Cards Complete Trade for A's Holliday
by gridiron_assassin on Jul 24, 2009 11:39 AM CDT
Email
Print
According to this ESPN article, the Cardinals and A's have agreed to a trade that would send Matt Holliday and $1.5 million to the A's in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen.
The Athletics and Cardinals have completed a trade that sends outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.
In addition, sources said the Athletics will throw in $1.5 million to the Cardinals.
So the Cardinals have now made two significant trades within the last 2-3 weeks (DeRosa and Holliday) and have given up a good amount of decent prospects which shows that they're putting all their chips on the table for a postseason run this year. If they manage to sign Holliday to an extension after the season then this could turn out to be a great trae. However, if he signs elsewhere the trade would be a very, very bad one. I don't know much about the Card's farm system (anyone with information on the players they traded please feel free to share what you know), but giving up what are sure to be some of their top prospects for a half year rental could be disastrous (just ask the Brewers how they feel now about that Sabathia trade).
I believe the Cubs need to make a move now, not necessarily one as big as the Harden acquisition from last year. A left handed reliever (George Sherrill, John Grabow) and/or a starting SS/2B (Freddy Sanchez) should be the teams main focus.
How do you guys think this changes our chances, and the NL Central overall?
Here is another post from mlbdailydish.com, another SBNation site that is great at covering trade rumors and other MLB news. Check out the story and help support their site!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
133 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I wish the Cubs would realize they could use some
players at different positions. Cardinals get DeRo and now Holliday. They Cubs better do something…
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Jul 24, 2009 11:42 AM CDT reply actions
geez, that's not fair
After all, while the Cards have added Holliday, DeRosa and Lugo, the Cubs have countered with Jeff Baker, Andres Balnco and B.J. Ryan. Of course, none of our new guys is good enough to play, but still…
by bringbackbanks on Jul 24, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Not impressed at all
Matt Holliday found his niche right away playing in Colorado. He became available because he got exposed as such playing in Oakland. He’s a good player, but not worth the money and not anything close to put them over the top.
Now, if somehow the Cards end up playing the Rockies in the playoffs, then it’s a different story.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Holliday is an overrated
Colorado aided player plus he’s overpaid. My guess is they’ll put Rasmus in center and bench Ankiel, and Ankiel will fill in as the backup outfielder, like Chris Duncan was. It IS an upgrade, but it doesn’t completely put them over the top.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 24, 2009 11:47 AM CDT reply actions
a victim of playing In Oakland
a hitters graveyard
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 25, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Unless your name is Jason Giambi, Mark McGwire, and Jose Canseco.
Those are some stand up players there that have succeeded with nothing but pure talent.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Now that's funny!
Giambi, McGwire and Canseco "succeeded with nothing but pure talent. pure talent, " and more than a little help, pharmaceutically speaking.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 26, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
i'm not saying i love this trade
for all the wrong reasons, but…
i saw a cardinals fan approach a vcubs fan at ‘the ledge’ (yes it does exist. after a few apparent heartfelt words, the cubs fan moved away. the cardinals fan took his spot. the cubs fan went inside, came back out adorned in his milton bradley jersey. the cubs fan was happy for the first time in months.
the cardinals have emptied their system for one shot at ‘it.’ giving up wallace is huge. the other arms are decent as well. the cubs improved play may have forced this. if the cardinals win the division, the trade may be a wash short-term. this will be one cardinals fans rue for a long time.
the system hasn't been emptied
it has taken a hit, but we still have:
Daryl Jones, Daniel Descalso, Shelby Miller (assuming he signs, which is a strong likelihood), Wagner Mateo, Tyler Henley, Allen Craig and a stable of very good right handed relief prospects. Plus if Holliday walks after the season, we get the draft picks associated with his Type A status.
Also, one shot at it? We’ve won “it” 10 times :)
Wallace was a future 1b/DH, 1B is taken for the Cardinals and DH’s don’t exist in the NL. Mortensen, if he reaches his full potential, is a middle/back of the rotation starters, Shane Peterson was a throw in.
That's fair
but your (assuming you are a Cards fan) system is relatively weak right now. It’s to be expected, with the graduation of Rasmus and the trade of Perez/Wallace, and a weak system doesn’t mean anything other than that some people’s 2 cents on the talent. I think the current system will still produce some key players, but there’s not much in the upper levels and there’s not much high impact bats and high impact SP.
on a side note
I am fascinated by Hearne, and Lance Lynn is a solid looking middle of the rotation type arm.
for you to get the picks
you hafta offer him arbitration. which he may take you up on. 14-15 mil range maybe. good luck with that.
From what I'm reading
The trade takes you out of the Halladay sweepstakes, which is the most important thing for us Cubs fans.
Thanks for the update about the DH...
Did the MLB just change it? No…wait, they never have. Well, I guess that must be useless info then. Your system has been emptied. This is your one shot at it for a number of years now…You better hope it works…
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 25, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Holliday can still hit even though his career numbers are a product of Coors Field
Also remember how close this division race has been. This deal is enough for them to make a run.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I agree...couple this trade with DeRo and that one guy they have at 1st base
and this could be the team to beat in the division
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Jul 24, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
and his numbers being down this year
can be attributed in part to playing in Oakland, a very bad hitters park. he has gone from one extreme (Coors Field) to the other. Also, he is now playing for a contender, that should motivate him a bit more.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 25, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow
at first when my co-worker belted out the Cards got Holliday, I thought he meant the guy from Toronto. Now that would put the cards over the top. This one however I don’t think will do that.
"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"
In a year where the division isn't this lousy...
…the Holliday deal wouldn’t do it. Given that the Astros can actually make a run at it (unlikely, but bear with me), they needed to make a deal. The Cubs are the victim of big contracts, which limits their ability to make any major moves. Pittsburgh isn’t going to send Sanchez here without getting some major prospects in return that they can trade elsewhere for more prospects.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Holliday or Bradley??
I’d rather have Holliday. Hit .340 and 36 home runs in ‘07. Colorado isn’t the bandbox it once was. Batting avereages may be higher yes, but home runs there have gone way down. Bradley has never come close to 36 home runs..
Just saying that this will mark another position on the field where the Cards field a better player..
The journey is the reward!
Holliday vs. Bradley - Career OPS
Matt Holliday at home (mostly Coors) – 1.047
Matt Holliday on the road – .801
Milton Bradley career – .821
by Jody Jody Davis on Jul 24, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
yes, but
Holliday career best in home runs 36 and rbi 137..Bradley never over 22 hrs and 77 rbi..plus Holliday a younger player…Again though I realize that Holliday shouldn’t be really be compared to Bradley..Soriano I guess..
The journey is the reward!
Milton Bradley this year:
.730 OPS. Holliday is around 100 points higher this year, and seems to be heating up, whereas Bradley is going back to “Hitting 101”.
DEJESUS!!!
Holliday has had to do the same.
Holliday’s swing was all kinds of messed up this year, due largely to instruction he received from Mark McGwire in the off season (he was trying a new swing this year). Holliday’s had to relearn his old swing in the middle of the season because he was doing so poorly.
But of course when Bradley does something, it’s worse simply because it’s Bradley.
It's worse
because he hasn’t had the turnaround Holliday has.
DEJESUS!!!
my mistake..
i see he plays left. for some reason thought he was a right fielder
The journey is the reward!
I really had to think about that....
….and research for a little bit.
Freddy Sanchez: Average (2009)
BA: .303
RISP: .307
RISP 2 -out: .345
Three year Average (2006-2008):
BA: .306
RISP: .344
RISP 2-out: .339
I’ll take him over the current options. He actually is a BETTER hitter with RISP.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jul 24, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting Freddy Sanchez
will hurt the Cubs’ chances. Stay far far away!
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Yeah, not sure how that would help us.
We just need to start doing a strict Baker / Fontenot platoon at 2nd.
Nothing is going to help us now
Let’s get ready for next season,
Shut down Soriano so that his knee can heal. Have surgery if needed
Enroll MB into meditation classes so that he can learn to relax
Get Soto on a diet.
"Stay thirsty my friends."
Yeah, a game back in the division at just past halfway.
Won like 7 out of the last 12.
Lets shut it down.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 24, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I would
If we somehow limp into the playoffs, which I seriously doubt, who the Hell are we capable of beating? I would prefer to sit Soriano so that his knee can heal to ensure he is ready for next season. Same with Milt and Geo. The Cubs don’t have the money to make a big name acquisition, so what we are going to win it all with Darryl Lipschitz Jr?
"Stay thirsty my friends."
the 06 Cardinals
would like a word.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 24, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I sure they would
I know, if the Cubs get hot at the right time, anything can happen. I just don’t see it happening. In my short memory, when the Cubs start foo poorly, they end poorly.
"Stay thirsty my friends."
Your memory must be really really short then
In 2007 the Cubs started the season by going 32-39, and made the playoffs.
And then went 0-3 against Arizona
I will say making the playoffs was an accomplishment that year.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Playoffs are a crapshoot.
The best teams don’t always win (see: 2006 Cardinals, 2003 Marlins, etc) – you just have to get there.
That said, you’re just jumping late to the discussion and adding nothing – the OP was suggesting that we should “shut it down” for the year because we have no chance of making the playoffs, because when Cubs teams start poorly they end poorly.
Or the '03 Marlins and '05 WS.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
if there was a way to shut it down and reload for the future,
i would consider that. but, we have very few chips to trade—and we can’t get rid of the weight we need to in order to reload, so we’re just gonna have to play with what we have. i don’t think it’s enough, but we’ll see.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
you're kidding I hope
Shut it down when you’re a game back??? Get a grip!
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 25, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
So quick to give up while we're 1.5 games back?
And we have a series against the slumping Reds while the Cards are visiting the Phillies, the hottest team in the majors. I still believe the Cubs are winning this division regardless, we just need the starting pitching to get healthy and the bats to continue heating up like they have been.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Jul 24, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Don’t fool yourself, the Cubs hit against the Nats, a little league team could beat them, and they won one game against the Phils. All of the sudden, they are Playoff bound!!! Get Real
"Stay thirsty my friends."
Holliday has great post All-Star numbers and
has put up good numbers in Busch. Oakland is not a hitters park, maybe Holliday’s numbers are slightly better from Coors but not too much in my opinion.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Jul 24, 2009 12:13 PM CDT reply actions
More protection for Pooholes
Gonna be real tough to pitch around him now..
The journey is the reward!
stand up
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jul 24, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
FAIL!
The rules were you were to only use two words with the second one being “up”. Ugh, don’t make a maniac outta me…
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jul 24, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Judges confer...
They’ll allow it!!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jul 24, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
That's fair.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jul 24, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
well said.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 25, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a big upgrade for them for this year
The Cardinals have gotten the following from their LF this year: .212/.294/.342 (.635 OPS). Holliday this year: .286/.378/.454 (.831 OPS). That’s a .200 point increase.
And it means that DeRosa can play 3B exclusively, which means they aren’t forced to go with Thurston/Barden there.
Holliday is definitely not the same player he was in Coors. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a huge addition for the Cardinals.
agreed. they've really filled the gaps.
i think they’re division favorites—and by a wide margin.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
this is a good short-term, bad long term move.
the cardinals paid way too much, compromised the future a bit, and might have made it harder to sign pujols (or easier, who can tell?). however, their line up is now very dangerous with derosa looking like his old self. the cubs are in big trouble and have no real help coming. i think the cards compete for the pennant this year.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
they play the
phillies and dodgers the next week. i guess we’ll get a hint soon.
OMG
I might as well stop watching the Cubs now.
Excuse me while I commit Cub suicide and cut myself off from everything. There are no reinforcements coming people. It’s done, it’s over.
by IllinoisCubs on Jul 24, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
did i sound that hysterical? didn't mean to.
i’m not freaking out. we have a shot, but one must recognize that the cards have a better team right now. seems easy enough.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
and emptied their system to do so
thanks st. louis. i will appreciate this dumb move greatly the next few years.
possible. they must always be thinking of the looming pujols deal, right?
they have gutted their farm system this year, which makes me wonder if they’re not at least considering the idea of trading pujols for a megaload of prospects. i expect pujols to stick around, of course, but they’re going to have to restock. then again, they are going to have a lot of draft picks coming after this year.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would you keep saying Pujols would sign with the Cards...
Or especially this could make it easier? I don’t see at all how getting rid of your best prospect for players that aren’t signed for next year, helps the Cards sign him. To have a hope for resigning Pujols they have to hope he takes a HUGE hometown discount…I fail to see at all how weakening the team for years after this one would help the Cards sign Pujols in the future. The days of a player staying in a city for family or to stay with one team are over….it’s simply rarely a factor now with the huge dollars out there. Possible? surely. Likely or easier? That makes no sense.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 25, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Pujols isn't going anywhere.
The Cardinals aren’t going to trade the best player in the game, nor are they going to refuse to give him anything he wants.
I think a few folks said the same thing about A-Rod.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 26, 2009 2:50 AM CDT up reply actions
There is no comparison between A-Rod and Pujols
Pujols is going to want to go further from KC than he is right now. Plus I’d say his heavy financial investments in the area show his commitment. The man seriously digs the whole “play like a Cardinal” thing. He’s not going anywhere.
They may be closer than you think. Before A-Rod left Seattle, people were
saying the exact same thing you said. Many experts predicted that there was no way that the Mariners would lose one of the best players in the game. Most figured that he would eventually sign a long-term deal and remain in Seattle.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 27, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Pujols might accept less $$ to stay in StL
but he won’t accept a lot less. Pujols will follow the money especially since this will likely be the last deal he has to negotiate. If someone offers him a better deal, he will go.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 27, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah
while you’re sitting on that soriano contract?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Jul 24, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Low Blow Man!
Not cool! Not cool!
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Nice potshot there...
I was wondering how long it would take the trolls to come out after signing Holliday. If the Cards don’t make it out of the first round of the playoffs the cockiness will only be in St. Louis for sure.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 25, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's another cool link
that gives a little more information about the prospects involved and a pretty good analyzation of the trade as a whole:
mlbdailydish.com story
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Jul 24, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions
From MLBTR:
Erik Manning of FanGraphs says the A’s are big winners for acquiring Brett Wallace.
Jon Heyman calls it a “great deal” for the A’s
Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus calls it an “outstanding” trade for Oakland.
I can agree with all those things
They get a plus bat that’s ready now. Oakland doesn’t have any rotation issues (I mean, their young arms need time), and their pen is fine. They needed bats. With Hairston and Wallace, they’ve started assembling the pieces for 2010, and some youngsters will get shots to see if they can fill roles.
Oakland
got a great haul, but if St L wins the WS, then nobody will care about Wallace.
DEJESUS!!!
Meh...Oakland did get a good haul. If St.Louis wins the WS, nobody in STL will care about Wallace...
But I’m sure Oakland will. And if he performs as well as scouts hope then a lot more of the league will. It’s worth the try but is definitely risky….looks great if it puts them over the top, but there’s gonna be a LOT of fallout if the Cards don’t go anywhere in October.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 25, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed that oakland did well.
the cubs didn’t. i am glad, however, that they got holliday instead of halladay; that would’ve been worse.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Out here in the Bay Area
the local papers are far more skeptical about the deal. The A’s have made more than a few deals where they gave up a proven all star caliber guy for “can’t miss” prospects. Unfortunately most of the can’t miss prospects missed lately. Maybe this time they will pan out.
BTW, the A’s called up EPat. They have him playing OF. He had great numbers in AAA Sacramento. This looks to be his big chance to be in the lineup and show he belongs.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 25, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Well Haren looks to be working out.
Brett Anderson FTW! Cahill and Anderson will be one of the best 1-2 punches in the league soon. And indirectly they got Brett Wallace for him as well.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
The A's have been more successful
acquiring and developing pitchers than hitters. A lot of that has to do with the ballpark, very pitcher friendly.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 26, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Holliday
He’s a good hitter folks. Yes, he benefited from Coors, but his away line from 06-08 is solid. I posted the numbers in the other thread to day, but after a disastrous start, he’s been fairly solid this year. Actually, he’s adjusted to Oakland’s park fine – his away line this year has been the disappointing aspect. He’s a solid starting corner OF.
From a short term perspective, this is a big move for the Cards. Shores up the middle of their lineup, with DeRosa probably batting 6th. With the Lugo addition, there’s some versatility and options now (Lugo might be able to form a quality platoon with Skip Schumaker). For the A’s, they are out of it, and getting 3 pieces, 3 solid pieces, versus the potential 2 picks. Furthermore, there’s a good chance that if they offered Holliday arbitration, that he might accept, putting them in a bind. Brett Wallace is a good bat. Your classic 1st/DH type. Shane Peterson and Clay Mortenson are solid enough pieces. Mortenson is along the mitch atkins/esmailin caridad level of end of the rotation/middle relief type. Peterson’s a decent OF, but a guy you can find.
Long run, I wonder if the Cardinals end up regretting Wallace for Holliday. It’s not that I think Wallace has a huge future there (he’s not really a 3rd baseman, he’s not really a corner OF, and Pujols has first). But rather, I wonder if Walalce would’ve been better used in another trade. That said, I’ll admit that I can’t think of much that they could use Walalce to get right now.
As for the Cards system, it’s weak now. Mortenson and Peterson weren’t top guys, but solid top 20 guys for them. That said, with Rasmus’ graduation and Brett Wallace gone, that leaves the system very dry. Some pen arms (and likely Samuel or Todd will head to Cleveland), some mid-end of the rotation guys, a couple intriguing OF’s, and a solid shortstop talent in Peter Kozma. Very spotty. Well, there’s Wagner Mateo and Shelby Miller, high upside but far, far, far away kids. That said, their focus is now and Miller/Mateo give them the upside to build around.
Yeah, Holliday is good and the division title will be tough to take.
On the other hand, I think this signals that there’s not really any place for them to put Glaus. Am I wrong?
As for Lugo, he hasn’t got much platoon split to take advantage of. Lugo, for example, is hitting righties better than Freddy Sanchez this year, but then that’s not saying much really.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
actually
i was referring to his small sample against lefties. Skip’s been horrible against lefties.
I figure they'd bench DeRosa if Glaus returns...
C – Molina
1B – Pujols
2B – Schumacker
3B – Glaus
SS – Lugo
LF – Holliday
CF – Rasmus
RF – Ludwick
Bench: DeRosa (corner infield sub), Ankiel (OF sub), backup C, backup middle-IF, somebody else)
I figure this move was made to give them a strong bat in the event that Glaus doesn’t return (or that he doesn’t return to form). They’ll go with DeRosa at 3B until Glaus shows he’s ready. And if Glaus is ready, they’ll have no problem using DeRosa as a bat off the bench.
Last I heard
the expectations for Glaus weren’t high. Basically, a pinch hitter that may sub a bit. I thought I read somewhere that they were working him in the corner OF spots, or maybe it was first.
Agreed
Although Glaus is close to returning, it probably won’t be at third. Not sure on the specifics but the chatter I’ve read is he still has arm issues such that making the throw from 3B just ain’t gonna work. But throws from the outfield might be serviceable.
Bottom line – if his bat is back, Tony will find a way to get him in the lineup.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Cardinal Fans React
Link to the Post Dispatch: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/commishs-hot-stove/commishs-hot-stove/2009/07/espn-report-cards-getting-closer-on-holliday-trade/
Having just moved from STL I know a lot of Cardinal fans. Most aren’t too happy about it; I think they would have been happier if it was spelled Halladay.
they didn't have the pieces for Halladay unless
it was an all-in blank check type move, particularly after the DeRosa deal. Even then, a blank check might not have been enough.
Suspect this is worth a win or two, which is all it might take...
….if Soriano and Bradley hit (how many times have we heard that phrase this year?) it essentially could even out…
Its still going to be a close race IMO
Major hunky dory addition by the Cardinals
Matt Holliday hitting in that lineup is a big deal. Cardinals are clearly going for it. DeRosa, Lugo and Holliday add to what was already a fine lineup to begin with. And Colby Rasmus keeps getting better and better.
Keep in mind Holliday is also a good outfielder.
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
already a fine lineup?
pujols, tremendous. rasmus, good.
team total, middle of the pack.
only ‘fine’ if using ‘coin grading scale’, by which fine means deplorable.
ludwick, very good.
i think it is absolutely a fine lineup. just comparing it to the cubs, i think i would take the cardinals lineup at every position (except for ‘healthy’ ramirez, maybe theriot over ryan).
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
fonzie over ankiel?
not a soriano fan, but…
i’d take aram or fox over thurston
um.
it’s now:
rasmus/ludwick/holliday over soriano/fukudome/bradley (not in that order, of course)
and aram vs. derosa. (rami wins, but derosa’s no slouch)
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
BLou said
‘an already fine lineup’
so my comps are based on their original lineup.
yeah, stl wins the division prolly in 2009. but my ideas are based on the future. not now. if the cards go down in the NLDS in five games, this trade is a plus/plus for the cubs.
+10
Yes as St. Louis I’d make the trade, but that doesn’t at all negate that it’s very risky. Not only do they gut their farm system, but you have to depend on signing Pujols in the future. Both of them weaken your future and if the Cards don’t get to the promised land you know they will regret it. Seems worth the risk to me, let’s just be honest that it’s going for the present and a big chance they are taking.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 25, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Trading Brent Wallace was like Milwaukee trading Matt LaPorta
In both cases the prospect in question didn’t have a set position in the future of the ballclub. LaPorta is a first baseman / DH, and the Brewers have Fielder. Wallace needs to move to first base, and of course the Cardinals have Pujols.
Cardinals made a wise move in a division they are best poised to win.
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
agreed.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
for 2009, you are correct.
into the future, i love this trade from a cubs standpoint.
You do realize the Cubs have a terrible farm system?
At least according to every analyst in the universe. Not Brewers or Astros bad, but terrible.
huh
That’s just an odd system.
First, the Cubs system has improved. I doubt we’re a bottom five system. Probably still in that 21-25 range, although a case could be made for higher depending on who is judging.
2nd, the Brewers system isn’t bad. It’s got a great top tier, a terrible 2nd tier as there isn’t enough readiness in key areas.
3rd, the Astros system has been improved. I think a lot of people are judging on preseason. With Jordan Lyles and Ross Seaton, they have two very intriguing young arms, and most folks love Castro (I have my doubts, but it’s funny, they were bashed badly for the Castro pick and now he’s very highly thought of).
nope
i didn’t realize that. i guess i overvalue vitters, jackson, castro, lake, carpenter, cashner, thomas, watkins, and a few others. but i guess you are the expert, so i should defer to you. but i won’t.
anything that pisses off cardinals fans this much amuses me.
Vitters is our only A prospect.
Castro, Jackson, and Cashner are B prospects. The rest are C and below.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
reading that spring 2009 prospectus again
the one that has wallace as a cardinal.
good comp
i liked both trades from a cubs perspective. drain your system.
the cubs system is now top two or three in the division.
but we're a team built to win now
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 24, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
my personal decisions are based on the timeline of a decade
i’m not optimistic about an underperforming cubs team doing much in october 2009.
but the cards mortgaged their future today, moreso than milwaukee last year. i’m good with that.
That's not much to say in this division.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
In the words of Scooby Do
Ruh Roh. With the way Carpenters bounced back, this could make them scary
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Cardinals will, at some point, pull away in the NL Central
I think they win this division by 5 games minimum.
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
hmmm....
they’d better start pulling away really quick. if they stumble this week against philly and LA, there may be too many teams in the hunt for them to win by 5. but, even if they do, i luv this trade from a cubs perspective in 2010 and out.
if the cubs play all 162
and play 50-50 ball the rest of the way, with today’s result, they would go 83-79 on the season
for the cardinals to beat the cubs by five games,
st. louis will have to have a record of 88-74. since their present record is 52-46, they would need to go 36-28 the rest of the way. they can certainly do that, but that is a winning percentage of .5625. 5 games minimum is a ballsy call.
Ouch.
Like it or not, this hurts.
I agree with Lou, the Cubs needs a LH RBI guy (though Lou actually said LH power bat and then said “a couple of hitters”).
I don’t think we’re making any moves for a professional run-driver-inner, though. Maybe a bullpen arm so that Hendry’s actually made a move at the deadline as opposed to doing nothing. Just gotta sit around and wait for a bad bullpen day or two to have an excuse.
I know it’s the attitude of some here that no matter WHAT move ANY of our competitors make it only “hurts them,” but this one stings. Blech.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jul 24, 2009 4:40 PM CDT reply actions
i'd be upset if st. lou
gave up 3-4 in the 15-30 range. but they gave up wallace. their board is enraged, and like it or not, knowlegable cardinals fans are very knowledgable. even if they win the nlc (i’m not sold on them yet), they’ll have a rugged time with beating both philly and l.a. in the postseason. for the redbirds, this trade i ‘pennant or bust’.
if the cubs play ball like they can, it could be a long, cold winter by the arch.
they traded for the wrong halliday
cardinals suck
GO BULLS
by FAN of the BULLS on Jul 24, 2009 8:43 PM CDT reply actions
They got Holliday.
Halladay is still available. Note the different spelling.
"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
