Cubs Lose Again. Jim Hendry And Lou Piniella: This Is Your Fault
Many of us thought, at least, that the Cubs playing a bad San Diego Padres team this week could help them get back into the NL Central or wild card race.
Not so far, anyway; The Cubs lost 6-3 to the Padres, have not won in five tries in San Diego this season, and stayed six games behind the Cardinals, who lost to the Dodgers 7-3.
This recap isn't going to be much about last night's game, which was lost despite a pretty good outing from Ryan Dempster and Derrek Lee's 24th HR. Instead, I'm going to say "J'accuse" at team management, because it's necessary. We have been over the many failures of this team on this site numerous times, but I thought it would be instructive to go over all of them in one place, right here, and to point fingers -- yes, I want to point fingers -- at the two men most responsible for this debacle: Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella.
The Cubs lost their 2008 postseason series in a sweep to the Dodgers and looked bad doing it. In so doing, LA used not a single lefthanded pitcher. Thus, manager Lou Piniella declared (perhaps not in these exact words, but the message was clear): "We're not lefthanded enough."
Thus armed with a mission from his field manager, Jim Hendry set out to make the team more lefthanded, and to make other adjustments.
He set his eyes on a lefthanded hitting, power-hitting, run-producer for the middle of the lineup, since his previous year's acquisition to do just that (Kosuke Fukudome) had failed at the task. In order to acquire one, it would be necessary to clear off some contract space, because there would not be an unlimited 2009 budget. Therefore, a useful fifth starter (Jason Marquis) and a valuable hitter (Mark DeRosa) were traded and Milton Bradley was acquired. This created holes in the rotation and offense, and Bradley was paid far more than a couple of the alternatives (Raul Ibanez and Bobby Abreu) would have commanded had Hendry waited a while. Had he done so, he might have been able to sign Abreu and keep DeRosa. Though Bradley is a useful player, he has not done what Piniella and Hendry expected, and that has left holes in the offense most of the year until Lou finally figured out that Bradley could contribute batting second.
It was further decided that last year's closer, Kerry Wood, should go get more money from another team (his "reward") instead of offering him arbitration to stay, and another closer, Kevin Gregg, was acquired by trade. We all know how that worked out. While Wood has not had a good year in Cleveland, it is impossible to know how Wood, whose family lives here and who has a strong emotional connection to the Cubs, would have done in another year on the North Side. He has remained healthy -- in fact, his only injury last year was not related to his elbow trouble -- and certainly would have been a better choice than Gregg, who, although he did have a couple of decent months, has been pretty bad.
The trade of DeRosa led to the signing of Aaron Miles, who we were told would replace DeRo as a versatile bench player. He has been nothing short of awful. For those who will call me a "DeRomantic", I point out simply this: he has had a good year with Cleveland and St. Louis, and would have been a useful fill-in while Aramis Ramirez was out.
Further, there is the issue of team leadership. This is an unmeasurable factor that drives statistically-oriented people nuts; however, I have absolutely no doubt that it exists and it does matter. DeRosa and Wood were team leaders and DeRo's positive clubhouse presence was noted by several Cardinals within days of his acquisition. Without those two, this team has no leadership. In that sense, I compare it to the 2004 team, which lost its 2003 leaders -- Damian Miller and Eric Karros -- for somewhat similar reasons. Miller was dumped, despite the fact that the pitching staff loved him, for Michael Barrett because Hendry thought a catcher should hit better than Miller, who had a bad offensive season in '03. About the only off-season move that truly worked was letting Henry Blanco walk and naming Koyie Hill backup catcher. With Geovany Soto not hitting and injured (and how you let a guy like that show up as out of shape as he was is beyond me), can you imagine where the Cubs would be if Blanco had been his backup this year? Hill caught 26 games in a row and the Cubs went 16-10, despite Hill hitting only .194 in those games.
Hendry and Piniella, of course, are not responsible for the large number of injuries that have hit this team -- but Hendry, at least, IS responsible for not putting together a roster that could take injury depletion better. There is no doubt that standing pat on a playoff team is not wise -- the Cubs did it in 1999 with their '98 wild card team and failed miserably. However, I maintain my position that Hendry took a 97-win team that simply went cold for three bad days at the worst possible time and blew it up for the wrong reason.
Then there's the matter of Lou looking like a lost little boy most of the time this year. He's nearly fallen asleep at the wheel a couple of times -- last week's failure to have John Grabow warming up with the three best LH hitters in the NL due up and Carlos Marmol walking the world was inexcusable. (And now he wants to make Marmol the closer? I shake my head in dismay.) Is it because Lou's embarrassed that he asked for this kind of team and it's failing? Or is he just past his managerial prime and wants to go home?
The strange thing is, despite all of this, this flawed, injured team still has time to make up a six-game division (or five-game wild card) deficit. There are still good and talented players on this Cubs team who are playing below their potential. They need to start winning the games they ought to, against bad teams like the Padres. Start tonight, please. I haven't given up yet, so don't you either. Go Cubs.
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Comments
How
can we lose 5 in a row to the Padres? Great effort against a AAAA team. Cesar Carrillo throws a quality start against us? What else can go wrong?
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 19, 2009 8:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Carrillo's ERA coming in was 30.86
Only one game of course, but I was listening to the pregame on XM and the San Diego play-by-play guy said “we wont bother mentioning his ERA” when going over the starters. oh well.
Lets Play Two Today
by RTGrules on Aug 19, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Repeating what I said almost 10 days ago
…when people were looking at the ‘bad’ Padres team — it was playing well. Almost as well when they were on their 10 game winning streak. I said — another possible ambush is ahead. The AAA call-ups gave the team an infusion of energy. Gonzalez was white-hot.
This is exactly as I predicted. You all were looking at the Dodgers. No matter if the Padres are in last or first, the Cubs cannot win here. The Dodgers have had a bad second half. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cubs take 3 out of 4 there, FYI.
Anybody who is surprised about this did not look at what the Padres were doing prior to this series.
I warned everybody.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 19, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be really strange.
I had hoped for a 4-3 trip. It would be weird to do it by winning only 1 in SD and 3 in LA.
Let’s hope that happens, and the Padres stay hot while they are playing the Cardinals.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not 10 days ago, the 14th...
Last line of Al’s post : Go Padres.
Referring to the last line of Al’s post
Be careful for what you ask for. The Padres are playing well, A-Gon is a hot as hell. The usual ambush may be waiting at Petco, depending on what happens this weekend. The sight of Cubs fans brings out the best/worst in Padres fans.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 14, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 19, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don't be expecting a victory tonight.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 19, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're the '09 Cubs.
Why would we expect that?
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Aug 19, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
Gonzalez did hit the HR last night that put them ahead, but other than that hasn’t done much of anything else in the series, so he has cooled off since you wrote that little tidbit 15 days ago.
by JFCubFan on Aug 19, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cooled off at Petco, naturally.
He was NL player of the week prior to the beginning of the Cubs series. He must leave SD to really put up those big numbers. LH bats die at Petco. 1 more year. He’d do OK at Wrigley.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 19, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are absolutely right
Checked his stats on baseball-reference: 22 HRs away, 11 at Petco.
He’d do OK at Wrigley.
Are you suggesting he replace our current 1B’er? Another fanpost can be started on this topic alone for the BCB masses to pontificate upon adnauseam.
by JFCubFan on Aug 19, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adrian
It sure feels like the Padres will ponder dealing Adrian in the next couple of years … but as for 2010, I don’t think we should ponder it. Come 2011, depending on how some bats develop, we can ponder it then. But let Lee play out his contract – he’s definitely earned it, and it allows us to see how our youngsters develop. Maybe Rebel Ridling will show improved contact ability to go along with his good glove work and his raw power. Maybe Jovan Rosa puts it together. Maybe Josh Vitters doesn’t stick at 3rd.
(I am aware that you aren’t suggesting to make a move, just felt like commenting on it)
by toonsterwu on Aug 19, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Padres
had lost four games in row going into the Cubs series. They might have played well against the Mets and Reds, but the bottom line is the Cubs needs to beat temas like the Padres to have any hope of making the playoffs.
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 19, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said Al,
I really hope both are gone when Ricketts takes over the team!
by cubdreamer on Aug 19, 2009 8:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't "Given Up"...
I am realistically looking at the situation that is the 2009 Cubs, and don’t really see it happening this year.
Too many “things have to go right” in order to win, and this team has had much of that this year.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 19, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Should have said...
“hasn’t had much of that this year.”
Sorry for the typo.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 19, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a pessimist...but...
This is not a good team. They don’t deserve to be in the playoffs and unfortunately they won’t be. I hope I’m wrong, but sometimes you just have to be real.
by bergs55 on Aug 19, 2009 8:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem is Redundancy in the Roster
I wouldn’t say it’s not a good team.. I think the problem is redundancy on the roster.
DL in the NL – Soriano. Bradley. Hoff. Fox
Good but not Specialist Lefty – Grabow. Gorz. Marshall.
Underperforming and average 2B – Baker. Font. Miles. Freel. Blanco.
Last year the diversity of the team made it so the team put on the field in the 1st inning played completely different than the guys in the 7th. You’d swap Fuku with Reed, DeRo with Font, Marshall with Eyre etc. There’s a distinct difference between how they play and it would screw up the other side. But this year so many players are exactly alike in both “style” and “role” that it doesn’t matter who gets put in a game.
by CrankyShoulder on Aug 19, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say 50% Hendry/Lou and 50% Players
Injuries aside… There’s no way Hendry/Lou can be blamed for severe under-performances by Soriano, Soto, Fontenot and Marmol.
Had they (or a 2 or 3 of them) performed up to their potential, the Cubs would be in the thick of this NL Central race.
I haz comedy show on Fridays. Come out and support a fellow Cubs fan? If you do, I'll see what I can do about Aaron Miles: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 19, 2009 8:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe they can't be blamed for the underperforming,
but you can certainly blame Lou for not taking action earlier. At the very least, Lou steadfastly refused to move Soriano from the leadoff spot, when everyone with half an IQ point could see he was killing the offense with his lack of anything remotely resembling production
by Illicat on Aug 19, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on Soriano in the lead-off spot.
I haz comedy show on Fridays. Come out and support a fellow Cubs fan? If you do, I'll see what I can do about Aaron Miles: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 19, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano and Soto, yes
You can’t blame management for those two being awful. Although the coaching staff should’ve done a better job of getting Soto into shape, and keeping him that way. I also agree that Marmol’s collapse isn’t entirely managements’ fault. But they also should have done a better job of not overusing him.
But handing the 2B to a guy who is totally unproven as a MLB regular was simply moronic. I trusted, and still do, Fontenot to crush right handed fireballers. That’s about it. Getting more left handed was a good idea, but a good RH bat is better than a poor LH bat.
by WittyUserName on Aug 19, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al...
I know you are optomistic and what now, but i must say i am proud of you. This is the first time you stepped away from being a Cubs fan (hoping that things will be ok), and said hey there are too many failures with this team. You hit the nail on the head.
I disagree about Blanco though, he was a huge team leader in that clubhouse, he helped all the young guys and he was definitely a go to guy for info. With that said, Hill has done a great job.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 8:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know Blanco did all those things...
… but I wonder where the team would be right now without Koyie Hill.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt...
I agree, we would be some where near the bottom, not in the middle.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you seriously think Koyie Hill has somehow kept this team in contention? He's barely average.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 19, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone have the teams record with k hill catching on hand
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
29-19 in games Hill started.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those wins must be because of Ryan Theriot and Lou.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet.
The team went 16-10 with him starting. Maybe the pitching staff was handled well during that time.
I guess you don’t believe in any factors other than those that can be measured on a stat sheet. Sad.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did this team win 97 games last season without Koyie Hill starting?
It’s sad that you think a catcher who is not even good enough to be an everyday starter has somehow been a major factor in keeping this team above .500. There are many factors that go into player performance and talent is the biggest one.
Why do you feel the need to belittle anyone that understands that statistics represent how a player has performed? What you fail to comprehend is that stats are the outcome of all the factors that go into performance. That is what is truly sad.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 19, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you fail to comprehend that there are other factors beyond statistics.
Truly, indeed, a sad life you must lead.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would be curious
to see this sentence diagramed:
Truly, indeed, a sad life you must lead.
by galloway0023 on Aug 19, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The team went 16-10 with him starting.

by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's one of my favorite charts.
Evah.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And both nonsense.
But I’m sure you are both smugly proud of yourself.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do understand what they're getting at...
don’t you?
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That someone is making fun....
of the biggest fraud perpetrated on man-kind along side y2k.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 20, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, the Cubs should blow up the team and build around Koyie Hill
since he has such a big role in how the team performs. The Cubs are glad to have him, otherwise the pitchers would have been pitching to no one, forcing every ball to go to the backstop
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
some people are in a pissy mood today
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not all of us have your legendary patience...
nor your ability to turn the other cheek.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah well,
Making claims that the Cubs went 16-10 while soto was down due to the Might Prescence of replacement level catcher Koyie Hill is enough to get my dander up. That’s just completely ridiculous
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because the catcher position never has an effect on a pitching staff.
are you really this obtuse?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you just trolling the blog at this point?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you calling into question my comment?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually...
I think he’s questioning all your comments.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think it was a serious question
It’s like getting a haircut on the day of a job interview, landing the job, and crediting it to the haircut instead of your vast body of work that made you qualified for the job to begin with
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Never underestimate the intangibles that a good haircut brings.
People get haircuts, they aren’t robots.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 19, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It IS the kind of intangible that doesn't appear on my resume spreadsheet
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
youre right
im an idiot
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This type of conjecture:
I guess you don’t believe in any factors other than those that can be measured on a stat sheet. Sad.
is absolutely absurd. It’s not that people don’t believe in those factors… it’s that you misunderstand and abuse the lack of quantification they have.
Sure, team chemistry exists and has an effect on the game. “Clutch” probably does, as well. But so does luck and random variance, and I think you too often rely on the processes that cannot be quantified to explain the things that can be explained by simple variance about the mean… or to defend positions that cannot be defended by rational means. For an example of this, just take a look at your “logic” on Kerry Wood in the main post.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So let's see.
What I said was:
it is impossible to know how Wood, whose family lives here and who has a strong emotional connection to the Cubs, would have done in another year on the North Side.
And you’re saying that’s not true? You’re saying that Kerry Wood, playing for the Cubs, would have a 4.71 ERA and 15 saves in 45 games, exactly what he’s done in Cleveland?
You know as well as I do that there are other factors, including the team around him and external factors that are impossible to quantify.
If you don’t believe the last part of that sentence is true, I think you live a truly sad life, failing to understand possible emotional effects on anyone’s job performance.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the problem, right there.
Here’s your argument, in 4 steps:
1.) Make a vague statement, such as “Wood may have done better here,” that you have absolutely no evidence for.
2.) In the place of solid evidence, use logic that leans on something unquantifiable, such as team chemistry.
2.) When someone points out that your recommendation is based on something unquantifiable, attack them for dismissing anything that cannot be quantified
Don’t you see how your logic runs in circles here?
It’s not that I think things that cannot be quantified are not important… it’s that the things we cannot quantify are just that – unquantifiable. It does not mean they do not exist. However, it does mean that when you’re making decisions based on those things the uncertainty is huge. I have no idea if Wood would have been better in Chicago, and — here’s the important part — neither do you. He may have been better. He also may have been just as bad as he’s been in Cleveland. And that uncertainty does not mean it would have been a good idea to keep him.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
counting double fail
3 steps, numbered wrong.
See? That’s why quantifiable things are nice. You know when someone screwed up.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you’re saying that’s not true?
What you said is true, but that doesn’t mean it would have been a good idea to bring Wood back.
Here’s an example of how your logic is faulty:
It’s impossible to know how good of a water polo player I would have been if I had taken steroids. Therefore, if I had taken then maybe I would have been a scholarship-caliber player.
It’s difficult to refute that argument because of the qualifications I put in there. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good argument. Same thing with your post on Wood.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait wait wait
The team went 16-10 with him starting. Maybe the pitching staff was handled well during that time.
I guess you don’t believe in any factors other than those that can be measured on a stat sheet. Sad.
So you’re using a statistic to prove that statistics obviously can’t measure everything in the game of baseball.

by Wreckard on Aug 19, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I said.
All I said is that maybe the pitching staff was handled well. Can you quantify that, compared to Geovany Soto? I’m not doing the math, but maybe you’d like to.
I believe there was a positive effect to Hill starting, that perhaps can’t be measured. Or is there another reason why the Cubs are 29-19 with Hill as the starting catcher and 31-38 with Soto? Coincidence? Chance? I doubt it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way...
this sort of thing can be quantified, or at least we can place an upper limit on its effects. All it takes is a little searching on google to find this stuff. And after reading it I can tell you with 99.99% certainty, that your conjecture that the stuff you claim cannot be measured is not responsible for the Cubs’ record with Hill in the game.
by shawndgoldman on Aug 19, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
quick comment
I’m not trying to get in the middle of this thread. It’s gotten pretty ridiculous, but I thought it would be important to point something out.
Al, if I’m understanding you correctly, you are essentially saying that, for one reason or another, what it is, Koyie Hill is better for the pitching staff than Geovany Soto? Essentially, that the pitcher’s are performing better. The problem is, even with an older, basic statistic such as CERA (catcher’s era, the earned run average of pitchers pitching when the catcher in question is playing), the pitching staff’s ERA has been better with Geovany Soto (3.96) vs. Koyie Hill (4.44). That statistic seems to correlate a lot with your argument. Sure, wins and losses isn’t exactly ERA, but the primary component you are drawing into question is the P-C dynamic, as we certainly can’t draw relationships with other variables.
(I would add, for the other side,
a) I’m only using CERA as a reference point to Al’s argument
b) Certainly, ERA has little meaning. I wonder if there is a CFIP stat that is easily found.
c) I also recognize James and uh … the BP guy’s work on CERA noting it’s flaws).
Now, one quick comment about statistics in general. All statistics basically have some sort of meaning, as it comes from our daily life. The question is how we read the statistics. I am quick to use the easily attainable statistics these days, as it’s easier to find, but there is a part of me that thinks there is a bit of over-analysis at times. Problem is, there really isn’t a better option at hand right now. Bill James has noted in recent years that there needs to be a better balance between traditional scouting and sabrmetrics. Is it possible he’s tooting the company line, being a company man now? Perhaps, but he had to be open-minded to accept that sort of job.
by toonsterwu on Aug 19, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...okay...
I believe there was a positive effect to Hill starting, that perhaps can’t be measured.
If he’s making his pitchers pitch better… wouldn’t that be quantifiable?
Or is he making them better in a way that doesn’t actually influence their statistics, but makes them win…. intangibly? Or something?
by Wreckard on Aug 19, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The myths of the Bradley signing are frustrating to me
Raul ibanez signed a 3 year 31.5 million dollar deal. After a hot start he’s cooled off considerably the past two months. You think over 3 years he’s better at baseball than Bradley?
Abreu was signed at the last minute, if the cubs waited that long this place would have melted down. Are both driving in runs better than Bradley? Yes, but that’s not what Milton is. Is it his fault Jim hendry didn’t know that?
I’d bet after three years of Milton Bradley getting on base at a disgustinly good rate most cubs fans will be happy that 40 year old Raul ibanez isn’t wasting away in rightfield trying to catch a baseball.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Aug 19, 2009 8:18 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Didnt...
Ibanez get hurt?
And why was Milton brought to the Cubs?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Ibanez got hurt
But Al said Bradley was paid far more than Ibanez, which just isn’t true. Three of the Big Four (Bradley, Ibanez, Dunn) all got paid roughly the same amount – $10M/yr – with Dunn landing only a 2 yr contracdt. Abreu was the anomaly here at only $5M for 1 yr. Still don’t know how that happened but it did.
And I presume Milton was brought here to be a LH slugger presence in the middle of the order. Slugger does not always equate to hitting home runs so I’d say Milton has failed in that regard. Yes OBP has been great and I do not foresee a slump like he went through at beginning of year to happen again. But I was expecting him to pretty much pepper the ivy with line drive doubles A LOT. And that didn’t happen this year. Next year, it might.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In any case...
…. there is no doubt that better production could have been had for the SAME money, if not less.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not less.
As long as the Cubs were in the market, the bottom was not going to drop out as it did for Abreu. And I’ll still contend that Bradley was the only player defensively capable enough out of that free agent class to work in an OF with Soriano in LF and a RF in CF.
There was really no good option out there. What hamstrung us was Lou’s demolition of Felix Pie by trying to remake his swing at the ML level – had they left him down on the farm, he could have had enough trade value to help us get a better player via trade.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 19, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but....
Bradley became one of those “Hendry guys,” who started to get mentioned at every trade deadline and in every offseason. That’s why I think Teahen will get his big payday in Chicago in the future. It’s always just a matter of time before Hendry will bend logic and salary cap backward to put those “Hendry guys” in a Cubs’ uniform. It was unavoidable after that lunch meeting with Bradley, even if the other guys suddenly decided they preferred the Cubs and offered to take a little less money or less years (Dunn, etc.) – Hendry just liked the cut of the guy’s jib, and he could justify the signing (LH hitter!). It was a done deal, just had to clear the salary for him.
But I am unapologetically in the “time for a new GM” camp, so I am a little biased. Too many bad contracts, too many times caught bidding against ourselves for players (did he really think he had to outbid KC for Jones? Really?).
I like Lou’s fire and straight talk, but he seems to lack the ability to tell a veteran they’re going to have to take a new assignment – at the very least he waits until too much damage has been done to finally have the change. Loyalty is one thing, as is being a “player’s manager;” but at some point you gotta have the gumption to “demote” someone from their preferred job based on performance. In baseball, you can’t wait until Spetember to do this…..
I’ll actually go so far as to say I’d like to see both of them (Hendry, Lou) thanked for their services, but dismissed. I can’t take another year of entitled position philosophy from Lou, and I can’t take any more bad contracts and semi-annual bullpen reboots for Hendry.
This is Chicago, the Cubs, and a HUGE market. We have to do better than this. We have the most expensive last-place offense I’ve ever seen, and more than an handful of recent castoffs are seeing great success elsewhere in favor of guys Hendry just likes “because.”
Let’s reboot for 2010, and I don’t mean just the bullpen.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 19, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of Hendry's...
…biggest faults is he falls in love with certain players and he loses objectivity. That can be death for a GM, and I believe we have seen this surface for years.
One thing I admire about Kenny Williams is he respects his players, but he also stays very objective about their capabilities and is never afraid to trade someone if it means making the TEAM better. You always have to keep what is best for the team first, but you also have to be able recognize what is best for the team at the same time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it is Hendrys fault.
Goodness he is a GM, he knew of Bradley’s track record, the injuries, the melt downs and inconsistent play. He fell in love with Bradley, had the blinders on and focused on him, period. It freaking baffles the mind.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Aug 19, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing
We haven’t had a meltdown or an injury since what, early June? And since the All-Star break, he’s been one of the more consistent on-base guys (not a slugger, but definitely not a bust either)
Bradley, behavior and injury wise, has been, all things considered, pretty good.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty good hitting singles.
Not driving runs in, which is not his thing but irinically it’s what brought him to ther Cubs. That’s why it’s hendry’s fault, not bradley, for not realizing what Bradley could and couldn’t bring to the team.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 19, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, yeah, Bradley's "meltdowns" have all but disappeared...
…and his play has been relatively consistent for some time now. Of course, he still hasn’t hit for much power.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's worth a shot.
Somebody get me an empty Evian bottle…
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind the Bradley signing
He may be somewhat overpaid but he’s fairly productive. The problem was signing him to be a power bat when it seems he’s more of an OBP type of guy.
by Mapmaker on Aug 19, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not productive at all and especially not against any good righthanded pitching
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are going to make patently redic claims like that...
… would you please at least attempt to back it up with some sort of evidence?
Show me how he hasn’t been productive. Seriously.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think he's been productive in any way besides his OBP I'd like to see it
He’s done nothing against good pitching, drives in no runs, routinely gets platooned, can’t hit from the left side, and has no speed, other than those things, he’s done great!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And as i said below...
… the same could be said, and to a greater extent, for a majority of this Cubs team this season. Hence the situation we are in today.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES!!
He is, was, and always will be better that worthless malcontent Mitlon Bradley!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, worthless
A minor league call up like Fox could produce what he has for the MLB minimum.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milton's 102 OPS+ begs to differ...barely.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox's OPS+ is 121
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now check their plate appearances.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The obession
of Milton Bradley’s OPS is borderline comical. I guess this is the only stat that must be used in the discussion.
Bottom “freaking” line he will struggle to knock in 50 runs, score 70 runs and 15 homeruns, all that for 10 million dollars, great great ballplayer, But his OPS is 800, big freaking deal.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Aug 19, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the only stat...
…but it’s generally regarded as the quickest and dirtiest way to get at a player’s true offensive value. And, uh, actually an .800 OPS player is a big freaking deal because that would be, in layman’s terms, a “good” player. And such players generally help their teams win baseball games. That said, Milton Bradley’s OPS is not .800, it’s .778.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Evaluation-
The pathetic performance of Alfonso Soriano, however, cannot be discounted. His lack of energy and hustle are the main reasons I have lost much interest in this team, this year. Last night was a perfect example- he fails to run out a ground ball hard, and then allows a key run to score by playing poor/ lazy defense once again. When Hendry signed Soriano following 06, it was necessary to show fans the Cubs would make a big move, following the passes of the previous years. What the Cubs do w/ Soriano now, is beyond me. I would love to see what this team could do in the remaining games, if management would sit, or shut him down, and give his at bats to Fox, Fuld, and Hoff. Their appears to be zero leadership on this club from Hendry, to Lou, to anyone on the squad.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Aug 19, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou and Hendry...
Wanted this team, this team is not good – of course they are not going to show leadership. They took a good team and made it bad.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could we please give up the notion that Micah Hoffpauir is a major league hitter?
You could somewhat make the argument for sitting Soriano in this prolonged slump for guys like Fuld (for his defense, and “energy” I suppose) or Fox (for his power, although his gawd-awful defense was on display in left field Monday night).
But Hoffpauir, and his .702 OPS? Really? There isn’t another white guy we could give it to?
by GoBackToSchaumburg on Aug 19, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy with the "white" stuff
I agree with that “Hoff” is really an average player, but to put labels and get racist about it is uncalled for.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Aug 19, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fairly certain
that the white guy comment was mocking the person GBTS was responding to. And given that Hoff is one of many average or below average white players (see, e.g., Theriot and Fontenot) that get far more love than their numbers deserve, I think the mocking was entirely appropriate.
by Holtzmaniac on Aug 19, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know Micah is in Iowa, right?
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aw hell
I gave up on ‘em, but I’ll still watch ‘em. If they make the playoffs, it’ll just be a disaster again.
by Floyd10 on Aug 19, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
+1
rec’d.
Exactly how I feel.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 19, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll watch em too
Always do. I’d feel like I was a traitor if I stopped, then started again when they won. Too much guilt from Mom I guess.
+1
by ASpecialGuestAppearance on Aug 19, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the cardinals pull a mets and completely collapse and the cubs take the division
i wont be heartbroken if they get swept again
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What this leads to, Al.............
…………in my opinion, is the dismissal of Hendry and Piniella. It’s time to blow up not only the team, but the entire organization, and this must be the mission of the new owners.
Hendry could make himself useful by placing Soriano, Zambrano, Dempster, Fukudome and Bradley on the waiver wire. See what happens. A salary dump is in order, so even if a trade can’t be worked, unload these guys and start fresh.
Further, go ahead and dangle Lee and Ramirez on waivers. Again, there might be takers and the future of the team could be improved. After all, these guys are not getting any younger.
By the way, anyone who has not turned the page on the 2009 Chicago Cubs needs to get religion. And quickly.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying Hendry should dangle all those guys on the waiver wire...
…even though common sense dictates that no one is going to pick up those contracts much less trade for them. And then Hendry and Lou should be summarily fired shortly thereafter. When exactly should all this begin?
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And further...
… “blowing it all up” means we probably start over as a team as bad as the Nationals, and be that way for several years. Is that what the naysayers want?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm willing to try.
Use the farm, Al, along with the remaining pieces. Use free agency to fill the holes in a practical fashion. The 2010 crop will be lean in relative terms, but I’m sick of the spending that leads us to the same rotten conclusion.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no doubt...
… that the organization needs to be built up in many areas. Add to it. Get more scouts.. Build a better farm system. But that doesn’t mean you have to blow it up.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People who say this team should be "blown up"
have no idea what they’re talking about.
This isn’t Minnesota or Kansas City. There’s no need ever to blow up a team in this size of a market.
Plus, this team isn’t as bad as it’s been playing. And on top of that, with whom are you going to replace these players?
The Cubs’ fan base never would stand for 3-4 years of rebuilding. Nor should it have to.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor Pittsburgh!
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
♫Dubuque, Dubuque♪
♪Dadadadadada, Dubuque♫
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Haven’t heard that in years.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't using free agency to fill holes what got us into this mess in the first place?
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
YES and trading away all the minor league talent
by KyCubsFan on Aug 19, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell of an outing by Ricky Nolasco last night!
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes me miss............
………..Juan Pierre.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"ALL of the minor league talent"?
You mean guys like Fox, Hoff, etc., for whom the white-boy peanut gallery is clamoring?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"in practical fashion"
There was nothing practical about Soriano. Same for Bradley. And Dempster.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meet Alex Rios.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exception that proves the rule.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it's so damned troublesome.........
………..to place a guy on waivers. Such the effort.
It would simply suck if Jim had to do his job.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we know for sure that he didn't place anyone on waivers?
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost everyone gets put on waivers.
The Rios claim is an outlier. I would bet something like that doesn’t happen again.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He probably placed nearly everyone on waivers
It’s SOP.
You do it right after the deadline. People clear or they don’t – but you don’t wait until before the deadline.
If you do it all at once, it doesn’t send a negative message to players.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like you're a little confused about the facts here, tville.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Al and Shanghai's posts directly above this one.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listening to Dibble and others on XM yesterday.........
……….I’m not so sure the waiver issue can be taken for granted.
Yes, it is a normal course of action, but only the Cubs know for certain if these players have been placed on the wire.
And with all due respect to Al and Badger, their opinion is as valid as mine.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense taken
However, a few minutes of surfing should lend credence to the claim.
I’d take anything Dibble says with a grain of salt – which he would promptly throw at me.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, it's a free country. Believe what you want.
I’m just pointing out that an opinion like that is not likely to be widely accepted.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then don't say I'm "confused about the facts".
Seems my opinion is more in line with the MLB hosts on XM. This group of paid professional might have a greater insight than say, bloggers.
Again, no slander meant for the BCB community, but……….
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, no offense taken
But I’m not making this up. I have formed my opinion from reading different sources.
I have also stepped back and thought about it – which is more likely? That all players are put on waivers right away, so that possible deals can be worked out later, or teams wait until September 1 is near, and are less likely to get players through?
Also, wouldn’t only putting a few players on waivers send a stronger signal that a trade was possible, thus increasing the likelihood of a claim being made?
I also don’t think the MLB hosts on XM are guaranteed experts.
Finally, no slander meant to you, but by extrapolating your logic, don’t you think Jim Hendry knows more about being a GM than you?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim's being paid to do that job..........
……….and I’m not. Guess he knows better.
As for the XM crew, former GMs and current alike are interviewed all the time. It is likely most players have been placed on waivers, but there is sufficient evidence to the contrary (again, based on the comments of these folks).
At the close of “The Show” on XM 175 yesterday, the Soriano case was specifically discussed. It’s conjecture on everyone’s part, but if Hendry has not placed these guys on waivers, then he should (which was my initial post).
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The entire team was already waived.
That’s SOP, as has been mentioned before. Did you really expect someone to claim our expensive players? The Rios case is unique.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rios is unique............
…………because there wasn’t even a lame swap of players involved.
The Larry Walker case didn’t involve as many seasons, but money was clearly at stake. That went down as a trade, officially, because the Cards sent a few bums back to the Rockies. There are likely other cases more in line with the Walker deal than the Rios situation, but it all ends in moving $$$ off the payroll.
IF the aforementioned Cubs’ players have been waived with no results, so be it, but IF they haven’t, they should be.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They already have.
That’s a matter of routine.
Do you really think any other team would take those contracts?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the same question...........
………..J.P. Ricciardi was asking himself earlier this month. No one bit on Wells, but he moved Rios.
It can’t be known until it is explored, and if the Cubs have waived the roster, at least due diligence was served. It’s unfortunate Kenny Williams had already made up his mind on Rios.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, maybe "facts" was the wrong word.
But charging Jim Hendry with gross negligence, which is essentially what you’re doing, based on what some satellite radio guys said puts your opinion in a pretty dubious light.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
something like that may not happen again for 10 seasons.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, it was 11 years ago that the Randy Myers waiver claim went down.
So yeah, there’s about a 10-year statute on these types of waiver claims.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or 10 minutes.
It is not common, but can be done.
Don’t recall what Larry Walker was owed by the Rockies in 2004 (believe they were on the hook for at least $12 mil in 2005), but that so-called trade was all about money. The players sent by the Cards to the Rocks were meaningless.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that was a deal and
IIRC the Rox put up some coin to the Birds in that deal.
Rios was: “OK ChiSox, you can have him”. Jays saved ~$60M but got nothing in return.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, put Soriano and Bradley on waivers
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh..again...this has probably already been done.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't you just hear the other 29 GM's laughing?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every GM in the AL would laugh at Hendry for putting Bradley on waivers
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 19, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not out of the question
but the team sale will have to be 100% complete first.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barf
You must be pining for those glorious Cub teams of the early 1990’s.
by MikeIowa on Aug 19, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least you knew they would be disappointing.
These recent teams are filled with hope and grandeur only to disappoint.
In the end, losing is losing. Not winning it all is not winning it all. I’m willing to chart a new course to reach the finish line.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonna disagree with you there
I’d rather have hope and a playoff appearance than the grinding drudgery of unremitting suck.
by MikeIowa on Aug 19, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand, but............
………..I’m sick of the gut wrenching BS. These last two playoff appearances, coupled with this season’s tremendously disappointing performance, has me yearning for the sound of popping beer cups in a semi-empty Wrigley Field.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think winning is easy?
Assuming someday in the not-so-distant future, the Cubs do win it all, I’d lay good money that it’s not gonna be a wire-to-wire cakewalk. There’ll be plenty of gut-wrenching BS to go around along the way. I suggest you get prepared now, otherwise, I foresee this conversation in your future…
Col. Jessep: You want a championship?
tville: I think I’m entitled.
Col. Jessep: You want a championship?
tville: I want the title!
Col. Jessep: You can’t handle the abuse!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Change "Colonel Jessep" to............
…………“Cubs Ownership” and the story is complete!!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got that right, BH
Did all Cubs fans get spoiled by the way the regular season went last year? You would think the last thing Cubs fans would be is spoiled, but apparently there’s a first time for everything.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably more anxious than spoiled
I think had October gone the Cubs’ way, there wouldn’t be half as much angst if they were 10 games under as there is today.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might be right
about that. But once you’ve won one WS, what do you want to do more than anything else? Win another one.
Who knows, though? We all might be basking in the glow so much, we might not even realize a baseball season has been going on since April.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the cubs win the world series and never win another one in my lifetime
i really wont care. but thats just me
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I want them to win every year
But I do think a lot of the reactionary stuff would go away after one.
Only one way to find out . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the angst and hunger
will increase even more. If just coming close in 2003 turned this fan-base upside down can you imagine how psychotic it’d get after they win it all? It’d be a zoo around ChiTown just like the Bronx.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure it'd be EXACTLY like what happened in boston.
We’d all become “we were there when they sucked!” snobs.
Everyone else would become Cubs fans.
And then… inevitable backlash.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it'll be awesome
… b/c it happened to us.
by Allie on Aug 19, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's wait until the end of the year to talk about blowing anything up
I haz comedy show on Fridays. Come out and support a fellow Cubs fan? If you do, I'll see what I can do about Aaron Miles: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 19, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The calendar may not say the season is over.............
……….but the results clearly speak to such a conclusion.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments like this...
… prove that you don’t truly understand the nature of the team you cheer for. This Cubs are a big market, big spending team with a payroll of $135,050,000, third in the MLB. And that is well under million short of the #2 team, the Mets, meaning we more or less tie for the second biggest spending team in baseball at more than $10,000,000 higher than the Red Sox. Obviously nobody touches the #1 Yankees.
What do those teams have in common? They do not ‘blow it up’. They do not ‘rebuild’. $120,000,000 plus teams adjust to their failures. The adjustments worked poorly this season, it seems. They worked well the two before.
But to think that either side of this team – the on field side or the off field business side – would accept several years of minor league players and being a laughingstock is just plain crazy. This is a big market team committed to contending every year, much like their high spending counterparts in Boston, New York and LA.
Imagine the fan uproar if we went from fielding a team of all-stars (former, granted) to a team of journeymen and minor league palyers. It ain’t happening main.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The only way it's blown up
is if the new owner says so.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And ditching former all-stars...
… beloved (D-Lee) or otherwise (Soriano) for a team of unknowns and a few seasons of guaranteed suckitude wouldn’t be a great way to introduce oneself to the Chicago Cubs fanbase.
Like i said… it just ain’t happening.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just that
how do you blow up a team with SEVERAL long term contracts?
Unless you swallow several million dollars on each player… how does this work out?
by Allie on Aug 19, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't.
This suggestion is asinine at best. You want Sori gone? Fine, but you’ll either have to take on another equally bad contract, or you’ll have to pay a huge chunk of his salary elsewhere.
Either way, not productive.
$40, $50, $60 million dollar teams rebuild. Sometimes with success, i suppose. $135 million dollar teams aren’t in the position to operate like that, due to both the position they are in with the players they have, and the fans expectation that they not be crappy for the extended period of time it takes to rebuild.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so asinine..........
……….as exhibited further down in this post.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess who'll win if the new owner says "shed payroll"?
It won’t be us. I’m all for keeping D-Lee but the Cubs have to consider some big changes.
Regardless, if Ricketts comes in and says, “lower the payroll to $100M-110M” guess what’ll happen.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not rebuilding.
That’s cutting payroll. Very different.
And also a very real possibility i suppose, although it wouldn’t be a popular way for a new owner to greet a fanbase.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yabbut as a new owner, if he doesn't do it now, when is he going to do it?
sure it wouldn’t be popular, but assuming Ricketts has (or will have) some kind of long-term strategy, and part of that strategy involves taking actions real similar to blowing it up and/or cutting payroll, it’s probably best to do it right at the beginning.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would tend to agree
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point...
…but even if the players the Cubs have on the field next year only amount to 100-110 mil, I would almost guarantee they would for forking over at least 20 mil per annum for long term deals that had to shed through trades.
If the Cubs fall short of the playoffs this year, I don’t think it would be wise to try and make a run at it again with the same mix of players. That would mean needing to shed some of these big contracts and that will be very expensive indeed.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano = allstar?
Only by the silly ASG vote-early-vote-often-Chicago-style system.
It may not happen but don’t think for one minute it won’t be attempted. Just because a couple thousand of us typing away on our computers don’t hear about player movement doesn’t mean its not discussed.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First things first.
If you think the team on the field is the sole reason why fans flock to Wrigley, then you truly don’t understand the nature of the team you cheer for.
The Cubs would draw +2.5 million at Wrigley regardless of the players on the field, and could probably do so for several years. They ultimately would have to put a better product out to maintain the draw, but taking 2 years out to rebuild is not going to punish ownership’s pocket book.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you forgotten September, 2006?
Times have changed at Clark and Addison. A crappy team WILL translate to reduced attendance.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
…I figure the Cubs have built up about 2 years of good will where they would draw 3 mil per season with non-playoff contenders. Beyond that, you would see attendence erode and they would be down to 30K per game vs 40K if the team didn’t start to win.
I would not be surprised if the Blackhawks did not become the hottest ticket in town for the next 3-4 years, and maybe beyond.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the same 2006 season...........
……….when they drew more than 3.1 MILLION FANS?
Taking two years to juggle a line up and gear towards a more effective team will not dramatically harm this team’s revenue stream.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, 3.1 MILLION FANS!
With a lot of EMPTY SEATS!
It’s pretty well documented that the TribCo noticed the no-shows at the end of the year. As they say, today’s “no-shows” become tomorrow’s “no buys”.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paid attendance........
……….still means income to the team, whether asses are in the seats or not.
Between existing season ticket holders and those who are ready and waiting to fill in for defectors, this team has a VERY long way to go before attendance becomes a concern. I’m looking at two years of rebuilding, and even if the gate dips, the money saved by reduction in salary will more than offset such damages.
Seriously, this ball club can withstand a two-year stretch of mediocrity.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Withstand, certainly
But that wasn’t your original point.
If they blew the whole thing up, had a crap 2010 with little hope for 2011, they would draw significantly fewer fans.
Season tickets would still sell, because people would want to have them for when times got better, but individual ticket sales would be down in 2011.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point has always been.............
……….this franchise can afford to take two years “out” and still not suffer financially.
Significantly fewer? Still believe +2.5 million would be achievable given Wrigley and its environs. If 1.5 mil are gathering in K.C. and Pittsburgh each and every year, somehow I think the Cubs would get a million more than these teams during a brief rebuilding program.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But I still disagree with the premise that the bulk of the fans are there for the beer garden.
That certainly was the case at one point.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I said that.
Not sure I even intimated that.
What I did say is that the team will draw in the short term even with a less-than-contending product on the field.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I so want to get involved in this discussion
but I don’t have time!
Professor, I think tville is right on this one. I do want to be on the record saying that Wrigley is still an overpriced beer garden, yet it’s the Cubs’ 10th player.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Aug 19, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, you won't see a half empty wrigley.
But that is a simplistic way to look at it. Fans in the seats does not equal revenue as a whole. They’ll be spending less while there, they’ll be watching less on TV, they’ll be less likely to attend spring training and cubs conventions, they’ll care less about getting the hot name on their back (because there will BE no hot name)…
A crappy product dwon’t sell as much. This is a fact.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late 2006 I did...
Tix on the order of 35,000-37,000 were sold. Some nights late in the season, there wasn’t enough people there to fill the UC for a Blackhawks game.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't say it, you're right
I inferred it from:
If you think the team on the field is the sole reason why fans flock to Wrigley, then you truly don’t understand the nature of the team you cheer for.
You are also correct that they could survive a couple of down years, and chilango is right about the home field advantage.
But, the revenue would go down significantly. The days of, “We lost, but Sammy hit a homer! And those halter tops!” are gone.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...welcome to the days of...
“We lost, but Milton walked twice! And that beer thrower!”
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose that's better than,
“And that tire fire!”
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood.
There are people who like to simply say to their friends “we were at Wrigley”. Beer guzzlers or not, the place attracts people. They don’t even have to be fans of baseball let alone the Cubs!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah.... Sammy homers... yes, those were the days.
oh, and halter tops, too.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct...
…the first phase of a drop off are always no shows. Even though they have the revenue from ticket sales, no shows reduce ballpark spending by quite a bit. The next step would be for fans to not buy tickets, if the team continues to struggle.
Most people will say there is a long waiting list for season tickets so this would never happen, don’t fool yourself. If the club struggled for an extended period, the demand would drop dramitcally and the waiting list would evaporate.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were many games late in 2006...
eight I witnessed personally that did not have 25,000 there with announced “attendance” in the mid to high 30’s.
MPH is right on…especially that last part!
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fans in the seats are NOT the only sorce of revenue.
Think people will be lining up for the bleachers, entering two hours early (and buying beer) to see BP with no name players?
Think no namers will sell the same jerseys numbers that Sori and Zambrano and DLee sell?
Think merch numbers in general keep up if the team isn’t in the think of a playoff hunt?
Think the cubs will get the same advertising revenue if the team is a boring waste of time to watch for a few seasons?
Yes, there is a mystique to Wrigley, and people will always go to some extent, although those who replied to you quicker than i did have dispelled that to some extent. But if you think revenue keeps up if the quality of product goes down, you are sorely mistaken.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you are missing the mark..........
……..in a number of areas.
Yes, merchandising will take a slight hit, but not EVERY name player will be gone. Since I am suggesting a two or three year window of time, I don’t believe a precipitous drop will occur. And plenty of fans buy Cubs merchandise without a player’s name because of cost so the impact should be minimal.
People will STILL come to the park, so advertising will continue to be sold. Don’t think the Cubs can get top dollar drawing 2.5 mil instead of 3.2? Don’t see this as a downward death spiral either.
However, I believe you are waaaay off base on the bleachers. This is a nearly foolproof situation. People will be out there morning, noon and night, even if the Bad News Bears were playing. I see it every time I’m there and it will take more than 2 or 3 bad seasons to eradicate the bleacher ballyhoo.
Again, we’re talking about a two year window of time where the team is overhauled, with some guys going and some staying. To pronounce this approach as the death of the Cubs and their revenue streams is, I believe, unrealistic.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, i belive you are missing the mark.
1.) If you believe this team can be “rebuilt” in two seasons with the contracts (and NTCs!) it has, you are mistaken. Truly clearing the books of these guys will take far longer than 2 years. Even IF we can some how get rid of Soriano, we’ll be paying him to play on other teams far past two years from now… AND we’d likely have to take a different crappy contract to ditch him.
2.) You are sorely mistaken if you believe people will continue to spend the same amount they are now on a future crappy product. Seriously, look around you. We’ve got people here, where some of the biggest Cubs fans congregate, already promising to devote their attention to the Bears. If this team bottoms out, goes years without a chance of making the playoffs, let alone contending for a World Series, interest WILL wane. And even if you personally didn’t see it while sitting in the bleachers on a Saturday afternoon, trust me… the cubs front office would notice.
Sorry man… i WISH we could do it your way. I’d gladly take two years sub-par play for the promise of a decade of core guys who are fundamentally sound and who’ll push this team to the top again. But that isn’t the Cubs we cheer for. They are firmly entrenched in the big market big spending world now, and escape is nearly impossible.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with a number of your points.
Two years is likely too short, but I believe it is enough to make an impact. Let’s look at those who’s contracts are up at the end of next season (2010):
$13M – DLee
$16M – ARam (his option to return for 2011)
$10M – Lilly
$ 3M – Miles
That’s more than $40 million that could be shed at the end of next year.
By the end of 2011, Fukudome ($13.5M) and Bradley ($12M) will also be off the books. Dempster ($14M) is gone in 2012 leaving only Zambrano and Soriano as the ugly contractual ducklings beyond.
Further, this fall’s crop of free agents is said to be light. Who knows? Maybe the Cubs can move one of these players sooner?
It would be tough to “turn it around” in two years, but I think they should try to make strides by shedding salary and inserting some farm talent.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What farm talent?
It was all traded away for the team we see on the field today, unfortunately.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To which players
are you referring that we traded away our farm talent to acquire. Ceda for Gregg. And who else?
Also we have,
Vitters
Cashner
Jacksons (Brett and Jay)
Castro
Lee
Carpenter
Searle
by ConcreteCoda on Aug 19, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In addition to Coda's comments..........
……….I’d say Theriot and Soto remain as low-cost players, although I’d prefer to see Theriot moved to 2B where his defense might not be such an issue.
Jake Fox seems to be worthwhile, and if Lee is gone, put Fox at 1B.
It doesn’t have to fall entirely to these young players. By shedding the payroll as outlined it frees the Cubs to pursue other free agents.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What farm talent would you wish we hadn't given up for DLee, Harden or Aramis?
Zambrano, Marmol, Soto, Wells and Theriot are all products of the farm system. Lilly, Dempster, Fukudome, Bradley and Soriano were all free agent pick-ups. What farm talent was traded away that could even be a decent back-up?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 19, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
Acapulco, tville and Concrete alike…
If you are claiming our farm system is in great shape and can step up to make up for the loss or release of a majority of our starting roster, you obviously haven’t been paying attention this season.
Sure, we could bring up guys to fill in the positions. But fill them well? If they could do that, we’d be winning games, and would have been in spite of the injuries so many here would like to blame this season on.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a reason you aren't answering the question? Please name names of who was unfortunately traded away?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 19, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
David Aardsma and Dontrelle Willis.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, there is a reason.
I’m not inclined to spend an hour researching something i can figure out in about two seconds via common sense.
What has been a major complaint on this site this season? That when a player goes down (like Rami) we don’t have anybody to adequately fill in and be productive. Then, we end up moving guys around (our infield is a prime example) or playing dudes like Miles, and all of the sudden we are a mediocre team 6 games out of the division come august.
So tell me who is down in the farm system just bursting with talent and ready to go on a MLB roster? Vitters is a year away at best. Beyond that, you’d have to ask the minor league guys like Josh.
Fact is, if the farm system was full of dudes ready to step up to play in the big leagues, we wouldn’t be where we are right now.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Research? If you need to research your own assertion maybe you shouldn't be making it.
You shouldn’t need to do a lot of research to back up your claims if they have merit.
The real fact is our farm system has accounted for DLee, Ramirez, Zambrano, Wells, Harden, Theriot, Soto, Marmol, Guzman. I didn’t even have to do any research. What team could lose it’s best hitter, in this case Aramis, and expect to replace his production with someone at AAA?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Aug 19, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't need research to make it.
I need 2 seconds of critical thinking.
You are on here hyping our farm system. Cool. I agree, some great guys have come out of there. Others will (and have) claim the farm system blows. Cool. Sort of irrelevant to the point i was making originally.
You can not expect to 1.) be able to easily ship off all these guys with big contracts and 2.) be able to easily replace them with players that will make the onfield product of the Chicago Cubs up to the expectations of most of their fans. If a product doesn’t meet expectation, people stop paying for it. That is a cycle big market teams do NOT embrace.
Big market teams spend. Small market teams rebuild.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not completely my contention, but............
………..Theriot (2B), Soto © and Fox (1B/OF) are position players with experience.
Experienced arms Marshall and Wells work in the rotation with Guzman and Marmol in relief.
Does that leave some holes? Of course. A number of those could be filled by the farm within the next two years.
And as these old salaries are shed, the ability to secure other free agents (hopefully better ones) will further cement the squad.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
And as these old salaries are shed, the ability to secure other free agents (hopefully better ones) will further cement the squad.
And how is that different than what has been going on for the last 5 years or so?
Look… there are multiple approaches to running a team. You can go all moneyball, you can make like the twins and pound fundamentals and hope it pans out, you can spend like the yankees, on and on and on.
The cubs have clearly shown themselves to be in the “spend like the yankees” group, which makes sense as they are a big market team making big money, and as the Yanks (and the Boston under their new ownership) have shown, you CAN buy championships with enough money.
I’ve always been of the opinion that what the cubs spend shouldn’t be a complaint. I’d much rather have a free spending team swinging for the fences then a situation like the Arizona Cardinals had for years, where the owner was so cheap that there was literally no chance to win.
Anyways, back to the original point that began this little discussion. Rebuilding isn’t how this organization (and i don’t just mean the players on the field) is built. Shedding the contracts is one thing… it’d take years and patience. Accounting for the fact that the fans won’t accept it is another. And beyond that, changing the organizational philosophy from “spend spend spend” to whatever it is that you propose (i can’t actually grasp what that is so well, other than you want the crappy / highly paid players gone, which we all agree on but isn’t quite as feasible and easy as many here seem to believe) won’t be easy.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I partially agree
Yes, the people that are spending money now would probably not continue to spend the same amount of money if Cubs entered into a 2-3 year rebuilding effort. However I think there is a decent backlog of people out there who don’t have the opportunity today to spend money on the Cubs but would gladly step in and replace those folks who decided to take their dollars elsewhere (Hawks, Bears).
Also, if we get rid of Soriano (and that’s a huge if), taking on a different crappy contract is not the way to do it. I think the better way to do it is include enough of his salary until another team bites. Put your non-Cub GM hat on and play along…
- Would you pay $18M/yr for Soriano? Of course not.
- How about $15M/yr? Puh-lease…
- Ok, $12M/yr? Throw in Vitters and I’d think about it.
- Leave Vitters out of it – how about $9M/yr? Hmm… let me get back to you on that…
Now I don’t know if $9M is the right number or not, but there surely is a number where other GMs would at least return Jimbo’s calls. Then you put what ever savings you do realize back into the team, either in the farm system or some mid-level FA to play left. Or you stick Fox out there. Sure defense will take a hit, but he’s a crowd favorite and plays the game right. He’s the kind of guy that will get your team through those 2-3 years of crappiness until the time is right to make the big push.
You’re right in that this isn’t how a big-market team does things. But we’ve spent our money foolishly these last few years and we’re going to have to do things differently if we want to quickly turn it around. Or we can just wait out the bad contracts or we can throw more money at the problem. Lots of approachs.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think you're a touch off base on this...
Wrigley is really only a major draw — regardless of situation — for about two months in the summertime. Kids on break, tourists on vacation, and a slowed down work situation allow a ton of extra folks to come out. Get a tan. Have some drinks. You’re right in that regard.
However, before and after that time, the Cubs compete for eyeballs and entertainment dollars with a ton of other venues and products in town. If they’re not competitive, people are not coming to the park in May; they just aren’t. If they’re not competitive, 40,000 drops to 32,000 in September. That’s a big problem.
Most of their operational costs are covered by tickets, but the big money is in concession (beer) and merchandise. And a crummy product makes for bad advance and season ticket sales, which is terrible for cash flow, and off-season acquisitions.
Bleacher bums will leave them when the weather cools. We’ve seen that as recently as the 2006 season.
by Damen Jackson on Aug 19, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's do some quick math.
If we accept the “slack” months being Apr/May/Sep with the other three being the peak; capacity set at 41,000 (although true capacity is higher); with 40 games played in each three month stretch, here’s a loose calculation:
Apr/May/Sep attendance running 75% of capacity = 30750/game; 1,230,000 total
Jun/Jul/Aug attendance running 90% of capacity = 36900/game; 1,476,000 total
That exceeds the 2.5 mil I’ve suggested as a threshold of pain for the two seasons needed for reconstruction.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And still ignores no shows, as well as revenue that takes place outside of wrigley...
… you think the cubs share of advertising revenue for TV stays the same if the team sucks? Really?
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't...
And the multiplier effect per ticket decreases, to boot.
I mean, I think you’re still too fixated on the ticket sale tville. That’s just not where the Cubs make their real coin.
by Damen Jackson on Aug 19, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a big part, i'll grant him that.
And it is probably more resistant to tanking during a bad season than about any other teams besides the Yankees and Red Sox…
But it isn’t everything. If Dome is replaced by No Name Guy X, merch revenue plummets. If the team is getting trounced and people file out of Wrigley in the 6th every other afternoon, revenue goes down. If its not worth tuning in to see the team, advertising revenue falls. If the rooftops can’t fill up every afternoon, the cubs don’t get their 13% or whatever it is, and revenue falls.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'M FULLY AWARE OF THAT, BUT............
…………PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE MY POSITION OF “SQUEEZING” THE TALENT ON THE FIELD FOR A MERE TWO (perhaps three) SEASONS.
For god sakes the franchise will not go broke if the Cubs cut back the talent level on the field in 2010/11/12.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see the Cubs...
taking a position that they’re capitulating on any season. It’s simply not a strategy that large market teams employ, for a variety of reasons already discussed.
by Damen Jackson on Aug 19, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And all I'm saying is............
……….they should.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
by tville on Aug 19, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you should send sam zell an angry letter about it
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may think this.
Doesn’t make it right.
We are more like NY and Boston than Tampa and KC. Sorry dude, it is what it is.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't make it wrong either.
They’re different approaches, that’s all. There’s not a right or a wrong way.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
But i’d venture to say you WON’T see a big market team go the rebuilding route.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That goes down and...
concessions go down. Revenue from the rooftops goes down.
As long as they can avoid the 2006-like collapse, they’ll be OK. After all, 2006 is what resulted in: ALFONZO SORIANO
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pardon me while I stand and applaud, Al
You hit about 12 nails on the head.
First, a question: I had to go to bed early last night and missed the end of the game. It was 4-3 when I turned off the TV. I saw the highlights this morning.
On the inside-the-park home run, it looked like Fukudome ran about six miles after the ball and no other Cub was in sight. Had Bradley already gone in to take the cutoff throw? If not, isn’t it his job to help backup on that play?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I saw it...
… where was Bradley?
Didn’t matter, since at least one run would have scored on the play regardless.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It matters a lot
if it is true that he wasn’t backing up as he was supposed to, regardless of the outcome of the game. As we discussed at Wrigley last week (thanks for the chat, I enjoyed it), a huge change in Lou is that he does not seem to hold players accountable for playing fundamental baseball as he did in the past.
At any rate, excellent writeup today as usual.
by paulucla on Aug 19, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen!
It matters one helluva lot when Bradley gets a free pass from hustling because people won’t take their kool aid glasses off long enough to ever hold a Cub player accountable. Bradley is worthless and provides the same amount of production as a minor league callup, Jake Fox.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really like Bradley...
But he can be a solid #2 hitter for this team, however, too bad that’s not exactly what we signed him for and needed this offseason.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not even a solid #2 because he's so bad batting lefthanded
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got his OPS from the left side up to .760...
…and that’s with a very impressive .393 OBP. Pretty sure no minor league callup is going to get on base at that rate.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But . . . but . . .
Jake Fox surely would do the same or better hitting left-handed, because he isn’t making $10M . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
♪♫ It's all about the Hamiltons, bay-bee!!! ♪♫
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JUST WATCHED IT AGAIN.....
No Bradley….Maybe another disconnect in the teams defense , If I am right wasn’t it Lou that flew to the west coast . ( To meet and had dinner with Bradley ) Bingo sign him up .
by cubs north on Aug 19, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He blew it
plain and simple.
Couple that with the fact Domer doesn’t break too well on contact makes for some scary situations.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It matters. It shows what's wring with many players in this team, including Bradley.
They play horribly! Lack of hustle and fundamentals.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 19, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome went to his right after the ball, i.e. towards left-center, and the ball kicked back across center towards right.
so yeah, the ball did travel a long way through no-man’s land, especially with center field being so big at Petco. But the ball was rolling for most of the time, and towards the end, it was rolling slower and slower… and still no Bradley in sight.
I hesitate to judge without the evidence of a wide screen angle, but common sense and extrapolation tells me that Bradley just stood there in the beginning. And I would have to guess he still wasn’t moving after the ball hit the wall. I don’t care how big Petco is, even I – had I started running at that point – would have gotten to the ball before Dome did.
Of course, I would have JJones’ed the throw back to the infield, but that’s beside the point…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I asked about Bradley going into shallow right to take the cutoff
But maybe someone who was there can answer where exactly he was.
Because if he didn’t run or run hard, that IS a problem, even if only one run scored on the play.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going on memory now...
…but I seem to recall that at the very end of the play, after Dome picked it up and whirled and threw, there was another Cub player coming into the picture from the right. Camera didn’t stay long enough to clearly see who it was, but I presume it was Bradley.
Of course, might have been Lee hustling over… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure it was Bradley.
Would have loved another camera angle to see if there was a good reason it took him so long to get there.
by redward on Aug 19, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key word "embarrassed"
The whole Cub team should be.
I agree fully Al, The signing of Milton has been beaten to the pulp, I never liked it and especially at the cost it cost the Cubs. I too am a DeRosa guy, it is beyond the life of me how people don’t see the value of him over Bradley/Miles and Fontenot combined.
I don’t know for fact, but it appeared from the outside that no real strong effort was made to sign Wood, they, Hendry assumed Woody wanted this or that, does anyone know if the Cubs actually make an offer to Wood?
I believe in clubhouse cohesiveness and leaders in the clubhouse but it appears this club is lacking both. Hendry has put together a mix match of players that really don’t perform together, the construction of this team is horrible.
I am in strong favor of letting Hendry and Lou go, this team needs a new fresh look, Because the players, Bradley, Soriano, Dempster, “Z,” and Dome, who have had poor to average years can’t be moved because of horrid contracts, except “Z”.
This team lacks heart, lacks a strong belly, somehow it needs to find it.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Aug 19, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Both sides
agreed that no offer was made to Woody. He was shown the door. The only debatable part is what Woody would ultimately have been willing to accept to stay (i.e., what kind of Cubbie discount he was willing to give the organization).
by paulucla on Aug 19, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may say they are
but I doubt it. Looks like they’re just collecting paychecks.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reality?
I agree with the points about DeRo and Wood being leaders, but I think we need to look at the reality of the situations here:
1) Wood isn’t just bad this year, he’s bad AND expensive AND required a 2-year deal with a vesting option to sign. Seriously, here’s his contract details from Cot’s:
2 years/$20.5M (2009-10), plus 2011 option
signed by Cleveland as a free agent 12/13/08
09:$10M, 10:$10.5M, 11:$11M club option
2011 option guaranteed with 55 GF in 2009 or 2010 (becomes a club option if it does not vest)
Now, I’m going to guess that Cleveland isn’t going to allow him to vest, as he’s short this year, but he’s 15-5 on save attempts with a 4.71 ERA. How warmly would we be thinking about him now if he was here with that failure rate and that contract? Seriously. Hendry letting him go was a smart move. I didn’t think so at the time, but in hindsight, I think he saw this situation clearly.
2) Yes, Miles stunk. I don’t think Hendry is getting enough credit for admitting that and picking up Baker, though. Baker is 6 years younger than DeRo, much cheaper, plays the same 2 key positions (2b/3b), and is probably just as effective as a hitter (it’s always a little dicey adjusting for players leaving Colorado, but he had decent career stats there). Add to that 2 things – DeRo hasn’t hit well for STL, media raves about how great that move was for them aside. And, if DeRo had been here, we’d never know what Jake Fox could do. Clearing playing time for Mike Fontenot certainly looked like a worthwhile goal last offseason. I know that most people thought he’d be at least fine against RHP, and possibly much better all-around. I have a hard time complaining about the GM making space for good, cheap players – as long as the money saved is used to address other needs.
3) Jason Marquis? Seriously. I realize he’s having an amazing year in Colorado, but I’m glad we got to discover Wells and Hart and find out what Marshall could do as a starter instead of paying him his hefty (obviously very reasonably in light of his 2009 though) salary.
4) The maligned Fukudome move seems to be paying off this year. Just like “Godzilla” in NY, he appears to have taken a full season to acclimate. He’s been one of the most devastating hitters in the league vs RHP this season.
Now, this braintrust has obviously not been perfect, but I think a lot more of the blame has to go to the players than you make it sound – Soto and Fontenot laid eggs, Soriano and Bradley both have long track records, and until the past month+, neither had done much of anything. I actually give Lou some credit for his dealings with Bradley, inasmuch as we haven’t heard “boo” from the guy for a while, and he’s been hitting.
by BobbyMac on Aug 19, 2009 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
While you may be
right about Woody, you may also be wrong. It’s just not fair to project his Cleveland numbers on to what they would have been if he stayed a Cub. It’s also pretty clear he would have accepted significantly less to stay with the Cubs.
by paulucla on Aug 19, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty clear to who?
You are making things up.
by Holtzmaniac on Aug 19, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he isn't.
He was never offered the chance for that. There were other factors, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just contradicted yourself
Holtzmaniac said paulucla is making things up by saying Wood would have taken less to stay a Cub . . . you said he wasn’t making things up, then refuted what paulucla said.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he is
and so are you.
Hendry came out and said the Cubs and Wood never discussed a one year deal, something Wood never refuted.
If Wood wanted a one year deal with the Cubs, he should have asked for it. But only an idiot would ask for a one year deal when they knew a multi-year deal is a possibility, especially when an extensive injury history is involved. And Kerry Wood does not appear to be an idiot.
Did the Cubs want Wood back? Probably not and whether they should have is a different topic. But the notion that Kerry Wood was going to stay here for a one-year deal when more years and more money were guaranteed elsewhere is a figment of some people’s imagination.
by Holtzmaniac on Aug 19, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're talking about two different things.
Had the Cubs and Wood discussed a one-year extension BEFORE Hendry told him to get himself more years elsewhere, a deal might have been made.
There were other factors involved. I have heard some things that, unfortunately, I cannot post here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aw, man....
Are these “off-the-field” kinds of factors? Or would even that be saying too much?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're not off-the-field factors.
That much, I can say.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't know...
… what kind of one-year deal Wood would have accepted to stay a Cub. Further, though he is having a bad year in Cleveland, we also do not know whether he would be having that same bad year in Chicago, where his family (and presumably, his baseball heart) is.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Wood is having a bad year because he's not a Cub
Then I woudn’t want him, anyway. Just like if Soto can’t suck it up without Blanco around, then he doesn’t have the intestinal fortitude needed.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I wondered about Geo going into the season
But now it’s more about the WBC affect, his weight issue and the pot incident.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
If these guys can’t make it without their “security blankets,” they’ll be useless for this team.
Acutally, it might help explain the bad performances we’ve seen in the postseason, at least as far as mental wherewithal is concerned.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wood's down year
likely has less to do with his feelings about not being a cub and more to do with changes in pitch selection, league difference, lower K:BB ratio and a rebound in his HR:FB ratio.
by ConcreteCoda on Aug 19, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect that's true
Except for league difference – it usually favors the pitcher when the batter hasn’t faced him before.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Respons...
1) He is on a bad team – his numbers are skewed, and he made his first move to the AL. You dont think he would have signed a 1 year deal with the Cubs for cheaper? He wanted to stay here but the Cubs didnt want him.
2) Jake Fox? Really, so you are happy with losing DeRo because we would not have found out about Jake Fox. What did we find out, he can sit on the bench when we need him? Really? Jeff Baker has been nice, but he is the poormans version of DeRo.
3) With our constant pitching injuries (I blame Rothschild) we would have found out about Wells and Hart at some point during the season.
4) Isnt it fair to assume Hendry and Lou gave up on Fukudome after last season? If they would have realized that only 1 japan player had a successful first season in the MLB, maybe we would have never gone out and gotten Bradley right?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baker is much younger than DeRo.
He may yet turn out to be a rich man’s version of Mark.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who doesn't hit for power...
And can’t play the corner OF positions and 1B like DeRosa?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Baker played some 1st base last Friday.
And he is driving the ball more of late.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say, I'm slowly coming around on Baker
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His last 8 games have been impressive, at least
if he can continue to work on getting the ball out of his glove quickly, I think he’ll be fine.
Now, I don’t expect him to hit .500 the rest of the way, but he’s looked much more comfortable at the plate recently.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baker deserves to play the rest of the year
and see what we have. I would like to see him play some 3rd and outfield. He may be the most versatile player we have but if he never plays anything but 2nd how will we know?
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Aug 19, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In his time with the Cubs
he’s played 1B, 2B, 3B. So I think they’re looking at him at some different spots.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew first for like 3 innings
but did not remember any 3rd base.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Aug 19, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's mainly been as a defensive change that he's moved from 2B
or entered the game at 1B or 3B, but it doesn’t appear that the Cubs are afraid to use him around the infield.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Jeff Baker couldn't play the 3 easiest defensive positions?
There’s a reason Adam Dunn keeps rotating among them
by GoBackToSchaumburg on Aug 19, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference...
Between playing them, and playing them well.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Since when does Baker not hit for power? In 333 PAs for the Rockies last season, he hit 22 doubles and 12 home runs. He currently has a .952 OPS with the Cubs. And in his major league career he’s played the following positions: 2B, 1B, 3B, RF, LF.
How ’bout getting your facts straight before you decide to start hating on a player, hm?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saying a player doesn't hit for power...
Is not “hating” on someone.
Baker in 2008: 12HR, 22 doubles .468SLG, .791OPS
DeRosa in 2008: 21HR, 30 doubles, .481SLB, .857OPS
Baker has 2HRs this year, DeRosa has 21. I can safely say DeRosa has a bit more power than Jeff Baker.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...look at their plate appearances.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a reason they have such a difference in plate appearances
DeRosa is a FAR better player than Baker, which is not"hating" on Baker- just a fact.
"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69
by tommy veryzer on Aug 19, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or because baker was out with a broken wrist for half of the year
hmmm…..
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or because DeRosa is older...
…and has had much more time and opportunity to prove himself one way or another. All I’m saying is give Baker a freakin’ chance.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
their slg % are nearly identical
according to your own stats
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Aug 19, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or at the worst, a RH version of last year's Fontenot
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume by "poor mans Dero"
You mean you have to play him way way less than Mark DeRosa to do the same things?
by GoBackToSchaumburg on Aug 19, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley was Edmonds replacement. If anything, I think it’s fair to think that Hendry/Lou realized that Fukudome probably could handle CF based on his excellent defense in RF in 2008, something I certainly never expected when he was signed.
by BobbyMac on Aug 19, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Baker appears to have been a good pickup.
Of course, I still would’ve preferred to have DeRo around for depth purposes earlier in the season alone, but Baker may turn out to be a decent “save” in that department.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a very good scramble, no doubt about it
Of course, Lou decided to rest him for TWO days — the rainout and the Monday game — to give Miles a shot…
When Jim does something right, Lou does something wrong. When they both do something right, the players don’t execute.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I didn't get Lou's decision to rest Baker either.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I agree with much of what Al wrote, but this fills in the gaps where he and I disagree. Well said.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Few things Al
On the gameboard signing. Could it be that a guy like Abreu came at a cheap price because guys like MB were signed sooner? I think so. Abreu would have cost the Cubs close to the same dollars as MB (per year basis at least).
Leadership. I’m glad you jumped on that. Everytime this topic is mentioned there’s some sabre-geek out there discounting it. The Cubs miss this badly.
IMO the BS surrounding the teams’ sale complicated things. I’m not saying a quicker sale would have opened the money floodgates but at least there would be a definitive answer.
I’m more PO’d at Hendry than at Lou. Lou’s made mistakes, many of them. Hendry’s utter lack of judging the market trumps it because the lack of a good roster affects Lou’s decisions every day.
Just like now: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/8FC79251720FE9018625761700107F0A?OpenDocument Smoltz is going to sign with the Cards. I’d really like to know how much Hendry tried here; any deep goat insight?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know whether the Cubs had any interest in Smoltz.
As I wrote yesterday, I wish they had. Interestingly, if DeRosa were still a Cub, maybe Smoltz would have signed here. DeRo was one of the players lobbying management hard to sign Smoltz — they were friends from their Braves days.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wainwright too
I think, though, that is has more to do with picking the winning horse than friendships. If we were the ones six games up, I’m pretty sure Smoltz would be more interested.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough decision for Smoltz
Sign with a team that is playing well, has the best player in baseball, and is one of the top teams in the NL.
or…
Sign with a sinking team with one of the most overrated and overpaid players in baseball, one that has had nothing but bad luck, and that is slowly sinking towards Pirate territory.
Tough decision. Can’t understand why he would go to the Cardinals. Hell, if he signed with the Cubs, his arm would probably just explode, taking out Jake Fox with shrapnel.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Aug 19, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially galling to me
is not showing up in shape.
We can directly trace Zambrano’s second injury to not following the training program. It is NOT unreasonable to think that if Soto had shown up in better shape, he wouldn’t have been injured.
The injuries to Lilly and Ramirez were game-related. The injury to Dempster pissed me off because it was so stupid, but he worked his ass off trying to get back in.
I just do not understand needing to have someone hold your hand and make you work out. I really hope Soto learned his lesson.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
The one thing, and only one thing, that gives me any hope or solace is the fact that these guys should have a fire lit under them after this season. I expect Soto to come back better, same with Fontenot. I don’t trust Zambrano to follow through on his promises. But the rest of these guys will be embarrassed to the point that they come into the season ready to go, rather than coasting.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Aug 19, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't heard anything
that makes me think Fontenot doesn’t give 100 percent.
His 100 percent just isn’t as good as we thought.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a mistake...
…to assume Fontenot could be an everyday player based on the part-time play he had before. We saw this with Matt Murton, Corey Patterson and others.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How was this a mistake?
I am not saying you are wrong, but what did you see that made you think he couldn’t be a full-time player? His statistics have always played out to a league average player, perhaps overmatched by some lefties, but nothing extraordinary. His .320 season was an outlier, but what did you see that caused you to think he would hit .220.
And what would be acceptable? Is .270 with a dozen homers acceptible for Fontenot.
Again, I am not calling you out, but I want to hear your full opinion on this.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Aug 19, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO...
…the Cubs needed to upgrade the SS or 2b position for sometime. Neither Theriot or Fontenot are stellar defenders (Theriot is really a 2nd baseman) and I don’t think Fontenot’s offensive abilities are strong enouph to offset another mediocre fielder up the middle (where you have to be strong).
I have nothing against the guy, and I think he plays harder than most guys on the team, I just saw signs of him being overmatched at times which let me to believe he would come back to earth big time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What makes you so sure Fontenot is a less than stellar defender?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My eyes...
…of course it is only my opinion and I could be wrong.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, because (and I know you probably don't want to read this)...
…UZR and RZR both rate him as above average at second base.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
♪Doctor, my eeeeeeeeeyes . . . .♫
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice job Al.
First and foremost I am a cubs fan and will watch and hope and dare to believe we are going to win.
Second, the injuries have taken a huge toll on this team and in reality may be the single downfall of this team, albeit with bad off season moves. As I said last week in a post, the young players on this team have done their job, from Wells to Hill to Blanco to mid season Jeff Baker.
Third, this team needed Soriano more this year than ever. I put much of the failure directly on him. It is flat out embarrassing to know he is on our roster for what, 5 more years? He has let us down and could have been the guy to have taken over in Aram’s absence, along with professional hitter DLee, to lead this team. He failed.
Last of all, the trades you described are right on. The loss of DeRo we all knew was bad from the start and now the failure of Gregg is something we have to endure. Hendry needs to be blamed just as he does for handing In Dusty We Trusty Baker a rotten lineup in ’06. We should be more consistent than this for $140 million.
I can’t put as much blame as others on Lou. I might be in a minority but as a high school coach of 33 years, all you can do is play what you got and if you ain’t got much, what do you do? Sure he made some blunders, but what hurts worse? Soriano or Pinella. At the end of the season Soriano let this team down the most.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Aug 19, 2009 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more.
While I remain positive that this flawed team can still get in – where absolutely anything can happen – it just grinds me that we can’t beat poor teams like the Padres. Would it kill guys like Bradley and Soriano to dive for a ball in the outfield? There were 2 plays last night in the early innings where just a touch more effort on their part would have gotten an out and saved at least a run.
I think you are spot on with Woody and DeRo. There are no stats to back up their leadership in the clubhouse but it’s no doubt a factor. You think the 2004 Red Sox would have won without some of those “idiots” in their clubhouse? I just don’t understand how you mess with a teams chemistry like Hendry did this past offseason. I’m not going to get too deep into the bro-mance with DeRo b/c it’s been beaten to death here but let me say this…you know the GIDP on a 3-1 count in Game 3 of ‘07 sat with him all offseason and into 2008 and what does he do in Game 1 of ’08? Hits a 2 run homer in his first AB. That’s a guy I want on my team.
Keepin’ the faith…barely…
by TeddyThunder on Aug 19, 2009 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Winning produces chemistry
Not the other way around.
And what did all that “great chemistry” get the Cubs in the postseason? Nothing.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely disagree
If you told me before the start of the season that:
Aramis Ramirez was going to miss 2 1/2 months with injury -
Geovany Soto was going to hit .220 and miss a month and a half -
The front four pitchers were going to miss time on the DL, two at the same time -
Mike Fontenot was going to be awarded the 2nd base position and hit .225 -
Alfonso Soriano was going to hit .243
The Bull Pen was going to accumulate 17 blown saves by mid August -
I’d have said this team should be 15 games below .500. We’ve had a lot of players hurt and a lot of players underperform their career averages. management can’t see that kind of stuff coming. It’s a miracle they’re over .500.
This debacle is on the players, 100%.
One day, the dream will come true.
by brianp88 on Aug 19, 2009 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
It's somewhere in the middle
Aramis Ramirez was going to miss 2 1/2 months with injury -
Who is the backup?
Mike Fontenot was going to be awarded the 2nd base position and hit .225 -
The first part of this sentence is just as much a problem as the second. And that part is on management.
The Bull Pen was going to accumulate 17 blown saves by mid August -
What was Gregg’s track record coming in?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alfonso Soriano
Let’s face it: Alfonso Soriano stinks. He’s lazy as hell in the outfield, and he is behind in the count 0-1 about 90% of the time. He routinely strikes out on the most ridiculously bad breaking balls. He’s too stupid to think about changing his approach. Right now, he’s the single most overpaid employee in the United States.
Soto can’t get it together, Fontenot is not a first-round caliber player, Milton Bradley (despite his high OBP) is extremely unclutch, and Kevin Gregg is Kyle Farnsworth, except that he doesn’t throw nearly as hard.
Z.Z. Zoot
by Zooty Zoot on Aug 19, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Third base. The bigger problem, IMHO, was that Fox was not allowed to try playing the position, despite ASKING for the chance. When he finally was given the chance, he performed adequately.
Re: Fontenot – I love these “I told you so” people who will fall all over themselves to say how they knew Fontenot couldn’t be an everyday player. He had a fine season last year and deserved the chance to play everyday. If you thought he was going to fail, yay for you and congratulations. Perhaps you should buy a lottery ticket.
Re: Gregg – 63 saves over two years was his track record. Yes, he had blown some saves, but Rivera and Papelbon weren’t available. What else could you have done. Please don’t say Wood.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Aug 19, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Gregg – 63 saves over two years was his track record. Yes, he had blown some saves, but Rivera and Papelbon weren’t available. What else could you have done. Please don’t say Wood.
he was also tied for the league leader in blown saves last in limited appearances as closer
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make this green
It’s all on the players and bad luck
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Management...
Created this disaster. They had no back-up plan for any kind of injuries and built such a shaky bullpen. And what about the lack of depth in the rotation, if Randy Wells didn’t come out of nowhere, we’d be even further in a hole.
They made Fontenot the starting 2nd basemen, they went into the year without a backup 3rd baseman, they went into the season without a decent bench or versatile bat off the bench. It’s on the players to perform, but this team was not built to realistically win a championship.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree that this team lacked depth going into the season - particularly at 3B.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After the Corey Koskie...
Experiment didn’t work out, they gave up on the idea of having a backup 3rd baseman.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they had one in Fox.
But they were too stubborn to try him at 3B until Ramirez was nearly back from his injury.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the bigger gaffes of the season, IMHO.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree.
Especially when the guy is begging to try it at Triple-A.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...and hitting .450 and slugging .750.
It was remarkable that it took so long to figure that out.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Daver said above
One of the bigger gaffes of the season, IMHO.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the discussions
on BCB at the time. The majority of people were certain that Fox was not capable of playing 3rd defensively. A scout had called him terrible. So it wasn’t just Lou who wasn’t willing to give Fox a chance and get his big bat in the lineup.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Aug 19, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that goes right back to the problem of player evaluation.
The Cubs, including Lou, did not evaluate Jake Fox properly. That is a problem and a problem that, unfortunately, has reared its ugly head far too often.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced yet that they're wrong.
You don’t really expect guys to break out lof the minors like Fox has at age 27, or learn 3b on the fly when he’s been awful everywhere else he’s played
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If given a long stretch of games...
…I do believe Fox’s defense would be exposed as well as his bat. Against big league pitching with advanced scouting reports, I would think Fox’s offensive productivity would suffer.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going to be a Gold-Glover at 3B by any stretch
But why, when he was crushing the ball at Triple-A and begging to play third base, would the Cubs not at least see what they had there?
That’s the part I find puzzling/troubling. If Mike Fontenot/Aaron Miles was a better 2B/3B combination than Fontenot/Fox, I could understand. But the Cubs, whether through stubbornness or ignorance, failed to use Fox as he could have been used for 2 months while Ramirez was out.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree...
…but let me add this; when you have a situation with a career minor leaguer like Fox, the manager and GM have to intially rely on the reports from the Cub’s minor league people. I am sure the report Lou got about Fox said the guy was a liability in the field, and since Lou has not seen the guy near as much as the minor league people, he has to go off at that – at least to start with.
Why Fox was not playing third at AAA is a very good question. The person that should have made that happen was Hendry, not Piniella. those folks in the minors report and work for Hendry, not Lou.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
And I’d place far more blame on Hendry/Fleita for not getting Fox time at 3B the minute Ramirez went down.
It would have been nice to have the 121 OPS+ in the lineup over Fontenot/Miles.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, where would this team be without the unexpected emergence of Wells
…and Fox? Fighting with the Reds for 4th place.
by JB 23 on Aug 19, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and thats where I lose it regarding the lack of an owner
I simply cannot believe DeRo gets dealt in essence for gameboard if we have an owner.
How awesome would it be to have that flexibility.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
I too completely disagree with Al on this one. brianp88 nails it. It just ain’t are year. We are close enough that, save the Ramirez injury, we would be right in it.
I am disgusted by those who blame this on Hendry, and I am particularly disgusted with those who call for Hendry’s dismissal. Seems you guys missed the fact that we’ve been in the playoffs three times this decade. Seems you guys missed the fact that the Cubs were a bottom tier team for most of the previous, oh, 50 years. Hendry is the best thing to happen to this team since Dallas Green. He deserves far more patience from this fanbase.
I just think it’s unbelievable that Al focuses on a couple of moves that he disagrees with and blames the whole season on that.
by MikeIowa on Aug 19, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Save the Ramirez injury, we would be right in it"...
So a GM building a team, that completely collapses after it loses one player, is not a failure? He left absolutely no back-up plan to account for an injury to Ramirez, given his history of injuries and DL stints.
Hendry did build teams that made the playoffs in ’07 and ’08, but he has also handcuffed us with ludicrous contracts and no-trade clauses left and right.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When did we collapse?!?
Last I checked we were a .500 team
by MikeIowa on Aug 19, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And being a .500 team...
Is not a failure for the 2009 Cubs? Going from 97-wins to this disaster is not a collapse? Being 6 games out of the division, possibly more after these 4 games in LA, is what exactly?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mediocrity
. . . which is what you get when a 97-win team gets slammed with injuries and underperformance of its stars.
by MikeIowa on Aug 19, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cardinals have had injuries...
The Dodgers have lost people, injuries are just an excuse when you fail to prepare for them. Going from a World Series contender to mediocrity is a collapse.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets have been slammed with injuries.
The Cubs have had one serious injury (Aramis) causing an extended absence, and the expected series of bumps and bruises which have caused SPs to miss a couple of starts.
Underperformance, sure.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And let me add . . .
. . . that I’m not saying the team has no holes, and I’m not saying every Hendry move has worked out brilliantly. But what team doesn’t have holes? Are we disgusted because he’s not a seer; that he cannot peer into the future and foretell injuries and performance declines? That he couldn’t patch every hole and have a quality backup for every position?
I just think that’s wildly unfair.
by MikeIowa on Aug 19, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had no quality backups...
At any position, except maybe for a good defensive backup in Koyie Hill.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the outfield was fairly well covered.
The infield, of course, is another matter entirely.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Given Soriano’s and Bradley’s injury histories, our only proven backup Major League OF was Reed Johnson. I can’t call Micah Hoffpauir playing everyday for an extended period of time covering the outfield depth.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going into the season...
…the Cubs had Soriano, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Joey Gathright and Milton Bradley on the 25-man. So we could say:
LF: Soriano/Reed Johnson
CF: Fukudome/Gathright
RF: Bradley/Fukudome
I know everyone hated Gathright, but he was a very good defensive outfielder. And though I didn’t want to see the Hoff anywhere but first base, he probably could’ve played left field serviceably enough if Soriano had gone down – just like Fox could right now. Left field is one position where you have some wiggle room with a defensively poor player.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about Gathright...
But if he had to play the OF for any extended period of time, we’d be doomed (more than we are now). He’s a late inning pinch-runner/defensive replacement only.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but that's true of almost any backup player.
That’s why they’re backups to begin with.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
But I’ll just say that we were in a better position as far as OF depth last year with Edmonds, Dome, and Soriano, and RJ coming off the bench and DeRosa able to play out there without a loss of productivity at the plate.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I haven't missed
Outbidding the Royals by millions to get “power hitter” Jacque Jones.
Signing Bradley to be a slugging RBI hitter, which he has never been.
Signing Aaron Miles, Neifi Perez and Glendon Rusch to two-year deals when the market for one year was questionable for each.
Carrying Perez, Enrique Wilson and Jose Macias at the same time.
Destroying Sosa in the media so they could trade him, effectively destroying his trade value.
Thanks to the reminder from N Oakley, signing Fukudome to be a “power hitter”.
Giving Samardzija $10M and a NTC, then promoting him rapidly despite Samardzija having done nothing to earn it.
Go ahead and be disgusted with me. I am disgusted with Hendry’s talent evaluation, fascination with “toolsy” players and short middle infielders, and penchant for spending like a drunken sailor.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed . . .
2003, 2007, and 2008 (which was the best Cub team since the 30’s.) So go ahead and cherry-pick the deals that didn’t work out and ignore the brilliant deals that built the most successful Cub’s run of our lifetime.
by MikeIowa on Aug 19, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I remember those years just fine
2003 was a decent team that got hotter than hell for 6 weeks. 2007 was an ok team; 89 wins is nice but not great.
2008 was the best team in a while. The response to 3 games was to overreact.
As far as most successful Cub run of my lifetime, the bar is set pretty low for that. Clearing it doesn’t mean I’ll accept failure.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also spent...
…money like a drunken sailor in 07 and 08 to get those teams. He had to to cover the myriad of mistakes and organizational flaws that have permeated over the years. As in many circumstances, extended spending sprees to build winners bite you in the ass, and that is what is happening right now, especially with Hendry’s poor roster selection.
In my mind, if Hendry and Rothschild survive the ownership change, I will have little to no faith the organization is going in the right direction for long term success, not just short pockets of success. I am hoping beyond hope that Ricketts sees this (or has people who see this) and makes his first move in changing the organizational leadership (GM specifically). Regarding the manager, that person will end up doing as well as the organization is strong above him, and I would trust the new GM to hire whoever they want.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said...
I agree you pinned the 2 guys i want gone – Hendry and Rothschild.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So wait.
The 2008 pitching staff did well under Rothschild. The 2009 staff hasn’t. Frankly, I think he makes no difference at all.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Frankly, I think he makes no difference at all"
Then get rid of him and save the money. Why employ folks who make “no difference”. I can be the pitching coach for a lot less money if nothing is expected from me.
by cubsnlinux on Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's get Smoke to opt...
…out of being a sports agent in SD, and Tony Gwynn out of his coaching/analyst job. There’s two of the best right there.
Rickey has spoken.
by LeSaboteur on Aug 19, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 year AL...
The constant injuries, the horrible miss-management of the bullpen. The fact that we can never seem to get a pitcher to go 7 innings. It is the same song and dance as it was under Dusty – what is the constant? Hmm the pitching coach.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And i have said it before...
What pitcher has gotten better as a Cub? I guess Dempster? I mean why was Scott Eyre so bad for us and he is been pretty decent for Philly?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wells?
Kevin Hart had a nice run at the end there, too. Gorzelanny hasn’t been horrible so far. I guess these all are relatively small samples, though.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So wait a minute...
Randy Wells and Kevin Hart have had 1 (ONE) good season….this is their platform for success, if Rothschild stay pitching coach, and they get better, then you are correct. But it is their first season with Rothschild. My contention is that not one pitcher has gotten better as the years have gone on.
I am holding hope for Guzman, but it is tempered by the Marmol success drop off.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 19, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Eyre had a bad two-three months
Out of his entire tenure with the Cubs. . . and never saw the mound again.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet some guys get to crap the bed without consequence
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point was in response to HIGGY
That Rothschild isn’t Voldemort.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
shh!
dont say his name!
the cubs lineup needs moar LIND and HALLIDAY
by jesus christos on Aug 19, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rothschild...
…is not a difference maker at pitching coach, and it is time for an upgrade.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry and Rothschild...
…have been the two consistant pieces through all the Cubs huge ups and downs over the past decade (longer for Hendry). Good baseball organizations should not incur the rollar coaster ride this organization has had, and if there was strength in the right areas, it would happen. Spending large amounts of money can patch for a short duration, but it won’t hide the blemishes forever. I think it is great the Cubs have been willing to spend big money the last several years, but you still have to pick the right pieces and not be spending out of desperation.
It still baffles me how Hendry got away from the formula that propelled the Cubs within 5 outs of the World Series in 03. Clearly, it was by mistake, but he actually got it right and it turned out to be a blessing his 5 tool guy (Patterson) went down mid-season and forced him to make moves. If Patterson would have stayed healthy, the scouting reports would have caught up with him (as they did in 04) and that club never would have made the post-season.
The last 10-15 years have taught us a few things; assuming you make the playoffs, the teams with the best record the last 30-40 games of the season are dangerous. Also, it is critical to have a balanced lineup that can produce runs in a variety of ways (power, contact, OBP and speed). The 03 Cubs of Aug and Sept had this, and it made them more difficult to apply any one scouting report to shut them down. The 07 and 08 Cubs were much more prone to being shut down with a one dimensional scouting report (and a pitcher who executes it) and that is exactly what happened.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 19, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget that it doesn't hurt
to have TWO dominant hard-throwing pitchers.
by Mapmaker on Aug 19, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"most successful run..."
Sadly, I think the 1984-1989 6 year period outranks this most recent run.
Two NLCS appearances in 6 years, with some putrid teams in between, definitely tops 1 NLCS appearance in 6 years and 2 NLDS o-fers, with some putrid teams in between.
At least in the 80’s run, our last-place team (1987) had Hawk winning the MVP, and they were competitive through labor day.
2006 was the most miserable team I’ve ever had to watch. At one point we had 10 second-basemen on the 25-man roster. Who was watching that squad?!
And at least in the 80’s, our NLCS teams were honorable, played the game the right way, and weren’t relying on their juiced-up players to save the day with 3-run shots.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree with that
There was no NLDS in 1984 and 1989, so to say they got to two NLCS but 2007 and 2008 didn’t is disingenuous.
Plus, they were competitive (if underacheiving and unlikeable) in 2004.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was tougher to make the playoffs in 1984 and 1989, too.
Without the division realignment, the 2007 Cubs would have been a 3rd place team. Of course, the 2008 Cubs would have lost in the NLCS to LA, instead of the NLDS. So I guess that evens out.
Bottom line – in the 80’s, the Cubs were within shouting distance of the pennant twice. In the ‘00s, they’ve been that close once.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
… had the divisions not been realigned, the Cubs would have wound up playing the Astros in the NLCS in 2008. Of the “old” NL West teams, Houston had the best record in 2008. (Two games better than the Dodgers.)
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Conversely
In the ’00’s, the Cubs won one postseason series. In the ’80’s, they won zero.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's certainly true.
I suppose they were pretty equivalent six-year runs.
The difference now being, that the Cubs have decided to take advantage of the inequities inherent in the system, and after this run, should be able to avoid the long fallow period they had in the 1990s.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spending Like A Drunken Sailor
I’d much rather have my team spend like a drunken sailor than not spend $ at all, like the Pirates of the world.
One day, the dream will come true.
by brianp88 on Aug 19, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Spending just for the sake of spending is stupid
How about using those dollars wisely?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you Shanghai
Spending money to just spend money is foolish. He spending has put the Cubs in the bind that they are in. Want to try to trade Dome, Bradley, Soriano, Dempster, Miles, not going to happen.
And I am tired of hearing the Ramirez excuse, sure he is excellent hitter, but freaking enough. Teams work through injuries, every team gets them.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Aug 19, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
The Cardinals lost their ace earlier, a shortstop, and two third basemen for an extended peroid of time.
Sure, losing Ramirez hurt. But that’s not been the only issue.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say this until I...
…am blue in the face, but trying to trade Dome is foolish. To suggest so, you would have to be out of your mind.
He may not be Ichiro (and may never be), but he is a highly solid player, a core player to build a devastating outfield. He plays ++defense, and has had a very productive second half. Keep this up in Year 3, and you’ll have a monster of an outfielder.
Rickey has spoken.
by LeSaboteur on Aug 19, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the Pirates
Our road out of this mess probably runs through Pittsburgh again. They just acquired a bunch of young players. Eventually, those players are going to hit arbitration (in 2-3 years, generally), and Pittsburgh will want to unload the good ones instead of paying them.
What I’m saying is, Andrew McCutchen would look pretty nice in pinstripes, along with Alderson and Clement. And all we’ll have to trade Pittsburgh are some more 20-year-old prospects! And if those work out, we can get them back three years later, too!
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what sucks more than the Cubs right now? MLB.TV
I’m getting up pretty early these days, so my plan for this week is to not even try to watch the games and do everything in my power to NOT learn the results of the game the next morning. I wanted to be able to come into work in the morning and watch the condensed game first thing. I was assured by an MLB rep on Twitter that condensed games are posted within 90 minutes of the game airing.
So it worked just fine yesterday (even though a co-worker spoiled the game for me when I walked into the office). But this morning there is NO condensed game posted and, when I tried to watch the entire WGN video broadcast, my media player froze up in the second inning and then, inexplicably, went back to the very beginning of the game.
And when I tried to re-start the media player, it wouldn’t work at all – just sat there forever “loading” the game. Finally I just gave up and looked at the frickin’ score. After seeing that, I suppose I got off easy.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The good news is that you haven't really missed anything worth watching.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My plan seemed so flawless - naturally, MLB found a way to screw me over anyway.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be labeled a heretic for saying this and cast out from BCB forever...
..but truth is, I thought Blanks’ inside-the-park home run was worth watching. To see a guy that big move around the bases that fast was pretty entertaining. And it’s not like he was gasping for air, waving for the oxygen mask afterwards. The dude’s an athlete.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda like Soto's inside-the-park HR last season in Houston?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted to be able to come into work in the morning and watch the condensed game first thing.
Oh, if we all could have jobs like that… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I was checking and responding to e-mails at the time!
And condensed games are only, like, 15 minutes long.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Effort
Just watching the first few innings last night, it looked like both Soriano and Bradley had chances to make difficult catches to prevent runs.
While neither one seems to get good jumps on flares and sinking liners, perhaps diving and selling out for your teammates would send a positive message and at least show that the big-money players on this team are interested in winning games.
Would either one have made a catch? Who knows. But if either one of them was willing to sell out for the benefit of the team, maybe that helps rally the troops.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 8:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah how many times do we have to hear
“he didn’t really get a good jump” ?
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by tony412 on Aug 19, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great question.
In Bradley’s case, I could understand not diving – if the ball gets by, 2 runs score instead of 1 (though I think he still needs to lay out).
With Soriano, it was a flare – it’s not going to roll particularly far past him if he misses it, and at worst, 1 run will score and there will be a man on 2nd/3rd with 2 outs instead of 1st.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're talking about the 1st inning thing...
Yeah, I think I’ll give Milton the benefit of the doubt there. That early in the game, you’ve got to play it safe.
Of course, his throw to the plate was about 100 feet off line…
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm willing to give Milton a pass there in the 1st.
I can understand the reason for playing it on the hop.
Soriano’s play was the one that made it 3-1, I think. I didn’t see any reason why he couldn’t dive there.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milton did the right thing
I think the pitching staff can handle one of those a game. I think you would start to get ticked beyond that…. Anyone can chase down a ball.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 19, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the game with a friend
and we were trying to remember one example of Soriano laying out for a ball. Has he ever dove? Has he ever dove and made the catch?
by paulucla on Aug 19, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hop is required
Its in his contract. I almost forget this guy is even on the team.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 19, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a question,
The other day someone posted that Soriano does the hop as a timing mechanism to catch the ball. Anybody ever been taught a timing mechanism for catching a fly ball? At first I accepted it, then I went back and thought about it, and I said, hold on a second here.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
by Marttisdad on Aug 19, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I understand the hop to be
Not sure why?? or what purpose it would serve. Instinct is a wonderful thing IMHO.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 19, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what's so funny
It seems to go against all logic usually taught for catching a fly ball.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
by Marttisdad on Aug 19, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Soriano was "taught" the hop.
I believe it’s something he came up with on his own to make himself more comfortable catching fly balls.
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by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In which case wouldn't he do the hop
on more difficult fly balls and not on the easy ones?
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
by Marttisdad on Aug 19, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, because easy fly balls...
…usually take longer to get to him. I think it’s during those long moments when Alfonso is waiting for a routine fly ball to reach him that he gets anxious (for lack of a better word), and he uses the hop to channel some of that nervous energy. On harder hit fly balls, he’s too busy running and stretching for the ball to feel the same sort of anxiousness.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting idea
I’ll stick to my thought that he’s weird, ha
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
by Marttisdad on Aug 19, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he's definitely a, uh, "unique" player.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With all that energy
one would think he would DIVE!
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Aug 19, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not timing - it's a security blanket.
The Cubs have an $18M outfielder on the MLB roster who needs to hop in order to feel comfortable catching a fly ball.
And we signed him to be a centerfielder.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, the hop is the least of Soriano's problems - and the Cubs for that matter.
And was he really signed to be a centerfielder? I know the Cubs tried it briefly at first, but that seemed like an outside chance to begin with.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed about the hop - I could not care less.
I just find it kind of odd that an MLB player does something that would earn a highschool kid some extra time after practice every night.
Yes, Soriano was signed to be our centerfielder – I also find that odd, considering that the Cubs are an MLB organization and presumably employ scouts who should have been able to tell our general manager that Soriano had never played CF in over 900 career games to that point, and that he was a pretty mediocre LF, too, and a bit of a head-case about catching fly balls.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cubs/2007-04-01-bonus-soriano-cover_N.htm
“The five-time All-Star, whose image is splashed on a huge billboard in downtown Chicago, signed an eight-year, $136 million free agent contract to lead off, play center field and spark an offense that was among the more inefficient attacks in the NL in 2006.
…
Soriano opens the season as the center fielder — another question. A year ago he balked at the move from second base to left field before accepting it. Now he is willingly adapting to another change.
“It’s not too different to play center field now. … I have one year experience in the outfield,” he says. “It’s my second year. I feel more comfortable and more relaxed.”
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm, yeah, I guess the plan was to have a Murton-Soriano-Jones OF in '07.
Seems so long ago now.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the hop at this point
is as much a habit as that weird glove thing Dempster does before each pitch. It may have started as a good idea — apparently Dempster did it to avoid tipping pitches — but now it’s just a habit
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it is taught
With no apologies to No. 12 whose play speaks for itself, infielders are taught to take throws and have their feet moving in a manner in which they get set to throw. It’s a short little crow hop, much shorter and quicker than OF’ers use, but it is taught and it is common, particularly when you watch college infielders throw the ball around the horn.
It isn’t taught as a timing mechanism to catch fly balls but Soriano’s background as a middle infielder is apparently why he does it. LIke a lot of middle infielders, it’s more comfortable than playing catch flat-footed.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Aug 19, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there ya go.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never. Ever. Not once, at least in Chicago.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Aug 19, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's going to be a weird next couple of years.
It seems like this team is mediocre, there’s not a tonne of high end talent in the minors, they certainly don’t want to go to the bottom to start over. It’s going to be very difficult for this team to build towards a true winner.
They remind me of so many hockey teams in the NHL. In hockey, you have teams that are always great, and just know how to do it, but a lot of other teams have to go to the basement to build through the draft and add impact players.
Problem of course is the difference in the NHL and MLB draft.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
by Marttisdad on Aug 19, 2009 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 8:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Reply fail.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Aboard the Fail Train!
Nice to have you on board, Al. Can I get you anything to drink? What?
Oh I forgot to read the last paragraph.
by EamuCanoli on Aug 19, 2009 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's very clear to anyone with 1/2 a brain, on how to fix this team...
WE NEED TO GET MORE RIGHT-HANDED!!!
I haz comedy show on Fridays. Come out and support a fellow Cubs fan? If you do, I'll see what I can do about Aaron Miles: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 19, 2009 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What if we really shake things up
Let’s skip right handed, skip left handed, skip switch hitting, what if we go ambi-dextrous?
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
by Marttisdad on Aug 19, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about...
Screw left-handed, screw right-handed… and just get guys that could flat out hit? Crazy.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOU JUST FIGURED IT OUT!!!
All screw ball pitchers!
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
by Marttisdad on Aug 19, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano
must be plaed on waivers. The Cubs really need to to bring in the young kids that have shown they can play big league ball. (Fuld, Fox, ) Cubs need to stress feilding fundementals and speed. I don’t see why they can’t build around Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome, Bradley, Wells, Lilly, Marmol (hopefully) etc… Dump him and change uniforms.
by questdoc on Aug 19, 2009 9:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not. That. Simple.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd bet anything that he's already passed through waivers.
It’s pretty likely that Hendry put the whole roster through waivers on Aug. 1 – either no claims were made, or claims were made on players who we then clawed back.
In any case, there is no way anyone would ever take the Soriano contract off Hendry’s hands. We’d probably have to include a top prospect and $10M annually.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Thank you.
I will work to make this green.
Though if Soriano was claimed, Hendry could just say “take him.” Which is probably why Soriano passed through waivers unclaimed.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will help make it green
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and three makes green
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tville, please read this
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most Untradeable Player in Baseball In A Bad Way
With that fat contract having five more years on it, nobody wants Soriano.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Aug 19, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol is going to close?
Wow. Well, maybe that is designed to motivate him to get through the control issues? or just the last act of desperation on the sinking ship.
The offense took a huge hit with the Aramis injury but it might have weathered it better if they at least were quicker at using Fox at 3B.
I don’t think there is any way that the team can withstand the disappearance of the Soriano torrid hot streaks, and MB’s LH power, unless they had a guy like Derosa, too.
I give Pinella credit for not letting the MB thing explode, working with him, and helping him remain a solid contributor in No. 2 slot. However, not sure why Dome is continually cast as an RBI guy instead of leadoff hitter? Also give Pinella credit for batting Soriano down and leaving him there.
Bright spots this season have been Wells, Hill, Guzman, Lee’s return,and that it looks like Fukudome is a decent player.
I am not going to make the same mistake with Soriano and MB that I did with Lee, so I am going to expect a return of power from both. It’d be great if we had two young studs that could push them out but at least if MB under performs power wise he won’t be here that much longer.
Finally, your comments on the Cardinals’ players comments on Derosa reminded me that Cubs players were making those same comments on his return to play v. Cubs. I was more perplexed that MB was making comments about what a great guy Derosa was and how the clubhouse liked him so much, etc…I don’t know how much it matters but when the replacements don’t produce as expected it then becomes a bigger issue and that’s primarily what has happened with the Cubs this season.
I give Hendry/Pinella credit for making roster changes (although too slowly) to improve the depth. But the real issue for the O has been lack of power from 4 guys expected to bring it. 2 are primarily due to injury (one of those to laziness) and the other 2 are a mystery.
I am hoping still for a hot streak but 2nd best is staring to become my priority ( .500 finish).
by DudeVf11 on Aug 19, 2009 9:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Despite feel rather depressed about our chances....
…we shall fight on the grass and dirt,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Team, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the basepaths,
we shall fight on the pitchers mounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the stands,
we shall fight in the box;
we shall never surrender…
With my apologies to Winston Churchill
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
by eths on Aug 19, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
but the cubs are a bunch of inglourious basterds this year
by cubsgocubs on Aug 19, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You surely don't mean....

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
by eths on Aug 19, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have GOT to understand the concept of NSFW
You’re just being inconsiderate at this point. Stop it.
And by the way, you’re nowhere near as good at this as santoswoodenlegs.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Few people are.
Doesn’t mean they can’t work at it.
by Flatley on Aug 19, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not mocking, seriously asking....
Is that really Not Safe For your Work?
Maybe i’m naive (i work in marketing at a concert and theatrical promoter, so i regularly have art of questionable ‘work safeness’ come across my desk)… but there seems to be nothing there offensive other than maybe the “Bastard”… but i think we see worse than that in the text of comments very regularly here.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the smoking I bet.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Half-naked woman
It could be safe. Could be not. The point is, I don’t know.
And it’s not the first time this poster has done that.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough... different work places, different rules.
I was just confused to see this image, of all the stuff we see up here, draw attention.
The average window card for “Chicago the Musical”, which i spent the better part of two months last year working on seems far more provocative.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I call for some restraint!!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 19, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At first glance, "BASTARD" in 36 pt bold font...
…is probably going to be more offensive than “fuck” in 10 pt regular font.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You cussed
I’m telling…
j/k obviously.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Aug 19, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I've pretty much given up on my "why do you feel the need to type-swear" crusade here
People have taken a pretty liberal interpretation of Al’s “I don’t mind the occasional fuck” policy, and evidently anytime the Cubs blow a game or Miles does anything is free license to let loose like a drunken sailor, so I guess I’ve reached the point where I just gotta say “fuck it”. ;-)
So those of you out there who were holding back out of respect for me (and there have been a few), I appreciate it and thank you for it, but it’s no longer necessary. Let ’er rrrrrrrrrip!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dub this review..
… the Drunken Sailor thread.
I think i’ve seen it a half dozen times.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 19, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame myself
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dang, the hiccups didn't post.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is safe for any workplace
show me an employee handbook that says “no pics of women wearing dresses”
Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)
This season has long been over. krummy12 (6/30/09)
by joeschmitt on Aug 19, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then get back to work.
What a silly thing to complain about.
by stuartscottslefteye on Aug 19, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
- I fail to see any direct profanity, obscenity or blasphemy. None of the 7 famous words are in use.
- While there is a tad of innuendo, the image is not pornographic and does not show unclothed “primary” or “secondary” sexual organs.
- That you may or may not find the response funny, meaningful or just plain stupid is a question of taste.
- Nobody here or elsewhere is being insulted.
- The file is slightly less than 100k, which is not really large these days.
So where is the problem? If you feel offended, that was not my intention.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
by eths on Aug 19, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
♪♫ Aces high!!! ♪♫
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iron Maiden?
Excellent!
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Always think of that song when I read that Churchill speech.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And tonight, opening for Iron Maiden...
Wyld Stallions!
I sometimes think of that movie when I hear Iron Maiden.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, a late 80s classic.
I saw Megadeth open for Maiden once.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That had to have been good
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y'know, I don't even listen to metal that much anymore...
…but I’d probably still rank that as among the Top 5 concerts I’ve ever seen. Just two bands totally committed to their music and completely locked onto their audience.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still Going Strong Too
I saw maiden last year and megadeth this summer and they were both amazing with iron maiden being one of the best shows i have ever seen.
by hoppy91 on Aug 19, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supertramp included an actual recording of Churchill giving that speech in one of their songs
I think it was on the Even in the Quietest Moments album. Awesome album, awesome song, and one kickass of a speech.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the most underrated bands of all time
Wonder why…
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Aug 19, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have we really played 5 games in SD this year?
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Aug 19, 2009 9:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup...
Tonight will be the 6th.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
swept there in late may
p/o the 8-game losing streak.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if the Cubs don't win tonight...
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
... Add it to the long list of disappointments that have made up this '09 season.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
by Blue W on Aug 19, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blue W
pretty much summed it up…
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is that though?
I though we play SD 7 times this year, with 3 being in CHI or SD and the other 4 in CHI or SD….thats how it normally works when we play a team outside of the NL Central.
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Aug 19, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, it's nine games.
There’s usually one outside-the-division team the Cubs play three times. This year, it’s San DIego.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the years they play 18 interleague games?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there any way to get rid of Soriano in off season without getting totally screwed?
by cubsgocubs on Aug 19, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Define totally screwed
We’re already screwed by having him, so how bad could it be?
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Aug 19, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed completely.
The trade, in and of itself, would be awful. Either taking on a Chan-Ho level contract, or sending $50M to the taker, and receiving nothing in return.
However, if the Cubs could save enough $$ from the $90M still owed to Sori to allow them to sign a better player, I’d be all for it.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's one way, but it's a long shot.
The Cubs can place Soriano on irrevocable waivers in the offseason. If any team claims him, he is the property of the claiming team, contract and all.
The Red Sox did it to put Manny Ramirez in his place in 2002 or 2003.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Aug 19, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for this
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing will happen, but a message will certainly be sent.
I, for one, wouldn’t mind shaking things up in that regard, just to see what happens.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Messages
Lou sent a message to him earlier this season by benching him for multiple games. The response? He pouted just the same way he did when Washington moved him to LF and he complained that when he was healthy, he should be playing.
Until his pride is attacked with more regularity than that, the guy will continue to produce just the way he is right now. Lazy, apathetic and oblivious that his skills have significantly declined. Never a good combination.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Aug 19, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There's always next year
Even if I do disagree about the chances of this team to do anything this year, there’s always next year. While I’ve been pretty vocal about the negative, I’m going to go over the positives that I’ve seen this season.
1) Derrek Lee: While he can never repeat his 2005 season, Lee has practically carried this team on his back. Forget the jabs about DP Lee. He’s figured it out. Here’s hoping he has a good 2010 season.
2) Ryan Theriot: What can I say about him? People complain about his arm at short, but his bat isn’t the problem.
3) Jeff Baker: Jim Hendry has a knack for getting little pieces to help the team. Baker is this season’s version of Reed Johnson and I wouldn’t mind having him stay in Chicago.
4) Ted Lilly: He was our lone All-Star representative and I like to think if he hadn’t caught the injury bug himself, the Cubs would be in better fortunes right now.
5) Kosuke Fukudome: If Lou ever stuck with a good thing instead of shifting the lineup like a drunken sailor, then we’d have our regular leadoff hitter. Fukudome had a second-half skid in 2008, earning the nickname Flukudome. He’s shown that he can adjust in the majors and I’m glad he’s on the team.
6) Jake Fox: I’m not going to say he’s the future, but he’s been a big part of this team’s attempt at contending this year.
Now on to the rehashed negatives:
1) Aaron Miles: Stick a fork in him. He’s done.
2) Milton Bradley: This is a strange negative because what he does is important for winning ball games. However, Hendry signed him to be a left-handed power bat. As Bradley’s splits show this season, he’s a right handed batter that can bat switch. He hasn’t produced in the RBI department because he’s not that type of player. This was a horrible move because we didn’t need more OBP guys.
3) Alfonso Soriano: I wouldn’t trade 2007 and 2008 for anything, but Soriano is likely in his decline phase now unless he figures out how to change his approach. From what we’ve seen, it’s not likely.
4) Mike Fontenot: Mike got his shot and he blew it. He’s a backup infielder at best and a starter for the Nats or Pirates at worst.
5) Geovany Soto: Soto took a nosedive after his remarkable 2008 season. He showed up out of shape and rode the bench in the WBC. Hopefully this season was a fluke. His 2008 campaign earns him one more chance in 2010.
6) Injury bug: Aramis Ramirez’s shoulder injury made me proclaim the season was over and this was back in May. How we missed his bat in June when we were in the midst of a horrible skid. His bat is worth quite a few wins by itself because we were getting stellar starting pitching at that point. That, in my opinion, is what has come back to haunt us at this point. The Cardinals were able to take advantage and get Matt Holliday and Mark DeRosa before the trade deadline, effectively fixing their problems and allowing them to overtake the Cubs. Think about it. Aramis fields the ball in Milwaukee without shoulder trouble. Where would the Cards be right now? If the Cards win the World Series, they should send Aramis Ramirez a thank you note. That’s right. Geovany Soto and many others have spent time on the DL as well.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't include the bullpen because I'd be writing all day.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot...
Randy Wells as a huge positive.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I didn’t exactly spend hours writing that.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good analysis...
Nonetheless.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 19, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you ought to trust your gut and reconsider negative #2
If MB failed at being a LH power bat and didn’t do anything else, then yes – he’d be a huge negative. But it sure seems like he could be and is quite effective as an OBP machine at the top of the order. With a healthy Lee and Ramirez following behind, that’s pretty durn good.
I don’t see how you can say “we don’t need more OBP guys”. Sounds like a Dustyism. We can always use more OBP – I don’t care if they’re all a bunch of slaphappy single hitters – 8 guys with OBP approaching .400 is going to get a lot of runs, and frustrate the hell out of the other teams.
I understand MB isn’t doing what we (Jimbo) signed him up for. But he is doing something else that is (or should be) contributing to the team’s success – what little there is.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The only thing better than a lineup with a bunch of high OBP guys
is a lineup with a bunch of high OBP guys that can run.
Good Dusty reference.!
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We play SD 9 times this year
and 6 are in SD? Who does the scheduling?
by Cubs and Hawks fan on Aug 19, 2009 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Been like that for years
Either it’s 18 interleague games for NLC teams or there’s extras against other NL teams not necessarily in your division.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Same thing happened with SD a few years ago, and with Atlanta (I think) last season. The Cardinals, for example, made two trips to New York this year and played the Mets nine times overall.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 19, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Two Cents -- For Whatever They Are Worth
While I was cleaning out my desk, I came across my opinions —
DeRosa was moved to make room for Milton’s contract — understandable in the off season from a financial point of view. However, allowing him to return to the NL and to the Cardinals no less, only magnified the financial constraints that the Cubs are feeling from the ever pending sale. The Deadbirds only gave up a marginal ballplayer in Perez. Where was Hendry in all of this? All things considered, I think that Cleveland would have taken the 3 guys that they gave the Cubs when DeRo was shipped to them earlier.
Trading for Heilman — What in the world possessed Hendry to trade for this guy? Listen — last year the Mets arguably had one of the worst bullpens in all of baseball. That’s why they signed Rodriguez and traded for JJ Putz. One of the biggest contributors to that failure was the production of Heilman. What was GM Jim thinking? Did one of his sources know a medicine man with some strange healing powers? Well, guess what, fire the medicine man.
While on the subject of medicine men — and training — what the heck is going on with the coaching staff and trainers? First of all with Soto. I constantly read in this blog that he came to spring training out of shape. So — GET HIM IN SHAPE. Put him on a regimen that ensures that he gets back to the physical condition that he was in during 2008. I just don’t understand. Then how about Big Z. He outed himself the other day, saying that he was lazy and did not recognize the need to do the things necessary to keep himself in playing shape. He needed to do some things that he didn’t like to do.
WHAT ??? Aren’t the ptiching coach and the training staff supposed to make sure that the players are folloiwng some type of regimen? Listen — if I have millions and millions of dollars invested in an employee, I would damn well make sure that he was doing the right things that he need to be ready for the job that I was paying him to do.
That leads me to Larry Rothschild — or preferably away from him as the Cubs should do.
The Big Z thing is only the icing on the cake. We banter continuously about Marmol. What about Larry helping him correct his problems? That’s what they have film for — look at what he did last year and compare it to what has been going on all season.
A few additional thoughts about General Jim and his decision making — and this includes his talent evaluators and scouts. Based on past performance, trading for Heilman was a huge mistake. Signing Bradley was showed more as a move of desperation rather than one with considerable thought. Given Milton’s past and his temperment, why would you want to bring him into your house knowing that he could easily get off track as he did earlier in the season. His early in season reactions to the fans and the media, I truly believe led to his continued poor performance for the first 3 months of the season. He ceratainly acted more like Jacque Jones and LaTroy Hawkins wheh it came to handling the media and fans. Can an insider tell us how his actions affect team chemistry and the overall attitude of the team?
Now on the Lou — I stated earlier in the summer that I thought that he was ready to return to Tampa. My opinion has not changed one bit since then. His continued insistence to use subpar performers like Heilman, Miles, and Gregg boggles the mind.
His continuing poor choice in lineup management — like Monday night when he kept Baker on the bench and played little Mikey. For crying out loud, Baker was hitting almost .500 for a week and he doesn’t play him? His continued insistence on playing Fontenot,, Miles, and others at 3B while Aram was out instead of bringing up and letting Fox play. And let’s not go to the defense thing, we needed a bat — a bat — a bat. Bradley, Soriano, and Soto were contributing absolutely nothing. And the Cubs are worrying about Fox’s defense? Give me a break.
And I will never forget the TV moment when Lou looked over at Charlie Manual and with a wave of his hands seemed to be saying — what are two old guys like us doing here instead of having a pina colada on my front porch in Tampa? Or better yet, maybe Lou could just go to the Rays games and sit behind home plate with Don Zimmer and tell each other old baseball stories. I think the time for that senior moment is long overdue.
by ceegeewow on Aug 19, 2009 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
¶
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this should be a FanShot
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Aug 19, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WORF SHOT!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 19, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could use the "quote" format - it would be awesome.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't get past the "...only gave up a marginal ballplayer in Perez." part
a) Perez is not “marginal”, and
b) there was a PTBNL in that deal and he (Jess Todd) is definitely not marginal.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Aug 19, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad Al finally said what needed to be said.
I only want to add two things.
(1) I disagree about Kerry Wood. He’s had as bad a year as any closer in baseball. There’s no reason to believe he woul’ve done better with the Cubs. However, Kevin Gregg was the closer with the most blown saves last season. What made Hendry or Lou think this season would be different? Bad signing, regardless of whether Wood stayed or not.
(2) I’m surprised Al didn’t mention the biggest bust of all this season. Alfonso Soriano disappeared from the face of the Earth this season. It’s as if a clone with no talent was put in his place in RF this year. As proven in past seasons, and the playoffs, as Soriano goes so do the Cubs. Thus, this wasted season.
Unlike Al, I’m convinced this year is done. There’s no reason to believe that these players will behave diferently from now on. They are who they are. Even the Padres play better. It’s up to the new ownership to see if they can improve a team with a bloated payroll, with no financial flexibility.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 19, 2009 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree with you on a few points, Al
“Therefore, a useful fifth starter (Jason Marquis) and a valuable hitter (Mark DeRosa) were traded and Milton Bradley was acquired.”
Hendry could have signed Milton while keeping DeRosa (and maybe Marquis — see below).
Keeping DeRo would have been accomplished by not signing Miles ($2+plus mill), not signing Gaudin (around $2 mill) and not signing Gathright ($800,000). DeRo makes $5.5 million this year — and I’m confident another $500,000 or so could have been found to keep him if these other horrible moves weren’t made.
Milton and DeRo could be on this team right now, Period.
I also think the Dempster signing needs to come under more scrutiny. I know everybody likes Demp and that he has gone through a lot of personal issues this year. But committing $9 million to him this year — and $43 million over the next three years was a terrible decision.
The Cubs could have kept Marquis, whose salary they’re paying part of anyway, not signed Dempster, had more money that could have been used for many other purposes in 2009 and (most importantly) had financial flexibility for 2010. I’m not an advocate of blowing the team up, but how are they going to make incremental moves with SO many guys locked up for next season?
I love Kerry Wood, but we can’t assume he would have taken less than $10 million to stay with the Cubs, and we can’t assume that he would have performed better just because he lives in Chicago. I don’t have any problem with the decision to let him go — but I totally agree that Kevin Gregg was a terrible replacement.
Finally, I don’t think we can give Hendry (or Lou) credit for bad decisions that allowed for the emergence of Randy Wells, Jake Fox or Jeff Baker. Fox and Wells were midseason callups, and Baker was a trade made after the offseason moves started to look bad. Had the Cubs acquired Baker in spring training — realizing that Ramirez might need more of a backup — then this is a different argument.
Even if Hendry’s offseason decisions looked better six months ago, he’s GOT to be judged by the results. And they aren’t there.
There are a lot of other things to talk about — Soto’s inexcusable decision to be out of shape, Soriano, Lou’s increasingly questionable decisions. But I’ll end here.
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed on all fronts.
Although I think that Al is correct that the Cubs front office tied the DeRosa and Bradley situations together in their minds. It is, as you note, an objective fact that keeping DeRosa would have been revenue-neutral, even if Bradley were added. Doesn’t the Gathright Era seem like a long time ago?
The real irony is that, if Miles is unconditionally released prior to the 2010 season, he will wind up costing the Cubs exactly the same money that they would have paid DeRosa, over exactly the same time period.
I can’t blame them for ditching Marquis. I agree that the Dempster signing was a bit gaudy and outlandish. The bottom line is, this front office has been given every advantage in an unfair system, and has failed pretty spectacularly.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aye
This season was also put through the meat grinder when Aramis Ramirez went down in May. I stated above that this was likely the moment where it went down the tubes because his bat could have made the different during that skid in June.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Miles signing was tied to the DeRo trade
And why in the hell did they tender dumpster-fighting Gaudin a contract?
As much as I personally like Dempster, Hendry overpaid by a lot — and should have kept Marquis because he would have had money to play with in 2010.
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Gaudin.
That was a real head-scratcher. Non-tendering him could have saved almost $2 million.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which comes back to the need for a new GM
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. I'd forgotten about that one.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's kind of remarkable how cavalier they are with Two Million Dollars
I know that the Cubs are a huge organization, but no matter who you are, two million dollars is just a gigantic amount of money. It’s a life-changing amount of money. I don’t understand how the Cubs organization can be so cavalier with such large amounts of money.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Aug 19, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say they're inconsistently cavalier
$2 million for Gaudin? Sure! $2.2 million for Aaron Miles! Definitely!
$5.5 million for DeRo? Well, that’s a lot of money.
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of little bottles make one big bottle
Just remember that when you’re hitting the booze. It’s the same thing with money.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but that's more than $2M. (sarcasm)
They don’t seem to understand that $2M + $2.2M is in the neighborhood.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 19, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'll make you angrier
Change the $2.2M for Miles to $4.9 cuz he has $2.7M for 2010 and I’m pretty sure it’s NOT an option.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 19, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know
I was just talking 2009 money.
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I don't see why:
Miles couldn’t have been Scales and/or Blanco, and Gathright couldn’t have just been Felix Pie.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright could have been Sam Fuld, too.
Oh, wait. He is.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I agree with a lot of what you said.
It just goes to back up my point that Hendry and Piniella made changes to this team that didn’t need to be made, and could have accomplished the same result while keeping some key parts that they got rid of.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 19, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just really tired ...
of hearing that Milton’s presence was the reason we lost DeRo. It definitely wasn’t.
What about the Dempster contract? Still a fan?
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm certainly not, but it wasn't the worst deal
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was last offseason's most expensive
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all the little deals that followed the Dempster deal that sucked
Signing Bradley, Aaron Miles, picking up the option on Rich Harden’s contract, Joey Gathright, Chad Gaudin, etc. Meanwhile, DeRosa was traded. Wood was let go in free agency. Nothing was done to address the left-handed power issue even though Bradley was supposed to be that guy. How useful would Raul Ibanez have been when Ramirez went down due to his shoulder injury?
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ibanez couldn't have played right
Now, that Abreu guy could. And Orlando Hudson sure would have looked nice as a Cub this year.
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but we're arguing the same thing
The Dempster signing wasn’t a big deal by itself. They did not address their problems whatsoever. Instead, they just made them worse.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Aug 19, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Dempster signing was a big deal by itself
$52 million
by elgato on Aug 19, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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