Harden's I-Cubs outing
by mrcubsfan on Jun 8, 2009 9:44 PM CDT
46 comments
68 pitches must have been the number tonight. With an early class tomorrow I left when Harden got done pitching to a less than crowded night at Des Moines' Principal Park. It was upper 60's, cloudy and somewhat on the cool side and that, along with the fact over 9,000 thoughthe was pitching Sunday, held the crowd down tonight. Many season ticket holders didn't even show. I got a single seat 11 rows behind the I-Cubs batters box for $10. Good seat.
Harden left the game in the 5th inning with 2 outs and a runner on 2nd. Of his 68 pitches, 43 were strikes and he recorded 6 strikeouts, all swinging. His pitch total by inning was 14-8-20-16-10. Only two pitches topped out over 90, one exactly 90 and one at 91. Harden featured a lot of off speed breaking pitches throughout the game.
The only trouble Harden had was in the 3rd. Solid single to right; slow infield hit past Miles for another single; sac bunt; solid RBI single to left; runners on 1st and 3rd and a stolen base to put both in scoring position. Harden walks the bases full (the first of two walks). On the next pitch a high pop fly to right field was the play of the game...So Taguchi caught the ball and threw an absolute strike to home preventing any tag up. Harden got ahead 0-2 with a 90 mph fast ball and ended the inning with another pop fly to right.
In a few other game notes Miles needs to stay in Des Moines. In his first plate appearance he flew out to right in foul territory and later struck out with the bases loaded. Taguchi drove in two runs (has everyone forgot about him?) with a double down the left field line and Dubois drove in two more in the same inning with a drive off the top of the right/center wall. Haren had a nice sac bunt on the first pitch he saw in the 4th.
There were 4 radar guns behind first base, which is common at I-Cubs games. What was not so common were two Cardinal scouts charting pitches, one in full Cardinal gear. He kinda stuck out. They were about 10 rows behind the radar guns.
It was a good night for Harden. He looked smooth and strong using many off speed pitches and little full out fastballs. While it was my first I-Cubs game of the season, I always walk away saying I need to get back soon. We have a nice ballpark with good promotions (tonight was $1 general admission, $1 popcorn and $1 pop), a fun time with every seat a good one. As I finish writing, Harden is probaably on his way to Houston.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Even if his velocity wasn't "high"
its good to know he was getting swings and misses. Thats important!
Thanks for the report!!
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
by Allie on Jun 8, 2009 9:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm less worried about velocity
if he’s getting good movement on his pitches. Sounds like a good outing.
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 8, 2009 10:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it was Josh that said the other day...
…the important thing to remember about minor league rehab stints is that the stats are mostly irrelevant. Pitchers may take some sauce off their fastball to make sure their elbow or shoulder is alright, work on a particular breaking ball pitch, or hitters may strike out a lot but want to get their timing right. Seems like common sense, but it struck me as “Oh, yeah, that makes sense now that you say it!”. Thanks for the report!
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jun 8, 2009 10:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Pitchers simply aren’t trying to get batters out particularly. They’re testing their bodies under game conditions.
I remember seeing Randy Johnson pitch in a rehab start for High A Lancaster. Dallas McPherson hit a towering grand slam off of him and the Rancho Cucamonga Quakes roughed him up for 11 hits in six innings. Afterwards, Johnson said he felt great and that it was a good start. He made two more rehab starts after that at AA and AAA and was dominating in both of those and in his first start in the back majors.
by Josh77 on Jun 8, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells and Marshall
have made this a very easy DL stint for Harden. No rush whatsoever for him to come back.
"Live and be happy, beloved children of my heart, and never forget that until the day comes when God will deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is contained in these words: wait and hope!" - The Count of Monte Cristo
by Bricks and Ivy on Jun 8, 2009 11:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Wells is pitching better than Harden anyway. Heck, he’s pitching better than Zambrano, Lilly, and Dempster.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 8, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Aaron Miles is concerned,
I want him back ASAP. I didn’t like the signing, but now that he’s here, I’d definitely rather have him in the lineup than Andres Blanco. Blanco’s a great fielder, but the guy just can’t hit. Miles is an upgrade over Scales/Blanco, and we need all the offense we can get right now.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 8, 2009 11:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Offense? From Aaron Miles? Surely you jest.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 8, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Miles: .204/.250/.265 (98 AB)
Scales: .226/.328/.472 (53 AB)
Blanco: .208/.269/.292 (24 AB)
Blanco has the smallest sample size and given the defensive skills he’s been displaying, I’d like to see him given more of a chance now that he’s here.
Miles’ offense has been putrid for the Cubs — I’d like to see him stay in Iowa until he shows that he’s starting to hit better. I know.. I know.. I don’t get a vote… :)
Pumping sunshine for the Cubs since 1968 (yeah, that's right I was a Cubs fan in the womb!)
by CubFanInCanberra (9387milesfromWrigley) on Jun 9, 2009 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was 0 for 5 tonight
but in his previous two games, he was a combined 3 for 7. Beyond major leaguers not really looking to accumulate stats in the minors, I don’t really see how one bad night indicates that Aaron Miles isn’t ready to return to the majors.
Now the question of whether he should have ever been in the majors in the first place is a good one, as your stats point out. But one 0 for 5 does not prove that one way or another.
by Josh77 on Jun 9, 2009 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
98 AB=miniscule sample size
Over his career, he’s been a mediocre hitter, which is a more than Scales and Blanco can say.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 9, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles 08 stats
.317/.355/398 over 400+ PAs.
You’re telling me that’s not an upgrade over Blanco?
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 9, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that in line
with his historical averages?
(goes and looks) Nope.
He’s a career .285/.325/.360/.685 hitter, and I don’t think his bat makes up for his not-so-good glove work.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 9, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
I suspect that last year was an aberrant year for Miles. If he repeated last year’s offense, he’s an upgrade over Blanco. But if he returns to career norms, it’s very debatable.
by SouthernCub on Jun 9, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year is also aberrant for Miles
I’ll take the 285/.325/.360/.685 line over Blanco any day, and I don’t think his defense is that bad at all. He’s more or less average at 2B, and slightly below average at SS. I don’t think that’s enough of a defensive dropoff from Blanco to make up for the upgrade in offense. And when Ramirez comes back, he’ll start mostly against lefties, against whom he has a solid career OBP of .351. He was signed to spell Fontenot against LHPs, be an option as a pinch hitter, and occasionally give Theriot a day off. In that role, considering he won’t play SS all that much and will primarily hit leftties, he’s better than Blanco.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 9, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
when Ramirez comes back, I’d consider it. However, Miles returns from the DL much sooner, and fwiw, I’d rather have Blanco or Scales in there now.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 9, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On what grounds?
Is that based on Blanco’s sub-.600 OPS or Scales’ 10 years of minor league experience.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 9, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on the grounds
that they’re both better defensive players than he is, and that neither of them are batting that much worse than he is.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 10, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
how Miles is an upgrade over Scales OR Blanco.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jun 9, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles isn't great
but Blanco flat out cannot hit major league pitching. Scales vs. Miles is only a slight edge to Miles offensively but Miles is better with the glove and can play SS, which Scales apparently cannot do.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 9, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I agree on Miles vs Scales...
Not sure I disagree either, but definitely not sure I agree.
I would call the defense a wash, as I don’t think Miles can REALLY play SS. I think both are just passable 2B.
As far as the hitting, Scales has done nothing yet to suggest he’s not as good a hitter as Miles. Time may tell, but I wouldn’t say it’s a given Miles has a slight edge offensively. Remember: Miles is a sub-.700 OPS guy.
by SouthernCub on Jun 9, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point
although I don’t buy the idea that Scales, a guy who couldn’t get out of the minors for a decade, is gonna be a .700 OPS guy. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but I’m skeptical.
You have to admit, though, that Miles>Blanco.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 9, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly? It's hard to say...
Miles is better offensively than Blanco (by about 80 or 90 OPS points), but Blanco is better defensively. As a middle infielder, it’s hard to say whether the improvement in defense offsets the reduction in offense.
by SouthernCub on Jun 9, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles also cannot hit MLB pitching.
He’s been terrible for a very long time. The fact that Hendry gave him a ludicrous contract doesn’t change that.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 9, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has hit .285 over his career
hmmm, sounds like he can hit MLB pitching, but hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your rant.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 10, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because batting average is the end of your analysis, right?
The guy has a .685 career OPS. He has consistently put up seasons of ~75 OPS+, which pretty conclusively demonstrates that he’s a bad MLB hitter.
The fact that he puts the ball in play (weakly) a lot, rarely walking or striking out, doesn’t really establish that he’s any good. To the contrary, his stats, over a decade of work, demonstrate conclusively that he is not.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 11, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you obsess over OPS
He has a career BA of .285, better than most players in the big leagues. His OBP is .325, which is decent. Granted, he is not hitting this year so far, but his career make a mockery of your contention that he cannot hit big league pitching.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 13, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles is a proven big league player.
His career offensive numbers are impressive and he is a solid 2b. Blanco is probably better defensively but is completely unproven offensively. As for Scales, yes, his is a heartwarming story, the Cubs answer to Rudy, but there is a reason why the guy has been in the minors forever.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 10, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles is not a good hitter
I think I could go up there and throw a bat at a pitch just as good as he can. It is beyond me how he .300 a season ago. He isn’t even a scrappy hitter, he is just bad.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jun 9, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you could hit
.285 in the bigs? Yeah, right. Get a grip.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 10, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to be fixated on batting average.
A weak-gloved backup middle infielder who is capable of hitting .280 with a .310-.320 OBP and absolutely zero power isn’t really all that useful. And the jury is definitely out as to whether he’s even capable of that anymore.
Even in Miles’ career year, he was below average. And if you’re expecting him to repeat his career year, you’re either deluding yourself, or you’re Jim Hendry. Or both.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jun 11, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this seems quite personal for you
Did he refuse to give you an autograph or something? You state Miles cannot hit big league pitching, yet his career numbers show that to be false. Guys who cannot hit MLB pitching do not have a career BA of .285 and an OBP of .325. He isn’t going to Cooperstown with those numbers, but he is not a stiff.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 13, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pitch count seems a little high.
Does that matter?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 9, 2009 3:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
High for 4 and 2/3rds, or
or high for a rehab start?
Seems about right to me for 4 and 2/3rds. The MLB average is 15 pitches/inning. So, he was on track to easily finish six, possibly even seven, and still be under 100.
by BatCubFan on Jun 9, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I misread the post.
I thought it said 90 pitches — that was 90 MPH. The pitch count seems about right.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jun 9, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You gotta cut back on those cocktails, Al.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jun 9, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cardinals scoutS
wazzup with that?
i guess if your franchise invests in scouts (instead of utility infielders that can’ t play third or short), you might as well use them.
by tim815 on Jun 9, 2009 7:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey... there was plenty for them to watch.
Miles, Taguchi, and Harden. Plus, we were playing the Astros AAA team.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jun 9, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too find it strange
That Cardinal scouts would be tracking Harden. Especially scouts in full gear.
Is that catcher’s gear?
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jun 9, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, it was
yadier molina?
or maybe tom pagnozzi
by tim815 on Jun 10, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden's postgame
said he was trying to locate pitches and he never throws over 90 on a rehab start. He wanted to get ahead of batters and just work on location. I think he accomplished this with flying colors.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jun 9, 2009 7:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the report
Good to hear that he’s throwing exactly like he’d planned – not much speed and working on location.
"I won't be like A-Rod" - Z, 3/17/09
by Ihatethecards on Jun 9, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love Principal Park
I went to a game a couple years ago. That was back when Fontenot, Soto, and Hoffpauir were all on the team. That’s good to hear about Harden though. We definitely need him even when his pitch count gets elevated in the 5th inning and we have to take him out.
"You just don't know understand how frustrating this is"- Kevin Borseth
by TkGoUWGB on Jun 9, 2009 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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