Isn't Dempster's injury the perfect opportunity for "The Shark"?

by WanderingWanderer on Jul 8, 2009 9:12 AM CDT Comment 59 comments

I'm really hoping that Kevin Hart is not the long term solution to filling in for Dempster's spot in the rotation, and the Cubs were trying to stretch Spellcheck out in Iowa, so wouldn't this be a pretty good time to see if Jeff is going to be anything other than a decent to mediocre middle reliever?

Spellcheck pitched three innings on the fourth, why not have Hart pitch three or four innings tonight, then have Jeff pitch three or four innings, and then go on the understanding that he (Jeff) will get four days off, and take the next Dempster start?

Why continue to mis-use a kid the team has invested quite a bit of time and money in?

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I don't think so.

If a pitcher’s going to start, put him in the rotation and let him start. Doing what you suggest is like spring training. This isn’t spring training.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Jul 8, 2009 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If only

Shark had more than a pitch and a half to throw.

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 8, 2009 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Truth!

Get Peavy already! I want my #44 jersey!

by Cub Style on Jul 8, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True...

…but how many does Kevin Hart have?

by serbianking33 on Jul 8, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's got a couple

the question remains though “how many strikes does he have”.

Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas

by Allie on Jul 8, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

doesnt really hurt Harden

he’s essentially got a fastball/changeup

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 8, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but his changeup is awesome

by cubbybear on Jul 8, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

very true

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 8, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nolan Ryan

How many pitches did he have?

by cubbybear on Jul 8, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

fastball, curveball for most of his career, then used a changeup later in his career

by cufban2522 on Jul 8, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two pitches is all you need...

…as long as you can throw both for a strike, come out of the same arm slot and vary enouph in speed.

Koufax only had two pitches and he made out ok, and so did a lot of other top flight pitchers. It all comes down to putting doubt in a hitters head which pitch is coming and also not tipping your pitches with your motion.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 8, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two pitches is all you need

if your two pitches are both exceptional, like Koufax, Gibson and Gooden. I am not so sure Samardzija’s two pitches are in their league, do you?

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not even close...

…and that is not what I was inferring. Samardzja is still very unrefined as a pitcher, and I really don’t know whether he will every be refined enouph to be even an adequate starter in the bigs.

I was stating this because a lot of people think you need 3-4 pitches to be a good starter, and that is not the case. Very often, guys who have 4-5 pitches do so because their first three just aren’t very effective. The other thing is this, it is very difficult to command more than 2 pitches with any effectiveness for most guys, and their third pitch is usually just a waste pitch.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 8, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree about Shark though...

this guy appears to have always been a starter in the making. True he is working on his alternate pitches but he has good stuff. Whether he is ready or not well, that can be determined by giving him a shot. Kevin Hart? Cmon, he is not the guy for this spot. I assume they will slot in Marshall eventually but give Shark a chance.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hart had been outpitching Samardzija as a starter in AAA

by thehat34 on Jul 8, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But I have seen Hart at the big league level in short relief...

I agree with what you will likely say, same with Shark. I just feel like Shark has the stuff, given a few other options in his bag. But I suppose a good solid late inning guy wouldn’t hurt when Marmol blows out his arm or implodes completely.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 8, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've always thought of him as a setup-guy in the making

with chance of being a closer. He just doesn’t have the inventory of pitches (or the ability to place the two he does throw) to be a starter. How many guys over the years have we heard “he just needs another pitch”?

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Jul 8, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always saw him as a closer in the making myself

the lack of a changeup will prevent him from being a good starter, but if he can once again master his fastball and hard breaking ball (like last season), he can be a very effective guy facing hitters only once a game.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My expectations

for “the Shark” have never been very high – I’ve just never bought in I guess.

I truly believe he would have a better chance contributing in a Bears uniform.

by joz132 on Jul 8, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agree

but if his passion is for baseball, more power to him. I think that took a lot of guts to turn down the nfl, where he definitely would have been drafted early. He would’ve ended up making much more in the nfl, considering he would have had way more endorsement opportunities. I don’t like him as a pitcher, because quite honestly I don’t think he’s good, but I totally respect his decision to go to MLB over the NFL.

by cufban2522 on Jul 8, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

earning potential

is MUCH higher as a MLB pitcher than an NFL WR

quite significantly

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 8, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was talking...

in terms of endorsements and such, which could add up to a significant amount, plus he would get that endorsement money right away.

by cufban2522 on Jul 8, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes because...

… you can play a longer career in baseball. But, if he flames out and never makes it, he may never make as much as his rookie bonus would have been. Although, he was signed for a huge amount when drafted.

by serbianking33 on Jul 8, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I respect his decision...

I was simply saying I think he’s a better football player.

by joz132 on Jul 8, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much can you sell your knees for?

by cubbybear on Jul 8, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't quite figure out what...

…the Cubs are trying to do with Samardzija. And I suppose it’s possible that Lou might pitch Hart for four innings today and then let Jeff take a couple thereafter. It’s a damn shame the Cubs couldn’t have pulled out a win last night because that would’ve taken a lot of pressure off Hart and whoever is going to pitch the middle/late innings of today’s game (assuming Kevin doesn’t blow all of our minds with a CG).

In any case, I still expect Marshall to return to the rotation in Demp’s absence. If Fossum’s not good enough to bring up as the replacement LHP in the ’pen, just do without for a while and bring up Jeff Stevens.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 8, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Today's pitching scenario hopefully

Hart starts and goes 4-5 solid innings, then comes Samardzija for 1 or 2 and then the usual suspects after that.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is Marshall's time

I have to believe that Marshall should be one to pitch in Dempster’s place. I think that he is the 6th best starting pitcher we have. The only problem is we would no longer have a lefty out of the bullpen.

by wrigleyville-Jerry on Jul 8, 2009 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Why not let Marshall start. Then we can bring Ascaino back to fill his spot in the pen.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 8, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't Ascanio a RHP?

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 8, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Confirmed.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 8, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ascaino was looking good too this year.

His fastball had some great zip to it.

by cufban2522 on Jul 8, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ascanio is still a RH pitcher that's why

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would say 5th best at this point

Rich harden is having a very up and down season this year with more downs. I am hoping Harden turns it around but Marshall has been consistently good this year.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by jkobus on Jul 8, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want to agree

But I really feel like the bullpen is finally getting sorted out, and part of fixing it involves the sturdy Sean Marshall. As has been stated here, Marshall needs to be left in for longer outings, though, not as a LOOGY.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Jul 8, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Leave Marshall in the pen where

he has settled in very nicely

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marshall isn't stretched out enough to start...

Dempster will miss 4 possibly 5 starts. It’s not worth jerking Marshall around when he’s been doing so well in the pen.

by thehat34 on Jul 8, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just answered why Marshall stays in the pen

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Jul 8, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Samardzija should get a shot

But youre scenario is a bit odd; but if you pay the kid what you did and theres an opening in the rotation for 3 or 4 turns, what better time to give him a go?

Im sure Hart will do an adequate job, but I dont understand their reluctance to let him start, nor does it make sense to keep jerking him back and forth b/t levels and positions

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 8, 2009 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I can think of a better time for him to go.

When he has enough pitches to succeed as a starting pitcher.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 8, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying Kevin Hart will?

I think Shark’s inability to throw strikes consistently may drive Lou nuts. But, how many above average pitches does Hart have? His slider is good, when he can control it.

by serbianking33 on Jul 8, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hart, apparently, has a really good cutter as well.

To be honest, I’m not a big Kevin Hart fan. He was great when he first came up in ‘07, but he was a highly flammable liquid just about every time he saw the mound last year. Apparently, he has been pitching better – as a starter – in Iowa, so I’m open to seeing what he can do today.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 8, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he needs to add more effective pitches first

at this point, he has not developed good enough pitches to add to his fastball, so I think right now, relieving is what he should be doing. Sure, in the minor leagues, you can find success as a starter with a good fastball, but not in the major leagues.

by cufban2522 on Jul 8, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't trust Hart

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 8, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

shifty eyes

I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.

by drewishdrewid on Jul 8, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We've all gotten burned in relationships, dude.

She’s not the only fish in the sea. You just gotta get back out there and find the right girl for you. Maybe try Craig’s List.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 8, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Small hands, smells like cabbage

by cubbybear on Jul 8, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Misuse?

Going a bit far there? Piniella probably thinks Hart is a better choice right now. Samardzija will get his chance at some point to start. Maybe next spring when Harden is gone. I don’t think using him in the bullpen as long reliever is misusing him. If anyone is misused, it is Marshall. He seems ready to get a shot as a starter. Samardzija in the pen doesn’t bother me.

by rlpete on Jul 8, 2009 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll go ahead and say it...

I think now is the perfect time to deal Spellcheck. I just don’t see him being what we want him to be. I think he’s always going to struggle with location. I get the same feeling with him as I did Pie: All the potential in the world, but can’t put it all together to make the big club with any consistency.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Jul 8, 2009 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Can you say

not-trade clause?

"I lof to hit de home ron!"

by Tekboy on Jul 8, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

errrr

non trade clause

"I lof to hit de home ron!"

by Tekboy on Jul 8, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Everybody knows he has one,

but no one knows what he thinks. Has he ever said he wouldn’t waive it? Maybe he would like a shot at starting all the time.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Jul 8, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he was asked if he would waive it during the Peavy saga, and said no

by WanderingWanderer on Jul 8, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

all the money paid to shark

and not give him a chance to start now? dumb harts come & go. shark electrifies the wrigley crowd

by brian custer on Jul 8, 2009 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Shark will electrify the crowd the wrong way if he does poorly...

Wrigley will cheer for Hart if he pitches well

by thehat34 on Jul 8, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

b/c shark isn't ready

he’s got a decent fastball, but until he gets more than that he’ll never make it more than once through a major league lineup.

Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas

by Allie on Jul 8, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who cares about electrifies?

We are talking baseball not a concert. As I mentioned above I suspect Lou thinks Hart is a better choice in July 2009. This says nothing about the future. The Cubs need to win not excite the crowd.

by rlpete on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs