Selig: Santo gave me the idea for ASG
by Worf on Jul 14, 2009 7:21 AM CDT
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PrintBud Selig has sunk even lower than I thought possible. He is now crediting Ron Santo and Hank Aaron for the asinine decision to link home-field to the All-Star Game.
On the Mike & MIke podcast yesterday, which I listened to at the gym this morning, Selig said the infamous tie is NOT the reason for the All-Star Game being linked to home-field. (LIAR!)
He said the year before, he visited his "dear friend' Ron Santo in the hospital and Ron told him that the game used to mean something and that Selig needed to create that "intensity" again. He said Hank Aaron told him the same thing.
So the festering cesspool that is now the All-Star Game was born.
Selig blathered on about how intense the game used to be and how Ted Williams broke his elbow in 1950 and kept playing.
I can't even imagine how livid I would be if Aramis or D. Lee were in this game, broke an elbow and kept playing.
This is an EXHIBITION game. Nothing of consequence should be tied to this thing. I have refused to watch it ever since they passed the rule and I will not watch tonight. I've got some History Channel stuff on TiVo.
I get not wanting a tie game. There is one simple fix. Relax the substitution rules. If pitchers and position players can come back in, you'll never run out of players. Bingo bango bongo. Done.
If you must tie this game to something in order to get players to take it seriously, fine. Put up some money and the winner donates it to charity.
And do NOT invoke the name of Santo and Aaron again, Selig.
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would the players union revolt
if the national league played their starters for six innings? try to win and get home field advantage.
but don’t play hurt guys.
You can't call Selig a liar....
… until you get corroboration from Santo and Aaron. Did they actually do this?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah I agree.
I’m not really a fan of Selig, but the hatred towards him (particularly on BCB) is over the top if you ask me.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
not really
this man has done numerous things to mess up the game over the years. he deserves all the bashing in the world
He has also done some really good things.
IE: creating the Wild Card
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
For the record
I am no fan of Selig either…we just need to be fair when criticizing him.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by DMCub on Jul 14, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. A point that a lot of people miss.
In a lot of forums, on a lot of topics.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 14, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
That's my ultimate point.
I feel like I’m constantly playing devil’s advocate on BCB. Being a die-hard fan doesn’t mean losing the ability to be objective.
In this case I’m saying that the poster is completely bashing Selig, yet doesn’t have any proof to his claim. Sorry but that seems unfair.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Yes, I completely agree with you
See it all the time. Some people bitch about non-Cub announcers, mainly because they aren’t rooting for the Cubs, it seems. Some can’t take any criticism of Cubs, etc.
You are absolutely right. You can like someone and dislike something they say or do, and the converse should also be true.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 14, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Point taken
IMHO the wild card is a good thing for baseball.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
ill argee on the wild card being good.
that is one of the few things I have liked from him, but read below for my full views on selig.
not sure if that is meant towards me, cant tell from the threading
but no, I never said he didn’t do anything good. I think Selig has done from a business stand point. He has helped make the MLB into the money making monster it is today. So from a business aspect I actually think he has done a good job. I have a problem with a few other things, and some things I don’t have the patience or time to go into a discussion about (his role in the steroid era for example) However, he has done some ridiculous things to the game in my eye. This whole all star game non sense being one them (the way he handled it with the tie, the nonsense “making it count” ect.) This inter league play is complete nonsense in my eyes and the way the leagues are set up now. I also hate the fact that he goes around giving horse shit answers. nothing is direct or he goes around blaming someone else. The wild card is something I like personally. I just hope the playoffs don’t get expanded again in the future where it ends up being half the teams being their like the NBA. It’s kind of like with Hendry. Sure Jim has done some great trades/signings but is it enough to out weigh the completely idiotic things he does? Too me Selig is just a coward who has done his fair share in ruining this great game of baseball.
Wow that was a long paragraph.
I guess your response earlier made it sound like he has never done any good and it’s all bad, therefore he deserves “all the bashing in the world.”
I agree with a lot of the criticism that gets thrown Bud’s way. But I just think it’s important to remember it’s not all negative.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Wait...
did he say that Santo and Aaron told him to make it count for home-field advantage or simply that it used to mean something? Of course the older players are going to say it used to mean something, because it actually did. That was the only time you could see Sandy Koufax pitch to Al Kaline until possibly the World Series.
The usual, inter-league play, ESPN highlights, players switching leagues through FA, etc, etc points are fairly valid when talking about the game losing it’s original cachet but there’s no rule that says it had to keep it. Leave it as an exhibition game (and popularity contest) and you’ll have fewer and fewer people complaining about it if you actually treat it as such.
Interleague play....
…has ruined the All Star game. There used to be a desire to prove that you were “the better league” and without interleague play, the AS game was the only place (except the eventual World Series) that you could do that. You used to face players that you never saw during the season. It was more interesting, more of a challenge. These days there’s no mystery in your opponents.
And I like how Selig ties comments by Santo/Aaron that “the game doesn’t mean anything anymore”, to a decision BY HIM to tie it World Series home field advantage. THEY DIDN"T SUGGEST THAT and I would be curious to find out how they actually feel about Selig’s decision to do that.
Sounds like Selig’s just deflecting blame on what he knows is a decision that didn’t quite work out as nicely as he thought it would.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
It's not just interleague play.
The leagues aren’t even “leagues” any more. There are no league presidents. Everything is centralized, including the umpiring crews, which used to be separate.
They are more like the AFC and NFC now than separate leagues.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
that's a good comparison...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 14, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions
And there is nothing wrong with that
I don’t see the NFL hurting.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
but it throws tradition out the window...
….and baseball, if anything, is about tradition.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 14, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
No, it's not
Interleague, DH, new parks, wild cards.
Baseball stopped being about tradition a long time ago.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Yeah, all those things you mentioned...
…is when the AS game started to become meaningless.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 14, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
You're probably right
And I don’t care. The excitement of interleague play, free agency and wild card FAR outweigh any damage done to an exhibition game.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Oh, I agree.....
…..growing up it was just cool to see the collection of stars on one baseball field. I didn’t really care who won or loss. Maybe it was important to the players, but it didn’t ruin my night if the National League lost.
I just wanted to see Bill Madlock pinch hit. Or Bruce Sutter get in the game. Or to see some AL stars who I never saw on TV (when TV wasn’t as prevalent).
These days, as back then, my favorite part of the game is when they do player introductions. The rest of the game…..meh.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 14, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Free Agencty hurt it more than Interleague Play IMO
since the players are no longer arch rivals fighting for AL or NL domination, but are playing against friends who they have shared a locker room with on three different teams, and coaxed each other to sigh together with the same agent, and so on.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
This really is it, I think.
When the separate identities went away, the rivalry was bound to, as well.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 14, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say interleague play has ruined the All-Star Game
What hurt it was the decision to make it decide home field advantage. That essentially penalizes a league because of fan voting for the starters and decisions for the bench and pitchers. There were probably a number of players in the NL and the AL that could have made the ASG, but beyond the starters, you have to get picked for the job. When you use interleague records, ASG winning streaks and the DH as reasons for AL superiority, I roll my eyes.
The number one reason for AL superiority has to do with the fact that the leagues are uneven. The NL has 16 teams to the 14 teams of the AL. Was it a small wonder that even though steroids were rampant throughout MLB that it was NL players that passed Maris? No. Expansion occurred and the league was thinner. I’m sure Griffey could have belted 62 if he had been playing in the NL in 1998. There is the DH, but that’s a completely different debate on the quality of AL pitching. I’ve seen AL fans complain about the lack of DH in the lineup handicapping AL teams when they come to NL parks, so take it for what you will.
When MLB inevitably expands, you’re going to see two AL teams (Central and West), likely in markets like Nashville or Las Vegas (Portland if you’re afraid of gambling). This will make a situation not unlike 1961 when Mantle and Maris were able to take advantage of expansion and 8 more games in the season. Pitching will be thinner and you’ll see a period of NL superiority in that period until the AL eventually adjusts.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I can't see MLB expanding...
… in this economy, with some markets and teams already in financial trouble.
You have probably seen the last expansion for a decade or more.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I never said that they were expanding in this economy
I simply said it was inevitable. There are some markets that probably could be tapped when the situation is right.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I'd say 20 years is a good round number
Even in this economy, you’re not going to see contraction. Even teams like the Nationals are simply worth too much money to MLB for contraction to occur. While the Nats may not survive in Washington, it’s safe to say that they’d move rather than simply cease to exist like teams did in the 19th century when the league was much more volatile. This is the major reason I said expansion is inevitable. MLB certainly has room to grow, but it’s a matter of the right conditions.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I would agree...
… but say again that those conditions might not exist for many years.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Selig also threw out the nonsense
About how it’s too HARD to tie home-field to best record because of hotel accomodations Give me a break. The NBA and NHL somehow manage and they let far more teams into the playoffs.
I am so sick of that argument.
As soon as a team clinches, you make reservations in that city through the entire playoffs. In most years, you’re only waiting for one or two playoff spots to be decided in early October, so you could have six of the eight cities taken care of already.
Then you take a look at the team with the worst record. No need to schedule Games 1, 2, 5 or 7 (or 1, 2, 6, 7 — I can’t remember if they go 2-3-2 or 2-2-1-1-1) there because they will never have home field. Then you take a look at the team with the best. No need to schedule 3, 4 or 6 (or 3,4,5) here because they will never NOT have homefield.
It’s easier than Selig thinks. An intern making $12 an hour could do it in a half-day.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 14, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
And yet....
…the thing that amazes me is that no one calls him out on the “hotel” excuse. I’d like to see ONE reporter grow some nuts and mention the things you do on that excuse.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 14, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Mike & MIke just completely accepted it
It is infuriating. I refuse to believe that baseball has any bigger entourage than the NBA and the NBA has to accomodate 16 teams over a span of two months!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You nailed that Worf.
I always thought that the team with the best record should have home field. But with the 2 home, 3 away, 2 home, I don’t really see it as an advantage. If you win the first game of the series, you have 3 games at home in a row to take it after game 2… doesn’t seem like an advantage if the team with said advantage plays less games at home (if the series is over in 5 games). Just my 2 cents.
I have to stop this early posting...
Okay, you’re the away team, you win game 1 or 2 of the series, you get 3 in a row at home. Hope this clears up the confusion.
Thanks!!
I kinda felt like Chris Farley… “Hey, I’ll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher’s a** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn’t you rather to take his word for it? No, I mean is, you can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a butcher’s a**… No, wait. It’s gotta be your bull.” LOL
Are you sure that this wasn't a Dusty Baker anecdote? There's enough name dropping
to fill the phone book. Was the person re-telling the story surrounded by a wall of homeless children?
Homefield advantage in the playoffs is terribly overrated
There, I said it.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
Go look at the last 30 or so WS
And see how often the team with home field has won it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 14, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Challenge accepted
Over the last 30 World Series (1978-2008), the team with home-field advantage has won 21 of the 30. The nine without home-field to prevail: 2008 Phillies, 2006 Cardinals, 2003 Marlins, 1999 Yankees, 1992 Blue Jays, 1984 Tigers, 1981 Dodgers, 1979 Pirates, and 1978 Yankees. That’s it.
It is true that these nine weren’t always the better team (thus discrediting the argument that they would have won anyway); the 2008 Phillies and the 2006 Cards each had worse records than their opponent, for example, so there is a crapshoot element, but there’s no doubt that having home-field is at least somewhat beneficial.
"You know, you should be a lot more careful crossing the street like that, otherwise you could die - if that bothers you."
Badger you should know better than to try to use facts in any discussion of w/ Blou :)
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 14, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I think homefield advantage is horseshit
It’s certainly not something I would lose sleep over if I had the good fortune to be managing or playing on a team headed to the Series. How has home field worked for the Cubs in the playoffs since 1984?!?!? Not so good.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
Like I said you are never one to consider facts dwhen it comes to your opinions
I personally see 21/30 and think… hmm… 7 out of 10 times it works. Wow. I am going to side w/ the 7 out of 10. But I do like facts and stats to back up most of my opinions.
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 15, 2009 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude, look at the numbers. 7 out of 10. That's 70% of the time the team with the
home field advantage win the series. Do the facts mean nothing to you? You are supporting your argument by citing three teams that choked away their advantage twice and last years team that we all know was playing like horeshit by the time the playoffs started? even you can do better than that.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 15, 2009 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions
even you can do better than that
no, he’s proven he cannot. He will not entertain facts into his opinion because then he would become a sabgermagician.
I think he just loves to play the contrarian and rile people up. It can be amusing at times.
Well..
..I would rather have game 7 of the world series at Wrigley, rather than Fenway or Yankee Stadium.
We Got This!
I agree,
but if Boston or New York win game 1 or 2 of this hypothetical series, they get 3 in a row at home. Then you have a good chance that there is no game 7. There are ups and downs, that’s why I don’t see a real advantage either way. It depends on how the home team does in game 1 and 2.
I don't really mind it
It does create a certain intensity.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 14, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions
A few things...
First of all… bullshit. “Baseball Bud” (as Chris Berman called him last night, which is kinda funny) did this because of the tie. His sponsors more than likely threatened to pull out because of public outrage, and this was the solution. How dare he try and place blame somewhere else, especially on a guy like Santo. I’m sure Ron said it used to mean something, but that’s because the guys that played in it got paid some extra money to do so, and it was enough that it made a difference. I think the winners all got $10,000 and the others got $5,000, or something. Unfortunately, for the guys who play in the ASG today, that’s merely “walking around” money, and wouldn’t be motivation enough to come out and put their bodies on the line to try and win a game that will, for most of the participants, mean absolutely nothing to them as they won’t even be IN the post season.
Look, they need to go back to the bonuses, it’s the only way to make it still “mean” something to the players, and get them to go out and try. The fact of the matter is the ASG will never be as good as what the NBA and NHL put out, but that’s because the OTHER stuff they do makes the whole experience so much more interesting. Could you imagine the ASG with a SKILLS competition? Bunting, base stealing, routine infield drills all while balancing a book on your head…? It would make for some watchable TV.
On another note, they need to fix the home run derby, big time. By the end of the first round last night I was ready for a nap. The only reason I even stayed up and watched the end was that I was hoping Pujols or Fielder would go down with an injury. At least that would have been like a Cubs win on a day off…
If they want to make the thing better, start with 5 outs in the first round, then go to 7 in the second, and finally 10 for the last. That way the guys aren’t tired and bitching and moaning about it the whole time, and they get the whole thing done in under and hour… that just dragged on far too long. At least they got rid of the stupid win a house thing… I think given the economy and the fact that giving away homes doesn’t look so great right they, they did a solid in giving money to the Boys and Girls Clubs… however they only gave away $60,000, and I believe that house was worth $100,000… so why the disparity there?
Another idea I had last night, was what if each batter had a timed round instead of a certain number of outs… that would certainly make it more interesting… 5 minutes to hit each round… no pitch or out limit… just rip as many dingers as you can in the time limit… I don’t know if that could work, but it certainly would be entertaining to see those guys flailing away with 30 seconds left…
by lswaidz on Jul 14, 2009 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Maybe they
could give the winners each a nice car from a nice government-owned automobile manufacturer. The winners get their choice of a few different cars, like a corvette, caddy cts, etc, all valued at around 50k. GM would probably give them to baseball for a big discount in exchange for being featured in the all-star game. A couple of the cars could be parked somewhere prominently during the game (I don’t know where they’d put them, but in the World Series of Poker it always adds excitement when the prize is visible during the game. The prize for the loser stays the same (5k or whatever).
I don’t care how much money you make, everyone is excited to win a car. Maybe it’s the price is right effect. And the difference between a car and 5k is big enough to get competitive juices flowing.
So the players play harder, and GM gets some positive exposure. Now that our tax dollars are tied to their future, it’s good for everyone if they do well.
DEJESUS!!!
What the hell kind of bonuses do you plan on giving?
Here’s what you do:
Baseball puts up $7.5 million. A sponsor matches it.
Top three vote-getters on each side get to pick their favorite charities. Winning team donates $3 million each to those charities and losing team donates $2 million.
Players that refuse to play are outed as pricks. Both sides will try to win, but it also isn’t so important that injuries will occur. After all, $2 million is still great for a charity.
Baseball gets great P.R.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
As long as the Human Fund is one of those charities, I support this plan
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
This is a really great idea... but...
Many players in MLB, although extremely charitable, would need some incentive beyond charity to play in the game. It’s just an unfortunate fact. These guys aren’t going to put their bodies on the line unless there’s something in it for them.
Also, the “Gold Ball” in the home run derby should be every ball. Donate $10,000 to charity for every home run, instead of just that last ball. If I were a player in that competition, I would do that anyway… and leave it up to MLB to “step up to the plate” and match my donations. Most of those guys make more than that in contract incentives for making the ASG anyway.
I don't really want them putting their bodies on the line
It’s an exhibition. I’m saying the charitable aspect will provide some incentive.
But the All-Star Game shouldn’t be life-or-death.
But I’m in the minority. I’m one of the few baseball fans that doesn’t get all orgasmic over Pete Rose basically ending Ray Fosse’s career.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
line of the day
The only reason I even stayed up and watched the end was that I was hoping Pujols or Fielder would go down with an injury. At least that would have been like a Cubs win on a day off…
LMAO. That was brilliant.
Internet voting for the All-Star game
That was the breaking point for me, undeserving players are voted in on name recognition alone.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jul 14, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions
Or how about the ability to vote up to 25 times?
That’s how guys like Manny almost making it in when they’re suspended for drug use.
I voted for Rod Barajas and Jerry Hairston 25 times!
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
25 times per email address
and how many of us here have 3 or more emails?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
As a youngster in the 70s, I got a kick out of receiving my Gillette Allstar Ballot
in the mail from Monte Irvin’s office
"Believe or leave."
+1
….although I got mine at the local drugstore from the big Gillette Razor display. God forbid I think of taking 2 because I was sure they’d see my name twice and my vote wouldn’t count at all.
Back then, picking up the all star ballot and 5 packs of baseball cards (at 10 cents each) was a pretty good day. LOL.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 14, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
What the hell? Passing the blame it on Ron?
Apparently talking in general terms about something with someone = implying that they orchestrated the entire thing?
Get off your high horses. Did you honestly really care about the ASG before the tie in 2002? I still don’t care about it now. It’s still an exhibition game. So it decides home field advantage – who cares? That’s just about as arbitrary as the old system where it just rotated between the leagues each year.
I’m not a big Selig fan either, but this entire thread is ridiculous
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
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