Lou Piniella, This One's On You: Bullpen Mismanagement Sends Cubs To 4-3 Loss
by Al Yellon on Aug 12, 2009 7:30 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintWas Lou sleeping in the dugout during the eighth inning? Or for that matter, for the entire game?
Let's reconstruct Carlos Marmol's disastrous eighth inning, in which he wound up walking in a run which gave the Phillies a 3-2 lead. He walked the leadoff hitter, Carlos Ruiz, then got Greg Dobbs and Jimmy Rollins on fairly deep fly balls. By that time he had thrown 13 pitches, only seven of them strikes.
Why wasn't John Grabow warming up right then, considering that after Shane Victorino, THREE tough lefthanded hitters were to follow? Lou has yanked pitchers in the past, well before they needed to be in some cases, for the platoon advantage. Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Raul Ibanez are three of the best LH hitters in the National League. But no one got up in the left-field bullpen.
Thus when Marmol hit Victorino (on a 1-2 pitch), no lefthander was ready to go.
Then when Marmol walked Utley, still no lefthander was ready to go.
So while Marmol was walking Howard to force in the tying run, only then did Grabow hurriedly get up and get ready. Too late, unfortunately; Grabow did come in after throwing only a handful of warmup pitches and struck out Ibanez, but the Phillies had the lead.
What if Grabow comes in to face Utley? Maybe he gets him and the game stays tied, and then Milton Bradley's clutch 9th-inning single wins it. It's possible, of course, that Brad Lidge isn't pitching in the 9th in a tie game, but maybe the Cubs win some other way. And incidentally, next time you complain about Kevin Gregg blowing saves, Lidge has seven of them this year, leading the major leagues and sports a ridiculous 7.36 ERA.
And at this point, Carlos Marmol can't be trusted in the eighth inning any more; he's got to be used only in low-leverage situations in blowouts. Give the eighth-inning job to Angel Guzman (who threw two solid innings last night).
I've got more, but there's too much to squeeze in here above the fold.
The Cubs lost to the Phillies in 12 innings 4-3, after Kevin Gregg gave up his MLB-leading (among relievers) 11th homer of the season. There's more Lou blame to lay: why was Aaron Miles in the game pinch-hitting for Guzman in the 10th inning? Miles came into the game 2-for-14 as a pinch-hitter. I'd have rather seen Koyie Hill up there. Or Aramis Ramirez -- seriously, if Ramirez isn't OK to pinch-hit in that situation, which called for him even though his shoulder is barking at him, he needs to go on the DL. It was laughable that Charlie Manuel felt he had to pull the right-handed Tyler Walker for Scott Eyre right there, because Manuel must have known Lou wouldn't call on Ramirez. Miles cooperated by swinging at Eyre's first pitch and grounding into a force play.
Can we take up a collection? I'd guess that by the end of this homestand, five more games, between the (approximately) 200,000 people who will come into Wrigley Field by Sunday, and everyone here at BCB, we could collect enough money to pay off the second year of Miles' contract, give the money to the Cubs, and then they could just release him. I'm not going to get into the "worst free-agent signing" debate about Miles, because clearly, the 25th man on the roster isn't going to make a difference in many games.
But he did last night, and the Cubs have to have five or six people in the minor league system who could play better just by accident. Andres Blanco is eligible to come off the disabled list next Wednesday (the 19th), and maybe then Jim Hendry can cut the cord on Miles.
All of this ruined an outstanding outing by Rich Harden, who retired the first sixteen batters he faced before walking Ruiz in the sixth, and then, one out later, giving up a no-doubt-about-it homer to Rollins that cut through the teeth of a pretty good wind blowing in. Here's another one on Lou: why wasn't Harden at least allowed to start the eighth inning? He did allow two more baserunners in the seventh, but had thrown only 87 pitches, and the bottom of the Phillies order was due up. Why not give Harden at least a chance to go eight?
It also spoiled another fine day from Milton Bradley, who had two hits, drove in the tying run in the ninth and gave the Cubs a shot at winning the game by stealing only his second base of the season when Derrek Lee struck out in that inning. If Jake Fox could have driven the ball just a bit farther past Victorino that inning, we'd be talking about a dramatic Cubs victory. Bradley also made three fine catches in right field, as Jack Brickhouse might have described them: "plucking the balls off the tops of tall blades of grass out there!" Bradley seems energized since moving to the #2 spot in the lineup -- keep up the good work, Milton.
The night also featured, for the second day in a row, an umpire-reviewed replay of an apparent home run, by Carlos Ruiz in the top of the ninth. Third base umpire Dale Scott signaled home run on a ball that was at least ten feet on the foul side of the left-field foul pole -- the fan who caught it was in section 101, clearly on the foul side of the line. The umpires, reviewing a HR call for the first time in Wrigley Field history, went through the Cubs dugout to watch replay, came back and correctly ruled it foul. Ruiz then grounded out.
Non-baseball incident of interest: about an hour before game time, a couple of men were arrested for allegedly selling counterfeit tickets outside the bleachers near the corner of Waveland and Kenmore. This arrest took no fewer than nine police cars and a police scooter, and a third man was talking to the police -- apparently, one of the men arrested had the third man's cellphone. This got the third man carted away, also.
Fortunately for the Cubs, all of the teams they are chasing in the division and wild-card races -- the Cardinals, Giants and Rockies -- also lost games at home last night (can someone explain to me how the Pirates can beat the Rockies in Denver, but the Cubs can't?). Thus, the Cubs lost no ground to any of them, and still trail by only three games in both races. There's still plenty of time to catch up.
But they had better start now, and the manager had better get his head on straight again.
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This one hurt
Aaron Miles NEEDS to be DFA’d. Ok, so we need a lot more than that, but there is a good place to start
churchofbaseball.com
I'll add $30.
There! We’ve got $100 in five minutes. This ought to be easy!
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
just let me know where to send it. I'll even pitch in extra to get him a bus ticket back to wherever he's from
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
I'm broke as a joke and would still gladly not pay my phone bill to chip in.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
he probably
can drive there given he’s made a few million and most likely has multiple cars
I'll add $100 myself.
Visit bloggingthebracket.com, SBNation's bracketology/hoops rambling site!
by Chris Dobbertean on Aug 12, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I am broke
And I would give 10$ to this cause
Tweeting about the Cubs most of the time from @jmkobus
Shit
If it means getting him off the roster, I’ll sell the rest of my tickets for this year. That should add $ 1000 to the pot.
by Southside Steve on Aug 12, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I really don't get the Marmol love from Lou
Even last year there were plenty of signs of trouble and Marmol’s biggest problem is the thing Lou hates the most
giving up walks ( and hitting a lot of batters). I wish I could be a fly on the wall when Lou, Rothschild and Trammel discuss him . Also Lou is usually too quick to pull the trigger and has pitchers warming up at the slightest sign of trouble. More fun is that Guzman & Gregg won’t be available today assuming Lou is sane.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Lou's bullpen mismanagement has gotten to the comical stage.
9 blown saves between Marmol and Gregg.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
He needs to remember this ISN'T the Marmol of Last year!!!
I was so frustrated watching Marmol walk this game away. Lou bitched about not having enough lefties in the pen, has the PERFECT time to use one and doesn’t. You’re right Al, this game was on Lou.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
And why isn't he the Marmol of last year?
Lou’s absurd overuse.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Well, I think it's between the ears, personally.
I think his head is so messed up now that he is totally fighting himself.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
yes. i really think the turning point
was his humiliating blown save in the WBC. i think it shook him. and his flailing delivery gives him lots of room to make mistakes. and the overthrowing. alas.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Aug 12, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
He started to go down that path last year...
…until he got his confidence back in the ASG.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
right
once he got his rest after the ASG
oh wait… no you said… “confidence”…. nevermind my bad
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
And his awful delivery
No consistency can ever be established with that spasmodoic delivery and landing of his
by stuartscottslefteye on Aug 12, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't think so...
…I think it is a classic case of the “yips”.
He has the pitcher’s version of Chuck Knoblock (sp) disease.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think the love...
…comes from the fact that Marmol is virtually unhittable when he is on. Lou also knows their chances of winning anything are reduced if Marmol doesn’t find himself and that is hard to do if he doesn’t pitch in game situations. With as good as he was in 07 and 08, it is awful hard to not think he may regain his previous effectiveness.
With that said, there does come a time when you have to go in a different direction and I understand why many are a tad bit pissed about the garbage outings we keep seeing from Marmol. I like Piniella and I think he is a good manager, but it is hard for me to argue with folks that say he isn’t the same manager he was several years ago. Some nights he is sharp as a tack, and others do leave something to be desired.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
@#$% @#$%@ @#$%# @*&$#
Ahhh, now I feel better, hey, just a question, how many times of late has Al been forced to title his recap, Lou This Ones on You?
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
Al
My cap’s off to you. After last night’s game, the last thing I would want to do is write a recap. I don’t know how you do it. Also, the Cubs’ bullpen now features the individual leaders in hit batters and homeruns among relievers.
Marmol leads HBP among ALL Major League pitchers....
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
If he does that for the full season...
… he will be the first pitcher who is a full-time reliever to ever lead ANY league in HBP.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So we're leading in THAT category! Nice!
Grr…
by stuartscottslefteye on Aug 12, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
The username and icon crack me right the hell up, FYI.
Mad props.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
by AndrewJStone on Aug 12, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I will not contribute a penny to any collection
(I know you’re joking, Al, but let me rant for a second)
We pay our time, money and energy. Every Cubs game we watch is time away from our families, away from good books, other TV shows, household chores.
If they can’t do any better than Miles, then to hell with them. Next year, I will find other things to do with my time.
And if they somehow make the playoffs and he is on that roster… then I call upon all my fellow posters to unleash hell.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 12, 2009 7:45 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I was joking...
… sort of.
I could bring a large plastic jar to the ballpark tonight.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know you were joking
And if I didn’t have a baby on the way, I’d contribute this week’s paycheck. (Not sure the wife would agree… she’s a Cards fan and might pay for us to keep him)
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
It could be done symbolically
Take the donations as a means of letting people voice their opinion about Miles, but give the money to a charity.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
Wow!
$2 million for Project 3000! They’d be thrilled!
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, if the bucket boys have been banned
they might be willing to part with those. Then you’ll have overflow buckets.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
You know...
… I haven’t heard the bucket boys around lately. Maybe those buckets ARE available.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I didn't hear them last night
3-4 of those size buckets would help fill the coffers.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Miles would fit in one of those buckets.
Slap a lid on it, toss it into lake Michigan and let it float away until some beachcomber finds it washed up around Mackinac a week later, pops the top and expects to be granted three wishes because he just found a leprechaun.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 12, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe one of those wishes...
… could be for the Cubs to win the World Series.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah but...
It’s genies that pop out of bottles and grant wishes – not leprechauns.
And we think that WE’RE disappointed in Miles, think of that poor misbegotten wretch who finds him?
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 12, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
"Everyone's always after me Lucky Charms!"
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Hey! Don't send your garbage to Michigan! We get enough of Canada's.
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
Huh?
They started last night around 10:15 or 10:30; it sounded like they were right on Waveland by Kenmore. I told my wife that I hope they have an 11:00 noise curfew or something like that; if I had to put up with that sound outside my door every night I’d go nuts.
Rec'd +oo
This is what we all should be thinking right about now. The Cubs will still see 3 million-plus people at the gate no matter what. They’ll still sell millions of shirts and paraphernalia. Concession stand sales will not diminish. When they see a drop in any of these sales, they’ll see the anger.
I will not donate to the proverbial jar because Miles, et al, make a hundred times more money than me and they can pay their own g-d way out of my beloved team.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
any chance
that the cubs send him down to work on his pitching or is it to late in the season, becuase Marmol just hasnt looked good at all, and on a good note Milton had a pretty good game
Marmol...
… would have to clear waivers before being sent down. He wouldn’t clear.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The solution isn't to release Marmol
it’s to FIX him. The potential is there.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Yes, I agree, but...
… the point is, he can’t be sent to Iowa to fix things. Thus, he has to be used only in blowouts till things get fixed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why isnt...
Our pitching coached being discussed?? Seriously, that is his job to fix broken pitchers, all he seems to do is take good pitchers and break them.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Marmol looked really sharp an outing or two ago
how does he go from good to bad game by game? Does he need to pitch every day?
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
DGU's head
just exploded. :P
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I believe dartmouthcubsfan was championing that cause.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
sorry
initials are too similar. :D
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
We've both been on that cause
but DCF has been more able and comprehensive in defending the POV.
Got it, DCD? :)
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Fine, fine.
I’ll give you a contributing writer credit.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
For the same reason
our pitching coach is not discussed when talking about the successes he’s had (Dempster, Wells, etc.). If you don’t give him credit for that, you can’t give him blame for anything else.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
c'mon
he does not get credit for Dempster and Wells. Dempster gets credit because he worked his ass off—literally dropping 30 or so pounds and then changing his glove action. Wells—he has never worked under Rothschild and is pitching the same as he did in the minor leagues. LR did nothing for either of these 2 players.
this makes no sense....
and i’m not usually one to agree with NBF
but you can’t have it both ways. Its the same type of argument revolving around Lou when the Cubs were winning the last two years. He got all the credit and none of the blame
Now the exact opposite is having he’s getting all the blame and none of the credit.
The bottom line is you either subscribe to the idea that the coaches have a lot of impact and thus you should give them credit for the successes and blame for the failures, or you subscribe to the idea that they have very little impact and its all on the players
you can’t just pick and choose based on biased anecdotal evidence on when to give credit and blame…. i mean… you can… its just not rational
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
wait a minute
I replied to 2 specific examples and it’s not rationale?
You think Rothschild gets credit for Wells when he has never coached him? And he gets credit for Dempster who worked his butt off physically and made an off-season tweak with his glove?
I agree with the “all or nothing,” but these 2 examples do not scream for credit to be given to Rothschild. He had no impact on wither player. Am I off-base with these 2 players?
i'm of the belief
he had no impact on either player…. nor does he have impact on the others…
but again i’m not a big believer in coaching make much of a difference unless its quantifiable (like a guy teaches a specific pitch)
Dempster’s tweak with his glove may have been mentioned by Rothschild, Larry could’ve mentioned something to him about pitches being tipped etc… i dont know
i was more ridiculing the idea that you can arbitrarily pick out which times a coach gets credit and which ones he doesn’t. I don’t see how you can rationally do that
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
ok, I understand you better
I didn’t single out getting any credit or not.
I think my displeasure for LR is well documented in this thread alone. I repsonded to NBF stating that our pitching coach is not discussed when talking about the successes he’s had (Dempster, Wells, etc.). If you don’t give him credit for that, you can’t give him blame for anything else
I did not give him credit for anything and most definitely those 2 guys mentioned. I don’t think he’s done a good job-pretty much average to slightly below. He has electric arms/stuff guys throwing for him. It’d be like saying Joe Girardi is the best power hitting teacher/manager in MLB because he has 7 guys with 15 or more HR’s. That’s not on Joe, it’s a function of who is hitting for him.
I agree with this...
i dont think coaches at the MLB level can have a huge impact on a players talent, but they definitely can be there to tweak things they see when a pitcher struggles right?
Marmol’s struggles are pretty obvious and the cause of it is pretty obvious, he is over throwing and his left shoulder is flying open. Thus all the pitches ending up in the left handed batters box. So you tell me can Rothschild not see that or is Marmol to stubborn to change? If that is the case he is a plague and needs to find a new team.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
and the cause of the mechanics breakdown
is FATIGUE
you can’t make a guy un-tired or “fresh” by pitching him to death
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, Dempster learned a new pitch with the Cubs
when he was a reliever. He learned the splitter. As a reliever, he always threw out of the stretch, never the windup.
If the offseason when he was preparing to become a starter, it was brought to his atention that the split grip was visible to the hitter from the wind-up. He came up with the glove flip to disquise the grip out of the windup. Essentially, he always starts with the split grip and changes the grip with the flip.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Demp was as starter with the Marlins and Reds.
He had TJ surgery soon after he joined the Reds and they released him.
The Cubs signed him in 2004 on a 1 year deal with an option. He rehabbed and started in the minors on his rehab assignment. He was activated from the DH and used as a reliever for the remainer of the 2004 season with the Cubs.
The Cubs picked up his option and he prepared as a starter in ST 2005. He was moved to the bullpen because they literally had no on else to close games.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you referring to...
…Larry (take your base) Rotthschild?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Seeing this awfense we've been playing lately....
….I’m not expecting a whole lot of blowouts, Al. :(
"Awfense" -- love it
Presuming that wasn’t a typo, it’s a great “portmaneau” word – Awful + Offense.
What about the DL and rehab assignments in the minors?
Been done for others I think…
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
like aaron miles!
i believe he had a case of hyperextended suckage!
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
In his case, the DL and the rehab assignment don't seem to have solved
anything.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
guess he needs more rehab time...
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
You wanna fix him?
How about letting him deliver the ball the same way he delivered the ball last year? Problem solved. They tried to fix something that wasn’t broken… and broke it.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
As i said above...
This is why i blame our pitching coach, seems like this happens to all of our pitchers.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Rothschild
is a total bum of a pitching coach. The Cubs pitchers under his regime have all had problems with COMMAND. He cannot get it fixed, period. He should have been fired far before Gerald Perry was let go.
Psst...we're 5th in the NL in ERA.
We were 3rd last year.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Yea...
But hang on a sec, we went out and bought good pitching. It seems all the young talented pitchers we start with, start out strong and once they struggle, they disappear. Correct me if i am wrong?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
how exactly did we buy the good pitching?
who did we add through FA to the team from last year?
Zambrano – home grown
Harden – acquired via trade
Lilly – FA signing in ‘06-’07 offseason
Wells – home grown
Dempster – re-signed
Marmol – home grown
Guzman – home grown
Gregg – acquired via trade
Grabow – acquired via trade
Spellcheck – home grown
Stevens – acquired via trade
Heilmann – acquired via trade
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
4 out of 12
homegrown players means we had to “buy” our staff either through trading assets or FA.
well...
its 5
and my guess is that number is fairly consistent across the league’s better teams
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed
you have to in this era of baseball.
I differ on Wells, he’s not totally homegrown because we are lucky to have him after losing him the the Rule 5. I can see your numbers, though.
what????
he was in our organization for all 6 years in his career
how the heck is he not home-grown
6 of his 700 innings have been outside a Cubs uniform
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand your point
didn’t you read that?
I don’t count him as home grown as we blew it and got lucky. He shouldn’t be on our team, in my opinion.
I get your take and I disagree. It makes no difference to the point of the discussion.
you understand
that this rule V thing happens all the time, right?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks Drew
yes I do. Did you think Wells isn’t worthy of being placed on our 40 man roster given he’s inthe running for ROY?
That means the Cubs braintrust didn’t think he was worthy. We got lucky Wells is still with us.
but players
develop at different rates.
From Baseball Reference.com:
December 6, 2007: Drafted by the Toronto Blue Jays from the Chicago Cubs in the 2007 rule 5 draft.
April 16, 2008: Returned (earlier draft pick) by the Toronto Blue Jays to the Chicago Cubs.
He wasn’t called up to the active roster till May of 2009 (except being a late season call up in 2008) and started May 8th.
So he’s drafted in 2002 and makes his way around the minors till 2007, when he’s picked up by the Blue Jays and makes one appearance before going back down to the minors, and then returned to the Cubs a year later. That screams “late development.”
If there’s ANYONE out there who thought that Randy Wells would be an able starting pitcher before he actually became an able starting pitcher (other then his mother) I’d like to see them raise their hand. He was a desperation call up to replace a pitcher on the DL. And had Harden not gotten hurt right before Z came back, Wells probably would have been back in the minors then.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
what's your point?
I don’t disagree with anything you wrote and hadn’t previously. He really isn’t a “late developer” as his stuff is the same as it has always been. He just doesn’t light up the radar gun, so he is not thought of as a top guy. I would say he didn’t just “develop” now, but was finally given a chance to see if his stuff works. We were wrong originally and the Blue Jays were wrong too.
We are lucky to have him. Imagine had the Astros had the sense to keep Santana protected or the Twins not the smarts to keep him on the active MLB roster. We lucked out, good for us and good for the Cubs.
If the point is “Wells is HOMEGROWN,” then fine I’ll concede.
Actually Wells is not a late developer.
He simply didn’t start pitching until he was in the middle of his minor league career.
He seems to have learned the craft of pitching very quickly.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
yep
that’s what I wrote—he isn’t a late developer. I didn’t want to go into the detail for Drew about his minor league career when he wrote that he started in ’02. Thanks for pointing it out more succinctly than I could have.
but you're the one
complaining that the Cubs didn’t see his development properly.
That means the Cubs braintrust didn’t think he was worthy. We got lucky Wells is still with us.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
they didn't
when they left him off the 40 man. We got lucky.
Actually, the Cubs were correct.
They didn’t put Wells on the 40 man roster because they didn’t think he was ready to spend the entire season on a MLB 25 man roster.
The Jays made the same determination and returned Wells to the Cubs.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
don't know about learned either
growing up he was a pitcher also, just was drafted as a position player as it seemed more expedient at the time.
True, but "it" guys and valued pitchers/players
with expecations aren’t usually exposed. If Cubs management thought he’d become close to what he’s offered this year, he would’nt have been left unprotected.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
he was still drafted by the cubs
and stayed with toronto for only 1 year
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I see your point, but the criteria are a little wavy.
Dempster was re-claimed after injury and then re-signed. Not system grown, but a shrewd project by managment. Zambrano re-signed as well, but was developed through the system.
Wells made his major league debut with the Blue Jays. Drafted by the Cubs, but allowed to be rule V’d. Not a sign he was valued by the organization.
Stevens was acquired in a trade to bolster the arms in the system, excelled, and was called up. Not drafted by the Cubs, but played in the Cubs minor league system.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
hmmm
don’t know if you should qualify wells as a home grown though. lots of stories abound that he learned the cut fastball with his (albeit short) time in the Toronto organization.
That's a pretty short time to learn a new pitch
I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it seems tough.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, what Dartmouth said.
And could you be more specific? You’re referring to…Wuertz?
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did you read my post, Dave?
the Cubs pitchers have all lacked COMMAND. His job is to make the guys better under his tutleage (see Dave Duncan).
He does not control ERA. We walk too many guys and miss too frequently with fastballs, don’t you think?
Aren't command and ERA at least somewhat related?
If all of the pitchers under his regime (as your post seems to indicate) had such terrible command, how are the Cubs, as a team, producing this very impressive ERA (this season and last)? Lucky?
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because
they have some superior secondary pitches. And we are among the league leaders in K’s.
Command and ERA are totally separate discussions. Grabow bailing out Marmol keeps the Team ERA in check, but certainly doesn’t bail out Marmol’s lack of command.
My opinion is LR is not a great coach—just average to slightly below.
OK, OK...now that I look at it more closely...
….I see the Cubs do rank 4th in the NL in walks. That’s bad. And they ranked 10th last year (not bad) and 4th in 2007. Do I really want to look at 2006? Oh OK: FIRST PLACE!
So, yeah, command has certainly been a problem. But they’ve done well in other categories, so I’m not sure it would be fair to fire Rothschild on that alone.
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cubs have always
drafted, signed and developed
high “stuff” guys with little command
they always lead the league in K’s and BB’s
its an organizational philosophy in the PLAYERS they’re bringing in, has nothing to do with the coaches
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
LR
My point of view is I’ve seen Zambrano, Marmol, Harden, Marshall, Dempster, Guzman, and Gregg all digress as they have struggles with their fastball command. Some of these guys have been with him for a few years and others are relatively new. I just think the staff needs a new voice, so, if any mechanical changes or pithcing philosophy is taught, then it is tranlated to the field.
Well, Guzman's having a pretty good year.
Has he really digressed? His BB/9 is far lower now – 2.7 at 50 IP – than it was in 2006 (BB/9 of 5.9 in 56 IP). Not sure about the others. This really begs for a pretty detailed statistical analysis. In any case, I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to a fresh voice at some point. Maybe sooner rather than later, depending on how this season goes.
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when I say Guzman
he is missing with his fastball reguarly. He has fallen in love with the cutter and uses it almost exclusively—and it’s a damn fine pitch. But he struggles pitching off of his 96-98 mph sinker. This is a better discussion over a beer than small quick posts. Sorry about that.
Agreed...
I am not going to comment on every post, but i am agreeing with you. The staff needs a new face. I am really struggling to find a pitcher that has improved in a Cubs uniform while Rothschild has been here. I guess i could say Lilly, but really no one else.
Personally i think Rothschild either has these guys fall in love with there great pitch and they over use it or, he fails to get the players away from that great pitch. One of the two is happening.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
agree
and I see mechanical flaws that go uncorrected.
I cannot believe how LR cannot get Marmol to level his shoulders. His front shoulder is down so low, the only place for the shoulder is to “fly open”—it’s terrible that he cannot get this fixed.
I agree with your entire post.
The grass is not always greener,
in fact, it rarely IS greener on the other side.
Ask the Brewers this, they failed to value their pitching coach by paying him as one of the best pitching coaches in MLB. Look where that got them. The Rangers are very happy with Mike Maddux. The Brewers just fired his replacement.
The fact is Larry is a respected and highly regarded pitching coach. I wouldn’t be so quick to say that someone else would do a better job.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
He is respected by the players...
But again tell me why obvious flaws go unnoticed?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
yep and so is Dusty Baker
and his issues are well documented by numerous people in this community alone. I don’t care about respect. I want our players to achieve thier potential and I haven’t seen that happen.
But how do you know their unnoticed?
Maybe it’s just beyond his power to turn “high stuff” guys into control pitchers.
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He is respected and highly regarded
by executives, coaches and players.
However, he is not a magician. He is working with human beings, not puppets.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
So his hand up Heilman's ass is just for fun....OK.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
So fixing a mechanical issue...
with a pitcher is not his job, because he is not a magician, then what exactly is his job?
Trot out to the mound and tell the pitcher that first pitches balls are bad?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Well, again...
…he can TRY to fix mechanical issues but he’s not a puppeteer.
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Kind of like Trammel trying to teach Theriot and Fontenot how to tag runners?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Marmols...
…timing is all screwed up just like what happens to a hitter when they go into a slump and get over anxioius.
With his violent motion, his timing keys become even more critical and I agree a top flight pitching coach should be able to help in this area.
I have never been a big Rothschild fan, even though people like Maddux say he is great. It just so happens that Maddux had better command then 99% of the ptichers in his era and he didn’t need Larry’s help in this area. Problem is, with the big focus on radar gun readings, most pitchers need the most help with how to command their pitches vs knowing how to throw different ones. I don’t think this have ever been Rothchild’s strength.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I am not sure but I think Marmol
has an option left.
He does.
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Read the fine print.
Marmol would have to clear optional assignment waivers to be sent down. Obviously, he wouldn’t clear. Forget this idea.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Like I said in the other post
Put him on the DL with "wild arm syndrome " and after 10 days he can get some rehab work
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
SICK AND TIRED
I have had enough of Kevin Gregg and if you really are a Cub fan than I hope you’ve had enough too. He is costing us games and he CANNOT in any way be trusted in the postseason. I don’t know what Jim Hendry was drunk on when he went after this loser in the offseason. I can see it now:
Hendry: “We need to find a closer. Let’s see …….. what about the guy who led all of baseball in blown saves last year? That’s it!!”
Well surprise, surprise he’s at it again. He looks like he’s pitching in a company picnic softball game the way guys just tee off on him. How many games has he cost us in the last three weeks alone?? Heck, he cost us the whole series in Miami.
And while we’re at it, I’ve had enough of Marmol too. I don’t care that he “has really nasty stuff.” Why? Because his “really nasty stuff” more often than not takes a back seat to his “Rick The Wild Thing Vaughan stuff.” I know he has an impressive ERA but the only number that matters is “wins” and he’s not helping.
These guys gotta go. Marmol is excellent trade bait because a lot of teams would be foolish enough to sign him. Gregg would look good on a deserted island somewhere.
In Gregg's defense...
… he threw one good inning last night. He’s not used to throwing more than that. Sean Marshall should have been in the game in the 12th inning.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But Lou has used Gregg in multiple inning situations before
I can’t remember the game, but he had a good showing both innings I vaguely recall, so Lou clearly thinks Gregg is a supercloser or something.
How about a RH CF??
After we waive Miles…or maybe before….how about getting a RH hitter up who can play CF. I like Fuld but he shouldn’t be our RH platoon option against lefties….since of course he hits LH!!!!!!!
by Crazy Uncle Lou on Aug 12, 2009 7:46 AM CDT reply actions
Well, now that Jessica has cast him to the curb...
That shouldn’t be a problem
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
The second Johnson got hurt
Hendry should have went out and found one if we don’t have one at AAA. Everyone knows Fukodome struggles against lefties. It would be different if Soriano or Bradley could play CF….but they can’t.
by Crazy Uncle Lou on Aug 12, 2009 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, they could have called up So Taguchi.
That’s about the only guy who was available.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Who? Name a name, please.
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Bob Dernier
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a name.
And even at age 52, Dernier could probably hit better than Aaron Miles.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Kevin Roberson's available, too
And he switch-hits!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
My poor dead grandma could hit better than Miles
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Um, no, that wasn't the answer.
You want to take on that contract? I wouldn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why not?
Honestly? We spend millions and millions to lose, if we spend more millions to help the team why not?
This is what kills me, we have so many bad contracts and then people make comments like “I dont want to take on that contract”. Come on, a good player is a good player.
Remember, you said the Cardinals were not going to be there at the end of the season. They went out and to me made their team the best in the National League. How, by creating an average team in the off-season and then making the appropriate trades once they gaged where they stood. What did we do this off season? Dump money and then spend more money on big pieces that have not been so big. I just dont understand why contracts are bad when your payroll is already $150 million plus. At some point it doesnt matter, you get who you need to help your team win. You cannot tell me that Alex Rios would not help this team.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
You think Alex Rios would put this team over the top?
His OPS isn’t even above .750.
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He may not...
But using his contract as an excuse doesnt make too much sense to me. We have spent so much already using that as an excuse seems useless.
I mean the same argument could have been made with Matt Holliday and the Cardinals. With Oakland his OPS. was .831, and with the Cardinals 1.294. So a change sometimes helps. I told my Cardinal fans that they will be very happy with Holliday, they said no way, he wasnt worth it. I completely disagree.
I actually wanted Holliday more, i was told that i was nuts for wanting him because he was struggling, blah blah blah. Well he already has half the homers in a Cardinals jersey that Milton has in a Cubs uny.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Well, there's a pretty sizeable gap between...
…Alex Rios and Matt Holliday.
Rios career OPS: .786
Holliday career OPS: .934
I know the Coors Field Effect may play some role in that but, again, Rios would appear to be only a marginal upgrade, if that, and, thus, not worth throwing another massive contract on the pile.
So you wanted the Cubs to acquire Holliday? Where would he have played?
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Holliday's never played centerfield.
Now that I look – he’s never played right field either. I really don’t see how the Cubs could’ve fit him in – unless perhaps they platooned Bradley and Dome in centerfield and put Holliday in right. And I don’t think the Cubs are willing to limit Bradley to a platoon role just yet.
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Well it didnt happen...
So it doesnt matter i guess, but i still think his bat would have been worth it.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Point being...
… if you’re going to spend that much money, get a player who’s worth it. Rios isn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If Rios gets in the right situation and gets a hitting coach
who will bring him back to where he was, he can have some big time success. He does seem to be a bit of a headcase.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
If...
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
May well be...
It’s just that are so many "IF"s the way it is already
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Oh I agree,
And I’m not saying the Cubs should have gotten him, I’m just saying, I live in Toronto, and have watched him since he came up and he is a five tool ball player. Just misguided and a little messed up. He’s built perfectly to play the game, so who knows.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
i hear this guy named ryan freel is a FA...
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't read Lou's mind
but he seems to want Marmol out there to work through his control issues. The problem is, the Phillies did what they were supposed to do – sit there, take walks, get hit and score the go-ahead run.
I don’t necessarily blame Gregg for the loss. He threw a solid inning and the pitch that landed in the basket was down and out of the zone. Give Ben Francisco credit for a good piece of hitting.
Tough loss, but plenty of baseball left to be played. Let’s go smack Pedro around tonight, whadda ya say?
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Marmol is a dominating pitcher when he throws strikes or can throw enough strikes to get the hitters
to chase that slider. So I can also see why Lou wants him to work it out—and to do it against a tough lineup. But I think he was given enough chance when the bases were loaded. Having the lefty(s) in the pen for some reason, if the bases loaded and another lefty up isn’t a reason then that’s puzzling? Maybe their arms were all tired?
For future use, I wouldn’t just limit Marmol to non-leverage situations, but he should get less and Guzman more. That’s the Manager’s call and to me the most important part of managing is handling the staff. So, I think we will tend to be frustrated by Lou more times than not.
I didn't have a problem with Marmol coming in...
… just get him out of there when it’ s clear he didn’t have it and the situation screams out for a lefty.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Especially when Marmol has done this repeatedly this year.
I’m sure every fan called for it after he walked his 2nd guy.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
I would like to see Marmol on a very short leash
If he walks or hits the first guy: take him out. We’ve seen this so many times before and it always ends badly. The only question is, once he fills the bases with free baserunners, will any score.
Al – nice seeing you last night – too bad this one ended the way it did, on an otherwise perfect night.
Take a pitcher out when it's clear he doesn't have it ?
That’s not Lou. See Game # 1 of the playoffs last year.
Think ahead a few batters and have someone warming up ? That’s not Lou either.
Geez, he drives me nuts.
by Southside Steve on Aug 12, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Worse he couples that with taking other pitchers out too early
As in putting Marshall, Grabow etc for one or two batters when they can easily do an inning
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
This.
If he’s dealing, leave him in. The minute he hits a batter or walks someone, especially with lefties coming up and you have a LOOGY in the pen, you need to get someone up in the pen. He shown time and time again that once he starts giving guys free passes, it’s time to pull the plug.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
The problem is...
…I believe Grabow actually does better against RH hitters vs lefties.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Key at bat of the game on the offensive side
Bottom of the 6th. Phillies just tied the game, letting some air out of the park. Baker leads off with a single; Happ’s been in and out of trouble all night. Time to let himself get into trouble again . . . and Fuld groudns into two on the first pitch.
Actually, there were a lot of wasted chances again – losing when only giving up 3 hits in 12 innings???
Al, you’re 100% correct regarding Grabow. I was thinking the same thing watching at home. It’s not like Marmol’s control issues last night were something new.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions
The Sam Fuld love affair had run it's course.
Much quicker than hoff. Fox is close to being next.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:15 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
How is Fox next?
If anything Fox is proving that he can get more ABs and handle it.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
After looking at his game log
I stand corrected.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Fox is getting too
many hits and they don’t ned anybody that is hitting .300!
Did anyone really think Fuld was going to stay as hot as he was...
…during his first callup? He’s a fourth/fifth OF utility guy. I still like his defense and speed – but keep your expectations in check.
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I wasn't looking for a Sheffield Avenue blast
Just a better approach than a one pitch AB, pulled grounder for a double play.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
That was unusual for him.
He’s usually a lot more patient. I guess he saw his pitch and went for it. So many things went wrong last night…
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Maybe a hit and run.
Or a bunt. Something but first-pitch swinging from Fuld would have been nice.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I tried to tell people.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Only scoring 1 run with the bases loaded and nobody out
In the third inning wasn’t very good, we had Happ on the ropes.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Yes, that's also true
And the 1st and 2nd inning didn’t help, either.
Some balls were hit hard, but . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Can't say a lot when guys hit the ball hard and they go right at guys.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
No, I know.
That’s another reason why I didn’t like Fuld’s AB. His approach was poor and he didn’t hit the ball that well.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
We've stopped going deep in the count
to put pressure on pitchers. I hate to see that first pitch swing and ground out or even worse, GIDP.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
The game thread was out of control last night.
I remembered why I don’t join those anymore.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:12 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
The trolls were out in full force during the eighth inning.
Not that I expected otherwise.
I have been to five Cubs games in my lifetime.
The Cubs' record in those games: 5 wins, 0 losses.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 12, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
The game threads are so much fun when the Cubs are winning.
But nights like last night are ridiculous. It’s the reason I shut down my computer in the 8th.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
We had to deal with the following:
BLou (who had some very rare positive, pro-Cub posts), and John T. Unger. I thought Theroid would show up, but he did not.
I have been to five Cubs games in my lifetime.
The Cubs' record in those games: 5 wins, 0 losses.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 12, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I've officially started the "Don't take the bait" campaign.
Why people give Blou what he wants (attention) is beyond me. He’s not a Cubs fan, just someone who likes to come on here and mess with people.
So I encourage you BCB, only you can stop Blou’s.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
+1 absolutely
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Rec’d.
I have been to five Cubs games in my lifetime.
The Cubs' record in those games: 5 wins, 0 losses.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 12, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I need
a graphic for that!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
here ya go
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Aug 12, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
That is awesome.
Suitable for posting anytime a troll comes around.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Post that every time BLou shows up.
I have been to five Cubs games in my lifetime. The Cubs' record in those games: 5 wins, 0 losses.
白人看不懂
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 12, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
What's with the Chinese?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely.
Although he loves to play the villan, so he’ll probably print that off and put it on his mantle.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I promise
not to respond even if he writes that Sam Fuld should be DFAd and all Jewish players suck.
HOWEVER I will not be responsible for my actions if for some reason ( and it is Blou so he does not need a reason)
if he says anything bad about Maddux.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I was listening to Monsters in the Morning today (don't ask me why)...
and Mike North mentioned BB tearing into the Cubs recently and word getting to the clubhouse a la a Steve Stone situation. He also was comparing Zambrano to the Sammy of old with the way he is taking control of the clubhouse.
Is there any truth to this? I know BB has been more vocal, especially of Sorry, but I hadn’t heard any discontent because of it, or anything at all about this Z stuff.
It's no secret I dislike bb
But he is going overboard when it comes to sori.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The thing about bb is that he really cannot stand people giving a lazy effort
i.e. not running hard to 1st base, not running hard around the bases, watching your non-homerun instead of running hard to 1st, and not running hard and diving for balls in the outfield. These are mostly things that Soriano seems to do on a regular basis. I don’t think he has it out for Sori, it is just that he doesn’t think Soriano plays to his potential.
Nonsense
Bob Brenly, and every other person on the face of the planet that can recognize how little effort Soriano gives on a daily basis, absolutely should call Soriano out for those transgressions. Doing so is never, absolutely never, “going overboard”.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I respect that opinion.
I don’t agree with it, but i respect it. Sori brings it on himself.
I think bb looks for any chance to go after sori bc he doesn’t like his cocky attitude. That’s when I feel it goes overboard, when you look for chances to dig at him.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:52 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
There might be something to that
But I think he does point out when Soriano does something good, too.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
He does.
He made a comment during the last homestand, maybe, to the effect of: “I never thought I’d say this, but that’s a fine defensive play by Alfonso Soriano.”
A bit backhanded, yes. But a compliment, too.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
You blamed Theriot for Tulo's triple...
When replays clearly showed Soriano jogging to the ball, misplaying it in the outfield, dropping it, and then throwing in less than perfect throw. Your dislike of BB, and undying defense of Soriano is skewing your opinion on this matter.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Okay we started talking about this last night...
…and didn’t get to finish, so I’m glad we’re picking it up (honestly, not snarky).
But Soriano, despite jogging/bobbling, got the ball into Theriot in PLENTY of time to get Tulo out at third. It’s not Soriano’s fault Theriot decided to skip the ball to Fox.
And just for the record, I’m done apologizing for Sori. He brings the hate on himself. I’m still a huge fan, but I understand why people are frustrated with him.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I'm a fan of Sori too...
But I’m just really frustrated with him now.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Let me put it this way.
If Theriot makes a routine throw, is Tulo out at third?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
That
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
WAS a routine throw for Theriot.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Is this like
If a tree falls in the forest…
by WittyUserName on Aug 12, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Assuming Fox catches that routine throw...
…and applies the tag quickly enough, yes.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
My only thought is
If Soriano picks it up cleanly does Tulo even go to third or just stop at 2nd?
I mean do we give a guy credit for misplaying a ball to make a guy think he can get another base and then throwing him out. I think this leads to Soriano’s inflated number of assists in the outfield the past couple of years. I would like to see this in a stat anyways.
Theriot’s throw was awful and inexcusable.
Its a funny story actually.
I see your point.
But is it really misplaying the ball, when he gets the ball into the relay guy in plenty of time? It doesn’t matter and I don’t mean to go off on that one play, but I’m just sayin that I’m just sayin.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
This is what I was basing the play on...
That if Soriano runs to the ball, and fields it cleanly, then Tulo probably stops at 2nd.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
it wasnt a triple though
it should have been a double with tulo advancing to third on a fielding error
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
BB
is telling like it is. Watching Sori casually jog over to TT “single” that turned into triple was just infuriating.
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
That was on theriot.
Not trying to change your opinion, but I’m not sure how an objective person (bb included) could possibly blame soriano for that. It’s just my opinion, I know the bcb world loves bb and I shouldn’t have said anything….again. N/t.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Watch. The. Replay.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
No. He's not.
He only points out Sori’s (and everyone else’s) miscues and mistakes. He’s not pulling a Kaplan and constantly bashing a player. Your dislike of BB is clouding your objectivity.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe you're right regarding BB in the grand scheme of things.
I probably shouldn’t dislike his commentating as much as I do, but with regards to Sori and the Tulo play, I don’t think so.
I think BB looks for any chance to dig at Soriano, bc he doesn’t like the way he plays the game and sees someone that has more potential than what he’s producing. But that doesn’t make it right to constantly dig at him.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Brenly was doing the comparison or North was?
I suspect North doesn’t know as much about the team as he thinks he does; he’s not there every day.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't put too much stock into something Mike North said
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I never listened to North on the radio, and I cringe everytime I flip on CSN in the AM hoping for Sportsrise and I get...
that terrible show Monsters in the Morning. Does anyone watch it? As if hearing North isn’t repulsive enough, someone thinks I want to watch him, too? And the worst part is that they don’t know anything about the Cubs or the Bulls- nothing- they’re complete hacks.
by smash! on Aug 12, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good.
Horse shit baseball needs to be called out, not sugarcoated and “gee whizzed” around.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
players are pissed at Brenly because he's telling the truth?
holy shit, if there’s anybody they should be mad at, it should be themselves.
COOL BEANS!
by lexmarklover on Aug 12, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm done with Lou Pinella
I’ve hesitated to blame Lou for too much this season because he wasn’t dealt a great hand by Hendry, but after last night forget it. Lou’s done.
Freaking begs for a LOOGY for 2 seasons, finally gets one, and the DOESNT FREAKING USE HIM. I’d have fired Lou right there.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Aug 12, 2009 8:13 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
He was real close to losing it in the post game
Press conference. I still think this is his last year.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:19 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Choice.
He’s said he never realized how difficult it is managing the north siders. I think his relationship with his family is more important to him than this.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 8:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm sure his health...
Is more important as well. He looks tired and worn down at times. He even admitted to having some chest pains (maybe he was being sarcastic, who knows) after one of his fiery altercations with an ump.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm sorry to say...
But your exactly right…I would, fire, him…too…
Wow, hard to say, but, I do stand by it…
by bilbosbuttons on Aug 12, 2009 8:25 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Fire him now ?
I don’t think you need to worry about after the season, he will go by mutual agreement.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd be ok if we had a change now
I can’t trust Lou vs some of the other good managers out there. I always feel like they (i.e. TLR, Torre) would have the upper hand when it mattered most, like if we should be lucky enough to make the playoffs this year.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
I agree
Something along the lines of being “burnt out” will be the way for Lou to gracefully step aside.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Put trammel in charge...
Interim coaches can ignite a fire in a team…
Ask the rockies…
by bilbosbuttons on Aug 12, 2009 11:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
My guess would be that...
…Lou will quit only if the Cubs crash and burn in truly embarassing fashion. If they stay competitive until the bitter end, he may come back.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Yes, and the last two division championships.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
It pains me to blame Lou
Who brought us a culture of winning these last two years, but I agree with your argument.
Carlos needs to be kept on a short leash when he is sent out this year, and given the hard hook.
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Way too early to talk about Lou's status
Remember when the Brewers canned Ned Yost with like two weeks left in the season – or whatever it was? We can certainly point to a number of Lou meltdowns this summer, but let’s see what the next 7-8 weeks brings before we talk about Lou’s future.
If the Cubs were to win the World Series, I’m sure he’d retire – but that’s a completely different discussion. We could discuss who the Cubs’ next manager should be during the victory parade.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Aug 12, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I second that!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think I like the sound of:
Hey, it’s a new century!
I doubt I could stay alive that long… ;-)
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Well, the next century is bound to be better than the last.
At least, I can hope.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Just to clarify
I am not proposing running Lou out of town. I just want him to pay more attention in key situations
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
culture of winning?
we had been to the playoffs in ’03 and ’04 and just missed in ’05, lou was hired in ’07
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
we were in the playoffs in 2004?
someone pinch me
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
we all tend to think the same thing
as it certainly should have been a playoff year. It’s amazing how the end of that season transpired.
Anoybody think the plate was squeezed later in the game?
I thought Harden got the shaft starting in about the 5th inning on with outside pitches and continued into the 6th and 7th. Marmol did his little thing at the home plate umpire but I didn’t think that was warranted at all, he missed badly.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Marmol did get squeezed a bit
But when you’re all over the place, that’s going to happen.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Watching on Gameday
it appeared to be another one of those strikezones that’s fallen on its side.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
absolutely
I saw Marmol get squeezed, but it also happened to the Phillies closer.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Definitely went both ways...
But i did question the motives of the Umps when they blew the HR call.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
that was awful
how do you miss that call? It wasn’t even HR DISTANCE…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
That was one of the worst calls I've seen in a while
Can you imagine if they hadn’t had replay and the umpires had let that stand? Sheesh..
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
It would have been like DeRosa's "home run" in Philadelphia last year.
That one was also clearly foul (per replays), but it was not reviewed and stood as a result.
I have been to five Cubs games in my lifetime. The Cubs' record in those games: 5 wins, 0 losses.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 12, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Between the perception of Marmol getting squeezed at times
and that call, the crowd was building into a fine powderkeg form by the middle of the 9th.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I know you threw BP when Dusty was there
But do you really think the umpires had it in for the Cubs last night?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
when I saw Aaron Miles come up to bat I left the room.
I came back and saw that the Phillies had brought in Eyre to face him and told my girlfriend that he was either going to strike out or ground out weakly. He chose the later. he’s just not worth a roster spot anymore.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
i had to look it up
cause I didnt believe you. August 8th he hit a triple and scored to tie the game in the 6th inning in the only game they won this weekend..
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
last night
was painful, what a winnable game that was.
Would Kerry Wood
be having such a terrible year if he was still a Cub? What do you guys think. I’ve heard a lot that keeping Wood would have been a bad idea because he is struggling this year, but would he be more comfortable and be a better option than Gregg as a Cub?
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
At least we'd still have Kerry Wood
I sure do miss him on this team, no matter his skill level. He was the Cubs to me.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
As nuch as Wood mean to the team
Letting him walk was a solid baseball decision. No way would I give him the contract that Cleveland did.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
*much / meant
argh
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
That's the bigger problem
Just like letting Alou walk was a solid decision – the problem was that no backup plan was in place.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Took the words right out of my mouth
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Could get out of a jam
What is reinforced and logged in the memory, in this case mine, is that Kerry Wood could work himself out of a jam. He didn’t always do that as a closer, but I had confidence in what he could do. I took-in the end of an Indians game about a month ago when Wood got himself into a jam and then got out of it; reinforcing my notion one more time. Gregg’s fastball doesn’t have enough movement making those pitches more likely to be hit and hit long.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 12, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I've often wondered this, too.
Would Woody have had as bad a season as he’s had if he’d stayed with the Cubs? Have all the adjustments he’s had to make – new teammates, new organization, new home park,new division, new league, new routine, new spring training facilities, different clubhouse culture perhaps – thrown him off his game? I guess we’ll never know. It’s all academic, I suppose.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Sadly I think he would
He is a professional player and I can’t see that doing it Cleveland can account for his truly horrible year.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
it doesn't matter
fact is, he wanted too much money, and they had to let him walk. There’s no way to tell if he would have hit better here, just like there’s no way to tell that DeRosa would have replicated his Cleveland performances if he’d stayed a Cub, and I sure would have preferred DeRo stay then Woody.
I wanted the team to stay the same, but Woody isn’t worth 10mill.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Miles
Picking on Miles is easy…I’ve done it many times myself. Picking on Soriano is more appropriate. While it’s very clear that one of his patented “hot streaks” is long over, it is equally clear that he’s once again in one of his much more prevalent “cold streaks”. They are paying ridiculous money for this guy to be hidden in the sixth spot in the lineup, to take whatever approach he feels like at whatever time he feels like taking it…like swinging wildly at a head-high fastball ahead in the count 2-0 down a run in the 12th last night, all the while shuddering every time a ball gets hit remotely near LF. I doubt this is what they envisioned when this guy was signed.
I know some posters take umbrage with him but to finger Miles for his ineptitude, which is great, somehow makes little sense when one of the largest, if not the very largest, reasons why the Cubs offense sputters routinely is allowed to wander in LF on a nightly basis. Soriano has to go…someway, somehow. If Hendry can’t be creative enough to jettison him in the offseason, then Hendry can ride the same boat out of town.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
What cracks me up about Soriano
Is that no matter how much he struggles at the plate, how much the fans get on him, he still has the sack to continue to do that rediculous hop in the outfield. Would I be out of line saying he is a guy who looks like he doesn’t like baseball?
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
If anything Soriano's hopping and smiling and joking
while he struggles shows that he LOVES baseball. But of course since he makes all this money and has fun playing a game people have to rip into him.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Come on man
He’s being paid ridiculously to perform at levels much, much higher than what he is. Money aside, a guy that hits .250 with about 25 HR’s and 70 RBI"s that plays an awful LF and can’t run the bases is looking for a job nearly every season. Instead, this guy is a fixture for the next five seasons. Dave Kingman-lite.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Fine you take your grindy Sam Fuld or Reed Johnson in left field
I’ll take Soriano. My team will win more games.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
You don't
think the Cubs wouldn’t pull an Alex Rios and dump that contract if they could. Perhaps they could just pay him for one month since that seems to be where all his production is.
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
The way this team is currently built
They need Soriano. If they were to abandon this current team, then sure they would get rid of his contract, but if they want to WIN NOW (no matter how much a fail that might seem) Soriano has to stay.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I'd rec all of your comments if I wasn't on my phone.
Alex rios vs sori? That’s easy for me.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2009 9:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Funny how Alex Rios' contract is okay above
But Soriano’s if the worst down here.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Both Contracts are bad.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
I choose none of the above.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
That's not what I said
You know the Cubs would jump at the chance to dump Sori’s contract if someone would be dumb enough to take it off their hands.
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd be willing to bet that right now Hendry wouldn't dump it
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I'm not so sure about that.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously??
Hendry would offer to drive Sori to the airport
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
That would go against everything Hendry has done this season
He’s stuck by all his guys, plus he would be giving up on this season, something that would cause a meltdown of half the fanbase.
Perhaps in the offseason he would do it, but right now, no way.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Hendry
seemed to be focused on keeping payroll flat this offseason.
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Ill take Jake Fox
and my team will win more games. It will also be able to fill that glaring hole at second base, beef up the starting pitching, and add a couple of solid bullpen arms at all the same cost.
So what is the name of this benevolent team that's going to take Soriano's contract...
…completely off your hands? Is that what you’re saying?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I dunno, but as I mentioned yesterday, I would
see if the Cubs were over 5 back on the 22nd and, if so, put Soriano on the waiver wire. With the allure of having him available on the playoff roster, assist in September and keep him from your opponent, the Angels, Red Sox, or Yankees might, might, make a claim.
Heck a big spending team with budget room and in need of talent who like veterans (Giants) are slight possibilities.
I like Soriano, but am very skeered of his contract and performance 2011 and beyond.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Waivers for players on all teams have probably already been asked.
No one waits till August 22nd to do this. My guess is that Soriano has already cleared waivers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm just stating how I'd handle it if I wanted to create
the vacuum where a large payroll contending team might pick up the contract, Rios style.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Well
Not sure that I said I’d rather have either Fuld or Johnson. In fact, I know I’ve never said that. But I would take someone that could hit better than .250 with an OBP over .310, that could play LF adequately instead of simply out of requirement, that could actually run the bases as they are intended instead of station to station out of necessity and that might actually have a bit of an idea of how to approach each AB.
I don’t really care what the guy’s name is, as long as he can play and will give legitimate effort because for the better part of 2009, that hasn’t happened with the guy that regularly gets run out there in LF.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
The problem with the stats you are using
is they are only for this season. Over the course of his career, Soriano has been a very productive player. He’s having a down year, I suspect due to playing with an injury, but it is likely he will rebound next season.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
OK
I respect that opinion but caution you just the same. In order for him to rebound in 2010 as you suggest, he’s going to have to change his approach because he’s certain to get pitched to exactly the way he is this season. Because he’s proven that he’s completely incapable or disinterested in doing so, I have much less faith than you that this is a blip on the radar rather than a new baseline for his future performance.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
injuries dont force you to swing at sliders 10ft off the plate
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
I don’t that is it. It just seems pretty clear that as he’s aged, he has lost the desire to hustle. He has figured out that in Chicago, he isn’t expected to hustle….he can walk out to his position, he can walk to and from the dugout after AB’s, he isn’t asked to run the bases, he doesn’t have to steal a base and his horrible play in LF is tolerated. Basically, he has carte blanche to do whatever he wants and on a daily basis he shows exactly that.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
What this sounds like then
Maybe he enjoys baseball to some degree, but can we agree he has no pride in what he does then?
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
You think Alfonso Soriano takes no pride in what he does on the baseball field?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I was asking that.
Would it not be a possibility? He takes the same approach to his at bats, he is lacksidasial (sorry for spelling) on the basepaths, the same in the outfield. If you say he enjoys baseball, then what is it? If you take pride in what you do, you would constantly be looking to improve yourself.
If you took pride in what you do, when you are struggling mightily, would you do a silly little hop to catch fly balls?
By the way, I am in no way a Soriano hater. He’s actually probably my favourite Cub, doesn’t mean he doesn’t frustrate me.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
How do you know he's not looking to improve himself?
Can you point me to a specific quote in which he says this? I would disagree that he takes the “same approach” in all of his ABs. Like many players, he goes through phases of being more selective and other phases of swinging at awful pitches.
Yes, generally, he’s more of a free swinger but how does that translate to “he takes no pride in his performance”? So all players who tend to swing away don’t give a crap? I don’t see the connection. Oh, and the hop has nothing to do with this – it’s a timing thing he does to feel more comfortable. This he has said.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
absolutely not
no one knows how happy or not happy Soriano is with his performance. Pete’s sake.
And Daver is utterly right on the hop thing. It’s stupid for people to complain about it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Dave is right on the hop thing
But I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s stupid to complain about. I don’t think Soriano is showboating, but I think it’s amateurish.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
so it's something he does
to try to make sure he catches the ball, and we shouldn’t support that?
Who cares if it’s amateurish (not that I think it is)? If it helps him catch the ball, well, doesn’t he need all the help he can get to catch the ball?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he should learn to catch the ball without doing it
I think it does look amateurish. In 27 years of watching baseball, I’ve never seen any other outfielder need to do that. I find it very difficult to believe that an athlete as talented as Soriano is couldn’t learn to catch the ball without hopping. I also think it introduces opportunity for error.
In the grand scheme of things, that’s pretty low on the list of what is wrong with the Cubs. But that doesn’t stop me from thinking it’s not quite right.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure I'd call it "amateurish"...
…but it’s certainly odd. I’ve learned to not let it bother me. As long as he catches the thing he can do three backflips and dance a jig before making the grab.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Thats funny...Theriot does that AFTER he catches a ball.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
...and before he throws it.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
exactly.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it causes as many problems as some people think it does
But I do think it gives him more chances to drop one.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Gotta agree here.
He says he does it to help his timing, but if he misses, the ball’s by him and he’s still in the air.
It’s his way, but I think it makes his timing more complicated, adds time to a recovery if he misses the ball, and increases his chances for injury by adding a landing to every catch.
I’d prefer if he stopped, but I don’t control it.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Yeah, his glove is in motion...
…when he catches the ball, which I would presume increases the risk of him dropping it. But…whatcha gonna do.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
But what he is doing is absolutely silly
and makes it at least a bit harder to catch the ball. Hitting is a difficult thing to do and hitters need timing mechanisms to help them with their swing. That’s fine.
Catching an easy fly ball (which is the only time he does the hop) is not difficult. In fact it is easy. No major league player should need help in catching an easy fly ball. I don’t need any help with it and Soriano is 50 times the athlete I am. As any free throw shooting coach will tell you, the more moving parts you have, the greater the chance something goes wrong. Same applies to this.
And, it has happened that the hop may have contributed to him dropping 2 fly balls in his Cubs career (that I can think of). That is 2 too many.
Simply, I don’t buy that Soriano “needs it”. I think its just a thing he does to show off.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 12, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't it something he learned while playing 2nd base?
And now cannot get himself to stop.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I'm not so sure...
…I think he’s naturally impatient and it keeps him from closing his glove too early. In other words, it’s a timing thing.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
OK
Then why not take a breath instead?
My point is, why do something that is going to make it more difficult to make the catch? The timing mechanism (though I really do have a hard time believing he needs one) should not interfere with that.
by jerry morales rules on Aug 12, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
it's what
he thinks he needs to do. Like Giambi wearing the golden thong. Who cares, so long as he catches the ball?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Good Lord...
that might be the nuttiest thing I’ve read on here in a long time.
Fonzie haters unite!
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 12, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
This thread has definitely gone over the absured ledge.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
How come other hot/cold streaks are never ripped into here?
Aramis has always been pretty streaky at the plate, last season he had at least two stretches of 0-25 or so.
Fukudome is just as streaky as Soriano (I know he has gotten ripped into a lot especially by me) but he goes up and down all the time.
Soto is pretty damn streaky himself. How come nobody whines about him having cold streaks?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Because Ramirez STILL drives in a 100+ every year.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
and Soriano's first two seasons here weren't deserving of the guy getting a break?
In fact this season we never would have done anything in April without him, meaning who knows where we would be. Remember Lee was hitting like .190.
He helped us jump start after the All-Star break as well, and hasn’t really gone into a prolonged slump in the second half. He had one or two bad games and immediatly got jumped on.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
OK
Clap, clap, clap….thanks for showing up in April. Now what?
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
This is the old Arod argument.
Winning games in April DOES matter.
Soriano, whether you like him or not, has 4 (I believe) walkoffs this year.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
As he should because he's an all or nothing hitter
But how many games could he have won if he took a steady smart approach at the plate and hit the ball where they ain’t?
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
Not really
Saying he only produced in April, and had a bit part in July, is just that. He’s been wholly unproductive otherwise. This isn’t an A-Rod playoff thing. It’s entirely a Soriano has had an absolutely atricious season for a guy that was counted on to be a big-time performer. Not one person can dispute that. Not even himself.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Ramirez...
Is our best hitter. Soriano is paid to be our best hitter. See the difference?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Do me a favor
Go here and tell me who is the most statistially similar player to the awful baseball player you call Alfonso Soriano..
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Also go
here and tell me who is second on the list fo statistically similar to Aramis.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
What am i looking at?
These are wonderful numbers. thank you, i am familiar with the website.
Keep on defending Soriano my man, he is a God to Baseball.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
He isn't a god to baseball
Just the exact same hitter as Aramis Ramirez, I know that offends your baseball senses, but its true.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Go beyond the statistics
and watch their at bats. Ramirez never waves at outside garbage the way Soriano so simply does. My wife chuckles when I sit at home and mock Soriano for swinging wildly through these rediculous sliders.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
Just the Ks...
alone is enough to see the difference. Aram has Ked 100 times in a season once. Soriano is yet to go a season without K’ing a 100 times.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Are you basing this on career OPS+?
5 of the last 6 single years, Ramirez’ is better.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Go to statisticall similar players
at the bottom of each BR page I linked above.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Ok. At a glance of the explanations,
Soriano seems to get significant additional points for his time at 2B (positional adjustment) and stealing bases (which he no longer does).
Without taking the time to calculate just how much that is, it certainly seems to skew the numbers quite a bit.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Sure, but we can't just ignore those things can we?
Over the course of their careers they are the same player pretty much. Just because Soriano cashed in more than Aramis did, there is an outpouring of venom towards him.
Sure Soriano doesn’t steal that much anymore, but his speed is still greater than that of Ramirez, so I could argue that over the course of the season he adds more on the basepaths. Any RBI total (I know you did say it, this is just a general response) is complete and total bull, because Soriano’s time at leadoff.
He strikes out? So what, Aramis grounds into 3 times the amount of double plays. Those doubles plays cost twice as many outs as the strikeouts.
If you want to say that right now Soriano and Aramis are different hitters, I would agree, but not that much different. It still stands that this team is built around the two of them being in the lineup as much as possible.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Wait a sec....
This is a classic example of using stats to support your argument and then toss aside stats that dont support it.
You cannot say Soriano’s RBI totals differ because he bats leads off, and then call on the double plays against Aram. Clearly Soriano is not going to hit into as many double plays in the leadoff spot as Aram would in the 3-4 spot. Common sense there.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Ah ha
So we can’t manipulate the stats. Like comparing their numbers as Cubs (you didn’t do this I know).
Over the course of their careers they are the same player. Streak hitters who hit lots of homers, play very iffy defense, but when a season is all over we can say hey look we got really good season out of that guy.
Thats my point.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
He's too frustrating for some...
…to look at it as objectively as you do. That’s the crux.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I disagree...
And we will agree to disagree…
But i can find something we can agree on – they both are absolutely horrid in the playoffs!!!!
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
That's my point - we CAN'T ignore them
I’ll start by saying I don’t have time to thoroughly read it and still participate in this discussion (while getting some work done) – so correct me if I’m mistaken.
Aren’t those numbers inflated because Soriano used to play second base? That’s got nothing to do with how he compares to Ramirez as a hitter today.
And I’m not sure that he is faster than Ramirez.
(I never mentioned the strikeouts, either.)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I know you didn't use strikeouts
I was trying to kill two replies in one.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Fair enough - but I was honestly asking the question
Does Soriano’s 2B experience play into that compairsion?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
It looks like second base does factor in
but so does left field. They take an average of the two postions. Meaning that being at second was worth more about 40 more points in their system than third base, but being in left is worth 40 less than third.
Seems to me that it evens out a bit, meaning that adjustment is probably not that great, maybe 5 or 6 points.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Fair enough
I’m not convinced that Soriano’s productive career is over, but he is damn frustrating.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Its very frustrating
I’ll admit that I curse Soriano’s name during the game quite a bit.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Preach it.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Come on man
Look at their stats with the Cubs
OBP .363 vs. .331
OPS .912 vs. .846
SO: 401 in 7 seasons vs. 336 in 3 Seasons!!
RBI: too easy
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Soriano is NOT the exact same batter as Aramis.
This is a prime example of the stats not telling the whole story.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Right
Aramis has been a lot more consistent over his career. 0-for-25 streaks? Name a hitter who doesn’t have a cold streak like that.
I love it
Soriano has a cold streak and he’s the devil
Aramis goes 0-25 “could happen to anyone”
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
You named...
You are really going to say Soriano and Aram have the same amount of cold streaks? Really?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Soriano's cold streak was not 25 AB's long!
You’re being ridiculous by suggesting that all Soriano had this an 8-10 game slump. He went over 2 months where his OPS dropped from 1.046 (April 28) all the way down to .699 (July 4). That isn’t just any slump.
I’m not saying we should DFA him, but he and Aramis are only similar when you aggregate the stats over the course of a long season. If you take single month chunks of Soriano’s season, one month his stats will resemble Pete Rose, and another month they’ll be more like Aaron Miles. You don’t get that wild of swings with Aramis.
I think the peps..
In this convo agree not to DFA him. i think we are blown away by nji232 comparing Aram and Soriano.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Agree.
Also, above nji made the comparison of defensive skills being similarly bad. Very much diasgree with that, Ramirez plays a good third base.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait, what? Small sample sizes okay now?
he and Aramis are only similar when you aggregate the stats over the course of a long season.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
you mean
like when Rami was out of the picture for over 50 games?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Not the same and you know it
He wasn’t making outs. He wasn’t filling a spot in the lineup that opposing teams knew they had nothing to fear from. He wasn’t responsible for ending rallies. We could theoretically have filled his spot with a replacement player who would have performed at league average levels (of course, we did not). That’s not Aramis’s fault.
Sori’s contract more or less demands that he play every day if he’s not on the DL. For 2 months of this season that meant we had a player who was playing well below average filling that spot.
Who here wants Soriano up with the game on the line
and who wants Aram?
Me I want Pujols, but what the heck hey, ha
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
They are not the same hitter.
When their careers end, saying they had similar career stats is okay. Soriano was a similar hitter to Ramirez in the years of 02-07. In 08 & 09, he’s Fukudome with more power and less dicipline. His 09 numbers compare to Hoffpauir.
Any discussion of Soriano is him as the player today, not what he did with the Yankees, Rangers, or Nationals.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Aug 12, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I was getting at
Any discussion of Soriano is him as the player today, not what he did with the Yankees, Rangers, or Nationals.
You put it more concisely.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
This season is the first one that there has been a real difference
and I have no problem admitting that this season there is a gap.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I hope it's an outlier for Soriano
And not the beginning of the end
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see any comparison Soriano's Cub years of 07, 08 or 09
with Ramirez Cub years. Even in Soriano’s peak years pre-Cubs, he had similar numbers, but struck out twice as often.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Why are strikeouts such a bad thing?
They produce the same out as a grounder or a flyout most of the time, and never create the double play a grounder could. I would go as far as say that in some situations (say bases loaded one out) a strikeout is a better outcome than a groundout.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Because Ramirez
does his job. He improved his defense and is a 100+ RBI guy when healthy. Sori leads OF in errors and plays a lazy RF. The only thing he has worked on is the hop.
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Love Sori or hate him
His contract at least for the next 4 years makes him unmovable. We all just need to hope he adjusts, he hustles more and will play at least a decent LF.
Only way this guy goes away if the Cubs would take on another god-awful contract, Veron Wells, or Zito to throw out some examples.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Someone needs to shake some sense into Soriano.
His contract is not very likable. He needs to hustle his ass out of the box. His “lack of hustle” in the outfield is fine by me, because it’s not that he’s not hustling, rather trying not to overplay balls. I think he’s capable of improving his range/route taking, but he’s really stubborn.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Wow
I agree with what you’re saying but respectfully disagree with the “overplaying balls” thing. He’s not hustling in the OF because he doesn’t hustle in the OF. His lackadaisical defensive effort isn’t because he’s trying to avoid playing balls into extra base hits. He does that often enough.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Oh, I dunno...
…I had lunch with Soriano’s contract just the other day and found it very likable.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Derrek Lee's NTC set us up.
It ordered the chicken but put away three vodka tonics (not sure what’s up with that). I just posted on its Facebook wall – I hope it comments back!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
If you don't think Soto has been ripped on
Then you haven’t been paying attention.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank you. Come again.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Pretty sad when we get 17 hits on the road and lose...
The Phillies on the other hand get 3 hits on the road and win. I’m sorry, but this team is going nowhere. Honestly, they don’t deserve to.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
670 score
Talking about how Milty was being taunted by fans and how he was flicking off fans in the 5th inning. Anyone know anything about this?
by china423 on Aug 12, 2009 8:32 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I don't.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
of course
they have to find something to jeer the guy about. especially when he had a great game on the field
Could of been Philly fans
I am sure they were out there. Milton is playing quite well, he is busting his ass.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Philly fans?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Distinct possibility.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Are we really starting Spellcheck tonight?
Thank goodness the Phils are actually matching up Pedro tonight. If we don’t score 5+ runs tonight, that’s just pathetic
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 12, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions
Yes, yes we are.
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
Pedro going for the Phils,
it will be interesting to see what he brings
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
Yeah, I could see tonight's game being a disaster for BOTH teams re: starting pitching.
Let’s hope the Shark has been preparing diligently and pleasantly surprises us.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I'm going to be pessimisticly optimistic.
Pleasantly surprised will be 5 innings and 4 or less runs (earned or unearned).
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Irony
Before the season started, Marmol was the fireman everyone wanted. A lot of folks discussed how his role was more important than Gregg’s. He was the guy that we all felt comfortable coming in with runners on and getting out of the Jam. Now, he has become the fire starter. When you can’t throw your fastball for strikes, the control issues will never go away.
They better figure out whether Guzman can handle the late inning pressure because Marmol as a closer next year looks a little more sketchy.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
Good point. Maybe Marmol needs the regularity of
a closer role and the knowledge of the specific situation he’s coming in?
Setup/Fireman is pretty regular, but not the same.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Has Lou become senile or does he know something we don't?
After hearing the game this morning via MLB game audio at work this morning: I honestly don’t understand how a team which is hitting as well as the Cubs are, fail to score more runs. And please don’t even talk to me about the relief pitching.
As much as I understand that the high number of injuries have not made things any easier and that the Cubs nonetheless are still contenders, I no longer understand the coaching, Lou or Hendry. And the “hick hack” surrounding the sale of the club is more than lame as an excuse. So, has Lou become senile or does he know something we don’t?
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
um, what is a "hick hack"?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Hick Hack is...
German slang and not really translatable. Unfortunately no English equivalent occurred to me as I wrote the above.
It is a mixture of squabbles, argy-bargy (British slang), bickering and “small hidden fouls.”
Hick Hack is also often spelt Hickhack.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Thanks, I've never heard of that before.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Kinda like a brouhaha?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
more of a
flittertygibbet.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
correct
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
So it's not a rural Alfonso Soriano, then.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Piniella is asleep at the wheel
Absolutely indefensible to not have Grabow warming up in the 8th. His responsibilty is to be aware of what/who is coming up in a tie game. Lou is actually worse than Dusty for cryin out loud. This season is over folks……….this is simply a mediocre baseball team.
Ricketts needs to come in and bust this thing up. Trade every tradeable commodity……..Zambrano, Ram, Marmol, Lilly………..anyone making big $$ that another club will take. Stockpile some young talent……take our beatings for a couple years until they can rid themselves of the untradeable bums that are making the big bucks. The biggest issue down the line is the 5 friikin years left with that piece of shit garbage in LF. There is NO defending that trash either……..he is without a doubt the worst contract in Cub history. Let him play out his contract with ALL rookies.
"Stockpile some young talent"
Good idea, but the Cubs have shown that they are not very good at doing this. Take a look at the farm system and draft picks over the last few years. Not pretty.
by salparadise23 on Aug 12, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm saying that
in hopes that Ricketts brings someone in who can perform that task
We can complain about the pitching decisions all we want,
but the bottom line is the Cubs left 12 on base again last night. When they got one run in during the third inning and then had the bases loaded and only got one more run in on a sac fly—that is not Lou’s fault. When this team has a chance for a big inning, it just doesn’t deliver. Lots of hits, but rarely timely ones. I think the third inning was the downfall of the game. The Cubs had the chance to bury a tough pitcher and did not.
At some point relief pitchers will fail (this is not a comment on Marmol, who is failing most of the time these days). What I am addressing here are the comments on Gregg and other decisions. What difference does it make (in terms of buttons Lou pushes) if the Cubs are not going to get big hits with RISP. Lou can not hit for these guys.
"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."
-- Dan Quayle
by LAcarl519 on Aug 12, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I felt the same thing sitting there last night in regards to the bullpen.
And after driving through the night, getting home at 3:30, and sitting at a computer screen now trying to wake up, it still stings.
What a waste of an 8th inning – I don’t know if the bullpen phone was broken, but Lester Strode had to go the dugout twice during the game – once in the 8th inning and later in extras. I hope that didn’t contribute to Grabow getting up late.
The thing that sticks with me, besides Lou’s gaffe in the 8th, is these are the types of games that separate Philadelphia and the Cubs right now. The Phillies capitalized on virtually every opportunity – turning 3 hits into 4 runs is impressive. The Cubs, on the other hand, did not, to be succinct.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Well...
One could say Marmol gave the Phils 4 runners in the 8th, but they didn’t get any more than was given to them.
Overall, yeah, it sucked. But the Cubs aren’t the only team that does it. They just seem to be the best at it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I know.
I just look at the Phillies ‘grind-it-out’ mentality and don’t really see that in this team right now (and that could very well be because they’ve lost 7 of 11). Honestly, I don’t see Soriano looking at 4 straight pitches with the bases loaded and a pitcher melting down on the mound like Ryan Howard did.
Philadelphia found a way to win a game they had no business winning, which I think is what separates them from the Cubs at this moment in the season.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 12, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep.
Soriano was more patient earlier in the year.
The whole walking philosophy seems to have gone by the boards. Unfortunately, so has the scoring and winning.
You hit it on the head – the Cubs don’t find ways to win. Sometimes, they find ways to lose.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Walks do seem to have gone by the board, though the Cubs had 4 last night, all against Happ. Hopefully, they’re just as patient versus Pedro tonight, since the Philadelphia bullpen is close to cooked.
And if those two line drives in the 1st and 2nd get through, maybe we’re all happy today. Last night just felt like a “stealing defeat from the jaws of victory” type of games.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Yes, can't do much about the "at'em" balls
I suppose that brings me back to Fuld’s at-bat.
And it wasn’t Fuld’s fault they lost – that was just the most frustrating AB for me.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Fuld's probably was for me, too.
Those line drives probably balance out over the course of the season.
Fuld’s skill set doesn’t exactly include driving the ball. I know Harden was on deck, but why Lou couldn’t try a hit-and-run or have Fuld bunt for a hit is beyond me.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Or even sacrifice and pinch-hit
Since he’s so averse to letting Harden go deep in games. Shocking that he was allowed the 7th.
(Actually, I’m not a big fan of the sacrifice with a man on first and none out. I would have preferred Theriot to swing away/hit and run in the 9th)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
It comes down to knowing the skill-set, in my opinion.
Fuld is a speedy lefty who can bunt. Why not let him do that?
Grabow is a lefty, who despite what the numbers say, can get LHBs out. Why not let him do that?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Stubborness
7th inning – Guzman
8th inning – Marmol
9th inning – Gregg
I HATE that automatic managing. A chimp could do it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, let's not get silly
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It does seem that way.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
When the three pitchers are on, that system works.
When they struggle, the formula needs alteration.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
That's the problem with the formula
Too many sit back after plugging the variables in and don’t adjust.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano's
Sac Fly was a rope, I had to listen to the Philly announcers, and they all commented how lucky the Phils were that ball was lifted or just left or right of Ibanez a different outcome for sure.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Meh
I’m not being overly critcial of Soriano here, but all he really did with that pitch was roll over on a 2-0 cookie. Yes it was hit harder than most balls he’s hit in awhile but in fairness, he was ahead in the count on 2-0 with the bases loaded and the Phillies were able to challenge him and get an out at the cost of only one run.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
right
because when we win, it’s luck, not skill, and when they win, it’s because we suck.
o.0
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
This really does seem to be the attitude of many fans.
God forbid an opposing team gets any credit for playing well.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Justin Lehr, for example
The Reds pitcher who shut out the Cubs last week? Held the Cardinals to one run last night. Guess maybe it wasn’t a fluke, but all I heard last week was that the Cubs were sleepwalking through that game. That Lehr might have pitched a good game simply wasn’t possible, according to the denizens of Ignorant Cubs Fan land.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I think a lot of teams
say that after facing Randy Wells.
Pineiro's CG shutout is another example.
He went on to pitch a couple more of those this season. I just think it’s sad and rather curious that so many fans’ first reaction to struggles is to turn on and devour their own team.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
pineiros CG shut out came around the time the major offensive struggles occured (aka 8 game losing streak)
so anyone who did turn on and devour their own team should be fortune tellers
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, that was the beginning of the nightmare.
But that’s beside the point – the Cardinals deserve credit for pitching very well in that series. Yet that’s the last thing you’ll hear from many fans.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Then what would we all have to complain about?
This place would be a ghost-board!
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
Once again
Call it whatever you want. 2-0 cookies are supposed to be hit hard. But you already know that.
And let’s go over this again. I don’t use the word “suck”. Ever. That is reserved for people that have never played the game, that may have played the game and hit .080 in little league or those that generally don’t understand professional sports. Feel free to use the word all you want Drew.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
so the pitcher
threw him a ball that he was supposed to hit?
And I’m the one who doesn’t know anything about the game?
I stand by my original statement. Take out the word “suck” if you insist, and replace it with “overbearing, arrogant martinet” if you like. But it won’t scan.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Stupid Soriano
hitting a bullet to the OF on a line. Shouldn’t he know better, shouldn’t he move the ball with his mind. With that contract he has, you would hope he knows how to do that.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
My best guess about Lou's stubborn insistence on leaving Marmol in games...
…is that Lou still sees Carlos Marmol as his primary setup guy – in other words, Marmol is, in Lou’s view, a nonsituational pitcher. He starts the inning (or comes in to put out a fire) and he finishes the inning.
Now I would argue that any pitcher who still as a 8.7 BB/9 and 1.528 WHIP on August 11 should no longer be considered untouchable in any inning. Lou needs to start getting the most he can from Carlos and then get him the hell out of there when the situation warrants it. I guess we’ll just have to see whether Lou realized this last night.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I doubt it
He continued to put Howry in last year, He continues to use Heilman in situations where he fails (coming in with Runners on).
The last two seasons he seems to have gotten away from the philosophy that we are going to play the best players and put them in situations where they are successful. He did this in 07 when he essentially blew up the bullpen during the middle of the season and brought in guys like Marmol, etc to balance it out.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Aug 12, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I am more afraid of tonight's ESPN telecast + Jeff Samardzija starting + Pedro Martinez love.
It could turn ugly real quick.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Who's doing play-by-play?
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
I know he isn't good anymore
But I do love me some Pedro.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I'd love to hear BCB's opinion on this.
What sort of contract would you give Rich Harden to keep him? Or would you give him any contract at all? It appears he’s going to make 28 starts or so this year.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I'd like to show Rich Harden the door
Unless he took arbitration. I’m glad he’s turned it around and realized its his contract season, but its his contract season.
Some team will offer him more money, and quite frankly they can enjoy that.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
That makes the most sense.
He’s straight out of the Prior/Wood play book. Bc when he’s on, he’s sick. But we have dealt with too many of those guys over the last decade, so it’s probably not worth the heartache.
I just don’t think Randy Wells is going to have a good sophmore campaign. Which leaves us with Demp, Z, and Lilly. I’m not sold on Marshall whatsoever.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I would offer him a $5M base, incentive-laden contract
And I suspect he’d tell me to pound sand.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
The offer?
Or him telling me to pound sand?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
He may not go for a 1-year deal, though
Unless he thinks he needs a good year to make himself more appealing on the open market.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends on what is available on the market
and how Wells finishes. If we could get Harden to pitch like last night, I think he is as good as anyone in the NL. Does he want to stay in Chicago is another question because we could get a little discount. We already have one $18 million dollar 7 win pitcher so I say if we can get him for $12-13 million is an acceptable deal.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
$12-13 million?
Wow. I’m not being snarky, but wow. Over how many years? I certainly don’t think he’ll sign for anything less than 3 years.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I'd give him 2 years with a binding third year based on games started
This way, you’d be protected from injury. If the Cubs could go 3 years, $24 million (third year optional), I’d be happy, I think.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I'd be down with that too.
But I think he’ll get more money somewhere else. I don’t think he likes Chicago enough to give any sort of hometown discount.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Yeah, I can see him getting $10 per year, if not more.
A lot probably depends on the economy, too.
The one in the Cubs’ favor is that the training staff does seem to have a pretty good handle on how to keep Harden healthy, and if that is important to him, he may be willing to take a little less, knowing that if healthy, he’ll make more in the third year.
Would you do a 3 year, $30 million contract, if it was 2/$16 for the first two years with a binding third year (1/$14) based on games started?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I think I would.
Z, Dempster, and Lilly all seem to be durable enough to take on an injury-prone guy like Harden. If he makes 28 starts a year, he’s worth it to me.
Then again, that would be two more years of defending him on BCB. Not sure I can put up with that haha.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I think I would make that deal, too.
Especially if the Cubs’ training staff could continue to keep him healthy. That partial tear in the shoulder may scare some teams off, too.
The amount of homeruns he’s allowed this year seems a tad flukey to me, and if those come down next year, he could be poised for a fantastic season.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I agree
I don’t know who else you slot in Harden’s spot if he were to go. He’s proven that when he has good arm strength, as he does right now, he’s as good as they get. He just doesn’t always have the same arm strength. He’s certainly an enigma….but very talented.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Seems pretty reasonable.
He is a great pitcher.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
+1
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe this point has been made ...
but I didn’t see it in Al’s recap. I agree Lou messed up last night. But 10 hits and only three runs?
I know that Soto and Theriot both lined out with the bases loaded, as opposed to going all Aaron Miles on us. But we need better clutch hitting. The fact that we didn’t really get it in the early innings is JUST as significant as Marmol in the eighth.
Yeah, I figured...
… the 12 men left on base was pretty obvious. Could have had 4 or 5 runs early and put the game away.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Getting guys on is definitley not the problem
I’ve never seen anything like this inability to score with RISP. It’s so painful.
Quite honestly...
We could write a very, very long book about all of the problems associated with this pathetic team.
Plus, Piniella’s here through 2010. Do you honestly think he’ll be gone after this season? I don’t think Piniella knew what he was getting himself into.
depends on how things shake out
If we make the playoffs again, regardless of the result, I think he’s back. If not, I could see him resigning.
I am sorry but
the Cubs simply cannot beat a good team even when they lay down. Injuries, underperforming, whatever. They refuse to make a statement and put it together. I am glad to see Al’s frustration in this post. It is long over due. Our boys need to believe they can win and I am not sure that they do. But we will be here, and we will root.
when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."
It's all about Aram.
They are a completely different team with/without him. If Aram can play out the season at 80%, they make the playoffs.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Agreed.
He’s got to try to tough it out at least till the beginning of September.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wouldn't that risk a long-term injury?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I’m no world-class athlete like Ramirez, but I’ve gone through shoulder dislocation and surgery to repair it. The “soreness” he’s feeling right now is a result of a partial separation, which will become increasingly common as the tendons and muscles “learn” the path to separate. The only solution is surgery. If he goes under the knife now, he’ll be at 100 percent come February and his shoulder won’t dislocate or separate any more.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Partly agree
I think it’s nonsense that a team with as large a payroll as the Cubs have must claim reliance on only one guy for ultimate success of their offense. Unless of course the “Ramirez is key” commentary implicitly admits that Soriano is an absolute failure and cannot carry this club. I believe such commentary does already implicity state this…as does the fact that they have to hide him in the six-hole.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I'm not a stats wizard...
…but I’d guess they’d speak for themselves.
For whatever reason, Sori seems to produce with Aram in the lineup. And he’s not the only one like this, if I recall correctly, Manny and Papi were always like this too. (Insert steriod joke here).
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Really
this game has been a photo copy of the season so far.
Runners on in the first and second, two ropes by Soto and Theriot, no runs.
Soriano rips a seed to left, that ball hit 5 feet left or right of Ibanez scores at least two, Cubs only get the sac fly.
Marmol once again is brutal, and Lou once again just keeps watching from the dugout exploding.
Gregg once again gives up a homerun to lose a game
Cubs hitters fail again to hit a decent bullpen.
Miles is used once again where Glenn Beckert would have been better.
The recap, the results have been way to familiar.
This one hurt, I don’t see how this team will rebound, the matchups the rest of this series are not favorable at all.
And I really do thing Lou needs to move on, a fresh face, a young mind is needed.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
agreed, mostly
But, really, who the hell knows what Pedro’s capable of? I don’t know whether the matchup is in the Phillies’ favor or not.
We can blame Lou's management of the pitchers and the bullpen all we want
and I agree with everything that has been said regarding how things were handled from the 8th inning on last night…but the bottom line is we’ve got to start hitting with runners on base. This one was on the offense. Once again, we get more than 10 hits, and lose to a team that only got 3. I know A-Ram is our clutch RBI guy, but everyone else needs to step it up while he is out. Our performance with RISP is a complete embarassment. Bases loaded, nobody out…and we only get 1 run, and frankly, and I was relieved we were able to even accomplish that much. Once again, 12 men left on base. That’s not going to cut it.
And for all the “Fire Lou” crowd…Are you nuts? Yes, he seems to be losing it at times, and yes, he’s made some real dumb moves this year, including not going to the LOOGY last night, but he’s also won back to back division titles and has us in contention to go to the playoffs again this year. His record is better than any other Cub manager in recent history. Let’s see how this plays out before calling for Lou’s head.
My most sincere apologies to those at the game thread last night
I got up to make dinner and the no-no was broken almost immediately. I put this loss squarely on me. I promise I won’t do any more rookie mistakes like last night’s. I will approach this game the way it deserves to be.
Again, I’m very sorry.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Look, what else can I do? You try going out there and managing.
Look, I said I was sorry. Look, it won’t happen again. Look, I have always put the team in front of my needs.
Just in case: /sarcasm/
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
eatings for chumps
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Al, Great read!
This site has quickly become my recap / news source of late. The info you need. Also, Fuld batting with two outs late in the game and Dome on deck to pinch..yet takes the field the following half?? Hill to pinch hit may have been something to think about as well (like you said). Baker is doing quite well hope this is the end of the font era. New rule – If Marmnull is in the game or warming up, use the buddy system. Right now he simply cant swim.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
I believe...
…Lou did a double switch. Dome in for the pitcher, replacing Fuld in center, the pitcher took Fuld’s spot. No?
But I agree, Dome should have been up in that spot instead of Fuld. Play for the win at home.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
If Lou doesn't double switch Dome into the game,
Guzman would not have been able to pitch 2 innings without batting in the bottom of the inning.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what Lou did with the double switch.
It made some sense at the time. If Fukudome had hit for Fuld and been retired (or reached base), then the pitcher’s spot comes up and the Cubs burn another player off the bench.
By letting Fuld hit, the Cubs were protected if he reached base by only having to use 1 player off the bench instead of 2 had Fukudome hit for him.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 12, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you are correct
Dome in place of Fuld.. gets on base.. Hill to PH..would have been ideal.. 20/20
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 12, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I could swear I saw Lou chawing on a toothpick
when Marmol was imploding last night. AND what on GOD’S GREEN EARTH is the PITCHING COACH doing that entire time?! I swear he’s a day late and a dollar short.
Yeah, they gotta hit with runners on base. Yeah, I’d be ranting about that if it occurred in innings 8 & 9. But they were in position to win, possibly in regulation. AND the COACHES sat there and watched Marmol implode. Unacceptable, completely unacceptable!
Just win the next game...!
Rotshchild
You mean Larry isn’t tethered to Marmol? I guess it only seems that way since he makes a trip to the mound in nearly every one of his appearances.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I suggested in the overflow thread
that Marmol needs to be DL’d just so he can get some time “rehabbing” in AAA. NBF asked me what he would be DL’d for?
His brain.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
Someone suggested to me last night...
… that maybe Marmol needs glasses, like Guzman.
Could it be possible that he has vision problems?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Pitching
is done more by “feel”. Besides, do you really believe that Marmol’s vision has deteriorated that much from last year? If so, he likely has a physical ailment beyond just loss of command.
I thought Marmol’s mechanics were messed up in ST and what little I have seen of him during the season, they STILL look off to me. He has a very unusual delivery and it is hard for him to maintain balance and have a consistent release point. I’m no pitching coach, but those seem to be the problem areas to my eyes.
It's possible vision could deteriorate, yes.
Why did Guzman need glasses all of a sudden?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No
It is very unusual for someone’s vision to significant deteriorate in their 20s in 1 year unless there is an underlying physical cause.
I have no idea what the deal was with Guzman, but it is possible he needed correction all along and just didn’t realize it. The difference with Marmol is that he was so effective last year and not this year. I still think it is mechanics.
It's a mechanical thing. He's trying to overthrow sliders.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 12, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Someone's got to tell White Castle not to overcook
the sliders.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Eddie Harris: [looking at Vaughn’s new glasses] Hey, man, they look nice. I had a pair just like them.
Rick Vaughn: Well, after the game I’m gonna go pick out a pair that’s more me.
Eddie Harris: Good luck.
Lou Brown: They look good. Besides, seeing is the most important thing, son.
Willie Mays Hayes: I don’t think it’s that important.
when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."
by 1060 W Addison on Aug 12, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I really believe he's over-thinking
It seems as if he knows he has a bit of a control issue and tries to compensate. When he does, he misses more often (and in the case of Victorino, badly; but it wasn’t a HBP).
I don’t think it’s his eyesight but his mechanics suffering from trying to compensate for some delivery issues.
It also seems at times that he’s trying to overthrow (speed-wise) some pitches.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 12, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes
Agree on the over-throwing. That was my observation also. He flies open when he does that and it throws his balance off which in turn alters his release point. Result: pitches nowhere near the strike zone. Eyeglasses won’t help with that.
Also, I noted Marmol seemed really upset with a couple of calls on close pitches, but as we all know, if you are having control issues, you are not going to get the close ones.
No
When you’re ahead in the count and a high fastball is called for and you pull it so far that it ends up in the middle of the left-hand batter’s box, it’s not a vision thing.
As an aside, I only saw one replay last night and didn’t look close enough but I’d like to revisit that again. I don’t think Victorino was hit by that pitch. That was a particularly big play that hasn’t been mentioned. Someone help me with that replay. Did he really get hit or was it so wild that it was just assumed he was hit?
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
No
The problem is obvious. You don’t need glasses to see it.
Carlos Marmol throws more innings than most relievers. He throws more pitches per inning than most relievers.
overworked.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Just like some have been saying for a long time
Lou abused his poor arm,and now we are paying for it.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
But did Marmol walk the world when he first came up in 2006?
That’s why I’m not convinced his lack of command is due to being overworked.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I try to forgot 2006
I do think Marmol has always had command issues, but overwork is something that can make those problems worse.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
BB/9
2006: 6.9
2007: 4.5
2008: 4.2
2009: 8.7
stats
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
for what its worth
in 2006 as a reliever his BB/9 was 3.86
again its a very small sample (9 1/3 IP), but comparing his ‘06 BB/9 when he was starting to when he was primarily a RP isn’t really fair
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
good catch
as he split starting and bp work. The outlier in his history is THIS season.
3.86
Wow, makes the current 8.7 all that more shocking.
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
Those are very interesting numbers.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You can say anxiety disorder to get on the DL these days, so anything is possible.
And there are certainly times when Marmol looks a tad anxious, I would say.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 12, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't care WHAT we call it
just get him a week off, and then let him go pitch in peoria for a week. Use Marshall or Grabow as the 7th inning guy, Guzman as the 8th, and Gregg in the 9th. Bring Marmol back up in two weeks, see what happens.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be opposed.
This on-again, off-again highwire act needs to be sorted out, and I don’t think it’s going to be solved at the Major League level.
Perhaps going to Iowa or wherever and learning to trust his stuff and that he can throw strikes past hitters would truly help.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 12, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Put him in a mop-up role
or in the 6th inning where a lesser-caliber pitcher would normally be. Make him aware he can’t keep F-ing up.
But Lou, Lou buddy, pal, friend…you or your pitching coach has to get off your collective asses and get someone in the ’pen up earlier.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 12, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Not a bad idea.
Cubs should consider all options at this point.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
You could DL him for anything
The Cubs have been inventing injuries for years now
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I think Marmol strained his calf coming of the mound...
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
Yeah, he likes to show it off...
…but I keep telling him not to pull on its leash so hard. There’s no grass for it to eat on the mound anyway.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Phillies Radio Broadcast
I listened to the Phillies radio team (I was pretty impressed with them) and they also expressed dismay on why Lou didn’t get Grabow up earlier, forcing Marmol to face Howard.
They also pointed out that Bradley seemed to be having a hard time picking up the ball off the bat, forcing him to make diving catches on balls that normally would have been more routine.
They Phillies broadcasters expressed "dismay"
and why Lou did put Grabow in earlier or surprise ? I wouldn’t exactly expect the Phillies broadcasters to be sorry that he left Marmol in to walk in the run.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
They expressed dismay
that Piniella waited so long to get Grabow up when it was obvious that Marmol was struggling. Not getting Grabow up meant he wasn’t ready to come in to face Howard.
It’s not about announcers being sorry, it was them reporting an obvious asleep at the wheel moment for Lou.
Perhaps to Jessica's point,
“Surprise” would be a better choice.
Dismay implies that they were upset about it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Indeed, that would be
a better word.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
My reaction to it, however
was dismay.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
"Surprise"
isn’t the right word, either. The Phillies color guy said it was “unfathomable” to him that the Cubs didn’t have Grabow up earlier, given that Marmol couldn’t find the plate. He really drove this point home, and this was before Grabow finally did come in and promptly struck out the only guy he faced.
"unfathomable" works for me
I think many of us find Lou’s moved unfathomable.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Astonishment?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Criminal!!
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
If you think Piniella is bad
be glad you aren’t a Mets fan. I saw something in the Mets-D’backs game last night I have never seen before.
The Mets, trailing 5-2 in the 7th inning, brought in Feliciano, who has been, by far, their best relief pitcher this year. He gets through the bottom of the 7th and then, after the Mets had batted, came out to start the bottom of the 8th. After he had thrown a couple of warm up pitches, the home plate umpire, C.B. Bucknor comes to the mound to inform Feliciano that a new pitcher is coming in from the bullpen and he is done for the night.
Apparently, neither the manager or the pitching coach had bothered to inform him that his night was done. The color man on the D’Backs radio broadcast, Tom Candiotti was beside himself over this. He called it “unacceptable” and “unprofessional”.
I tend to agree.
FWIW, the Mets are HORRIBLE right now. Even worse than the AAA Pirates.
RE: "be glad you aren't a Mets fan."
My. Head. Is. Ready. To. Explode.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
There is a story like that
about the 62 Mets that I posted recently. In one inning the Mets blew 4 double plays and Stengel decided for the sake of the guys sanity not to put the pitcher back in the next inning only he forgot to tell him. The pitcher is on the mound throwing warm ups and hears the PA announcer say “now pitching for the Mets etc” which is how he finds out he is out of the game. He walks off the mount and says in a loud voice “Everyone here is crazy”
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Happened to me in little league
had to play all players 3 innings back then, I had played 3 innings but the coach didn’t say anything to me so I went out for the 4th inning. He then remembered when I made it all the way out to right field and called me back in in front of everyone. That was probably the most embarrassed I’ve been in athletics in my life.
For it to happen in the major leagues is unacceptable.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I would be curious
to know, what, if anything, the NY papers had to say about this today. The D’Backs TV guys missed it altogether (Sutton and Gracie are too busy with frat banter), but the radio guys were all over it.
I wake up everyday grateful that I am not a Mets fan.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I was at the game
here on Monday night and I was really shocked how many Mets fans there were. They made a lot of noise, too (man, those NYers have leather lungs when it comes to cheering). But, walking out of the stadium after the game, in which the Mets were completely out-hustled by a D-Backs line-up made up mostly of guys who were in AAA and AA earlier this year, the Mets fans had shell-shocked looks on their faces.
Don’t know if it is news nationally, but locally the big news is this guy from Australia who is a career minor league guy who is getting his first shot in the bigs – he came within a HR of hitting for the cycle last night. Is 12-24 in 5 games with 3 HRs. It is a fun Cinderella story.
It is a fun Cinderella story.
reminds me of bobby scales..
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
and what makes it even more fun is when they interview him and he has that pronounced Australian accent.
After game last night they asked him if he was thinking home run in his last at bat as that would have given him the cycle (he singled for a 4 hit game instead)…he said, “I’d be lyin’ if I said it wasn’t in the back of me mind, mate.”
Yeah, except Oeltjen is 24 years old and an actual prospect.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Lou concerns me now
His post-game hissy had the sound of a beaten man who now manages “not to lose”. Consequently this has carried over into the team’s performance.
In fact, playing not to lose might explain the Cubs’ failures in the past two postseasons – everybody being caught up in the 100-year thing and excessively worrying about not becoming the new Leon Durham or Alex Gonzalez.
And another thing: how can Lou intimate that he had no idea how hard it is managing on the North Side? The guy has been involved with baseball his whole life! Who in MLB doesn’t know about the futility and frustration surrounding Wrigley Field? Why do lifers like Lou and Dusty and Baylor act like they never saw this coming?
Selbstüberschätzung???
Selbstüberschätzung = “overestimation of one’s own capabilities”
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Danke schön
Gesundheit is the correct spelling – Geshundteit sound like something “dog-like” in German.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Lisa: Dad, do you know what schadenfreude is?
Homer: No, I do not know what shaden-frawde is. Please tell me, because I’m dying to know.
Lisa: It’s a German term for "shameful joy," taking pleasure in the suffering of others.
Homer: Oh, come on, Lisa. I’m just glad to see him fall flat on his butt. He’s usually all happy and comfortable, and surrounded by loved ones, and it makes me feel. … What’s the opposite of that shameful joy thing of yours?
Lisa: Sour grapes.
Homer: Boy, those Germans have a word for everything.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
well put.
I agree with this.
when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."
by 1060 W Addison on Aug 12, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
CaliCubs' comment above that is.
when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."
by 1060 W Addison on Aug 12, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree Cali
Everyone knows that the Cubs have had injuries. On the pregame show prior to the Cubs/Rockies on Monday, he constantly sighed, and mentioned the injuries several times.
Ramy out of the lineup sucks, but damn Lou, you really have had a poor year yourself.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
-1
I am not ready to toss Lou on the scrap heap, as you are.
He has made a difference these last two years. Especially 2007, where they had to be patient over months and come from behind. That represented a new attitude for the modern Cubs.
How could he not express frustration after last night’s game?
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Lou, like Hendry, will be known for transitioning the Cubs to greatness
I’m not sure they’ll be the ones to deliver the team to the promised land, but I think history will show that they were essential ingredients to getting the franchise back on track.
Because he stinks?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Naw, but that qualifies him as a free agent target.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
no he can fill in for ram at third if the situation presents itself, he's better than baker/fontenot
COOL BEANS!
by lexmarklover on Aug 12, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I think if Rami is shelved (heaven forbid)....
….the job is Fox’s the rest of the season.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 12, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Pretty amazing considering he's only walked 3x and K'd 14 times in those same
52 at bats. He’s hitting like a good utility guy, but striking out like a thumper.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
The guy hits the ball hard.
Me likey.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
JA Happ's bunt
Derrick Lee was so far in on his bunt that he could have easily pretended like he was going to catch that ball, then got it on a short hop and turned a double play by throwing to first where Baker was almost to the base, then getting the runner in a tag play at second or a rundown.
Lee is a talented fielder but there is the possibility I guess that he was charging so hard it would have been tough for him to stop his momentum, but it did look like to me that he slid for the fun of it, in a sense.
I know you take the sure out when you can and the way Harden had been throwing you don’t expect a 2 run bomb from Rollins there but it was a missed opportunity in my mind.
Its a funny story actually.
One rule players learn from the 1st day of little league
Don’t throw away outs. If a team is going to give you an out, take it. Too many things can go wrong with D-Lee hauling ass in to get the ball then trying to turn a 3-6-1 or a 3-6-4 DP.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 12, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I couldn't tell how bad he had to haul ass
It looked like he was in pretty good position, TV does not show the angles very well.
And I mentioned that I know you are taught to get outs when they are given, but I am pretty sure one of our better defenders could handle a short hopped bunt and make a good throw.
Its a funny story actually.
He ended up doing a half-dive
and tore up a nice divot.
Now…if he were a left-handed thrower, I’d love to have seen the attempt to let it drop and throw to 2nd in an attempt at a DP. However… being a right-handed thrower I think he did the right thing. If there’s one guy on that team that I don’t worry about defence, it’s D-Lee.
Just win the next game...!
Lee's feet slipped from underneath him
He tried to stop charging as the bunt came to him, and the turf gave way underneath. I don’t think he could have intentionally fallen and then turned a double play.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 12, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Jeesh,
imagine the outcry if he tried a tricky showboat play like the one suggested and messed it up.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I can only imagine...
The infield sod got pretty beat up last night, with Lee taking a chunk of the turf on that catch and Harden’s bat impaling the infield during an at bat, too.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 12, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Yah I saw that
But there are times when this play could be executed very easily.
Happ assumed he would catch it and didn’t run, while the guy on first had to take a step back towards first in because he was going to catch it.
Watching on TV I couldn’t get a good feel for how hard DLee was actually charging/sliding, just that he slid.
And I for one would like to see this team be a little aggressive in situations like this, especially with one of your better defenders.
Its a funny story actually.
I watched it live and the replays.
I didn’t see him slide so much as trip and attempt to keep the glove on the ball. It looked pretty awkward, enough that I was concerned about his back when he stood up.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Thats fair
I saw the play once, and noticed it was the perfect bad punt to attempt the play. But if he slipped (did it rain in chicago recently?) then yah, catch the ball and hope Harden gets Rollins.
Its a funny story actually.
No, but the weather was odd with lower temps but
really high humidity.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
i dont think he wanted to risk losing the no no for richie
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
This was not on Kevin Gregg
People need to lay off him. He is on pace for an all-time in appearances. He is not expected to be pitching multiple innings. He is the closer. He is not the long reliever one day and the closer the next. He pitched a scoreless inning before the homerun. How long is he supposed to hold the best hitting team in baseball?
This is 100% on Lou. He has two lefties now in the pen and didn’t use them. What are they for?
Don’t get me started on Miles.
Explaination
can someone explain to me how the Pirates can beat the Rockies in Denver, but the Cubs can’t?.
Horrible defense, starting pitching, and lack of RISP hits.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
That's baseball?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Every team goes up, every team comes down.
Let’s hope the Reds are getting, well, red hot.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
The Reds did win two out of three in San Francisco last weekend
including starts by Cain and Lincecum.
That’s why baseball is such a great game. You really never know what’s going to happen.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Bad pitching matchup (from the Cubs point of view) tonight:
Chris Carpenter vs. Homer Bailey
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I foresee a 12-0 game
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
What makes it great also makes it maddening
Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, but I’ve come to dislike uncertainty and surprises and not knowing what’s going to happen. I find myself rapidly losing the patience to watch a game like baseball because of not knowing what’s going to happen.
Now, of course other sports (outside of pro wrestling) don’t guarantee the outcomes; however in football there seems to be a greater degree of probability ahead of time. That makes viewing a lot easier on my nerves!
I'm exactly the same way
It’s exhausting for me to watch too many Cub games cause there are so many variables involved in the outcome of games. The season is way too long, and it takes an eternity to find out if they’ll make the playoffs or not. Football is so quick and decisive that it makes for someone with ADD, like myself, a finality you just don’t get in baseball.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
How can the Marlins go into play the Nats
and get swept, then go right to Philly and sweep the Phils?
Just win the next game...!
Once the Sox claimed Rios, the Cubs couldn't.
The claiming rights go by league first. So he had to clear all the AL teams first.
reply fail?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 12, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
And how about the freaking Marlins
goodness, no more excuses Cubs, start winning games. Damn Marlins, makes we want to start becoming a Browns fan, oh yeah I am.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Or a GM
How many times do we as fans have to witness the rebuilding of a struggling franchise, only to become a contender a few years later? You’d think the Cubs would figure it out one of these days.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Relievers
Cub bullpen spoiled a good Rich Harden outing. Here’s hoping Samardjiza can do as well as Harden. For next year, the Cubs should build around Grabow, Marshall and Guzman. They could still earn some saving grace before this is over, but for now IMO Marmol, Gregg and Heilman aren’t worth bringing back.
Never liked losing in extra innings to wear-out more just to lose, though I do consider those games games that can go either way. Much less disturbing than the last two in Colorado where the team scored 5 runs on multiple hits and just crapped at other aspects of the game like they didn’t feel like playing once they fell behind.
The hitters didn't help Harden much either
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
A.J. Happ
That kid pitching for the Phillies is pretty impressive. With the exception of one tough outing against the Cardinals he has been nails his last 6 outings.
Lou, Mármol and the hitters didn't help.
The rest of the relievers pitched well. Even Gregg, who only made a mistake (albeit one he makes too much), pitched well, just like Harden did earlier. if the team had produced at least one more run, Francisco’s HR wouldn’t have mattered (or happened).
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 12, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with Al. This loss was on Piniella.
He says he reviews every game with his coaches after the game. I hope he sees he blew it.
he might review the game, but I get the feeling he looks for someone else to blame
he’s made the same mistakes over, and over, and over this season
My comments on last night.
1) I agree with Al. This one’s on Lou. Even my wife, no Cubs fan or baseball analyst, asked me why there was no one warming up while Mármol was throwing the game away. It just bolsters my long-standing argument that Lou is really Dusty in disguise.
2) Speaking of managerial decisions, why was Gregg throwing for more than one inning in a tied ball game? Don’t complain, Lou, if Gregg isn’t available at a crucial moment in this series.
3) Hitting, not pitching (except Mármol) was the problem last night. The power hitters are either injured (Ramírez), not hitting for power (Bradley) or not hitting at all (Soriano). Without power (slugging) the hits won’t produce many runs. That one’s on Hendry. He didn’t add a bat to this team; instead took several away in the winter. Trusting that Ramírez would be back to hit consistently was foolish and only a pipe dream. Incidentaly, why isn’t Ramírez on the DL? It’s clear he’ll lose at least 10 days. A 15-days DL stint would have been better for the team, allowing the tem to add a bat to the roster. It would have also allowed Ramírez to rest.
4) Brenly has my respect for calling Soriano what he has been: inconsistent and lackadaisical. BTW, BB is available to manage next year. An so are other talented, alert and enhusiastic persons, who are more into winning than into growling at press conferences. We need an alert manager, someone who plays to win instead of trying to avoid being embarrased. And we need a GM who can evaluate and recognize talent adequately and assemble a winning team, not a .500 club.
Mr. Ricketts: You have plenty of decisions to make. Good luck.
Did BB call out
Soriano again last night or are you referring to his previous comments? If it is the former, it makes one wonder…
It's time for a statement game...
I’m not going through all the blibbah blabbuh from up above, but I’m just going to say the Cubs need to win this game today and send a statement to everyone that they’re not going away quietly.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 12, 2009 12:17 PM CDT reply actions
Jeff Samardzija's starting
the only statement happeing tonight will be from the Phillies offense.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
We'll see
Stranger things have happened.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 12, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Problem is
I feel like we’ve been here before. We make what appears to be a statement game, or statement series, only to go back to our old ways….. getting shut out, stranded RISP, bullpen woes.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
winning one game is not making a statement.
In football it might be, in baseball, you need to go on a run
Imagine what our bullpen would look like
had Lou not run off Wuertz and Eyre (and those are just two from last year). Those are two guys whom Lou let go stale on the shelf while he oveworked Marmol.
Simple reasonable bullpen management would have saved us a lot.
Instead, we have a trainwreck in the back of the ‘pen and have had to give up talent to acquire replacements for the guys Lou doesn’t have the ability to work with.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Let me guess
You were advocating keeping those two guys last year, right? Right?
The amount of revisionist history that goes on here is breathtaking.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
revisionist history?? or uneducated spewing of crap??? which is worse
because you don’t know what you’re talking about
DGU was advocating keeping those guys and was advocating USING them when they were here
a quick search of his history confirms this
you’d think a guy who spends 99% of his comments ridiculing others for how they post, would actually maybe process some of the information other posters post….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
"uneducated spewing of crap"
pretty much sums up your M.O., Dartmouth. Nice work.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I'm almost certain DGU favored keeping Wuertz.
Not sure about Eyre, but I’d guess a search would confirm that, too.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Boo
DartmouthCubsFan is one of the more restrained and intelligent posters at BCB.
Meanwhile, I have believed a good bit of your reputation, NBF, has been undeserved, so I’m disappointed to see you taking this tack right now.
But, it’s been a tough few days for Cub fans all around, so I’ll just chalk it up to that.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
If you've favored that in the past, DGU,
I apologize. You get points for consistency.
But I’m sure you know as well as I do that the “Why didn’t we keep Wuertz/Eyre?” question could be the new version of the “Why didn’t we keep Marquis?” meme.
Dartmouth’s constant harping on the Marmol overuse meme downgrades his legitimacy, IMHO.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
The difference between Wuertz/Eyre and Marquis
is that we had an able and cheaper replacement for Marquis on roster. It wasn’t likely that Marquis was going to be better than Marshall. Marquis has been better than Marshall, but, on the other hand, he hasn’t been better than Wells.
We dumped Wuertz and Eyre just because Lou didn’t like them, and doing so left holes in our ’pen.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Wuertz and Eyre
were also often as ineffective as anybody the Cubs have used this season. I can’t forget Wuertz’s 55-foot sliders, nor Eyre’s inability to get outs.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Eyre
is John Grabow part two
they’re practically the same pitcher
Wuertz has been effective throughout his career. Yes he has times where he loses the plate, but more often than not he’s gotten hitters out no matter where he’s been and been pretty much the perfect 7th inning guy (3rd or 4th best arm in the pen). He continues to do this in Oakland
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Wuertz
is having perhaps the best season of his career right now.
Look at Eyre’s Cubs stats from last year (and seeing his performance with my own eyes) and I don’t blame Lou for not wanting him.
None of this absolves Howry, of course.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Early with the Cubs, Eyre was quite good.
Hold the record for 33 straight appearances with allowing a run with the Cubs.
He might have also suffered from overuse. 74, 83, 86 appearances the three years before he came to the Cubs, and another 74 his first year with the team ( average of about 60 innings those years). He had an era of 3.38 that year, he did tail off badly and Lou gave up on him.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
career year?
ERA +
2004 – 101
2005 – 116
2006 – 176
2007 – 134
2008 – 123
2009 – 124
his peripherals have ticked up yes i’ll give you that, but the results in terms of runs allowed haven’t been much different
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 12, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
The baseball reference number are quite different
2005 – 162
2006 – 137
2007 – 113
2008 – 105
2009 – 240
Also, note the Cubs portion on 2008 was a 63 and Phils portion was 233. I’d bet Lou would take those numbers for a loogy. Granted he had atrocious number for that portion of 2008, but I also remember having that Lou has given up on him feeling. He clearly had something left.
The 33 appearances w/o allowing a run straddled end of 2007 and through June 15, 2008, also his two worst years or era+. His era with the Phils is 1.88 (08) and 1.80 (09).
Traded for Brian Schlitter, now at Tenn. 0-6 with 4.86 era.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Dartmouth's numbers are for Wuertz
not Eyre
Well, then that makes a little more sense.
The post he replied to ref. Eyre, not Wuertz.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
That post referenced both
and said Wuertz was having the career year.
You are right. My bad.
I’m going to go stand in the corner for 10 mins for improper postings.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
But I totally won that argument I was having
with myself…
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 12, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I was FURIOUS about letting Eyre go and not happy about dumping Wuertz
I went ballistic when they released Eyre after Lou had condemned him to the dog house. I rag on it still. I would love for Eyre to have taken a picture of his finger in a certain insulting position WITH his WS ring on it and send it to Lou. I do believe I posted about Eyre being dumped several HUNDRED times I was so pissed.
Wuertz I just thought was good enough to keep an under used.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
True - He had Hendry dump Eyre over
Howry and then kept using Howry. All while Eyre surfaced in Philly and had success.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
None of that made any sense at all.
And if they had kept Eyre, they wouldn’t have needed Grabow.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm still confused by it all.
They had similar contracts and kept the pitcher performing the worst of the two.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Hendry is no Kenny Williams.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, the master genuis.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
That one was TOTALLY on Lou
I mean what is a GM to do when a manager says I hate this player and I am never going to use him I prefer this crappy player instead . The off season stuff I think of as 50/50 in terms of Hendry getting what Lou wanted but dumping Eyre
was Lou.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou screwed up with Eyre, Weurtz and Howry. I agree.
However, I think it’s like Soriano – have to take the good with the bad.
I think it was Piniella that told Hendry to get Izturis and Barrett off his team. That team was practically overhauled during the 2007 season; no way do they win the division with the roster that they went in with.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou is no Ozzie.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank goodness!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
At least he admits to it ..... not that he really had to
During his post-game interview session, Bradley referred to himself as the “main culprit” during the Cubs lackluster series in Colorado, and also admitted he was has been part of the team’s inconsistent offense this year.
“I had a lousy first four months,” he said. “But hopefully the last two months I can play the way I’m capable of.”
“Coming home from Colorado, it was the first time all year I was glad to be coming back to Chicago,” he said Tuesday.
Last part was good to hear …..
COOL BEANS!
The reception he got in the 11th was good to hear, too.
It would be good if the crowd got off his back. He’s got his faults, but he’s been booed a lot more than warranted.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's fair to say
that he is showing what he’s capable of, finally.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
He's just shy I guess.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe some
nice big booming home runs. A walkoff would have made him a god last night.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Um....no, it wouldn't have.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
A minor deity, perhaps?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
if he had
hit a homerun to walk off win the game? There would be headlines with his name in them. It might not have lasted very long, but for the moment, it would have elevated him greatly.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
it would have been nice...
but Milton isn’t going to be “a God” in chicago unless he can keep his shit together for an extended period of time and be productive. One walkoff HR doesn’t make up for an entire half season of minor league level hitting.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
and we WON the Series.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
so its settled
he’ll hit a walkoff in game 5 of the WS to win the cubs the series.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
he was so so close to the walkoff
It's shocking what you can miss sometimes. The amazing color changing card trick.
by shake n bake on Aug 12, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not gonna lie to you guys.
I cursed.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I wanted to cry.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 12, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Same here.
And I really did curse. Scared my cat, too.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
that's why he did the pushups afterwards between innings.
he needs to get stronger to hit those homers.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
How does this thread have 666 comments and nobody has called Al on this from the intro?
I’ve got more, but there’s too much to squeeze in here above the fold.
TWHS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 4:16 PM CDT reply actions
Sorry Dad.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I get the blaming of Lou
But the offense continues to bother me more than the pitching.
10 hits. 7 walks. 3 runs.
That’s bullshit.
Guess who just pitched two scoreless innings in extras ?
Our old friend Chad Gauden. Got the win for the Yankees in 11. Baseball is a funny game.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
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