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Grading The Cubs At The Season's One-Third Mark

No, Lou. There's no help up there. You'll have to do it yourself.

More photos » by Tom Gannam - AP

No, Lou. There's no help up there. You'll have to do it yourself.

The Cubs finished the first third of the 2009 season -- 54 games -- after yesterday's win with a 28-26 record.

In and of itself, that's actually a good thing. Because of rainouts, the Cubs have played the fewest games of anyone in baseball. There are a couple of teams -- the Dodgers and Indians -- that have already played 59 games, five more than the Cubs have. Despite having long stretches (23 games in a row starting on June 16 due to last week's rainout, which will be made up on June 22 in Atlanta) of games with the makeups, two of those games represent games that Aramis Ramirez might be able to play in, that he otherwise would have missed. This could be a positive thing; also, the 3.5 game deficit in the NL Central is, because of the number of games played, only two in the loss column.

And despite the turmoil of this year, the 2009 Cubs are only five games worse than last year's model after 54 games, although the 2008 team was in the middle of starting their amazing regular-season run right then; the 54th game in 2008 was the fourth of the late-May nine-game winning streak.

So let's grade this year's team and see where we are headed for the remaining two-thirds of 2009.

Catching: B-. Geovany Soto has been a huge disappointment this year, showing up out of shape and not hitting at all, so much so that Lou had to give him a "mental break" late last week. He's started to hit a little better lately; since May 12 Soto is hitting .250/.361/.383 with 2 HR in 60 AB. Bump that up another 30 BA points and 50 SLG points and he's close to 2008. The reason the grade is as high as it is, is because of the presence of backup Koyie Hill, who has done a good job both offensively and defensively.

Infield: C. Derrek Lee also got off to a slow start, but since May 1 he is hitting .322/.413/.544 with 5 HR in 90 AB. That kind of production the rest of the year will probably get him to finish with around the kind of numbers he had in 2007 and 2008, maybe a little better if he can sustain it. Ryan Theriot has shown unexpected power, hitting six homers and having a .291/.355/.451 line for the season, fine numbers if he can keep them there. The injury to Aramis Ramirez has exposed how flimsy the bench is -- Mike Fontenot was forced into a fulltime role for which he isn't suited, and the rest of the backups are mediocre. When A-Ram returns, the infield will again be championship quality.

Outfield: B-. Kosuke Fukudome got off to another good start, as he did in 2008. And like last year, when the calendar turned to June, he stopped hitting -- .158 in his first five June games. This trend has to reverse, because with Milton Bradley in and out of the lineup, Fukudome has to play nearly every day. Reed Johnson has provided good bench play; Alfonso Soriano, as usual, is hot and cold, right now cold, but maybe yesterday's HR will start a streak for him. Bradley hasn't played enough to get any sort of rhythm. Since May 8 he is hitting .286/.384/.508 with 3 HR in 63 AB. If he can keep that up, he'll be just fine.

Starting pitching: A-. A shaky beginning by Ryan Dempster and a DL stint and suspension for Carlos Zambrano have faded into the past. The Cubs have gone 7-11 over their last 18 games -- which includes the eight-game losing streak -- but in those 18 games have allowed just 68 runs, 3.78 per game, and not all of those earned, and eight of them came in one blowout loss. Randy Wells has been a revelation, and I think he's for real. We still don't know exactly what's up with Rich Harden; his health is important to the rest of the season.

Bullpen: C-. Only Angel Guzman has been consistently good all season. That's one of the reasons the Cubs haven't been able to set out on a long winning streak -- bullpen failures. Kevin Gregg, better lately, had a shaky start. Aaron Heilman can't stop walking people. Neal Cotts was so bad he had to be demoted. And the formerly trustworthy Carlos Marmol has had control problems, probably from overuse. Guzman may be the savior here.

Management: C. And I happen to like both Lou and Jim and the job they did putting together the 2007 and 2008 NL Central champions. We have discussed many times the conclusion they apparently reached after the NLDS sweep by the Dodgers -- that they lost because they didn't have enough LH hitters. This isn't why they lost, but that obsession pushed them to sweep a lot of useful players out and bring in some that... well, not so much. The Aaron Miles signing was ridiculous -- Bobby Scales could have done the same thing for far less money, and though Milton Bradley may eventually provide production, I can't help thinking that Raul Ibanez or Adam Dunn would look awfully good in right field right now, even with their defensive skillsets. I will give Hendry credit for two minor moves that paid off: making Hill the backup catcher and keeping Guzman, who was out of options, and letting Chad Gaudin (current ERA: 5.01 with San Diego) go.

Lou Piniella looks like a lost little boy when he trudges in and out of the dugout. Even yesterday, when he went out to argue a call, he looked as if he were being bothered to do so, rather than having any passion. I don't need him to throw tantrums or bases or even his cap, but at least look like you care, Lou. It's as if he put every fiber of his being into winning in 2008, and even though he signed an off-season extension through 2010, this year is an afterthought. He's let bullpen pitchers sit for two weeks at a time, effectively playing with a 22-man roster while Z was suspended, and made other inexplicable decisions. Maybe he's the one who needs a "mental break".

Nevertheless, apart from the Dodgers -- and who saw that coming? -- there are no dominant teams in the NL this year. The Cardinals just gave up 28 runs in 3 games to Colorado at home; the Brewers look good, but also are flawed and have injury issues of their own. There's no reason the Cubs can't use the remaining two-thirds of this season to stay right in there until they return to full strength, likely about six weeks from now. All you have to do is get into the postseason -- then it's a crapshoot. Many playoff teams have proven that great regular season records mean nothing, both positively and negatively.

Enjoy the off-day. I'm sure the Cubs are.

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Thats an awfully generous grade for the Catching corps

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jun 8, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hill has done a very good job.

Otherwise it’d probably be a D+.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 8, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al,

I agree about Hill but without his contribution my grade would be an F. Sad.

by leothelip on Jun 8, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is still way too generous

I appreciate the job the back up catcher is doing, but that is not enough to raise the catching grade two letters.

by gocubsgo22 on Jun 8, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is when you factor in

How well the starting pitching is doing. That can be credited, at least in part, to Hill and Soto.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 8, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.

That’s why I gave a grade as high as I did. Maybe C+ would have been more accurate, but I gave Hill some credit.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 8, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I probably would have docked infield a bit more

for defense. Outside of Lee, it’s been horrific (at least it was until Blanco came up)

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 8, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

and even when ramirez comes back its strong on the corners but weak up the middle.

by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanco is pretty solid.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto the OF

Same for the OF. Soriano’s HR’s do not make up for his lackadaisical play in LF, his refusal to change his approach from that of a flailing hacker nor his refusal to hustle. Couple that with Bradley’s very slow start and the production from the OF has been below average…at least a D.

The bullpen grade is quite generous too given Marmol’s ineffectiveness, Gregg’s hit and miss start and the wildness of nearly everyone else. Guzman has been good, but not good enough to erase the failings of the others. Comparing their numbers league wide and seeing them near the bottom, that merits at least a D.

I won’t discuss the infield because it’s really a toss-up between a C and D grade since Ramirez’ injury. With him it’s certainly better. Without him, it’s certainly worse.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jun 8, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It should be broken down to each player for catcher

Hill gets an A for doing his job. Soto gets an F. F for Fat

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m in shape then

by leothelip on Jun 8, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something HAS to be done about Soto.

This guy should be on a treadmill every morning. I don’t know what the heck they’re doing with him, but bottom line: they need to whip him into shape. Go boot camp on his fat a55, and he’ll be back in 2008 form in 2 or 3 weeks.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Send him to AAA

wake him up. Don’t let him come back until he dumps some weight.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yahbut

who spells Hill?

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 8, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ted Lilly

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the current AAA catcher

These replacement guys can hit .215 for no power. Soto needs to find his power.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big Z...

As the complete player he will do a Buggs Bunny imitation and pitch and catch to himself, in addition to catching the other guys.

by DudeVf11 on Jun 8, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That might be the solution

He’s not going to drop the weight and refocus while having to handle this pitching staff

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And make sure he doesn't go home during thr All-Star-break...

Where he’ll fatten up some more on beans and rice.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude ...

no need to throw beans and rice in there.

by elgato on Jun 8, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I will never understand how options work. Sigh.

There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons

by Allie on Jun 8, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats about right

Damn, damn, damn.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree about treadmill or even wasn't Wood on some kind of diet plan last year

that really helped him. Find who ever that was that had that plan, and get Geo on it.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah... Kerry got him on the same diet plan in '07 I believe...

That’s when Soto got into shape, and started mashing the ball in AAA.

Obviously… there’s a correlation between Soto’s shape and his performance.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I realize Soto should take actions into his own hands....

But since he isn’t….. why are the trainers etc not doing something about it.

Hell Ronnie could even advice about Seattle Suttons (SP?) LOL

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't imagine

that the staff is doing NOTHING. There must be something. Just because they don’t tell us…

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley vs. Dunn et al

While I agree with much of the analysis. The Bradley vs. Dunn/Ibanez debate is not entirely fair.

Adam Dunn would have been a disaster in RF at Wrigley, and Ibanez wouldn’t be much better. Additionally, we should include Abreu if we want to be fair.

Sure, Bradley has battled injuries – not too surprising. But it isn’t fair to Jim Hendry to criticize him for Bradley’ weak numbers. Furthermore, it is dangerous to judge big free agent signings after just 54 games.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jun 8, 2009 8:51 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You may have a point...

With Ibanez (even though i really really wanted him), but with Dunn i disagree with you. The guy has played many many games here, and he would have murdered the ball, like he always does at wrigley, so i think his bat would have made up for his errors in right. I mean in 60 games at Wrigley he has hit 23 Hrs, that is just unreal.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed re: Dunn

The fact that we’re paying Fukudome and Bradley $20-ish million per year is heartbreaking.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 8, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Imagin him hitting in 70-80 games a year at Wrigley!

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Healthy Bradley> Dunn due to significantly better defense making up for his offensive production being a little lower. However, health is the issue. I’d take the big burly slugger over MB just because MB hasn’t been able to stay on the field. Dunn is horrible defensively, but he’s just so good offensively. Career ..382 OBP for a guy with his power is just amazing.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 8, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen has to be a D or D-

Don’t let yesterday’s results scew the average.

by salparadise23 on Jun 8, 2009 9:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

why shouldn't

yesterday count? If you’re going to grade someone on performance for 1/3 of the season, you can’t leave out data you don’t want to.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

with all due respect drew

One outing doesn’t make up that fact that he has had a variety of problems the 1/3 of the season. I’m looking at his whole body of work so far this season including yesterday.

No different that I could be president of Soto’s fan club, he is hands down my favorite baseball player. But I can’t let the one good game 2 days ago skew that fact that my boy is struggling this year for a variety of reasons.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying yesterday balances out

two months of suckitude. But you have to take it into consideration, just like you should take Soto’s one good game into consideration. For example, it’s proof that he CAN get his bat speed up to snuff.

The bullpen CAN hold on and not give up runs. Gotta factor that in.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think sal was saying discount yesterday

I think the point was that it shouldn’t raise the grade significantly. It’s 1/54th of the grading period.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he said

Don’t let yesterday’s results scew the average.

If I misunderstood, then ok. No worries. But it’s a performance by the pen, and it counts, even if just for a little.

To me, it shows what this bullpen CAN do. It’s not like Heilman coming out one day to pitch to one hitter and everyone saying “WOW! HE’S 100%!” For six or seven innings, this pen held the Reds to one run, and that was on Marmol.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you let yesterday pull a D up to a C-

that is skewing the average

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but that's not why Al says he gives the bullpen a C-.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I realize that. It's sal's speculation.

Just as it was your speculation that sal believed yesterday should be thrown out entirely.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Badger makes a great point there

He’s objectively looking @ both statements.

BTW it does pain me to point out that.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But then that isn't looking @ stats totally either

That is looking @ good ones and hoping that they continue. Not taking into account all the other ones.

Example, I decided that I want ride a bike 10 miles, 3 times a week. I fail at it, 9 out of 10 times. Yes it does me that maybe some day b/c I did it once. Does it mean that eventually I could. Yes, but if you are just grading the 10 times. No, I am not good at that.

Can the bullpen improve yes? I hope it does, but if I’m objectly grading the first 1/3. No it doesn’t.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not looking at one result and saying yeah for me.

I’m objectively looking @ the 10 and seeing what I can do different so I can improve so that I don’t make the same mistakes I made 90% of the time.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This will be an interesting month for Dome

He has been so good, but really you can see the slump coming. He is starting to look like bad-Dome from last season. I really hope he can figure it out quick.

So far I would give the Cubs a C overall, because there has been zero offense but tons of great starting pitching. We have found two keepers in Randy Wells and Angel Guzman. I also think that Ascanio could be a something in the bullpen, but I could be wrong.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kosuke has not looked good at the plate for 2 1/2 weeks now

This team absolutely cannot afford him to go into the tank. It is essential that he be able to hit .280 and be able to provide a decent run production value.

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

by BLou on Jun 8, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wouldnt happen but

what about trying to unload fukudome and his contract to someone…play johnson in center and try to use the opened up payroll to complete a deal for either peavy or a hitter……….If indeed hendry’s hands are tied with payroll.

I hope fukudome can hit for the whole year but I still am skeptical and we could probably get rid of him now with his good start.

by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trading Fukudome isn't something a team that wants to win this year does

We need his bat and glove. We just have to hope that the bat doesn’t go away.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand it wouldnt happen

I just think he might slip like last year.

by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He probably will

but for the purpose of winning this season, which is still the goal, Dome needs to stay.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Johnson

could probably do just as much as dome, especially if dome struggles a bit…….so why not open up the payroll space to try and help out another weakness on the team.

by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not against righties...

The platoon has been working out pretty well.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 8, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm on your side about Johnson/Dome

If Dome slides like he did last season, except that with Bradley getting hurt all the time we need Johnson or Dome to fill in. Trading Dome costs us some nice OF depth.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 8, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

even if dome struggles at the plate later, i’d almost not want to trade him cuz of his skill in the OF. same with RJ

by CubsFanInWisconsin on Jun 8, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Peavy...

For what? Can he hit or play 3rd? Our starting pitching has been excellent.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 8, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a believer in you could never have too much pitching

and then maybe wells could go to the pen to give us another good arm there

by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can have too much pitching when you have other serious issues to fix and you are trying to make it to october

Its like only working out your legs. You are going to look weird if you don’t spend sometime on the arms and back baby!

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

but we have ramirez out right now……what position would you trade for to get another bat? it would have to be a middle infielder and I don’t know how many bats are available at those positions….

by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

1st base depth

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

*

I meant who would we get?

by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Freddy Sanchez.

Put him at third until Ramirez gets back, then put him at second. This was Al’s idea, but I think it’s a great one.

Still, I think the pen is the biggest question mark. Gregg will be OK, IMO, and Guzman is the most positive development of the season.

But with Marmol and Heilman walking SO many guys …

by elgato on Jun 8, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Freddy....

is not happy in Pit – especially after the Nate trade.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good luck getting Sanchez...

considering that we’re close to budget as is and probably don’t have the prospects to make it happen.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is the problem....

tough to see us getting someone at this point.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

maybe a cheap reliever or a dumpster dive, but that’s about it.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tell me what you...

think about Russell Branyan? I’ve heard some rumblings that the Mariners will deal.

by Damen Jackson on Jun 8, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would be interesting

What would they want in return?

Branyan is doing great, but they only have him under control for one year. Would they take Hoffpauir? Or a couple relievers from the minors?

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Jun 8, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

… lets give up fielding (at a .290 AVG, .420 OBP, .471SLG and .891OPS), when we are short and hurting in the field…in an effort to play with our pitching, which has been firing on all cylinders in spite of little run support and our best defensive players in and out of the lineup.

That makes sense.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Jun 8, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting grades.

B- for the catchers yet a C for the infield? Our starting catcher has been pathetic this year. Hill has been nice, but nowhere near often enough to warrant a B- overall.

by kanderber on Jun 8, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Fontenot/Scales/Miles/Freel/Blanco

have been just as pathetic as Soto.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 8, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um?

Fontenot has been playing out of position and has been a passable 3b. Scales and Blanco have both played fairly well. Neither of those guys are going to be offensive powerhouses, although you can thank Bobby Scales for keeping us in at least two games.

I don’t even know if Freel has had 5 appearances yet. Miles, meh.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Generous grades by Al

Boy Al, I’d have to challenge you on the grading curve applied. Fact is the Chicago Cubs have been a signficant disappointment to this stage. Geovany Soto gets an “F”, period. Alfonso Soriano gets a “D,” Milton Bradley an “F”, Mike Fontenot a “D.” That’s 1/2 of the lineup care right there. The bullpen has also been tragic, and the prognosis for that pen with the dog days of summer right around the corner is not good at all.

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

by BLou on Jun 8, 2009 9:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Tragic

It’s never tragic when everyone leaves the ballpark alive

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 8, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT I realize

Worf is that really you or has someone gotton your password and periodically posts things like this? :)

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a very complex Klingon

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jun 8, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I have noticed that.

I have seen you in Star Trek: The Next Generation and Deep Space 9.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 8, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tragedy

When the feelings gone and you cant go on
Its tragedy
When the morning cries and you dont know why
Its hard to bear
With no-one to love you youre
Goin nowhere
Tragedy

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Jun 8, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1 for quoting the BeeGees

:P

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree.

The Bee Gees are awesome. They got a bad rap along with all of disco, but they wrote some incredible songs and have influenced modern music, specifically hip hop (everyone from Wyclef to Atmosphere has sampled them) more than anybody recognizes.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Jun 8, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You say that...

as if inspiring hip hop is a mark in their favor… :-p

I kid, I kid. (Kind of. Like every surburban white guy, I like OutKast, Tupac, and the like, but I can’t say I find much appealing about hip-hop/rap generally.) :)

In truth I don’t mind the BeeGees THAT much. They had hell-of falsettos. But if I had to choose, I’ll choose getting the Led out over them any day. Speaking of which, where’s my Zune… :)

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 8, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ergh...

Suburban. Not “surburban”…I’m a stupid, stupid moron. :)

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 8, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I was just funnin' ya

But you state a good case

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually have to agree with you for the most part. Can't beleive it.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont give Soriano a D.....

While yes he has been slumping, i think he has had a few spotty abs where he is showing that he could lay off the crap pitches if he wanted too. I am not sold yet, but i see a little improvement.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano should always rank a grade of A or B -- hence the problem

He is being paid $136 million over 8 years to serve as a franchise player and deliver significant production. And he has utterly failed in that mission since becoming a member of the Cub, to include most notably complete awfulness during the playoffs.

It is a BIG problem that Soriano is graded so poorly right now. A real BIG problem given that the other true franchise player in the lineup is out for several months with an injury.

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

by BLou on Jun 8, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting his poor defensive efforts and his slump aside...

The guy can’t even score from second base. He gets a stop sign everytime he rounds 3rd, because he runs like crap.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That brings up another Grade

Team speed D-. We can’t manufacture runs very well. That’s one of the reasons the Cards hang in there. They have the boppers and can plate people without a hit. We rarely do that.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I must agree on team speed

Sori has 6 steals and he is one of the leaders… what is that saying?

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It says this team is not built around speed. Speed is like a beautiful girlfriend - it great to

have one, but a nice-looking one works pretty good too. Very few teams in MLB are built around team speed. What you really want are intelligent baserunners. A guy doesn’t have to be lightning fast to be a good baserunner.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 8, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We should have kept Gathright!

Nothing is more beautiful than jumping a car.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Jun 8, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

However, and in the words of the Tenacious D, I would give them an F+. Click.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 8, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano's legs are shot

He doesn’t run well on the basepads or in left field anymore. Which is highly distressing because your legs are very key to hitting. The Soriano contract surely ranks as one of the worst in the game of baseball. And it is only going to get worse and time marches on. And the really sad thing is that the majority of Cub fans cringed when this signing first happened. I know of very few Cub fans who were legitimately excited about signing Soriano. Fact is if Hendry could have a “do over” he wouldn’t even offer Soriano a $36 million contract, let alone a friggin $136 million contract. Ugh.

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

by BLou on Jun 8, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hind sight is 20-20

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 8, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

freakin rec'd.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree about the hitting...

You keep saying that the leg problems will affect Soriano’s hitting, but the reality is that they haven’t. He’s been the same streak hitter throughout his time as a Cub, and the power hasn’t gone anywhere despite the leg problems.

The reality is that so much of Soriano’s power comes from his hands/wrists. He flicks the bat through the zone and generates tremendous power. So despite the hamstring, calf, and knee problems, the power has remained.

As for the contract, it was overpaying of course. But that’s the luxury a big market team has. The leg injuries were a surprise. He’d never had health problems before, he trains religiously to stay in great shape. He was just unlucky. And so a good part of his value (the speed on the basepaths) was sapped AFTER the fact.

If the team could have foreseen the leg injuries, they probably wouldn’t have signed him. But it’s hard to see into the future.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agree

As I said before, Soriano is a below-average major league hitter with freakish hand strength. That alone is the reason why he does what he does and why he’s so streaky. His plate discipline is poor. His plate coverage is only a tick better than average because he stands on top of it and swings a telephone pole. His hitting IQ is well below average as he has shown a complete inability to understand counts and game situations and adjust his approach accordingly.

His legs don’t affect his hitting as much as it would for some others. On top of it, he doesn’t run because the Cubs don’t make him run. He jogs around and the Cubs cater to him. That is why he doesn’t run. By now, every player has some ailment affecting their performance. As long as the Cubs continue to baby him, he will continue to refuse to hustle. It’s that simple.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jun 8, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullshit...

After losing out on Beltran and Furcal, Cubs fans were pissed that Hendry couldn’t get any big names to sign here and/or kept getting outbid. He finally goes out and gets the biggest name on the market at the time, filling a glaring weakness for us at the time, and people cringed? Back to back playoff appearances anyone? Please.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jun 8, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

+12

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hold on a sec...

That offseason who should the Cubs have signed – Carlos Lee or Soriano?

This is not a retrospect or anything like that. Based on pure need who should they have signed? I definitely think it should have been Carlos Lee. He fit in the lineup better and was more of what we needed than Soriano.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano

Lee is a way worse left fielder, can’t run the bases, and right now I would argue his contract is just as hated as Soriano’s.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Technically, the Cubs ALSO needed a leadoff man...

We had Lee and Ramirez in the middle of the order, but had nobody at the top of the order.

We also had Murton, Jones, and Floyd as options in the middle of the order. And we had a bunch of LF.

In hindsight, Lee makes more sense (as we now have Fukudome and Theriot who could lead off), but at the time, with plenty of LF and no leadoff man, Soriano probably made more sense.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Additional note - please look at this from Dec 2006 perspective...

not now.

Had we known that Jones would lose all power, that Murton would never develop power, and that Floyd’s legs would give out for good, then Lee might have made some sense.

But we had tons of corner OF and nobody to bat leadoff or play CF. The Cubs hoped Soriano could do both. Turns out, he could do only one.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We did have a CF...

and a leadoff guy. Juan Pierre. We chose not to resign him.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what a good move that was too

dude was a bench player until Manny was suspended

plus he has a leaf for an arm

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I'd argue that that was a good decision...

as Pierre signed for $10 million per year to be a below-average hitter.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Below average hitter?

Did he or did he not lead the league in hit in 2006? Seriously. Say what you want about the guy, but a lead off guy should get on base. Soriano either Ks or HRs that is if that streak of Abs is a hot one or not. Soriano is too streaky to be a leadoff guy. (i am not saying bat him else where). I am saying that winter was a bad one, if we would have retained him and signed Lee, this team would be totally different, and to me more offensively productive.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and after 2006???????

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Below average hitter...

his OBP was .330. He had an OPS+ of 82 as a Cub, and it got WORSE the last two years.

He led the league in hits in 2006, but he ALSO led the league in outs.

Soriano had a better OPS the last two years than Pierre, despite the streakiness.

And you’re still using hindsight logic here rather than at-the-time logic.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not comparing Juan Pierre...

to Soriano. Compare Lee and Soriano. Then tell me i am wrong.

I am telling you that we did not need a leadoff hitter, you are saying we did.

Bottom line Carlos Lee was the better option, not soriano.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no he wasnt. We didn't need a middle of the order guy

We needed the 20-20 guy we signed. Just didn’t pan out that way

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Wow…ok. You are right. the 12 runs we have scored in the playoff in 6 games is a good indication that we did not need power in the lineup.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again - hindsight logic...

you’re ignoring where we were in December of 2006 and looking at the results of 2007 and 2008 instead.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are right...

my bad. We had Derrek Lee coming off a wrist injury expecting him to hit 30 HRs again.

My bad.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lee OPSed .913 in 2007...

so I’d say he was just fine in the middle of the order.

Same for Ramirez.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are right...

most teams number 3 hitter knock in 82 people a season.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, because RBI are a good measure...

again, you illustrate your inability to understand offensive value.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ooookkkk...

so what does a 3 hitter do?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should lead the team in OPS...

the RBI depend on people being on base in front of him.

Lee was either first or second for the Cubs in OPS in 2007.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok fine...

i will agree with that. But realisitcally isnt a 3 hitter in the spot to drive in the most runs?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In theory.

He’s in that spot because he does have opportunities for more RBI’s but also because that 3 spot in the order will roll around more times than say the 6th spot

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only if there are people on base...

If runners aren’t on base (as is the case when your #2 hitter doesn’t get on and your leadoff man scores on his own so often), you aren’t going to get the chances.

Lee was a fantastic hitter in 2007, but his RBI opportunities were limited.

Similarly in 2005 (though more pronounced), when he was more productive in RBI chances than Andruw Jones or Albert Pujols but had so few RBI chances.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carlos Lee has never impressed me

with his impact on a team. I found it interesting that the Astros played their best baseball when he was hurt last year.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jun 8, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are out of control

You are bouncing around from issue to issue trying to support your arguement.

How is the offensive power outage in the playoffs have ANYTHING to do with the Soriano/Lee signing?

Say we sign lee and he goes 2-8, with 2 K’s and a RBI, Doubt that wins the NLDS

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Soriano is so consist that we know he is going to be clutch in the playoffs right?

Talk to yankee fans about that.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

You need to take a debate class

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you can follow your argument

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

tough to do when two...

guys keep changing my view and not reading what i say.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying we DID need a leadoff hitter...

because we didn’t have Juan Pierre. He was a free agent. He signed for $10 million per year to be a terrible hitter for LA.

And I DID compare Lee and Soriano from the beginning. We didn’t need Lee. We needed Soriano.

Again, you are failing to consider the circumstances. We had a one-year need in CF until Pie was ready. We had a need at leadoff man because Pierre was going to be overvalued and overpaid. We didn’t need a middle-of-the-order guy because we had LOTS of those.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie wasnt ready...

He never was, never will be.

if all of that was true about Pierre why did we trade so much to get him?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again - hindsight.

Pie was SUPPOSED to be ready by 2008. He didn’t pan out.

Why did the team overpay for Pierre for 2006? Because Hendry overvalued Pierre’s ability and undervalued our pitching prospects.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you are telling me...

that for $136 million your leadoff hitter does everything a leadoff hitter does?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope...

I’m saying he does everything a leadoff hitter does BETTER THAN PIERRE, who is terrible.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Juan Pierre sucks

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not this year

He sucked for us though.

by madcow256 on Jun 8, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Juan Pierre sucks

Just wait for him to bat more. He isn’t good at baseball.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

honestly - how so?

n/t

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One issue with Pierre

is his offense grades as a centerfielder but he can no longer play center field adequately which is why the Dodgers moved him to left field.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jun 8, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Dodgers moved Pierre to LF

at the beginning of last season, before Manny was traded to the Dodgers.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jun 8, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OPS+ of about 80 for the previous 4 years...

OBP of .331 or below for each of those seasons as well.

Even if you add in the stolen bases (and subtract out the caught stealings), that’s a well-below average offensive player.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm only going to do this once

His career OPS+ is 85. His career high is 107. He has zero power, no arm in the outfield, and led the league in caught stealing 5 times while only leading the league in steal twice.

He is mediocre at stealing bases, mediocre at getting on base, can’t hit for any power, can’t give an value on defense, and a one month hot streak won’t change that.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My biggest complaint:

Juan Pierre has what I consider to be the absolute WORST arm in all of MLB OFs. It is soooooooo bad.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 8, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

a detailed drawing of JP's arm

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

LOL +1

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 8, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know,

I was wondering what his arm looked like. Now I know!

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 8, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, maybe he has led the league in CS

5 times. He also takes a lot of chances.

Do some research and see how many times Rickey Henderson led the league in CS. I know he’s the career leader in that category.

by Cubs and Hawks fan on Jun 8, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

5 times in his 24 years

81% for his career, not to mention Rickey Henderson is one of the best baseball players EVER.

Pierre is 75%. JUAN PIERRE ISNT GOOD AT BASEBALL.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He might not be good at baseball

But 75% SB rate is pretty good . . .

by madcow256 on Jun 8, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You compared Juan Pierre to Ricky Henderson

One of the 10 greatest baseball players ever. In his standard- Pierre’s 75% is crap.

You take your Juan PIerre, I’ll take Soriano and a two NL Central titles.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We had one...

Remember we traded the farm away for a one year usage out of Juan Pierre? If we would have retained him and signed Carlos Lee our offensive production would have been way different than it is now.

I disagree with the hindsight, i think Lee made sense then and now.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, arguing that we should have kept Juan Pierre?

That’s terrible. The guy had a lower OBP than Soriano in 2007/2008, and got $10 million per year to have an OPS+ of around 75 in those years.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you keep changing my arguement...

This is not between JP and Soriano. It is Soriano and Lee.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You brought up Pierre, so I compared them...

Again – the Cubs didn’t need a middle of the order bat at the time. They had Murton/Floyd/Jones as options for the 5th and 6th spots, which should have been plenty. For similar reasons, they didn’t need a LF.

Also, they didn’t need a long-term guy in CF, because Pie was in AAA and a year away. So Pierre was out of the question (and a good thing too, as he was terrible in 2006-2008).

In HINDSIGHT, things MIGHT have been better with Lee rather than Soriano. MIGHT. But AT THE TIME, Soriano made more sense.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again...

you are forgetting DLee was coming off a wrist injury. The power was limited.

I am confused has to how Pierre had bad years in 2007-2008. He stole 100 bases over that time, batted about .285, 70 RBIs and over 300 hits….while striking out 60 times. Check your facts man. That to me is what a leadoff hitter does.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lee OPSed 913 in 2007...

And the problem you have is that you completely fail to understand offensive value. A leadoff hitter’s job is to GET ON BASE.

Pierre had an OBP of .330 and below in 2007 and 2008. Pierre was below average at getting on base. And he compounded that problem with being really bad at getting extra base hits.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

EXTRA BASE HITS???

Come on that is what stealing is for.

I am out of this conversation. You change my wording around to fit your arguement. I am out.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You just don't understand offensive value...

Pierre is below average at the job of getting on base, which is the primary role of a leadoff man. This is incredibly simple to understand, yet you don’t get it.

I haven’t changed your wording – you just don’t get it. And since you don’t get it, I agree that it’s pointless to continue.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So how is Soriano better...

Sorianos numbers for you…

OBP, 2007- .337, 2008 – .344, 2009 .305.

How is that SOOOO much better?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say SO much better...

I said he was better at it. And when you add the fact that he provides power, the difference is HUGE.

Neither is an ideal leadoff man. They both struggle to get on base at a sufficient rate. But Soriano was better at it from 2006-2008 than Pierre.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds good!

I will agree to disagree!

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We needed a leadoff man who could play center field

The center field thing didn’t work, but the leadoff thing did.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you have no idea

what Hendry would do. Great Caesar’s Ghost!

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You wouldn't know

a fact if one came up and bit you in the ass.

by sue369 on Jun 8, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, Sue ...

Hope I"m not rubbing off on you … :)

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 8, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all NB.

My dislike of BM goes back several years.

by sue369 on Jun 8, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In fact, due to an off season conditioning program, his legs are better than they have been in years...

Evidenced by earlier this year when he was getting steals, and running very well. I do not know of a lot of fans who cringed at this signing. Rather, I know many who were excited.

Once again assclown, just because you say something is, doesn’t make it so.

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 8, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's a bit harsh

Soto gets an F, I agree. Bradley gets an I for incomplete. Soriano deserves better than a D, I’d go C+. He was carrying the team for a while back in April. Fontenot gets a C-: He’s been asked to do too much, but he’s done about as well as anyone could expect at 3B, and his line vs. righties (.254/.344/.418) isn’t terrible, and coming into the season, we really only expected him to hit righties.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 8, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree mostly

with your grades. You are by nature, more optimistic than I am, I may have given lower grades on the bullpen and management.

I know we are all waiting for our hitters to get to their normal or average numbers, but with a third of the season gone, we can’t wait too much longer. Lee looks better, and The Riot is surprising us with his power. Hopefully Dome’s little slump will right itself and Soto will become somewhat of a force that he was last year. IMO, you can’t count on Rami being the savior when he comes back. His timing will be off and that shoulder may hinder him or cause him to tweak his swing a bit. I know the consensus is to hang in there until he returns, but he may not get on track until early/mid August. The big plus is having him back at the hot corner, and our infield gets back to normal.

As far as Harden is concerned, if Wells continues to excel, he can have his spot in the rotation. It’s realistic that Wells will not continue the entire season as he has started, but I love this kid. He knows how to pitch. I feel bad the rest of the team has let him down.

All in all, we are positioned well enough to make a run, if the offense gets going. I hope your recap of the second third of the season is brighter.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 9:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This comes close to what I think.

Though I would never take Harden out of the rotation. Other than that, this sounds about right to my ear. :)

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 8, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe put Wells in the pen and dump Heilman?

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd keep Wells in the rotation while he continues to succeed, and put Harden in that bullpen

granted this is just me, and I haven’t ran it past harden either

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I know what his answer would be! ;-)

For my money, I would try and keep Wells in the rotation, since he is the hot hand right now. It figures that we have a plethora of good-great SP and the infield is in such a mess.

One thing that might be just me, but Lou really seems gun shy this year. I mean, Fonty is NOT a 3B and is playing as well as can be expected. Why not put Fox out there? At least get his hot (at the time) bat in the lineup. I mean, during that stretch, we couldn’t buy a run, and you’re worried about an error here and there? If Jake helps us put a few runs on the board, I say go for it.

Also, Lou is going to absolutely KILL Marmol. He gets him up in blowouts, etc. Sometimes you have to trust your other guys a little bit, They aren’t going to right their ships sitting on the bench. Lou is getting like Dusty, trotting out the same ol’ same ’ol guys. If you want your bench guys to help you down the stretch, they better get some QUALITY playing time now.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually...

Not one of the haters on Heilman (or at least I don’t think he’s been as bad as some do; though a 1.60 WHIP is pretty atrocious). But if we need room in the pen, I don’t think Heilman is where you start, particularly since we have guys we don’t even use.

It will be tough once Harden comes back. Either move Wells into the pen for long relief, or maybe better is move him back to AAA so that he can continue starting.

That said: Is Marshall still in the rotation? Or have they moved him out to long relief? If so, then the rotation of Demp-Z-Lilly-Harden-Wells actually works, right? And then if Wells comes back down to earth, go back to Marshall…

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 8, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou has stated

that Marshall is going to the pen when Harden returns.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah...

Ok. Thanks Drew.

I actually prefer that I think, though I’m sure Marshall was disappointed, and he’s done a good enough job on most teams to earn a rotation spot.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 8, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes sense... when you look at Wells dominant starts.

Marshall suddenly becomes more valuable in the pen.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

next year

Harden will likely be gone, and Marshall will have his spot back, I bet.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take that bet

There are a few pitchers that I think get a shot for that spot. Samardzija is one – whether he deserves to be or not.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to believe

that having been given the #5 this year tilts thing too much in Marshall’s favor. Especially if Shark can’t come up with a third pitch.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that were true

Wouldn’t being the “backup closer” in 2008 made Marmol the closer in 2009?

I think Marshall gets a shot if he’s still with the Cubs, but I don’t believe he gets the job handed to him.

Then, of course, there’s that rampant Peavy speculation . . . plus, we don’t know who will be available. All in all, way too early to call the 2010 rotation with much certainty.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

because Marmol is more valuable where he is.

Marshal is more valuable OUT of the pen than in it. The difference is that Wells is so good right now, and the pen needs stability.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

And the Cubs could do a lot worse than Marshall in the rotation.

Still, I’m guessing there’s a battle for it.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marshall's value depends on the rest of the staff...

Obviously a starter is more valuable than a reliever holding all else out of the equation.

But if we have five (or more) other starters who are similarly as good as Marshall and still don’t have a guy to get out tough lefties (or have a lack of reliable arms in the pen), then Marshall may be more valuable in the pen again.

A lot will depend on how good Wells and Samardzija are by next spring. If they’re ready, we may very well see Marshall in the bullpen again.

If I had to guess, though, I’d say Marshall is in the rotation.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Given that

Marshall has shown he’s capable of being a competent starter and Samardzija has not yet shown he’s capable of consistently competent reliever, I certainly hope that the position is Marshall’s to lose and not Jeffs.

by madcow256 on Jun 8, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We lost to the Dodgers because....

Joe Torre, Don Mattingly, Rick Honeycutt, Mariano Duncan, and Larry Bowa prepared their team to beat us. And it’s really dumbfounding that Jim and Lou based our entire off-season on the premise that we lost because we didn’t have enough LH bats. We won 97 games with the bats we had, for crying out loud.

We got out-coached, and out-played. Much like what is happening these days.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Exactly.

The team was ill-prepared for a playoff series. They played the last week of the season last year — against teams desperate for a playoff spot — like it was spring training. And the pitching staff the last day was atrocious, when beating the Brewers could have given the Cubs the Mets as their first-round opponent.

Lou screwed that up. Bigtime.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 8, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I personally think...

It all goes back to the Sunday game against the brewers. We should have played that to win, and we would have drawn the Mets instead of the Dodgers. If i remember correctly.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep. That's what Al was referring to.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was no guarantee of the Mets...

… since they lost that day. But if the Cubs had defeated the Brewers, the Mets and Brewers would have tied, forcing a playoff for the wild card.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 8, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Given the way the Mets have played in September the last few years,

I’m not sure they could have won a single-game playoff last year, even if the game was in Shea. Does anyone know what magic number the Mets had in 2007, before they collapsed and the Phillies won the NL East?

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 8, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I recall, they were up by

something like 7 games with 17 games to go.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jun 8, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If my calculations are right,

The Mets had a magic number of 11 with 17 games to go in 2007.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 8, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this

I agree with.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fact that Jim and Lou couldn't look in the mirror and recognize that...

is another problem.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On that I disagree.

The Cubs beat themselves in the playoffs last year. The Cubs played so poorly that I don’t think it would have mattered who their opponent was.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jun 8, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're saying that they played so poorly, because they were ill-prepared by their manager.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, they could not field ground balls all of a sudden.

That was really horrific play – it wasn’t just the bats going silent – it was a systemic collapse.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 8, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I put that squarely on the players.

I think coaches and managers are blamed way to much when players play poorly. The players are the ones making millions of dollars.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Millions of dollars do not matter.

A competent infielder making the league minimum should have made those plays. And while we’re at it, check Lou Piniella’s salary. I’m pretty sure he’s not hourly.

"I'll never forget how I felt last October." ~Kosuke Fukudome

by Goodie1969 on Jun 8, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly the managers are getting a piece of the at pie also

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 9, 2009 2:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou couldn't have prepared them

to NOT make all those errors in Game 2.

by elgato on Jun 8, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will never forget...

Dempsters face in that game he pitched. He looked soo soo scared. We were not prepared.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How can you say they weren't prepared?

Most of the same team had been around for the playoffs in 2007. I think they knew the drill.

I think a lack of lefty bats had something to do with it. But I think the biggest factor was this:

Pressure. The pressure of breaking a 100-year-old drought. The heavy cloud that seems to hang over Wrigley Field. The weight of all the fans’ expectations.

I think that’s the real reason they folded in the playoffs last year. It had nothing to do with a lack of preparation.

When the Dodgers hit that grand slam in Game 1, the game was hardly out of reach — only a two-run deficit. But that sucked all the oxygen out of that ballpark, and that was that.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 8, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cant you...

prepare yourself for pressure?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if you can

prepare for pressure like that.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 8, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You kinda do...

though when you sign with the Cubs. it is not like the 100 year thing game about during the 60th game of the season. You know what you are playing for year in and year out. With the Cubs you know the fans want it more, and it is going to be a roller coast of emotion.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, but if you know all that,

then you shouldn’t need any “preparation” at all.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 8, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok fair enough...

i guess i came to that conclusion because they beat us in every aspect of the game.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

me too

But some people no matter how badly Cubs get beat are going to have that opinion that it wasn’t there fault.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, it certainly was the Cubs' fault

With some help from the Dodgers. And a big hand to simply being a Cub.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 8, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd on sackmans comment.

I agree about the play offs last year.

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I give Adam Dunn an "A" thus far.

Oh, wait, wrong team.

Milton Bradley? “F” for fluke, f***-up, and flushing our money down the toilet.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 8, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL!

Honestly if the biggest knock on Dunn was his fielding and his Ks, i can handle that if he is hitting 40-50 HRs a season for us. Especially protecting Ramirez. Lets face it, Dunn fit this team better. (Not to mention so did Carlos Lee but we chose Soriano instead)

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've made this point before ...

But, apparently, Lee was only willing to play in Texas.

by elgato on Jun 8, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There would be people on here whose heads would explode

watching Dunn trying to play right field.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Jun 8, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm having enough trouble with our current $40 million outfield.

Do you know what $40 Million Dollars annually could have bought this team for an outfield?

Instead, we have Soriano, Fukudome, and Bradley – three very flawed players.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jun 8, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the biggest problem with the Soriano signing

isn’t that he only bats leadoff. It’s that he can only play left. The Cubs clearly thought he could play center, because that’s where he first played in 2007.

If Soriano could play center, or even right, the Cubs could have done a lot of different things with free-agent signings in the past two years. Dunn and Ibanez would have been viable options.

by elgato on Jun 8, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

the Cubs thought they had a stopgap in CF until Pie was ready. Unfortunately, Pie didn’t pan out. The stopgap in CF turned out to not be as big a problem, as we made the playoffs anyway with Jones in CF.

by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point

The 2007 roster construction also shows how the Cubs were thrown by Sori’s need to play left. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have had D-Ward, Floyd, Jones and Murton on the roster (especially when they weren’t counting on Jones to play center).

The Soriano signing, I think, will look worse and worse over time. Sigh.

by elgato on Jun 8, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he plays left field

just fine.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Food for thought

Dunn will drive in 100+ runs a year. What will our RF’s drive in this year? 75-80? Will Dunn cost his team more than 25-30 runs by being in RF?

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doubtful.

It blows my mind how much people put into fielding for outfielders. it is what it is. At some point Dunn’s offensive power would far out weigh the occasional errors.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jun 8, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are called outfielders,

not outhitters.

Fielding is extremely important. You can’t outhit poor fielding for an entire season

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll never know, will we?

I say Dunn would have done so. Got any numbers to back up your claim?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jun 8, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant that comment from a team stand point

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

Dunn’s UZR/UZR150 last year was -10.4/-71.4 (!) in RF last year. That’s ridiculously bad. (RF is his worst OF position, btw.)

His Runs Above Replacement (RAR) was 13.1 (his Wins Above Replacement was only 1.3).

In looking at all of his numbers (see here), what I see is that at best the negative impact of his fielding isn’t quite large enough to totally eliminate all of his offensive value over a replacement player. But it’s pretty close. If that’s the case, why in hell pay a lot of money for what you could pay someone very little to do (or more aptly, why sacrifice the opportunity cost of signing someone who both hits and fields?)

Granted there is some nuance to the numbers so it’s not quite cut and dry, and his offensive productive could theoretically increase based on park factors in Wrigley. But I still don’t think it would be enough to justify his playing RF for us (As much fun as watching his gargantuan HRs would have been).

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 8, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for doing my homework lol

i wish i was more of a stats guy

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well I wish I was more of a stats gal

I’m slowly starting to learn more it. I swear the as I’m starting to learn it the more I realize how much more there is out to there to make the game more interesting at least in bits and pieces

"That's what you live for. You live for the opportunity and when that day comes, you better be ready," Soto said. "I tried to make sure that whenever they gave me a chance, I was ready and I knew I had to take advantage of the opportunity."

by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yoyu know what?

If someone carries a big stick, they find a place for them to play. Obviously, Dunn can only play 1b and outfield. He is still in MLB because he hits. How many Gold Glove OF’s have the Cubs had over the years?

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dawson's the only one.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh... and Bob Dernier

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't arguing we need gold glovers,

Just an outfield with Dunn and Soriano on the corners day in and day out makes me, fukudome, and reed’s johnson shudder

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, he won't get to the same amount of balls that Dome or Bradley can get to

but he plays everyday, he will give you major pop in the middle of the order and will allow better AB’s by the guy in front of him in the order. His pluses outweigh his minuses IMO.Over the last 5+ years he has missed only 25 games, and who knows how many those were just to give him a break. Bradley will miss that many this season alone.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

But then these boards would be littered with talk of the all or nothing kinda hitter he is.

We’d bitch about strike outs. Cause we LOVE to focus on the negatives.

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn's no DiMaggio or Mantle

but who is nowadays? It’s a crapshoot either way. You get the RBI’s and HR’s and K’s with subpar fielding. Or, you get slumping, hurt outfielders that show promise a few times a year. Pick your poison.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Touche

Great Point. Guess I just have faith that promise is gonna materialize

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have to

they are Cubs and aren’t going anywhere soon.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 8, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The same people who say stuff like this

also get on Soriano for “dogging it” on balls hit to the outfield.

Which is it? Can’t have it both ways.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 8, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 8, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Follow me, chilango, and you'll go places.

/s

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 8, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Let’s go.

I totally agree with your Bradley position, FWIS.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 8, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW, not FWIS

Sorry.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jun 8, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't all fans contribute to payroll in one regard or another?

We buy merchandise, game tickets, etc.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 8, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that is why I say terms like, "we, us, my, our" when refering to the cubs

I help pay for that. However itty bitty my amount may be :)

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2011

by heine41 on Jun 8, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any merchandise counts

I do what I can when I visit Chicago, whether it be going to a game or getting some merchandise.

Cubs record since April 2004: 4-0

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jun 8, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

Orval just doesn’t like me, so he likes to be a bit snippy with my comments.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jun 8, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The % ownership

you can legitimately claim from buying a ticket or buying merchandise or buying a beer, is grossly out of proportion to the amount of ownership people routine claim with these “our money” concepts.

Yeah, like with all businesses the Cubs’ money originates from its patrons. That doesn’t mean we as fans have the legitimate right to call it “our” money once we spend it. If the team adds a new $10mm pitcher at the trading deadline, THEY, not us, pay that out of pocket. And if Soriano doesn’t provide a return for the $136 mm contract he got, believe me, the team and its owners feel it a lot worse than you.

by Orval Overall on Jun 8, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget

that nearly every sports fan ever says we when speaking of the team they root for.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's something I try to avoid doing...

…but sometimes I give in and do it anyway.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jun 8, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I try to

avoid that too but it’s not always easy.

by sue369 on Jun 8, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense, but that puts economics entirely on its head.

I imagine you wouldn’t feel entitled to argue Costco’s payroll/business decisions because you shop there, right?

The exchange of merchandise/right to watch the game being played is what you’re paying for. Not what the private company known as the Chicago Cubs decides to do with its profits from your exchange.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Jun 8, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply