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Center field vs. last year


I have been a lifelong fan of the Cubs for over 50 years. Last year I watched Jim Edmonds play with confidence, show leadership and get quality at bats. Nobody has even mentioned his loss to the club this year. Fukudome is better suited for right field. We need a front line top drawer 2 way center fielder NOW ! If we have to trade a starter to get one it should be done.  I know Reed platooned with Jim but what a savvy veteran he was !

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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who do you

suggest?

The defense in center is BETTER this year.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 3:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No, the defense is NOT better

Fukudome plays too deep in center and doesn’t have the range that even a 38 year old Jim Edmonds flashed. To say otherwise is not to understand baseball.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I utterly disagree.

Last year, in center field, Jim Edmonds was a -14.1 UZR, -23.3 UZR/150

This year, in center field, Kosuke Fukudome is 1.5 UZR, 1.0 UZR/150.

Of course, all you’ll say is that you don’t believe in statistics, or something.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leadership

Unless Reed is out there I do not see much confidence or leadership in this outfield Sir. A team cannot win consistently with what we have out there I’m sorry to say……….I don’t feel good saying any of this but enough is enough……..

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 4, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This year, in center field, Reed Johnson has a -0.8 UZR, -3.0 UZR/150.

Fukudome’s defense is better than either Edmonds last year or Johnson this year.

I’m not necessarily arguing leadership, although I don’t know how Johnson can be the OF leader when he plays so rarely; have him bat against Righties and you’ll see him exposed significantly.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course, all you’ll say is that you don’t believe in statistics, or something.

or just skip your comment and not reply to it…

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jul 5, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I utterly disagree.

Last year, in center field, Jim Edmonds was a -14.1 UZR, -23.3 UZR/150

This year, in center field, Kosuke Fukudome is 1.5 UZR, 1.0 UZR/150.

Of course, all you’ll say is that you don’t believe in statistics, or something.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was just as true as the first time you posted it.

:P

By the way nice retort to BLou. Its hard to come back from that with bringing someone’s mother into the conversation. :)

(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)

by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 4, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

odd.

significantly different date-stamps, too. I wonder how that happened.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm, to disagree with BLou is not understand baseball???

Then it appears that there are a LOT of posters here who, by that definition, do not understand baseball.

 Fukudome is not a great CF, he does play too deep, but he is still better defensively than Edmonds is now. Edmonds used to be a great CF, but that has not been true for a several years now.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 5, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that means 30 teams in MLB must disagree

or they all would be lined up to sign Edmonds now

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jul 5, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really

Dome plays to deep in center, Bradley and Soriano everyday and you think the defense is better this year ? Maybe Vernon Wells in center and let the rest sort itself out………..

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 4, 2009 3:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

and what do you give up for Wells?

any chance he’s even for sale?

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Might be

Blue Jays need a starter badly and they may let Wells go………..would really help us….

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 4, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vernon Wells is having a terrible year and has a huge contract.

I wouldn’t take him unless they took Soriano in return.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jul 4, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)

by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 4, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fukudome at this point is better suited to the bench.

Never mind the defense, he just can’t hit.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jul 4, 2009 3:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kosuke is So Taguchi with modestly better extra base "pop"

Kosuke Fukudome is the type of player who should be signed to a one year $2 to $3 million type contract and be counted upon as a 4th or 5th outfielder type. Just like the major league career pattern of So Taguchi in the past few years.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha

I love that you keep making this comparison. Those two players have one thing in common and that you keep latching onto that one thing tells me so much about you.

by Wreckard on Jul 6, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson combined for close to 30 HRs, 100 RBIs and solid defense in center

But that wasn’t good enough apparently. Nope, Donut Jim Hendry had to go out and piss away even more money on another awful free agent outfielder signing. The right move was to bring back Edmonds. For the type of fair one year contract he would have commanded it would have mitigated any fear of him turning into Gary Gaetti.

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 4:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

look up, and see the URZ pls BLou

and then you can retract your incorrect statement

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jul 5, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wells is our type of ball player......

He would fit right in with the Cubs’ outfield situation——big underachiever at the plate and a contract only he can appreciate. I will agree that he is a great fielder.

We could have kept Edmonds if Kosuke would have hit last year. Going out and getting Milton to replace Kosuke, then Kosuke had to play center because he had a big contract…….geez, the snowball of bad decisions keeps rolling…….

by PalatineRol on Jul 4, 2009 5:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wells.........

Still he has 8 hr’s, 39 rbi’s…..and is much more consistent everyday than Bradley, Soriano etc…….where else can we find an available above average center fielder ?

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 4, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry

Sorry. He bats right handed. Didn’t you get the memo last winter? Ha

by PalatineRol on Jul 4, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Felix Pie flopping also contributed to this clusterfu*k of a situation

$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.

by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Joeeeeey

So we trade Pie. Then we have to go out and get Gathright to replace him. Hendry didn’t realize that Lou didn’t want Felix OR Joey.

by PalatineRol on Jul 4, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually Pie is batting better than Soriano by almost ten percentage points. Just sayin'

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Jul 5, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

outfield defense isnt the problem this year

they can all catch and throw out there significantly above average, defense is not really as issue for this team.

what we cant do this year is HIT THE BALL CONSISTANTLY!

i’ve never seen so many well paid hitters batting between .225 and .275.

fukudome’s defense is every bit as good as edmonds, if not better becasue of edmonds’ age. now kouske vs edmonds at the bat theres no comparison, except that fukie is actually playing this year while edmonds is working on his tan. there’s no telling how 39 year old edmonds holds up to a full season, needless to say, im skeptical that he would even make it through the entire season physically.

 the glaring bovious flaw of this team is getting the big hit when you need it. hopefully getting ARAM back tomorrow will help everyone remember what CLUTCH is and hopefully it becomes more contagious than the swine flu.

by meancubface on Jul 5, 2009 8:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

By the way, I like your name, Ken Hubbs.

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Jul 5, 2009 9:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hubbs

Thanks zevkalman………..I was 16 years old when he was tragically killed. I really looked up to him in those days…………

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 5, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody has even mentioned his loss to the club this year

Do you read here much? Al alone, has mentioned it many times, not to mantion other BCBers who have called for him to be signed.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Jul 5, 2009 9:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Strength in Center

I never said I wanted the Cubs to resign Jim this year. My point was we need a leader out there who is a decent hitter and a great fielder. I was asked to suggest somebody. There aren’t too many available. This is why I mentioned V. Wells. Yes he has struggled but is still very talented. Kosuke should be the right fielder. The Blue Jays badly need A STARTER………..maybe this is a good time to leverage a good deal……..

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 5, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are your plans for Milton Bradley?

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 5, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why

Why do you need a “leader” in center?

by Wreckard on Jul 6, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Take charge

Bradley would be platooned. I have seen him come over after Dome has called for the ball and just ignore him. He would only do that to a guy like Wells once. Soriano and Bradley are barely competent defensively. If there is a guy in center they wouldn’t mess with then we would see a lot better teamwork out there………

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 6, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, disagree.

When healthy, Milton Bradley is a good defensive outfielder. Yeah, he’s made some spectacular mistakes, but those are misleading. He takes good routes to balls and hits the cutoff man consistently.

As far as his bat goes, it’s far too early to platoon him. Milton Bradley has enormous – enormous – offensive potential. If he can just get his bat going from the left side, he’ll be fine.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 6, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that there was any doubt that you have no idea what you're talking about but
Bradley [is] barely competent defensively.

This is the dumbest wrongest thing I’ve read today. And I’ve spent a lot of time here today.

OF defense hasn’t actually been a problem for us this season just FYI. Fukudome and Bradley have been above average, Johnson average, and Soriano slightly below average. The biggest thing to improve our defense isn’t to get some cool dude who’s going to, like, totally have a talk with Bradley about calling him off balls – it’s to get Soriano healthy so his defense returns to its normal above average state.

by Wreckard on Jul 6, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the dumbest wrongest thing I’ve read today.

That’s why he was a DH in Texas……..take off the rose colored glasses……..he’s not much of a team player. Many out there will agree with me on this. You move on ……….

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 6, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your awareness of history is as broken as your opinions

Bradley was a DH in Texas because he was coming back from an injury. An injury, mind you, that doctors predicted would cause him to miss the entire 2008 season. But he selfishly worked his ass off to come back from it and ended up playing almost the entire year.

he’s not much of a team player.

What does that have to do with his defense? Just because you don’t like someone doesn’t mean they’re not good at defense.

by Wreckard on Jul 6, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley ?

I never said I didn’t like him. I just see things different than you. Losing fly balls in the sun, not knowing how many are out, always getting hurt and hitting 2 run homers when we are down 7-0………not a lot to cheer about yet……….I really hope he shows us a lot more through the dog days but hey we are only 2 back so let’s relax fo now……..

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 6, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just see things different than you.

Yes – incoherently, and with too many periods.

by Wreckard on Jul 6, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wreckard

I see you have only made 7 posts in over a year . At the same tine you have made over 2000 comments about other blogs. I get it. You like to get personal with sarcastic remarks but hide in the weeds while doing it . Take some initiative a post something intelligent . I think you really are a coward.

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 6, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see you have only made 7 posts in over a year . At the same tine you have made over 2000 comments about other blogs.

Ok, I had to read this a dozen times before it made any sense what you were saying. You’re saying that I obviously don’t produce insightful commentary because I’m not making Fanposts of my own, only commenting in the Fanposts of others or something. Gotcha.

Take some initiative a post something intelligent .

While I certainly can’t compete with the gold standard of posting that you’ve set in the 2 days since you’ve joined, I do put quite a bit of thought and work into most of my non-snarky posts.

Look, kid, I’m going to be brutally honest here: the effort is there but the content isn’t. The biggest problem with BCB is the glut of poorly thought out Fanposts. I honestly clicked on this diary expecting some kind of analysis – maybe a statistical comparison between the aggregate production of Edmunds / Johnson last year vs. the production of Fukudome / Johnson this year. Instead it’s just a bunch of hand-wringing and nonsense. I have yet to see you support a single thing you’ve said with anything resembling a fact.

by Wreckard on Jul 6, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

there was statistical comparisons. Of course, it was me who made them. :P

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

someone needs a timeout

Believe it or not Hubbs, you asre not the only one who watches Cubs games, and in an even more shocking (for you) development, just because you believe something (like Bradley is an incompetent RF) doesn’t make it true. Get off your high horse why dontcha.

Finally, how brave it is to call someone a coward while safely hiding behind a computer?

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 7, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

because hitting 2 run HRs

when we’re down 7-0 is BAD?

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that one kind of made me scratch my head too.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 7, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

when we’re down 7-0 is BAD?

Yes. How many game winners/walk offs have we seen or will we see from him ? Not much clutch hitting and we are into July.

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 7, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so the guy finally starts to show some power

and you’re going to suggest that it’s bad.

Ok. One more person who Bradley simply cannot win with.

How much clutch hitting have we seen from ANYONE prior to June 25th? Give me a break.

Here’s how it goes:

1) Bradley is a good defender
2) Bradley has the potential to be a great bat.

That’s it.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not bad but not clutch

I really hope you are right man. I just want the Cubs to WIN ! (and nothing else)………..we will see a lot over the next 2 months then the stats will really count.

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 7, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"clutch" doesn't mean anything.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"clutch" doesn't mean anything.

If you really believe this you have never played the game at any decent level. Stick with your fantasy games………….

by If we only had Hubbs on Jul 7, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh god

not this again.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow.

that has to be one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever read. You played baseball. Good for you, so did many of us.

Clutch doesn’t exist. It’s been proven.

by dimarco on Jul 7, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop making sense

It is not allowed when posting about Bradley.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano and Bradley are barely competent defensively.

I’ve seen a lot of wrong things lately, but this is pretty wrong.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 6, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please. Watch the games, don't just go by your feelings. The Cubs outfield

defense has been fine. They don’t need Wells. Move on.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 6, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jim Edmonds: The Original DeRo.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 5, 2009 12:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Slim pickings

CF is certainly a spot that we could use an upgrade in talent, unless Kosuke can turn it around (Reed’s a nice “gritty” player, but playing him every day isn’t ideal). Problem is, find me a CF that

a) Is available
b) Is playing well
c) Is enough of an upgrade to justify making a move (that is, offers a better bat and offers above average defense, as we get about average defense right now, maybe a tinge better)
d) Is likely to fit within our rumored financial range

The likelihood is great that all four of those criteria will need to be satisfied to justify a move.

Look around – it’s a seller’s market. On paper, there’s a limited number of teams that should be sellers right now – San Diego/Arizona/Cleveland/Kansas City/Oakland/Baltimore are too far out to ponder a legitimate run in the West, Washington’s the worst team in the league. Not all those teams will necessarily sell to begin with (for example, Oakland could hold onto Holliday and collect two picks, Baltimore may decide that building confidence with their kids is more important as their moveable assets may not bring enough in return, and so forth. Certainly, there will be some teams that aren’t in the above list that decide to sell. Perhaps Toronto fits into that picture, Pittsburgh seems to have a specific plan in place and are willing to give up this year for the future (the right move, imo). Maybe the next few weeks shake some things out.

Certainly, the possibility exists that a more complex Nomar-like trade could emerge, but those are typically the exception for a reason. Those trades tend to emerge out of no where and surprise. So … let’s look at what’s out there from a more basic “my vet for a couple young guys” deal structure. There’s Vernon Wells/Alex Rios, but neither guy really fits our budget, and both guys haven’t exactly been setting the world afire. Oh, I also wouldn’t swap out Wells for Soriano unless I got a lot of money – Wells from 2010-2014 has yearly salaries, according to Cots of: 10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M (compare that to Soriano’s 2010-2014: 10-14:$18M annually). I’d do it for Rios, but anyhow, the reality of a big contract swap like that is slim.

What else? Kansas City can offer the struggling Crisp and DeJesus. Fun … nope. Sizemore is a no (as in no, he won’t be available). Oakland has Ryan Sweeney, who has developed much better than I thought. He has a very solid away line. That said, they don’t have much else in ways of CF talent behind Sweeney, and he’s young and cheap. The Nats and Nyjer Morgan? Maybe a brief thought. Even if the D-backs offered up Chris Young, I’m not sure I’d be interested. The Padres have a Scott Hairston, who’s hitting for more power than I ever anticipated. They aren’t going to fork over a guy like that, cheap and productive, without demanding a lot, though.

Is there a more complex trade idea that we can take stabs at? Typically, it’d come with teams with excess OF talent to try and fit a need. Minnesota? Olney suggested the other day that they may listen on a Denard Span could perhaps get the Braves interested enough in a Yunel Escobar swap. As much as he’s in the doghouse in Atlanta, we don’t have an Escobar like talent to offer. Seems unlikely. Juan Pierre and the Dodgers certainly will get brought up, but I’m not so sure they move him (they can deal chips to get pitching as their system has enough depth to make a move if they so desire – in fact, dealing chips can likely net a better return than Juan). I’m also not sure the Cubs will revisit that route (financial factors as well).

So, we have guys like Ryan Sweeney, Nyjer Morgan, and Scott Hairston that probably top the list of guys that fit all 4 of the above potential qualifications. Hairston’s a different beast from those two, offering some pop. Sweeney and Morgan are nice guys, but it makes me think that we should give Sam Fuld a long look before we ponder another CF move if we pursue that route.

Short of it, slim pickings.

by toonsterwu on Jul 5, 2009 9:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

After I typed that

I realized that the Athletics land Scott Hairston for Ryan Webb, Craig Italiano, and a PTBNL. Wow … a bit surprising. Guess Beane’s hoping for a last surge in a weak division before pondering selling. Doesn’t seem like much to give up in this market, depending on the PTBNL. Webb/Italiano are eh to me.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20090705&content_id=5719772&vkey=pr_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

by toonsterwu on Jul 5, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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