVf11 on Jul 1, 2009 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, smokes too quick
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The season isn't over. But I see little hope.
Unless they can swing a deal for a competent MI, but I don’t know who or how.
Things I’m tired of:
People claiming Hendry is powerless. He put himself in that situation.
Piniella’s shoulder shrugs.
Soriano batting leadoff.
Soriano’s defense.
Soriano.
Fukudome’s approach to hitting.
Soto’s defense on pitches in the dirt.
Hendry thinking short second basemen are gold.
Hendry thinking 12 pitchers is a good idea.
Hendry fascinated with Notre Dame.
Hendry.
We keep looking to see if the Cardinals or Brewers lose. So what? I don’t think the Brewers have good enough starting pitching to win, but they should have enough to hold off the Cubs.
Most teams get RISP with less than 2 out and you wonder how they will score. The Cubs do it and you wonder how they won’t.
This team isn’t as unlikeable as 2004, because they were a bunch of jerks. This is just a poorly constructed, poorly executing and poorly led team.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Hateable Losers?
If anybody writes a book with this title, I should get credited.
by Mapmaker on Jun 30, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. The better term is Loathable Losers (see 2004 Cubs for the definition).
by DudeVf11 on Jul 1, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not bad . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Theriot's inability to play fundamental basebal
Like tagging runners properly
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you gave me hell in Apr/May........
when I said Sori’s defense sucked, he’s not a lead off hitter, he’s lackadaisical and on and on.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jun 30, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prove it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah......
We both know I right
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 1, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 1, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, your not
I know your rude, abrasive, and well, Al’s asked us not to say what else you are.
Your claims are false, which is why you can’t prove them.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's was your style then and is now......personal attacks
That’s all you and a few others did to me weeks ago when I pointed out Lee’s and Soriano’s lack of production. I disagreed and you and others pounced….and you wonder why I was rude and abrasive? I think you knew damn well what you were doing and I reacted in kind. Your memory has failed you my friend.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 1, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Several points
1) You say you did it, I say I didn’t. The burden of proof is on you.
2) I’ve already wasted more of my time on this than it is worth; I’m done unless you have something substantive.
3) Those aren’t personal attacks. Those are observations.
4) I am most certainly not your friend.
Good day.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My response to your points
1) read your #2
2) and so have I
3) observations become attacks when directed to alleged offender
4) thank god
Good afternoon
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 1, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, I've got 30 seconds free.
You still don’t get it.
You make statements like, “I’m right and you know it” and you don’t expect a response in kind.
Your third point is so ridiculous, I don’t know where to start.
Finally, go read your own #2.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point ........without being rude is..............
you did get on me, although not maliciously, when I disagreed with other regulars about Sori and Lee. It wasn’t a big deal, and the only reason I brought it up is because you seem to agree with me now. I didn’t say something like hey dude, your wrong and I told you so. I tried to keep it civil as I gave you a little ribbing. Your the one who took it to another level and posted your perceived observations of me. Lighten up, this blog isn’t that damn important in the scheme of things.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 1, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I apologize for misreading your tone
And for offending you.
I really don’t recall getting on you for that, though.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No big deal.............
I overreacted, but I took a lot of grief a couple of months ago.
Sorry….
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 1, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I overreacted as well
As I said yesterday, I like to think I’m good about that, but I’m certainly not perfect.
Consider it forgotten.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
same here.....thanks
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 1, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta agree with you, Shanghai
I’d love to be proven otherwise but… this season’s toast.
by Emelie on Jun 30, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Em... not you too?
Oh well, (shrug) Can’t play favorites so I have to do it to you too…
Witness!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rec'd to make it alter hue.
I agree, but reserve the right to drive the bandwagon with a 4 game win streak.
The only hope is for Bradley to produce to his career averages, Soriano to heat up, Soto to play more consistently like the 08 version, and Ramirez to not just be 80%, but actually produce to 80%.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, again, it's still possible.
It’s just not looking so good right now.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two weeks ago I
mentioned the outfield play was the key, and I am sure there are others who felt the same way. The 3 who start for the Cubs really are the main issue with this team.
1. Hendry has invested like Bernie Kosar on those 3. I was in favor of Soriano, but he is looking like a 39 year old outfielder.
2. Dome, in all honesty is just not that good, nice glove, but his approach at the plate is horrible.
3. Bradley, who I never wanted on this team, will most likely end up with numbers he usually has, .265, 15 HR’s, 55 RS, and 60 RBI’s
All this for 200 million dollars, You can live with middle infielders that are average offensively, but to have an outfield like the Cubs have, is inexcusable.
Just can’t wait to see them in the Outfield for the 2010 season.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 30, 2009 9:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fwiw...
They aren’t making 200 million dollars this season. That would be a record.
If you’re gonna use the totalality of their contracts as a barameter, it would make sense to use their entire performance during the course of that contract. Which helps Soriano since he’s been awesome for parts of it….
We’ll have to wait and see all in all…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 30, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And why is it
everytime I make some post you and Drew rebut every comment I make, its rather funny
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's certainly not my intention (to reply to every one of your posts).
As I could see that would be annoying. If I do reply to something, it’s usually because it’s presented well and worth discussing. I try and ignore the imbecilic stuff. But I’m definitely not trying to nay-say every one of your posts, so I’ll keep an eye open for my doing that.
I just meant that while I agree our outfield is essentially a waste of money right now, their contracts can’t really be judged untli they’ve expired. I meant it as a more tangential comment.
Your larger point I agree with. Sorry.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 30, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This says it all, I can't describe it better myself:
I usually don’t read the Trib, but this time he nailed it!
Let’s hope for a great month of July!!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-01-morrissey-jul01,0,3182890.column
by jthack on Jun 30, 2009 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
except for the part
about how Bradley is benched — he’s not — and how Lou should play RJ full time (o.0) and…
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the risk of tipping my hand
what does “o.0” mean?
by CaliCub on Jun 30, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're eyes
STARING EYES!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, you mean like Ryan Braun!
makes perfect sense now.
by CaliCub on Jun 30, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Braun would be O.O, but yes. :P
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ryan braun has huge eyes?
i never noticed (extreme sarcasm)
by murphymj on Jun 30, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, CaliCub, I'll take over from here... So why are they different sizes?
If they’re staring eyes, wouldn’t it be more accurate to use o.o (or O.O in the case of Braun)? Seems like o.0 only makes sense if you’re talking about Forest Whitaker…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
it means because one eyebrow is raised?
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
by CyberCyclist on Jul 1, 2009 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just use the internet meme
I don’t question it. DO NOT QUESTION THE STARING EYES!
o.0
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least our line-up has gotten more left handed.
Thanks Jim
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on Jun 30, 2009 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I moved to Philly so to watch the Cubs, I got MLB.com. I think the Cubs should refund my money. Only D. Lee is hitting about what is expected. Theriot stopped hitting to right. There’s never a bunt. Defense sucks. Relievers suck. Only the starters are doing their job. But then again I’m not telling anybody what they don’t see themselves. Pinella should have been gone once they confirmed that he’s without thought.
by Rainman9856 on Jun 30, 2009 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We don't have one single superstar. Which is fine
if the payroll wasn’t over $100 million.
by Mapmaker on Jun 30, 2009 9:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We HAVE superstars...
just not ONE player that the opposition fears.
Compare this to the Cards, Phillies, Dodgers, Brewers.
VEry, very sad.
In 2006, I had a hard time GIVING my season tickets away to anyone by July.
I pray this doesn’t happen again this year. Please…please…please…
by The E-Man on Jun 30, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aramis Ramirez is that guy who is feared.
Even at 90%, he’ll help.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a team just shut out by the Pirates...
…it’s gonna take a whole hell of a lot more than ARam to score some runs.
"Let's not get giggly." - Lou
by tdubcub on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to explain how a team with this payroll...
…competes for the cellar of the division. I’m not going to call the season done, but I think heads will roll in the offseason. You can pretty much kiss Jim Hendry goodbye. His failure this season eclipses everything he has done for this team.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bring back the '77 Cubs.
It was fun while it lasted and didn’t cost $130M. 25 over at ASG, ended up 81-81.
Herman we miss you!
by Employee22 on Jun 30, 2009 9:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kingman came the year after
They could’ve used him in the second half of ’77.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The year I came aboard the Cub Fan Express
Lots of tough seasons over the past 32 years, but there’s been a lot of fun too.
by CaliCub on Jun 30, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be great to
do internet shots with any of you who would be up for it.
Just one – then I’m crashing…
lol
by The E-Man on Jun 30, 2009 9:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
3 - 0 Astros
5th Place? Really?
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What becomes really difficult
is for a team to climb over four or five teams to get to first.
There is still plenty of time, but recent play instills (obviously) zero confidence in me.
by The E-Man on Jun 30, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's plenty of time? I might be able to believe that...
if i wasn’t seeing the evidence of my own eyes; a lethargic, underachieving team that already seems to be playing out the string.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
I’m done…
Later everyone.
A home stand is coming.
Bears should be exciting this year, at least.
by The E-Man on Jun 30, 2009 9:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brewers just won
So we are 4.5 out. Cards 2 back. Reds 3.5 back. Astros, if they win, will be 4 out. Pitts 6 out.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 9:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A big question on my mind
If this team is in the cellar in August, will Hendry just fire Lou Piniella to save face? I get the feeling that he doesn’t have much longer out there even though this is not all his fault.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Firing him in when we're in last place in August won't serve any purpose...
…because it’ll be too late to make any significant difference.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I said it would be saving face
If he fired Piniella now and it helped the team, I wouldn’t complain. It’s obviously starting to get out of hand and if Aramis Ramirez weren’t coming back, I’d say fire the guy yesterday. It’s not all on him, but players have gotten managers fired before by not playing good baseball.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry is on shaky ground...
…right now, and firing a manager who has been around a long long time (in mid-season) and has had a good degree of success, will clearly show how desperate he is to pass the buck. If he did that, and it backfired (which it probably would), he would be solidifying the fact that he has too many flaws to be a good GM.
In the back of Hendry’s mind, I’ll guarantee he has had thoughts about his next gig, and he is probably hoping it won’t be limited to being a scout.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the point
he would be trying to pass the buck, and who could blame him. As it’s been said frequently, this is not all Lou’s fault. But managers get canned when teams are bad, whether or not they could have done anything.
I think he does. And Hendry is gone the day after the sale. Even if it’s the day before opening day next year.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 30, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who could blame him?
It would be one thing if Hendry canned a manager who didn’t have an established career like Piniella, but it’s much riskier (for Hendry’s future and reputation) to send someone packing mid-season, who has a pretty long track record of success.
This is the exact reason Baker was allowed to finish his contract. The guy did nothing but win during his managerial career before Chicago, and Hendry wasn’t going to (and he did the right thing) hang him out to dry when it wasn’t the manager’s doing.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However...
… Baker’s last team didn’t have the talent that this one does and everyone knew it. Firing him would have been pointless. No interim manager could have done anything with the 2006 team.
Maybe someone else COULD do something with THIS team, a team whose manager appears to have quit on them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you posted that line-up the other day
I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 1, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure this team is more talented than Dusty's last Cubs team, as Al says.
They’re not playing like they are, at least. To me, this is a bad team, with a lot of holes.
by Fraggin Judge on Jul 1, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team is way more talented than the '06 Cubs.
First, the offense. Soriano, Fukudome, and Bradley haven’t had good seasons, but they’re unquestionably more talented as a group, if not all individually, than Murton, Pierre, and Jacque Jones. The ‘06 Cubs were so bad they had to start Ronny Cedeno at short all year as he was posting a .610 OPS. Even the most fervent Theriot hater would rather have Ryan than Ronny. After Lee’s injury they had John Mabry and Phil Nevin at first base. Nevin wasn’t so bad, Mabry was terrible.
The pitching is where it really sticks out, though. Starters: Zambrano, the old version of Maddux, the rookie version of Marshall, Rich Hill (who actually pitched OK that year), the starter versions of Marmol and Guzman, Juan Mateo (who in 10 starts managed something like 45 innings), a few games of post-hope Prior and Wood. The rotation this year is far better. The bullpen situation wasn’t as bad as the starting situation that season… but the pitching overall in 2006 gave the team no chance.
by aldimond on Jul 1, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what I'd love to do
is take a transporter pod from the Fly and meld Cedeno and Riot together, so that the resulting Rydeniot would have Cedneo’s defense and Riot’s bat.
And then, I’d cut off Rydeniot’s legs, so that he would never attempt to steal.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And stay under Hendrey's maximum hight requirements for middle infielders.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 1, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need 1 more player
Neither has a brain. At least not for baseball.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
crap x 2 = crap
Theriots sub 100 ops+ bat?
no thanks.
I was told that I ruined this house with my anger
by tempchad on Jul 1, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's always possible another manager...
…could find that short term “lightning in a bottle”, but there is a better chance he won’t.
Again, IMO it would be simply masking the real issues this organization needs to fix, but I realize it is the immediate satisfaction a lot of people seek.
We’ll see if Hendry is willing to go down that road.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 1, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 09 team...
…was better (on paper) coming out of Spring training, but that is never a guarantee of better play on the field.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 1, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i don't think the cubs should fire piniella.
he’s won division titles the last two years. now he’s had a couple bad months. his attitude is a little annoying, but i don’t think he needs to be fired.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 1, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's even more scary
is that I just got back from Iowa Cubs game here in Texas and that offense is just as bad, if not worse, then what’s in Chicago. Hendry needs to go for what he has put together.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 30, 2009 9:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have to believe that if Ricketts (or whoever) has a clue...
…they completely overhaul everything including the minor league system.
Too bad Dallas Green isn’t ten years younger. He came into a similiar situation in ‘81 (a last place team with a horrendous minor league system) and had a division champ within three years. Of course he wasn’t dealing with teh bloated salaries that Hendy negotiated.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Stone for GM!
I am entirely serious. Bring on the criticism, but Stoney knows more about baseball and what it takes to win than almost anyone else out there.
by murphymj on Jun 30, 2009 9:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stone as GM?
No way. I give Hendry a pass for simply being incompetent despite Forrest Gumping his way to back to back division titles. Stone? I just don’t like him.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flagged for Stupidity
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i do realize it is a ridiculous request
but a man can dream. i like steve stone
by murphymj on Jun 30, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i do too.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 1, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stone wouldn't last a month...
…in any formal capacity in baseball management, believe me.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I have written about this many times. Talking glibly about baseball on TV and being in baseball management are two very different jobs. Being qualified at the first does NOT qualify you for the second.
Just ask Hawk Harrelson.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawk Harrelson can talk glibly?
I need to re-adjust the vertical hold on my TV set. I am not seeing this.
by vonde6 on Jul 1, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't want it
he didn’t want it back after the broadcasting dust-ups, he certainly doesn’t want it now.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 30, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stone did want a front office gig...
…for a long time and was doing everything he could to get one. It wasn’t until he realized no one would hire his genious, that he finally gave up on it.
What he fails to realize, or acknowledge are the reasons no one would hire him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Stone is...
a genuine moron. Period end of story. He thinks he knows everything, but everything and everyone knows he is just a former baseball player.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jul 1, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the bright side is
all the ledge-jumpers will be gone from this place after tonight, and the boards won’t be reading like mass suicide notes day after day. So that’s good.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously????
Are you seriously telling me that you think those guys will be gone? Every night until it is over.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, no
but a guy can dream, can’t he?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A guy can dream about...
…a lifetime supply of beer. Dreaming about Stone as GM is a nightmare to me.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter because it will never happen
I jusy hope that Ricketts (assuming he’s the new owner) gets an experienced baseball man in here (like a pat Gillick or a Billy Beane).
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we have an experienced baseball man
we need someone fresh
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 30, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with young ideas
like evaluating and valuing players based on statistical performance instead of scrappiness and athleticism and what side they throw/bat from.
by CaliCub on Jun 30, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not disagreeing with you
The problem is where to find a guy like that. Theo Epsteins aren’t exactly in large supply
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true enough
What about recruiting someone from the Twins or Rays or Angels? Those are organizations that have a solid reputation for producing a steady stream of young talent, even if they don’t practice the Moneyball philosophy.
by CaliCub on Jun 30, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have always been a "cream rises to the top" kind of guy, but...
has the league figured out Soriano? That is what it appears to be, but he has been in the league too long to fall apart completely. Unless….., well unless he was on….NOOOO. Couldnt be.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not a fan of those type of accusations, but the numbers he put up, during the time period he put them up....
it is pretty freakin weird. The decline is sooooo rapid.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes because...
…a player has never declined in his 30’s before. I can honestly say I’ve seen 50 year old men in MLB blasting 500 ft. home runs no problem because people don’t decline in their 30’s unless they’ve used steroids.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not arguing. Im trying to understand the situation
Decline doesnt happen in a month or two.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When every player declines on schedule
People are going to start talking steroids. Gotta love the lack of logic involved in those thoughts.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On schedule???
He was a 40/40/40 guy 3 seasons ago. He cant hit the ball square anymore.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please
30 years old vs. 33 years old. That can be a huge difference.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed dude
I am in complete agreement. I am trying to say that his decline happened in a 2 month period of time.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
Try having frequent injury issues since the 40-40 season. Soriano hasn’t played more than 150 games since 2006, the same year he had his 40-40 season. My guess is that his decline is coupled with those injury issues catching up with him.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody shoud've explained the whole "aging" thing to our GM
before he signed this guy to a lifetime contract.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess that Soriano never
was on anything…how could one stay so skinny? Most ‘roid users got bigger — even Bret Boone, who to me — flew under everybody’s radar, while on ’roids — got somewhat bigger. he attributed that to “better nutrition and better workouts.” That, from an old Playboy magazine article….after he went nuts at the plate with the Mariners.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 30, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.
But from what I’ve read, there are various different types of “steroid bodies” depending on your training regimen, etc. I’m not saying he was on anything but his being skinny doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Soriano owed his success to
It wasn’t PEDs. He has incredible bat speed and when he was younger, he was a major threat on the base paths. Now he’s 33 and he’s had problems with his legs for the last few years. He had his hand broken by a pitch last season. He also hasn’t played a full season since 2006, which tells how you much time he’s spent on the DL since coming to Chicago. Soriano does need to make adjustments and I’m not saying he doesn’t. He’s mired in a major slump and yes, he has been declining statistically if you look at OPS+. The sample sizes are small, but this season may very well prove what I’ve observed about Soriano.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 1, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His seeming unwillingness to make adjustments
is what is so infuriating.
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 1, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to wonder if it's not unwillingness
but being unable.
If it’s the first, he should be sit down and asked quite simply, why do you think what you’re doing is going to work, why not try these adjustments, and if he won’t, keep him sitting.
But if it’s the second, well, it’s going to stay ugly
by chitownhawkeye on Jul 1, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's another statistical tracker for you all
It’s called isolated power. That statistic peaked in 2006 where he had a .283 ISO. It was .261 in 2007 and .252 last season. Guess what it is this season? A lousy .193. One example to remember is Dale Murphy, who couldn’t get his ISO above .200 after 1987. He was 31 that season and by age 33, his ISO was a meager .132. I’m not surprised because we’ve all seen these collapses before.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 1, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read something about 2 years ago from a statistician
that wasn’t one of the BCB stats gurus, maybe from STATS, but anyway, he said that the magic number for hitters was the age of 32. That was their last good offensive year and it was a falloff every year after that. FWIW.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jul 1, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Keep in mind that I’m also a New Orleans Saints fan. You’ve got to be a fan to like both those teams.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm here everyday
60-102 or WS Champs
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
Hopefully WS champs, but it’s okay if they’re not because there’s always next year. Hope springs eternal.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. There Is ALWAYS next year.
Yes it sucks going through the shit, but I’m not going to litter up the boards with ignorance
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why don't you simply let people speak their mind?
instead you accuse them of total ignorance as if you know every little bit of information about the the league. just let people vent. i’m sure you have been wrong at least some point in your life. hopefully for your sake there wasn’t someone right there to point out your flaws and belittle your thoughts
by murphymj on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's more to life than baseball
Just keep that in perspective. A lot of people are on hard times right now.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right about that
Unfortunately, for a lot of us, baseball is an escape from the harsher realities…but, yes, a little perspective never hurts.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had steady work
Not so with other members of my family. I’ve been lucky that I’ve been able to maintain my standard of living and while baseball is an escape, it’s not my only escape. I’d honestly like to see the Cubs do well. The LSU Tigers winning the CWS was great for me since I am a grad student here at LSU, so I did have something to pick up my mood this year.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jun 30, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been wrong tons of times
and I admit mistakes with no problem.
There is a big difference between someone sharing intelligent thoughts about their frustrations and someone who spats off mindless babble. I will and always will call someone out on that.
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
but when that very, very special group of Cubs wins the whole thing, I’d like to be young enough to enjoy it. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 30, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a poll?
How many of us are alive when this actually happens?
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Jun 30, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm at the point now
where I’m fairly satisfied if the Cubs can field a competitive team from wire to wire.
Unfortunately, this doesn’t seem like the year for that.
At least it’s going to be an interesting off season.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is my feeling too.
i just want to be in it wire to wire. the playoffs area crapshoot, just look at the 06 cardinals. but i hate the years when the cubs are basically out of it pre-break. sadly, this might be one of those years.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leaving...
The hopelessly delusional or those unable to differentiate between a competitive club and a listless one even after watching games day after day for three months. I’d rather hang around the former rather than the latter, realists though they may be.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a fine line between hopelessly delusional and logically optimistic
Logic tells me we are only 4.5 back, its been this bad before, you mediate towards the mean.
This place was crazy in the beginning of 2007, but things turned. We are not eliminated, and we have a lot of games with those above left as well as full season series with the Nationals and Mets (how would you like to be a Mets fan about now).
Are we in trouble, yes. But it’s not over. Not by a long shot
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
living in saint louis
i was witness to cardinal fans going crazier than we are now when their team struggled throughout the 2006 season. that year ended pretty well for them, so i would have to agree with you that this is not over by a long shot
by murphymj on Jun 30, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. I was living in Edwardsville at the time
and you are right, people hanging from trees and flagpoles. but then guess what. OOPS! Look what we did!
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that cardinal team was so much like this cubs team
it is scary to think about. the injury issues they dealt with all year are also a lot like this team. they found a way to get into the playoffs in a weak division and finally had a full, healthy lineup to start the playoffs for the first time all season. this thing can happen
by murphymj on Jun 30, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they had TWO 8 game losing streaks and a 7 gamer in the last 3 weeks
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
by heine41 on Jun 30, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sometimes you just get lucky
lets hope lightning strikes twice and another nl central team can pull it off again this year
by murphymj on Jun 30, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, when was the last time the Cubs got "lucky"...I mean, REALLY lucky?
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jul 1, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's hard to be really lucky if you never have any real success, right?
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 1, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Math
You’re only apparent argument is that you’re hoping that math helps this team out. Mathematically they aren’t eliminated…but neither are the Nationals and Diamondbacks despite being a collective 35 games behind their respective division leaders.
Logic really dictates that I’ve seen this team for 75 games in 2009 and they are what their record says they are. Nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps there is hope that the inclusion of Ramirez will help but there are certainly no guarantees that that is an accurate forecast of improved baseball.
Yes, it’s been this bad before, and many times it’s been far worse. But I’d like to know just what exactly you see or have seen out of this club in 2009 that would lead you to believe they can not only avoid falling farther behind before the All-Star break but then going ahead and taking this division over…other than simple math of course. I’d be very interested to see what you might see that I have missed.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, logic dictates nothing of the sort.
Logic dictates that they’d be playing closer to career norms, and none of Soto, Sori, Bradley, Dome or Rami are doing that right now. Logic dictates that the Nationals and the Diamondbacks, while with small chances, do have chances.
What’s happening is that your emotions are dictating, not your logic.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly right
What’s going on with people like krummy is a lot of projection about how they feel about the team, not looking at statistics dispassionately.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 1, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kosuke looked like a complete idiot that last at-bat...
Runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out, and on an 0-1 count he tries to freaking BUNT?! What. The. F-bomb. And then of course he watches the following pitch go right down the middle for strike three. I hate singling players out when the whole team looks like shit, but man, what a completely pathetic at bat that one was.
by kanderber on Jun 30, 2009 10:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It was a tough match up for him...
…but I have been dissappointed in him as well.
I supported that fact that I thought he would rebound this year, but I really believe now that he is not an everyday major league player by any means.
It’s too bad. I don’t know if he just mentally fries out or what, but he just can’t sustain any extended periods of good play.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jun 30, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not exactly
a great matchup for him. He tried to shake it up, do something different.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 30, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome
hitting .200 against Lefties, great matchup?
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 30, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is why I said
“not exactly a great matchup”
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read to fast
my bad.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jul 1, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's doing something different, and then there's doing something moronic
trying to bunt was moronic
by WanderingWanderer on Jul 1, 2009 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way I would have bunted during that AB...
… would have been a suicide squeeze attempt on the first pitch. That might have worked.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even that would have been poor strategy
LH batter (catcher can see the runner unless it’s Geo Soto catching), down by 3 with one out in the 8th.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs