What to do with the bench
by DGU on Jul 3, 2009 1:19 PM CDT
72 comments
When Aramis Ramirez and Reed Johnson come back Monday, the Cubs will have some roster decisions to make. One of the easiest ways to open an extra bench spot, would be to go to 11 pitchers, using Heilman and Marshall for two innings each time they go out. But it would be a huge surprise to see Lou do that. That means, we've got 4 bench spots (minus the backup C) and several guys vying for that spot. Here's a rundown on what I see each being valuable for and what the Cubs might do.
Our defense v. RHP is likely to be Ramirez-Theriot-2B-Lee, with Soto behind the plate, and Soriano-Dome-Bradley. That 2B spot is an open question, more to follow. Reed Johnson is the only certain change in the defense v. LHP, taking Dome's spot. So, RJ grabs one of the four bench spots.
Reed Johnson
Defensive value: Can play all three OF spots
Offensive value: Mashes LHP; below average v. RHP.
Defensive value: Can play all three OF spots
Offensive value: Can get on base and has a little speed
Defensive value: Can play 3B, 2B, and corner OF competently
Offensive value: Mashes LHP; has potential v. RHP, including some power
Defensive value: Best middle IF on club
Offensive value: None; v. RHP he is hitting .218/.283/.255
Defensive value: Good 2B; competent 3B
Offensive value: Up for debate; was one of the best hitting 2B last year
Defensive value: Competent 1B; below average corner OF
Offensive value: Up for debate; has shown power, but his K rate is accelerating
Defensive value: Up for debate; previously considered to be none
Offensive value: Looks to be solid
We have four spots to fill after RJ from the pool of Fuld, Baker, Blanco, Fontenot, Hofffpauir, and Fox. The first thing to decide is who should start at 2B v. RHP. I'd play both Fontenot and Baker over Blanco, at least for now. So, Fontenot takes my starting 2B v. RHP role. That leaves three bench spots and five players.
Fuld seems to be the easiest to discard; despite his good showing, he doesn't offer enough different from RJ. I think if you want to argue for Fuld, you have to argue against RJ, and really, that's just not realistic. Three spots - four players.
Blanco offers the SS backup, so that Riot can rest. I'd keep him.
I like Jeff Baker and think he's the first choice for a platoon partner with Fontenot, so I keep him, too.
That leaves Jake Fox and Micah Hoffpauir. Fox is hitting; Micah isn't. Fox is right handed, though, and initially, you'd think no one on this bench is really proven against right-handed pitching. Look at Fox's splits, though. He's actually killing RHP and not doing that hot v. LHP. So, I'd keep Fox and say "Happy trails" to Swing 'n Miss Micah.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
0 recs |
72 comments
Email
Print
Comments
I agree with your assessment.
I’d really hate to see Fox sent down at this point. His defense has not yet been exposed (I realize that time may come though) and it always seems like he puts a good swing on balls. I believe it was last week when he went 0-4, but all 4 were flyballs/line drives. He’s impressed me thus far. It may be a small sample size, but Fox has proven that he can come in cold and deliver as a PH.
I’d like to see Blanco stay, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he got sent down either.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jul 3, 2009 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if Blanco goes to Iowa, who is the backup SS?
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 4, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir
He needs to make an impression quick or I think he’s down to AAA or traded for a prospect or two.
by ak123 on Jul 3, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt we'd have the option of picking up a prospect
Odds are he ends up back in AAA
by madcow256 on Jul 3, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we could get anything for Hoffpauir
we would have done so by now.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 3, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
first I would get rid of the bench and make them stand.....just kidding
I say go with 11 pitchers for at least a couple of weeks and see what happens.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 3, 2009 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
11 pitchers could work...
if they drop to 4 man rotation
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jul 4, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we know THAT will never happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 5, 2009 4:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do the Cubs have 11 pitchers now?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 7, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
but they don’t have ONLY 11 pitchers now.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll just state
Sam Fuld has done a great job thus far today coming off the bench and had a great AB.
Plus we might need an 8th inning replacement for Bradley in RF if it’s sunny!
by ak123 on Jul 3, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Baker can play RF
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 4, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano
belongs on the bench. Lou needs to manage instead of babysit. Of course, that ain’t gonna happen. We saw the difference today with Fuld out of the leadoff spot. The offense had no energy as in the past 2 games. Play the hot hand until it burns out. To score only 1 run off Suppan spoke volumes.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 3, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Clearly, his knee isn't 100%
We’ve got some guys on hot streaks right now. I’d rather put him on the DL for a couple weeks and see who plays well enough to stick around.
by shoemile on Jul 3, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Font and Hoff are struggling. Thus, they need to be sent down.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
by lexmarklover on Jul 3, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot is the odd man out
With Baker here.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 3, 2009 4:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
my hunch
or maybe this is what i would do, but i’d send jake fox down for one reason: value.
Baker fills a fairly similar role as Fox offensively, as a righty bat with some pop. Both are guys with minor league performance. Sending Hoffpauir down wouldn’t really enhance his value.
If Aramis is healthy and playing, I’d send Jake Fox down with the mandate of, he needs to play 3rd fairly regularly. He can still enhance his value if he shows improved defensive capability. Baker’s value is pretty much set – we just dealt for him and he hasn’t played much this year. If he gets it going, then we keep him. If not, he gets demoted. Hoffpauir can rake AAA, and as a backup 1st/corner OF/DH type, he’s not going to enhance his value that much more.
Assuming a 12 man staff, I’d guess
Baker/Fontenot split 2nd
Johnson/Fukudome split CF
leaving 2 more spots, one of which would be Blanco, as we don’t have a backup shortstop. Last spot? I’d guess Hoffpauir, though I’m not against sending Hoffpauir down and keeping Fuld up here for a bit.
by toonsterwu on Jul 3, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hoff really needs to go down
He is struggling at the plate which was the only aspect of his game that brought him up to the big leagues in the first place. I say send him down let him work on his mechanics and polish some things out as-well-as get better in the field. Then he can come back up at the latest in september and be ready to contribute. (Hopefully)
by D-rose on Jul 3, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You think that DFA'ing Baker...
is even in the realm of possibility? (Enough to include it in a poll, I mean)
Based on your commentary, I know you’re big on Baker so you’re not saying we should do that. But it strikes me as not even in the realm of possibility, so I’m surprised it was even an option on the poll…(If we were just going to DFA him, why in hell would we have traded for him?).
My choice, btw. is to option Hoffpauir and Fontenot.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 3, 2009 5:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I figured people should get it as a poll option
I try to keep my biases out of the polls as much as possible.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 3, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok.
That makes sense, I guess. Was just curious :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jul 5, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that 11 people voted to DFA Baker is, well, interesting...
…in a slap to the forehead kinda way.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 6, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Backup SS
can be in Iowa. If Theriot is hurt, Fontenot can play there for a couple of innings, and then Blanco can be called up the next day.
I think Hoffpauir would get it going again if given more regular playing time.
At the risk of really beating a dead horse, my position is that Soriano needs to go on the DL to heal his legs, preferably over the all-star break. That means if you send down Blanco, you can keep Fox, Hoffpauir, Fontenot, Baker, Johnson, and Fuld for the time being.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on Jul 3, 2009 5:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree that a DL move might make the roster cut only one person
but eventually the decisions will have to be made, so I was working under that assumption.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 3, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no way Baker is being DFA'd.
He just got here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 3, 2009 5:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It takes...
at least two trips to the DL to get DFA.
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jul 4, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is nothing
Hoffpauir brings that Fox doens’t do better. I would argue that Fontenot has declined offensively to the point that Blanco outplays him both ways as well.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 3, 2009 5:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right here.
Fuld can back up the same OF spots that Hoffpauir could — and play better defense. Fox can back up 1B. I think it would make sense to option Hoffpauir and Fontenot, despite their previous contributions.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 3, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could argue that
and it would mean that you hadn’t looked at how horrendously Blanco is hitting right-handed pitching.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 3, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanco is here to play defense at shortstop and 2nd base
Anything he does with the bat is a bonus.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 3, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanco - Hoffpauir
As mentioned, Blanco can be sent down and called back up again to play SS if necessary. An interview with Trammel last week indicates they really like his glove. But that was before the Baker trade and I don’t think you can justify keeping Blanco over the other players who have been filling-in.
If memory serves, Hoffpauir might be out of options.
Hate to see the contributors, like Fox and what we’ve seen of Fuld, waste on the bench.
We have to see more of what Fuld, Baker and Ramirez can do to make sense out of this for the near future
by AboutTheCubs on Jul 3, 2009 7:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir and Fontenot need to go
Jake Fox and Micah Hoffpauir can’t co-exist on the same bench. That being the case I opt for Fox.
Andres Blanco is a competent defensive middle infielder and that trumps what Fontenot has to offer.
Bench should be Koyie Hill, Andres Blanco, Jake Fox, Reed Johnson, Sam Fuld.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 3, 2009 10:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who are you starting at 2nd?
Baker?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 3, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baker and Blanco
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 3, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think Sori will be put on the DL on Monday
to hash out who the other casualty will be. A lot of things can be decided during that week of play, plus the all star break gives plenty of time to figure things out. However, if that doesn’t happen, my vote was for Hoffpauir and Fontenot.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 1:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well, Fuld's sticking around
and leading off according to Sullivan. This is Fuld’s chance to establish himself. With Aramis and Reed a few days away, Fuld’s gotta be on the hot seat a bit, but he’s getting his shot, which is all we could hope for. Work the counts, slap some singles, be smart on the basepaths and he could stick.
by toonsterwu on Jul 4, 2009 1:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll see.
I think I remember E-Pat last year getting 3 or 4 days of starting only to be sent down anyway. Keeping Fuld will really complicate matters in trying to have a bench with a broad base of abilities. If you keep Fuld, I think you have to send Hoffpauir down.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 4, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hoff
any player needs at bats to succeed.with a 230 hitter blocking the way in rf where do you play fox or micah? sure wish we had the dh.
by NOMAR on Jul 4, 2009 9:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
True but...
Hoff has had his opportunities to start and he’s had some 0-?’s. He had a strong start and solid batting average but it just keeps on dropping. Fox is doing every better with his power.
I’m not going to make predictions because you never know the different scenarios but I say Hoffpauir strikes out if it was his at-bat in the 10th inning yesterday.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interestingly enough
Fox wouldn’t have even gotten a chance to bat yesterday in the 10th if DiFelice could have gotten any one of his first three pitches to Geo in the same area code as home plate, finally necessitating the intentional ball four. I suspect Yost Macha would rather not have faced Fox with nowhere to put him.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
by Goodie1969 on Jul 4, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never know
Willie Randolf might have informed Macha who Fox is….apparently that’s the only way he knows NL players.
But Fox proved yesterday he has patience. He’s had good at-bats like that before but this was the most important one. Maybe Hoffpauir could do the same, but it wasn’t his at-bat and therefore it wasn’t his opportunity to shine.
Plus, Fox can’t be any worse in RF than Milton if he needs to sit.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Hoffpauir seems to be more aggressive at the plate, even when the situation warrants patience.
Fox is a more complete player than Hoff. He has Bradley’s patience and, right now, a better bat than Bradley. No way should Micah get the nod over Jake when it comes to decision time.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
by Goodie1969 on Jul 4, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw the numbers below.
That is a pretty stark contrast.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
by Goodie1969 on Jul 4, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Micah has played in 11 games over the last 2 weeks
Starting in 6 of them. If that isn’t enough ABs for him to succeed, I hope we’re never in a position where he does (meaning, hopefully neither Lee or Bradley is out for a long time).
by madcow256 on Jul 4, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
44AB in June for Hoffpauir
.182 batting average with an OBP of .200 and a ratio of striking out about 33% of the time and taking only 1 walk.
That’s pretty horrible.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
46AB in June for Fox
.304 batting average with an OBP of .340 and has struck out 4 times and walked 3.
While he doesn’t walk often, the walks he did take were important. I think we’re all in agreement that Fox is staying and Hoff might go down but wow, those numbers are a huge difference.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his role on this team
is to be a left bat off the bench in clutch PH situations.
If he can’t do his job, then he should be sent down — just like we’re talking about with Fontenot.
You can’t have it both ways.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else besides Fuld goes to AAA?
Fontenot is very effective against RH pitching, but needs a platoon partner which leads us to …
Baker who can split time at 2b with Fontenot and can back up ARam, who will need a lot of days off, at 3b, so Baker’s versatility earns him a spot
Fox has earned the right to stay with the big club. He can spell ARam and Soriano in LF and is a big RH bat off the bench.
Hoffpauir has been a good LH bat off the bench for a team that has precious little LH pop, but …
Blanco can play SS, making him the only guy who can back Theriot up, so Blanco stays and Hoffpauir goes.
As for Fuld, the only way he stays after Johnson’s return is if Soriano has an extended stay on the DL and the Cubs like Fuld’s leadoff skills better than Hoffpauir’s pop. I don’t see thjem dumping Fukudome anytime soon, so Fuld has no spot.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 4, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there a trade imminent?
Hoff may have some value…….especially in the AL. Marshall could be in line to be replaced by Fossum? Miles?? DFA!!!!!!! Patton could and should go
by plenz on Jul 4, 2009 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Value?
Hoffpauir is a 29 year old minor league journeyman type with limited ability to play the field. His trade “value” is about the equivalent of a box of baseballs and a Gatorade cooler to be named later.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey that Gatorade Cooler...
has a pretty high “Q” rating! We can get a decent prospect back in return I bet!
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jul 4, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WGN TV reporting Cubs considering going with 11 man pitching staff
Blanco and Baker do not have options remaining.
Fuld, Fox, and Fontenot have options. Now this is not idle speculation
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 4, 2009 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting re: Blanco being w/o options.
Here’s some idle speculation, watching Harden’s poor pitching – we could see Harden DL’d, Marshall moved to the rotation, and an 11 man staff, allowing the Cubs to move down only one of Fuld/Hoff.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 4, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if that's the case
it’s gotta be the Hoff.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they do go with an 11-man staff...
… maybe Patton will finally vanish.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 4, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it.
I think we’d see Shark and Hart both go down.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it depends on the schedule,
but with all the makeup games they have, I don’t see them going with a 4 man rotation very long.
And if they do, who is the odd man out? Wells is low man on the totem pole experience wise, but how do you justify taking him out of the rotation?
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 5, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a long, strange trip for Micah.
From Erin Andrews to errant swings. Fox and Baker can both backup 1B, so his defense is immaterial at this point. Yeah, he’s a left-handed bat, but I think that ship has sailed at this point. I’d send Fuld and Hoffpauir back down, unless a DL stint intercedes. Then Fuld should absolutely stick around.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 4, 2009 2:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
PS Nice job on this Fanpost, DGU
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 4, 2009 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
the best thing Lou can do with the bench is put Soriano on it.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It would seem to me...
that with no stretch exceeding 4 days without a break, and then the all star break for the next few weeks that it would make sense to go with a four man rotation and drop the pen down to 11. My two cents.
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jul 4, 2009 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Good point.
Rec’d
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 4, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However...
… there is the split doubleheader on Sunday. Still, good point about an 11 man staff, but you still need a 5-man rotation.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 5, 2009 4:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
If the intend is to give a Pitcher 5 days in-between starts and the schedule gives a day off every four days and least we forget the 5 day break for the all star, it could be done over a short period.
I believe the Dodgers are doing that currently, with Milton coming out of the pen for the most part with an occasional spot start.
I believe that it could be done, but I don’t think Lou or Hendry will even think about it. I think Lou would be happy with 13 pitchers, that way he can have two guys that are there just in case the Earth spins off it’s axis and they might get to throw one inning every 30 days.
The sun will shine in '69
by gaclaudy on Jul 5, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
Related FanShots on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
