ESPN: Cards close to a deal for Matt Holliday
by Galvan316 on Jul 24, 2009 10:35 AM CDT
170 comments
The A's and Cardinals are close to completing a trade that would send outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, league sources told ESPN The Magazine's Tim Kurkjian.
Holliday, 29, is eligible for free agency after this season, and has had a lackluster season overall with the Athletics, hitting .287 with 11 homers and 54 RBIs.
What are your thoughts?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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To any of the
Minor League aficionados out there, are any of those guys that the Cards would be supposedly giving up big time prospects? I kind of think I almost wouldn’t mind seeing the Cardinals give away some of their up and coming talent for a guy like Holliday. I just don’t know that he scares me all that much.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jul 24, 2009 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree
I’d be more concerned if they got Halliday, not Holliday.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 24, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read it that way initally...
… and had a mini panic attack in my cubicle.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 24, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that worse than a Crawdad attack?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 24, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was more...
… groggy confusion.
“Wait, who is this? [long pause…] Oh. OH! Wait, what the HELL?”
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 24, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he did that because
You presented him with a logical argument that he really couldn’t refute. He doesn’t like that.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 24, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace is there #1 prospect
They’ve still got problems other than adding Holiday.
by jeff_pico on Jul 24, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shane Peterson looks to be maybe a fourth outfielder or possible starter. He can hold his own at the plate with occasional pop, gets on base (although he’s tailed off this year while facing tougher competition in Double-A), play an average-to-decent LF and RF, and handle 1B. Not a star (unless he suddenly improves), but not a bad player to have around either. If he can sustain his OBP from the lower levels (.400 in 230 AB last year in the New York-Penn League, .367 in 285 AB this year in the Florida State League, but just .338 in 74 AB in Double-A so far), he could be a pretty good tablesetter. Plus, he’s smart about stealing bases, 12-for-13 this year. Seems to be an under-the-radar type of hitter who comes cheap but comes through. And he bats left-handed. Saw him earlier this year in Palm Beach and despite the promotion he still has the highest BA among qualifiers for the PB Cardinals (whose manager is Tom Spencer, by the way. Spencer managed some Cubs minor league teams in the 80s that had Maddux, Palmeiro, Grace, Moyer, etc. and the pitching coach is Dennis Martinez. Yes, THAT Dennis Martinez.)
Don’t know much about Mortensen. I believe he’s a sinkerballer.
Brett Wallace would have been relatively cheap (first round money, but cheaper than Holliday) and under team control for a while. He may not be a great defender, but that’s also what they said about Aramis. Wallace is a major league hitter and he would’ve filled a hole at 3B for the Cards, if you assume (like I do) that they’re not going to re-sign Troy Glaus. So who plays third going forward? Mark DeRosa? Pete Kozma?
While I think Holliday makes the Cardinals better, I also don’t know if he can make up the value between the cheap Wallace and the expensive Holliday. Wallace would have hit well enough that the two wouldn’t have been that far apart with the stick, so is Holliday worth the $13 million or so between the two contracts? Maybe not. The two things I take away from this are that the Cardinals are being very clear that they want to win NOW, as in, this season; and two, Beane did really well in dealing a pretty good, but not great, player. Plus, without Wallace, I think we can probably rule out the Cardinals in the Halladay sweepstakes.
by northsider on Jul 24, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Holliday signs with the Cards after this year, good deal.
If it’s only a rental, very bad deal.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 10:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You think he could be a Type A?
They could at least get a decent draft pick for him if he leaves.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jul 24, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he probably will be.
I forgot about the draft pick. Still though, to give up a future star in Wallace for two months kinda dumb.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I read a day ago
He could be a type A, but you have to offer him arbitration first. And, if you offer him arbitration, he might accept it (could be somewhere around $15 mil).
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 24, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he would have to sign with a team that has an unprotected pick
So if a crappy team like the Nats signed him, the Cards get jack.
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 24, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The money required
to get Holliday to sign after the season, would not leave them enough money to resign Pujols when his contract expires. Unless, they gave Holliday an extremely short contract, which he probably will not want at the ripe old age of 29.
by IUJoe on Jul 24, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dumb move for the Cards
so, I’m all for it.
Giving up Wallace and others for half a season of Holliday, who doesn’t make them a lock to win the division, is a stupid trade.
by ScottT on Jul 24, 2009 10:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They're trying to win this crappy division and make a run. NOW.
I don’t think that’s a bad move. They added DeRosa, and now Holliday.
On the flip side, if our outfielders start hitting to their career numbers, it’ll be like us completing a deal for two stud bats.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 24, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
::Has already turned blue and passed out 12 times from holding breath waiting for that very thing to happen::
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Holliday rather than Halliday
Halliday = 8 more wins for sure. Holliday maybe 2-3 more wins? I hope it’s a 3 month rental.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fuk-U-Meter on Jul 24, 2009 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
8 wins is a lot.
There are maybe 14ish starts left for most starting pitchers . . . to expect a jump of like 4-5 with someone like Wellemeyer to 12-13 wins with Halliday would be expecting a ton.
by madcow256 on Jul 24, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roberts.
"Live and be happy, beloved children of my heart, and never forget that until the day comes when God will deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is contained in these words: wait and hope!" - The Count of Monte Cristo
by Bricks and Ivy on Jul 24, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jul 24, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fritos
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 24, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lind.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Jul 24, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
berg baby
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think
The Mets, Yankees, White Sox, Red Sox will have to be tripping over themselves to sign Holliday in this up coming off season.
I hope this is only a 3 month rental.
by Galvan316 on Jul 24, 2009 10:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Scratch the White Sox off that list.
Holliday is represented by Scott Boras and they don’t do business with him if at all possible.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jul 24, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cards board
seems to think this is a bad idea. Therefore, I’m all for it. :D
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 24, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This certainly is a good deal for the Cardinals
They add a solid hitter who will give Pujols real protection. Giving up a prospect isn’t a big deal.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jul 24, 2009 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
damn posted too soon
it isn’t a big deal when you get Holliday back. Who knows if Wallace will ever be good.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jul 24, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure most of you know this but since we're 93 games into the season
the team only pays like half of the players salary now. JUST AN EXAMPLE but Sanchez makes 6.25 mil this year. If the Cubs pick him up, they would only have to pay about 3.7 mil … if i’m doing this right. It’s not as big as most people think it is.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade not that bad for the Cards
Wallace is a great stick, but he is horrible at defense. He has a weird shape body and just can’t react quick enough. He would be an OK 1B, but a guy named Puljos is there already. The other 2 guys in the deal are small time prospects.
Good thing about the deal is now they have no shot at getting Roy Halliday.
by CubFaninStLouis on Jul 24, 2009 11:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok Jim! Your turn!
Go get Scoots and Beimel!
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
by Cub Style on Jul 24, 2009 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a
Country/Western band.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jul 24, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go get Brooks and Dunn!
Conway Twitty!
"Let's not get giggly." - Lou
by tdubcub on Jul 24, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the only way the Cubs trade for left handed rbi producer
is if Fukudome is traded. He’s making 12.5 million this year!!!! Don’t know if somebody will take him.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Would you?
I don’t think Kosuke’s going anywhere.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 24, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't either but that's really the only position that Hendry can try and add.
Other than 2B..
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think that if BJ Ryan does anything in the minors....
……we don’t make any trades at all and HOPE that these players get their crap together the 2nd half. Barring another injury, of course.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 24, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree. hopefully they come around.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. Trade. Clause.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost want to welcome such a trade
Brett Wallace is a stud. His OBP numbers throughout his short minor league career are insane. Do you guys think that the Cardinals would actually consider resigning Holliday at the end of the season if they were to get him? I really have no idea, and for some reason, doubt that would be willing to pay him that much money, although, I find it hard to believe that the Cardinals would be willing to part ways with their #1 prospect for a 2 month fix.
by cufban2522 on Jul 24, 2009 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way they can afford to sign Holliday after this season
Especially with Pujols needing an extension soon.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jul 24, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Pujols has another year on his contract after this year though
by cufban2522 on Jul 24, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they aren't going to sign Holliday for just one year....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 24, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but
Holliday is going to want a long term deal. The longer Pujols goes without an extension, the more likely it is that he tests the waters. Letting Pujols out for the highest bidder isn’t a very smart risk. I’m guessing Boston would have the $400 million offer sheet waiting.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jul 24, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Saint Louis
and Pujols has been quoted in the local papers (earlier this season) saying that if the Cardinals are not willing to sign on more talent around him that he will consider testing the free agent market. He is not pleased with the “protection” around him in the lineup
by murphymj on Jul 24, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I posted a fan shot about this a while back.
Pujols staying in STL seems to be based entirely if STL can convince him and LaRussa they are serious about winning. The new ownership hasn’t been as supportive in this regard as the old was, i guess.
So in a way, resigning Holliday (and others that can play well) may actually be the thing that KEEPS Pujols there rather than the thing that keeps him out for money reasons.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 24, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the same
ownership that brought in Rolen/Edmonds/Walker, etc. The difference is that this ownership switched the philosophy a couple of years ago. They decided to go more towards player development as opposed to building the team via free agency and trades. This did not jive with Jocketty…hence why he was removed, Jeff Lunhow (sp) was promoted and John Mozelliak (sp) was put in place as a puppet ruler
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Jul 24, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't see Pujols going anywhere but St. Louis
He could have left earlier for much more money, but he stayed in St. Louis for a 7 year deal worth $100 million with a $16 million option in 2011. This guy is a class athlete and I think he loves playing in St. Louis.
by cufban2522 on Jul 24, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he does love stl
but he will consider leaving if it gets him to a perennial contender
by murphymj on Jul 24, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money talks
There isn’t a human being on the planet that is loyal to a team so much that they would turn down the contract that Pujols could get from another team.
Playing on a larger stage, getting the biggest contract in MLB history, and knowing that you are on a team that can spend more money is a huge draw. Getting a deal from St. Louis might give him a good amount of money, but his contract would probably hurt the teams ability to get more players.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Jul 24, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he wants
to be selfless he can say "look how many more people I can help with the extra 8 mil a year Boston/NY is willing to offer me).
Pujols could get 30 mil/yr, even in this economic climate. No way St L is doing that.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given how close the division is
The Matt Holliday deal wouldn’t be bad in the short term. They know that the biggest problem for the Cubs has been consistent offense and with how Houston has been performing lately, the Cards are trying to pull ahead of the pack.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 24, 2009 11:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you also need to factor in how this would help them against other teams in the playoffs
would this trade make them legitimate contenders for the world series? If they are just seeking for a way to get into the playoffs, this is a bad deal in the long run for sure.
by cufban2522 on Jul 24, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2006 team won the World Series
Proving that all you need is a seat at the table and anything can happen.
I think the Braves in the ‘90s proved that too. It’s about getting to the playoffs first. The funny thing is that the Cards are somewhat in a rebuilding mode, but they don’t really have pieces to sell. Since they have the division lead, might as well buy instead because who knows how long it will take to build a very solid team versus the somewhat solid team they have right now.
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people put too much stock in prospects.
They are just that prospects, Holliday is a proven player. I don’t want to see the Cardinals make this deal. It will not lock up the division for them but it makes their lineup much tougher. Who knows, the Cards might keep Holliday and sign him to a 2 year deal.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jul 24, 2009 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Especially since
we cannot hit consistently at all.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
by airweino on Jul 24, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People put too much
stock in OUR prospects. Other teams have prospects worth hanging onto. Not that I don’t think thjis is a good trade for the Cards.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So like.....
Soto, Theriot, Fontenot, Marmol, Wells, and Marshall were like nothing to you a couple of years ago. Got it, yeah, again, thank god you aren’t the GM
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
WELL...
Soto was not considered a top prospect, Fontenot is not a product of our system, and Wells was Rule-5’d by the team last year.
Just because home-grown guys make it to the big leagues does not mean that they were top prospects. Guys like Patterson, Pie, Mitre, etc…were the top prospects.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't need to school me on prospects
If you want to start talking about minor league prospects, I doubt you would be able to match wits.
What I was trying to pointing out was that the Cubs have come up with several useful players for this current team (didn’t even mention Z). People are always down on the Cubs system and it’s not top flight, there is a ton of room for improvement, but it isn’t a barren wasteland that many people try to paint it as. When I see that attitude creep up, I try to keep it in check.
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't try to act
like you were valuing Randy Wells, Geo and Mike Fontenot a few years ago. Because you weren’t. And if you say you were, then you are a liar.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, not at all
Didn’t think they would be a big deal. Didn’t think they would turn out at all. They are very pleasant surprises and they were churned out by the Cubs system. Again, all I’m saying is the Cubs can produce good major league players. No superstars in quite awhile, but there certainly wouldn’t be any division championships and playoffs the past two years without the guys they had had (Kerry Wood included for all of his faults).
I always pointing out arguments for those who want to say that the Cubs never have any good minor leaguers.
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody said never
but most people would agree that the Cubs do a pretty terrible job, in general, in drafting, developing, and evaluating their own prospects. When they do have someone come up and produce, often times it seems like it’s a surprise even to them (ex Theriot, Soto, Fontenot, etc). Their top prospects and draft picks almost universally fail.
They have been able to turn some of their prospects into very good players via trade (ex Ramirez, Lee, etc), but most of the guys we sent away flopped, so while those prospects were well-utilized, they were still poorly developed and/or drafted.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to get smashed, bashed, and crashed, but
i really want Dunn.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jul 24, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fail!
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 24, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where would
you play him? His defensive deficiencies notwithstanding, we don’t have any corner outfield openings. Would you bench Soriano?
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milton Bradley is a platoon player...
or haven’t you noticed?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dang, a Dunn/Bradley platoon. That'd be something.
Milton would throw a fit about the lost playing time, though.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 24, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we allowed to complain to him about the lost RBI's?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, yeah - people have been doing so all season.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 24, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus you know
it would destroy our defense in right field. I just threw up in my mouth.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 24, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we can put up with it in LF...
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jul 24, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and SS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and LFB
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he can platoon in Washington if that's what it takes
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
Soriano out of position in LF, Fukudome out of position in CF, and Dunn WAY out of position in RF? Yikes.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once more....with feeling...
We won 97 games with Soriano in LF, Dome isn’t bad in CF, and the biggest problem this team has had this year is scoring runs.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano's
D is appreciatively worse than last year, Fukudome isn’t bad in CF, but is still out of position. And anyone who uses the “we won x games with him” excuse must still think Kyle Orton should be in the pro bowl.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's so important to you, why didn't you mention Theriot playing out of position?
Where exactly IS Soriano’s position?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who uses the "Soriano is a DH" excuse must still think Theriot is a ML SS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2,932 innings and counting.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 24, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't follow your logic
I think Theriot has poor range, a weak arm, and double clutches way too much. What does that have to do with me thinking Soriano has no instincts, doesn’t track the ball well, doens’t take good angles, is afraid of anything near a wall, makes too many mental errors, and hops when he (tries) to catch it?
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you see him playing SS?
Then stop the hate. It’s very old.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 24, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blah blah blah
This is turning into a very BLou-like rant.
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 24, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
imagine Dunn leaping into the night skies of Wrigley and taking a double away from holliday......
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope that Lou would tell Dunn he's is to NEVER jump or dive while playing the outfield...
just catch the balls you can get to and make the routine plays. Nothing fancy…that’s what’s he’s happy with when it comes to Theriot.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley in CF!!!! I want that to happen. Fukudome is overpaided to the nth degree.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL...and Bradley is totally earning his contract huh?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i did some intense number crunching
Bradley- 7 mil, 22 RBIs, 318000 per RBI
Fukudome- 12.5 mil, 29 RBIs, 431000 per RBI
Bradley has more bang for his buck
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're nuts if you want him playing CF for the rest of the year.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would i be nuts if i wanted andres blanco to pitch
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be a dream come true....
…waits for the “OMG HE SUCKS ON DEFENSE” argument…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG HE SUCKS ON DEFENSE!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 24, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SWL I got this
And Ryan theriot is Ozzie smith at SS. Sometimes you have to give up some D to get a great deal of O back.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 24, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLBTradeRumors.com
Says the deal is official.
Holliday is a Card.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
by airweino on Jul 24, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's bad for the Cubs
The Cubs are a win now team. This deal makes the Cards significantly better in the short term, when the Cubs have their best chance to win. When Holliday leaves the Cards, the Cubs will have older, more expensive, less productive versions of Fukudome, Bradley, Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, etc.
Short of new ownership doing something miraculous, the Cubs aren’t going to be a spectacular team in a couple years when these prospects would emerge.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow!
Cardinals get straight RAPED in this deal! I love it! this trade is awesome for us. Holliday isnt a start player and now they give up 3 prime prospects for a 2 month rental they probably won’t resign.
by Glacier on Jul 24, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummm...
Holliday isnt a start player
What?
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday is a star and he is back in the National league now
and he has great numbers at Busch.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jul 24, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a homer obviously but I still think the Cubs are better.
Actually i don’t know.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Answer this move with ......... DUNN/DONE/DAWN/DUNE!
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he only makes 4.5 mil for the rest of the season
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But 12 next year.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jul 24, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
next season is next life
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, bold move for the Cards.
They’ve definitely thrown down the gauntlet offensively. I’ve always been a little skeptical of Holliday, but he’s shown himself to be an at least decent hitter outside of Coors with the A’s this season. This doesn’t cut me to the quick the way a Halladay deal would have, but the Cubs hitters need to negate this move with their bats.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 24, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No matter
what the Cubs still lead in the loss column. They control their own fate.
This does make the StL lineup much better though.
by CalCalender on Jul 24, 2009 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
According to BA and minor league ball
Wallace is their top prospect after Rasmus. They other two are both highly rated within their system.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/1/5/709221/st-louis-cardinals-top-20
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2009/267431.html
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I find it interesting
that Holiday has a career OPS of .801 in road games (read, away from Coors Field). He has an .831 OPS this year in Oakland.
He’s nothing special. Definitely overrated. Definitely not worth a long-term contract and not worth giving up top prospects for. He might give them a small bump in division championship probability this year, but not a good deal for Cardinals overall imo.
by paulucla on Jul 24, 2009 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd take him
over any of our outfielders.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God you aren't the GM then
Wow
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's hitting
.287/.375/.454, and is on an expiring contract. Exactly which of our outfielders would you prefer over him?
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you a hint...his name starts with the letters Milton Bradley.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean
he of the below .750 OPS, poor defense (this year), bad attitude and bad contract? You really, truly would trade Bradley for Holliday right now? Come on.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sarcasm .... i think
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yesterday
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot to add that you almost just described Milton Bradley to a T.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all of them.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 24, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are both of you commenting from the loony bin?
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
by Cub Style on Jul 24, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox ..... Vivica A Fox
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What chu talking about LD?
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jul 24, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always been a little skeptical about Holliday for precisely this reason.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 24, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The moral of this trade is to never open your eyes when you're swimming in chlorine infested water
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that’s a pretty damn good haul for the A’s….
i wonder if the Cards plan plan to re-sign Holliday after giving all that up
by brian custer on Jul 24, 2009 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you guys think our guys are watching espn in the clubhouse
realizing they gotta step up their game?
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jul 24, 2009 11:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, they're taking the Lou mandated pre-game nap.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's all it took, they probably would have done so in May.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which Cardinal outfielder does he replace?
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 24, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Duncan
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel i think
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel/Rasmus platoon in center...
Ludwick and Holliday in the corners.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Rasmus getting like 90%-100% of the starts
Ankiel is more of the 4th OF right now
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed as well.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 24, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a PH off the bench
that can solidify OF defense in late innings.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would they platoon two lefties in CF?
Might as well just play Rasmus everyday instead of giving Ankles playing time.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because that's what they have been doing.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
reals?
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but I think Ankiel will mostly be
a PH and defensive replacement late in games.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds about right.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 24, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Ankiel/Stavinhoa/Duncan
So this is an upgrade since those guys have not been playing very well
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Beane..
feels like a genius right now, i would too.
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on Jul 24, 2009 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
hey comon pick me up from work
its like a 10 min ride. I’ll rec your post.
"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"
by xene on Jul 24, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not driving to jew town..
unless i take my nunchucks or i pack my gat.
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on Jul 24, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paging Dr. Crawdad...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
it’s a pretty good deal for both teams.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 24, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way i see it..
This deal mos def makes the cards better now, but the A’s get prospects who they can control for the next 6-7 years and the cards get Holliday for 2-3 months.
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on Jul 24, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Cards got better, A’s got more/equal talent for longer. I think Wallace is at least talented enough that he could give the A’s three months of .832 OPS ball.
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he is a genius...
Please reference Mulder, Zito, Harden, etc… The only fault was Hudson.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
by Cub Style on Jul 24, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least the Cards are playing the Phillies.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
after that they play the Dodgers for 4 games
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HELL YEAH! F YEAH! HAWK YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YES YES YES YES YES !!!!!
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
normal lineup is in today
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 24, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Any word if Holliday is going to be with the team today?
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 24, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They are saying he will be
He was in NY when the deal went down
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 24, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Platoon of Baker and Fontenot at 2B is average at best.
Upgrade! Scutaro is having a great year in Toronto so capitalize on it. Pick him up, I don’t care if it takes Jackson/Cashner/Castro just as long as it’s not Vitters. Although I think Flaherty would be intriguing to them, as a SS prospect with comparable attributes to Scoots. But then again Scoots will probably be a Type-A so he could be somewhat expensive.
Then go get Joe Beimel. Shouldn’t be too expensive. He’s good enough to not be a LOOGY but he’s also good enough against lefties to be a specialist.
I also wouldn’t mind getting someone that has been through a stretch run. But that’s optional.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
by Cub Style on Jul 24, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t see how the Cards will be able to sign Holliday (if that’s their plan) AND re-sign Pujols after 2011. I doubt Boras will allow Holliday to sign anything less than a 5 year deal. Will the Cards have the money for both?
by brian custer on Jul 24, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can't.
They 100% can’t. Hollliday will want at least 5/90, if not more. Pujols could ask for 30 million a year and he will get it from someone if the Cards won’t give it to him. They’ll have to let Matty Ice go if they want to keep Albert.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
by Cub Style on Jul 24, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A platoon of Baker / Fontenot at 2nd would give you an OPS of .821 at that position
That’s much better than average, and much better than Scutaro’s been in his career (career .721 OPS). Scutaro’s been almost that good this year, but it’s so much higher than any other season that it seems flukey.
by Wreckard on Jul 24, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be flukey...
But his contract ends this year. It is his career year hitting wise. He does also bring great defense and could bump Theriot to 2nd. Also if we offer him arbitration and he declines then we get that 1st round pick. I highly doubt if traded he stops hitting.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
by Cub Style on Jul 24, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They both hit HR's today.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 24, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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