Fergie Jenkins on today's pitchers, his unbeatable stat and why he thinks today's pitchers aren't...

Fergie Jenkins on today's pitchers, his unbeatable stat and why he thinks today's pitchers aren't throwing as fast as they think they are...

almost 3 years ago spain2323 14 comments 0 recs |

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The Arm of a Pitcher

Cool video, thanks.

I wonder though, why can’t pitchers go 300 innings anymore? I understand why they don’t… suits are scared they’ll ruin their arms, but, I honestly believe most guys… if not all, can’t go 300 innnings. Is it because pitchers today throw instead of pitch? Thus putting more stress on their arms? I can see that in some cases… but not all….

What do you all think?

by TheHawkRules on Aug 11, 2009 10:40 AM CDT reply actions

I think it's a combination of things

…but your idea about throwing instead of pitching is, I believe, a big part of it. Guys throw too hard too soon.
Also though, I sometimes wonder if the 300+ inning pitchers that I grew up watching, the Carltons, Seavers, Jenkins, Ryans, etc., weren’t, after all, the exceptions. When I look back I can name a lot of promising pitchers even back then (Randy Jones, Buzz Capra, Frank Tanana, etc.) who blew out their arms at an early age and saw their careers come to an early end.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 11, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions

Charlie Lea and Mario Soto

I thought Charlie Lea could have won more over 200 games had he not gotten hurt. He threw a no-hitter and won an All-Star Game. Mario Soto would have had a shot at the Hall of Fame had he not gotten hurt. He finished in the top 10 in NL Cy Young voting four times. Soto had his best years with bad Reds teams. Those two were born in 1956 and had their major league careers end too soon in 1988.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 11, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions

Don Gullett. Gary Nolan. Steve Busby. Dennis Leonard.

Those are all pitchers from the 1960’s and 1970’s who got hurt and were never the same after. With modern arm surgeries, they might have had a shot at full careers.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 11, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Good point

I wonder when the radar gun was introduced to baseball and if there is a correlation based on that. No one knew how fast guys threw back in the day, only if their fastball was “live” and if they could control it.

Look at Greg Maddux. He was always a pitcher, not a thrower. He was pretty resilient and piled up the innings. In his prime he averaged over 7 innings pitched per start. Z is our horse and he only averages 6 IPS. And that goes back to his pitch counts. He throws too many 20+ pitch innings, Maddux was the master at 5 ot 6 pitch innings.

Also, I think the emphasis on K’s comes into play. Look at Harden, over 10 K’s per game and he never goes past 6 innings. Yes, he has overpowering stuff and will get more K’s but he needs to economize and learn to throw “out” pitches to save his arm and go deeper into games.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions

Personally I think we went too far.

Pitch counts are good. The five man rotation is good. Both of them together – too much.

It seems like despite all the extra precautions we have in place now guys just get hurt more. I dunno. Could be mechanics, could be throwing too hard, could be the strike zone is too small and the hitters have too much of an advantage. Who knows.

by cubsforever on Aug 11, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions

I think the strike zone factor is pertinent

but then again, look at a pitcher like Tom Glavine. His strike zone was so wide that he got a lot of strikes called that 99% of the others didn’t. But he was the exception, not the rule. I think the strike zone today is more pitcher friendly than hitter friendly.

I love watching replays of games from the ’60’s when the strike zone was the real one, not the one we have today. The pitchers got the strike call for balls at the letters, now they have to bring it down into the hitter’s wheelhouse. That and the lowering of the mound must have some impact.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions

I've just read speculation

That this ‘new era’ was eventually going to happen (completely unknown at the time, of course) because of the lowering of the mound in the late 1960’s

Just to summarize — it’s now harder to pitch than ever — before, the downhill motion of a pitcher gave them a distinct advantage.

Now, that ‘downhill’ pitch is more of an effort. So, eventualy — more stress on a pitcher. More blown out arms, as the years go by. I need to find this article again. When I first read it, I neglected to post it here.

Not sure if I completely agree, but I’ve never seen this POV before.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 11, 2009 1:39 PM CDT reply actions

Orel Hershiser was talking about this on a recent ESPN game telecast.

There may be something to this.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 11, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions

I think that the lowering of the mound

is right on the money. I used to throw BP on the Pony League team I used to help coach and you can tell the difference from throwing flat off the ground and on the bump. Maybe some of our BCBers that were pitchers in HS/college can offer their opinions.

Also, it’s human nature when we talk of the “old days” lol like the 60’s and early 70’s, to remember the standout pitchers of the era like Gibby and Fergie and recall their efforts. Of course those two and the other studs of that era remain in our minds and the other pitchers are hard to remember and their longevity and stats. Looking strictly at the Cubs, I think I’ll check out Kenny Holtzman and Bill Hands and the others from the late 1960’s Cubs teams and see how many innings they pitched per year in their prime and see how long their careers were.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes! That's it!

I didn’t read it, I heard it. Information overload!

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 11, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Wow

I had never heard that before but, when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 11, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions

also...

Fergie mentioned (it’s in the second half of the interview) that he pretty much never lifted weights, he did yoga and stretching and whatnot. I wonder if the way kids/teens play these days has a big effect on their later years. Just saw something (on BcB maybe?) about the number of Tommy John surgeries on teens going up an insane amount as of late. Might be that kids are hurting their arms before they’re developed enough to play 24/7, 365/year.

by spain2323 on Aug 11, 2009 1:51 PM CDT reply actions

its a huge difference

look at players like McGuire who was not known for being limber and how many times he was hurting, instead of a player who is more flexible. Lifting weights is fine, but does no good if you do not stretch it out

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 11, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions