Soriano is angry at Lou
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 2:31 AM CDT
243 comments
but he refuses to discuss the issue with him. It seems that Piniella didn't give Sori adequate notice that he wouldn't be starting Wednesday. According to Alfonso, he expects at least 24 hours notice when he isn't starting. It seems that as a result of the "failure to notify of intent to bench" he was forced to prepare for the Wednesday game. Mr. Soriano went on to explain that on his "off days" he doesn't get ready. He did fail, however, to discuss the keen advantage his preparations have had on his .230 BA this year.
Unfortunately the reporter never asked Soriano if his .150 BA with RISP might also be as a result of not knowing who and when any of his teammates might be in scoring position when he came to the plate the following day. He also did not discuss if he felt disadvantaged when opposing pitchers failed to advise him how they were prepared to pitch to him the following day. Alfonso's agent refused to disclose any pertinent clauses in his contract which might give cause for a grievance but it is believed he had been in touch with the players Association.
In the interest of fairness, it is difficult for those of us making less than $18M per year to understand the pressure of preparing for the next day of work when we don't know the schedule. And it is particularly true for someone who recently called out a fellow player for giving less than 100% to the team. As the saying goes, don't judge another person until you've walked (or struck out ) a mile in their shoes. All I can say is thank you, Mr. Soriano. You have at last resolved any doubts I had about the respect you expect from me in the future.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Uh...
Link? Is there any merit to this or is this heresay? I don’t believe a word until I hear the source it is coming from. Right now I’m supposed to believe this random post with no proof?
by gizmo6d9 on Jul 9, 2009 2:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha Link fail!
I dont know why it’s not working
by gizmo6d9 on Jul 9, 2009 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you put it in the subject header, it won't work
The link needs to go in the comment body
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
So that explains it. I’ve tried so many times to post a link and couldn’t figure it out. I thought I was just inept. Well maybe I am. I kept trying the same way even though it didn’t work. Duh!
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 9, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That means you're insane, not inept.
And we’ve already established that you’re “mad”.
Dang, I’m getting a lot of mileage out of that.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
muwhahaha!
and like Poe “I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.”
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 9, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the link.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-09-cubs-bits-chicago-jul09,0,4562524.story
Sorry it isn’t pretty but it’s from the Trib. Trust me, I’m not smart enough to make up things like this.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 3:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break...
…part of what is wrong with the game these days – too much “tail wagging the dog”.
Soriano should direct his anger at the baseball!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 9, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Opposing pitchers don't notify him how'll they'll pitch him?"
Of course they do. Low and away curve balls every pitch, and he keeps swinging at it. Every time.
by reedjohnson on Jul 9, 2009 7:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting article talking about just that
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
by Archie on Jul 9, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great link
That’s my fear- that NL pitchers have finally figured this guy out. To me, it’s not an injury issue- it’s simply that they know how to pitch him now. ANyone with a modicum of control can get him out, no problem; it’s only mistake pitches he can hammer.
I don’t see his struggles going away unless he’s willing to stop swinging at that pitch. It’ll be a really long 5 1/2 yrs ahead of us unless he changes this.
by reedjohnson on Jul 9, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And puts down the telephone pole
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha!
I haz comedy show in August. You come seez it please?: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 9, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Guy
I think I get where Sori is coming from, but this quote still infuriates me: “If he had told me yesterday, then I wouldn’t come today ready to play.”
I mean, gawd forbid you actually come to the ballpark and focus for 5 hours or so, support your teammates, and prepare yourself in case you are called upon to help the team out. It’s not like you are getting paid to do that or anything.
by ErnieBanks on Jul 9, 2009 8:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, like shouldn't he be prepared anyway just in case he's needed?
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 9, 2009 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But someone like Soriano gets
Infrequent days off so it seems to me that those truly are off days whereby he isnt expecting play outside of an 18 inning duel. I say it is ok that he takes a day off here and there both mentally and physically. Anyone in sales can appreciate how quickly you can let your thoughts become your own worst enemy and how a slump can truly wear on you.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
by hansman1982 on Jul 12, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did he give Lou adequate notice
when he took days off from hitting going 0-4 or 0-5? What about his failure to notify of his intent to not hit? J/K-sort of
If he is injured like many people around here seem to suspect-maybe he would have liked to rest whatever is ailing him. If that is the case, then I could see him being upset. Still, I’m having a hard time feeling sorry for him.
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 9, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Rec'd.
He says his knees aren’t bothering him enough not to play. But it appears they are hindering his play, probably enough to go on the DL.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He appears to be running fine, no?
The last game I saw in person (Tuesday) he appeared to be charing for a couple balls down the left field line with no pain. Are you referring to his hitting?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't appear to me that he's running the bases at full strength.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you tell if he's running the bases at full strength
when he’s never on the bases!
I have nothing funny or creative to write.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey-O!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Canadian humor is my brand of humor
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jul 9, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm....come to think of it you are right....:-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 9, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a loafer
Plain and simple. People have been on Ramirez for failing to run out balls for years yet for some reason, Soriano gets to play the “mysterious knee injury” card despite the fact that he himself claims his knee is good enough for him to play. Soriano walks around most of the game, jogs to and from his position when he feels like it, runs the bases one at a time, routinely rounds off hits to the OF with no intention of running hard, rarely runs out fly balls or pop-ups, refuses to pay attention in the OF…yet it’s a knee injury that is apparently limiting him.
I’m sorry but this guy has been coddled since he’s been here and his lack of production and refusal to change his approach have his Chicago experience pointing to an ending of the Sosa variety. He’s now apparently upset with Pineilla? Are you serious? Guys that are hitting .230 with regular AB’s and playing an atrocious defensive OF while refusing to run the bases has the audacity to be upset with the manager for sitting him where he belongs.
My goodness. And people actually point to him as a team leader. Hilarious.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
as usual
you get it wrong. Soriano isn’t upset that Lou sat him. He’s upset that Lou sat him without telling him in advance.
Since tradition appears to be that starters play UNLESS told, it’s a legitimate issue. Now, I don’t think it should be dealt with via the media, but that’s a different thing entirely. I presume he was asked about it, and he probably said more than what was quoted, but the media shapes the story.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Breaking code
I have vowed to not respond to your very uneducated opinions on baseball ever again…but I’m breaking ranks for two reasons here.
One, since you apparently believe some laugable sense of “tradition” dictates how and when players are informed they aren’t playing…I am wondering what level you’ve ever played the game at Drew? Seriously. Obviously, you’re a bit behind the curve when it comes to how and why things happen in the dugout and clubhouse and I’m just trying to get a feel for how much ball you’ve actually played in your lifetime. You have tons of opinions on baseball-related things yet I’m trying to figure out from what experience you have them. It might give us a greater insight into what you do and don’t know about the game…in all seriousness.
Secondly, if you are insinuating that this is a media-driven problem rather than a production problem…well, then perhaps you just haven’t paid attention over the course of the past several weeks.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
you can wonder whatever the hell you want.
I asked someone else what the tradition was. They responded that starters usually play unless told not to.
neither of which has anything to do with your lack of comprehension of the problem Sori has with Lou — a problem that I’ve repeatedly said shouldn’t be handled via the media and SHOULD be handled privately, between the two.
Since you do not comprehend the problem, your second question is irrelevant. No one suggests that Soriano is playing well right now. At some point, you may comprehend that, but I’m not holding my breath.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
Your silence on my original question spoke volumes. The rest was just the usual uneducated noise.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What level have you played baseball at?
Really that is the card you are gonne play? BLou, how many accounts you got?!?!?!
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Secondly, if you are insinuating that this is a media-driven problem rather than a production problem…well, then perhaps you just haven’t paid attention over the course of the past several weeks.
I’m not sure how anyone could have paid attention this season and not immediately suspect a media-concocted controversy whenever a negative Cubs story is run.
I’m not saying all negative stories are media concoctions this season, but enough of them have been that their credibility is suspect.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oliver Stone on line 2, Mr. Wreckard.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Paul Sullivan admitting not once but twice that he covers athletes he doesn’t like in a negative manner doesn’t raise any red flags?
The “Zambrano must go!” controversy seemed like legitimate media coverage to you?
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate Sullivan, but
the “Zambrano must go” controversy was started by Phil Rogers, not the other dimwit.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jul 9, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to indicate that it was
Just that in general the media’s shown a lack of objectivity this year, and an interest in generating controversy.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
But “lack of objectivity” just this year? And I would venture the following statement: the Chicago Tribune and its affiliates are the only party who could be accused of partiality in their coverage of the Chicago Cubs. Maybe Mariotti too, but that assclown doesn’t really count, and he’ll start writing for the Trib in the next few weeks.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Jul 9, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's not new this year but it's certainly more negative
This is my favorite example from this year.
“Let’s just call it a day off for today,” Piniella said, adding Bradley will play Saturday and Sunday.
Rest assured, Bradley is being benched.
Sullivan gets a quote from the manager, saying it’s not a benching, then goes on to run with the headline and copy that it’s a benching.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Who rec’d this? I have always tried to find the personally attacking posts that Al has talked about and this appears to be one of them. A) it doesnt take a hall of famer to be able to point out some of the traditions of the game. Alot of these things have been talked about/known well before Fonzi was even a twinkle in his parents eyes. I also think that what Drew said even makes sense especially with someone like Soriano that they would receive instruction the day before that they would be benched.
Krummy – you apparently must be Pete Rose since you are throwing around accusations.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
by hansman1982 on Jul 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't blame a guy for taking the high road and being optimistic
and as i’m sure you’ve noticed, BCB has quite a few buzzkillingtons who come out whenever the cubs are under-performing. There are enough ledge jumpers who visit this blog to rec that post 30+ times. Not saying a little realism isn’t needed, but i’m definately not suprised that was made green
If it weren't for the gutter, my mind would be homeless.
by Cubsfanatic on Jul 13, 2009 4:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it shouldn't be an issue
Period.
I’ve defended Soriano against the people who claim he’s a malcontent, claiming they have no proof, but when you whine about not starting, and then give a long, convoluted reason for why you’re angry, then acting like a child, and saying you’re not even going to talk to the manager?
I understand you’re squarely in Soriano’s corner, but to defend him for this is plain ridiculous
by WanderingWanderer on Jul 10, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I've said
in plenty of places, I don’t think Soriano should have conducted this through the media, and I think he needs to talk to his manager directly.
Again. He’s not “whining” about not starting. He was unhappy that he wasn’t TOLD he wasn’t starting. Now, that brings up the interesting concept of how and why does he prepare differently on days when he doesn’t start, but since we don’t know his routines, we can’t judge that.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno Drew
I think all players should come to the park ready to play whether they start or not. Last minute injuries do happen (Geo) so they all should be prepared to play. The coach should be allowed to make last minute changes in the lineup. I think Soriano handled this badly.
by sue369 on Jul 10, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
they SHOULD come to the park ready to play. I’m just pointing out the differences between complaining about not playing and complaining about not being told he’s going to play.
He shoulda kept it out of the media, and gone straight to Lou.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we disagree
then on him complaining about being told he is to play or not. Should be Lou’s right to change lineups any time.
by sue369 on Jul 10, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willie Mays Hayes
in the second Major League
by IowaCubsWS09 on Jul 10, 2009 3:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
An All Star slugger is Willie Mays Hayes. Pray tell how they are similar? Hayes was a scrub who wanted to hit HRs but was better off hitting ground balls and trying to beat them out. Soriano IS a slugger who has been an All-Star and has hit plenty of dingers. In what way are they similar?
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm cut off there.
Hayes was a scrub who wanted to hit HRs but was better off hitting ground balls and trying to beat them out. Soriano IS a slugger who has been an All-Star and has hit plenty of dingers. In what way are they similar?
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah his lack of production
Like his first year with the Cubs when he was an All-Star. Or how about his other year with the Cubs, you know, when he was again an All-Star? Damn he sucks. What a horrible lack of production. I mean he was only the 2nd best Cubs hitter over his Cubs career prior to this year. God. We totally shouldnt have coddled him the last two years, knowing he would slump this year.
Ah refusing to run the bases. The catchall code criticism for not being scrappy enough.
Never mind Fonzie had 19 SB each of the last 2 years, while being caught 3 times and 6 times. And much of that on a bum wheel. Yeah, no hustle.
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you look at him run
he is very stiff legged. He doesn’t get a lot of flex at his knee joints as if they were unbendable. He seems to have partially corrected lifting his back right leg just before hitting the ball, but he still reaches for everything outside as if it is a complete surprise that the pitcher would probably throw out there.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont forget
his moon is in Orion, and his major house is in flux.
Give me a break.
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see that Al...
…Soriano is VERY sensative to his body, and when something is hindering his play it is very obvious in his physical movements. I don’t see him laboring much at all.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 9, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It did show in his baserunning last weekend.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all choked up.
My first green! You guys made my day.
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jul 9, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like...
…Soriano is a bit full of himself there. I hate to say it, but he made it sound like it was all about him there. Sorry pal, but there are other guys on your team.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 9, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What if he has to pinch hit?
Good to know he’d be prepared for that.
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Jul 9, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It depends.
Should the Right Handed pitcher have a good breaking ball, Soriano (in street clothes), will be announced over the PA and inform the umpire of his automatic 4 pitch strikeout. Umpire will then inform opposing manager that the pitcher is charged the 4 pitches on his pitch count and should be treated as though he actually threw said pitches.
If the pitcher is Left Handed or does not have a good breaking ball, Soriano (still in street clothes), will be announced over the PA and inform the umpire of his 1 pitch fly out. If a runner is on base and there are less than 2 outs, it will be assumed the at bat will last 2 pitches and result in a GIDP. All “agreed” pitches will be counted toward pitch counts.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 9, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
FYI
This is also being discussed in this fan post from yesterday.
I haz comedy show in August. You come seez it please?: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 9, 2009 8:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
FanShot, actually.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops. yep.
I haz comedy show in August. You come seez it please?: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 9, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should be coming to the ballpark PREPARED to play... EVERYDAY...
There’s no telling what can happen before a game. Yesterday, Soto got scratched because he hurt himself in BP. And… well… we know how Dempster freakishly got hurt the other day.
And, I would really love to know how much time Soriano spends in the video room, watching opposing pitchers. I’d kill to get an inside source to provide that info. Pujols spends hours a day studying the opposition, as documented in the book 3 Nights in August.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 9:02 AM CDT reply actions 10 recs
+1
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 9, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why
Pujols is a one man wrecking crew. He does his homework and prepares himself. He is THE best player in MLB IMO. I haven’t done the research, but I sure would be curious to know if there’s a pitcher Pujols can’t hit.
The man’s stats are obscene. I love watching him at the plate, except of course against the Cubs.
Now if Soriano would prepare himself and ADJUST his swing based on the pitches, he might be able to connect. Okay, that’s a long shot I know, but I can dream.
by Swoosie on Jul 9, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish he'd watch videos of himself..............
so he sees how bad he is and WHY he’s being booed
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 9, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
If Lou wants him to rest and recover, why should Soriano go through the usual warmup routine? Doesn’t the ruin the entire point, and just waste Soriano’s time and slow his possible recovery, if that’s the goal?
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he should just show up at game time?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's what guys do on their days off yes
I don’t presume to know what pre-game workouts, routines, and excercises these guys do, both at home before the game and once they arrive.
Why would you? The indignation and outrage here is absolutely hilarious.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong...
…every position player should prepare each day the same basic way whether they are in the lineup or not (for the reason I mentioned above).
The only difference is the starters are going to get more cuts in the cage during BP.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 9, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe this is an issue...
…a baseball player should come to the park and basically prepare the same way whether he is in the lineup or not (except starting pitchers).
What would happen if the guy who was playing for Sorinao that day got hurt in the 1st inning and Soriano had to come in? Would Soriano be mentally ready if he didn’t go through his usual routine?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 9, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would Soriano be mentally ready if he didn’t go through his usual routine?
I have no idea, I’m not a major league baseball player.
Somehow I doubt you are either, and have no basis for this romanticized notion of “guys should come prepared every day!!!!” Soriano, who is in fact a major league baseball player, seemed surprised and a little miffed that he had to go through all that only to sit. I guess I’m confused why I should be mad at him for expecting a courtesy he’s apparently received his entire career.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would venture a guess that every ballplayer goes through stretching, running, throwing exercises to “get ready” for a game, whether they’re starting or not. The only difference, I suppose, between a starter or non-starter would be reps in the batting cage.
Why should Fonzie be any different? He comes off as a prima donna. And then to bitch to the press about it?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would venture a guess
That’s all anyone is doing here. Why would venture a guess and then get outraged about your guess? It’s hilarious.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I played division 1 college ball...
…and we prepared the same exact way a major league team would (starting 3 hours before the game). A position player would go throught the exact same routine whether they were starting or not. The only difference would be the group you were in for BP, and that would mean a few less swings in the cage.
I also had several teamates who were major league players, and there routines changed very little (if any) when they were in the bigs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 9, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for telling the truth...
… and exposing some who claim to know it all as, well, know-it-alls (who don’t).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not be rude here Al.
… and exposing some who claim to know it all as, well, know-it-alls (who don’t).
I wasn’t claiming to “know it all”. I couldn’t have been any more clear that I was claiming the exact opposite.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
What about this quote?
I have no idea, I’m not a major league baseball player.
Somehow I doubt you are either, and have no basis for this romanticized notion of "guys should come prepared every day!!!!"
The poster explained how he DID have a basis for that “notion”, which is hardly “romanticized”. To think that a ballplayer wouldn’t come to the park prepared to play every single day — gee, what a concept.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me bold the part you apparently missed
I have no idea, I’m not a major league baseball player.
Somehow I doubt you are either, and have no basis for this romanticized notion of “guys should come prepared every day!!!!”
The poster confirmed that he is indeed not a professional baseball player. He’s also not the poster who I replied to for the record. We have yet to receive confirmation as to his professional / amateur ballplayer status and history.
The name-calling of me as a know-it-all is pretty hilariously misplaced when what I’m saying is “We don’t know what goes on behind closed doors, why get worked up about this?”
I realize you’re desperate to prove me wrong here since I do it to you all the time and you’re trying to, what, turn the tables I guess? But in this case all I’m saying is that apparently there was something so unusual about it that Soriano got upset about it, and that this really isn’t worth getting worked up about.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have confirmation of the status claimed.
Or is that not enough for you?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not what I was talking about.
I was making a joke there that fell flat.
It doesn’t really matter, the whole appeal to authority here’s pretty flimsy either way. Alfonso Soriano still has a better idea of what the expectations are of Alfonso Soriano’s pre-game workout than anyone here, whether they played in college or not.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but...
… it’s very strange for a major league player to be quoted as saying he wouldn’t come to the park ready to play.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 10, 2009 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it a little surprising
That a 20 year old playing a 50-game season would have the same routine as a 33-year old MLB veteran who has played eight or nine 162 game seasons. Especially one playing at 80% with a bum knee.
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jul 9, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also know that superstars get special treatment
Why people are surprised when one of them says something that seems to confirm that, is beyond me.
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jul 9, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say again...
…the preparation is very very similar, but that is not the question at hand.
The issue is this; should a position player show up at the park and prepare everyday as if he was playing (whether he is in lineup or not)? I am saying the answer is a resounding yes, and that is the way ballplayers prepare. Why would a player not prepare, and than have to go in the ballgame without the proper preparation?
I can assure you, if Soriano prepares in this fashion it is unique to him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 9, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
The question at hand is actually can an every day starting position player express being a little upset when he is surprised at the last minute at being told he isnt starting that day. You think Derrek wouldnt be a little peeved if Lou told him out of the blue, right before game time, he isnt actually starting?
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To steal a quote from Ozzie Guillan...
…I make out the GD lineup!!!
Frankly, I don’t care whether Soriano is unhappy he was not notified in advance of getting a day off. Maybe, just maybe, the pampering just ain’t working with him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 13, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure who the "outraged" one here is...
…but it’s not me, dude.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are 100% correct...
….there is no reason any position player should show up to the ballpark with an attitude I am not playing today, so I don’t have to go through my normal routine in case he had to play because of injury etc..
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 9, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
some my "ventured guess" was pretty good. LOL.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so my= some my....eek
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a very good
question and I too would like to know the answer.
by sue369 on Jul 9, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I said in the other thread
is it normal for a manager to tell his normally starting players that they won’t start the next day?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Usually it is. In most cases starters assume they will be in the lineup
unless the manager is giving them a scheduled day off. Lou probably should have informed Sori a week ago that this type of thing would be happening as he tries to assist him in regaining his batting stroke. I don’t know if Soriano would have felt any better about it, but at least everyone would know what the plan is.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jul 9, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, then.
seems to me Soriano has a right to be upset. Obviously, doing it through the media is not good.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has a right to be upset...
in a “damn, I’m not playing today? That sucks” type of way, yes. Right to be upset in the way that he is, no. Absolutely not.
by kanderber on Jul 9, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The whole, “I wouldn’t have prepared” bit doesn’t sound so good.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't.
but I wonder if there are any players who DON’T have some kind of variance in their routine when they’re not expecting to play.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they do
they shut the hairy frick up about it.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 9, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doing this through the media
is a bad idea.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
He probably didn’t mean it the way that it sounds. At least, I certainly hope that he didn’t.
Sullivan really should have asked follow-up questions to give him that chance.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't know that he didn't
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 9, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sullvan? Then he should have printed that, too.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, before we start blaming the media here
THIS is the full passage:
When manager Lou Piniella spoke to Soriano last week in Pittsburgh and told him he would be giving him a few more days off, Soriano said he understood. But Soriano was miffed when he learned his name wasn’t in the starting lineup Wednesday after he had a pair of hits Tuesday night.
“That’s why I’m mad,” Soriano said. “If he had told me yesterday, then I wouldn’t come today ready to play.”
A fine thing if Lou had decided with Soto hurt, he needed Soriano’s bat in the 5-slot.
Hey, Alfonso. GET READY TO PLAY EVERY DAY!
Piniella typically gives Soriano a heads-up when he will get a day off but declined to do so this time.
Yeah, because Lou has more important things to do than burp and change the diaper of a .230 hitter.
“That’s a surprise to me today,” Soriano said. “I think he could have said to me last night, ‘OK, take a day off,’ especially because [Thursday] is an off day. I’d be like, ‘OK, I’ll take the two [days].’ But I like to know before I come here.”
So we have a longer quote…
Soriano, hitting .182 over his last 40 games, said his knee pain isn’t enough to prevent him from playing.
“I can play,” he said. “If I can play, it’s not bothering me. It bothers me if I’m not playing though.”
A quote in an obvious response to a follow-up question about the knee.
Asked if he would talk to Piniella about his complaint, Soriano simply replied: “No.”
ANOTHER follow-up question.
I get it. You hate the media.
Alfonso screwed up here.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 9, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh, I'm inclined to think this is on Soriano
Just being devil’s advocate.
It was a stupid thing for him to say, and he should be man enough to talk to Piniella, not the media.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wonder
what was left out. Again, if it’s the commonality that starting players play unless they’re told not to, I think Sori has a legitimate gripe.
He should NOT conduct it through the media, and he SHOULD go talk to Lou.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I'm so sure that Sullivan
left out the part where Soriano said he was sorry and should never have brought it up and hates himself for sucking so much and all that…
Get over it, drew. The bad guy isn’t Sullivan here.
Soriano should be doing a lot and talking to Lou is the least of it.
Maybe he has to get 24 hours notice before he talks to Lou
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 9, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying that Sullivan did or didn't leave anything out.
I wonder if there was anything.
As I said above:
He should NOT conduct it through the media, and he SHOULD go talk to Lou.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Drew's getting piled on unfairly here
I won’t deny that he tends to find others to blame for Cub transgressions – in fact, I’ve called him out on that more than once.
However, in this case, he’s stating a hypothetical, which I think is a reasonable one. And, he’s basing it on feedback that he got from a few other posters after he asked.
That doesn’t mean that he’s right, but he’s not speaking in absolutes here.
He’s not calling out Sullivan and he did say the player should go to the manager instead of the beat writer.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you trying to get quoted in another signature line? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 9, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but not the way you think.
Ballhawk Ken rocks!
;-)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 10, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sig what you did there... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 10, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you give Sullivan the benefit of the doubt?
Like, ever?
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Because not every single problem with the Cubs
can be blamed on the media, the umpires, the broadcaster or Harry Potter, which is what drew does.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 9, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes huh!
when the Cubs were struggling under Baker, it was clearly Steve Stone’s fault!
by WanderingWanderer on Jul 10, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hairy Frick
-I think I know that guy
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 9, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...hairy frick
My new favorite phrase…I’m using it, unashamed
by Wrigster on Jul 9, 2009 5:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
seems to me he should be expecting to get benched.
how could as a surprise with the way he has been playing? that’s ridiculous. if he really thinks he’s just going to be in the lineup permanently no matter how bad he plays, he needs a wake up call; hopefullly, this little fit of dismay was it.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 9, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
drat.
insert “it come”
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Jul 9, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
But that is just plain nonsense. Piniella, as manager, has the exclusive right to play who he wants, when he wants and can tell them six weeks to six seconds before game time. Otherwise, they wouldn’t even have managers and the entire charade would be like intramurals.
Is it a courtesy afforded some players for the manager to tell them of a scheduled day off? Yes. Is that courtesy afforded to all players? Absolutely not.
Soriano is angry with Piniella? Good. Perhaps it is the start of what I have been suggesting all along…that this guy’s pride and professionalism are challgened to the point that he’ll adjust his approach and become more productive. Well done Lou.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whats nonsense
Is that Soriano as a player has the exclusive right to be upset when he is benched at the last minute after he just had a great day at the plate the previous day without explanation or discussion.
Whats really hilarious is how all the people arguing the opposite would handle his/her boss telling her that the big project/task that day that they usually would handle was being given to someone else.
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
We can get him pissed enough to demand a trade. Someone might initiate a deal that could free up some of this monster contract we still owe him.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
by KedzieKid on Jul 9, 2009 9:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is complete and utter bullshit.
On his days off, he doesn’t come ready to play? What if Lou needs to him to pinch-hit? What if there’s an injury and he suddenly has to go in the game, and has less than 5 minutes to prepare? His attitude REALLY bothers me about this.
And further, in his last 57 games his OPS is .594. For comparison, that’s 37 points lower than what Jose Macias OPS’d during his time here. So, my point is, Soriano has absolutely no room whatsoever to bitch about anything related to playing time right now. Focus on how much of a failure you’ve been this year, Alfonso, not how much notice you’re given that you’re not going to be playing.
by kanderber on Jul 9, 2009 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Playing Devil's Advocate
But perhaps we shouldn’t put too much emphasis on any single word Soriano uses. English isn’t his first language.
Second, if a player is getting a day off that doesn’t just mean that he isn’t in the starting lineup. I’m sure that ballpayers do lots of prep work to prepare for the next game. A day off is also a day off from that. A bench player will prepare in a different way than a starter.
by jerry morales rules on Jul 9, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's a point as well
I wonder what “benched” means to Lou. “Will not play” or “could come off the bench”?
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is an excellent point.
I feel the same way about the Milton Bradley comments as well, especially considering Sori and MB seem to get along quite well. I’m not making any excuses for his play but reading many of his quotes supports the idea that he may be misusing his diction a bit. This gets lost in succinct journalistic prose much like sarcasm can be misinterpreted on these here boards.
Still, if he would zip his lip (and hit) to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
"I wouldn't know a steroid from a reefer." -Lou Piniella
by TheTruth11 on Jul 9, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Soriano’s choice of words was unfortunate but having him sit a day after he got 2 hits doesn’t make sense either.
And for all those who are upset over Soriano in LF let me say after yesterdays game I don’t think Jake Fox is the answer
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well . . .
after yesterdays game I don’t think Jake Fox is the answer
By that logic, neither is Fukudome. Granted, Fox is no Dome in the field, but that stuff happens.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome has played most of the season in CF
and that was his first error.
Fox has played what, two games in LF?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 9, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't laugh too hard
Not too many people were calling for Fox to be the everyday left fielder. If you think that play is support for Soriano’s fielding, that’s like saying Soriano is the:
- tallest midget
- sharpest bowling ball
- sanest mambochicken
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
what i do think supports Soriano is the fact that advanced metrics seem to counter the popular assumption that he is awful in LF.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure where I stand on those
I can’t claim that I know the metrics well enough to evaluate them. I do find it hard to believe that he’s an above-average LF-er, but I won’t speak in absolutes about it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this year
he’s just below average. Last year, he was above average. Remember, we ARE talking about LF — it’s where the NL sends its power hitters who can’t field. I’ve long said that Soriano is the best LF in the league when he’s on, but that’s somewhat akin to saying that Windows 95 is better than Windows 3.11.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GASP!
I thought the NL was made up of well-rounded PLAYERS!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Jul 9, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more than the AL.
which is the freakin’ point. But that doesn’t mean you put someone who isn’t suited for it at second.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Often times, yes. Poor fielders are sent to LF.
Again, I can’t speak well enough to the metrics, unfortunately.
I just see the routes that he takes and his reluctance to go near fences.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dno't think anyone thought Fox was going to win a gold glove
Or even be a regular LFer. But that was one play.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like Soriano has never done the same thing. LOL.
Over the course of 162 games, I bet the defense would be similar. And, if anything, I bet Fox would be giving more effort to make the tough catch than Soriano…. either diving, or at the wall, or in the corner.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh my
Over the course of 162 games, I bet the defense would be similar
I would take that bet.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you been watching Soriano play LF?
It’s quite an adventure.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
have
you ever read Jake Fox’s Baseball America scouting report? It’s some of the most damming language I have ever seen those guys use.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When guys can smack the ball around the park, but have sub-par defense....
You put them in left field. That’s why Soriano is there right now… and it’s no different logic concerning Jake Fox.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because
once again you are ignoring the fact that Soriano is not below average. You might feel that way but that doesn’t make it so.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The stats don't show lack of hustle and focus, or........
going back a step when the ball is hit in front of him, and taking a step in when a ball is hit behind him. Len and Bob have pointed this out on several occasions.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 9, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes they do
Because the stats show plays either made or not made in the zone that Soriano occupies. This correctly eliminates the bias of your eyes and gets rid of the necessity of words like “focus” “hustle” ect ect which are arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder.
The play is either made or not, the facts are blind and the results are clear. Whether people can set aside their own prejudice and accept them is the real problem.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so your telling me that stats shows the negative results of........
missing the cutoff man, not cutting off a hit to the gap to hold it to a single, not getting to a ball hit to the wall if you misjudged it, not getting to a ball in foul territory for lack of hustle?? I rest my case
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 9, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you
are telling me you can positively keep track of the amount of times he has done this vs making the correct play vs all the other LF’s in baseball?
I rest mine.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh
and they would most definitely keep track of foul balls he didn’t get to. Thats why those stats which track EVERY play are much more reliable than the amateur eyes of 1 person who sees a limited amount of plays
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
show mw the stat that documents balls he didn't reach, or
how many times he missed the cut off man or didn’t cut off a hit to the . Please show me. Can you?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 9, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dewan's plus / minus system
ZR would account for the latter, but not the former.
by Wreckard on Jul 9, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silly.
The stats can’t show those intangible things, sure. But if they were affecting the result of the plays, it’d show IN the stats themselves.
If the extra step you feel so strongly about was causing him to “suck” in the field, his stats would show him sucking in the field. They don’t.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 10, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever.
Soriano has the worst fielding % out of every qualifying left fielder in all of baseball.
Now, don’t tell me he’s not below average.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
His .953 is dead last… worse than Chris friggin Duncan for crying out loud. And, he’s made 7 errors… the highest total of errors among all outfielders in baseball. I don’t know how you could possibly paint pretty picture of him in the OF. Watch him play… and you know he stinks. Look at the stats, and you know he stinks. And it’s all magnified right now, because he’s not hitting. 30 HRs and 90 RBIs, and you could put up with that miserable defense.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You misunderstood me
Fielding percentage is virtually an obsolete stat. You wouldnt use a sun dial to tell time if you had a watch so why use this stat when we have things like UZR?
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK... fine... let's just further my point on how he's way below average.
Here are the advanced ratings among all qualified LFs in baseball:
Soriano
RngR = -1.8
ErrR = -1.1
UZR = -3.8
UZR/150 = -6.4
Negative numbers in these statistics aren’t a good thing BTW.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we both know
that these numbers come out every year not just this one. For both the last 2 years he has been above average.
So either
1- He has aged overnight and can no longer play
2- He is injured and playing
3- Its a small sample size that will even out over the course of the year
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm voting for #2 on that list.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's been injured and playing for two plus months
But, back to my original argument: Jake Fox could play equally to the way Soriano’s playing right now. It’s not like Soriano’s setting the bar very high.
And… if I came across as harsh at all, I apologize. I’m not here to be mean to anyone. Just get a little worked up sometimes.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well.....
- Its a small sample size that will even out over the course of the year
But right now or, I guess, the season so far…he’s been below average.
Which is all anyone is saying…..no?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not exactly.
There are plenty of people on this board who say “Soriano sucks, he’s always sucked and I never wanted him.”
Some of them are people who loooooved him last year and the year before.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The league has figured out Soriano
He was always whiffing at pitches when he was in NY and here in DC, but pitchers kept on trying to throw fastballs. Finally, pitchers have realized not to ever pitch him fastballs down the middle. That’s all the mystery about Sori and his poor average this season. I hope I’m wrong.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 9, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All three are probably in play, but not a absolutes
1 He has aged and is reliant upon bat speed, which may be slowing.
2 He probably does have some nagging leg injury
3 It is a small sample size and prone to improve if he can get healthy. I doubt it will even out to career averages, though.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 10, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've all seen the quotes
And so far, they appear to be wrong. Not necessarily about LF – we’ve only seen him there for one game. But, as far as I can recall, those defensive comments also suggested he wouldn’t be able to handle 3B, and he’s done a decent enough job of that.
by hmlee on Jul 9, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I particularly enjoyed
the observation that he was incapable of chewing gum and walking. Listen, he has been more than an adequate 3rd baseman. It was suggested that every other ball hit to him would end up an error. So he misplayed a hit in Wrigley on wet grass. That doesn’t make him a butcher.
BTW, a review of Baseball America’s report on Pie was certainly dead on, wasn’t it?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The report
on Pie was much less definitive than it was on Fox. Also, SAMPLE SIZE
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which report
are you referring to on Pie? He was generally acknowledged to be an outstanding player. It was dead wrong.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
don’t you think its odd that a player with Fox’s batting skills took this long to make it the pros? LF is not a demanding position and if he was even league average you would think his bat would have found him a spot if not on the Cubs then some other team would have wanted him.
The fact that none of that happened speaks volumes to how the cubs and other teams view his defense.
Soriano on the other hand with his non-diving ways has managed to be proven to be a league average and above LF.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year
Soriano is terrible in LF. That is the point. He doesn’t get to balls he should but they are not considered errors. Wrigley has a small left field. It is not like he has a wide coverage area. There is almost no foul territory which means the metrics are skewed.
As for your point about the why it took so long to appreciate Fox as a hitter, perhaps we can refect on Soto and his performance in the minors. He was a sudden star after being merely adequate for many years. It happens. Hitters adjust and sometimes it takes a while to click. He has shortened his stroke which has reduced his number of misses.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox
and Soto are very different. Fox has always been able to hit. If he had even average defense somewhere he would have been in the bigs alot sooner than this.
And the foul territory skewing the metrics? Explain this. You dont think they already take different ballpark dimensions into account?
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point about Soto
was that he suddenly became a very good hitter. Prior years showed no evidence of his abilities as a hitter. Same with Fox. Of course Soto is a competent catcher and that was he leading skill. With Fox, the catching skills were not sufficient to keep him behind the plate so they made him learn new positions which probably impacted his hitting as well as his defensive acumen.
As for metrics, Soriano is dead last in UZR for LF in the NL. While there are many different forms available, it is accepted that the defensive numbers have much more “noise” than typical offensive metrics. It makes little sense to rely on their evaluation of fielders that the observations of knowledgeable fans.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
He’s just going on the “advanced metrics”, casting a blind eye to his own observations. Isn’t that the new approach to watching baseball?
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
because i’m not arrogant enough to assume my “eye” is good enough to make any judgment of consequence
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seeing IS believing
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 9, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comical
It has nothing to do with arrogance, unless you’re now lumping all “scouts” as arrogant I suppose. I am quite confident I’ve seen enough baseball in my day to discern the difference beween a capable outfielder and a roving butcher, without the necessity of some contrived mathematical formula. And that has absolutely nothing to do with arrogance.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are a
pro scout then?
Because pro scouts seem to think Soriano can hack it in LF.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh
Show me the hands of the scouts that believe he’s a capable LF. Put the hands down of all of the Cubs scouts, and you’ll count them on one hand.
And you missed my point, you don’t need to be a scout to be able to watch and understand baseball without all of the slide-rule numbers and permutations.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are missing the point
Show me the hands of the scouts that believe he’s a capable LF.
I don’t need to. I am not the one claiming my eyes can prove he is a poor player. You show ME some scouts who say so.
Put the hands down of all of the Cubs scouts, and you’ll count them on one hand.
Well the Cubs have always had a small scouting deparment so the one hand comment doesnt suprise me, however, I’m sure Hendry had scouts watch Soriano in LF in 06 before they offered him 138 million to play the positon. In fact, they even thought he could hack it in CF. So your point seems moot.
you don’t need to be a scout to be able to watch and understand baseball without all of the slide-rule numbers and permutations.
Anyone can watch the game and feel that they understand it. However it is the very definition of arrogance to assume you know better than everyone else even when presented with neutral evidence which shows otherwise.
by CalCalender on Jul 9, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is going nowhere
But I wanted to make a couple points to you to finish up my end. First, my point about scouts is that it is my belief, and an educated one at that for a variety of reasons, that numerous scouts in MLB do not believe Soriano is a capable LF. I don’t think that is anything alarming or particularly shocking. He is generally considered to have a plus arm…and that’s it. Can he be put out there? Of course. Will he win games for you out there? Surely you jest.
Secondly, I haven’t suggested I know better than anyone…I have suggested I know what I’m talking about but that doesn’t somehow slip into suggesting only my opinion or observations are the only ones that count. I’m not concerned about being right or wrong on this point yet I firmly believe that I’m capable and qualified to state without any reservation that Soriano is not a very good outfielder. I don’t need numbers to back up that assertion nor do I think it really matters.
The arrogance thing is silly. There are number of people that contribute to this forum regularly that I believe are capable of observing and correctly analyzing the game without the necessity of quantifying how many times a guy adjust his uniform as a measurement of defensive range.
Not all, but many of these empirical numbers are nothing but noise. There is an entire world filled with people that don’t need that noise to analyze particular facets of the game of baseball…and do so correctly. Setting aside the numbers for a second and dealing strictly with Soriano’s defensive play in LF, it should be pretty clear that he has hurt this club with his defensive play in LF much more than he has helped it. If you don’t agree with that…I’m cool with it.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jul 9, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They think he hack it in LF, because they think he can hit 30 HRs a year
That’s the only friggin reason the guy is on the field. They’re not paying him $136 mil to be an outstanding left fielder. They’re paying him to hit HRs.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bah.;
doesn’t help if he kills himself on the wall.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It happens...
The grass was wet. And, I doubt on either occasion (Fox or Dome), that they would’ve been able to make a great throw.
I play CF in my softball league. We had to play a double header yesterday. I couldn’t make a rifle throw at all the entire two games, because the ball was sopping wet from rolling in the grass. Everytime I picked it up, I had to take something off my throw, just to be more accurate, because the ball was slippery wet.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 9, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that...........
we’re talking about this Soriano thing shows you the issues the team has. Not only can they not get it together on the field, their struggles are spilling over into petty, prima donna crap like this.
by jballgame on Jul 9, 2009 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Only 5 1/2 more years of this!
When he stops playing like a A-minor leaguer he can talk or get upset, but for now just shut up and play.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 9, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Circle of Anger
Fans are angry at Soriano.
Soriano is angry at Lou.
Lou is angry at the media.
Does this imply the media is angry at the fans?
by JFCubFan on Jul 9, 2009 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or
the fans are angry at the media. This is all so bewildering. What do the metrics tell us? What would Harry have done? Is the answer in Roswell, NM?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 9, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care anymore what the reason may be for Soriano's poor performance........
We’ve debated injury, lack of hustle, unable to hit a slider and on and on. The bottom line is he has sucked this year and doesn’t deserve the money we’ve paid him, even if he played up to his ability based on past performance.
Wait…..we have several players that fir this mold.
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 9, 2009 1:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Big problem
Soriano is practically crapping the bed this season. I tried to show patience with him, but it’s wearing thin in light of his comments. How can he call Bradley out for not giving 100% when he’s not wanting to be a team player himself? That makes him a hypocrite and makes you wonder if Bradley is the real problem in the clubhouse. I’d honestly hate to be in that clubhouse right now.
The bottom line is that Soriano is paid to play professional baseball. If he wants to play more regularly, he needs to make adjustments and listen to the hitting coach. Over half the season is gone now and he is showing a lackadaisical attitude. That’s not a good sign. He put together one of the best seasons of his career playing for the Washington freaking Nationals. No one is expecting him to be a 40/40 man again, but be a professional. Make adjustments and do what you have to do. If it takes all season and you show a better approach next season, then so be it. But he should quit whining because no one is going to coddle him.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 9, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the fantastic year he the Nats had something to do with it being a contact year?
ya think?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 9, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say it ain't so!
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 9, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A better Article...
Cub Fans ANGRY at Soriano and Lou….I would definitely buy that paper. Makes you yearn for the days the Yankees would take every overpriced outfielder to fill their all-star lineup. Oh where oh where are you George…we have two on our hands you can have.
Hey, Hey! Hey, Hey! Hey, Hey!
by TheCubsGuy on Jul 9, 2009 1:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
to get soriano out
you just need to throw a slider away-he swings @ it every time!
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jul 9, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What a P.O.S.
God I hate Soriano. Is it too unreasonable of me to expect him to abruptly retire to the Dominican?!?
THE…WORST…CONTRACT…IN….BASEBALL
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 9, 2009 8:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There is something strangely cathartic to me about reading BLou's views on Soriano.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 9, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THE…WORST…CONTRACT…IN….BASEBALL
Jason Schmidt. Barry Zito. Juan Pierre. Gary Matthews Jr.
Need I go on?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Jul 9, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
for actual
production value, I still say you can’t go wrong with Aaron Miles.
131 PA’s.
25 Hits
7 Doubles
6 Walks
17 Ks
4 RBIs
15 Runs
We’re talking .260 SLG. An OPS+ of 30. 32 TOTAL Bases.
2.2 million for this year, 2.7 million for next year.
If he doesn’t set foot on the field again this year, that’s $16,793 per PA. $88,000 per hit. $146,600 per run. And if he doesn’t play next year, you can more than double those numbers. Nearly $300,000 per run. Over $1,000,000 per RBI.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hand meet face
Aaron Miles — 2 year, $5 million contract. Awful contract, yes. Chump change in the grand scheme of things for the deep pocket Cubs, yes.
Alfonso Soriano — 8 year, $136 million contract. All for a guess hitting hack in his mid 30’s who swings from his asshole at every pitch.
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 9, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice language
Alfonso Soriano is largely responsible for the 2007 Division title, and less so the 2008. He has produced very well for this team, no matter how much you are prepared to ignore it.
Arguable, hits, runs and RBIs are how you judge a player on offense. I’ll bet that we’re paying way less per RBI to Soriano.
We’re also paying Miles $1.1 million per error this year.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What have you done for me lately?
Given Soriano’s attitude, not much.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Jul 9, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it sucks
he’s in the worst slump I’ve ever seen.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
give me a break what soriano has had one good month and that was early in the year give me a break
by ktowncubby on Jul 9, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would feel like a crook if i was soriano. played one month the rest garbage
by ktowncubby on Jul 9, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're fun
like the measles.
I presume you always go to work and do everything perfectly. You should get a certificate!
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have lost velocity on your fastball this week
Crikey. Alfonso Soriano is on the books for $136 friggin million. I would gladly take 3 years of nothing out of Jason Schmidt or Barry Zito or Juan Pierre or Gary Matthews instead of this 8 year albatross of a contract.
What do we do with Soriano the next 5 1/2 years?!? Do you ever think about that Al?
$136 million payroll for a .500 style ballclub. Good work Jim.
by BLou on Jul 9, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever hear of those "Bring An Ex" parties...
…where you bring along an ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend with the explicit understanding that you will NOT be going home with said ex?
Maybe at the next GMs meeting, they can have a “Bring A Bad Contract” party and see what happens.
Out of the usual suspects Al listed above, I guess I still like Soriano the best – or dislike the least might be more accurate. Except for maybe Zito. Seems reasonable that if one can think/hope that Soriano will get his groove back and go on a tear, it ought to be reasonable to expect Zito could do the same. The talent is still there. The others? Meh… although kudos for Pierre on his performance while Manny was out.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 9, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could have stopped at Barry Zito
and add Vernon Wells
If it weren't for the gutter, my mind would be homeless.
by Cubsfanatic on Jul 13, 2009 4:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm smack dab in the middle
of BLou and Drew. Soriano really does irk the hell out of me, and he SHOULD come prepared to play everyday regardless, as was stated above. I will not defend him to the death like Drew, but I don’t believe he’s THE…WORST…CONTRACT…IN…BASEBALL.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Jul 9, 2009 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Gotta agree. The not going to prepare if not starting comment
has me pretty steamed and I get really aggrevated by the years and dollars left on his deal. However, it is nowhere close to the worst contract.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Jul 10, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said...
…and frankly I have no idea who the worst contract in baseball is without knowing what every player in the league has.
Here is the big thing with Soriano; This year has been a dissappointment from a productivity standpoint, but for 07 and 08, he produced just about as advertised. Also, his streakiness and lolligagging where things the Cubs should have been well aware of, because he has been that way his entire career. Soriano is not a guy who has good baseball instincts, nor does he have a motor that is running at full speed the majority of the time. I don’t think he is this way because he doesn’t care (because I think he does), it is just the way this dude is wired.
What I find the biggest fault with is signing him to be a leadoff man with his skills and weaknesses. That was a mistake then and it is a mistake today (bad baseball judgement), and whether it was more Hendry or more Piniella, I have strongly disagreed with it from the outset.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
soriano
why does soriano think he could play anyways, this way he can sit on bench and watch how to hit a baseball by the other team.
by ktowncubby on Jul 9, 2009 10:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
please get bradley and soriano on the bench how many more double plays do we need to see before then
by ktowncubby on Jul 9, 2009 10:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe bradley is really sosa off steroids and no corked bat.
by ktowncubby on Jul 9, 2009 10:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe thats just it bradley is coming off steroids and he cant play anymore
by ktowncubby on Jul 9, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't stop now - you're on a roll!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 9, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEEDS MORE CAPS.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 10, 2009 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IS HE ERIC?
"We got some pretty good chemistry here. We got some toughness, and it's starting to show." - Lou Pinella
by Clutche on Jul 10, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The anti-eric, really.
Whispering instead of yelling.
Like that annoying gnat at a picnic.
I guess that’d make ERIC like a bear attacking our metaphorical picnic?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 10, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.... maybe we need the BCB version of Gordon Ramsay ;-)
Someone to wear a nice little white pinstripe apron, maybe one of those fancy chef hats (cubbie blue of course) and then go around from fanpost to fanpost, sampling and critiquing them…
“NEEDS MORE CAPS. NOW PISS OFF.”
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 10, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed...
NEEDS MORE CAPS. NOW PISS OFF POUND SAND.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Jul 10, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course. Brilliant, yes?
I should have thought of that sooner.
Blue Mike is Chef Gordon Ramsay. Welcome to BLou’s Kitchen!!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 10, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except
Ramsay LEAVES the restaurants he’s trying to save after a week.
I'm a Cubs FANATIC. They are my team, through thick and thin. [ibid] This is the kind of fan I am.
by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fonz
try not preparing and maybe you will hit higher than 225. boo hoo hoo. these players think they,re so priveleged
by NOMAR on Jul 11, 2009 6:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sori
soriano is an overated player
"We gotta get back to workin' like heck!"
by BBrown on Jul 11, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This entire thread is ridiculous
My entire opinion of this website is seriously degraded. I thought the ridiculousness in some of the game threads was isolated, but clearly not only have these types of people stayed, but some of the regulars are buying into it.
Soriano’s Cubs career before this year:
.292/.340/.548 for an OPS of .888 31 HR 19 SB/5 CS All-Star each year
He has been taking more pitches this year than all but one previous year. But of course he gets no credit for his improved patience, because he has been slumping. All the talk the previous years of how he should take more pitches has somehow disappeared. He is 7 of 9 on stolen base attempts, making him the best base stealer on the team. But he is now the epitome of all that is wrong with baseball.
He is lazy, and doesnt hustle, and is a prima donna, and a bad team mate, and blah blah blah
All the typical code words. It makes me sick.
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 11, 2009 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Fortunately your sickness isn't contagious
Perhaps you think Soriano is performing well enough. There is statistical evidence that he is not. Most Cub fans are unwilling to accept his refusal to adjust to an obvious pattern. It’s really that simple.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Jul 11, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Guy Who Accidentally Saved the World is mad at Alfonso Soriano
This is just lame. The guy is in a slump and needs to realize that for the best interests of the baseball team, he needs to be dropped out of the leadoff spot and perhaps given a few extra breaks while he can regroup and simultaneously rehab his supposed bad knee. And he should be mature enough to understand that. He absolutely should not be a prima donna and redirect criticizm at Lou. That’s the difference between players like Alfonso Soriano and players like (sorry to say it) Derek Jeter. Players like the latter are freaking BASEBALL PLAYERS. And possess the ability to look at things fom the larger picture. Don’t get me wrong. When Soriano is on fire…he’s on FIRE. And I firmly believe he will regain that fire in a month or so. I’m hoping that perhaps he just needs a little more tough Lou love and he’ll pull his head out of his goofy blue Hummer or whatever it’s stuck in and everything will be better. This team is well within striking distance and although I don’t like it’s current makeup as a whole, like most people, it’s biggest flaw is that it’s underperforming. But anyway back to the matter at hand, no. Soriano is not going to justify the ridiculous contract that he’s signed to but he will once again be a sparkplug and a dangerous hitter once he “adjusts the obvious pattern” as tharr put it. And I hope that he does. Not because he has a $136 million dollar contract, not because he’s spitting a few more sunflower seeds on the dugout floor that he was a month ago, but because he’s a freaking BASEBALL PLAYER and has the ability to do so.
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base." - Dave Barry
by The Guy Who Accidentally Saved the World on Jul 12, 2009 2:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I love your sig line, btw. As to Fonzie's goofy blue hummer....
He likes his car very much….
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jul 12, 2009 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember all of you
That ball players dont just have regular years and career years but they also have crappy years. It just happens. I am sure Soriano and Bradley are busting their ass to get out of it…after all its not like there are many lazy bums in the major leagues.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
by hansman1982 on Jul 12, 2009 6:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Miz cursed Soriano
On May 19th, Soriano was at a WWE event. The Miz punked him out and it was, as a wrestling fan myself, really boring and terrible, however, check the stats:
36/41 (games split)
HR 12/2
RBI: 25/7
Avg. .279/.189
OPS .913/.533
Coincidence? DAMN THE MIZ!!
Drive, Monkey Drive!
by VegasCubFan on Jul 12, 2009 6:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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