Cards to Trade Wallace for Holliday?

LInk He's been having an off year but he would make an already dangerous lineup better!

4 months ago cubsluver22 33 comments 0 recs |

Comments

heh, I was just about to make a fanshot

And yeah, that will be a big upgrade for the cards to get a player like Holliday, even though he is having a mediocre season by his standards.

by desmoCubbie on Jul 23, 2009 5:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Meh

I think Holliday’s very overrated, but Tony LaRussa is a miracle worker so that’s always a concern. A large part of Holliday’s success was due to him playing in Colorado.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Jul 23, 2009 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

hes doing better as of late

wells4roty

by jesus christos on Jul 23, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with DTJChris.

Holliday’s a classic Coors Field hitter. He might do somewhat better in St. Louis than Oakland, but he’s not that much of an upgrade for them.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jul 23, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Although I agree with that to a degree

Let’s remember he don’t have the likes of Pujols, Ludwick etc in the lineup with him in Oakland. He would see more pitches I think.

Go Cubs Go!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jul 23, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats probably true

but id still rather have him rot in oakland

wells4roty

by jesus christos on Jul 23, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he's a huge upgrade even if he was inflated by Coors...

And by the way, I definitely agree that his numbers have been inflated by Coors Field.

However, people are faililng to consider who he’d be replacing in LF for the Cards. Their options in LF have included (until Duncan was traded):

Chris Duncan (.687 OPS)
Rick Ankiel (.636 OPS)
Nick Stavinoha (.593 OPS)

So even if Holliday is only an .825-.850 OPS guy away from Coors, that’s about a .200 point improvement in OPS in LF over what they’ve been getting. And it allows them to keep DeRosa to 3B, where he’s a .100+ point improvement in OPS over Thurston and Barden.

Getting Holliday would be a HUGE addition for the Cardinals.

by SouthernCub on Jul 23, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That really wouldn't scare me

I’m not sold Holliday is all that great offensively outside of Coors Field, and Wallace is an exciting prospect. I actually hope the Cards do it…

by Pat19 on Jul 23, 2009 5:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If the Cardinals want to give up Brett Wallace for a half season of Holliday, go for it

Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012

by heine41 on Jul 23, 2009 5:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Wallace looks like the heir apparent to Troy Glaus in St. Louis. Glaus is just coming off injury. I’ve been impressed with Wallace with the AAA Redbirds. He doesn’t walk enough and strikes out too much, but he is otherwise a good player.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jul 23, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember when people thought they were just renting Scott Rolen

by WanderingWanderer on Jul 24, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

St. Louis is going for it

The right strategy. A prospect is only a prospect, and St. Louis is good at developing more prospects. Holliday would make that Cardinal lineup downright scary.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Jul 23, 2009 7:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well they needed to do SOMETHING...

they’ve played below-.500 baseball since May 1, and given up ground to everybody in the division besides Cincy and Pittsburgh.

by SouthernCub on Jul 23, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So it's the right strategy for the Cards to go for it...

but the Cubs should roll over.

This season IS over. -BLou 6/30/09

by Kansas25 on Jul 23, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not necessarily

developing more prospects. sounds like they have a number of roster filler guys (jarrett hoffpauir) and one legit hitter (jones?) about a year away. if they deal wallace and it doesn’t work, their system is torched.

by tim815 on Jul 23, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

the system’s improved, but it isn’t a great system and has been a tad overhyped. A bunch of pen arms, a couple decent OF talents, a good shortstop (Kozma) a plus hitter in Wallace and some raw assets lower down.

by toonsterwu on Jul 24, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holliday is a good hitter who

has been streaky this year. Yes, he benefitted from Coors, but his away line from 2006-2008 was still .296/.370/.486/.856, a perfectly good line for a starting corner OF in the bigs. People that have tracked him this year will know what I mean by streakiness … I wish I had the time and energy to look up/figure out Holliday’s post May slash lines, but month by month for Holliday

April .240/.288/.360/.648
May .291/.416/.456/.872
June .280/.374/.440/.814
July .344/.421/.578/.999

This is a guy who has adjusted to hitting at Oakland’s pitcher’s park

.286/.383/.494/.877

Actually, Holliday’s problems have been on the road this year

.287/.375/.414/.789

Certainly, you’d hope that the guy could adjust quickly, but he is also in his first year adjusting to brand new parks and a lot of new pitchers. It’s not the end of the world on his career with that away line.

I think this is a big acquisition if they can net it. Now, I think it’s a risky gamble, as Wallace looks like a guy who could be a solid bat in the bigs now … and maybe a good-great one in time. But Wallace also isn’t a third baseman, and he’s also not an OF. He’s a guy who can spot there, but he’s really your classic 1st/DH guy. I gotta imagine the trade would be more than Wallace alone.

One truism in baseball is always true – good hitters adjust. I think Matt Holliday has adjusted just fine. I don’t know what people’s complaints are about.

As a side note, it’s funny – if someone had said to me preseason, Holliday will be a solid starting corner OF, the A’s young pitchers would acquit themselves fairly well, and their bullpen would be solid – I’d say this was a competitive squad.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2009 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

oops that was supposed to be post-April slash lines

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ack rushed through the post

one truism in baseball is always true … wow that’s moronic

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For what it's worth.....

Before the rains here in DC, the Nats TV announcers were commenting that the Cards are rumored to also be scouting Josh Willingham.

by rlpete on Jul 23, 2009 8:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yup

I hope Washington keeps him, as I think he’d be good for them, but he’s wanted out almost since he set foot there. I think someone will take a run at him … I wouldn’t be surprised if he heats up in the rumor mills down the stretch. He’s had an excellent season in limited AB’s, posting a slash line of .297/.417/.569/.987. Problem is his shoulder, which is um, off the top, I think he’s missing cartilage, and hence, what the Nats want is sharply different from some teams are willing to give for the risk.

Btw, you in the DC area? I hate weather days like this – rain, then sunny, then rain. Makes me want to throw things.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in northern VA

I agree on Willingham. The top of Nationals lineup is actually pretty good. Unfortunately an OF with Dunn and Willingham is a bad defensive group. I thought the Morgan deal was a good deal for them.

by rlpete on Jul 23, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want to go to a Nats game

but I really don’t have the desire to. I know, doesn’t make any sense. I mean, Nats Park is nice, but seriously, going to a Nats game is eh. I mean, didn’t they do movie night for a stretch to attract audiences? I guess it’s nice that you can basically walk up and buy a premium seat.

They are headed in the right direction under Rizzo IF the Lerner’s don’t interfere. Rizzo’s a good personnel man … at least, his history is good. The Lerner’s are bashed, and very justifiably. From all indications, they’ve hamstrung Kasten and Rizzo.

Posting a bit more on Sickels site these days has allowed me to catch up on the system, and they are starting to build up that solid 2nd tier of arms. Strasburg will give them a top level arms, there’s some other assets, with Jordan Zimmerman in the bigs. Still need to shore up positional depth, but one step at a time.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

except they don't

seem to think they’ll sign strasburg

by tim815 on Jul 23, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll be stunned if they don't

I wouldn’t expect negotations to begin until say, August 17th. Okay, maybe not the last day, but close enough. They’re going to play a game of chicken, but the risk is also high on Strasburg’s end. One injury, and kablooey. A couple years ago, Wieters was rumored to be balking with the O’s, but they eventually signed. I think both sides eventually compromise and find a middle ground, probably around 20 mil (scary that’s a middle ground). No agent wants to be responsible for the next Matt Harrington story.

First test comes on 7/31. That’s the last date, if I have it correctly, that a guy can go abroad or something like that. I used to know, but it’s slipping me. There’s been some spec that Boras may force the issue and send Strasburg to Japan. I highly doubt it, but that’s the first test.

by toonsterwu on Jul 24, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

cards seem to be making a move for everyone

wells4roty

by jesus christos on Jul 23, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they want to swing a home run

but they are a bit limited, both financially and prospect wise. Seems like people have caught on to the fact that, while their system is improved from a few years ago, it’s really spotty in many respects, with a lack of quality pitchers. In this case, though, Oakland matches up as Oakland doesn’t need young arms. With a stud in Brett Anderson, and good looking righties in Cahill/Mazzaro, along with others, the assets are there on the pitching side.

by toonsterwu on Jul 23, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i went over to viva el birdos

they seem unified in hating even the rumor of wallace (a guy they have control of for the better part of a decade) for holliday (a walk-year boras client).

i say roll the dice, then, st. louis.

by tim815 on Jul 24, 2009 12:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I see where Wallace isn't considered good enough defensively at 3rd base

So if a move to 1st base is inevitable (as I’ve read) then it’s a no-brainer frankly to pull off a deal that can net you Matt Holliday. Wallace isn’t going to unseat the best ballplayer on the planet at 1st base.

Prospects are only prospects until they prove otherwise. St. Louis is in a position to win the NL Central, so you go for it. Especially since they have a very low payroll situation and presumably money to burn.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Jul 24, 2009 7:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

reports suggest

that the FO has to get approval to actually expand payroll and that they may need Oakland to pitch in some money, which is why they might be giving up Wallace and plus. That said, it’s still a deal that makes some sense for them in regards to making a run this year. There’s just the thought that crosses my mind that they might be able to better use Wallace in another deal, but that said, admittedly, I’m having a hard time figuring out what unless they wait until the offseason.

by toonsterwu on Jul 24, 2009 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cardinals want to win now

Tony LaRussa’s contract runs out after this season and he is 63 years old. There have been rumors circulating that he is going to hang up the cleats and take a special advisor role with the White Sox. If LaRussa retires, then Duncan probably goes too.

Adding Holliday to that lineup would be impressive. Plus he is a good outfielder.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Jul 24, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs