Done Being Patient With Soriano
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 3:53 PM CDT
135 comments
I am fully aware that Alfonso Soriano is an important part of this team, specifially the offense. Why he is penciled into the lineup every day, though, is beyond my understanding. Let's take a look at some numbers, and perhaps you will see why this slump doesn't appear to be going away anytime soon.
Since May 17th, he has hit 2 HR's, and his batting average has dropped from .280 to .226. 42 games is quite a long "slump", especially when there are other competent players sitting on the bench. All this being said, I do want Soriano as my everyday left fielder, so here's what I'd do:
Put Soriano on the DL effective Monday, when Reed, Aramis, and Guzman are all scheduled to be activated. That would allow the club the ability to option 1 less position player. Send him down to extended Spring Training (or anywhere, really) where he can work on his swing next week and then he'd obviously have the all star break off as well. Once those 15 days are up (only 10 games by my calcuations, though feel free to double check that) we should have a better idea of who the other casualty will be, and Soriano could once again man left field, hopefully refreshed and rejuvenated.
In the meantime, I'd like to see this lineup:
Fuld
Theriot
Lee
Fox
Bradley
Fukudome
Soto
Fontenot
Pitcher
As always, I'd love to hear your thoughts. But I feel very strongly about not wanting to see Soriano in the lineup tomorrow. At this point, he's a liability both at the plate and in the field. Let's hope he gets straightened out really soon!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
0 recs |
135 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Put Bradley ahead of Fox.
At least he’s got a shot at being on base ahead of power hitters with all those walks.
Otherwise, I’m right there with you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 4, 2009 4:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Soriano's situation is odd.
I’ve been expecting him to be DL’d this Monday for a while. I think I read that idea first from Zambranofan, but I can’t remember. Anyway, today they were talking on the WGN telecast like Lou expected to see Soriano batting 6th for a while. So, if Sori stays, when Ramirez comes back, I’ll be scratching my head.
I really have a hard time believing he suddenly fell off as he has if he isn’t injured in an important way and trying to keep his bat in the lineup till Ramirez returns. It’s amazing, really.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 4, 2009 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your post yesterday really got me thinking about what Monday will bring
I’d just really hate to see Sori in the lineup day in and day out, honestly doing nothing to help the ballclub, while we option 2 guys who maybe don’t deserve the demotion.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One would have to think
he’s either injured or no longer taking something that used to help his performance (not trying to stir up toruble, I just see those as the two possible options). I don’t know that him pressing is the reason, as even when the rest of the team is rolling (like yesterday) he still looks lost.
I think an injury his more likely, but the fact that he hasn’t been DL’d after this long a slump makes me wonder. Once Ramirez returns, they’ll have plenty of options—Fuld, Fox, Baker, etc.
Soriano has been so bad they’d be better off having Baker hit against righties and Fuld hit against lefties.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano has been so bad they'd be better off with Rich Harden in left field.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 4, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, you sit in left field, right?
Are the fans really giving it to him during this slump? And if so, how is he reacting?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, I haven't heard much, although I don't sit that close.
I’ll check with some of those who do sit closer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 4, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano...........
……….is being peppered quite frequently by the fans in LF. Most of it deserving, save the idiot who just blathers something stupid.
Fonzie seems immune. Seriously, he doesn’t seem to be affected by the slams.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Jul 4, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the info.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 5, 2009 4:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always see him turning aorund
I always figured he was just joking with the fans.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 5, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
harden is pretty fast
wells4roty
by jesus christos on Jul 4, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's really odd.
I can understand the Cubs thinking that Soriano at 80% and no Aramis is better than door number 3, but if he doesn’t go on the DL with Aramis’ return then it would appear to be mental/physical adjustments. Maybe he has put too much pressure to take up the slack for Aramis and isn’t adjusting to the pitchers’ adjustments? Lee had a pretty poor showing last season after April or May, enough to make me think he was more likely in decline. It’s possible that Soriano is going through something similar, and Soriano seems to be in good if not excellent physical shape, which to me would help mitigate concerns about decline at 30+.
It’d be great if goes on a hot streak when Aramis returns.
by DudeVf11 on Jul 5, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll probably be at the all-star game
wont he?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jul 4, 2009 4:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how the voting looks
but if I’m the Cubs, I don’t want him at the all star game at all.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
If somehow he gets in over Beltran, the only way to stop him from going would be to put him on the DL.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 4, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know off hand if he has any ASG incentives in his contract?
because if he does, I don’t think the union would even allow that…
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does he have to
play, or just be chosen? If he just needs to be chosen maybe they won’t care.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, just looked it up
looks like he’s awarded $250,000 is he’s the top vote getter, so that’s a non issue. Looks like he also gets 6 premium tickets to the game itself if he’s selected, so luckily both are non issues for a possible DL stint.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well it wont matter what they want, unless he's DL'd
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jul 4, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the most pathetic thing of all...
that guy is getting votes…simply because of what he HAS done int he past. Suse sucks this year so far and there are several Cubs more deserving (not that any truly deserve it) to be in St Louis.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 5, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what happens when fans vote...
Just like the NBA, you get guys like Shaq and Vince Carter making All-Star teams because of their name and track record. The All-Star game is a fan popularity contest.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jul 5, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Soriano
will get elected to the ASG, insist of being in the home run derby, and doing all that swinging for the fences will do the opposite of what it usually does to hitters.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 4:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Soriano is the Andruw Jones dilemma repeated
Soriano? He’s forever been a hack. Now he’s into his 30’s and continues to swing a telephone pole for a bat. Bottom line Soriano needs to make concession to age and along with that fundamental change in his hitting approach. He can’t still sit on top the plate and try to guess fastball.
The extraordinarily sobering thing is that Soriano is under contract for 5 1/2 more seasons. Many cringed when he was signed in 2007 to THAT contract. And for very, very good reason.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
...and YES, it is reasonable to bring up the steroid thing with Soriano
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
Are you suggesting that suddenly he stopped using them in mid-May and his performance immediately stopped being good?
Because up to then he was hitting fine.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 4, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also reasonable to say this refrain is indicative of a one-trick pony
Because that’s all you bring up when someone is struggling.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 4, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Struggling????
Really. Struggling is the answer you have??? Unless Soriano makes fundamental accomodation in his hitting approach there will be more of the same. Soriano can no longer get away with sitting in the box and guessing dead red. When he misses pitches, he misses them by a mile.
It’s Andruw Jones all over again. Jones dropped off the face of the cliff in 2007. Then he started to cheat up on the plate and that didn’t work either. Making a career out of guessing fastball catches up to guys.
If you are a hack? If you have made a career of identifying the fastball? If you swing a telephone pole for a bat? If you hit your mid-30’s? WHY O’ WHY is it unfathomable to understand why Soriano is struggling?
And yes, the steroid thing is very valid to bring up. Chances are better than not too that Soriano is one of the 103 names on that infamous list.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Repetitive and vindictive is what I have
Honestly, come up with something different.
ROIDS! ROIDS! ROIDS!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 4, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
riddikulus!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well is your man crush Harden on them too ?
He has sucked almost all year. It was one thing when he was injured every other week but now he is just terrible so EITHER he is
smoking pot or stopped taking roids or maybe it was Meth or it could just be that he has picked the wrong season to stop sniffing glue.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 4, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you were all for the Soriano signing a few years ago.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jul 4, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not me
Go back and review your history lesson.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bs. you wanted hendry to make a big signing.
must be nice to have it both ways.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jul 4, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's hurt...
Then he needs to go on the DL. But if he’s not, and with Aramis and RJ coming back Monday, just leave him in the 6th spot to figure it out. I refuse to believe that he won’t come out of this, especially if he’s not injured.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jul 4, 2009 4:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you.
You don’t give up on a guy with the record he has over the last several seasons because of a bad half, unless he’s hurt (which would explain a lot). He will hit if he’s healthy.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jul 4, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how long should he be given to "figure it out", though?
we’re in a pennant race here, and we need to put our best 9 out there. This has been going on almost 3 months now…
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so another 2 full months? while in a pennant race?
you do realize at this pace he will be down to about .175 by then, right?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and yes.
I realize it sounds excessive, if he actually performs that badly for that long. But, if he’s not hurt, given his past, something would have to be really, really wrong that wasn’t for each of the last 7+ years. I can’t for the life of me think of what that is. Unfortunately, his contract comes into it too. With what we have invested in him for the enxt 5 1/2 years, I want to know without any shred of doubt that Soriano has no potential left as a Cub – and that means waiting much longer than 3 months. Also, I don’t want a pennant – I want post-season wins – and we need Soriano’s bat (if there’s anything left in it) to be avaialble for that. I’ll admit that I haven’t given up on Soriano – not for another couple of months – August 31st.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jul 4, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least you didn't say
Soriano’s death is the best way out of his contract like someone said in the game thread today. Classy huh?
I have the feeling Lou is beside himself trying to figure out how to help or figure out what to do with him. It has to be driving Soriano crazy too. I hope he get it figured out and soon.
by sue369 on Jul 4, 2009 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
exactly why I don't go into the game threads, anymore
but yes, I’m sure it’s bothering Soriano as well. We all want to see him succeed, I just think that putting him on the DL and sending him out for some work will give him a better chance of being the Alfonso Soriano that can carry the team for weeks at a time.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went in the last game thread for a while yesterday
I lurked in the others. A bunch of people swearing and arguing . . . people having fits if someone said something they didn’t agree with . . . arguments going on so long that it was impossible to follow game action.
Yeah, they can be damn ugly.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 4, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I stayed completely OUT of the GTs today...
…figuring it would be like “Lord of the Flies” in there…
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jul 4, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
That is probably the best description of a Game Thread gone wrong I’ve ever read.
by CaliCub on Jul 4, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just credit me when you use it ;)
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jul 5, 2009 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need him to figure it out
I like Sam Fuld just fine, and he’s made some great plays, but we’re NOT getting into the playoffs on his bat. We need Soriano to figure things out. If that means the DL, then ok, but I don’t think it does. I think it means he needs to play through.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's exactly it, Drew
and we are not getting into the playoffs on Soriano’s bat if he continues to struggle, either. I think he’s had enough time in the lineup to “figure it out”, now it’s time to DL him and send him for some work with batting coaches, simulated games, etc.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I don't understand
why people think that will make such a difference when working with batting coaches hasn’t made a difference so far. He sat for two days. he’s spending tons of time in the cage.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don't know that it will.
I just know that whatever he has been doing isn’t working, and I can’t justify the argument of leaving him in the lineup to “figure it out”. This has been a VERY prolonged slump.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 4, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don't spend
very much time in the cage during the season. They hit every day, but not with very much instruction and not for very long. It’s like warm-up hitting rather than diagnostic work.
Whatever Soriano needs, he’s not getting it right now. I don’t know if the DL would help, but it couldn’t make him any worse than he is now, and he is severely hurting the team by playing right now.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was under the impression
that Soriano and Bradley are spending lots of extra time in the cage. Bradley has talked about getting a crick in his neck.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The infamous BCB excuse makers are flocking to the defense of Soriano !!!
Now the silver bullet answer to why he SUCKS is that he is surely hurt !!!! Unbelievable.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's a silver bullet answer.
It’s a suggested possibility. Nobody has any idea why he is suddenly a shadow of his former self at the plate. I personally have no use for him right now, but clearly history shows he can be an offensive force. We’re all just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks because we really can’t explain it. If you think you can, then I would email the Cubs immediately.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
by Goodie1969 on Jul 4, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure the restraining order
includes emails.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 4, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this had been a gradual thing
then “decline” would be an appropriate guess, but this came on quickly and extremely. This isn’t a decline, it’s a jump off a cliff. So, to convince me a deterioration of skills is at play, you’d need to show me why Soriano would be different than other players. Citing Andruw Jones doesn’t help; Andruw got fat. Sori’s not fat.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 4, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So your recomendation Is?
You dog the crap out of him, what is your suggestion to be done.
We both know he is not going anywhere, so sit him?
I personally would sit him until after the AS break, thats me. Curious what you would do besides calling him every name printable.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jul 4, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's one
I’ve been harping on it for awhile now. Challenge him. Appeal to his pride. Make him show he’s the team leader he claims. Sit him on the bench and make him watch others have success until he comes into Lou’s office and vows that he will change his approach. That he will actually hustle. That he will pay attention in LF. That he will run the bases. Basically, that he will do what he’s being paid to do rather than go through the motions and insist that he’s playing hard while it’s quite obvious even to the most casual observer that he’s not.
It’s on him and only him to improve upon where he’s at. Not the hitting coach, not the manager, not his teammates…it’s on him. If he’s not willing to adjust, then let him sit there all year. I don’t buy it for one second that the club can’t win without him. In fact, the opposite of that is holding pretty true….that it’s very difficult to win with him right now.
Appeal to his pride, challenge his ego. Let him sit there until the ASB and see if something happens inside him that shows he’s done being selfish and is actually ready to help the club aside from the lip service he’s giving claiming such.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 4, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not a "pride thing"
Yeah it would be great if Soriano hustled, played good defense, etc. The fact is even if he did it would not compensate for his poor hitting, and the reverse is also true – if he was hitting well his lazy baserunning and whatnot would not be a major drag. He’s not on the team to do the little things. He’s here to hit. He has no value otherwise – he doesn’t even really steal bases anymore.
And there’s no evidence to show that he’s selfish.
by cubsforever on Jul 5, 2009 5:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except, of course
for the fact that he DOES hustle, he DOES pay attention in LF, and he DOES run the bases when he gets on.
Like we’d ever know if he went to Lou’s office and said “I will change.”
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon Drew, you know it's that innate bloggers sense of knowing exactly what is
in a players mind and why he is performing the way he is. We just know it! We don’t need facts and we certainly don’t have to do any research. We have the benefit of knowing what it will take to fix every ill that befalls a player. If only the Cubs management would consult us instead of listening to those highly paid professionals, they would be much better off. I don’t know about you, but I would rather listen to some Joe off the street instead of my own doctor when it comes to my health. I sure the average Joe knows much better than some guy who has gone to school for 15 years and has practiced just as long. I’m sure all of us would rather have some guy come in off the street and tell us how to do our jobs.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 5, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I let
Mrs. Wiberforce down the road change my brake-pads. Why pay a guy who has been trained to do it?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on Drew...........
Push yourself away from your computer and attend a few games or watch them on TV and you’ll see that he Doesn’t hustle, Doesn’t pay attention in LF, and isn’t a smart base runner (when was the last time you saw anyone get doubled off at 1st base on a routine fly to left?)
If he hustled like Fuld, played an average LF and reduced his miscues on the bases his offensive slump would be much easier to live with.
He has contributed zip to this club the past six weeks, in fact. I’d argue he’s been a HUGE liability.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 5, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
players get doubled off
all the time, sparky.
You may choose to attribute his struggles to laziness. I continue to think you’re wrong.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in park district softball leagues, maybe.........
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 5, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
in MLB.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Len and Bren
were hinting at that weeks ago. There’s no confirmation from Soriano or the team over that span of time.
There was an earlier link on BCB to an SI article that illustrated how players tend to fall off their game at 33. (David Ortiz being another contemporary example.) However, many of those players were able to adjust, and rebound — but it took a while, most likely into the next season
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 5, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An important data point here is body type.
Soriano looks to be in good physical shape. David Ortiz and Mo Vaughn are/were not.
I think we’ll know a lot more about Soriano’s health by whether or not he is DL’d when Rami comes back. If the Cubs DL Harden and Soriano, then they can send down just one of Hart, Hoff, or Fuld. If they DL just Sori, you send down Hart and Hoff. I’d play this lineup
Riot
Dome
DLee
MB
Rami
Fox
Soto
Fonty
That looks like the kind of deep lineup the Cubs ran out there last year.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 5, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point...
…but I will add; being a good hitter has much more to do with reflexes vs body type. We have all seen guys who were clearly out of shape and they were really good hitters. You can look very lean and in good physical condition and still have a subtle loss of reflexes. Nerve tissue can not be maintained the same way muscle tissue can, and when it goes, it goes.
With this said, Soriano could certainly be hitting a point were he is seeing a decline in his pure physical skills, but the decline should be slow and not dramatic in nature. I don’t know whether he is hurt, or is just in a major mental funk, but this is probably the longest cold droubt he has had in his career.
The one thing I have always disagreed with, is not putting him down in the order a long time ago. I think it was a mistake, but I guess it’s better late than never.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 6, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Soriano has been injured this whole time
and he hasn’t been put on the DL, that would be absolutely tragic because it may be the single biggest reason if the Cubs don’t make the playoffs.
I don’t know what’s wrong with Soriano. If it’s just an extended slump then I’ve got 17 million reasons as to why he should still be starting. He’s much too good not to be given every chance plus a few more to work through his issues.
Of course, there’s no guarantee of him being given the leadoff spot. It has been much, much, much past time for him to be moved down the the order.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 4, 2009 5:16 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
His salary
doesn’t change the fact that he is not hitting at all, yet continues to be in the lineup where he fails in critical situations. Whoever temporarily took his spot won’t bat a thousand, but he will hit better than Soriano has for the past 6 weeks.
Dropping him in the order is a start, but he’s still leaving guys on base in the 6 hole. Once Ramreiz and Johnson come back, it stands to reason Soriano would be in even more RBI spots. The team can’t afford to have an automatic out in the 1st, 6th, 7th or 8th spot.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cub fans deserve this outfield
Fukodome,Bradly, and Soriono see what your 90 dollar ticket brings in. They should build a team like the tampa bay devil reays did to win the pennent spend money on prospects
take it easy
by angryandy on Jul 4, 2009 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why do Cubs fans "deserve" this outfield?
Management made the decisions on who to sign, and how much money to offer. If there was a mailing out there asking for our suggestions or permission on their signing decisions, I must’ve missed it. Do Sox fans get that kind of a courtesy from Kenny Williams? I’d be interested to know.
"You have to have short-term memory, no matter who you are in this game. There's always tomorrow." ~Derrek Lee
by Goodie1969 on Jul 4, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the sense of "Deserve" in the sense of
being willing to pony up $90 a seat, year in year out. If the demand for tickets is really “inelastic” (i.e., not too sensitive to price pressure), management will spend without too much regard to cost, because they know they can make it up at the box office. Management with a more fickle fan base (or smaller fan base) has to be more creative economically — i.e., the basis of “Moneyball”.
Now, I’m not saying the Cubs shouldn’t be using pursuit of top-tier free agents as a tactic. But if there’s a bottomless pit of money, I see how it can make an organization lazy: why put all the work into developing talent if you can just go out and buy it?
by ChipSet on Jul 5, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never
paid $90 for a seat.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In his 1st AB today
he took a low and away pitch that was off the corner and PULLED it softly down the 3rd bas line. I even replayed it a number of times and was in awe that he could pull that pitch. OK, it seems everyone that has ever seen a baseball game knows to pitch him down and away, Not even on the plate, just so that he can’t hit the ball hard. However, Mr. Soriano seems to be unaware that he cannot try and pull that pitch and hit it hard, It doesn’t make a damn difference if he’s healthy or on his last leg, He cannot pull that pitch.
Now as a manager i can point that out. As a hitting instructor I can point that out. But Soriano is the only one that can make the choice either to lay off the pitch or go to right with it. There are no other sane options. And, if he refuses to make an adjustment, he is worthless to the team. His choice, but Lou has to be willing to enforce the edict. Soriano is not in a slump. He is in a pity party and helping destroy this team. It’s lou’s move.
I doubt we’ll see anything happen however. Over the summer we’ll hear that Soriano was injured( even if he wasn’t) and he expects next year to be better. We deserve a resolution this year, not an excuse after it’s over. If Sori doesn’t fix it by Monday, I put his butt on the DL even if he cries all the way to the bank. The Cub fans deserve better from the decision makers.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 4, 2009 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Screw the DL
As you said, that’s just an excuse. Make him the 4th OF. Make him be a RH pinch hitter. I think it’s clear he doesn’t like sitting. Well, if he’s not productive, don’t give him an option. Sit him. It’s where he belongs.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 4, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem there
is that if stays, someone with SOME value goes down. It seems that is not in the best interest of the team.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 5, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct.
The DL seems to be the best option, especially with three players due off on Monday.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 5, 2009 4:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An injury is merely speculation.............
so can the Cubs still put him on the DL?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 5, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bat him lower in the order and hope he starts hitting.
Soriano has carried this team for long stretches the past couple of years.. When Ramirez returns, I’d like to see a lineup of: Fukudome, Theriot, Bradley, Lee, ARam, Soto, Soriano & Fontenot.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jul 4, 2009 5:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One thing i don't understand
We moved Soriano out of the leadoff but why did Lou put Fukudome in that spot? He’s the one regular who hit worse than Soriano. I’m no manager and I really don’t do armchair booking but wouldn’t Theriot, Fuld or even Fontenot made more sense?
By the way, Harden has a higher batting average than 3 regulars.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 5:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can any of those 3 pitch?
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE!
King Leonidas: Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
by Zeke on Jul 4, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No but can Harden ?
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 4, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fukudome also has a OBP of .380-ish
doesnt matter whether the leadoff man hits his way on or walks his way on
wells4roty
by jesus christos on Jul 4, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano had a higher .OBP
For the month of June than Fukudome. Soriano had .274 to Fukudome .270. Regardless, with those numbers in last 30 games, neither man should be leading off.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not saying either should leadoff, but if i had to choose between fukudome or soriano leading off atm id choose fukudome
wells4roty
by jesus christos on Jul 4, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
Interestingly enough, Soriano walked one less time than Fukudome did in June (I know I’m using only June stats but its a good indicator). Soriano also had more at-bats. I think right now with the .OBP and hitting department they are equals.
And for Fukudome that’s a bad thing, especially OBP.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would personally
go:
Theriot-Bradley(maybe Baker platoon)-Lee-Ramirez-Fox (LF)-Soto-Johnson/Fuld platoon-Blanco
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The person sitting should be Fukudome.
That’s a good lineup, but I’d keep Soriano in there and hope he snaps out of his funk…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jul 4, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I was thkiing Theriot-Bradley too.
I do believe Fukudome needs to sit more than Soriano. I know I’m repeating myself on every post but he’s played worse.
Soriano seems like the kind of player who will play better with Ramirez in the lineup. It sucks that he’s paid so much to perform like this but that could be the case.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
I’m guessing you’re using the word “played” loosely. Fukudome brings defensive ability that Soriano doesn’t come close to rivaling. Soriano is disinterested in the field and on the bases and Fukudome actually plays the game the right way. You can argue they have been equals at the plate for the past several weeks but Fukudome is a baseball player. Soriano isn’t.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 4, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will agree with thatr
On the field, I’d rather have Fukudome out there. But we can’t have both on the field at the same time. Johnson or Fuld have to get a start for either of them 3-4 games a week.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not injured in my estimation
Rather father time is catching up to him and he needs to make dramatic changes to his approach. There are very few major league players who have made a living of guessing fastball and wielding a 200 ounce baseball bat in their mid-30’s. Juan Samuel and Julio Franco are rare examples of two players who were able to do that. And in the case of each both may have been on roids.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 4, 2009 7:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
todd hollandsworth said yesterday he didnt see any changes from sorianos approach prebenching and post benching, that sounds about right
wells4roty
by jesus christos on Jul 4, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
source?
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Jul 5, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes because every player who turns 33
immediately has their BA drop 100 or more points. In fact I am surprise there are ANY players left 33 or older. I guess the remaining ones are just better at covering their use of roids.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 4, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are probably right
since you were right on Derrek Lee……..oh wait.
by sue369 on Jul 4, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more month
And if Soriano struggles, I think people are going to suggest on here Cubs take the Andruw Jones approach.
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 8:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs will be more paitent then that.
To much money, to many years. Now if the contract ran out in 2011, different story. He is here for awhile.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jul 4, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But I meant, how long until people on here start wanting that?
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure some already do
I want to do what’s best for the team this year and what’s best for making Soriano productive long-term, in that order.
Both of those require Soriano to be out of the lineup for the time being.
I say DL him because we are already playing essentially with a 24 man roster. Side note, can anyone tell me why Patton is SO valuable to the franchise that they’ll play a man short in a win now season just to keep him long term? I could see the Royals or Nationals make a move like that. But not the Cubs. I just don’t get it.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good question
That’s something Lou and Jim Hendry only know the answer about (Patton).
I just don’t agree on DLing Soriano. He has to come out of this funk.
One person who probably will be DL’d is Harden. I’m guessing they’ll give him one more start. If it goes bad, he’ll be looked at throughout the All Star Break and maybe skipped in the rotation once. Sean Marshall can make a spot start. People have been acting like he’s been bad all year but just Harden’s last start, he owned the opponents (Pirates I believe?).
by ak123 on Jul 4, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sori and Harden need the DL right now
but they won’t go till monday when Johnson and Guzman and AmRam get back.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 5, 2009 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad Knee + Bad Habits + Trying Too Hard
It adds up to a bad combination.
by CaliCub on Jul 4, 2009 10:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Flud but what about the Hoff?
Feel free to flame me but I think this line up scores runs:
Theriot SS
Fontenot 2b
Lee 1b
Bradley RF
Fox 3b
Hoff LF
Soto C
Fukudome CF
Pitcher
Best part is Lou get his RLRLRLRL he as been after.
I think it’s a line up that scores run and is the best we can hope for on Defense.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 5, 2009 2:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not going to flame you
but you could argue that Fontenot doesn’t belong in the lineup period, let along in the 2 hole.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jul 5, 2009 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be a good argument also. I'd rather have Blanco.
BTW, is Miles still on this team? :-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 5, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
15 day DL. I think he comes off the DL early this week too.
I assume his injury will re-appear and he will be put back on the DL
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
by LAcarl519 on Jul 5, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Hoff
has not batted well at all. He’s been figured out. Send him down.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano is slumping...no doubt about that.
But I will remind you all (specifically BLOU) how everyone here talked about benching Lee for Hoff, moving Lee down in the order, trading Lee for marbles, how Lee’s career was almost to its end, how costly it was for the Cubs to continue to playing Lee at all (let alone in the 3 hole; the nerve!), and why Derrek’s days of contributing were over.
How’d that work out for you guys?
If Soriano is injured, DL him and let him take a break. If not, he HAS to be in the lineup. Maybe give him an extra day off now and then, but we MUST have Soriano contributing if we want to win this division.
The game threads (admittedly not the best measure of the BCB pulse) has many people clamoring for Lou to bench that clown. I would cite examples, but I don’t feel profanity is really necessary here. Multiple times people have called him worthless; two days ago somebody said he was the worst player on the team.
Write him off. Go for it. Talk about benchings that just won’t happen. Talk about trade proposals that will not happen. Spend your time here agonizing over the depths of Soriano’s slump. Forget his hot start (that was so long ago, right?). Forget his late-inning jacks that carried us to start this season. Forget him carrying the team in 07. The regular season doesn’t matter! He sucks in the postseason! Whatever.
We need Soriano’s bat in this lineup. Given his career averages and his start this year, it is only a matter of time before he turns things around. Just like D-Lee wasn’t quite “done” as so many people here claimed, Soriano isn’t either. He’ll prove these opinions wrong. But when he does, nobody saying them will care. They’ll just wait until he struggles again to throw him under the bus.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jul 5, 2009 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
But this past a slump
When you can’t hit for nearly two months without even a few games of your old self something is just plain wrong. You just can’t keep batting a guy who not only bats about .150 but can’t sacrifice and has fielding issues. You just can not keep hoping he will turn it around. I know you can’t dump him or trade him but he needs either to be benched for a while or go on the DL. Figuring it out while playing everyday is devastating.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 5, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the beginning of May...
Lee had a .284 SLG%.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jul 5, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, for reference,
Soriano’s in June was .311.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jul 5, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one person
hoped that he would die so that we could get out of the contract.
I agree. Soriano will start to hit again, and he cannot do that if he’s not in the lineup.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope that comment was flagged.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 5, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
[not Drew's but the comment that Soriano should die]
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 5, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, it was handled.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 5, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good Lord, what freaking misanthrope said that?
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Jul 5, 2009 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Go read the first
game thread from yesterday.
by sue369 on Jul 5, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Living several hundred miles from Chicago, I don’t get to see very many games. I went to Sunday’s game against the Brewers and came away disgusted with Soriano. I’ve cut him some slack in the past, because I don’t believe slumps always reflect lack of effort. Sunday he failed to hustle on a ball hit to right center. The center fielder dropped it and Soriano wasn’t even to first base yet. It’s doubtful he could have made second anyway, but if the ball had bounced a little farther away, his lack of hustle would have cost a base. Then he didn’t hustle on a ground ball. Either the shortstop or third baseman, bobbled it. He recovered and threw to second and Soriano wasn’t even close enough to slide and take out the second baseman. Again, it didn’t cost them, because they didn’t turn the double play anyway.
I can take a batting slump and even the misjudgement on fly balls, but I can’t accept a lack of hustle.
by CubbieFaninOhio on Jul 6, 2009 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the first ball
he expected to be caught.
That “grounder” was a line-drive hit right at Hall. Hall muffed the play and only knocked it down. Soriano had to hold up to make sure it wasn’t caught. This is little-league baseball — line-drives MUST go through to the outfield before you run, to make sure they’re not caught. Either Soriano would have been caught off the bag, or he was going to be forced out at second.
This is not lack of hustle. This is being hostage to Hall screwing up the play.
I suppose you were mad at him for running aggressively on the second bloop single, where he had to stop and dive back to the bag to make sure he wasn’t cut down at second.
There is NOTHING to indicate Soriano doesn’t hustle. No Thing.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 6, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on Drew
I do love your optimism, I really do. And I respect your fandom, as you said in your fanpost, and your defending of our players no matter what. But CubbieFaninOhio provided two examples from that game that showed Soriano’s lack of hustle, and I agree wholeheartedly with his assesment. Watching the game, I commented to my coworkers (yes, I was “working”) how unacceptable both of those plays were. I love the Cubs, and I root for Soriano no matter what, but the fact is his hustle is not 100%.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 6, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Drew here.
I saw the same things at Sunday’s game. It did not look like lack of hustle. It looked like Soriano was, and is, hurt. He needs to go on the DL.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 7, 2009 4:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why in the world did he not get sent to the DL, then?
Do they just figure that the rest of the ASB will be enough? I’m concerned about Soriano now that he wasn’t put on the DL.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 7, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly...
…both Piniella and Hendry want to get Soriano going and they feel if he doesn’t, their chances are drastically reduced for making the playoffs – and I agree with that general premis.
With that said, if he is hurt enough to where it is effecting his play, now is the perfect time to DL him and let him recover. The thing is, I am not sure his hurting is not more mental than physical, as I think this funk he is in has really gotten in his head.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 7, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I disagree
those examples show nothing of the sort.
See how easy this is?
NONE of us are in his head. NO ONE is qualified to make this judgment.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course
and I’m not egotistical enough to argue that I know what Soriano is going through or thinking. It was merely my observation of those plays. Again, it’s a moot point since they didnt hurt the team any, and I am rooting along with you for Soriano to succeed. Go Cubs!
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 7, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
Related FanShots on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
