Sanchez to Giants Deal Complete...Bummer.

by BLW Believes Esq. on Jul 29, 2009 6:12 PM CDT Comment 47 comments

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that seems like a HUGE return

for the pirates given the fact that sanchez has slumped horribly and is owed 8 million next year. my guess is the pirates’ GM is celebrating this evening.

by John T. Unger on Jul 29, 2009 6:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I don't think this is much of a "bummer".

The Cubs might have been able to use Sanchez a month ago, but now they really don’t need him. If they want to acquire a similar player, they can probably get Marco Scutaro for less cost in both players and money.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jul 29, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Player Salary

was the deal breaker here!

Go Cubs Go!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jul 29, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they wanted a similar player

they could have acquired Julio Lugo for free. The Giants look really bad in this deal and I am very pleased Jim Hendry did not go down this path.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Jul 29, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lugo was not free

the cards dealt duncan plus ptbnl

by tim815 on Jul 29, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Duncan is hitting .227/.329/.358.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Jul 29, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but lugo was not free

virtually free, i wouldn’t have said anything

by tim815 on Jul 30, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought he'd be a buy some time back too

So who else is out there relatively cheap that can play several defencive positions?

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jul 29, 2009 6:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jeff Baker?

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Jul 29, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

no biggie...

we get to play the AAAA Pirates 9 more times this year.

"They give each other a kiss after every pitch. He kisses her on the strikes and she kisses him on the balls." - Harry Caray

by Hawk8 on Jul 29, 2009 6:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

More like AAAa

by cubbybear on Jul 29, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Pirates

got young in a hurry the last month.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jul 29, 2009 6:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They've also stockpiled quite nicely

They could be very good in the next couple years.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Jul 29, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

until they trade these kids

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jul 29, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was about to say the same thing

by Aramis Ramirez on Jul 29, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

These aren't the Pirates of yesteryear.

Neal Huntington and company are doing a nice job. I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that the Bucs could field a respectable team within the next couple of years. This is, after all, a franchise with 5 World Series titles.

by cubsforever on Jul 30, 2009 4:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

5 World Series titles...

… the last of which was in 1979.

The Pirates will resemble a Triple-A team when they come to Chicago next month.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jul 30, 2009 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well we have two...

the last of which was 1908.

I don’t think anyone of us should be allowed to say anything like that.

Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.

by Cub Style on Jul 30, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"This is, after all, a franchise with 5 World Series titles...."

…..who is on the verge of it’s 17th consecutive losing season.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 30, 2009 6:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad the Cubs didn't do this deal

We didn’t need Sanchez.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Jul 29, 2009 7:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Baker/Fontenot should end up having comparable numbers to Sanchez for the rest of the year. Certainly close enough not to take on that salary.

by madcow256 on Jul 29, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can see how they hit well enough it isn't worth the high salary to sign him

But to say we didn’t need him or that Baker/Fontenot will put up numbers starting with a BA of .296 is making a big leap of faith. From what they are currently hitting, getting half way would be a nice improvement. I’m not sure if we “need” Sanchez…it would depend on who you think you could get besides him (and certainly not just at second base)…and how they would improve the ball club. I think there’s no doubt he would be an upgrade and the amount of players to trade for this season is definitely shrinking. After seeing the Brewers, Cards, Phillies, Giants, all making upgrades to their clubs I’d like seeing a move…an upgrade. Problem is deciding if the prospects are worth giving up.

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 29, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he said "for the rest of the year"....

Baker/Fontenot should end up having comparable numbers to Sanchez for the rest of the year

….so I don’t think that’s too much of a leap of faith. Especially considering Sanchez is 6 for his last 43, has never played in a pennant race, and earlier today even said he’d like to “stay in Pittsburgh”. No one has any way of knowing how he’s going to handle all of this, but he’s in a pressure situation for the first time in his career. Maybe he flourishes, maybe that pressure gets to him.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 29, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sanchez is mostly a singles hitter

OPS of .776 right now. Fontenot and Baker might not be able to match his BA, but I think we can get at least mid .700’s OPS production out of that platoon. I don’t really care about BA if it’s all singles.

by madcow256 on Jul 30, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

As long as the 2 platooning 2B aren’t killing us, we can do without Sanchez (who has been slumping)…..As long as they don’t miss game winning sac bunts…

by TuscaniLove on Jul 29, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen!

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 30, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow the pirates got way more than they should have gotten.

Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball

by lexmarklover on Jul 29, 2009 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Pirates have pulled off three outstanding trades

They got outstanding return in the deal for Nate McLouth and in today’s deal for Jack Wilson / Ian Snell and Freddy Sanchez. You got to hand it to Neal Huntington. Seems to me he knows what the heck he is doing.

Count me as a HUGE fan of Andrew McCutcheon too. That kid is going to be a real good one.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Jul 29, 2009 7:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

didn't they get Onedec??

“outstanding return”…did you mean “over-sliding return?”

"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru

by LAcarl519 on Jul 29, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

count me as a fan of Mccutchen as well

but I’m not sure about the trade returns. Gorkys Hernandez was the center of the McLouth deal, and the Braves had definitely soured on him (probably bc he can’t seem to slug over .400 and has a 700 OPS in AA this year.) Plus he is a CF, and Mccutchen will be out there until they can’t afford him. The other guys from ATL were fringy, though Charlie Morton could be serviceable. For Wilson (a fan favorite) and Snell (the best stuff of any Pirate pitcher in the last decade) they got Jeff Clement (who appears to be headed for AAAA-hitter status but could turn it around) and spare parts/organization guys. And for Sanchez, they definitely got the best return in a former #1 draft pick who’s having success in AA, but Alderson seems to be developing into a low-K/control type guy, and a lot of ppl more knowledgeable about prospects (like Kevin Goldstein) seem to doubt his future success.

I guess they got rid of some bad contracts, but it’s not like guys are lining up to sign big free agent contracts in Pittsburgh…I think they did well for the quality of players they had to offer, but I don’t think Huntington pulled off any major steals. I kinda wish the Cubs had made a quiet play for Snell, because I think he might have just needed a change of scenery, but otherwise all the news from west PA has been kinda meh. The east side of PA today, however…

by PrincetonCubs on Jul 29, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clement isn't so much a AAAA hitter.

It’s more a question of will his bat play in a non-catcher starting role. He’ll have a career as a backup 1B/LF/RF/PH if nothing else.

by cubsforever on Jul 30, 2009 4:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoa

Jeff Locke is a good arm. Struggling, but a good arm. To me, he was the key to that deal.

Btw, Gorkys has flaws, but he’s a leadoff guy/type. Not too concerned about the SLG there.

I think Huntington’s made some solid moves. Not great, but solid moves, and moves that are understandable. Actually, the one deal I sorta didn’t like was the deal he made with us, but even then, you could sort of understand it, as Grabow wasn’t exactly at his past form and Gorzelanny was in the minors.

Is Alderson a bit overhyped? Yes, with the way valuation has changed in baseball, elite arms don’t get dealt. Alderson’s in that next tier of arms, potential solid middle of the rotation guy, with a bit more upside if he physically matures.

I liked the Seattle deal for both sides. Seattle didn’t give up any high upside arms, but getting a quantity of arms is easier said than done with how trades have changed. For Pittsburgh, they give up an overachieving shortstop and an inconsistent starter, and a starter that quit on the team and went to AAA. Getting a decent defensive shortstop and a quantity of arms is fine. I don’t think much of Clement – there’s been bad reports on his load time.

Huntington hasn’t hit a “home run” persay, but he’s made some solid, solid moves. He hasn’t had the best chips to deal, and he’s done well with what he’s had.

by toonsterwu on Jul 30, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mccutchen

Looks quite promising even after pitchers have got scouting reports on him.

by TuscaniLove on Jul 29, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WAHOOO

we didn’t waste money and prospects for a minimal upgrade WAHOOO!!

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 29, 2009 9:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+10

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Pirates still suck

Sure, they made some deals. Collectively, they are a train wreck. They’ve traded a way some good talent in the last five years going back to giving the Cubs ARAM for Bobby Morris and someone else I can’t remember. All they’ve done is continue to send away talent for prospects. Wonderful ballpark, in a city with some good baseball history. I can’t really describe all these deals as good. Especially when continuing to get younger in the pitching department. This drives away fans. I can’t imagine supporting that team if I lived in Pittsburgh.

by Nibbles on Jul 29, 2009 9:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cubs got: Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton
Pirates got: Bobby Hill and Luis Hernandez

I believe that’s how it went.

"Live and be happy, beloved children of my heart, and never forget that until the day comes when God will deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is contained in these words: wait and hope!" - The Count of Monte Cristo

by Bricks and Ivy on Jul 29, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I live near Pittsburgh.

Die hard Steeler fans (except me). Die hard Penguins fans (except me). No Pirates fans my age (23). The last time they were above .500 I was six. It is hard for people my age to follow a team and fall in love with them when they threw a minor league team out there year after year. I have a buddy who lives about 5 minutes from PNC Park and he said he likes the Red Sox because he was never able to watch a decent team in Pitts his whole life.

I do think they are making the right moves though. McClouth was overrated. He had a a good half season last year and thats it really. He’s average at best. If you aren’t winning with the players you have and can get first round draft picks and good prospects for them you gotta do it.

by Bricks and Ivy on Jul 29, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ARam always comes to mind first, and you can sure throw in Jason Bay in there...

I’m not trying to start a string of players traded, cause that could take a day or more…just sayin’ he sure turned out to be a good trade for Boston this season as well.

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 30, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jul 30, 2009 12:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If there are any Pirates fans left... they gotta be even more pissed.

The Bucs are never too far away from playing .500 or better. But, then they overpay whomever is their best player at the time (Bay, Wilson, Sanchez, LaRoche)… because they need to keep them to appear like they are trying to win. Then, they eventually trade them away because of the money, and start from ground zero again.

They could have a lineup of Jason Bay, Nate Mclouth/Nyjer Morgan, Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, and Jack Wilson… not too bad of a squad if you pitch well.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jul 30, 2009 9:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

no, they couldn't

when you’re only drawing what they’re drawing, they wouldn’t be able to re-sign quality.

by tim815 on Jul 30, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And it sounds like they've done a pretty good job of reloading with these deals

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 30, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They overpaid to re-sign those guys to begin with...

because of their desperate situation to retain veteran talent. The overpaying causes the chain reaction of having to deal them later.

Look at the #s here on 2009 salaries
Jason Bay = $7.8 mil
Nate McLouth = $2.5 mil (good contract)
Nyjer Morgan = $411,500 (great contract)
Adam LaRoche = $7.05 mil
Freddy Sanchez = $6.25 mil
Jack Wilson = $7.4 mil

McLouth and Morgan were the cheapest, but they have a top CF prospect in McCutcheon.

To me, there’s no sign of this repeating process changing at all.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jul 30, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not a bummer at all.

If Giants fans think they’re getting a “bat,” they’re in for an unpleasant surprise. One Giants blogger I follow on Twitter was NOT happy about losing that pitching prospect.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Sanchez’s numbers are not impressive at all, unless you look at just his games against the Cubs.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Jul 30, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alderson is damn good.

The kid literally has pinpoint control. His stuff is good, not great, but that control makes up for it. I mean hey, the best pitch in baseball is a well located fastball, and it looks like we’ll have to deal with that for a while.

Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.

by Cub Style on Jul 30, 2009 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs