Manny and Papi test positive for PED's in '03

This shouldn't shock anyone. In case anyone bought Manny's story before, this should put an end to any doubt he knew what he was doing. Sad that such a gifted hitter is tainted.

Papi doesn't surprise me. He came out of "nowhere."

Ladies and gentleman, this is my generation of baseball greats.

3 months ago cubswynn 30 comments 1 recs |

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And any Red Sox fan

wouldn’t trade 2004 for anything

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jul 30, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yawn

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark

by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Jul 30, 2009 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Haha

This site is fast! I was going to post it, but I kept refreshing because I knew there was a good chance that someone was going to post it right away.

It’s very interesting for Ortiz, because that was basically the year he became “Big Papi” and became and elite hitter. It’s not surprising in the least. Just goes to show that big jumpes in OPS out of nowhere are probably not natural most of the time. Ortiz was very consistent in his output prior to 2003 and his jump in production was really “surprising”.

IMO, this is another example, that while stats can never guarantee that some players are juiced, in a lot of cases they do raise suspicion in the right direction.

by Luis on Jul 30, 2009 11:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hogwash

We have no idea what year Ortiz started using steroids. It’s possible he used them since age 16.

Taking one data point (one positive test in 2003) tells us nothing about the direct effect of steroids on statistics.

by Wreckard on Jul 30, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about this

A lot of people were suspicious of Ortiz’s numbers, for many years now.

David Ortiz tested positive in 2003.

Statistics say A LOT.

He may have been using since 16, but it’s clear he finally found the very good stuff in 2003. Ha!

by Luis on Jul 30, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chinese Water Torture

End the slow leak of names and get them all out there.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jul 30, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Papi is the same guy who came out earlier in the year to blast the steroid abusers

Shades of Raffy Palmiero waggy his finger at Congress.

Pathetic. Thank you Bud Selig for your continuing fine “leadership” of major league baseball.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Jul 30, 2009 12:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No shocker here

Are we supposed to act surprised?

by TuscaniLove on Jul 30, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nope, just figured people would want to know.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jul 30, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Comes back to bite Papi

While I gave the man the benefit of the doubt, it’s really not worth giving anyone the benefit of the doubt anymore. Just release the entire list already.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jul 30, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hell Ya

Give out the entire list instead of slowly peeling off the band-aid. Whoever is leaking the names is enjoying the power they have over the game waaaay too much.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 30, 2009 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is...

funny.

This season IS over. -BLou 6/30/09

by Kansas25 on Jul 30, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he should take his own advice...

…and take a year off.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jul 30, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Piazza will be the next name leaked

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Jul 30, 2009 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe not the next, but

Piazza is one of those who you can be 99.9% sure was on steroids.

by Luis on Jul 30, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think most fans that have stuck around despite the steroid era...

…have accepted that this was a particularly dirty period in the game’s history. While PED use will never reach the corruption from the times when game fixing was common, it has still cast a cloud over the last couple of decades. One thing we know for sure is that unscrupulous athletes willing to do anything to reach the next level will find new ways to stay ahead of testing and that’s in any sport. Manny Ramirez, who tested positive in 2003, got caught with a masking agent earlier this season. If not for that, the twin revelation of Ramirez and Ortiz would probably be more shocking than it is.

Unlike with the NFL, which represents America’s favorite sport, PED use is looked at a lot less favorably in MLB than it is in the NFL. It’s an important double standard to realize. Deuce McAllister gets flagged for a masking agent? It’s a footnote. Manny Ramirez gets flagged for a masking agent? The media loses its mind and I can’t say it’s fair. Couple that with the slow trickle of names that comes out just to keep this story in the news. I can’t say that I’m entirely impressed by Ortiz given his self-righteousness on the issue. At this point, I don’t think people would be surprised if Albert Pujols is on that list. I’m not going to say he is, but I would not be surprised. Being self-righteous does not mean you’re clean.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jul 30, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nobody really cares about steroids

Players make more money, owners make more money, more fans follow the game. That is reality.

What I think will happen is that the steroid program will become obsolete pretty quickly and the players will use newer stuff that’s almost impossible to detect under the currect program.

Steroids are a money making machine, and they evolve very rapidly. MLB testing program, on the other hand, is collectively bargained once in a long while, and even right now is out of date (not even blood testing). If nothing changes, and there is no indication that change will come, there will be a new steroid era. You can count on it.

by Luis on Jul 30, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is really where the Federal government could step in if it got out of control again

Major League Baseball has an anti-trust exemption, but that could be threatened. They’ve essentially fostered a system that permits illegal drugs and other drugs of questionable legality to thrive in this culture. In this case, the drugs are performance enhancing drugs. It shouldn’t have to come to this, but the union holds far too much power in this case.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jul 30, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

The only hope for baseball in this matter is that testing is taken out of the players and owners hands. It has to be done completely from outside, and I don’t mean the procedure of taking and testing the samples. The frequency, types of testing, etc., has to be decided from outside. This is a perfect example of conflict of interest… if everyone is making money from it, why in the world would they change it? Canseco said as much in Congress, and he was exactly right. People who talk about te steroid era in past tense are just playing in the grand scheme being played by MLB and the Players Association.

by Luis on Jul 30, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

anti-trust exemption true

but what about the fact Steroids carry a higher classification than cocaine or heroine? Steroids are a Felony Class B Narcotic

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jul 30, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm voting the other way

Make PED legal and let the players determine if they wnat to use them or not. They are big boys and can make the decision themselves.

by Chodes on Jul 30, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

make all drugs legal

I want to see a speedster on PCP rounding third preparing to crash into a steroid geeked out catcher

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jul 30, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And give all pitchers hits of Acid

ala Dock Ellis

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Jul 30, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's funny is...

…people thought I was crazy for assuming Papi was on the juice. “He’s just naturally big” I kept hearing from people. Yeah, I knew it. He always came off as the type who would’ve used, and I never bought into his “holier than thou” stance against users, either.

by ZachenFoot on Jul 30, 2009 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs