Halladay or Peavy?
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jul 7, 2009 9:19 AM CDT
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If BCB could decide, who would you rather have on our rotation? Roy Halladay or Jake Peavy?
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/11925937
What do you think? Current stats are below:
Halladay: 10-2, 2.97 era, 1.09 whip, 98 K, 17 bb, 3 CG, .250 baa
Peavy: 6-6, 3.97 era, 1.19 whip, 92 K, 28 bb, 1 CG, .228 baa
I would rather have Halladay because of his ability to finish games. In 271 MLB starts, he has had 43 complete games. Peavy only has 7 complete games in 212 starts.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Someone who couldn't have Halladay because he was playing for a competitive team..
and wasn’t available..
by DisCUBbobulated on Jul 7, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Someone's gotta say Peavy, that is all we have heard about the past year.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jul 7, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions
Because Peavy was available and we nearly had enough to get him.
We don’t have enough to trade to win a bidding war for Halladay. He’s the better pitcher by far.
This poll needs a third option. I want to vote for Brian Roberts.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
Glad you didn't take it seriously
I did vote, btw
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 7, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Last I checked
The cubs had one of the best starting rotations, and on of the worst run producing lineups in the league. If we make a blockbuster trade at the deadline, it wont involve aquiring a SP.
by grand salamis on Jul 7, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Then lets go for Roberts
Lord knows we’re not getting much out of 2B as it is
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
fonty
is hitting over .400 in July. Yes, it’s a small sample size, but for the last 7 days:
.421.450.526.976
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
thats beyond small
its miniscule
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Or, actually,
it’s more than a week.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I want Mark DeRosa
Ladies and gentlemen! It's 1985 all over again, but this time the offense goes to hell!
Stole my line
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 7, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Another thing to consider
Halladay: $15.75 M for 2010, FA after
It would cost a ton to keep him here. At least Peavy would be in the Cubs control through 2013.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jul 7, 2009 9:34 AM CDT reply actions
Well if we can afford him for 2 years
Then who carea about 2011. It’s about winning in 2009 or in this case…stopping another NL team from claiming him and winning the NL Central.
I don't know
Vitters could be up by then, maybe in May of that year. A couple of the young pitchers could be in the rotation by then. If they don’t sign Lee to an extension, they’ll save some money. If Bradley stays healthy, he’ll be in a contract year, and if not, he’ll be gone. The Cubs may have one albatross contract in 2011, Soriano. We’ll see how Fukudome does. Other than that, if young guys like Thomas, Vitters, and a couple pitchers can fill spots, there should be payroll to acquire one good player.
Expensive: Soriano, Fukudome, Ramirez, Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, Bradley?
Arb Years: Soto, Theriot, Fox?, Marmol, Marshall, Guzman, Samardzija
Cheap: Wells, Vitters?, Thomas, Jackson?, Atkins?, relievers?
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Yes at $48 million for the next 3 years
Considering Peavy may miss the rest of the season, no thanks.
Hendry doesn't want to do anything
Because he “likes” this team and thinks it’s “pretty good.”
Vote for Pedro!
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
You didn't give the choice "none of the above".
The Cubs don’t need starting pitching. They need bullpen help.
Plus, Peavy is on the DL and possibly out for the year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2009 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed...
Now, if they want to part with Aaron Hill…
by Damen Jackson on Jul 7, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Halladay is the superior pitcher
but the question gets more nuanced if you consider contracts and trade costs.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 7, 2009 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed...
if the question is “who would you rather have in our rotation?” (as was posted in the FanPost), it’s a no-brainer. Halladay is unquestionably the better option.
If the question is “who would you rather trade for?”, it’s a little more difficult.
Exactly.
I feel pretty confident that neither one will be a Cub, so any conversation to that effect is academic. I just hope Halladay doesn’t end up in the NL Central. It appears there’s a slim chance the Brewers might make a run at him.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
The Brewers may make a run at him
However, I’m coming to the conclusion that Ryan Braun becoming a clubhouse cancer is going to balance any potential deal.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Peavy is out for the year in all likelihood
so of course Halladay is the choice. That said, comparing their stats for this season is a bit of a cheap shot, in light of Peavy’s injury, and using the number of complete games by each is pretty irrelevant.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
Agree about PV likely being out for the season.
Even if he comes back, he’ll likely be favoring that ankle and not in command (or control) of his best stuff. Plus, the Padres will probably be buried so deep in the standings that it’ll be like pitching spring training games.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
move along....
PV , all day and twice on Sunday…
Sike.
Doc > Jake
Go Cubs. Go Irish.
"I was in awe every time I walked on to the field." -- Ryne Sandberg
"No player in baseball history worked harder, suffered more, or did it better than Andre Dawson. He's the best I've ever seen." -- Ryno
by ctinsley12bsu on Jul 7, 2009 10:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I'll take the one who's not on the DL
Only if he’s at all possibly moving to another NL Central team.
Is this a serious question?
I’d take Halladay. And I’d also take Pujols if given the choice between him and Casey Kotchman.
we'll give them Miles
straight up.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
What about a choice between Pujols and Casey McGehee?
Ah, see. I got ya there, didn’t I?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Halladay
He’ll throw 500 pitches if it means his team will win. All out kinda guy.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 7, 2009 11:07 AM CDT reply actions
Who would I rather have Albert Pujols or Casey Kotchman?
Silly poll. Peavy is on the DL and even if healthy Halladay is better.
Just imagining
If the Cubs WERE interested in Roy Halladay, what would it take in trade?
I’m going to say you include Rich Harden (hey, he’s Canadian and if he improves a bit this year, he’ll probably be a Type A free agent based on his great 2008).
Beyond that, the Blue Jays don’t actually need more starting pitching, if their starters come back healthy next year. So, a low minors, high upside pitcher: Jay Jackson?
Then, probably a bullpen arm for some immediate benefit: Ascanio? Parker?
(Or, substitute Marmol for both Jackson and the reliever).
Finally, two strong prospects as position players. They would ask for Vitters, but maybe Clevenger and Castro would do.
Another way to make the trade happen would be to take on a big salary they want to dump, maybe BJ Ryan?
IF the Cubs were not concerned with the dollars, and IF they actually wanted Halladay, do you agree that a package of Harden, Jackson, Ascanio, Clevenger, and Castro for Halladay and Ryan would be acceptable to Toronto?
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Why would you want Ryan?
He’s been bad and injured.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wouldn't
neither would anybody. That’s why the Jays might make this trade, even without Vitters or Marmol.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
With Dempster on the DL...
… maybe this is worth discussing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You dream, sir....
You couldn’t get J.P. to even take your call unless his secretary told him you wanted to discuss Vitters. Vitters, Marshall, and Marmol; that’s what it would take. It’s Doc Freaking Halladay!
by Damen Jackson on Jul 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
The only way it could get done is if Zambrano went to the Jays.
It would take some specs too, but with the addition of Zambrano, I doubt it would require Vitters but it would still require good talent. By the way if anyone here wouldn’t do a Zambrano and maybe a prospect or two swap for Halladay, with a new contract, you’re nuts.
Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!
Ha! That's funny...
You haven’t figured out yet that Rogers is a bunch of tight asses? They’ve got no interest in taking back an equal salary for Halladay. Hell, given the economic situation with them, it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that they want that money gone more than anything else. They’re probably just sad that they can’t dump Wells off somewhere.
J.P. likes to talk a nice game about being competitive, but a few A/B+ prospects, cost-controlled for the next five years, is really more their speed.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 7, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
How the hell would we be able to take his salary on???
Answer me that…
Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!
Maybe you misunderstood my point...
Personally, I think that the Cubs shouldn’t even be interested in this acquisition. My point was the level of talent that required to pluck a Halladay, if they were to be interested in absorbing that cost, would be significantly greater than the assets that you tossed out. Given the Sabathia and Teixeira deals, likely much greater.
But as I said previously, if Toronto is in sell mode, I’d sooner the Cubs start calling about Hill.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 7, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Big Z and a prospect for Halladay?
In a heartbeat .
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Why would the Blue Jays do that?
Aren’t they trying to shed salary?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
+1
They might want to go young to.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 8, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Ask Cub Style
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Why would the Blue Jays do that?
Aren’t they trying to shed salary?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
If I'm the Jays
I tell people I only move Halladay if people take Vernon Wells, too, citing the Beckett-Lowell deal. The Jays OF of 2010 should be Tr. Snider – Rios – Lind if they can dump Wells and his contract, freeing up the money used on Wells to buy pieces they can really use.
Wells has not only stopped hitting, but he’s also playing below average defense according to UZR the past two years.
The Cubs could make a deal like this if they can take on payroll (a huge if), but I don’t think we’d be as motivated to do that as some other clubs might be. I don’t see the Cards or Brewers making that deal, but I could see the Reds making it.
Edwin E., Homer B., & Todd Frazier for Halladay and Wells?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 7, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say something more like...
Todd Frazier, Yonder Alonzo, Mike Leake, and Ramon Hernandez (since they need to give Hannigan more play time)
Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!
Curse Prospect Lists!!!
Insert next highest Reds pitching spec not named Bailey.
Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!
I doubt any team in baseball has the flexibility to add 30M in payroll
The Beckett-Lowell deal worked because Beckett was cheap. I don’t think you could do that with two $15M guys.
You're probably right.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Jul 7, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
No probably about it - Harden is indeed a Type A as of now
However he’s relatively close to the border to Type B (he’s a 78 right now according to Bajek’s scoring system) – a bad year or a lot of DL time could push him down below a score of 72 by free agency.
Guess?
Something like Josh Vitters, Darwin Barney, Chris Carpenter, and say, Angel Guzman could perhaps get the conversation started. Halladay only has one year left, so that’d be a factor. We actually match up alright with them.
A stab at a Vitters-less iteration – Jay Jackson, Starlin Castro, Ryan Searle and Angel Guzman?
Again, that’s just to get the conversation started. They are probably looking at shortstop, 3rd base perhaps, along with high level pitching talent. I don’t think it would take a ton more, but that’s just a hunch. Certainly, each trade exists in it’s own environment, but recent trades of top pitching (albeit, in different circumstances) have not netted the gigantic returns people expected. Add in teams are increasingly overprotecting of their youngsters and the poor economy, and I don’t think it’d take the moon. A lot? Yes. The moon? Not so sure about that.
The Cubs don’t need SP, that’s certainly true, but you have to at least keep an ear open in regards to big time talent. Add in, well, there isn’t a glaring positional spot that needs to be dealt for, and even if one emerges, do you really want to overpay for mediocre talent? Furthermore, pen arms are already overpriced each July, and we don’t need middle relief guys outside of perhaps another LOOGY (and we have enough middle relief options to look at in the minors, including lefties, with Jeremy Papelbon now at AAA. Do I really feel great about a Zambrano/Dempster/Lilly/Harden foursome in the postseason as of right now (with how they’ve performed this year)? I mean, I’d take our chances, but feeling great? No. That said, we probably couldn’t make a big deal like this without shaving off a contract.
Certainly not expecting Doc, though, and I’m not really expecting a big deal, and I’m not really expecting any dealing for that matter.
should be clear
Those two “mock” deals are not deals I am expecting, and I’m not sure the Blue Jays would accept them. What I am trying to say is that, I think those two deals could compete with other teams bids, and I think the Blue Jays would have to ponder it. In this environment, to get an elite, top 40 hitting prospect (Vitters) or a high level pitching prospect (Jackson) in any trade would be a huge return.
sounds like a potential three way deal if the cubs were involved
J.P. is an old Billy Beene boy and he will tray and get as much as he can for someone who’s stock is so high. Its kinda funny that draft picks are not tradable, but when you look at how the A’s would take on players so that at the end of the year they would leave and then they would get compensatory picks. With that said, the cubs really would have to have another team involved. I like the way you are looking at it Zambranofan. I agree that J.P. would try and dump Ryan, that could be were the third team comes in to play. Thats 14.2 and 12 million of the book for them and I could see allot of teams becoming interested in Guzman, I would hate to see him go. I also see that the left side of the infield for the jays is getting old, I look at what the Whitesox almost gave away for Peavy and I am concerned that the cubs might have to give away a Beckham type player, since we only have one of those I wont even mention his name.
Hector Villanueva ate himself out of the big leagues, He was a Big Big leaguer
by Adam Uhlhorn on Jul 8, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
This is a VERY interesting analysis of Halladay's value.
and I don’ think that the Cubs have enough.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
He hasn't been bad
He’s been horrible.
I have nothing funny or creative to write.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 7, 2009 1:09 PM CDT reply actions
You want Roy Halladay???
Then be prepared to offer up something like Carlos Marmol, Sean Marshall, Jay Jackson and Josh Vitters. For starters…
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
For one year of Halladay?
A little much. Not way off, perhaps, but a little much.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Is Jay Jackson really that good?
I’m looking at his stats, and they are not amazing for being AA. Has anyone seen this guy and been wowed? Will he be a front end of the rotation guy, middle, or end of the rotation guy? What kind of stuff does he have?
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jul 8, 2009 8:10 AM CDT reply actions
Great questions for...
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
The facts of this
We’ve got enough to deal with the Jays. It just depends what your willing to deal and it cant be anyone with money more than likely, you have to remember they’re also shopping Rios because of they way they structured Wells contract, they’ll be stuck with him, no one in their right mind would take Vernon Wells contract unless they’re paying and that probably wont happen either. Thee other factor is that their GM and our Scouting Director arent on the best terms and their Gm’s ego might get in the way of this deal.
So exactly who makes up the "enough" that it would take to strike a deal with the Jays?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
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