Sam Fuld Leads Cubs To 4-1 Win Over Pirates (With Help From Randy Wells)
NOTE FROM AL: Once again, the Cubs and Pirates played a swift game Wednesday night, so this recap was originally posted at 9:07 pm Wednesday ... I've moved it to the top of the front page this morning, for those who weren't online Tuesday night. (Again, that's why the "tonight" references.)
So this is all it took?
Benching Alfonso Soriano for a day and starting Sam Fuld in left field?
Fuld made the most of his chance, leading off the game with his first major league hit, a double (yes, Jessica, they saved him the ball and probably pulled the usual trick, where they scribble all over a fake ball and give that to him, then hold the real one for later). He also made two fine defensive plays, capped by his bullseye throw that caught Jack Wilson trying to score in the fifth inning.
And just to make it an all-Fuld night, he caught a fly ball for the final out of the Cubs' 4-1 win over the Pirates. Derrek Lee chimed in with his 12th homer of the year, and Kosuke Fukudome also went deep, his first homer since May 26. Fukudome also made a nice diving catch in center field tonight.
Is it too early to start beating the drums for Randy Wells for Rookie of the Year? Seriously, who else in the National League in his first season is doing what Wells is? (Colby Rasmus, maybe.) Wells has made 10 starts, thrown 63 innings, and if he had enough (it'd be 75 at this writing, equalling the number of games his team has played), he'd rank third in the NL with a 2.43 ERA. Wells won't appear among the league leaders, most likely, until after the All-Star break, but his seven strong innings today make him one of the most consistent starters in the league. He's had only one bad start among his ten.
All told, the Cubs put up five extra-base hits including a triple from Geovany Soto, only the third of his major league career. It was suggested in one of the comment threads not long ago that Soriano's travails the last two months might be because he is trying too hard to carry the team in Aramis Ramirez's absence.
There's something to this, I think. Soriano is an all-out kind of player -- all or nothing, as we have too often found out. If he thinks he has to carry the weight of two players, it's no wonder he hasn't been hitting. If this theory is correct, Soriano should take off on one of his hot streaks as soon as Ramirez returns to Chicago on Monday after his three-day rehab assignment this weekend (incidentally, anyone here who's going to the Kane County game on Friday, please take photos!).
I was out for a while tonight and was listening on the radio, and in between the usual "Gosh!" comments from Ron Santo, there was some cogent commentary from Pat Hughes about Fuld, who told the broadcast team that during his brief callup in 2007, he didn't feel comfortable because he hadn't been to major league spring training and didn't really know anyone on the team. This year, as a member of the 40-man roster who had some shot, at least, of making the club out of camp, he said he knew many of the current players -- and on the current team, there are five other players who spent significant time at Iowa this year and two others (Koyie Hill, Micah Hoffpauir) who spent much of last year there as a teammate of Fuld. Watching Fuld bat tonight, he looked completely different than that kid who endeared himself to Cubs fans with his crashing-the-wall catch that resulted in a double play on September 22, 2007 vs. the Pirates at Wrigley Field. It's one of those things you can't put a statistical measure on -- he looked more confident, as if he belonged on a major league field, whereas he didn't really look like that two years ago.
Me? I'd start him again tomorrow. Ride the hot hand. Lou likes doing that. And thanks for the show tonight, Lou -- that's his first ejection of the season, arguing a close call at first base where Wells almost beat out an infield grounder. (Replays were inconclusive to me, though Len & Bob thought he was safe.) Lou could sit Milton Bradley tomorrow and play Fuld in right field. (Thanks, Milton, for the pair of walks tonight, I guess -- though I thought we signed you to be a big bat in that cleanup spot. Glad you bumped up your OBA.)
In any case, the Cubs ended the road trip with a series win and crept back to within 3.5 games of first-place Milwaukee (two down in the loss column -- win three of four this weekend and they'd be tied in the loss column). Nice way to start a new month.
0 recs |
513 comments
|
Comments
I will even look forward to rolling back
the tape from FSN Pittsburgh tonight.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2009 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very Classy Title..
Giving Fuld some props. I was VERY, VERY, happy to see the 1-2 spots in the Cubs order get on base tonight. Whoever leads off and bats second, despite their name and contract, needs to do that for us. Two runs in the first says it all.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jul 1, 2009 9:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now THIS game was fun
Let’s have more like tonight and no more like last night, OK?
by ChipSet on Jul 1, 2009 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think i'm owed an apology!! :)
for being lambasted a week ago when I called for Sam Fuld to be promoted to the big club. He’s not Albert Pujols, but this energy and making things happen is exactly what I was talking about.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 1, 2009 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
You don’t think he’s Albert Pujols?
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's Albert Pujols.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 2, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never seen them together in the same place
He might be. It could just be a clever ruse!
by chitownhawkeye on Jul 2, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I probably scoffed...
…so I’ll give you some props. Fuld played as advertised tonight – high energy, good defense and – mea culpa – a fine choice in the leadoff spot. Of course, it was just one game – and these were dilipated Pittsburgh Pirates. But Fuld may turn out to be a good 5th OF/pinch runner.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry you are way late
I have been waiting since Sept of 07 for them to bring Fuld BACK.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 1, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep - you've been flying the Fuld flag for a long time.
Last night was a big win for you, too!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sam Fuld From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chicago Cubs — No. 27
Outfielder
Born: November 20, 1981 (age 27)
Durham, New Hampshire
Bats: Left Throws: Left
MLB debut
September 5, 2007 for the Chicago Cubs
Samuel "Sam" Babson Fuld (born November 20, 1981, in Durham, New Hampshire) is a Jewish-American left-handed Major League Baseball outfielder for the Chicago Cubs.
Fuld is the son of Kenneth Fuld (Chairman of the psychology department at the University of New Hampshire) and Amanda Merrill (New Hampshire State Senator), and got his start playing baseball when he and his grandmother played with wiffle balls.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 1, 2009 9:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think his grandmother wrote this wiki...
..the grandmother that played wiffle ball with him. :)
by adam316 on Jul 2, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More good news...
…. Giants just tied up the Cardinals in the top of the 8th.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
they did it in cubs fashion though. bases loaded no outs and only 1 run
by jesus christos on Jul 1, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, a run is a run, right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano needs to be moved into the #5 or #6 hole - PERMANENTLY
Lou Piniella infuriates me greatest via his special treatment on Soriano.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 1, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about to the bench for a few days?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou won't do that
Unfortunately. Lou embraces a different set of standards and roles for Soriano. I for the life of me don’t understand it. And despite my serious issues with Soriano, I’m not sure I understand WHY Lou feels so compelled to treat him with kid gloves. Seems to me that Soriano doesn’t need to be pampered or treated differently. He just wants to play baseball.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if the theory you mentioned holds true...
…maybe Lou should leave Soriano on the bench until Aramis gets back. I kinda doubt he’d do it – Lou probably wants his “horses” for the Milwaukee series. But, I have to admit, it was nice to not see Soriano at the plate tonight.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 1, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I expect
Sori will sit tomorrow. Get him his rest, get him back to Wrigley, and we’ll see what happens. Fuld is an able temporary fix.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was anything more said about him talking his way into playing last night?
I’m just wondering if Lou regretting that decision lead to tonights night off. And considering the result, I hope it lasts for at least 1 more. More time for him to rest the knee (if it is truly injured), and hopefully light a little fire under him.
by chitownhawkeye on Jul 1, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not buying the excuses on Soriano
I dont’ think it is a question of leg health nor do I think he needs a fire lit under him. I think his struggles rest entirely with the fact that he is and has forever been a guess hitting hack. But unlike years past he is caught in the deepest funk he has ever been in and hasn’t gone on any of those patented hot streaks. He is swinging at everything these days and has God-awful at bats. The one thing he needs to do is switch to a lighter bat instead of that telephone pole he uses. Soriano HAS to make accomdation to age. Otherwise he will very soon struggle to hit .200 in this league.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 1, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said "guess hitting hack"
it makes me all warm inside.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 2, 2009 2:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Sori would try to change things (lighter bat, better batting stance) but I just
don’t think he is a smart baseball player. I’m not dissing his passion or his athleticism, just his mental makeup.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 2, 2009 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, warm fuzzies from the good old days.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
Time to make adjustments. A lighter bat is a good start and the easiest to do.
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 2, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.....
but Lou still needs to move him out of the lead off position
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
it’s not Lou’s decision. Maybe Hendry promised it as a condition of signing here.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 1, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't possibly be.
If I was the manager, I’m out.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caption
I’m pretty sure that’s not the way to do the heimlich maneuver
by chitownhawkeye on Jul 1, 2009 9:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who would have pegged wells as out best pitcher at the all star break?
10 starts with his numbers isn’t just luck, but it will be interesting to see how the league tries to adjust to him. I hope he’s a ROY candidate – that will mean the Cubs have ineherited an unexpected gift this year. If he keeps this up, is he a playoff starter over either Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, or Harden?
by DisCUBbobulated on Jul 1, 2009 9:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh geeze, relax.
We don’t need to be worrying about playoff starters from 4th place.
by ARob1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
winning playoff games is pretty much all I care about this year..
I am very interested to see if Wells can be a pitcher who adjusts to batters in big games.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jul 1, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta agree with ARob here . . . let's get to .500 first
Then talk about 3rd place, then 2nd, etc.
Worrying about post-season rotations for a team in 4th with a losing record is kinda silly.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, too
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Wells has been fantastic.
It will be an interesting test when he faces some teams for the 2nd time and sees the adjustments. I may be wrong, but I don’t think he has faced the same team twice yet?
by DudeVf11 on Jul 2, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct
He will face the Atlanta for the 2nd time in his next start.
by desmoCubbie on Jul 2, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, are you kidding?
(Thanks, Milton, for the pair of walks tonight, I guess — though I thought we signed you to be a big bat in that cleanup spot. Glad you bumped up your OBA.)
So you’re upset with his 2 walks tonight? Let me help you with something here. With those 2 walks, Bradley’s WPA tonight was .017. You know who that’s better than? Well I’ll give you a list:
Soto
Fox
Theriot
Hoffpauir
Blanco
So complain about them. You don’t need to take a cheap shot at a guy who actually contributed to the win tonight.
by ARob1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:18 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Two walks is good. And Bradley has been hitting the ball lately. I think he's a keeper.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 1, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess.
I just figure a guy making the money he is making to be a middle-of-the-order bat should have more than 17 RBI on July 1.
I’m still not impressed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we have to do this RBI thing every night?
I’m going to hold off, since I don’t see a point in re-hashing it, but it’s just a stupid stat to complain about. Anyway, I think it’s out of line for you to say Bradley is just “bumping up his OBA” as if it’s just some selfish act. Those walks helped the team, and they came in two very good at bats.
by ARob1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let those AB turn into hits with RISP and I'll be a lot happier with him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walks aren't actually AB...
But either way, there’s no reason to be complaining about what he did tonight. I honestly believe you don’t like him, and it seems like you have a personal agenda in attacking him every night. I have a feeling that if he got a game winning hit, you would just post something snarky that half gives credit.
by ARob1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, then I'd give him full credit.
And you’re right, I was against the signing before it happened, and I have yet to see anything that changes my mind.
If something does, I’ll be happy to admit it.
You’re nitpicking with your “AB” comment. Of course, it should have been plate appearances.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the thing
What we’ve seen from you until this point is your hellbent ways about not giving a crap about anything Milton Bradley does. You said you ‘gave him a chance’ and I seriously doubt that.
Do us all a favor, leave it alone until the end of the year then you can shove it in our faces, but until the second half is over you’re spinning your own wheels.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jul 1, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The season's almost halfway over. Let's take a look at his highlights.
Milton Bradley is being paid 30 million dollars to hit around .240 with 17 RBI’s. He has not hit left-handed whatsoever. He has had several of his infamous “strains.” He has been suspended. He has thrown a live ball into the stands after losing track of the number of outs in the middle of an inning. He has been involved in a heated altercation with the manager of the ballclub and subsequently been sent home mid-game. He has publicly stated, essentially, that he doesn’t feel happy here. He has accused MLB umpires of plotting against him.
If Al doesn’t like him at this point, well, that seems like a pretty fair shake to me.
He has taken his walks. Walks are good. Is a .355 OBP enough to overcome his other shortcomings? For 30 million dollars?
No.
"I wouldn't know a steroid from a reefer." -Lou Piniella
by TheTruth11 on Jul 1, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
He isn't going to make $30M
Bradley will never play enough games to get that 3rd season guaranteed, so technically he’s only going to make $20M.
by tripdenten on Jul 2, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he will.
That’s the unfortunate thing. He only needs to play in 14 more games to get the third season guaranteed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Darn.
What is the # of games he needs to play? Is it only 75? I thought it was something like 125. That is unfortunate.
by tripdenten on Jul 2, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it is. 75 games.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
umm... he's only being paid $9M for that .240 and 17 RBIs
you’ll have to wait until the end of 2011 to judge if you got your $30M worth out of him.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot his frequent "brain farts" on the basepaths
and his desire to go unnoticed and unbothered while picking up a nearly $20,000 WEEKLY paycheck…
How dare anyone question “The Mighty Favog”?
(BCB bonus points for anyone who knows this reference…
and no fair Googling…)
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jul 2, 2009 6:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Muppet Show - Land of Gorch
It is so sad I know that.
Al to ESPN on Opening Day: "Hey. Guys. PSST. The 100-year thing? We know. WE KNOW. WE FREAKING KNOW. Can you guys knock it off now?"
by CubSteve on Jul 2, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the heated altercation where the manager subsequently apologized to him?
Way to be objective.
He hasn’t performed the way anyone — himself included — wanted to. Hopefully, that changes. You can’t just decide, after less than 1/2 of his first season, that he’s a bust.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the manager apologized for one thing that was said
Not for removing him from the game.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevertheless
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's an important distinction
By not pointing out that Lou wasn’t entirely apologetic, you’re letting Bradley off the hook for all the tirades he’s had this season.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which
if I’m recalling properly, is two.
The one where he took the bat to the gatorade dispenser, and the one at the Cell.
o.0
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
depends on how we define 'tirade'
Broken bats over knees? Getting tossed by umpires? Refusing to talk to the media? Alleging conspiracy theories?
It just seems that your default position is to defend Cubs players even when it’s pretty obvious that they’re being jerks. I totally agree that Milton has more than two years to turn things around, and I’m rooting for him to do so.
But by glazing over significant on-field issues, you’re not being very objective.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think I’m glazing over significant on-field issues, and neither is Bradley. He takes full responsibility for his on-field issues.
Arguing with the ump, when you’re right, isn’t a tirade. breaking a bat over your knee isn’t a tirade. Refusing to talk to the media isn’t a tirade. Thinking that you’re being treated unfairly isn’t a tirade.
Taking a bat to the gatorade cooler and smashing things for three minutes, that’s a tirade (See: Dempster, Ryan). Having to be physically removed from the basepaths for arguing with an ump is a tirade (See: Theriot, Ryan). Arguing with the ump for five minutes is a tirade (see, Zambrano, Carlos — and I loved every second of it). Jumping the dugout fence and arguing with an ump after being thrown out of a game you weren’t even playing in is a tirade (See: Lilly, Ted, also see: manager, punched).
He’s passionate, he hates it when he plays poorly, he wants to prove himself, perhaps too much. I don’t give a damn who he talks to, I don’t give a damn who he feels is conspiring against him. I lean towards believing him over everyone else every day I see him take more and more crap for things that he didn’t do, or things that he does that no one else gets crap for.
The only VALID complaint Cubs fans have about Bradley is his lack of play, and he has aired that complaint about himself OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
No, Drew ...
I think you’re overstating — which is fine. But there are more valid complaints against Bradley than performance. Most of them STEM from his frustration about his lack of performance.
I’d say publicly venting about an umpire conspiracy against you IS a tirade. Also, we’re not talking about one broken bat or one argument with an umpire — ala Dempster and Lilly. We’re talking about a streak of outbursts. I agree that Zambrano is in the same category as Bradley, but that’s not a great defense for Milton.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
make up your mind
is it an outburst or is it a tirade?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, we're kind of picking at nits, aren't we?
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really.
words have meaning. I prove that what Bradley is doing isn’t a “series of tirades”, you start calling them outbursts. Those goalposts are on wheels.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Badger's right ...
you’ve got your defend the Cubs goggles on. I admire your energy and enthusiasm. I hope Milton plays up to the defense you’re giving him.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree with Drew on this one. You can't condemn Milton
for his behavior and give the rest of the team a free pass. If Lou didn’t like the outburst, he should have addressed it earlier to all of the members of the team. To jump on Milton at that time was disengenuous and Lou correctly apologized. Obviously, Lou and everone else has a problem with Milton’s production, but you can’t point to the isolated incidents of his outburst and relate that to his on-field production. It doesn’t wash.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 2, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou apologized for his choice of words
And besides Zambrano, has anyone had as many outbursts (sorry, Drew) as Bradley?
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
if we’re supposing that there are “outbursts” we don’t know about, then isn’t it entirely possible that Derrek Lee is overturning tables in the clubhouse nightly?
I hear that Sam Fuld is tripping guys who walk into the shower.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said ANYTHING
about outbursts that we don’t know about, Drew.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
but Shanghai did. Am I having one conversation with three or four people, or three or four conversations each with one person?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you picked at me about ...
outbursts versus tirades. I think I can call you out when you misquote me.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't misquote you
I simply included different comments in the discussion. I apologize if you felt that I was attributing Shanghai’s words to you inappropriately.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
For what it’s worth, I don’t think we should assume Milton is an ass behind closed doors. I was very careful to avoid saying that.
Which was why your comment ticked me off. But we cool now. :)
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. I didn't say secret tirades
Piniella said he’s done it more than once.
Why is that so freaking hard for you to accept?
I’m not out to get the guy, I don’t hate him, I don’t cheer against him.
HE’S DONE IT BEFORE. THE MANAGER SAID SO AND NO ONE DISPUTED IT.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where has Lou
talked about Milton having tirades that weren’t public? I don’t remember seeing anything about it. Lou said that he reacted to Braldey’s outburst at the WS game, but that he was really talking about everyone’s behavior.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget it
I really am done with this now. Because no matter what I say, you’ll look for some minutae to dispute, whether or not it has to do with the larger issue and claim it makes your point.
Because that’s what we’ve spent the last 20 minutes doing, and I’ve got better things to do. Or at least more fun things.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so now
you’ve made an assertion that you’re not backing up.
Ok.
I’m not looking to argue with you, man. If nothing else, it disturbs BLou’s assumption that we’re the same person. Or proves it. :P
But I think it’s very uncool to suggest that Lou was chastising Bradley for outbursts that we don’t know about and can’t support factually. If you’ve got an article where Lou talks about Bradley going off in the clubhouse where no one but the team ,saw, then fine, I’ll be happy to read it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prove it. I'll wait.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I can’t, of course.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't apologize for the actions
In fact, he reiterated that he felt it was right.
He apologized for the profanity in the tunnel.
He also said it wasn’t isolated with Bradley.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yet here we are
arguing over Bradley. Why is that?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I was replying to WMHG
I can’t have this discussion with you anymore, at least not now.
You staunchly refuse to be reasonable on the topic and jump over anything in a comment while avoiding the larger issue.
Your comment above about Fuld tripping people and Lee throwing things pretty much settles it for me that you’re not going to be objective, so I don’t wish to continue the discussion at this time. I really don’t want this to get ugly.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the thing is
I feel that I have been VERY reasonable about this topic.
I do not see how you can deny that Milton Bradley has been taken to task for things that other players get away with, by the press, by Al, by commenters, by Cubs fans in general. It’s staring you right in the face.
And when you can’t support your argument, you suggest that the Cubs are really angry at Bradley for his SEKRIT CLUBHOUSE FITS!
Come ON. Be upset with him for his poor play. I — and Bradley himself — join you. But the rest of this, it’s BS, inflated by the media to sell papers.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right ...
because the media told Milton to go home in the middle of Friday’s game. And the media suspended Milton for arguing with an umpire.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not at all
but Lou apologized for his comments to Bradley, and Milton’s suspension was reduced, and if Lee had had that argument with the ump, everyone would have been up in arms over it.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not "inflated to sell papers"
reporting on the actual events surrounding Milton is good copy.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if only
that is what was happening.
But I don’t believe that it is. Publishing an article that asks “will Milton Bradley be booed before his first at bat at Wrigley” is NOT reporting on actual events surrounding Milton. Neither is treating his altercations with umpires different than other Cubs’ altercations with umpires.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what article said he'd be booed before his first at-bat?
If one exists, I’d love to see the link.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all I can find is this
Which refers to a Sun-Times article which is no longer available.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did also find this
http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/bauman/2009/01/who_will_milton_bradley_kill_f.html
But that refers to something else, and isn’t exactly something lots of Chicagoans would have seen.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, I see ...
the articles were posing the question, not making a prediction.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are soooo close
to the edge -→
I haz comedy show in August. You come seez it please?: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 2, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure
but based off of dubious journalism…
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Done discussing this
This isn’t fun anymore.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was my point, Badger. This never should have
be directed at Bradley. Lou had had enough of the entire team behaving this way, but many took it as indictment of Lou’s feling towards Bradley’s performance on the field. That was clearly not the case.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 2, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree in the big picture
Supposedly this happened more than once with Bradley. That was my point.
But the discussion went off the tracks long ago.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right. I don't even remember
what the hell we were talking about.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 2, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never knew in the first place.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where are we, anyway?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 2, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"We're on a road to nowhere..."
btw – how do you guys get those musical notes in text form?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold down the Alt key...
…while typing 13. That will give you this: ♪ 14 gives you this: ♫
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daver beat me to it
Ha! Musical beats! Anyway, there are a lot of other characters, too.
Like this.
ƒ▼♣◘
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's fun to play around with.
• ◘ ○ § ↨ ↑ ↓
Interestingly, Alt 54 = 6
Why not just use the 6 key?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed that, too
One day, I’ll be bored enough to find out how many combinations there are until it restarts.
Does letters, too. Odd . . .
☼☺○
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's fun to play around with.
• ◘ ○ § ↨ ↑ ↓
Interestingly, Alt 54 = 6
Why not just use the 6 key?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm... I need a Mac translation
I don’t have a plain “alt” key – it shares space with “option” key.
Here’s what I’m getting so far
⁄‹ ⁄› and ¡£ ¡¢. Not exactly musical notes, but then again, neither is my voice…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, it's gonna be a loooong day
til the Brewers game, ain’t it, ballhawk?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 2, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS - Macs rule
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 2, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yabbut I just had a chocolate covered donut
to commemorate the visit of his royal bigness Prince Fielder.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this agreement
That is part of why an apology from Lou was due.
by vonde6 on Jul 2, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it's two
It’s two that we know about.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, give me a BREAK!
now he’s secretly having tirades???
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you HONESTLY believe that everything that happens gets reported to drewishdrewid of BCB?
Piniella commented that the helmet thing had happend 4 or 5 times already.
Stuff happens that we don’t know about. You think Piniella has it out for Bradley, so he benched him because of ONE incident?
Really?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Bradley
was benched at all.
Words have meaning. Slamming down a helmet — which Al complained about some other player getting suspended for a few weeks ago — is not a tirade.
The definition of tirade: a protracted speech usually marked by intemperate, vituperative, or harshly censorious language. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tirade).
Basically, what you guys are saying is that you don’t want Bradley to react to anything, unless it’s happy smiles and cupcakes.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew, that's not what we're saying
And you know it.
You’re often one to defend Lou’s actions. In a way, that’s what we’re doing here. Lou acted after he thought Milton had blown up too often.
Frankly, I agree with Lou. That doesn’t mean I don’t want Milton to do well, however.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
Lou thought at all.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he was
He was removed from the game and sent home.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
benched, to me...
is more than three innings. He was in the starting lineup the next day.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fascinating. You complained yourself about nitpicking.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Props to you for the acknowledgement
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, come on
Where did I say that?
I really respect the fact that you and I can disagree without being disagreable with each other – but you’ve got the “Cub defender goggles” on here.
Bradley WAS benched – he was sent home, too. The manager was fed up with the slamming stuff from him.
Go ahead and get hung up on semantics; you didn’t answer the question.
Do you honestly believe that you know everything that Bradley has done that would reasonably piss Cub personnel off?
Because if you do, then it follows that Piniella has an agenda against Bradley. Do you believe that, too?
Incidentally, I find it interesting that you consistenly bring up Zambrano getting different treatment when this topic comes up – yet you’re one of the staunchest defenders of his actions, too.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where did you say that?
Right here:
You think Piniella has it out for Bradley, so he benched him because of ONE incident?
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/7/1/934984/sam-fuld-leads-cubs-to-4-1-win#17711740
Bradley was not benched. He was in the lineup the next day!
I do not believe that Piniella has an agenda against Bradley. I do believe that we know about most of Bradley’s “outbursts/tirades/etc”.
I like players with passion. You and I have long disagreed on the effects of Z’s passion.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Drew. Where did I say he can't react.
Instead of answering the question, you are picking at semantics.
This is going nowhere; a bit disapointing.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you complain
about his reactions — even the ones we don’t know about.
o.0
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew, you're an amazing man......
you are never wrong
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bull, and you know it
I admit when I’m wrong. I’ve done it in the past. And you should talk — you just transferred your dissing of Lee to Soriano.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong again....
I’ve dissed Soriano since day one
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh-huh.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an example from April my friend......
Soriano……………………..
by Clutche on Apr 11, 2009 7:14 PM CDT on Overflow Thread 1: Cubs vs. Brewers, Saturday 4/11, 6:05 CT
best LF in baseball? Come on……runner on first takes third on a single to left. He sucks!!
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yawn
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are one word expressions your way of saying..............
I’m wrong
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
my one word expressions are my way of saying you’re wrong.
I’m sorry. I was wrong. You’ve been a Soriano hater from the start. Feel better?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think you'd feel better......
that you manned-up. Kudos.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
“manned up”
what a ridiculous phrase.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh
Man up is so 2008. Next thing you know we’ll be bringing back “all in”
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 2, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So is "Cubs Win" unfortunately
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't go there!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or a you just tired.........
from arguing with everyone this morning?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me crazy...
But give me a guy that’s vocally and visibly upset about not pulling his weight any day.
Anyone can slump. And Milton is not the only guy in pinstripes right now in the midst of one. But I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a professional athlete counter it with anything but abject apathy. This guy clearly wants to earn his keep, so personally, instead of booing him, like most of this famously pathological fanbase is doing, I’m giving him the latitude.
by BT Ichib on Jul 2, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't agree more
Bradley might be struggling, but who isn’t? D Lee is hitting the ball, and that’s about it. The previous right fielder(KF) hit under .200 for June. If he’s not your cup of tea Al, I get it. This whole team sucks and thankfully so has the rest of the division. As of today, Lee is picking it up, Bradley seems to be warming up, Fukudome had a good game in CF and the rooks seem to be making themselves comfortable. This team cannot afford to be bound by big $$ and must play to win. Or else, I’ll be back here reading what you have to say and watching their pathetic performances on a regular basis because I am a Cubs fan and we are all a little f’d up for sticking with this team even though they cause me nothing but grief except for the times when they send me to euphoria, as I am an unbalanced human being. (deep breath)
At what point, and I doubt tonight’s hat throw does anything, does Lou have to take responsibility for this team? This is a team of proven grade A ballplayers, and even without Ramirez, they’ve looked like a AA team. He’s said many times, “I put a lineup together and they’re supposed to play”. If that is the case, I would have done it for two season tickets. OK, one. You drive a hard bargain.
In response to TheTruth11 post below, the Cubs knew what they were getting with Bradley, and both Hendry and Pinella seemed comfortable with the signing and Lou has failed. Up to this point. Tonight’s game proved, to me at least, that this team is ready to step it up.
PS, Derosa’s OBP is .334. I liked him too, but the #‘s don’t lie. You can’t score unless you’re on base. Just sayin’
by DEEEIP on Jul 1, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree that the Cubs "knew what they were getting" with Bradley.
They signed him to be a middle of the order run producer. He isn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's never been someone who drives in a ton of runs
Although he generally scores a decent number of them. I don’t think they were expecting an RBI machine (or, if they did, they were being dumb). They were probably not expecting 17 RBI at this point either.
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that case, I think they were being dumb.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true. And for this Hendry should be
faulted.
However, it’s reasonable for us to want him to play, at a minimum, to his career averages and actually be a switch hitter.
If he was doing those things, we would have no right to complain about him, just Jimbo for overpaying him.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except his career averages are over the course of a full season, and not just half.
Too early to say he won’t hit those averages, although he’s going to have to have a much better second half to do it.
If he lives up to his career averages, we did NOT overpay for his production. And if we make the playoffs and he goes on a tear, nobody is going to be upset if he had a down year. So let’s wait and see before we judge his entire contract to be a failure.
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not looking for an argument, but Bradley's career averages do not equate to a contract
for $10M per. His 2008 performance warranted, but his career did not.
I’m just saying it’s not Bradley’s fault he was offered a great contract. His career 162 game averages per BR are: .278/.369/.452 with 86 runs, 33 2B, 20 HR, 77 RBI, 77 BB. However, he’s never played 162 games in any year. Pro-rate that production to 120 games and it’s 64 runs, 24 2B, 15 HR, 57 RBI, 57 BB. link
I’m saying if he gives his expected career production over the number of games I expect, the 120 game numbers AND can hit LH, I can’t bitch about Bradley. I can moan a little on a Cub GM rewarding another career year.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given the current contracts we have on our team
At this point I’m more worried about the money we’ve given to Fukodome, Soriano, and Miles . . . not to mention the players we’ve paid to not play for the team. Milton being a couple of million overpaid would more or less be par for the course for this team.
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fully agree, but
it’s not one player or waiting out the contract on one player. It’s having the next 5 years tied to large NTC contracts where the GM bid against himself.
I can’t complain about production if the player (Bradley/Soriano, etc) matches career average production.
Hendry has done a lot of good in his time as GM, I’m fearful he (hearts reference) tried to shoot the moon for 2008, 2009, 2010 and the talent petered out faster than he planned.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has not yet been.
two and a half years seasons to go.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference between...
“He isn’t’ and “He hasn’t been.” I think the latter is more accurate.
In other words, he hasn’t been…yet. History suggests he will be though.
For all the talk about people being open to change their minds on Bradley…they’ll never get there if they refuse to acknowledge that it takes a while to overcome early struggles in your “season stat” numbers.
By continually pointing to the season stat line, if makes it awful convenient to ignore the improvement in performance from month to month…which is what Bradley has been doing.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 2, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RISP
And just how, exactly, is Milton supposed to drive in runners from scoring position when nobody’s on base?
Both of his selfish walks last night came when he led off the inning. Sorry to interrupt your agenda by pointing out this fact.
by Mike D. on Jul 2, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MB is hitting .060 points below his career average with RISP
.205 versus .263. While the Cubs stink at getting runners on, he’s not close to his career when they are there either.
Don’t understand the agenda comment.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm referring to last night
And Al’s smarmy implication that Bradley is selfish for driving up his OBA (sic)
My point is that as a leadoff, the only runners he had a chance to drive in existed in his head.
by Mike D. on Jul 2, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever heard of hyperbole?
Apparently not.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smarmy?
Milty’s had 50 plate appearances with RISP, 39 official at bats and is hitting a paltry .205.
His average with RISP should be higher. If he’s a middle of the order hitter, his RBI total should be higher.
Agreed, he’s shown no hitting approach normal to the #4 or #5 spot.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A whole FIFTY at-bats?
Wow. With samples sizes like that, I can so why you possess so much conviction.
Do you also walk out of movies halfway through?
I’m by no means a rabid Milton Bradley fan, but I think the urge to jump on his nuts seem rather pre-meditated. Using one of the more nebulous stats like RISP, particualarly with such a small sample size speaks to this.
Me? I’m willing to give the guy more than 3 months (in which he’s played roughly 2) before I run him out oftown on a rail.
by Mike D. on Jul 2, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have often...
… even when I’ve criticized Milton, said I’m willing to admit I’m wrong if he turns it around.
Yes, leading off innings with walks is a useful skill. I know that’s one of Bradley’s strengths. All I’ve been saying is that the contract the Cubs gave him was commensurate with a guy who should be a middle-of-the-order power bat.
I’ve seen none of that yet.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm merely saying there's still time.
To quote your old mantra, Al, “Patience”.
I’ll be willing to call this Candy Maldonado Part Two if his numbers on the first of August are no better than what they are on the first of July. By any objective analysis, however, one shouldn’t be surprised if he progresses to his career norm, at least somewhat. I’m going to hang my hat on that for now and reserve any sweeping, scorched-earth proclamations. In the meantime, I see no reason to belittle his ability to take a walk. That just reeks of Dusty Baker “Clogging the bases” idiocy.
by Mike D. on Jul 2, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't ignoring this response, been busy.
I’m certainly not a proponent of the Baker philosophy. I just think that the dollars spent and the return so far on Bradley have been a complete waste of time.
If he does return to those career norms, great — because the Bradley proponents will have been right, and the team should do better. I’ll be happy to admit I was wrong.
I won’t hold my breath waiting, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have seats down the right field line Friday...........
so I’ll let Bradley know you’re pulling for him, and remind him that I don’t think Al can hold his breath much longer.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Run out of town?
I said his average with RISP should be higher and he should have more RBIs as a middle of the order hitter, whether from hitting with RISP, extra base hits driving guys from first, or home runs.
So, it’d be okay with you if he was worse?
If you’ve read any of my other comments today, I believe Bradley not producing as a middle of the order hitter is more a criticism on Hendry’s analysis than Bradley’s skills.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if I haven't read your comments?
I was initially responding to Al when you jumped in with your blather about RISP, which I think is, overall, a poor metric by which to assess players. Nonetheless, you appear to be making the mistake that every word I wrote was directly in response you. It wasn’t. Sorry for the confusion.
I’m not about to wade through everyone’s comments before I qualify my own. Al is the one who suggested the Cubs get rid of Bradley and it is that notion that I had in mind when I made my “run out of town” comment. Nonetheless, i’ve grown weary of this discussion and have no intention of pursuing it further. Feel free to have the last word.
by Mike D. on Jul 2, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is that a stupid stat to complain about?
He has 17 RBI as a middle of the order bat. That’s PATHETIC, plain and simple. In fact, I don’t think we talk about RBIs enough on this board. Our lack of RBIs is precisely our problem; we get hits, we just can’t drive em in.
That’s not a stupid stat; it’s the ballgame for us.
by reedjohnson on Jul 1, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Dunn has 56 RBI. Just sayin’, that woulda looked nice.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 1, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RBI's are a stupid stat to complain of
It’s a terrible metric.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jul 1, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
I meant to say RBI’s are a stupid stat and warrant their complaints. Sorry.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jul 1, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
But when you’re comparing 17 RBIs to 30, 40, 50, or 60 of comparable guys, it’s a pretty obvious problem for our team and especially for Milton Bradley.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 1, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
.360 OBP
and a .270-some BABIP. His slump has been a problem, but honestly as soon he breaks out of it (which should be around the time Ramirez comes back) this team is going to tear the living shiet of of….everything.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jul 1, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good. That BABIP should be up to .320 or higher by the end of the year, if GameBoard doesn't suck ass
and we can continue to get production from Lee and typical Aramis back. That’s a good 3-4-5 if. If.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 1, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you got it my friend
Barring some act of god we’re not going to worry about ‘If’.The odds are just….just not likely.
" I hate that lady , but would totally do her. So strange is this mind of mens." - Skisgaar Skwigelf
by Rage and Grace on Jul 1, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad his metrics are to your approval.
If you happen to be correct and he does break out of it, I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously.
Wins are a stupid stat. RBI’s aren’t perfect, but they are certainly representative of this club’s struggles.
"I wouldn't know a steroid from a reefer." -Lou Piniella
by TheTruth11 on Jul 1, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But not necessarily Bradley’s struggles. You can’t drive then in if they just aren’t there.
by DEEEIP on Jul 1, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me, then, why the Cubs rank dead last in BA with RISP.
The runners ARE there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where can we look up Milton's BA with RSP?
The team stranding runners isn’t the same as Milton stranding them.
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's at .205 this year, .263 average for career
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
Wish I knew why our team was so “unclutch” this year.
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it either.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they are dead last with RISP
but aren’t they also ranked 28th in having RISP?
I pulled up the espn stats and sorted for RISP and am I reading it correctly. Filtered for “Scoring Position” it shows 214 total bases, 28th in MLB, followed only by Seattle and San Diego. BA for RISP is dead last at .216. Link
Baltimore in contrast is first in BA with RISP of .299 and 9th in TB with 289.
I don’t read the runners as being there. I read the Cubs as struggling to get RISP and really struggling when they appear.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is the runners are there but they just aren't there often enough.
If I’m not mistaken, RISP stats are typically dubious because they’re based on such small samples.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See my post above. Did I read those numbers correctly?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It looks like you are reading them correctly...
…and your conclusion makes sense to me. Maybe a bona fied sabermagician can weigh in.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A team can't suck both at BA with RISP and having runners in RISP
and hope to compete. If they can’t reach the mendoza line for BA, they’d better put more runners in RISP to make up for it. Substitute the quality for some quantity.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should add, we could expect this team to be better when
they are in scoring position.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's still not impressed, and then there's harping on it
also, there is literally nothing that annoys me more than “he’s making the money to be more productive!” If someone can actually point to me a study that shows more money=more production, I’ll shut up about it, but until then, it’s a ridiculous comment.
Also, I’m not Milton Bradley fan, but that’s because I don’t believe he was the best guy out there when we signed him, but what the Cubs signed him for, and what he can actually do might simply be two entirely different things. If the Cubs had signed Alfonso Soriano to be a gold glove defender in left field, who should you be mad at because he wasn’t?
by WanderingWanderer on Jul 1, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley only has 184 ABs. I'm guessing we might also complain about our left fielder
who has 32 RBIs in over 300 ABs and who makes a LOT more money. Just sayin’….
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not impressed with Soriano right now, either.
I’ll wait & see whether the return of Ramirez lets him relax and hit the way he can.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
both Soriano
and Bradley have a long track record of success. They should both be afforded the wait and see approach. Bradley probably is a better hitter historically (though Soriano has a little more power), so if anything Bradley is more likely to turn it around. People may have figured out they just need to never throw Soriano anything middle in and he’ll never hit it hard again. Bradley probably has a little better approach.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 1, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley has a better approach than Soriano...ha ha
That’s because Soriano has no approach whatsoever at the plate.
by reedjohnson on Jul 1, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps if Lou.....
batted Sori before Rami or Lee he would see more fastballs
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milton Bradley was signed to help the Cubs win baseball games. Drawing walks helps teams score runs which in turn, helps teams win baseball games. Simple 1st grade logic would then dictate: drawing walk = good
by scrappywhiteguy on Jul 1, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'm saying.
Al, I know it’s your blog, but a little more objectivity would be nice.
by ARob1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would also think that since he has been in a horrible hitting slump all season, he would be given credit for still being able to contribute offensively by taking BB’s, while he works through this funk. But I don’t have an irrational vendetta against MB either.
by scrappywhiteguy on Jul 1, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't a lot of Cubs fans complain
about swinging at the first pitch, bad at-bats, etc?
Then why the hell are you bitching about Bradley getting walks and having patient at-bats?
Chicago Cubs fans: The most neurotic in professional sports.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 2, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"You" not being scrappywhiteguy
but “you” being Al and others who seem to value patient at-bats selectively.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 2, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like patient at-bats.
Bradley isn’t being paid to take walks.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why did we all love Fukodome last year for teaching the team how to be patient then?
And how is it a problem if Bradley exhibits the same kind of patience we loved so much with Dome?
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, it's not rubbing off the way it did last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is that Bradley's fault?
He’s getting on base any way he can. Isn’t that his job?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. When they play over their heads, and when they play under the gutter. When they win the division, and then get swept in the division series. When they get no-hitters and when they blow no-hitters. And some day, when they go all the way and get those rings. This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, his job is to hit in the middle of the order and drive in runs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His job is to help the team win
He did that last night.
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 2, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, yeah, it's his blog, and he has a right to say whatever he wants
Al has been far more objective and positive than most, so I think you’re a bit ridiculous for asking for more objectivity from someone who runs a fan blog. Like, what do you want him to say? Geez, this isn’t the AP we’re talking about here.
by Craig in South Bend on Jul 2, 2009 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, you know money is not a measure of a player's ability
It’s what the team determined to be his signable, market value at that given moment.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Cubs overpaid for Bradley.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 2, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you say that...........
when he’s only played 3 mo of a 3 yr contract?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because comparable free agents got less
Even if Bradley plays great from here on out, Bobby Abreu is making $5 million, and Dunn is only guaranteed two years (whereas Milton’s about to be guaranteed three).
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If over the course of the next three years he outperformes Abreu and Dunn.....
then your argument/comparison doesn’t apply
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would have to outperform them by a lot
I’m still pulling for Milton. But the fact is that he got more — compared with Abreu, a LOT more — than other lefty corner outfielders who are putting up better numbers.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree......
and I hope he does
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Milton's been overpaid compared to Bobby
But why is it necessarily a bad thing that we have him under contract for 3 years instead of Dunn’s 2?
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too soon to draw that conclusion
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not too early to say Milton
got more money than anyone else. That is fact.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the best thing to do given that is to root for him to end up being worth the investment.
At the end of the contract, we will know for sure. Remember Alou?
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree with you
My point is that Hendry probably overpaid.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably is
key word here
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the thing
Can Milton perform so much better than the other free-agents available last winter that his contract — one of several that will bind the Cubs hands until 2012 — won’t look too high? Sure.
But Hendry probably could have paid less for Bradley OR less for one of the other corner guys available last year. That will be important if this team fails and a shakeup is needed in the offseason.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
delete "probably" from the second graph
There’s no question that Hendry could have paid less than $30 million over three years (with the option) to get one of the corner guys.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.....
but that doesn’t mean it’s a better deal until we see how each performs over the next few years
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's hoping
I just wish Hendry would have found a way to get Milton for less. I think he could have.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, there's probably some question
see my response below for more details.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely correct.....
the question is will he earn it?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's easy ...
if he doesn’t improve, we’ll wish we only had Milton for two years.
I know the opposite is true. But based purely on the amount of money he received, Milton got more money than other comparable free agents.
by elgato on Jul 2, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have to look at the timing as well
Here’s how it shook out for the Four Corner Offense (Ibanez, Bradley, Dunn, Abreu) this past-offseason.
Ibanez (12/16/08) – 3 yrs, $31.5M
Bradley (1/6/09) – 3 yrs, $30M (let’s just assume the 3rd year will vest)
Dunn (2/11/09) – 2 yrs, $20M
Abreu (2/11/09) – 1 yr, $5M
So Ibanez actually got a little more and Dunn the same but one less year. You could make the case that Dunn will make more in year 1 of his next contract than Bradley will in year 3. Dollar-wise, the only real bargain here is Abreu.
Should Hendry have waited out the market and tried to get a better price? Perhaps, but the selection would have diminished. I can only imagine the howling on here in February and March if Hendry had let the other GMs make the decision for him and we had ended up with Abreu by default.
In my opinion, Dunn has performed as expected. Ibanez has overachieved and Bradley underachieved. As for Abreu, well, I must admit the $5M price tag does look nice, but I’d still rather have any of the other three than Abreu. Yes, even Bradley.
Regardless, year 1 is only half over – let’s check back in October. And next year and the year after as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reasonable assessments like this will get you nowhere.
Might I suggest the Caps Lock?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 2, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right of course.
I really should channel my inner Austin Powers right after the unfreezing process
Yes… I’m having difficulty controlling THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
May I suggest...
…BILLY MAYS!!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 2, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jul 2, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the other thing on this
I don’t think the market would have fallen off the way it did so long as the Cubs were still out there shopping. Abreu signed for less because the Angels already had a full OF when they signed him and no incentive to pay big when they were already paying Sarge Jr.
Plus, Abreu’s not showing power this year anyway, so from the “Walks don’t help us” perspective, he’s really no better than Bradley.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 2, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is reply to Clutche.
How can you not say Bradley was overpaid?
See my post above. Did we expect Bradley to play 162 games? If so, his 162 game production (career average) of 20 HR and 77 RBI doesn’t smell like a $10M a year player. If he was only expected to play 120 games, those numbers fall even more.
If you agree Bradley was paid on 2008, he was overpaid.
Right now, I want to see him play to his career. I don’t care about 2008 anymore.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't say he's been overpaid.............
until he fulfills his contract and his performance to that end will determine if , in fact, he was overpaid
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 2, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see two different judgements from this discussion.
1 is a judgement of Bradley which can’t be made until the contract runs out. Someone offered him the dollars and he took it. His compensation is for future performance.
Hendry analyzed Bradley’s past performance and the market to determine the contract offer for Bradley. It is fair to say Hendry overpaid by putting too much credence in Bradley’s 2008 numbers, and misjudged the free agent market.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 2, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, unfortunately the Cubs over pay
for most free agents they sign. Then on top of it they throw in a no-trade clause.
by cubdreamer on Jul 2, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I dunno... we have a leadoff hitter who puts up middle of the order numbers
seems to make as about much sense as a middle of the order guy putting up leadoff numbers…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 2, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought OBA was why we got him?
He had the highest in AL last year.
Anyway he can contribute is good with me! Especially since Hoffpauer seems to be slowing down even if he gets some great clutch hits.
by ak123 on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was signed to balance the order
by jesus christos on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am baffled also
If Milton is supposed to have a great OBA, OPS, SLG, OPS+, which leads to runs scored, Why has never scored more than 80 runs in a season, and a RBI high of 80, and twice over 20 homeruns?
I guess he gets hurt alot.
I hope the Cubs have a great second half and Milton goes off.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jul 1, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You realize that rbi and runs scored are dependant upon a player's teammates, right?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jul 1, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
Then why did the Cubs sign Bradley is my point. If RBI’s and runs scored is dependent on teammates, then don’t sign Bradley and start Fuld/Taguchi in right and have great gloves.
Everyone talks about all this OBP,OPS,SLG garbage, then I make the point he has never scored 80 runs, had an RBI year of over 80 once, 20 homeruns twice in 9 freaking years, then I get “well you know RBI’s and runs scored is dependent on teammates”
Well what is it? Why the love for Bradley? What does this guy do. He gets alot of walks lately, well thank-you very much. Hell with knocking a run in once in awhile, Oh thats right RBi’s doesn’t mean anything. How many freaking times has he come up and failed to knock in a run. To many, and yes besides Lee the whole team has. However he is getting paid a ton to do what all of you says he doesn’t have to do.
Just nuts.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jul 2, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a question for Jim Hendry, and not Milton Bradley.
I wouldn’t say there’s very much love for him, but people are making him sound like a scapegoat for the Cub’s problems. Most of us are simply saying two things: 1) you can more or less look across the entire Cubs lineup for players who are struggling to get on base and RBI and 2) give him more than half a season before you judge his signing as a failure.
by madcow256 on Jul 2, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So sad about Soriano's pathetic defense and offense too!
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
by DrCrawdad on Jul 13, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sam Fuld....Pffft!
So Taguchi would’ve had three hits at least. :-p
Okay, I’ll give props to Mr. Fuld for tonight’s sparky performance. Hope he keeps it up. In addition, Randy Wells continues to impress. And he was safe, for the record.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
by Goodie1969 on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Go Fuld!
Let’s hope he keeps this up!
by TheHawkRules on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theoretically the Cubs could be in first place by Sunday night :)
Lets do it! Turn this pitiful season around.
by jeff_pico on Jul 1, 2009 9:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now THAT'S optimism!
Stranger things have happened…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jul 2, 2009 6:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing about Wells
I have a feeling he’s going to get overlooked for ROY unfortunately and that’s fine. Let him stay under the radar and get us wins!
by ak123 on Jul 1, 2009 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That'd be fine with me.
But seriously — other than Colby Rasmus, who is having a decent but not great year — name me one other NL rookie doing as well as Randy Wells.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 1, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't think of one
I haven’t followed the entire league as much as I did last year.
I think in 5 or 6 starts if he keeps it up then there will be more serious discussions.
As for people wanting him to be on the All Star Team. I think it would be interesting to see how he pitches in a high pressure situation (if they let him pitch). I’d rather see Lilly on the team though.
by ak123 on Jul 1, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazingly
we’ll probably get to see Jason Marquis on the All-Star team. One year late, but still…Marquis? Anyone who says they predicted this at the beginning of the season is lying.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
by Goodie1969 on Jul 1, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good for him then
He’s pitched well. He earned it then and even had he pitched that well last year he would have been overlooked by Wood, Zambrano and Dempster.
by ak123 on Jul 1, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe not this....but historically, he gets off to good starts
and turns attrocious after the all star break.
by WanderingWanderer on Jul 1, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Marquis...
if he keeps this up….would be a candidate for the Cy Young Award.
Unlikely, given his usual 2nd half fade.
But still, you have to give the guy his due.

by 

