Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: RSL Soapbox for Real Salt Lake Fans!

Cubs teammates show support for Sosa



Derrek Lee (link) and Kerry Wood (link) voiced their support for Sosa in separate articles in the Trib today.

Star-divide

First, from Lee:


But first baseman Derrek Lee believes the Cubs organization should pay tribute to Sosa with a day in his honor after the retirement becomes official, as it did with Greg Maddux.

"I think he carried this franchise a long time," Lee said. "I think it would be fitting. Obviously he has had the [steroid] allegations against him, but nothing has been proven. I think you have to do something for him. "The guy was the franchise for a long time, put up Hall of Fame numbers, and put fans in the seats."

-snip-

Should Sosa be elected to the Hall of Fame in spite of the suspicions?

"His numbers [say so]," Lee said. "Nothing has been proven. I don't think you can keep him out just on the assumption. I guess you have the corked bat stuff [from 2003], but that's all you have that's proven against him. I think if you look at the numbers, he's easily a Hall of Famer."

From Wood:


Asked about the Hall of Fame credentials of ex-Cub Sammy Sosa, Wood said:

"Sammy never failed a drug test, never got caught up in any of that stuff and there's no evidence that anybody has against him that he did something wrong. As his teammate for many years, he's one of the guys I remember who came in and was prepared to go every day. What he did in his career was amazing and he deserves some credit for it, I think."

It's not quite the ringing endorsement that Lee gave Sosa, but this is huge coming from Woody. From what I've heard there's no love lost between him and Sosa and rumor has it that he was the one who destroyed Sosa's boombox. Wood was with the Cubs during Sosa's peak years and is classy enough to not let his personal feelings towards Sosa affect his recognition of how valuable Sosa was to the team and baseball in general during those years.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

1 recs  |  Comment 106 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Listen despite anything negative with him

He had us watching baseball. In NY we had breaking news everytime he was at-bat.

It was fun and its a time I’ll never forget. Let’s remember the good days with Sammy Sosa!

by ak123 on Jun 5, 2009 8:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Classy

Classy by both.

Particularly by Kerry. It’s no secret that the 2 didn’t get along very well but Kerry has said at the convention that he thought Sammy helped take some pressure off him in 98 his rookie year taking away a bit of the media glare and pressure or something like that (it was a long time ago forgot his exact words but they were along those lines).

Going to see the Sox tomorrow. Will cheer on Kerry if we see him.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Jun 5, 2009 8:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Also

I don’t think people realize what a tough situation Cubs management is in as far as deciding whether or not to do anything special for Sammy.

Jay is our Quarterback. I REPEAT JAY IS OUR QUARTERBACK. Did I mention we have a Quarterback who happens to be named Jay?.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Jun 5, 2009 8:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

they are really at a crossroad about it.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 5, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it'll be a lot easier to do something 5-6 years from now, or even longer.

Look how long Fergie Jenkins and Ron Santo had to wait to get their jersey retired. I think 25 years ago, the situation will be a lot less controversial.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 5, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

It will take time for this to all shake out. I think we all have to wait and see.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 6, 2009 5:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

and if Sandberg waited, so can Sosa

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good for both of them.

Sosa SHOULD get a day. His jersey should be retired.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 5, 2009 9:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

maybe a day

but i see no reason to retire his number. not yet anyway.

It's not about money. It's about winning and getting over the hump. We've had the appetizer now, but we left the main course on the table.
-rod beck

by laidbackliam on Jun 6, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok...

… but I’d love to know the honest truth on Sosa from the mouth of former teammates like Sandburg, Maddux, Girardi and others. Sosa is water under the bridge and Wood and Lee aren’t going to come out and say anything bad about him.

by dmlichte on Jun 5, 2009 10:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude, it's Ryne SANDBERG!

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 5, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carl didn't play with Sosa?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he may have

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sosa can wait his turn

Just like a lot of guys had to. If, in 20 years, there is still sentiment to retire his number, then fine.

But not yet. I still remember the walkout. I still remember the feeling I had when cork showed in his bat. I still remember the me-first.

Not yet, Sammy.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 5, 2009 10:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

20 years? I really enjoy your unbiased opinion.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 5, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see some people are still interested in hatchet jobs

The whole me-first thing is a media creation. Being selfish in baseball is the same as helping your team. By trying to “amass stats” you are providing production for your team. It is a game of a collection of individual events, the better the individual performs the more he helps his team.

I don’t know Sammy’s personality, but his performance on the field shouldn’t be dismissed as selfish.

Two incidents like the corked bat and the walkout shouldn’t tarnish the thousands of great moments he gave us as Cubs fans.

Coleslaw, it's what's for Picnic.

by Madlarkin on Jun 6, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I was at the corked bat game, in the CF bleachers. I can tell you by first hand account that no one around me thought any less of Sammy that evening. All of us wondered why an RBI was taken away. Afterwards, all his bats were examined, none of the other bats contained cork. It has only been over the intervening years that that evening has become such a big deal. Why? Simple really, after Sammy left early in ’04, and the Cubs brass went out of the way to make him look bad, it was fuel for the fire, so to speak.

Further, when Sammy left early in ‘04, I thought then, and I still do now, that he left b/c he knew that more so than any other member of that team would take the fall for the failure of that season… He simply didn’t want to face it, and I don’t blame him. After all, it was a short 2 years later that Dusty was shamelessly run out of town…

For some reason, the Cubs fan base feels the need for scapegoats. It’s embarrassing really.

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 6, 2009 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Seriously???

You wondered why an RBI that was used with an illegal bat was taken away?

How drunk were you guys?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 6, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dood

at the time, no one could tell it was corked, from the stands.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 6, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. Thank you drew...

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 6, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was on the 3B side

And I couldn’t tell, but could assume from the umpire’s reaction that the bat was illegal.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he used one often

there is no way he is on ESPN before the game is over, apologizing and explaining. The fact he took resoponsibility and explained his piece THAT FAST is what leads me to believe it was a one time “oops”

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dave Kaplan (there's that name again) reported that

The Cubs were given warning by the league to get rid of any other corked bats about 1/2 hour before the clubhouse would be investigated.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have trouble believeing Kaplan half the time

and the other half wonder what he is talking about

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In this case, though

If he made that up, why would Hendry ever talk to him?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eleven years ago this month....

Sosa gave us the most prolific 30 days in MLB history. He reeled off a 20 HR, 40 RBI month. I remember the three homer in three at-bat game off Cal Eldred of the Brewers during that stretch. I think the good far outweighs the bad during Sosa’s days as a Cub.

by montecarlo on Jun 6, 2009 12:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I remember that month...

It reminded me of Andre Dawson in ’87. The electricity of it all…

by TheHawkRules on Jun 6, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason why he should be celebrated

I might be the minority on this board but I was not a die hard Cubs fan in the late 90’s. To be honest I was always a Cubs fan but didn’t get into the team until about 2002. It was hard being in NY.

That being said, I truly followed Sosa every game. I wanted to know what he did. I know I’m not alone. He brought this extra attention to the team that won’t occur until they win a World Series. Let him have his day and anyoen who doesn’t agree…just don’t celebrate.

by ak123 on Jun 6, 2009 1:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember the day he left early.

All I remember is the front page photo the next day from the security camera showing him walking away from Wrigley—an obsessed media turning on its star creation.

My memories of Sosa are that he was an absolute threat to turn the game around with one swing (Game 1, 2003 NLCS to name one). Whether he was artificially enhanced is not my concern. I do think he has been found guilty by association with that era by writers who still have their personal axes to grind.

I’d guess the Cubs will acknowledge his greatness in some measure someday. Whether Cooperstown will come calling is another matter. But Sammy was and remains for me the most electric baseball player I have ever seen.

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 6, 2009 8:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who released the video to the media?

The team handled it just as poorly.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree--see my comment further down the thread.

I know Sosa had many faults, as do we all, but it just seemed like everyone looked the other way until it all sort of fell apart in the last week of 2004. Sosa’s early exit was more like an epilogue to a chapter and book we had already finished reading, not the turning point in the story itself.

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 6, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Judging from the responses thus far

it seems as though time is changing the way many of us view Sosa. I will be particularly interested in his HoF status. He will be the first of the superstars from the era who is widely suspected of PED use, yet really has no proof against him.

It will be an interested test to see how broad of a brush the writers will use on the whole era. If I were a betting man, I would probably lay my money down that Sosa did use, but without evidence, I don’t think I could hold my suspicions against him if I were a voter.

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Jun 6, 2009 10:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

sosa

remember all the crappy cub teams sammy played with?picture watching those teams without sammy. cub fans will forgive someday. sammy deserves something.

by NOMAR on Jun 6, 2009 10:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Time heals all wounds

I was not happy with Sammy at the end and I still hold a grudge. Steriod use aside I understand why the Cubs should do something, he sold a lot of tickets to games and put baseball with the Cubs at the forefront with his HR prowess. Should he go in the hall of fame? That will take more time I believe. Should the Cubs honor him? Yes, I have no problem with them having a Sammy day.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Jun 6, 2009 10:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you really still hold a grudge after all of this time? Really? Can you take all of the

joy that he provided and sweep it all away because of one stupid selfish act. I’m sorry, but I can’t. I remember a lot of his hoemruns like it was yesterday. I remember those majestic bombs flying into the stands and Sammy taking his signature hop and trotting around the bases. I remember a lot of screaming happy fans. I barely remember the end and I certainly don’t let that rob me of all the joy I got from seeing Sammy hit.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 6, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess

I held him to a higher standard. He was a mega star. I watched every AB that I could. I marveled at each HR and every day he sprinted into RF. He was bigger than the Cubs it seemed. I just can’t beleive he was so selfish that he left the way he did. His one slefish act spoiled it for me. I expect more out of my superstars than that and I expected more out of Sammy. It tarnished the whole thing for me. But like I said, time heals all wounds. My seven step healing process now says I can support the cubs honoring him!

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Jun 6, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a human being. Even though he was a mega star, he is still a man with faults

just like any other man. I guess we differ on this one because I am not willing to let one act of selfishness rub out all of the joy he gave me. It didn’t bother me that he left early on the last day of the season. It didn’t affect the outcome of the game. He did nothing illegal and he didn’t injure anyone. I have certainly made bad decisions in the heat of frustration or desperation and I don’t expect ball players to be immune to human frailities because they happen to be professional athletes.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 6, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention

that it was pretty clear to Sosa that he was going to be the scapegoat for that season—the wheels were already in motion before he walked out that last day. My guess is he was thinking, “Fine, you want to blame me? I’ll make it easy for you.” Not the most mature act in the world, but understandable I guess.

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 6, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sosa

I’ve been a Cubs fan all my life, and I don’t look back too fondly on the Sosa era. He was a good guy, nice to the right field. I think we can (almost) all agree that despite his numbers, he was not in fact the greatest power hitter in the history of baseball. I think, by personality, he was never a Cub, in the same way many others have been.

by bigshoulders on Jun 6, 2009 12:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure what you mean by this:
I think, by personality, he was never a Cub, in the same way many others have been.

What is the personality of a Cub exactly, and what players did you have in mind?

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 6, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose that I mean that he never loved being a Cub. I am not in his mind, and I don’t claim to be. But if you look at the flags, I think I have an idea.

by bigshoulders on Jun 6, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you serious? You think Sosa never loved being a Cub?

What team were you watching during Sosa’s career?

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Jun 6, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

seriously?

he LOVED being a Cub. Wow.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 6, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, wow.

You can criticize Sammy for a lot of things, but not that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 6, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we can all agree on this point
I think we can (almost) all agree that despite his numbers, he was not in fact the greatest power hitter in the history of baseball.

Who’s been arguing this? He is however the greatest power hitter in the history of the Cubs

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Jun 6, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't honor a cheater

Hence why the Cub organization has put a million miles between themself and Mr. Sosa. Let him have the the Dominican Republic honor him by building a statute complete with bronze syringe coming out of the thigh muscle.

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

by BLou on Jun 6, 2009 12:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Gaylord Perry would like a word with you

That word is, “spitball”.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

show the evidence

or shut up.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 6, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about he just shuts up. PERIOD. No qualifiers. He is the true assclown.

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 6, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Didn't the Cubs honor Fergie Jenkins who was actually arrested on drug charges?

Fergie was a great pitcher and I’m glad the Cubs didn’t let his off the field transgressions keep them from honoring him even if it was a bit belated. I’m sure the people of the Dominican would like to honor Sosa considering all of the charity work he did to help the under-privileged in his country. Roberto Clemente was his hero and was Sammy’s inspiration to try to feed and clothe many poor Dominicans.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jun 6, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not defending BLou, but the drug issues with Jenkins are off the field

His assertion related to cheating on the field.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To clarify for you.

Being arrested on drug charges should be considered a greater offense than rumors of PED usage, in my opinion. If the Cubs can honor a player that had this kind of “character” issue then one could argue that someone who’s alleged to have committed lesser offenses should also be honored. I would also point out that in the game of baseball, players have always tried to do whatever possible to gain a competitive advantage. There are pitchers in the Hall of Fame that have admitted to doctoring the baseball and that is most certainly cheating. It was not a secret to anyone that from the 60s on the majority of players took stimulants to give them an “edge.” Baseball is not and has never been a pristine game devoid of cheaters. Baseball is the game where the players say, “If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’.” I don’t think players should cheat but they have throughout the history of this game and most likely will continue to do so. The problem with singling out some players for PED usage is that all could have used and we have no way of proving usage one way or the other. Before A-Rod was exposed most people thought he was a “clean” player. I don’t understand how people can say we should assume Sammy used but also assume Ken Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas and Jim Thome didn’t use. I assume Mike Piazza used but you don’t hear much outcry that he shouldn’t be voted into the HOF like you do with Sammy.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jun 7, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I agree with your character statement

It’s a bit nebulous — and I don’t want to open the whole Pete Rose can of worms, but — the drugs that Fergie was accused of doing (I say accused because IIRC he wasn’t convicted, not because I think he was completely innocent) don’t enhance the performance on the field and isn’t cheating per se.

I don’t condone what he was said to have done, but it’s not up to MLB to legistlate morality.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts on Sosa

He has never, ever been proven to have taken PEDs. Possible, sure, but the only accusations consist of the fact that he got bigger.

The corked bat incident was a transgression, but not one that should cancel out his career.

Wood was saying the right thing and I suspect nothing that he wouldn’t say in private. However, there’s little doubt in my mind that he held back.

Unless it’s proven that Sosa really did take steroids, I don’t see a valid argument for keeping him out of the HoF.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 12:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

One more thought

I do think the rep for being selfish is deserved. However, if that were cause for exclusion from the HoF, a lot of players would be removed.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

May I direct you to Rickey Henderson?

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Jun 6, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it is funny

a fan base that loves the Lee Elia tirade (where he rips the Cubs fans) cannot give Sammy his due.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sammy should get his day...

I think the Cubs should honor Sosa with a special day like the one he received in 1998 during his famous home run race with Mark “I’m not here to talk about the past” McGwire.

I don’t think his number should be retired. Instead, the Cubs will present Sammy with his smashed up boom-box, forever “retiring” music in the Cubs clubhouse. They’ll present him with a special commemorative mural featuring special moments of his career – the corked bat incident, getting hit in the helmet in 2003, storming out of the clubhouse in 2004.

Finally, a gift from the Cub organization – in 1998, they presented him with a new Dodge Viper. This time, the Cubs will bestow a Mini Cooper. Then Sammy will address the crowd in his Pigeon English: “Baseball been berry berry good to me!” followed by a lap around Wrigley with added security to fend off the barrage of beer bottles and trash sure to be thrown Sammy’s way.

He’ll throw out the first pitch and miss the cutoff man. He’ll sing the Seventh Inning stretch and make Ozzy Osbourne sound like Pavarotti.

What a day!

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Jun 6, 2009 1:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

this is the definition

of agree to disagree.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice job making fun of Sammy's english.

How many languages do YOU speak?

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Jun 6, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spot on.

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 6, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Check out his profile.

His name is Rev. Rafael Martinez. I’m guessing he speaks two languages, but I could be wrong. Do a bit of research before reacting.

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 6, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's lots of kids

at my son’s school with names like that, and they only speak one language. So does the kid with the italian name and the kid with the polish name.

His profile says he’s a “chicago boy”. There’s not much to read into that.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 6, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

My last name and my mother’s maiden name are both very much Italian. Yet I know a lot more Mandarin words than Italian.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I had checked it

That just makes his comment worse

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Jun 6, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there are many with similar names

who speak English only, and speak Spanish only. Either way, it does not make his entire comment about Sosa right by any means. I for one completely disagree with his assessment of what it would be like.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

The comments were over the top

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree with any of cubnational's comment.

I was just saying, maybe he does speak Spanish and English. We can’t jump to the conclusion that he doesn’t because we don’t know for a fact which is the case. That’s all I’m saying.

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 6, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think cubnational was clumsy and offensive

And while we’re at it, I’m not the biggest Sosa fan and I think he used steroids.

But I also grow very tired of the media pointing to his using a translator in Congress.

I’d like to ask people how comfortable they’d feel using Spanish if it was their second language and they found themselves under oath in a hearing before a Spanish-speaking countries’ version of Congress or Parliament.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 6, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I agree.

In that situation, you definitely want to not be misunderstood or make any statement which could be construed as misleading or intentionally deceptive.

I wish I could testify in front of Congress, though. I have a few questions of my own for those clowns.

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 6, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 rec'd

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed and rec'd

But, Worf . . . you can’t possibly both dislike someone and defend them. (The comment is sarcasm; the subject line and rec are not)

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 6, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know... shades of gray

My goal is to make someone’s head explode by the end of the day

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 6, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so you are working on a FanPost

praising Zambrano and promoting him as the Ace of the NL?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have my limits

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 6, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You had my hopes up there for a minute. I still think there's a chance

you can be lured back from the dark side.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 7, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i wasnt saying you agreed

just adding to your comment

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jun 6, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sammy's delusional fan club had better sober up to the fact that there is a snowball's chance in hell he ever gets 75% of the Hall of Fame vote

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

by BLou on Jun 7, 2009 6:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the "I'm not talking about it anymore" guy

speaks again, with nothing new to say.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sosa and the HOF

I don’t know if he will ever get voted in, but I have zero doubt he will not be a 1st ballot selection, even though his numbers would normally make a 1st ballot selection a slam dunk. I suspect (and hope) the same will happen to Bonds when his time comes.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 7, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd expect

Sosa to be a third ballot kind of guy. But his numbers are too good to ignore without actual evidence that he did something illegal (beyond the bat, which was a one-time, pretty obvious mistake, despite what some people would try to turn it into).

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And A-Rod only used roids from 2001-2003

And Rafael Palmeiro thought he was getting a B12 shot

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 7, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE.

Till you do, you have no point.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You seem to ignore the point that

election to the HOF is not a legal procedure, so evidence is not necessary. Writers can believe that Sammy used PEDs (and only a fool believes he didn’t IMO) without having actual evidence. That is why he does not get in on the first ballot, and maybe never gets in. If he doesn’t get in I won’t lose any sleep over it.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 8, 2009 9:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's a given. The term "legal procedure" has never been brought into the discussion. Writers can

believe anything they want and make their decisions on anything they want. They also have a responsibility. That responsibility is not to be taken lightly and should be based on what happens on the field and what can be proven. Pete Rose was not denied entry because there were rumors of his gambling, there was tangible proof. You don’t indict a person and deny them something like this based on feelings, rumors and inuendos. That’s why this discussion is so intense. Some people believe players are guilty just because their stats got better during this era and thus should be eliminated from consideration. Others feel that the decision should be based on more positive proof. Like a drug test.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 8, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it has been brought into the discussion

Read Drew’s posts defending Sosa. He keeps harping on the lack of evidence, as if election to the HOF is some sort of legal procedure. Evidence is irrelevant while perception means everything. Writers believe Sosa was using and that will keep him from being a 1st ballot HOFer, and may keep him out forever.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 9, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No it hasn't. No one ever said we were in a court of law. We're talking about the responsibility

of the writers. Just because someone says evidence, doesn’t mean you make the jump to a legal procedure. The baseball writers have a resposibility to vote on eligible members based on a resonable set of criteria. Of course they can vote on perception, but eventually they will be called on that.

Evidence is not irrelevent. A writer has a certain amount of credibility to maintain and casting votes based on questionable criteria will erode that credibility. If a writer places Nefi Perez on his ballot based on the fact he liked the way Nefi ran the bases, eventually that writer will not be voting for the HOF. Certainly, there are members who have stated that they will not vote for suspected PED users, but many have stated that in the absence of a positive drug test, they would have a problem excluding players based on the perception that they used PEDs. Sosa does not appear to have the votes to make the first ballot, but as time passes and more information becomes available, I suspect some stances will soften provided no negative reports about Sosa come out.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 9, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes it has.

Go back and read drew’s posts defending Sosa. He claims since there is no evidence that Sosa used PEDs, it should not be held against him. I say that is immaterial. This is not a court of law where verdicts are rendered based on evidence alone. Voting for the HOF is the court of public opinion. Hard verifiable evidence is not necessary. The writers will vote based on their belief about Sosa and PEDs. They will not be voting based on any hard evidence.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 10, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you read my post? I know this is not a court of law. Of course the HOF is based on the

court of public opinion. That opinion is shaped by what people like the sportwriters say. No one ever said that hard verifiable eveidence was a necessary requirement into the HOF, only that votes should be based on hard evidence. There have been many sportswriter who have said they will not vote for any player they suspect has used. There also have been many sportswriters who have have said that given sosa numbers and the lack of hard evidence he used, they will vote for him. I suspect that as the specter of this scandal dims, Sosa will eventually be voted into the hall.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 10, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read every single word. Twice. Any more questions?

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 11, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So clearly you comprehend his posts one way and I another.

He puts way too much emphasis on hard evidence. Voting for the HOF is not a legal procedure where verdicts are based on the hard evidence. When the writers vote, it based less on hard evidence and more on perception. It will not matter if there is no hard evidence linking Sosa to PED use. I have little doubt that willl matter to the writers who vote. Sosa has already lost in the court of public opinion.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 13, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One more time. I know that voting for the HOF is not a legal procedure were verdicts are

based on hard evidence. I will repeat it again so you won’t repeat it back to me. I KNOW THAT THE HOF IS NOT A LEGAL PROCEDURE WERE VERDICTS ARE BASED ON HARD EVIDENCE. The point of this whole excercise is that the voter have a responsibility. There voting should be based on something tangible and not totally on feelings. I thought that Mark Grace was a great ball player. I feel that he should be in the HOF. Will he get in? No. Why? He doesn’t have the numbers. Sosa has the numbers. No hard evidence exists to this day to say that he used PEDs. The court of public opinion changes. Five years is a long time. If no further proof comes out that Sosa used, I suspect that some of the hard stances will soften and he will be voted in.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 13, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

numbers used to matter

500 homeruns was a ticket to the HOF, no questions asked. But the steroid era is causing writer/voters to question the numbers. The numbers (hard evidence) does not mean what it used to. Yes, Sosa has the numbers, but he has the stench of PEDs on him, with or without hard evidence.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 13, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That stench can just as easily go away over time. You assume that the currrent

attitude of the writers will remain the same. That may or may not be true. It really depends on how much it stays in the headlines. If players stay relatively clean, attitudes can soften. I beg to differ with you, but numbers still matter. They are the yardstick for measuring a players likelyhood of becoming eligible. 600 homeruns is quite a bit different from 500 humruns. You can’t just blow off 600. Granted, the numbers don’t mean what they used to, but you still have to have a way of comparing players and deciding who is worthy and who isn’t.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 13, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The numbers used to be all that matters,

 that is not true any more and it is not likely to change any time soon. It is not a court of law based just on evidence, it is a court of public opinion as much as anything else.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 16, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Numbers still matter. They will always matter. Just because you say it,

doesn’t make it so. Numbers are how players are compared. It’s the only yardstick we have. Baseball has survived all kinds of scandals and moved on. The steroid scandal will not erase all of the accomplishments of the past and future. It’s a bump in the road that will soon be in the rear-view mirror. Public opinion only goes so far, there must be hard numbers to back up a players worth.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 16, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might want to consider

not misquoting me. I never said numbers don’t matter. I did say, however, that numbers alone do not mean what they used to mean pre-steroids.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 17, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgive for misquoting you. That was the implication I got. I will concede

that numbers alone do not mean what they used to mean. Bonds, Sosa, McGuire and Palmiero will all have more than 500 home runs and none of the four will probably make it to the HOF, so obviously numbers alone will not get you in.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 17, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I used to believe any guy who hit 500 HRs, had 3000 hits, won 300 games should be automatically inducted into the HOF because they were clearly among baseball’s greatest players if they reached one of those milestones. Sadly, I no longer believe that is valid. The numbers do not mean what they used to.

by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

I’ve been bringing up the lack of evidence to those who continue to insist that Sosa used. I think it’s wrong to convict someone based on their “era”, especially when the increase in mass can be explained by perfectly legal techniques.

I think that Sammy is a third-ballot HOF.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 9, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon
Start posting about the Cubs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Reversal of opinion...Bradley will not be moved
Yelloncard_small
Baseball Picture Puzzles Overflow 1
Derrick_rose_poster_by_rokasm_small
You know you want him, Get it done Jim!
Yelloncard_small
Baseball Player Picture Puzzles
66103_small
The Ordinary Wizarding Levels of Milton Bradley & the 2009 Chicago Cubs

Recent FanPosts

Sb_small
Ask BCB - Wacky Trade Proposals
Small
Time to get yelled at...
Cubs_small
Cubs HR Over/Under
Cubs_ying_yang_small
OT Aged Stadiums
Small
Here's a thought
Jake_fox_small
25th Annual Cubs Convention
Bucky_small
OT: Annual Thanksgiving  Thread
Dscn2381_small
Cubs 2010 2B and "the L word"
Cubswin712_small
Is there anyway we trade some of our high-priced players?
Yelloncard_small
Milton Bradley Named NL "LVP" By Joe Posnanski

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Would you blow up the farm system for Halladay?
FanGraphs calls Grabow a "waste of cash."
Fangraphs hasn't given up on Geo, should you?
Baseball America's Top 10 Cubs Prospects
An animated tribute to the no-hitter that Pirates pitcher Dock Ellis threw on June 12, 1970. Simply...

Recent FanShots

White Sox Sign Vizquel To One-Year Deal
Cubs' next major hire: marketing guru
Zambrano attends Bears game
Cubs install sign boards in bleachers to block Horseshoe Casino (Budweiser) building...
This one is for you sabermetricians
A Chicagoan, Part Of Cardinals Ownership Group, Dies
Making Fun Of Tim Lincecum's Hair...
Minor League Ball Interview With Billy Beane
Castillo Rumor Won't Go Away

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

SPONSORS

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges

Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: Cubs Convention 2010
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: General 2009 Ticket Exchange
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: September 29-October 4 Homestand

Managing Editor

Yelloncard_small Al

Editorial Cartoonist

Toonmike_small toonmike

Contributors

Dsc_0139_small holy mackerel

100px-boisehawkscaplogo_small Josh77

Small shawndgoldman