Eric HANNA SIGHTING???
Ok cub fan who threw the beer on Victorino. If you are EH, then you have become more infamous than Bartman. I was quite embarrassed to watch that happen. But wouldn't it be funny if that was Bartman attending his first cubs game since that his last nationally televised appearance in the left field line seats. Some would say this was redemption. I say disgrace for any other fan but Bartman, this is beating an old drum to death, but I remember one of my favorite cubs moments was when Davey lopes hit a home run and a guy in the bleachers loss his hot dog over the fence. I thought what a waste of a good dog, well same applies for this idiot. You paid a good price for that beer and not you can sit next to that idiot who pulled Chad Krueter's skull cap. I try and say that the dodger bleacher creatures(raider fans who are still bent the team left LA) are the worse, but now I have some "Splainnin to do". Thanks moron, unless you are Bartman, then maybe you should switch to a light beer so you can fit into that hoodie again.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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lenny dykstra got beered
this is a proud tradition against the phillies. nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about, especially this game. it’s the phillies after all. they play in philadelphia. wrigley bleachers are like sunday school compared to that town
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
This season has long been over. krummy12 (6/30/09)
You couldn't be more wrong, it's an absolute embarrassment.
Cubs fans that claim they are the best in baseball ought to realize they are rapidly becoming known as the Douchiest in baseball. I imagine Victorino would never be interested in coming to the Cubs as a free agent. The drunken stupidity that takes place in the bleachers on a regular basis needs to come to a stop. Every person in that row should have been escorted out. This type of matter needs to be dealt with more severely if they want it to stop.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
So if I'm sitting near where someone does something stupid...
I should be thrown out? I do believe your idea is a little overboard, don’t you?
How about anytime someone swears or jeers at a player, the entire section gets thrown out or when someone throws a homerun ball back on the field, the entire crowd gets ejected and the visiting teams get an automatic win? That would stop people!
The sun will shine in '69
yes
thats a great idea, ill pass that on to wrigley security
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
That's absolutely what I think should happen, even if I were the one sitting next to that idiot.
It’s called peer pressure. That imbecile didn’t care if he got thrown out of a blow out loss, had he known everyone around him would be thrown out with him it may have changed his actions. This type of thing has to be stopped and it may be extreme but this organization needs to send a message that this type of nonsense won’t be tolerated. They made it a felony to run out onto the field and this type of thing is just as bad if not worse. The cup and beer hit the player right in the face, that is assault.
I suppose you think this type of thing is no big deal. What would you suggest? Simply throwing out the offender hasn’t curtailed the douche-baggery of the ass-clowns in the bleachers. How would you feel if someone threw a full beer ten feet down directly into your face?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
throw out the whole row...what u smokin?
obviously your not a lawyer,… thats a civil lawsuit waiting to happen…. your always going to have stupid people do stupid things.. I didnt like it, but it happens… what you have to do is make sure you throw out the right guy…. replay shows wrong guy.. and the deadspin link below clearly shows they took out the wrong guy…
Are you a lawyer because it's not a civil lawsuit? Read the back of the ticket. They can't throw out whomever they want.
I was aware at the time that the wrong guy was booted which is exactly why they should throw out everyone in the vicinity. This is a continual pattern of drunken stupidity. It happens out there on a daily basis and this incident just happened to get caught on national television. Stay Classy Cubs Fans! It’s no wonder this kind of asinine behavior goes on when Cubs fans don’t even want to see it curtailed and deterred.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I actually meant to say they CAN throw out whomever they would like.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
so
if there is a 5 year old sitting in that row, they should throw them out too…ahh ok, because the 5 year old definitely was egging on the dude to throw the beer on the field…
by HardForharden on Aug 13, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, that does sound like something a five-year-old would do.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Corpal Punishment does not work
The military doesn’t use it anymore. Do you know why no one uses it anymore? Because it is ineffective and does not target the person or the behavior.
If the threat of be thrown of a game that you spent money doesn’t curtail your actions what is the threat of having someone you don’t know thrown out for your actions going to do?
The worst case would be that “bleacher bums” become a vigilante group and they start to police the bleachers. “I don’t like your shirt, throw him out”, “You hat is inapporiate, throw him out”, “That guy used a swear word, throw him out”. Or even a worse because the threat of getting thrown out of a game, what happens when these vigilantes start to become physical and fight with these drunk people?
Corpal Punishment does not work.
The sun will shine in '69
Do you mean Corporal Punishment?
Corporal Punishment means to physically beat someone. I’m not suggesting the Cubs beat people so I’m not really sure what you are talking about. Part of the reason that it makes sense to throw out people around the offender is that it would mean that the offender would in fact be thrown out. Last night, security didn’t even throw out the right guy but I suppose you figure they can’t do any better. Got it, you want us to just accept the stupidity and move on.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
You are correct Sir, I meant to say Mass Punishment
To punish a enitire section for the action of one person is just plain stupid. Mass punishment leads to what? You throw out a section because an idiot throws a beer on the player. Now you have a group of people that are upset for being punished for being near a person. What do you believe their actions will be toward the person that caused this? A fight? A someone getting injuried? A someone getting shot? There are causative effects for every action that you have on a group.
The sun will shine in '69
Really?
If Victorino were offered a free agent contract for Sorianoesque figures, perhaps to join a club that has a chance to win everything (always questionable of course), he would say, no thanks cause a fan dumped a beer on me once?
Hmmm, I am guessing he would choose to get over it.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 13, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Torrii Hunter
There have already been other free agent outfielders that have said wouldn’t ever consider playing for the Cubs. If Victorino were a free agent I doubt the Cubs would be the only team offering him a contract but that’s an interesting theory.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yuppers
Hunter happened to be one of the bigger names, but is one of a long list
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
rec'd
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
After reading the title of this post I was excited
Then I read some of the post, and was disappointed. Come on, really? Geez.
Me too, it was upsetting.
Could this day get worse?
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 12, 2009 10:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You were excited over the possibility of an ERIC HANNA sighting ?
Wow you must really be in a bad way.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 12, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
I tried to have some fun with it
Hector Villanueva ate himself out of the big leagues, He was a Big Big leaguer
by Adam Uhlhorn on Aug 12, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea
what you just said in your post…
I wish the idiot bleacher fan that did this would get outed and face the same kind of scorn Bartman did.
I know it won’t happen but this type of nonsense needs to be put to a stop. That moron ought to be charged with felony assault for striking a player. All Cubs fans outgh to start speaking out about this type of asinine behavior because it makes all Cubs fans look stupid.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:18 PM CDT reply actions
I wish the idiot bleacher fan that did this would get outed and face the same kind of scorn Bartman did.
theres a diff between catching a foul ball leading to a meltdown and throwing beer at someone
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, Bartman did nothing wrong and this douchebag intentionally assaulted someone with his beverage.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
im saying that the fan shouldnt have death threats mailed to him or having the governor ask for asylum for throwing beer at victorino
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you saying that it was ok for those things to happen to Bartman? That's the implication you're giving me.
He actually deserves much worse treatment than Bartman got as he intentionally assaulted someone. He didn’t just throw the beer at him he hit him with it. What would you suggest they do to someone that intentionally assaulted you?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you saying that it was ok for those things to happen to Bartman? That’s the implication you’re giving me.
no
He actually deserves much worse treatment than Bartman got as he intentionally assaulted someone.…..
He didn’t just throw the beer at him he hit him with it.oh, i thought he picked up the beer and dumped it over himself
What would you suggest they do to someone that intentionally assaulted you?arresting them seems ok, not doing worse things than what happened to bartman
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't you want to see this nonsense prevented? It's not just a matter of punishment.
arresting them seems ok,
Don’t be too harsh here.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
you did say he assaulted victorino 
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 12, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously, what do the Cubs need to do in order to stop this kind of thing from occurring?
You seem to have no problem ripping my ideas, can you come up with one of your own? Do you not see this type of behavior as a problem? Have you not noticed a pattern of drunken over-the-top obnoxious behavior being tolerated in Wrigley Field? This is just the most recent incident in what has become a pattern. Throwing objects at players on the field is ridiculous. Can people come and throw beers at you while you do your job?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
if someone came and threw a beer at me while i did my job
i would probably get in a fight and want to file a report against the person to get some discipline imposed in some way.
but i would not advocate banning beer from the entire building or floor of the building.
you are way overboard here.
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
This season has long been over. krummy12 (6/30/09)
Anyone know who this douchebag is? Deadspin has the screen cap.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 10:22 PM CDT reply actions
Oh nice, I didnt know that he was not the guy who did it.
Hector Villanueva ate himself out of the big leagues, He was a Big Big leaguer
by Adam Uhlhorn on Aug 12, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, security threw out the wrong guy which is why I've advocated throwing out the entire row.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I have been part of similar situations
To punish all for the action of one is one of the most annoying things ever. I cant agree with you on this, but I do agree something needs to be done.
Hector Villanueva ate himself out of the big leagues, He was a Big Big leaguer
by Adam Uhlhorn on Aug 12, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
You would rather see the perp walk? Because he did.
If you agree something should be done then what? The measure has to be severe enough in order to serve as a deterrent. It may seem extreme to some but peer pressure works.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Lets think about this, if anyone tried to stop him it would have been to late.
so with your idea, when we attend a game we have to watch the game, look out for the vendor that has what we want and look at everyone in our row that could be a row evictor. Its just not fair to those who have paid good money for a ticket. This is not a military expedition that can be ruined because of one individual, its entertainment that can be taken away from you because you sat in the wrong row. No Way, not gonna happen, the poor guy was guilty of mocking and if he was in his right mind he would have just pointed the guy out. One point of the finger can solve the problem, not a ejection of the row.
Hector Villanueva ate himself out of the big leagues, He was a Big Big leaguer
by Adam Uhlhorn on Aug 12, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
No. You are missing the point. The person would be deterred from the behavior because they would know others would suffer from their actions.
The other problem is that the guy that threw the beer is the one that pointed out the other guy to security. Your finger pointing idea doesn’t work, it failed tonight. Who is security to believe if they both point the finger at one another? That’s why they should all be tossed. Security would have been doing them a favor by throwing them out of this disaster of a game.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 12, 2009 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem with your idea is it rests on douchebags caring about other people
The people that do crap like this typically couldn’t care less what happens to the people around them. The only positive thing that could come from kicking out a whole row is the beating the rest of the row could put on the guy once they’re outside.
Dude these arguments are ridiculous...
best we can all do, because we all AGREE with you, is continue to not do this stuff ourselves. You, and the Cubs, have no control over who gets too drunk and acts like an ass. Why you think there is some magic solution that no one has thought of is beyond me.
Why not ban all fans from Wrigley? No chance of this stuff happening. How bout shutting down the bleachers? Why not only allow senir citizens in for games? There is NO solution to this, just know what not to do in your own life.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 13, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you telling me that a team can't take measures to reduce this type of nonsense?
You would be wrong. The Cubs actually do have some control over who gets drunk and it’s security’s job to identify people who are intoxicated and over-served. What I have suggested is not far-fetched like the nonsense you have chosen to use for purpose of exaggeration.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I could careless what happens to someone 5 seats down from...
I don’t know them and I don’t believe he cares about me either.
The sun will shine in '69
dood
so if a guy two seats down from me starts a fight and I’m not involved, I should get thrown out?
No. I’d rather see criminals go free then innocent people be punished.
Here’s a novel idea — punish the people who are responsible for the crime, not the people who happen to be standing near them.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 13, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
As I pointed out to LaddieRenfro below, I never suggested throwing out anyone around people that fight.
It’s interesting how people want to jump to over-generalizations that I didn’t make in order to rebut my suggestion. Whoever is fighting can be easily identified and ejected, not the problem here.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
but you
suggest that if someone throws a beer, the whole row should get thrown out?
How is that substantively different?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 13, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
For one security couldn't identify the culprit like they could in a fight.
In an instance like last night when they couldn’t identify who did it, they should have taken out the people in that area and held them aside until they could review video.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
punishing the innocent
to find the guilty is no way to run a stadium.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Why are you arguing against something I never suggested?
If 2 people are fighting it’s easy to identify who is involved and obvious as to who should be ejected. That is not the case here. In the case last night security was unable to identify the responsible party which is exactly why they should have cleared the area. And, as far as the people standing near him, they were actually cheering the idiot that tossed the beer. You are worried one of them might get thrown out? That would be so unfortunate. I also heard a guy that was sitting in the area say that he tried to tell security that they had the wrong guy and he was shouted down by drunken idiots around him.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
SO I am sitting three seat away with my wife and kid
at her first Cubs game, are you saying that she needs to be throw out because of the idiot that threw the beer? What about the Elderly couple that is sitting two seats away in the other direction? Your blanket statement about people sitting near the idiot is total overblown.
You believe that the idiot that threw the beer makes all Cubs fans look bad, which I disagree with. It makes that idiot look bad. I suggest that you get off your high horse where all people should be only act honorably and gracious and come down to reality where some people do stupid stuff.
The sun will shine in '69
you know what?
I paid my $50. If you try to throw me out for no reason I WILL RESIST YOU.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 13, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
From what I've seen from bleacher security, you won't have to try too hard
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
what if they got the wrong row?
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
This season has long been over. krummy12 (6/30/09)
I think
it’s Dave Navarro’s son.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fukudometer on Aug 12, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
♪♫ Jane says...I'll pour beer on Victorino...Samardzija pitches like a rag doll...♪♫
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I think it was the guy in the Hurricanes shirt...
he is suspect if you ask me!
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 13, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I...I...I thought we established it's Eric Hanna.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
well
that explains why I kept thinking that the guy who got thrown out accidentally knocked over his beer, because I couldn’t see him throw it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 13, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Is this a recent a phenomenon?
These sort of incidents seemed to occur far more frequently back in the late 80s and early 90s. My memory may not be quite accurate, but Darryl Strawberry seemed to get beer thrown at him every time that neared the warning track. On top of that, there were a number of similar incidents that involved mass participation. For example, after Randy Myers blew a save on Randy Myers Poster Day, all the posters distributed in the bleachers wound up on the field. Another instance was when Mark Grace was erroneously called out at 2nd base and, in response, a huge amount of trash was thrown onto the field, causing a lengthy delay.
Either Al or another fan that often sits in the bleachers can probably cite the points when the Cubs increased security there – it would make for an interesting timeline. While I haven’t sat in the bleachers since about 1995, the security presence there has definitely increased. I also think, though I can’t base it on personal experience, that the let’s-get-trashed-and-ignore-the-game M.O. has also become more pervasive but the instances in which fans interfere with play have become far more infrequent over the years…
…but that’s a subjective assessment. I think that the reputation for drunken loutish behavior at Wrigley Field has grown so much in the last 10-15 years that, when a very visible incident does occur, it is almost immediately held out as an example of the bad behavior exhibited by all Cub fans (e.g., Marty Brennaman’s rant last year). And that’s so patently unfair. Should I, either as a Cubs fan or someone that attended tonight’s game, be ashamed because one jerk threw his drink at Victorino?
Three more points:
1. As I did go to the game tonight, I’d like to hand out my personal “fan of the game” award to the couple sitting next to me and friends. They arrived in the top of the 4th – he was wearing a Phillies hat and a t-shirt for his yacht club (I’m not kidding) and she was in a black cocktail dress. We were sitting in the upper deck, way down the RF line, so their attire seemed, um, a bit out-of-place. While the Phillies scored all those runs, he was texting away on his fancy phone, though he looked up and said “aw hell yeah” when Rollins homered. They then decided to leave in the bottom of that inning.
2. If an incident occurs, the Cubs security staff should be able to determine the person at fault. There’s simply no need to pracitice guilt-by-association tactics (which, both legally and logically, are unfair despite their deterrent value) when a staffer watching the game can simply rewind the video and identify the perpetrator. If deadspin can get a screen-capture up so quickly and, seemingly, everyone watching the game realizes the mistake, the security staff has no excuse in this instance.
3. And, finally (I just keep typing, I can’t stop), a classic…

"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
So, you admit they didn't get the right guy and there is no excuse but you see no need for better preventative measures?
I speak only for myself and as a Cubs fan I find this type of drunken obnoxious behavior very embarrassing. It’s an embarrassment to everyone that was sitting in that stadium tonight and an even bigger embarrassment that the perpetrator wasn’t identified. There is an obvious need for better security measures at the games. There may have been many previous incidents when objects were thrown on the field but a player being pelted with objects just can’t continue to occur. Drunken loutish behavior isn’t new but it needs to be identified and ejected.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow, quick reply, thanks.
Over the course of my rambling comment, I tried to illustrate that these incidents have become fewer and further between but those that still occur are magnified out of proportion. While this crap has actually decreased, the scrutiny paid to them has grown exponentially. I think that, before we rail about fan behavior, we should consider the standards by which we judge such actions, especially when considering solutions.
The technology available to ballpark security staffs has, also, become much more complex and precise than it was 10-15 years ago. If they didn’t get the right guy tonight, considering how well the incident was documented, then the ballpark security committed the worse offense. The fan that was thrown out appears to have been guilty of laughing about the beer shower. I don’t think that’s grounds for dismissal, regardless of the fine-print-text on the back of our tickets. He suffered a personal and immediate form of embarrassment that far outweighs our collective but detached chagrin. Tonight, ballpark security got it wrong (apparently – I was 300 feet away, without a TV screen to look at) and, considering how easy it should be to get it right, they need to review just how they determine which fan to eject.
A policy of ejecting an entire row would eventually backfire, in a public and caustic way. If you throw out an entire row, then you’ll eject and alienate any number of good people, folks that are completely removed from the incident. Here’s an example – I was at both Sox/Cubs games played at Wrigley earlier this season. After the Cubs came back during the second game, a very obnoxious Sox fan and a very obnoxious Cub fan in my section got into a fist fight. Both men seemed to be extremely inebriated. Sitting next to them was a grandmotherish sort of women, white-haired and munching homemade candy from a ziploc bag. There are no TV cameras on the crowd, ever, in that part of the ballpark. Unlike the bleachers, security is relatively scarce. If policy compelled the staff to eject every fan in the immediate vicinity, what would happen when those huge men force that grandmother to leave the park? … two things … 1) those of us a bit further away, that did see the fight but were not involved, would be extremely angry and 2) the Cubs event management would get absolutely blasted on at least local, if not national, media provided that a nearby fan captured the scene on their phone’s camera (which is likely). Such a scenario is almost grotesque, at least to me, but it would often if Wrigley security employed a guilt-by-proximity scheme were employed.
So, even if such misbehavior is overblown, it’s still a problem. What are the solutions?
1. Recognize this stuff for what it is – individuals acting very badly. The instances of mass participation (everybody throws onto garbage onto the field) have, by and large, become a thing of the past. And good riddance, as they risk the team forfeiting a game. So, now, the focus has to be on individual fan behavior.
2. Take preventative action when possible. Ballpark security can’t reasonably be expected to prevent fistfights in the far reaches of the grandstand but they can be expected to assign blame immediately and, more importantly, correctly if someone interferes with either a player or a live ball. The whole Bartman fiasco taught us that – technology ensures that there’s a quick public backlash in such cases and the staff should be equally quick, in not faster, in using those resources.
3. Avoid overly drastic measures when employing preventative action. I’ve tried to show that beer showers, fights, etc., are neither new nor uniquely disturbing patterns of behavior. Moreover, the Wrigley Field staff have taken a number of preventative steps that have, in turn, helped to curtail such behavior, even if the pervasive drinking culture has become more prevalent that in past years. At the same time, we Cub fans have become more sensitive to specific incidents, the Bartman thing playing a large role in that. Rather than letting our own chagrin run amuck, we should remember just how embarrassing it would be if little old ladies from Iowa were escorted out in handcuffs solely because they sat near to a drunken idiot….
4. Punish the one person responsible harshly, thereby setting a precedent. When a fan interferes with play, make sure that the guilty individual, but only that one person, is removed from the ballpark and banned for life. Moreover, emphasive the severity of the ban – this guy, who probably considers himself a “super die-hard Cub fan” or something, will never again be able to attend a game at Wrigley Field. On top of that, why not charge him with assault? Sure, pouring a beer on someone isn’t the same thing as punching them but if you want to illustrate the consequences of bad behavior, take every step necessary to ensure that the individual is subject to the full legal repercussions. Technically speaking, that one guy assaulted Shane Victorino, so let him have it. But just him, not the guys sitting on either side of him..
"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
by LaddieRenfroe on Aug 13, 2009 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Where did I suggest that everyone around two specific individuals fighting should be ejected?
This is not a concept that comes without discretion. Obviously if two people are locked in battle it’s not hard to identify who is at fault. In the case last night they couldn’t identify who was specifically responsible thus they should have cleared the area. Why are you arguing against old women being handcuffed when no one ever suggested it? Hyperbole, much?
You claim that these incidents are fewer now but when was the last time you sat in the bleachers? There is drunken, obnoxious and verbally abusive environment, on a regular basis. Just because things aren’t being thrown onto the field every game it doesn’t mean that there isn’t plenty of inappropriate behavior. There needs to be a greater security presence and the nonsense that goes over-looked should be curtailed.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
dude
everyone knows that this shouldn’t happen, but preventing it from happening completely is just plain absurd…might be a drastic comparison, but everyone knows killing is wrong but people still do it. There are those idiots in the world that do stupid things that most everyone has no control of, I don’t think we should be punished because of one stupid fan, that is like saying that everyone who watches Jackass should go to jail because they laughed at something that had negative effects on another person.
by HardForharden on Aug 13, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
You’re idea is to eject everyone in the immediate vicinity when an incident occurs.
Yeah, security threw out the wrong guy which is why I’ve advocated throwing out the entire row.
It’s called peer pressure. That imbecile didn’t care if he got thrown out of a blow out loss, had he known everyone around him would be thrown out with him it may have changed his actions.
My response is that, if a such a policy was enforced, you’d wind up throwing out fans that were uninvolved in the original incident. Eventually, that would lead to something that is as embarrassing as the first action – a little kid or a grandma escorted out simply because of their proximity to the person responsible. You’re right in that I took your argument a bit too far, applying it to fistfights whereas you may have been talking about interference with the field of play (I hate fistfights in the stands more than beer showers, so perhaps it’s just my pet peeve). Still, I think it’s an awful idea to punish a group for the actions of an individual – it’s bad enough that we, as Cub fans, feel some collective embarrassment for this crap. However, punishing all the fans in the immediate vicinity of a perpetrator would backfire – while it might prevent an incident or two, but continually punishing persons uninvolved would more embarrassing than the initial crime.
In my first post, I speculated that while drunken obnoxious behavior in the bleachers is perhaps, although I have to base that on second-hand info because I never sit in the bleachers. However, I also speculated (there’s no log of this stuff) that fan interference with the field has decreased. Looking for evidence this morning – I may have been wrong…from 2006 and last season. I guess that I just remember the stuff from years ago, when I was younger, much more vividly.
But we’re in agreement that regardless of the method employed that security in the bleachers needs to improve, even if new steps have been taken in recent years. I guess we’ll just have to disagree about the best methods to do so.
"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
by LaddieRenfroe on Aug 13, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Not the old, protect the kids and the grandmas theory.
How many kids or grandmas were standing in the vicinity of the incident last nite? Why didn’t they escort out the people in the area and detain them until they could review the video and determine the culprit? Seems pretty simple to me.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
The "wrong guy" was being obnoxious too
He probably didn’t deserve to get tossed, granted, but he made himself look like he was the one responsible. At the time security came through the row, he’s standing there, drunkenly, shirt open, arms up, yelling at Victorino as if to say “How do you like that?”. I would’ve thought he was the guy too if I’d been in security.
It was a shame he got tossed for something he didn’t do, but let’s not lionize the kid. Most of us in that situation wouldn’t have gotten tossed because we wouldn’t have jumped right into the fray like that.
I had no problem with the wrong guy being tossed as long as the real offender had been tossed as well.
I don’t feel at all sorry for the Jared from Subway look a like. He was acting like an idiot too.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
all of you so worried about the reputation of Cubs fans
i think you should be more concerned with how much milton bradley gets booed at his home field than with a beer being thrown on a player once every couple years
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
This season has long been over. krummy12 (6/30/09)
Obnoxious idiocy by fans isn't limited to beer tossing.
Fans booing Bradley and other Cubs is also an example of how the atmosphere at Wrigley can be extremely unpleasant. I was at the Indians game where Bradley was really attacked and if I had brought kids with me I would have left. I can also say I would never take a kid with me if I were sitting in the bleachers. Unfortunately it’s not a place where I would feel comfortable with kids due to the drunken and obnoxious behavior that goes on.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
ok
then don’t go. I took my kid to a game in the bleachers on Father’s day, and it was perfectly fine for him and several other kids sitting in the area as well. And had someone in my row thrown a beer and gotten the entire row thrown out, that would have destroyed a very fine day for me and my son and wife. Why would you advocate doing something like that to innocent people?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 13, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
If you want to take your son to the bleachers be my guest, I've just seen too many obnoxious drunks out there playing the fool.
I’ve listened to verbally abusive morons who were obviously drunk attack other fans. I’ve watched security guards that are completely oblivious to what’s going on around them, not to mention there aren’t enough of them. On any given day you could take a child out there and have no problem whatsoever but there is a much greater likelihood of an incident occurring out there because of the behavior that is allowed to take place. I’m not telling you what to do with your son, I’m just saying I don’t feel comfortable taking kids out there due to what I’ve personally witnessed many, many, many times.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Seems to me...
…that the closer to the field you get, the worse the behavior in the bleachers. Or am I overgeneralizing? I’ve sat/stood further back in the bleachers on several occasions (including in Al’s section once) and never felt threatened or overly annoyed. That’s not to say there wasn’t some bizarre behavior going on, but it didn’t seem all that bad. I think I’d recommend anyone bringing a child into the bleachers to just stick toward the back.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I've observed the same thing. I think it's much worse in the front rows.
Unfortunately sometimes when you get there you can’t always sit in the back rows. You might have to squeeze in where there is room and it might be near idiots. I’m not saying all bleacher fans have a problem just that there is a higher concentration in that area of the ballpark.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 13, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
fine.
again — then don’t go. But don’t suggest draconian and patently unfair “punishment” suggestions either.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 13, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
what about waterboarding the entire row
to get the proper person outed
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Or take the entire row down onto the concourse...
…make ’em strip down and get into a big naked pig-pile. Fans could then pose in front of it for pictures…smile and give the camera a big thumbs-up.
Donald Rumsfeld’s a local guy and he’s out of work these days, maybe he’d want to head up the security staff at Wrigley.
"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
by LaddieRenfroe on Aug 13, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I would be fine with that
if all the people in the pile had just tried to kill the Security Guards with explosives or guns.
"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

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