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TONY LARUSSA 4 MANAGER
GETITDONE JIM!!!!
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 2:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He has a contract through 2010
and I suspect even if the Cubs make the playoffs he won’t be back next year but neither will he be fired. I think my
anti- Lou credentials go back further than anyone here but firing him now won’t wake up the team. While I suspect most of the players would be happy to see Lou gone I don’t see how that would wake them up.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 6:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I think the moves Hendry has done, which include extending his own contract...
…are going to make a new owner hesitate on who to get rid of. Personally, I’d send both Piniella and Hendry packing. Hendry’s extension was nothing more than a conflict of interest on his part.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 12, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
Hendry didn’t extend his own contract. He wouldn’t be able to.
And if he could, why would that be a conflict of interest?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong guy ...
Hendry needs to be fired. This team is not balanced, or built to win.
by jselinger24 on Aug 12, 2009 7:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I am in the minority here but,
I still think the last two years of the Cubs at least getting to the playoffs are because of Lou. If they had a different manager I’m not so sure the Cubs would have made it that far. Granted Lou does some things sometimes that really irk me too, but I think he does a lot more right than most managers.
by adam316 on Aug 12, 2009 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Except making the playoffs isn't the only goal when you spent $140m
The Bulls fired Doug Collins despite the fact that the team made the Eastern Conference Finals. Sometimes you need a change of leadership to make that next step.
by madcow256 on Aug 12, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Staring down from these heights, you're right
Looking up from where the team was on October 1, 2006, no way. Lou’s tenure has been tremendously successful. Yeah, we all want a World Series, and thats the standard of measurement for real success. But what are you saying, everyone in baseball should be fired other than Terry Francona and Charlie Manuel? After all, no one but those two has won a WS since Lou was hired.
by Orval Overall on Aug 12, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying that
But I don’t think holding Lou accountable if the team has 85 wins at the end of the season and misses the playoffs is insane either. If management decides that the reasons $140m couldn’t get it done were things that were out of Lou’s hands (injuries, etc) and that it was a fluke season, they should keep him. If they decided that in spite of the injuries, Lou should have been able to make the playoffs with this squad, then they should look for another manager.
Francona and Manuel have been the only managers to win World Series titles, sure. Joe Torre, Joe Maddon, and Eric Wedge have all won playoff series since then. Bob Melvin and Clint Hurdle have too, although they were fired after failing to meet expectations. A handful of other managers won playoff games the past 2 seasons as well, things that Lou hasn’t been able to accomplish.
What makes the Cubs situation different than most other teams is that we have resources that go far beyond what the majority of the teams in the league are able to leverage. $140m should buy at least 90 wins, which may or may not be enough to make the playoffs. Somebody has to take the fall for that. Maybe it will be Lou, maybe Hendry, maybe we can just blame God for the injuries . . . but in no way do I think Lou should be exempt from any criticism because of what happened the past 2 seasons.
by madcow256 on Aug 12, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what Francona and Manuel have had that Lou doesn't?
Elite offensive talent on their 40-man roster.
Manuel can put a lineup out there every day that includes Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins. Francona could pencil in Manny and Papi.
Our “star” players are the equivalent of the complementary players on BOS and PHI – the Mike Lowells and Jacoby Ellsburies. Ye,s, stars in their own right, but not cornerstone offensive players.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 12, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you come to that conclusion, than I suppose Hendry should be the fall guy . . . which I'm okay with
But you can’t say that about all 7 of the teams who have won a playoff series the past 2 years. At this point I think most of us would consider that an accomplishment for the franchise. Losing in the World Series would be even better, and that’s something that Clint Hurdle did before losing his job 1 1/2 years later.
by madcow256 on Aug 12, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Self grammar police
‘than’ should have been ‘then’
by madcow256 on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I could give a crap about an NLCS appearance as opposed to an NLDS appearance.
Yes, a pennant would be nice. But I’ve survived NLCS losses three times already. And I don’t recall ’em all that fondly.
At some point, someone should have taken Hendry aside and explained that for the price of 2 $12M roleplayers, he could have signed Alex Rodriguez.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 12, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my gripe, too
At some point, someone should have taken Hendry aside and explained that for the price of 2 $12M roleplayers, he could have signed Alex Rodriguez.
Not so much the Lee, Ramirez, etc. contracts. Even Soriano’s – I understood that one.
Aaron Miles, Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The list goes on.
Bobby Howry, Neifi Perez, Henry Blanco, Scotty Eyre, LaTroy Hawkins, Jacque Jones, Jeromy Burnitz…. everyone gets to be a millionaire!
Even you, John Mabry! How’s about we sign you away from STL and double your salary after that .240/.295/.407 season you just posted!
And how much should we pay Blanco? Well, figure out what the highest-paid backup catcher in the league gets…. and triple it! It’s only a million here and a million there, right? Those things don’t add up!
Unless, of course, you’re thinking of signing Carlos Beltran. $10M for Jason Marquis is nothing, but $18MM for 27-year-old Beltran is out of the question.
Better to wait a year, then offer the exact same deal Beltran got from the Mets to Alfonso Soriano, and just hope like hell he can play CF at a MLB level!
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 12, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on this one
We don’t seem to understand that paying millions for backups, middle relievers, and 4th/5th starters doesn’t make a lot of sense when the AAA fill-ins do the job often nearly as well for much less money.
by madcow256 on Aug 12, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless, of course, you’re thinking of signing Carlos Beltran. $10M for Jason Marquis is nothing, but $18MM for 27-year-old Beltran is out of the question.
Better to wait a year, then offer the exact same deal Beltran got from the Mets to Alfonso Soriano, and just hope like hell he can play CF at a MLB level!
that made me sad
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Some issues? Yes, but lets not forget where we came from and what we have accomplished the last two years. Its not too much for Lou to ask a middle reliever to not walk 4 guys in an inning or for his closer to not lead the league in relief home runs allowed. I put more blame on the players than on the coach and GM.
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 12, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1,000
“Its not too much for Lou to ask a middle reliever to not walk 4 guys in an inning or for his closer to not lead the league in relief home runs allowed”
— Especially when that middle reliever is the guy almost everyone on this site wanted to be the closer in the first place. I agree with Al’s take this morning that Lou should’ve had a much quicker hook with Marmol, but even so its hard to deny that one of the biggest reasons this team isn’t in its 07/08 form is that guys like Marmol are nowhere close to the same form.
by Orval Overall on Aug 12, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is just a bad baseball team for the money.
They aren’t a terrible team, and there have actually been some pleasant surprises this year, like Fukudome’s sudden adequacy and D-Lee’s resurgence – I didn’t think he had one month left in him like this, let alone three – but all in all, Hendry’s horrendous offseason left this team weakened, while our NL competitors improved and continue to improve.
Hendry needs to realize that he’s competing not only with STL and MIL, but also with PHI, LAD, and heck, with BOS and NYY. If he’s spending $130M+ on his roster, it damn well better look like an elite team. And sadly, even the best players on this team are “complementary” players for a truly elite team.
Last winter, Hendry took a look around the division and decided that he was cool with standing pat — and then went one further and actually made moves that he knew would hurt the team’s chances in 2009. Baffling stuff.
And it’s only going to get worse when Rich Harden walks at the end of this year. Don’t hold your breath about 2010 being any better – they’re going to be a somewhat-over-.500 team with serious weaknesses and a boatload of ridiculous contracts to wait out.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 12, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's what you call front office incompetence
You don’t tear out the soul of a 97-win team and expect to see better results. We essentially did another Brock for Broglio trade with St. Louis, only this time it was through Cleveland as a proxy. If DeRosa resigns in St. Louis for cheap, then it’s a stinking pile of crap reminder that the franchise has been haunted by front office incompetence for decades. I’m not going to say every move made by Jim Hendry was bad, but his house of cards came crumbling down.
1) Signed Alfonso Soriano through 2014 when he was 30 years old: Hello Jim! He’s 30. Five years would have been perfectly fine. It’s not like you were going to be bidding against New York for him because they were eager to get rid of him years ago.
2) Career year cash in for Ryan Dempster: We’re grateful for what Ryan Dempster did, but the contract Hendry gave him was ridiculous. The sad thing is Kerry Wood was willing to give the Cubs a hometown discount. Keeping Wood and letting Dempster go in free agency would have been the best move even though Wood hasn’t been that great this year. They could have traded Wood and probably got Heath Bell for him before the trade deadline. Oh boy…
3) I like Paul Manieri too, but…: Offering a NTC to an unproven two-sport star is incredibly stupid. Even more stupid, you go after the guy who drove the New York Mets nuts by blowing game after game.
4) Extending a contract too early: Lou Piniella did not deserve his contract extension before the start of the playoffs. Going three and out like they did would have made it much easier to part with him.
I could go on and on. One of the sad things about this world is that the mistakes you make outweigh all the things you did right. If Lou Piniella has to go, so does Jim Hendry. It won’t be a fun ride while we wait for this team to be competitive again.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 13, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stinking piles of crap
are exactly what is embodied in this post.
If you think the DeRosa deal was the equivalent of Brock for Broglio, your baseball IQ is zero. Perhaps even below it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You simply can't help yourself.
At long last, have you no decency?
How many times must you be objectively proven wrong before you stop throwing ad hominems and insults around?
It’s like arguing with a 6-year-old.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 13, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, arguing with people like you
is like arguing with a 6-year-old. Because you apparently have a 6-year-old-like crush on a certain player.
If you agree and think a comparison between DeRosa and Lou Brock is apt, then … well, Dr. Freud would have a field day with you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 3:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He made moves that he knew would hurt the team's chances in 2009?
Are you out of your skull?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He absolutely did.
Trading Mark DeRosa for prospects is a “this will hurt in the short term, but help in the long term” kind of move.
Do you honestly believe that getting Stevens, Archer and Gaub for DeRosa would help the 2009 squad?
If so, explain. And as you are well aware, “trading DeRosa allowed Hendry to sign Bradley” is a fallacy. DeRosa was only owed $5M, most of which Hendry immediately spent on Miles, Gathright, Gaudin and Bako.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 13, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you call him up and ask him
if he knew these moves would hurt the team. Otherwise, how would you know that? Are you a mindreader? Are you Hendry’s psychiatrist? Is Hendry some sort of Cardinals interloper?
Like I said, it appears Dr. Freud could fill a few journals analyzing you.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 3:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you dense?
In what universe could trading Mark DeRosa for three pitchers who were assigned to the middle rungs of the minor league system, 2 of whom had very little chance of seeing Wrigley in 2009, help the 2009 team?
Teams trade starting position players for prospects all the time. They do not do so in order to get better in the short term.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed completely.
Lou doesn’t do the insanely counterproductive things that Dusty used to do. He puts the players in a position to win baseball games…. and yes, they fail at a ridiculous rate.
In the end, that’s primarily on Hendry, who decided that getting 3 middle relief prospects was worth jettisoning a run-producing middle infielder. But hey, in 2012, maybe one or two of our middle relievers will be slightly cheaper! That would be fricking sweet. I guess Hendry would have the last laugh then.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 12, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could have Dusty back
Lou is the best manager this franchise has had in 20 years. Do you really want Dusty or Don Baylor or Jim Esign back??? Should he quit riding the Marmol train…..yes…..has he been handcuffed by the roster at times…..absolutely!!! Injuries are part of the problem but the major problem is that Hendry went overboard trying to fix the roster in the off season. Miles & Gathright were a waste of time and money and Heilman was not the answer in the pen. You can gripe all you want about overpaying Soriano, Bradley, Zambrano & Dempster…..but our payroll is not the problem. Getting Baker & Grabow was a step in the right direction. Now they need to get healthy & ditch some dead weight (Miles first please) and see if this team can play the way we all thought they could.
by Crazy Uncle Lou on Aug 12, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgive me, but I have to ask
Why did you direct your reply to D98, who is clearly supporting Piniella?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Lou is the best manager we've had in 20 years
I disagree if you think we couldn’t do better though.
by madcow256 on Aug 12, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd vouch for Brenly
I think he would give this team a competitve edge that just isn’t there with Lou
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
by cubswgnrocks on Aug 12, 2009 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but could he really do anything with this offense?
These players are just not very good. Scratch that – they’re all fine baseball players, but they isn’t an elite superstar offensive talent among them.
I don’t know how Al can say “this one’s on you, Lou”, when the team seems to be congenitally incapable of scoring runs. You can’t win 2-1 and 3-2 every day. Heck, 2 or 3 runs won’t win often at all.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 12, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nuts
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 12, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why am I so completely not surprised by this post?
Maybe we should just fire the Cubs mascot, or Mayor Daley, or Ron Santo, or Billy Goat Breeders. or damn it… there’s got to be some quick and easy fix for the latest round of disappointments right? Can’t we just fire someone and make it all better?
by DisCUBbobulated on Aug 12, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree with firing Mayor Daley.
Imprisoning, even.
(Sorry, Al. I’ll stop here. Couldn’t help myself, though.)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If not Lou...
then who?
go with a “proven big name hire” like LaRussa? if his contract is up (just for argument’s sake) Lure Bobby Valentine from Japan?
go with a “first time younger manager” like Pat Listach or Ryno?
go with someone who has some experience like Bob Brenly or Alan Trammell?
Bob Melvin? Manny Acta?
I’m just throwing names out there. Whether they are good fits or not.
by FloridaCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, the team's three games back, one in the loss column.
So I’m not really sure it needs “waking up” to quite that extent. (The Brewers or Reds, one could argue, are a different story.) I’m not saying Lou hasn’t made some forehead-battering mistakes of late, but I think calling for his dismissal is a little extreme.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 12, 2009 4:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
DEPRESSED ...
Is what I am after the Wednesday night game …..
by cubs north on Aug 12, 2009 10:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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