Are the Cubs being screwed by the ownership "situation"?

by lsutgrcub on Jul 31, 2009 10:43 AM CDT

Maybe this doesn't qualify for a fanpost, or maybe it's been beaten to death so much that no one wants to talk about it anymore. My apologies if this is the case, and feel free to delete, but...

I guess this is mainly the anxious deadline day fan in me speaking, but is it not a bit disappointing (unless there are some seriously well hidden discussions going on that we're in the dark on) that the Cubs aren't even in the discussion for Halladay? Decent chance this Cubs team is going to win the division and meet up with the Phillies in a 5 game series. I think the Cubs proved last week they can give Philly a battle. Why would we not take a shot at a true ace that could possibly make the difference between 1st round exit and a WS ring? Money? Please. What kind of cash does a playoff run make for the Cubs?

I say offer 3 of Wells, Shark, Marshall, Fox, and Vitters plus a lower prospect or guy we don't mind giving up on the big club. #1s that stay healthy and eat innings like some kind of ravenous cookie monster don't grow on trees. This isn't Juan Pierre we are talking about, it's Roy F'n Halliday. Halliday being able to pitch 2 games in a 5 game series, plus slotting everyone else down a spot in the rotation....I wonder how the rest of the NL would feel about that with our offense heating up.

Maybe the Jays would want more, I don't know. Obviously, there's a limit to what you can give. I say the Cubs find out if they can make a deal that works for both sides. I'm tired of watching promising young prospects fade and playoff series go terribly wrong. Let's make a run. If the asking price is too high...ok, but if this is a payroll issue, I'm disappointed. It's Roy Halliday, and it's been 101 years. Take up a damn paypal collection, I got $100 on it, lol.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Seriously?

Get on somewhere with Roy Halladay. Not coming to Chicago. The cubs aren’t in discussion, because they don’t have the farm system that can obtain a Roy Halladay. They’re not going to trade the best pitcher in baseball (IMO) for a few, best case scenario, #4 pitchers.

Are the cubs being screwed? Come on now. You have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, they should play like it.

by jxmetal1 on Jul 31, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions

to a point

i think yes. but in the last two years the cubs were in 1st place in the division at the end of the season. so the cubs have been able to work within it.

our pitching has not been our problem all season. maybe our bullpen, but they seem (not heilman) to be coming together. I see halladay as a non issue.

It's not about money. It's about winning and getting over the hump. We've had the appetizer now, but we left the main course on the table.
-rod beck

by laidbackliam on Jul 31, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions

Pitching was a problem in the postseason though

I realize hitting was more of a problem, well except game one.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions

scoring all of 12 runs in the 6 postseason games the last two years

is the real problem

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 1, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions

+12

I think its a hard balance and difficult to figure out how to get to the postseason and have hitters that will perform once there. Lou obviously has attributed it to a lack of LH but I think that’s proving to be overrated. My opinion is (and I’m sure Lou will never care or should he at all) that they needed perhaps a little better balance of LH and to execute in both reg. season and the playoffs. I don’t think going full out with one approach will get you what you are looking for.

by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 1, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions

No.

We’re getting screwed because we have a $135 mil payroll, and aren’t playing like it. But, it could be worse… we could be the Mets.

1. New York Yankees $201,449,289
2. New York Mets $135,773,988
3. Chicago Cubs $135,050,000
4. Boston Red Sox $122,696,000
5. Detroit Tigers $115,085,145
6. Los Angeles Angels $113,709,000
7. Philadelphia Phillies $113,004,048
8. Houston Astros $102,996,415
9. Los Angeles Dodgers $100,458,101
10. Seattle Mariners $98,904,167

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jul 31, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions

Well we're playing like it now.

Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.

by Cub Style on Jul 31, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions

not really.

Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball

by lexmarklover on Jul 31, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions

since the all star break

we are first in runs and 2nd in both slugging and obp in the nl. I’d say we are starting to play like it now.

by cufban2522 on Jul 31, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions

FIRE VDN

by gocubs526 on Jul 31, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Yawn.

Just because Roy Halladay may be available doesn’t mean the Cubs need to go after him. In case you haven’t noticed, starting pitching has been a Cub strength this year.

This isn’t fantasy baseball where you can trade four lesser players for Halladay. It’s real life. We are not being “screwed” by anything.

Move on, nothing to see here.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 31, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs

You have a point...

and I made a long post the other day outlining what I thought we should do, which included not touching the starting rotation that has been solid all year.

However, when the best pitcher in baseball is available, at a good value salary wise, I think you see what the asking price is. Are you saying the Jays would not listen to a deal that included Wells, Fox, and Vitters plus a prospect? Obviously they aren’t looking for a player as accomplished as Halliday, it hardly exists. What do you think the asking price would be?

Haven’t you been critical of Z in the past? You think we’re in good shape for an October run with him as the #1? We may be, I hope so. It’s a deep rotation, but the recent breakdowns in the playoffs makes a true #1 enticing no?

by lsutgrcub on Jul 31, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Why would you give all those guys up?

All of them — save Vitters — have been key contributors to the Cubs this year. The Cubs are in first place and playing well.

They don’t need Halladay.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 31, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

i agree and disagree

yes, starting pitching has been a strength, and no, obviously there’s no way the cubs are trading for halladay for a number of reasons. BUT………that’s not to say that in a perfect world he wouldn’t be a great addition. while our starting pitching has been solid overall, we don’t have a guy who’s shown the capability of carrying the team through the playoffs (the way wood did in the first 2003 series) by dominating and making it so our team only has to score a couple of runs against the other team’s dominant pitcher (and we’ll be facing the likes of kershaw, billingsley or hamels and lee). halladay would be a GREAT addition to this team and one that would increase our chances of both getting to and advancing through the playoffs. but we’re not getting him – the package the original poster listed is laughable compared to what the jays have been asking for and we can’t take on that kind of money right now. but let’s not pretend like we wouldn’t want to if we could………………

by John T. Unger on Jul 31, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions

Will Roy start every game?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Lilly would

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Jul 31, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Halladay would be a great addition to any team....

that’s undisputable . it’s just not worth sending our future away for him.

by cufban2522 on Jul 31, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions

Is it laughable?

What did they already ask for? I think 3 of those 5 would be a pretty decent return. Wells is a ROY contender, Fox has been mashing the ball and is apparently a hot commodity among AL teams, and Vitters is the best prospect in the organization. I’d see if that was close to enough.

Anyway, this is all in good fun as it is clear that Halliday is not on our radar screen.

by lsutgrcub on Jul 31, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions

Well you're pretty confident...

after a nice 2 week run, and I hope you’re right. Things are indeed looking up.

Of course those guys have been key contributors, you said yourself that the Jays aren’t going to give up Halliday for nothing. Fox is suited for the AL and won’t have a starting role for the Cubs any time soon, and Wells has been a shocking surprise that may or may not continue to be this successful. Are you suggesting the Cubs would be stupid to trade those 2 guys and the top prospect for Roy Halliday? I’d have to strongly disagree there.

Of course the Cubs don’t NEED Halliday. Are the Cubs better with Halliday? I believe the obvious answer is yes.

by lsutgrcub on Jul 31, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree with you

cause the Cubs should be all in this year. There’s really no reason not to go for it all.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Jul 31, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Starting pitching is a strength of this year's Cubs team

There is always room for improvement, but as Al posted while I was typing, why give up all that?

If there is any spot that really needs shoring up, it’s second base. Not starting pitching. Halladay is a luxury that the team doesn’t need, and can’t afford in terms of prospects.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions

Also

The post season failures were due to the hitters being AWOL, not the starters.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions

You're right about the bats...

but go back and look at the games. There were plenty of breakdowns in the starting rotation over the last 2 years.

by lsutgrcub on Jul 31, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions

Lilly's pitch that preceded the glove toss and Dempster's walks

That’s all I can remember from the pitching standpoint. The offense was offensive.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, I would be worried about who they would have to give up like anyone

And while price may be part of the reason why we weren’t in rumors with the current management situation, I think anytime a top pitcher is available you should look at him and seriously consider it. Yes our pitching carried this team for a long time, but they keep getting injured and you just don’t know if they will be healthy come playoff time….not to mention how Halladay makes your team better for this year and next regardless. Much as I like Wells, it would be nice to use him as relief or a spot starter in the playoffs, same goes for Demp this year if you replace him with Holladay instead. You start Halladay, then Lilly, Z, the series can be over before you even worry about pitching a fourth starter.

by Sandberg's evil twin on Jul 31, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions

The Pittsburgh Pirates

perfect example of a team that truly is screwed by their “ownership situation”

by daeviant on Jul 31, 2009 11:04 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Sam Zell didn't make Hendry give Miles $4,900,000

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions

i dont get the Roy Hallday man love

let it go .. the Cubs got the horses to win the race now ..

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Jul 31, 2009 11:13 AM CDT reply actions

it's how they run it that makes the difference

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Jul 31, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think we were screwed with this trade deadline

The reason being is that any real strong pieces that would have fit well with our team wasn’t available. Personally I don’t think a starting pitcher is necessary and the Cubs got the reliever they apparently wanted.

Now had a 2B upgrade been available (I don’t mean Sanchez) then this might be a different story.

I just think it was in the teams best interest in giving away pieces that have helped them this year to get a rent-a-player.

Now had the team struggled to this point and been 10 games out, I would have not been at all surprised to see the likes of Harden, maybe Lilly, DLee (if he agreed) traded to free up payroll for new ownership. Thankfully we got better.

by ak123 on Jul 31, 2009 11:18 AM CDT reply actions

Typo

Meant to write “I just don’t think it was in the teams best interest in giving away pieces that have helped them this year to get a rent-a-player”. I wish there was an edit feature lol.

by ak123 on Jul 31, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions

Seriously?

I mean, I guess you might look at not grabbing a second baseman, and think that a little bit. But Halladay? You give up major prospects for a need, not a want. And since starting pitching isn’t a need, there’s no point in having a discussion that has you both adding salary, and depleting assets, all so you can turn around and spend $100 million more after next season.

if they want him, they can bid for his services after 2010. There should be plenty of salary coming off the books to be able to make Roy an offer.

by Damen Jackson on Jul 31, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions

Roy will be a Yankee lol

For the fact that they wanted to trade for him this year alone means they’ll win the bidding war for him in 2010 (possibly fighting Red Sox and Phillies for him).

by ak123 on Jul 31, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions

Well, I'm glad you can see into the future.

Can you offer me some predictions on the coming NFL season, Nostradamus?

by Damen Jackson on Jul 31, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions

34-7
10-6
21-18

And, in a stunning upset, 35-14!

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions

What, no names?

I need to make some coin. My Cubs habit is expensive.

by Damen Jackson on Jul 31, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions

Well, no. No weeks, either.

That way, I’ve got a better chance.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 31, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Heavens to mergatroid

Sam Zell has left Jim Hendry to his own devices for two years running and has allowed the payroll to explode up to $135 million or third highest in baseball. It is a b.s. excuse to say the ownership “situation” has handcuffed the Cub front office from improving the ballclub.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Jul 31, 2009 11:35 AM CDT reply actions

I'm not complaining...

about the payroll number, nor am I defending foolish expenditures such as Aaron Miles. All I’m saying is that the Cubs should take a shot at the best pitcher in baseball if he’s available.

by lsutgrcub on Jul 31, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions

2 year, 2 NL Central Titles.

I love the go for broke attitude. Has Hendry made some bad signings, sure. Has he made some good ones, of course. You seem to ONLY remember the bad ones.

We have a lot of room for improvement (see our post season record), but I’d rather be a team that tries to win now over a team that is constantly building towards the future. The BoSox have found a nice middle ground and it’s no secret we’re trying to copy that.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jul 31, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Holy Bursting Budgets

Batman.

This is one of the wisest things you have posted.

by socalbob on Jul 31, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions

You'd think...

if I wanted the guy so bad, I could spell his name correctly, haha.

HALLADAY

by lsutgrcub on Jul 31, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions

even if you spelled his name correctly

it was still a goofy trade suggestion.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 31, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions

hendrys an idiot

he obv doesnt know the jays will take sam fuld, bobby scales, aaron miles and heilman, and mike fontenot for roy halladay

He can throw a fastball at 87MPH and make you look like a fool. He can spray lines drives to right field. He can put up with crappy offense and take the loss. He is Randy Wells. He is the most interesting pitcher in the world. Stay healthy, my friends.

by jesus christos on Jul 31, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions

I would agree but....

starting pitching isn’t our problem. We an excellent rotation. They only thing I would like to see is maybe a middle infielder or another outfielder. If we don’t get anyone, I’d still be happy. As long as the team preforms as it should be (and it has lately) we should be in a good position.

"Cubs Win!" "Yes, Sir!" - Pat and Ron, June 12, 2008, Walk off HBP, bottom of the 11th
#8719 on the Cubs Season Ticket waiting list.

by Charlemagne on Jul 31, 2009 1:44 PM CDT reply actions

I suspect the Jays want more

which is why he isn’t a Phil. Regardless, I don’t see the ownership situation being a problem. The Cubs are spending money. Wisely is another question.

by rlpete on Jul 31, 2009 1:54 PM CDT reply actions

The trade deadline has come and gone

hopefully so will goofy trade scenarios like this one

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 31, 2009 3:30 PM CDT reply actions

Sure, I believe so

Not that the monetary increase would have allowed a Peavy deal – WHO BY THE WAY IS NOW ON HIS WAY TO THE SOUTH SIDE, THIS TIME FOR SURE – but it sure could have allowed more money so they could have perhaps got DeRo back or more recently got Teahan from KC or Scuturo from the Jays.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jul 31, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions

When Peavy actually puts on a White Sox uniform...

… which is likely to be next year… you will all see how pitching with Petco as his home park has skewed his numbers.

He’ll get hammered in the launching pad that is the Cell.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jul 31, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I'll await the results

Until then, the Sox did themselves well.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions

That's an interesting thought here. I'll be watching for that...might finally give me a reason to put up listening to Hawk.

I do think the ownership was hamstrung by the current situation whatever it truly is. Seeing what was traded for the big names, I sure hope so at least. Stone knew the pulse of the fans when he projected that trade of Bradley, I know I would like to dump a few of these huge contracts so it’s easier to make trades and sign players.

by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 1, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions

the ownership situations that screwed the cubs

were the ones in which ownership valued the nickel more than putting a winning organization together. in many of the last decades, with many different front office heads, we put together our system in a foolishly tightfisted way. we ignored developing within, as well as many foolish trades, signings, and non-signings. if new ownership comes in and ‘gets it right’, we could be treated to some fun years in the near future.

that starts with not throwing away a system that has been greatly repaired recently.

by tim815 on Jul 31, 2009 5:52 PM CDT reply actions

red sox

we have a bigger payroll than the sox???? i did not know that. and yet they make the playoffs every year. shame shame shame

by NOMAR on Aug 1, 2009 8:04 AM CDT reply actions

I didn't know that either

I’ll admit we have so far this season looked bad for taking on too many bloated contracts, Bradley’s looking horrible. That said what about the Mets? Sure makes me feel a little better watching them this season.

by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 1, 2009 3:59 PM CDT reply actions