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Cliff Lee And Phillies Thoroughly Dominate; Cubs Lose Fifth In Row

It seemed over before it even started.

No, I'm not talking about the 2009 season, although it is rapidly fading unless the Cubs can make a quick turnaround.

I'm talking about today's Cubs 6-1 loss to the Phillies. With a pitcher as good as Cliff Lee going, there is little margin for error on the part of his opponent. Ryan Dempster didn't pitch a bad game, but he made two mistakes -- one was a wind-aided homer by Ryan Howard into about the second row in left field, the other a solo shot by Pedro Feliz two batters later, and they might as well have called the game off right then, because Cubs hitters had no idea how to solve Lee.

That's not a knock on them, necessarily -- many teams have had the same trouble. The Cubs scored exactly as many runs -- one -- off Lee as the Giants and Rockies did in his two previous National League starts after he came over to the Phillies from Cleveland. The Cubs' best shot at Lee was in the second inning when they loaded the bases on a pair of walks and a single by Jake Fox. However, the bases-loaded batter was Dempster, who came into the game with a .089 career batting average and who was 3-for-40 this year (.075) starting today's action.

Naturally, he struck out.

The rest of the game played out fairly evenly, with the Phillies dinking out a couple more runs and the Cubs getting a consolation run in the fifth on a Jeff Baker double, followed by a Ryan Theriot single. If there has been any bright spot over the last week, it's been the play of Baker, who is 11-for-19 (.579) over the last five games with two doubles, a triple and a pair of walks and who is now hitting .333/.397/.526 in an admittedly small-sample-size 63 plate appearances as a Cub. With Mike Fontenot struggling, expect Baker to play second base regularly for a while, at least.

Star-divide

There's no doubt this team is far different with Aramis Ramirez not in the starting lineup. As I mentioned earlier, the Cubs are 25-17 with A-Ram starting, now 33-38 without, and watching him drive down Sheffield about 10:45 this morning in his red Maserati, I wondered when or whether we'd see him back in the lineup. There seems no word from anyone on when he'll return; we were all hoping for today. Maybe tomorrow. Lou Piniella seemed completely discouraged and defeated in his postgame news conference, offering little more than platitudes. It may be that Lou and the team could come to an amicable parting of the ways after this year, and new ownership, wanting to make a splash, might go after Tony LaRussa, whose Cardinals contract is up at the end of this year. This was total speculation on the part of my friend Dave this afternoon, but it's certainly food for thought, especially if this season doesn't wind up in a comeback.

I also wanted to say a few more words about last night's beer-tossing incident in the bleachers. Both the Cubs and Phillies CF Shane Victorino have filed a complaint against the fan who did it. The only problem:

... the Chicago Police Department is looking for the individual.

As you may have heard, security in the bleachers got the wrong guy, who, protesting was handcuffed and taken to the Town Hall police station down Addison before they checked TV replays and discovered that the protests were valid. At Chicago Sports in Haiku today, they posted a pretty good screen cap of the guy who apparently did it and said, in haiku:

Do you know this guy?
Then you should pick up the phone
And call the police!

I watched the video of the incident. It is my opinion that the man pictured at Chicago Sports in Haiku is the one who threw the beer. The cubs.com article linked above also says:

The Cubs do have security in the bleachers, and Kenney said he wasn't sure what other steps the team could take.

"What are you going to do?" Kenney said. "We serve beer and people sit in the bleachers. If you think about how many years we've gone with no issues of any kind, including situations where we had our fans in some way animated about our own players, where they weren't favorable towards them -- so this is an isolated instance. [We'll] handle it the right way, we think, with the police."

While Kenney is correct -- this is an isolated incident -- there are some measures they can and should take to keep the rowdiness down. I will say that security has been much more vigilant about underage drinking this year, but there's more they can do to calm the idiot behavior. So Crane, here are my suggestions for making the bleachers a better place to be, all of which I think are reasonable and none of which are too onerous on fans or the team:

  • To keep the drunkenness down, issue wristbands to everyone who wants to buy alcohol, with four tabs (or punch holes, whatever). After you buy four, you're done. Cut off alcohol sales two hours after game time, and keep up the good work on stopping the underage drinking.
  • Assign knowledgeable and well-trained security people to the bleachers and keep the same people in the same locations every game. This was done years ago and the regulars and season ticket holders would get to know them; they'd get to know the territory and could quickly figure out where trouble would start. With new security faces there seemingly every day, they have trouble with just enforcing the rules they think they know, much less look for trouble. And give them better training in how to enforce the rules that need to be enforced, not just nitpick (I heard today that one security guard yelled at a fan who simply had the tips of his fingers over the top of the wall. Ridiculous).
  • Assign security to both the top row AND bottom row of EVERY aisle. Right now there's only one security guard at the bottom of each aisle, and some in the middle of rows -- not nearly enough people to quell problems.
  • Get some uniformed Chicago police officers in the bleachers. Just a uniformed presence might keep some of the idiots from doing stupid things. This is done at Yankee Stadium (or, at least it was in the old one, I assume they do the same at the new place) and it really does help keep people behaving properly. In addition, have some plainclothes or off-duty Chicago police roam the bleachers throughout the game.

Will this cost more money? Sure it will. But wouldn't it be worth it to keep from having more black eyes on the franchise like this one?

Enough. At least the weather's been nice the last three days, for really the first time all summer. Too bad the baseball hasn't been as nice. Onward, and let's sweep the Pirates this weekend.

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LaRussa a Cub

Wow. My mind is boggling.

Total unfounded speculation by Dave. BUT…

LaRussa has a history of bringing players with him.

Mr. Pujols, your keys to the city are waiting.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 13, 2009 5:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Whitey Herzog

I heard the Cubs had some interest in him around 1980 after the White Rat got canned by Kansas City, but Whitey didn’t like the fact the Cubs played all their home games during the day back then. I wonder how good the Cubs could have been in the 1980’s with Herzog at the helm. Could Whitey Ball have worked at Wrigley Field?

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

sure

as long as Vince Coleman, Tommy Herr, and Willie ET McGee were occupying the top 3 spots in that batting order.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take Away 1984 and 1989

The Cubs were bad back then. I wonder if the Cubs would have been any better, if they had been more speed-oriented. Of course, the Cubs have traditionally built around power because of Wrigley’s reputation as a home run park.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 13, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Coleman and McGee

There was one game at Wrigley when Coleman and McGee stole 2 bases a piece on the same play when Ron Cey was arguing a call at third base.

The daily double of Dernier and Sandberg was the best 1-2 speed combo I can remember the Cubs having.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

it was

and it was short-lived when Dernier forgot how to hit.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Highly doubtful that we would have seen "Whiteyball" in Wrigley

I remember reading an interview with Herzog several years ago (I don’t recall where) where he said that he built the Cards for speed because they played half their games in Bush and if he had managed the Cubs, he would’ve built the team for power because of Wrigley.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whiteyball

He used that speed game to a certain extent in Kansas City, when he had Willie Wilson, Freddie Patek, and Amos Otis on the artificial turf there. I wonder how well Whitey could have done with a team that was power-oriented offensively. I suppose the Royals lineup with Brett, John Mayberry, Amos Otis, and Hal McRae in 1976-77 was the most powerful lineup Whitey ever had. They came within one win of the American League pennant both years.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 14, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I may hate TLR but I even thru I'd like to hate Pujols

I find it just impossible.

The other day a buddy of mine who is Red Sox fan (grew up in burb of boston and has been since he was a kid so not one of the bandwagoners) and were just discussing how much we’d both love each of our favorite teams to get him.

He’ll be 31 when he is a FA. If the Cubs don’t get him, I hope someone in the AL does.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Would the Yankees

throw half a billion dollars at him?

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 13, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

They do have Teixeira at 1B already, so you would think not

You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan

by dtc0405 on Aug 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

could use pujols as DH

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he may go for that...

You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan

by dtc0405 on Aug 13, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

considering

that pujols is a better defender, i really, really don’t see albert just conceding to only playing half as much baseball as he wants to

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 13, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

texiera plays a great first base too

"Cub fans don’t give up!" -Ron Santo, 8/12/2009

by Allie on Aug 13, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not that I know the inner-thinking of Pujols

But he plays a pretty good 1B, and I’d think he’d want to stay there.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

when youre handed the kind of money the yankees would give him

you dont care where you play

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's true.

I just automatically assume that they will.

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

When have the Cubs gone out and got the absolute best player available at the time?

They’ll wait…piddle around…and then sign a much lesser player and bid against themselves to do it.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

it could be argued

Sori was the best available player the year he signed.

But, yep you are absolutely correct. They’d f*ck it up, somehow.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

But SWL I can dream can’t I?

Having our luck, he’d end up with a career threatening injury.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

of course

I am dreaming with ya on that one.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

2006....

we could have gotten….

J.D. Drew
Tori Hunter
Carlos Lee

and not had to give them an 8 year contract

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

i would not want nancy drew

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm glad we don't have Drew or Lee

But Hunter definitely would have been nice.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

We couldn't have gotten Hunter in 2006

Unless we traded for him. He wasn’t available for free agency until winter of 2007. And he does have a much nicer contract than Soriano.

by Spotacus on Aug 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only reason they did that...

…was because they’d passed on Beltran prior to the 2005 season, and convinced themselves that Sosa and Alou would be better replaced with Hollandsworth and Burnitz.

So, with a gaping hole in CF, they throw Soriano the same annual salary the Mets gave Beltran, plus an extra year for good measure. Notwithstanding the fact that Soriano was 4 years older than Beltran had been, and couldn’t play CF.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 13, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

They should have a new owner in place by then, new owner, new attitude perhaps,

this would also be dependent on the Cubs not resigning Lee after next season.

You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan

by dtc0405 on Aug 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

More likely the Red Sox

as they have room for a 1B

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

2011

If he’s a FA, one would almost think he’d get AROD $$$ from someone

If I could pick anyone to be a Cub, I would have to say he’d have to be it. I can’t off the top of my head think of anyone else.

How great of a player must you be, if 2 years ahead of time people are talking about this. :)

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

answer

the best hitter in baseball—truly great.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Truthfully if TLR managing would help that

I feel dirtyt typing that

But I’d like to see the best player in baseball a Cub.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he'll make ARod's contract look like minimum wage

We’ll may be not that bad, but its going to be huge.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

damn you wolf

I wasn’t going to log on saw you comment and did……you optism has made me late for supper.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wolf?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

hahahah

oh wait. you’re serious

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 13, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

As a Cardinals' fan,

the idea of TLR going to the Cubs was fine with me. I was like: TLR? You can has. I don’t particularly care for him as a manager, for reasons which many Card fans can tell you.

However, the idea of TLR dragging along Pujols with him scares me. At first I scoffed, like What a stupid idea. That would not happen! But the slim chance it would, if TLR went to the Cubs, scares me.

Nightmares tonight. Yay. =)

The first thing that a pitcher has to understand is that Albert is better than you.-- Jim Palmer

by ilrosso on Aug 13, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

cubs won't be able to afford him

if he doesn’t re-sign, he’ll most likely go to the mets. which, as a mets fan, is about the only place i could handle him going. i think he re-signs, though

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Aug 13, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would be all over this.

If TLR comes packaged with Dave Duncan, I say GET IT DONE. That then might be a good opportunity to bring Ryne Sandberg up as bench coach, where he can learn the ropes.

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded." -Jim Frey

by lapetino on Aug 14, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK, before I head to an evening meeting

Silver linings from the New Optimistic Worf:

  • Cardinals didn’t play today, so we only fell behind a half-game
  • Everyone kept their fluids to themselves
  • Baker locked himself in at 2B
  • Lou should have learned definitively that Theriot-Dome-Bradley is not good. Go back to Dome-Bradley or Theriot-Bradley.
  • Michael Vick didn’t sign with the Bears OR the Packers
  • The Earth did not crash into the Sun

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 13, 2009 5:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe the earth will crash into the Sun soon....

I’m happy I turned it off early, that being said I came here for the recap and wasn’t going to comment due to my disgust.

But an optimistic wolf might be nearing sign of an apocalypse.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

This looks like a pretty optomistic wolf:

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

TWSS for bullet point #2

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not everybody who drinks more than 4 beers

turns into an idiot. For some of us that is our only vacation every year or two. I would be highly pissed if I got to Wrigley and they said you can have 4 beers.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Really?

Your having a good time at Wrigley is dependent on you drinking more than four beers?

That’s really sad.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd have a hard time drinking four beers at a Cubs game...

…(eyes get bigger as the realization of what he just said hits him)…

“What am I SAYING?”

(Kidding) ;)

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Aug 13, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm 6'3" and 230 and yes I like to drink beer

I watch baseball. Especially the way they have been playing lately.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

or after the game.

but if more than 4 beers means that much to you. I got a deal for you buy me a ticket and I’ll you have my share. So at least if you get kicked out…. I’ll enjoy a free game an extra spot on the bleachers. LOL

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Deal...But, I wouldn't do anything to kicked out.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will also need money to get me from Madison to Chicago.....

If you go for that deal……………………..

Those beers are WAY TOO IMPORTANT to you LOL

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

You will have to arrange your own transportation.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn

Would I atleast get food and score card?

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only the ticket in this economy. :)

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps another time.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe next year :)

Hell come up to Miller Park, trust you prolly can’t outdrink some of them. Plus it’s a beautiful park. Brewer/ Cub games are a lot of fun.

This is the first year in about 3 or 4 that I’m not going to one

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I have never been to Wisconsin.

I had a friend from Madison, WI in undergrad at Southern Miss.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haven't spoken to them in years.

I wouldn’t know how to track him down.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you...

I don’t get to go to many games a year but I enjoy drinking my beer at sporting events especially with friends. I don’t get belligerent and control myself, but it just makes the atmosphere funner, especially if the Cubs are getting blown out. It was an isolated incident. I understand doing something if this is something that happens time after time. I think some people are overreacting to this one isolated incident.

by aznsensation on Aug 13, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is nothing wrong with having

a good time if you don’t bother others.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

you most certainly need more than 4 beers

to watch them play right now.

I think a few Vodka-Tonics may help as well.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

All we drink at football games in the south is Bourbon.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Camp Randall here in Madison

believe it or not but I think it is the only place in Madison that doesn’t sell booze on Football Saturdays…..

Doesn’t matter many undergrads start @ 9am and are drunk by the time they get to their seats for 11 am kick off

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I prefer to smuggle a little into the games.

At the beginning of the season I just watch at home as it is still far to hot to watch a game at 11am outside. Even the night games are brutal.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

9am?

There is no way. I’m an Iowa fan, and we usually start around 7 or earlier. I cannot accept that a fellow Big 10 school would devalue those 2 (at least) extra hours of drinking

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 13, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heck, at UI they don't even tailgate.

An absolute disgrace.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell we always

do when we go to football games there. Not sure where he was coming from saying that.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 14, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I always wanted to do Breakfast Club

Halloween costumes in Harry’s at 7am then to Slayter Hill at 10 to walk behind the band and the Special to the stadium.

Always looked fun. Boiler Up, baby. :-P

"Cub fans don’t give up!" -Ron Santo, 8/12/2009

by Allie on Aug 13, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

If he wants to buy more than four beers he should be able to....

and if he goes too far he should suffer the consequences just like the beer-throwing yahoo hopefully will.

Where do you get off telling him that that’s his dependency on having a good time? You don’t know a damn thing about it.

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Before getting bent out of shape

realize that along with the 4 beer limit, the author also suggested LaRussa would manage the Cubs.

I’m not sure which suggestion is more offbase.

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Neither is off base.

I’ve had a four beer limit wristband on my body more than a few times, especially at some of the larger music venues.

And its been openly discussed in StL that the new ownership group and LaRussa aren’t especially fond of each other, and that TLR will need to see “marked improvement in effort by the front office to put a competitive core around Pujols” for TLR to stay. The moves thus far this year have undoubtedly helped though.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

TLR and management's issues have exactly what to do with him coming to the Cubs?

especially when they already have a manager under contract for next year?

And as for the wristband thing – so what? That’s one venues policies and the policies at Wrigley are far different. You really expect them to give up the revenue derived from beer sales?

I don’t think LaRussa or Beer Limitations are really realistic solutions or possibilities.

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's coming out of left field to think that if the season continues

the way it has this week, we WON’T have a manager under contract in 2010. Not saying LaRussa is coming here for sure, but us not having an opening is probably not going to be the deal breaker

by Illicat on Aug 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

On TLR...

… him not being happy with the management may cause him to leave, leaving him open to manage other teams including the Cubs. I’m assuming you realize all that, but beyond that i’m not exactly sure what your question is.

From this article on how the Cards could lose Pujols:

His frustration is palpable, but that’s nothing compared to Tony La Russa, who is in the final year of a two-year contract. La Russa — who has been in St. Louis 13 freaking years now — was the last management piece left standing last season when Cardinals brass embraced the scouting stathead types like VP Jeff Luhnow and general manager John Mozeliak and allowed old GM Walt Jocketty to leave for Cincinnati. In theory, the owners made the right decision: Jocketty mostly ignored the draft (a slight oversimplification, sure) and stocked his triple-A squads with veteran fill-ins like Roger Cedeno, Timo Perez, Brian Daubach and Larry Bigbie, where as Mozeliak and Luhnow use the minors, you know, to develop talent. But so far, none of that talent has turned into Albert Pujols, and La Russa, who was close to Jocketty, is frustrated: He feels like there are no reinforcements coming, and that ownership is being purposely cheap. He might be right. He might not be. All that matters is that he feels that way.

Now, i think the acquisitions so far this season prove they aren’t being as cheap as was assumed at the time of this writing, so i’d be slightly more inclined to believe he’d stay as when i read this originally.

As for the wristbands, i don’t know what to tell you. Policies can change in the face of things like fans throwing beer at opposing players on ESPN in prime time. Why did LiveNation give up that extra beer revenue when they put a wristband with four tabs on me the last time i was at First Midwest Bank Ampitheatre? Its not impossible, and it’s not even unrealistic.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand your position and I'm not trying to be antagonistic at all

I just don’t see the Cubs giving up that cash – especially considering how vocal management has been about squeezing as much revenue as possible out of wrigley.

cool.

And on a lighter note, isn’t it a bit funny that here we are discussing Tony LaRussa and a 4 drink limit to curb drunkenness? hmmm………

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 13, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why not hire Joe Morgan

away from ESPN? He knows everything about baseball and already loves the Cubs.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

That and we wouldn't have to listen to him

on Sunday Night baseball anymore.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

He is a genius.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

And he knows how to win in the postseason too:

“You can’t win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs.” – Joe Morgan

You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan

by dtc0405 on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can hear it now on Sunday Night Baseball

Miller: Joining us from the Cubs booth is the manager of the Chicago Cubs, Joe Morgan. Joe, how are you tonight.

Joe: Great Jon, thanks.

Miller: How has your season been going thus far?

Joe: I remember in 1975 when I had to turn an unassisted triple play to preserve our 4th consecutive perfect game and then hit the game winning walkoff grandslam, but this is more exciting.

Miller: Sure Joe. Sure.

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Joe: I remember in 1975 when I had to turn an unassisted triple play to preserve our 4th consecutive perfect game and then hit the game winning walkoff grandslam, but this is more exciting.

im pretty that grand slam was his 5th of the game. get your facts straight

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did briefly ponder the humor in the two points up for debate. Glad i wasn't alone.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

The solution is quite simple.

Take a vicodin or a xanax right before you go into the park, and when you finish your fourth beer, have someone wake you up to see if you’d like a fifth beer.

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

by Goodie1969 on Aug 13, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Da BEARS!

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance 1B/Manager 1908 World Champion Chicago Cubs

by imknowdummy on Aug 13, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions  

TWHS

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Security

I may be mistaken, but as I watched the video I thought I saw a security person just a couple of bodies away from the thrower? Honestly, it wouldn’t have mattered if there were 10 guys in the aisle, as they wouldn’t have stopped the guy from doing his idiotic deed.

The only thing they can really do about this is to have a total zero tolerance. Find the guy, arrest him, prosecute him, make him a pariah, make his name a joke about idiotic “fans”. It won’t stop people who are dead set on being fools, but it may give others a second thought.

As for the beer limits, I am too cheap to buy one watered down ballpark beer, not to mention 4, 8 or 12.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"

by Ross on Aug 13, 2009 5:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Right, and...

… they’d have gotten the right guy if they had more security.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, it was the fifth inning.

Identifying the guy is easy. Finding him is more difficult. I heard that while they were arresting the wrong guy, the guy who actually did it sneaked out of the park unnoticed.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

not suprising

he’s a little punk. They’ll get his ass now that the picture is out there.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jeff Baker?

Uh, when Jeff Baker is your big stick in the lineup for even one week, you know things are going badly.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Sure, but...

… once the actual “big sticks” get going, and they will, having Baker hitting this way gives you ANOTHER bat.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

we cant wait much longer for them to get going

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

True.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uh - no

when Aaron Miles is called upon to PH, for the pitcher, to lead off an inning and 4 runs behind, you know things are bad.

by The E-Man on Aug 13, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

or you have bad manager...

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 13, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO!

Oy.

Funny, sad, shit, there.

by The E-Man on Aug 13, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Want funny

Not sure how many listen to WGN, but we almost always do. Anyone who listens knows how players will say this is so and so and your are listening to Cubs baseball.

One of the Aarons did the other day and I boo’d him, I don’t know when I’ve seen my bf laugh that hard. He couldn’t believe I actually boo’d the radio.

I am someone who has never boo’d at a single game I’ve ever went to

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please enlighten an unbeliever

When can we expect the big sticks to begin their surge?

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just give them moar time.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you're going to post

in anagram form, I’ll need more staff to translate. ;>

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

October 1st

when they take their sons to the batting cage.

"Cub fans don’t give up!" -Ron Santo, 8/12/2009

by Allie on Aug 13, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow.

I do hope the Cubs turn it around this weekend and hopefully regain at least a game in the playoff hunt.

But I gotta tell ya, I am sick to DEATH of watching this offense play against quality teams. It is just embarassing – downright sickening. Scoring thirty runs this weekend against the Pirates isn’t going to give me any more confidence that in the unlikely event that this team backs into the playoffs, it won’t be a another three-and-out with impotent bats.

Forget anything else – if this team doesn’t learn to score runs against quality opponents, or go out and acquire someone who will, there’s not a chance in hell the 2009 Cubs are going to fare any better than the last two years’ teams.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 13, 2009 5:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Lou exercised that option before the season even started.

Doesn’t mean it couldn’t be amicably bought out.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can he hit with RISP?

if so, just keep him around.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 13, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Lou realizes its all but over for this year.

this team as currently constructed ( with injuries) simply is not good enough to be good teams consistently. That what it takes to make the playoffs. 4 1/2 games out with a only 49 left is surmountable, but with the Cards playing they way they have since getting Holliday , it seems extremely unlikely we have enough to overtake them. The Cubs would probably have to go 30-19 the rest of the way to catch the Cards. Does anyone actually see that happening?

Furthermore, i could really care less about the beer incident. I hope the guy gets arrested and all, but the amount of attention its getting is amazing. Nice to see three articles about it on the Tribune website.

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 13, 2009 5:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Well...

“4 1/2 games out with a only 49 left is surmountable”—-

Yes, but barely. They are now in a positon where they basically have to win every remaining series to get in – and that’s assuming the Cardinals don’t stay hot. It’s a tall order right now, and management is making it very clear that no additional help is coming.

If the bullpen were at fault for a lousy season, Hendry would have six new faces in there by Spring Training. So what does he do when the offense finishes last in almost every category?

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 13, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

So what does he do when the offense finishes last in almost every category?

give aaron miles more money?

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

HE cant anything because he signed much of the offense to

horrible contracts. Think you’ll find anyone willing to take any of our outfielders? That whats even mor distressing about this whole situation, we will at this lineup guys next year. Maybe we’ll get a new 2b or SS (or JH will give Baker a ridiculous four year deal because he has a good month) but you aren’t generally going to get get big bats at those positions.

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

"He can't do anything..."

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 13, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Barely surmountable

is a 4.5-game deficit with six or seven to play. Not 49.

If it takes a week to go from zero to 4.5, it can just as easily take a week to go the other way.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn - Bruce!

I am so impressed with your constant positive stance – sigh -

My attendance record now stands at 2-11 I think.

There is nothing in the last two weeks to make me believe that they are going to do anything but go down the toilet.

Maybe I should hire you to be my career counselor, buddy.

by The E-Man on Aug 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stop going to Cubs games!!!!

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am done until

September.

If they are out of it, I’ll try to sell as many as I can!

However – last year I was 17-3 (do not count the Playoffs!)

This year the baseball gods have punished me for the fun last year.

by The E-Man on Aug 13, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, E,

Ever think maybe it’s all your fault? :-)

Hang in there, buddy. It’s baseball, not life and death.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

How can you say

the Cubs are not life and death? ;)

by The E-Man on Aug 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know

It’s much more important than that. :)

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mine is 24-12

And I have even better on the road than at home.(18-10 at Wrigley and 6-2 on the road) Alas I won’t be at my next game till the 25th. HOLD ON BOYS TILL I GET THERE.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

8-8 this season

4-0 in Washington, 3-2 in Milwaukee, 1-1 in Cincinnati, 0-1 in St. Louis, 0-1 in Philly and … 0-3 in Detroit. Ouch.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

0-3 in Spring Training. 1-0 In Miwakee. 1-0 at Wrigley. 0-3 in Detroit.

About the average year I’d say…

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Aug 14, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Miwakee=Milwaukee

Need more coffee…

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Aug 14, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Forgot 0-1 in spring training

Did make it to a Cubs-Rockies game in Tucson.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I had forgotten how good your record was.

We need you to go on the next road trip.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bad timing

I will be in LA when the Cubs are in New York and of course in New York when the Cubs are in LA.
They will have to survive the next 10 days without me but that is an impressive record and I did nothing to game it.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

TWES

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 13, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could you

break it down further for us? What is your record when the Cubs are playing teams with a winning record?

by azjazzman on Aug 13, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

A respectable 12-9

Rockies 1-1
Cards 4-3
Marlins 3-0
Braves 1-2
Giants 1-1
Phillies 1-2
White Sox 1-0

What can I say . I am a lucky charm.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know the Cubs SHOULD pay me to go to games

I can be had for well under half the MLB minimum which is somewhere north of $400,00 and obviously the can
pro rate it for the remainder of the season but I would expect a full share of the post season bonus.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is someone always after you?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 13, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just How Well Do the Cubs Need To Finish

The Cardinals need to go 26-20 the rest of the way for 90 wins.
The Cubs need to go 32-17 the rest of the way for 90 wins.

If the Cardinals just go 23-23 to finish the regular season, then the Cubs would have to go 29-20 to tie St. Louis.

It’s possible for the Cubs to win the division, but they’ve got to get their stuff together in a hurry.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is....

disturbing news.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reality

The problem is: If you figure it will take 90 wins to win the division, which I think is about right – then you look and see the Cubs have to go 32-17 to get to 90 and the Cardinals only have to go 26-20. Factor in the difference that Holliday has made (he is still 1.300+ OPS with St. Louis) and you can see the problem. Can the Cubs go 32-17? Well, yeah – but I wouldn’t count on it.

Of course, you always have the Wild Card, but I still the WC will likely come out of the West. The Rockies and Giants are playing pretty well and it in unlikely they will BOTH stumble down the stretch.

by azjazzman on Aug 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oops

Memphiscub got in before me, but he is exactly right.

by azjazzman on Aug 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

The beauty of baseball

is that its fortunes can change from day to day.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

The reality of baseball is...

…the Cubs’ fortunes don’t even change from century to century.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

And this is exactly

the mind-set that much change around the supporters of this franchise.

Unless you have followed this team for 101 years, you have no right to cite any of that. It’s a copout.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a crutch

The current Cubs fans have no right to be any more pissed off than Mariners fans.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

you said mariners, make up your mind.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mets have won championships in my lifetime...

….even had more than a couple of World Series appearances.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

The thought police

strike again. Are there any other rules that you’d like to issue while you have the floor?

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

You should be banned for life.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

How incredibly

democratic of you.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

More like

a benevolent dictatorship, although that’s up to Al.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha ha ha

I would be in favor of that….as long as I can be the dictator. Can I count on your support?

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can see you

as an essential member of my inner circle.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rest assured

that my Army Chief of Staff Not Bruce Froemming knows how to deal with dissidents.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dear Otto

may you always remain the wonderful wacky guy that you are.

Regards,
The Despot

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 13, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I propose a ban on bans...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 13, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

but it is somewhat predictable. I said at the beginning of the month that the Cubs mission for August, given their schedule and St. Louis’ schedule, was to not get buried. They are well on their way to doing just that. They do have a shot in September if they don’t get too far behind.

You say they dropped 4.5 games in a week and they can make it up in a week. The problem is, here is who the Cardinals play the rest of August: 3 vs SD at home, 3 vs LA away (the Cards just took 3 out of 4 from LA at Busch), 3 vs SD away, 3 vs Houston at home and 3 vs Washington at home.

Do you see anyone gaining 4.5 games on the Cardinals during that stretch, given the way they are playing right now?

by azjazzman on Aug 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

The odds are against them but it is THEIR HANDS

They are now 3 games back in the loss column and have three games left with the Cardinals. I don’t want to calculate the odds of the Cubs sweeping in St. Louis but as of today it is still in their hands.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

If the Cubs Sweep the Cardinals...

The Cubs have 46 games left against teams other than the Cards.
The Cards have 43 games left against teams other than the Cubs.

If the Cubs sweep the Cardinals in that 3-game series in September, then that would mean the Cubs would have to go 26-20 in remaining games NOT against St. Louis to tie the Cards, if St. Louis goes 23-20 in remaining games NOT against the Cubs.

It’s possible.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh I get all of that

I just mean that as of today it is in their control.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well it is always

in a team’s hands as long as they have more games to play than games they trail.

The loss column argument has always struck me as very weak. When you are essentially a .500 team, you are as likely to lose a remaining game as to win it.

Besides, the way the Cubs are playing at the moment, I’m not sure having their fate in their hands is a good thing…they’s probably drop it.

by azjazzman on Aug 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hendry made this bed. It should cost him his job.

One Soriano-level mistake should cost a GM his job. Hendry has made several 8-figure errors. Sadly, it’s time for him to go. The window has closed on this era.

Unfortunately, the hangover is going to be a bitch. Waiting the Soriano-Dempster-Fukudome- Bradley contracts out is just going to be a painful stretch, and it’s going to be equally painful if Harden were to join, say, the Cardinals.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 13, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I couldn't agree more...

…and some of his mistakes extend beyond just bad contracts.

I do believe the teflon is likely starting to wear thin for Hendry.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 13, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Spring training game??

Al, you were there but for me at home once the 6th inning hit it was eerierly like a spring training game. Just going thru the motions, no enthusiasm, we appeared dead. Hope that changes. That and Soriano, every game I am feeling worse about the next 5 years. Not caring much for Geo right now either.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Aug 13, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions  

I like

your suggestions for more effective security, but I’m not sure about the armbands. Not that it isn’t a good idea, but I think it is too easily circumvented. I am not a beer drinker and not terribly creative, but off the top of my head, I can think of multiple ways someone could get around this. I’m sure a serious beer drinker would not let an arm band with holes in it prevent him from getting more beers.

But, it is a good topic for discussion and anything that slows people from getting wasted and doing foolish things at the ball park is all to the good as far as I am concerned.

Too bad they didn’t get the right guy to begin with so they could determine how intoxicated he was. I think the guy is a real scum bag – pointed at someone else at then slinking out of the stadium. Can’t get more cowardly than that. I am confident he will be identified.

by azjazzman on Aug 13, 2009 5:34 PM CDT reply actions  

The wristbands wouldn't FIX the problem...

… but they’d help. 4 beers per legal adult may still result in 8 drank buy one guy and zero by his wife, or 6 each by two people and zero by their friend, but it still caps the total debauchery and drinking in the area.

The real question is then, do they go stadium-wide with the policy? Because you can exit the bleachers and come back in…

And how would this affect revenue? As i said in the fan post on this issue, i’ve heard they team does between three quarters and $1.25 million in beer sales per game.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's an incredible amount of beer sold.

At $6.75 per beer that would mean 148,000 beers per game — about four for every single person in the park.

Now, since some people don’t drink beer and there are underage kids at most games, that seems like a lot.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree Al, I think 1 mill from beer each game sounds like too much...

Crunching the numbers, it doesn’t seem right. I would think they make maybe half a mill per game which is still a big chunk of change.

by aznsensation on Aug 13, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course, that's gross revenue, not profit.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty close to profit, i bet.

What do you think they have in a cup of beer? Probably more in the solo cup than the beer itself i’d bet.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're right.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hummmm... yeah, that does seem like a bit much.

I heard that figure after a game i worked at vs. the Sox last year… maybe that’s just what they were estimating for THAT game?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they got CLOSE to that on occasion though. For every kid drinking no beers, a dude drinking 8?

Maybe not.

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

The big thing about Ramirez

is not so much the Cubs record when he is out of the line-up (you would expect that) but how many games he has missed. 71 games? That is a TON of missed games and it makes you wonder. He has always been prone to hamstring pulls, etc., but when your best hitter is missing 60% of the games, that is a real concern.

by azjazzman on Aug 13, 2009 5:37 PM CDT reply actions  

.595 winning % with A Ram

plays out to 96 wins. If we were on that pace, we’d all be pretty happy. He obviously is the one player on the team they could not afford to lose.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

he dislocated his shoulder

what exactly does it make you wonder?

by Illicat on Aug 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's over...and it's been over

This Cub team has not looked good for an extended stretch at any period of time in 2009. This Phillies series was almost as sobering at the playoff debacle versus the Dodgers last year. The tale of this clusterfu*k of a season boils down to the following.

1. Cubs are a whopping 21 games UNDER .500 against teams with a winning record, or so says WMVP ESPN 1000 Radio on my drive home.

2. Cubs pissed away two months of exceptional starting pitching earlier in the season. The cardinal rule of baseball that was pounded into my head as a youngster and a player was the following….“thou shalt not waste quality starting pitching, or lest your season will go down the tubes.” Well, that is precisely what the Cubs did in the first half. With the starting pitching the Cubs were blessed with they should have been in a position to run away and hide in the NL Central. But that didn’t happen AT ALL.

3. Alfonso Soriano is awful. Awful offensively, awful defensively, and non-existent against upper echelon teams. And there is not a single damned thing the Cubs can do about Soriano for the next several years other than banishing him to the bench.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 5:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Don't worry everyone!

BLou is here! I was so curious as to what you had to say, its so insightful and varied that I just can’t wait to hear your opinion.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Before you jump down his throat

Read his comments. He’s 100% bang on.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

absolutely true

it’s a bit blunt but its still very true.

by aznsensation on Aug 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I read

I’ve read it a hundred times, its the exact same crap repeated every time the Cubs lose.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

From Day One to today

Some people enjoy being miserable, and making others miserable, too. This season, and this board, have absolutely convinced me of that.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Life is as it is.

Sometimes the only conclusion of a baseball analysis is negative. If we were confined to positive analysis only, we wouldn’t be truthful, and frankly, this site would be very boring.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

The negativity

is there even when they win. And it was there last year, too.

It’s always there.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

A hug?

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

Cubs fans have to shake their neuroses and quit acting like every normal part of a baseball season signals the beginning of the end. That’s no way to go through life, son.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

PV?

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

one of these

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

A red background?

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's the problem with BLou.

He only points out the negative. That doesn’t mean that what he wrote above is wrong, though.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 13, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not it.

You can agree with his minor points (not that I do), and still realize that the overall conclusion is blind to basic baseball reality. Any team can go into a massive slump – even the current Cardinals. Any team – see the Nationals recently – can string off 10 wins out of 12.

Things look bad right now, but the season is hardly over.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Aug 13, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

stats and all that are predictors of potential future performance based on the past performance. What we are all commenting on it what we see this year on the field.

It is MOST LIKELY true that some of these players will regress to the mean, but when? It may not happen until next year?

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haven't said this in a while.

But: Loud, sustained applause.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

indeed

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course

If DeRosa were on this team, it would be in first place by 12 games. How silly of me not to notice.

I will never back down from the absolute overreaction to his departure. Another chapter out of many in the history of Silly Cubs Fans.

You say he’s not Jesus Christ, but you certainly act like he is.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did he?

I quote from his post:

What Mark DeRosa is, and has been for the last 4 years, is an incredibly useful – and cheap – piece of a hopeful championship team’s 25-man roster.

That’s all any of us have been saying. That incredibly useful and cheap piece was removed and not replaced by anything nearly as useful.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 14, 2009 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Forget it, Al.

For all of NBF’s valid points, and he has them more often than not, he simply refuses to be objective or reasonable on this.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I know.

Lost my head for trying to be reasonable.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 14, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

And you're the biggest agent provacateur

on this subject, Al.

D98 contradicts himself all over that post.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where does D98 contradict himself?

Not being a smartass; seriously asking.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

How is that a contradiction?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Two problems with this train of thought

1 – Trading anyone doesn’t necessarily make the Cubs worse. However, that’s not a contradiction.

2 – It’s pretty easy to say, looking backwards, that trading DeRosa for the return that they got made the 2009 Cubs worse.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll grant you

the first point.

Looking backwards … well, hindsight is always perfect. But I didn’t have a problem with the move at the time. Hendry sold high and saw an opportunity to build the farm system a bit while still maintaining the quality of the big club.

Bottom line is, losing DeRosa does not make the difference between first place by 5 games and second place by five games. And having him does not improve this team noticeably.

Having players like Soriano, Bradley and even Miles perform up to historic norms while having a full season of Ramirez does improve this team by leaps and bounds.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

This response is measured and reasonable.

I can’t ask for anything more than that.

The underperformers are indeed the root cause of the Cubs not having a better record. I do think they’d be a bit better if they still had DeRosa, but that won’t be why they fail to finish first if, in fact, they do fail.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

That term.... it does not mean what you think it means.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

And to correct something

I didn’t Photoshop my avatar. One of the other posters here did (I won’t reveal his/her name, lest the DeRomaniacs pounce on this person), and I asked if I could use it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, that would be me

And I’ve subtly (or not so subtly) mocked DeRomantics in the past. I complained loudly when he was traded away, but I learned to live with it.

Do I wish he were still a Cub? Sure – we could have used the help at 3B when Rami went down. Do I stare at his line in a Cardinals box score every night and curse the day that Jim Hendry was put upon this Earth to cause pain to me specifically? No chance.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Aug 14, 2009 4:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because the Cubs play the same crappy way every day.

We all dislike that BLou only appears when the Cubs lose, but that doesn’t cancel the truth of his analysis. We have to learn to take the criticism like grownups. Otherwise, we’ll start to sound like the players who are talking about Brenly because he’s calling the plays as he sees them.

The odds, quoted above, say that for all practical purposes, the Cubs 2009 season ended last Saturday in Colorado. That’s why Lou sounds and looks as he does. He just cannot say that aloud. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Lou is reevaluating whether he wants to come back next year, because with the contracts that management gave to the same sucky players, most of them will be back next year. The bright spot for next year is that Ramírez, Lilly, Zambrano and Dempster should be healthy most of the season.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are the Braves out of it, too?

After all, they’re as far back or farther than the Cubs are.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

5 out

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, that tells me

about your prejudicial thought processes.

Let’s revisit this all in 10 days, shall we?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

That wasn't prejudicial, just what the standings show

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Braves are on a five game winning streak

and have a better record. So his “prejudicial” thought processes, are often referred to by others as “facts”

by Illicat on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

And you know as well as I do

that unless the season ended tomorrow, it really doesn’t mean much.

Another team is in the Cubs’ position, they’re right in it. But if it’s the Cubs, they’re hopeless.

Doesn’t sound too objective to me.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

And a worse record and in a losing streak, compared to the Braves.

Read any hopelessness in that? Or just the facts?

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's the case TODAY

that’ doesn’t mean it will be the case in a week, or 10 days, or six weeks. Since it wasn’t the case a week ago.

Unless the season is supposed to end this weekend, and nobody told me.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's all was asked and answered

Your question

So are the Cubs still in the Wild Card race?

I am sure we both assumed you meant today, not September 27th, 2009.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just trying to see

where their heads are at.

In the toilet, evidently.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair

This recap was going to be and is negative. That probably influenced the tone of any answer given to a direct question and direct answer. See how things get started around here? Myself and FJ just answered the question. No one mentioned that it was hopeless or not.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually Bruce, what you're looking for is Subjectivity, dressed up as objectivity

The Braves are playing much better baseball. The Cubs are falling in the standings, while the Braves are rising. If the situations were reversed, and THEN he was saying the Braves have a better shot at the wildcard, he’d have a lack of objectivity.

by Illicat on Aug 13, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

TheyDO have a mind of their own, don't they? LOL

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully, that's NOT WSS lol

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

TWSS

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about the 4 straight months of "ALL IS WELL!!!"

After a while, can’t anyone give some credit for legitimate baseball analysis?

Since April, for instance, I’ve been posting that it was a Bad Idea to trade away Mark DeRosa, especially given that there was no financial incentive for doing so, and doubly so because of the middling return Hendry got.

The response has been, in the following order – “DeRosa is a journeyman who would not have helped this team!” when he was struggling in April. Then, when he turned it on, it was “He is only driving in all those runs b/c Cleveland’s offense is so good.” (That was kind of hilarious.) Then, it was “He is in the AL where he can’t hurt us, except for one solitary series.” Then, it was “Yes, he’s on STL, but hey, he’s hurt.” Now there are no more excuses.

And finally, the last refuge for the pollys – “you all just want to be miserable.”

NO!

We want to be happy, and what will make us happy is a winning Cubs team! And stupid moves by the front office — and horrible performance from the current roster — are likely to result in me being miserable.

Which is why I decry stupid moves by Hendry as they happen, and why I continue to do so when things turn out precisely as anyone should have expected.

What is incomprehensible is the mindset that Cubs fans should be blindly happy until the team is mathematically eliminated. Open your eyes, people!

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 13, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

You must have been reading the wrong posts

There are many, many “blind” spot you can accuse BCB folks over but DeRosa is not one of them . I think over 90% of posters were outraged over that trade. It might have been the ONLY thing I Al and Blou agreed on. It was the most senseless of all the off season moves. Frankly I don’t think most people liked ANY of the off season moves but trading DeRosa was by far the worst. It looks like we got some very nice young pitchers but they won’t help much this year with
apologies to Stevens.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Talk to NBF about DeRosa.

He’s actually changed his user avatar to a picture of DeRosa as Christ, in order to mock anyone who would question the decision to trade DeRosa.

Believe me, this argument has been going all year. Now that I think about it, it’s completely remarkable. At what point will he admit that it was a bad trade? The end of the year? The end of DeRo’s career? The end of Stevens-Gaub-Archer’s careers?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 13, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't worry about it

The impudence is recognized as foul and received by others who post too.

Post your thoughts and don’t worry about it. There are all kinds on the www and no need to think those attacks are a legitimate reponse to your comments or argument.

by AboutTheCubs on Aug 13, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not from the day it happened

Stevens might be of some use this year and some day he and Gaub and Archer might all be on the MLB team but not having DeRosa this season has been devastating. He would hardly have replaced A-Ram’s bat but
he could have done a perfectly effective job at 3rd when he was out.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2009 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Devastating" is too strong a word, Jess

I was talking about this very issue with a Cardinals fan tonight and he found the Cubs fans’ reaction to this eminently laughable. Granted, he doesn’t think much of DeRosa, anyway.

I’ll say it again: If this season hinged on whether or not the Cubs had DeRosa, this team wasn’t very good in the first place.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well I am sure Cardinal fans are laughing their ass off

We trade DeRosa to save 2.5 million in payroll this season and replace him with Aaron Miles. There are lots of dominos in what has been going wrong this year but trading DeRosa for players who could not make any important contribution and leaving the Cubs exposed for he massive gap when A-Ram went down is one of the biggest.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hendry ain't a mind-reader, Jess

It isn’t his fault Miles is hitting almost 100 points below his career average. And quite a few Cards fans I know (I live amongst a ton of them) weren’t too pleased about losing him.

Maybe I’m in a minority about the DeRosa deal, but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong about it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're talking to a minority of Cardinals fans, too.

I don’t think too many of them were unhappy to see him go.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 14, 2009 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

(Miles, that is.)

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 14, 2009 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

At what point will you cave on this issue?

Seriously, do we have to wait for all of the players involved to finish their careers and retire? The results are in, NBF. 95% of precincts have reported. It’s over.

2009 was an absolutely key year for this current group of players. The key players are aging, and the roster is going to lose some useful parts in 2010 (Harden, for instance).

2009 was a “go for the brass ring” sort of year.

And instead, Hendry traded one of the team’s top run producers, who also happened to be the effective backup at 4 positions, for 3 players who had a zero-point-zero percent chance of helping the 2009 squad.

And then he invested the “savings” from trading DeRosa into 2 years of Aaron Miles, a 32-year-old player with a career OPS+ of 74, who has less positional flexibility than DeRosa and absolutely zero power.

And just to be a nice guy, he doubled Miles’ salary.

We now know that the results of the trade have been an unqualified disaster. Neither Fontenot nor Miles have been able to replace even a fraction of DeRosa’s production…. and when Ramirez was hurt, Fontenot had to play out of position and Miles was able to show his career immolation as an everyday player.

And for the cherry on top of this 2009 crap sundae, we got 7 innings worth of 7.36 ERA from Stevens. Awesome.

And you’re still holding out hope that these three middle relief prospects are going to have such a massive effect on our bullpen in a few years that it will justify going into the 2009 season shorthanded. That’s lovely.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

You just might be

the King of the Neurotics. Get passionate about something that really matters in life, will you?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

If being passionate about the Cubs is "neurotic".....

….then you’ve spent a great deal of time posting on this board and engaging in the same neuroses.

I’m getting awfully tired of dealing with your ad hominems, and your habit of ascribing ridiculous, over the top arguments to me. You’d rather fight a strawman, because you know your position is indefensible.

Your avatar is the best evidence of your tendency to build strawmen. With every post you make, you’re re-affirming your false argument that other posters said that DeRosa would be the Cubs’ saviour.

Your avatar is offensive, and was explicitly designed to incite, and to be offensive, to me in particular.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You really are an idiot, aren't you?

Yes, I selected that avatar just to piss off you, and only you.

If you had read more carefully, you’d see I didn’t create it. I picked it, however, to mock myself more than anybody else. If you had a brain bigger than a walnut, maybe you’d understand that.

You’re right, you might not be neurotic. You might be psychotic. Is this Ted Bundy communicating from the great beyond?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

You continue to embarrass yourself.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Replacing a 105 OPS+ with a 26 OPS+ is devastating.

And the result was completely predictable, as evidenced by the fact that I repeatedly predicted it.

Going into the 2009 season with no backup 3B was ridiculous, and completely indefensible. Hendry traded DeRosa with absolutely no plan in mind for a backup 3B, and had to make one up on the fly, first signing Koskie (who retired), then trying Miles over there (and learning he couldn’t make the throw), and finally throwing his hands in the air and deciding that our new starting 2B was also our backup 3B. Awesome.

I’m sure you’ll have the last laugh in 2012 with 2 of the 3 of Archer-Gaub-Stevens are in our middle relief corps and earning 400K, thereby saving the team the trouble of signing a couple of equivalent middle relievers, and saving the team a couple of million for a couple of years.

In the meantime, the window of opportunity for the Lee-Ramirez-Soriano-Zambrano Cubs will have closed.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

So you're basically saying

No DeRosa is the reason for the Cubs’ failings this season.

Unbelievable. Simply, astoundingly stupid.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

When you can't win an argument, build a strawman.

….or, in your case, just lie about what the other guy is saying.

No, neither I, nor anyone else, has said that losing DeRosa is THE reason for the Cubs’ failings this season.

What I, and others, have repeatedly said, is that losing DeRosa is A reason for the Cubs’ failings in 2009.

That is now an objective fact. With 110-odd games played, we know what DeRosa has done in 2009, and we know what DeRosa’s replacements on the Cubs roster have done in 2009. You can no longer reasonably argue that the Cubs’ 2009 team was improved through that trade. (Although Lord knows, you’ll still try.)

Trading DeRosa is also, unfortunately, the most unnecessary reason for the Cubs’ 2009 decline. The drop-off from DeRosa to Miles was a 100% self-inflicted wound.

For example, Soriano’s unexplainable 2009 suckage could not have been avoided by the front office. Neither could Soto’s fall-off, Dempster’s return to the mean, Marmol’s wildness, Fontenot’s failures… those are on-field failures to execute.

The DeRosa trade, on the other hand, was completely avoidable. In fact, it could have been avoided quite easily. Simply saying “no thanks” to Cleveland would have sufficed.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Blah blah blah

Maybe you can get a job as DeRo’s personal assistant or something.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You forgot those three little words...

“at the time”

because at the time, a totally reasonable sane person could probably make that argument. Some might agree, some might not, but that argument could be made.

But that same totally reasonable sane person would probably look at that trade now and say “boy, that really blew up in our faces”. And most people now would probably agree.

Call it gut instinct, a wild hunch, maybe I have ESPN, boy I’m really going out on a limb here, but somehow I have this feeling you’re the exception to that rule.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 14, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Some trades work

and some trades don’t.

The fact that a lot of Cubs fans don’t understand that, and attrribute supernatural powers to certain players, is not my fault.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

But that's not it

And either you know it and enjoy the silliness, or you are being thick. Since you generally seem to know what you are talking about, I have to think it may be the former.

No one is saying the Cubs would be in first with DeRosa. What people have maintained all season is that there was no backup at 3B, and trading a useful piece with no viable contribution for the present – for a team with championship aspirations, makes little sense.

Now, you’ll reply to my post and accuse me of saying DeRosa is the greatest player this side of Babe Ruth when I’ve done nothing of the sort – but that’s how you’ve been replying to all these comments all season. Go ahead and knock yourself out if you want; I long ago accepted the fact that you’re on this bizarre crusade to paint others as they are on a bizarre crusade that they really aren’t on.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

The bizarre crusade is coming from your side, Shanghai

When people are comparing the DeRosa trade to the Lou Brock trade (as was done on another thread), I don’t think I’m the one being “thick.”

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

See, that's a strawman argument

Because it’s not “my side” unless my side is why can’t you be objective on this?

I never equated that trade to the Lou Brock trade, and anyone who did is dellusional.

Essentially, what you have just said is, if someone agrees with you on one topic, but they say something else that is completely ridiculous, that makes your statement ridiculous.

Enjoy the crusade!

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Defensible", if you're a team in selling mode, like CLE.

The Cubs were not sellers going into the 2009 season.

Do you think that STL would trade DeRosa, right now, for three organizational arms with “set-up man” as their best-case upside? Of course not. Heck, they just traded one of their best relief-prospect arms away for DeRosa.

Of course, they’re trying to win the 2009 World Series.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well he is and was in a distinct minority on that.

I mean perhaps there was a a little too much delusion that Cubs could actually get him BACK and it would solve everything but it was by far the most inexplicable trade and I hold to the conspiracy theory that it was part of the
psycho to desire to get more left handed. I would like to think it was part of carefully calculated strategy to get Peavy and I still would think it was bad idea but it would make more sense.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2009 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

getting more left handed wasn't exactly a "conspiracy theory", was it?

I think that was a pretty well-known and evident objective for the off-season. Obviously, its need and/or validity can be debated but it was no secret.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 14, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Idiotic

If it’s their white whale, it’s the white whale of every GM/manager in baseball.

But for simpletons, it’s an easy thing at which to point a finger.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I too hold out hope for this team

however, Blou is spot on. Soriano has been brutal this year, add that with Soto, Fontenot and Bradley (at least until 1 August), this team has not hit when they need to get a hit.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was a refreshing read.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Almost like you'd seen it before?

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

i had not

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can you do all of us a favor

And stop watching the Cubs this year. Then we can stop seeing a waste of space for everytime you post.

Thanks
-Disgruntled Cubs Fan

by ak123 on Aug 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's a miserable attention seeking lil man

whose joy comes from them losing and him logging on his computer and saying I told you so. We don’t even know if he truely feels that way or if he just likes the attention.

He’s already suffering more than I am.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

The way I look at it

If they are mathematically eliminated, I don’t have to get in trouble at work logging on here to chat or follow games on gamecast :)

by ak123 on Aug 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I listened to them in 06

I didn’t get into online until 08 actually.

But I did try once to tell someone to pound sand…….. but I giggled so much it didn’t work

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

speaks volumes as to your baseball upbringing

if your coaches used the words “thou” or “lest” when giving instruction or advice.

All kidding aside, I do agree with you on points 1 and 2. The offense has been truly offensive this season.

Sori is no different than LBR, MB, Dome, D Lee, A Ram, and Soto for extended periods of “suckage” this year. The team has lacked consistency.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Thou & Lest

are just part of his upbringing as a Quaker.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 13, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree...

…that if they fall short this year (and that is looking more and more likely), the number one thing you can point to is how many well pitched games they pissed away.

If you can’t win your share of games when your pitching is stellar, it is very difficult to overcome.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 13, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you, Cubs.

For putting me out of my misery early enough to enjoy the rest of the summer with my two young daughters.

Injuries, under performers, and Lou shutting down. Oh well…wait til next year…

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions  

There probably won't be room on the bandwagon

should you decide to jump back on if they get hot later … so make your decision wisely …

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever

Can you point to even one shred of argument that suggests the 2009 Cubs will be just fine? Answer is no. All you do is crap down the throat of the objective who know a rotten ballclub when they see one. And then to top if off with a cherry you label anybody who is negative on this team a non-Cub fan.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Far too talented

to stay this bad this long. And not out of the race by a long shot.

Don’t you have better things to do, like breed pit bulls or something?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's 4 1/2 months into the season and they have looked like garbage throughout

21 games under .500 against plus .500 teams. And not one sustained stretch during any point of the season where you could say to yourself, “wow this team is on a roll.” To top if off the most vital member of the offense is out with a bum shoulder and the resident “ace” / assclown is on the DL. I won’t even mention the wondrous bullpen.

But you stick to the same unsubstaintiated argument…the 2009 Cubs will be just fine.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

The truth is

neither of us know how it’s going to play out.

I’m not saying it absolutely will work out. You’re saying it absolutely won’t.

You’re the one who’s talking out his ass.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Believe me, I hope you're right

and I would be very pleasantly surprised. It just doesn’t feel like there’s a lot of magic in this team.

The pitchers didn’t get the support they needed in the first couple months and the pen is getting worn down. No Aramis, Sori unpredictable to say the least…not feeling it.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

I Hope NBF your right and this team gets there shit together, however there are so many aspects going against them. The team looks like its manager, " screw it, we won two division titles get off my back". They play listless ball.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 13, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure I'll keep paying attention to them

I could never walk away. But I feel freed emotionally from the 2009 season. We had a great regular season last year. Won the division 3 straight years. If it doesn’t happen this year…so be it.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 13, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can get them to the postseason

Listen I’m on a 9 game winning streak in person at Cubs games. That includes seeing them in 4 different ball-parks so it works on the road too.

Pay for my flight to Chicago and tickets to the game. They will win. And if they lose at the game I’m at, I’ll reimburse you for the tickets.

Seriously this is your last chance for post season possibilities. Take this post seriously!!!!!

by ak123 on Aug 13, 2009 5:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Team looks beat and tired

Sure good pitching will do that, but the Cubs have looked like a team not going to the playoffs playing teams that say " we will be in the playoffs"
 I just can’t see this team going 31-18 and getting to 89 wins. There schedule is favorable, However with Ramy out there offense is abysmal.
 You watch the Phils and you see how a team gets built correctly. There homegrown players in Utley, Howard, Rollins, J A Happ and Hamels. Then they add perfect pieces, Ibanez, Lee, Werth, Victorino, Lidge, Blanton and Feliz. Meanwhile the Cubs homegrown players are, Soto, Theriot, Shark, Fox, and “Z” and the pieces they add: Dome, Soriano, Lilly, Lee, Ramy, Harden, Bradley and Miles. A huge disparity in homegrown talent, and Hendrys failure to improve from the 2008 team leaves us with this team that can not beat a team that has a winning record. I still hold on and hope this team can right itself, however by watching this team they appear to be down and have no desire to go the extra to get it done.
 Lou and Hendry need to be let go, and a new fresh look needs to be put in place. Sadly this team has run its course, changes need to be made. Players will be tough to move, that is why management change should be in order.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 13, 2009 5:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Memo to Bruce

The past and previous “formulas” for winning haven’t worked over the past 101 years.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you recomennd

Hendry and Lou comeback? Seriously? Hendrys moves this offseason were terrible. Goodness we been down that road. His contracts have handcuffed any moves that possibly could be made. Lou’s dugout decisions have been, I am being kind here, average at best.
 Enough, they fail to make the playoffs, they should be let go.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 13, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

There overall

body of work is 0-7 in the playoffs. That is the goal right? Advance in the playoffs. They have not done that, and this team has contracts that no team would take on in a trade.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 13, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry 0-6

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say having a horrible idea at how to improve a 97-win team

Lou said, “Let’s get more left-handed.” Hendry proceeds to gut said team. No thanks. Let them both go.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 13, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

*Sigh*

Nobody gutted anything. Virtually every key member of that team is on this team.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

We apparently have a difference of opinion

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 13, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh really

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 13, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, let's see ...

Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Soto, Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, Fontenot, Theriot, Fukudome, Marmol, Johnson …

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll see your see and raise you...

Wood, DeRosa, Edmonds, Blanco, Marquis.

A reasonable person would probably say those guys were key members of last year’s club.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 14, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, no Henry Blanco

means no World Series. Marquis? The guy two-thirds of this board hated (including myself, for a start or two)? Edmonds, Gary Gaetti in waiting? DeRosa, an aging utility player who had a career year? Wood, whose arm could fall off at any moment?

The Cubs kept the right guys. And they added good pieces. If the guys who still are here played to their norms, and if injuries were half of what they’d been, we’re not having this conversation.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Silver lining of the season being over????

This trainwreck of a season will hopefully launch the “Ricketts Revolution” just as soon as they take ownership reins. And that revolution should mean the ouster of the entire front office and the very tired and defeated Lou PIniella (who wants nothing more than to go home).

New strategic vision for building a winning franchise, new player scouting and development philosophy, new salary management approach, new front office, new everything ….. AN EXTREME LONG OVERDUE REBUILDING JOB. No more slapping a new coat of paint on a pig like Hendry does.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 5:58 PM CDT reply actions  

My question is...

… do you actually retype this stuff daily, or just have it saved in one central place for your copy and pasting needs?

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

by AndrewJStone on Aug 13, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I tried googling it slap coat of paint on a pig and

slap a coat of paint on a pig baseball and didn’t come up with any hits

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

you need moar baseball acumen

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

SIgh....

For those of you who take the short bus to school, the reference is interpreted to mean you can’t keep going after band-aid solutions to fix something that is fundamentally flawed to begin with.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

tanks smurt ghuy

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it has something to do

with “thou” and “lest”—but I am not completely sure.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

BCB has devolved into the land of attacking objective messengers

The only sentiments that are permitted to fly around here are the kool-aid comments and the ramblings of the eternal optimists that fly in the face of reality and objective conclusion. It’s all about attacking the negative and labeling them an anti-Cub fan.

And Al Yellon has let that happen. Which is really quite sad. Because there was a time during the heyday of this board where the debate was rich and intelligent.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:06 PM CDT reply actions  

As long as you don't have more than 4 beers.

"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?" Harry Caray

by CubbieintheSouth on Aug 13, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about?!

You’ve been kicked off this board multiple times for multiple reasons. When have you ever been a part of rich and intelligent debate on BCB?

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

Because you are the farthest thing from an “objective messenger”.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Have you read your game recaps lately????

Or the horse nonsense you permit on this board during game threads??? This board used to be participated in by a lot of true diehards who could go beyond the default conclusion that Dusty sucks or Lou sucks and who could actually debate what was right or wrong with the club. Posters like MPH73 for example.

Objective? Tell me then Al how do you chalk up the Cubs being 21 games under .500 against plus .500 ballclubs and say that is OK?!? After all, that is an OBJECTIVE fact.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Where did I say that was OK?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

ANSWER THE QUESTION>>>>

For JUST ONCE how about one of you kool-aid drinkers make it NOT about attacking the messenger and address the issue !!!

SO AL YELLON, tell us what YOU think of the FACT that the Cubs are 21 games under .500 against plus ballclubs???

I’m waiting….

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you'll need another timeout.

Is it good? No. Does it mean the Cubs can’t win the division? No, it doesn’t.

Satisfied? Or are you going to start yelling again?

I can’t imagine you actually like being a sports fan at all, you’re so negative all the time.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

There in the fine print and a font size of .00000001 Al Yellon says the complete thought of "no" in response to asking his opinion on the record thing against plus .500 ballclubs

Then he calls me negative. It’s all about Blou and his negative ways folks….the 2009 Cubs will be just fine.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Funny that you're the only one in the thread whose typed the words...

“the 2009 Cubs will be just fine”

And I still havent’ typed them…I cut and pasted from your comment.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously you don't read the recaps

to quote Al from THIS recap, “No, I’m not talking about the 2009 season, although it is rapidly fading unless the Cubs can make a quick turnaround.”

Doesn’t sound like its all rainbows and butterflys from Al, does it?

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al is a Cubs fan, obviously

but I think he’s also objective and calls a spade a spade.

You forget something, BLou: This is supposed to be fun.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm....

So “FUN” equal only being a kool-aid drinker and never dare challenging the current condition of the ballclub????

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

No BLou...

fun is enjoying something for what it is. Baseball is a game. A beautiful game. A difficult game…but you already know this. You played it. It’s fun to play and fun to watch. Try expanding your character a little and embrace things for more than just the surface tension of “right and wrong” that you have in your head.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ladies and gentleman, I give you the author of "Cubbie Luvable Loser Philosophy for Dummies"

I read it again and I still can’t believe it.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, you have to be miserable when your team is doing poorly

Don’t you realize this, this isn’t just a game, this is personal. You must be an asshole when the Cubs are losing, you can’t be positive and say, “this is just a game,” you need to make everyone around you miserable to compensate for the fact you are a miserable person yourself.

God, don’t you know anything?

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know, I actually made BLou take a two-day timeout.

I’m guessing you all noticed. I agreed to let him back after today’s game. Of course, if they had won, he’d be nowhere to be seen.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 13, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

What two days

did he miss? He was in the game threads Tues. and Wed. night baiting people and calling names as usual.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 13, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't see him in Wednesday's

Of course, I wasn’t in all the threads

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Badger is right

I seem to remember reading comments wondering why BLou hadn’t shown.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 14, 2009 6:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Badger is correct.

I gave him a two-day timeout.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 14, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

This speaks to another problem

No disrespect meant towards Sue, but this is a pretty good example of a problem that several posters have noticed and commented on.

Some people react negatively to BLou’s posts for no other reason than they are from BLou.

I won’t say that he isn’t annoyingly negative and repetitive; he is. He also runs away when presented with facts that refute his arguments.

However, sometimes he is correct. The message gets lost because there is so much dislike for him that people think he’s on here posting rudely when he can’t log in.

He’s earned a lot of what he gets and I think he loves the reactions. I’m sure he really will love hearing that he was pissing people off when he wasn’t even on BCB. (A quick check of his posting history shows that he didn’t post on Wednesday, but he was during Tuesday’s game.)

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look, that's the risk you run

I’m sure there are posters who feel the same about me. Hell, mambochicken remembered our argument about 20 times better than I did.

I think I haunt his dreams.

That’s part of the chance you take when you adopt certain stances or personas.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 14, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not so much defending BLouMBDNIUBlueMIke

As I am suggesting that people take a step back before responding. The discussions can be a lot more interesting.

I’m guilty of it, too. (One recent example was I got pissed at Wreckard because I thought he’d incorrectly accused me of something when he hadn’t. After I responded, I realized that I was wrong and posted a reply. He was cool about it, but I was pissed at myself.)

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree with you.

BLou earned the animosity with his negativity, to be sure, but the negatives about the Cubs need to be said, along with the few positives out there.

As I always say, attack the message if you disagree, but never attack the messenger. It’s not worth it.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 14, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was wrong on

the days he was in the game threads. I checked and it was Monday and Tuesday.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 14, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

The rich and intelligent era....

what was your username back then? Because I forget the last few after your bannings for inappropriate attacking and slanderous remarks towards people here.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

SWL or Al

Want to start a pool on how long BLou can stay away?

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 13, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I bet he's gone now

but next time the Cubs lose, he’ll be back.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn, I was wrong

He’s still here

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

only until the next loss

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

On One Hand...

I’m glad you play the devil’s advocate on this board. Everything’s not rosy with the Cubs, and you point that out often. On the other hand, there doesn’t seem to be much positive coming from you, even when the Cubs are winning.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 13, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could give a crap if he's positive or negative

it’s just the pomposity. The holding himself up as the final word on anything he talks about is………revolting

by Illicat on Aug 13, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be plenty positive when there is something to be positive about

But in my opinion this team has been in a tailspin since the 2008 playoff series. I’m not going to say everything is peaches and cream when I have to stomach watching Soriano play left field last night 100 feet from my seats. Or when I have to see $48 million pissed away on a singles hitting Japanese import. Or a ballclub with the 3rd highest payroll in the game fielding a double play combo of Theriot, Fontenot/Baker. Or a catcher who was so committed to this organization that he felt it appropriate to put on 25 pounds of fat during the offseason. Or a starting pitcher in Zambrano who is baseball’s biggest assclown and with a sickly win total. Or Dempster being paid $52 million for ONE career year. Etc.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

So If I'm understanding you....

there is nothing positive about this team.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

What IS the positive my friend?????

Instead of the quipping one-liners why don’t you for once engage in some specificity. Tell me what in your mind is positive???

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Randy Wells

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point

But why o’ why will I find this positive fact less than satisfying when the 2009 Chicago Cubs finish the season with 79 to 83 wins and I’m watching Joe Buck announce the Cardinal playoff series???

So we should all be gloriously positive on the 2009 Cubs because Randy Wells came out of nowhere to be a good starting pitcher and Kosuke has a nice OPS?? Do we at least get to gather hands in a circle and sing kumbya at Wrigley once the season is put to a merciful end???

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

holy hell...

you ask for answers and then casually flip the answer giver the bird and wax eloquent about it.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be honest

I don’t think the Cubs are going to win this division (and the Wild Card is not coming from the central). Do I hold out hope that they do? Of course, but I’m not going to wallow in the fact they are doing poorly.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not satisfying. It's just a positive development.

Even if the season overall has been negative, there are some positive spots there. No one likes to lose, BLou. All these folks are saying is that a complete analysis takes both the positive and the negative into account. Your analysis of the negative was dead on. Can you not forget the positives, as few as they are?

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 13, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, and I hate kumbya

Here’s your “party” gift. LOL!

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

BLou

look dude, you are correct that there are not very many positives and a lot of frustration over this year. We have had craptacular years from every guy at one point and most are performing far below their norms.

Well, the upside is the 2010 version will show a marked improvement by guys just regressing to the mean. You are smart enough to understand that.

So people get rubbed the wrong way with the “fire and brimstone” speeches of everthing is wrong and Fire Donuts schtick. Take the emotion out of your posts and present factoids and it will be much better received.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

So if I understand your approach correctly...

…at the end of every season, there is only one team’s fanbase that is happy and 29 teams’ fanbases that are completely and utterly miserable, pissed off, and ready to give Mr. Rogers an atomic wedgie?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 13, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd pay a dollar to see that!

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fukudome and his .850 OPS

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK

Lee’s return to form
Randy Wells
Milton Bradly’s OBP
Jake Fox’s Bat (i know, i know he’ll turn back into a pumpkin any minute)
Harden’s health (knock on wood)
A stumbling first half of injuries and woeful underperfoming players and being within stiking distance of 1st place with plenty of time left.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

games.. not wins...

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

i guess i forgot to use my sarcasm font (this)

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the old saying goes...

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 13, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Give them time, they have the technology

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm going to the STL game tommorow....

I had planned on wearing a Cubbie shirt, but now I won’t bother I don’t feel like being told to F off every 10 min. especially when I have nothing to come back with. I guess the bright side is I’ll be @ Wrigley for the game this Sunday.

by TuscaniLove on Aug 13, 2009 6:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Loved the Kenney quote

(my emphasis)

“What are you going to do?” Kenney said. “We serve beer and people sit in the bleachers. If you think about how many years we’ve gone with no issues of any kind, including situations where we had our fans in some way animated about our own players, where they weren’t favorable towards them — so this is an isolated instance. [We’ll] handle it the right way, we think, with the police.”

Is he channeling Lou here? All he has to do is add “Look” in the beginning, gain about 50 pounds and not shave for a few days and the transformation will be complete. :-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 13, 2009 6:31 PM CDT reply actions  

In summary

One broad conclusion I have arrived at today. I guess I too am guilty of living in denial. Denial that is about the current condition of the once proud and relevant website known as Bleedcubbieblue.com.

— This is blog of the kool-aid drinkers and eternal optimists who are not altogether concerned whether the Cubs really win or lose. After all, “it is only a game.” What BCB really has become is a social network to hang out in and make anonymous cyber friends that shall last a lifetime.

You shall see very much less of me here on out. That statement should be good for at least 250 posts by the Luvable Loser Society and the kool-aid drinkers who find BCB the perfect cozy nest in which to hang out in.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:37 PM CDT reply actions  

The internets

Serious business.

People disagree with me here all the time. I even get called stupid. That’s life.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 13, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also want to add

Would you rather post at espn.com? Every Cubs game thread gets invaded by trolls with these basic messages:

“Cubs suck.”

“1908”

“Bartman”

“Cubs fans don’t know anything about baseball.”

I can’t even imagine what they posted when the idiot fan threw beer on Victorino. I take that back. I can. This place is ten times better than espn.com.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 13, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can top that

I’ve been called a shithead by the moderator !!! I guess it comes down to the widespread perception around here that I pee in the Cubbie kool-aid punch bowl and that is not to be tolerated. That and I refuse to participate in the kumbya singing practices.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

And?

You could always go look for pr0n if this place bothers you that much.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 13, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hope today is better than yesterday

And I mean that for you. Sorry to hear about your parents and of your computer crashing. But that later sort of stuff will happen when you log onto all those porn sites. Later my friend.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 13, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

BLou, fist class as always.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm glad to see BLou

take the high road out of here.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not at all

He needs us more than we need him.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

He....

completes me.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 13, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's like the ying to your yang

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

TWSS

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 13, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

he'll be back

if he loses this account…. what do you think the next one will be?

at least he’s not doing a gaius marius

by tootle on Aug 13, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

damn

I forgot about he/she

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

when in doubt

suck up

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have it saved

here you go.

My favorite thread of all time.

"Cub fans don’t give up!" -Ron Santo, 8/12/2009

by Allie on Aug 13, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

I have it bookmarked though… just when I need a laugh I scroll through it.

So silly.

"Cub fans don’t give up!" -Ron Santo, 8/12/2009

by Allie on Aug 13, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

is he into fisting?

intended pu in reply to his porn comment?

Very witty SWL! Nicely played.

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

But that later sort of stuff will happen when you log onto all those porn sites.

The voice of experience?

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

by Goodie1969 on Aug 13, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whats wrong with watching porn?

"It’s up to Miles to keep the Cubs alive"

by xene on Aug 13, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely nothing

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

"You shall see very much less of me here on out."

How many times have you said this? How many times have you been kicked off the board but begged to be allowed back? Honestly, answer this question. However, you won’t, cause that’s what you do.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 13, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

seriously, how self important can one person be?

I mean holy shit. Dial your pompous ass down a notch

by Illicat on Aug 14, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

out of the box

Wondering whether the beer thrower went to the game by himself and then left after the incident, or did he and his companions all leave.

Not assuming the beer thrower was intoxicated, but they might want to impose a 4-beer limit, keep checking ID’s and have better training for the security personnel. But what happens after the 4-beer limit could be an increase in the price of beer. The additional revenue would then be used to payoff Soriano’s contract! Not sure how long it would take to payoff and that has to be considered in setting the price increase. There could be an opportunity here to kill two birds with one stone.

by AboutTheCubs on Aug 13, 2009 6:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Bright side of this season so far:

I’m spending a LOT more time outside playing with the dog. She got annoyed by my swearing during this series so we spent the time usually spent following the game playing ball outside instead.

I think Ginger will be sad when the season’s over and I’m less annoyed! :-P

"Cub fans don’t give up!" -Ron Santo, 8/12/2009

by Allie on Aug 13, 2009 6:47 PM CDT reply actions  

I taught my dog Bond

to turn the DP at 2nd. However, he is having difficulty switch hitting. Any suggestions?

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aaron Miles

“how to” instructional video?

by socalbob on Aug 13, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

That has the same value

as a Michael Vick tape on “Raising dogs for fun and profit”.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 13, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

songs on my playlist.... dedicated to BLou... (find your happy place dude)

Dreams… VH
Top of the World… VH
Best of Both Worlds… VH
Right Now… VH
Ramblin’ Man… ABB
Don’t Fear the Reaper… BOC
Simple Man… LS
I Never Dreamed… LS
It’s a Long Way to the Top… AC/DC
Don’t Stop Believin’… Journey
Suicide is Painless… (MASH Theme) Johnny Mandel
Comfortably Numb… PF
Wonderful Tonight… EC

by tootle on Aug 13, 2009 7:19 PM CDT reply actions  

On Aaron Miles...

For our Southern Illinois and Mizzou residents who saw a number of Cards games last year, how did LaRussa use Miles?

I am just curious because the Cards organization would not tolerate the suckage that this player has displayed during his Cubs season.

Was he purely a utility spot starter guy? Did he PH much?

I just do not get it.

Help a brother out here…

by The E-Man on Aug 13, 2009 8:16 PM CDT reply actions  

He started a lot

Last year they really did not have a SS or a 2nd basemen that was worth a shit so he got a lot of playing time at those positions. Towards the end of the season when Dunkiel were both hurt, he played some outfield as well.

For whatever reason, TLR gets a lot out of his players.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Aug 13, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

He started

81 games…of those 81 games he finished 71.

53 games he game into the game as a pinch hitter or as part of a double switch.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Aug 13, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

He started frequently

and was used as a pinch hitter often. Over at VEB there was a lot of consternation about how often La Russa used Miles. He had no business being used at SS or 3B and Tony would play him there. He’d use him instead of Kennedy at 2nd when Kennedy was playing circles around him defensively (which isn’t hard to do, btw.) But Miles had a good BA and was scrappy! and came up w/ some big hits for the team. Tony hated seeing him leave, but over at VEB, we were extremely happy.

If you look at his numbers for last year and this, they’re not even remotely similar. This year, his Ks are up and his BBs are down. His infield fly balls are up by more than 10%. He was a respectable hitter last year, if overused b/c of Tony’s love for all his “grit”. This year, he’s just awful.

by chuckb on Aug 13, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

wow

he was IBB this year? now thats odd

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 13, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Simple

This. Season. Is. Over….and has been over for some time.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Aug 13, 2009 8:20 PM CDT reply actions  

BLou; the legend continues...

Not only do I find your posts entertaining (even when I don’t necessarily agree with them), but the full fledged conflagration they always start on this board are ten times more entertaining than most of what’s showing at the local multiplex.

You sir, have a positive genius for stirring the pot.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 13, 2009 9:45 PM CDT reply actions  

"After you buy four, you're done. "

Oh, please. You would think that someone who lives in Chicago would know that Prohibition doesn’t work.

by salparadise23 on Aug 13, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Speakeasies would crop up all over the stadium.

“Pssst. I know a guy who knows a guy who can get you a beer. Knock three times on the 3rd stall in the mens’ room behind section 511. And bring cash.”

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Really, it's sort of surprising

Year after year, you always piss and moan about the drunks in the bleachers(and I’m going back to the Usenet days here). Seriously, why don’t you get seats in the grandstand? The view is much better and the game is easier to follow. You’re starting to sound like the grumpy old man who wants those kids to stay off his lawn.

The bleachers are a beer garden. They have been for some time. Do you to the racetrack and complain about those degenerate gamblers as well?

by salparadise23 on Aug 13, 2009 10:38 PM CDT reply actions  

CaliCub's Musings and Wheezings

1) Put armed security in the front row of the bleachers. No more incidents like last night, plus we could get rid of “Banks Blvd” (Joe Morgan, you’re a putz).

2) There’s four things you never discuss with friends and family: religion, politics, child rearing, and the right way to run a baseball franchise. WAY too divisive.

3) I have belonged to many Cubs message boards in my time, but one thing that makes BCB truly unique is the vigilant – dare I say militant – attitude of the optimists. Never seen anything like it before. Typically it’s the fatalists and naysayers that are ready to pounce at the drop of a hat.

4) Very hard for me to see the Cubs getting into the postseason at this rate, unless the other contenders have some serious meltdowns. And with the salaries and NTCs sprinkled throughout the roster, it may well be 2012 before the window of opportunity opens again for the Cubs.

5) Joe Morgan, you’re a putz.

by CaliCub on Aug 13, 2009 11:14 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

another dissappointing season

yeah…nuff said…….

but i will always bleed cubbie blue……

by SoN of a GuN on Aug 14, 2009 12:22 AM CDT reply actions  

Basically, this season is starting to sort of remind me of the 2008 Tigers' season...

Both the 08 Tigers and the 09 Cubs has high expectations and high payrolls entering the season. The Tigers were even the most popular pick to win the World Series that year IIRC. Both teams (acknowledging that there is still over a month to the 09 Cubs’ season) suffered from multiple stars going on the DL for a signficant period of time (Verlander, Cabrera for the Tigers; Ramirez, Lilly, Soto for the Cubs) and still not being “right” when they returned. And yes, both teams also suffered from their stars simply under-achieving even when not on the DL. In both cases, the team chemistry appeared “off” or non-existent, and both managers’ decisions regarding the bullpen and position players were questioned.

Now here comes the good news. First, despite the similarities the Tigers were below .500 for almost the entire 2008 campaign and were clearly out of the playoff hunt by mid-July, and in fact finished LAST in a weak AL Central. The Cubs, despite all of the problems this year, still sport an over-.500 record, are still (at least for now) comfortably in 2nd, and in fact still have a shot at winning the division.

Second – and this is important – this year’s Tigers have managed to turn things around with just a few tweaks, such that a flawed team is now in playoff position and could contend for the WS. (Okay, technically they have an almost identical record to the Cubs, but the point is that this represents a major improvement from 2008 and in fact reinforces Good News #1.) The only major personnel changes from last year’s team was getting a good starting pitcher in Edwin Jackson and a good fielding shortstop (but poor hitter) in Adam Everett. Both were important acquisitions but hardly the type of complete re-vamping that has been advocated by some posters here. Beyond that, their turnaround can be attributed to the fact that most of their players have stayed healthy this year, and simply put that last year’s underachieving players have regressed to the mean this year.

So the conclusion I draw from this is that yes, clearly this year’s version of the Cubs has some significant flaws, as BLou et. al. have posted. But that doesn’t necessarily prevent us from contending for a playoff spot this year, or failing that, coming back strong next year with a few minor tweaks (say, a decent 2nd baseman, a solid lead-off hitter, and/or a reliable set-up man.)

"TOOO much good stuff!"

by cdnsportnic on Aug 14, 2009 12:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Huh.

A “decent 2nd baseman” would help. Seems to me we had one.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 14, 2009 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

As Ronald Reagan used to say,

there you go again, Al. Put away the security blanket, will you?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 14, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree with Bruce, good work

A couple other things that helped the Tigers was 1) replacing IRod with the low-key but useful Gerald Laird, 2) putting Inge back at 3B to help the defense, and 3) a nice dose of young talent (Porcello, Clete Thomas, Ryan Perry).

The Cubs have enjoyed contributions from the farm this year, and hopefully will continue to in the near future (Vitters, Cashner, Castro). Although I’ve been critical of the general organizational philosophy, I’m still willing to give Tim Wilken a bit more time.

There’s no metrics handy at the moment, but going by what I see for myself I’d rate the Cubs’ defense as adequate. That said, they won 97 games with an adequate defense – so maybe the solution here is better hitting with RISP.

Good health, a better bullpen, and deeper depth would help too.

by CaliCub on Aug 14, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

One thing that the Tigers have learned ---

When there is a Miguel Cabrera-type of player available, you do whatever it takes to get him!

That is what the Cubs are missing. A truly elite offensive player. They are very hard to come by on the open market, as they are only rarely made available when they’re still in their prime. (and yes, adding a 1B like Cabrera would provide the smallest marginal increase, as one of our best offensive players currently plays 1B.)

But the Cubs need to recognize that if they intend to be a big-market annual contender, it’s a whole heck of a lot more useful to spend $20M on Miguel Cabrera or Carlos Beltran or Albert Pujols or Manny Ramirez, than it is to spend the same $20M on Kosuke Fukudome + Milton Bradley.

This all goes back to MacPhail refusing to allow the Cubs to sign Beltran. Hendry then overcompensated and went nuts signing Alfonso Soriano, who, for all of his talents, is a markedly worse ballplayer in literally every respect (and much older, too.)

Now, Hendry’s successor is going to have his hands tied for a while, to a large extent.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

An argument can also be made

that Hendry really and truly thought Soriano was a Pujols/Cabrera/Manny elite level player after his 2006 season, and (over)paid him accordingly. If so then Hendry needs a new pair of glasses.

by CaliCub on Aug 14, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure that is what happened.

It seems pretty obvious in retrospect that Hendry was going to sign the player he identified as the #1 free agent, and by any means necessary.

It’s just our rotten luck that the decision to do so was made after 2006, instead of after 2004 or 2005, in which case we could have put that cash toward Vlad Guerrero or Carlos Beltran.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bradley is still a pile of crap at any spot in the order

and Soriano is worse, watching him try and bunt today was comical.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 14, 2009 12:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Bradley is still a pile of crap at any spot in the order

the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY

by jesus christos on Aug 14, 2009 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

The sad thing is the number of underachieving players

Assuming that what I hear and read is correct, a whole series of players are performing up the their potential and/or past seasons. As much as, I hate to place the blame on the coaching staff and replace them – it always seems to me to be the easy way out – Lou and co. have to face up to the question why is this so. Why is the team physically and/or mentally unable to play as well as they should? I say this in full awareness that the injury situation has made things rather difficult for the Cubs this year. Nonetheless on would expect to see more effort, hustle and intelligent offence and defence, with the “replacement” players stepping in and taking more responsibility.

The season is not over yet, and I have not given up on this year’s team, but the clock is ticking, ever louder. The entire organization needs to get their act together and at least make the will to win visible and the effort to do so apparent. If they don’t make it to the playoffs but we have seen a real and honest effort, then I can excuse them. If they don’t and did even not look like a hungry team, then I’ll be very unhappy indeed.

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 14, 2009 6:44 AM CDT reply actions  

Correction...

…a whole series of players are not performing up the their potential and/or past seasons…

sorry

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 14, 2009 6:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe many of them are playing to their potential.

Fontenot is who he is. Bradley is not a regular OF. Lee is having a good year. Miles has always sucked. Soriano is older. He cannot run anymore, has never been a good OF and has always struck out a lot. And I doubt he’ll see many more fastballs the rest of his career. Fukudome improved from last year. So dd Theriot. Arguably, only Soto and Ramírez are playing belo their capabilities, mostly because of injuries. And Bradley could have played better at the beginning of the year. He’s now doing what’s expected of him.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 14, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Miles has always sucked ?"

Um he has a career average of .283 INCLUDING this year. He is by far the most underperforming player on the roster. At least
lets not re-write history and say he was a terrible player before this season.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

He has a career OPS+ of 74.

He has pretty much always sucked. Last year was the first time he was even “moderately below average.”

Obviously, he’s beyond “sucking” now – he’s the worst player in MLB.

But even if he’d performed up to his career norms, he had absolutely no place on the 25-man roster of a team that fancied itself a contender.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 14, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

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It Is Only...

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Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

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Managing Editor

Alyellontoppscard_small Al Yellon

Front Page Contributors

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Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

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Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima

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