Time to DFA cries of "DFA" and "Waivers"
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2009 11:29 AM CDT
49 comments
For months now, we've been reading constant calls to DFA this player or that player. Now that July 31 is astern, we're hearing daily cries to put one player or another on waivers.
Note - the following paragrah is background information before I get into the main discussion:
I am going to start by saying I have been very critical of Jim Hendry. I think he spends too much money on mediocre players who draw little interest elsewhere, which contributes a lot more to the Cubs' payroll being inflexible then contracts to legitimate contributors. I was ok with the Soriano deal, because they needed to change the perception of the Cubs not being interested or able to get the big names. Yes, Beltran would have been a better move, but at the point in time when Soriano was signed - not before or after - it wasn't the worst thing in the world to do for the franchise. The deals of J.Jones, Miles, Perez, Rusch, etc., thinking Gathright, Izturis, etc. could be contributors are the decisions that bother me.
Having established that I'm not impressed with Hendry as a GM, I will say that I don't think the man is an idiot. There are certain things that all GMs do as a matter of course, and I'll get into that later.
Now the main point:
This is not fantasy baseball, Pursue the Pennant, Strat-O-Matic or any other simulated baseball game of your choice. No one is going to trade their good players for the Cubs' crap, nor should anyone expect to be taken seriously if they suggest such a deal is viable.
DFA is not a wonder drug that cures an underperforming team's ailments. You don't prescribe the DFA pill to a player and have him magically get better. You also don't DFA a player in the first half of his first season of a multi-year contract, unless he has done something so egregious as to make a continued relationship with the team untenable. It simply is not realistic - if you do this, you are likely on the hook for the entire remainder of the contract, less the prorated share of the league minimum IF someone else picks that player up. A trade is still possible, but it is very much a buyer's market.
On to the flavor of the day: Put them on waivers! That'll clear up payroll!
Virtually every player is put on waivers immediately after the trading deadline. Despite what the cerebral likes of Rob Dibble might think, in addition to being noted in numerous articles, it's common sense. This is where the Hendry part comes in. I don't think he's a great GM, but he's not stupid and would not be negligent as to forget to do this - AND HE HAS A STAFF THAT WOULD REMIND HIM.
If you wait until now to put someone on waivers, it's a stronger signal that a deal is imminent - and a signal that someone else might want to think about making a claim if they want to block a deal that would make the team ahead of them stronger. By placing everyone on waivers right away, it makes it less likely players would be claimed, thus more likely to make deals.
Some of you will cry, "Billy Wagner!" Well, he was on a rehab assignment. I'm not saying ALL players are placed on waivers, but most are. You can pull the waivers back if someone makes a claim, so there is no risk in doing it.
Waivers are not used during the season to send a message to players. Say again: Waivers are NOT used during the season to send a message to players.
To everyone who chooses to disagree with the above, and thinks this is a clever new way to dump Soriano, I ask you: WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO CLAIM HIM? If the Cubs don't think that he's worth keeping, do you honestly believe that someone else is going to be stupid enough to take on that contract, given how he has looked most of this year? Really? REALLY?
I'm just as frustrated as the rest of you with how the Cubs look. And I think Al would say that suggestions on improving the team should be part of what BCB is. But the same non-starter suggestion dozens of times a day . . . it's just not going to happen.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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A definitive and welcome statement.
I have nothing to add but my rec.
+1
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Aug 22, 2009 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
And rec’d here as well.
Needed to be said, if for no other reason than to allow us to link to this instead of taking the time to type a refute as this is suggested twice a day for the next however long.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 22, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too will rec this
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 22, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One note:
I may not have much access to BCB for a few days, so if you post something that disagrees and I don’t respond, I’m not (necessarily) ignoring you . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2009 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
oh no...
have you been placed on waivers?
by daily2b on Aug 22, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Revocable, though
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well not everyone
Not Wells or Lilly. Also I don’t see a whole lot of point because Soriano, Bradley etc are not going to be claimed. I certainly would not ‘give up" most players for nothing and I don’t see a last minute trade for Soto, Guzman, Marmol if they cleared waivers or you could work out a trade with claiming team. No harm in it but it won’t change anything.
I would almost DFA Miles but I would prefer trying to talk him into taking an minor league assignment and seeing if he can get it together next year.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I made it a point to say not 100% of players are placed on waivers
Miles is an interesting one. At this point, I could see it. In June, not so much.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good post
but I suspect it will fall on deaf ears.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 22, 2009 11:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
or dead brains
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 22, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better keep the link to this post handy for upcoming Game/post game threads.
Thanks to Shanghai for posting this.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 22, 2009 12:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
DFA Shanghai Badger!
(did not RTFA)
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Aug 22, 2009 12:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
RTFA?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He stopped by to say something snarky...
… but did not RTFA – Read The F’ing Article.
Keeping it in the acronym family, i’d like to nominate, for undue glee at cubs losses, general nastiness, and the inability to treat everyone with the most basic of human decenscy, Clutch16 for DBOTW.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 22, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pity.
I just glanced through his recent comment history, and didn’t see any subject lines about DFA/waivers. Maybe he was just kidding.
Saw he loved The Critic, which I liked. Makes me think Jay Sherman would say about this team, “It stinks!”
Anyway, thanks for the clarification.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might be confusing him for Clutch, no 16. Whoops.
Hung. Over.
Somebody with Clutch in their handle was being unpleasant in the gamethreads of late.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 22, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clutche, perhaps?
Just a guess. Not implicating.
Clutch16 is usually pretty level-headed. Unless he was serious, in which case he sucks!
I keed….
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, i think i was mistaking Clutches.
My apologies, Clutch16th. Three lashings for me.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Aug 22, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just happy to be nominated!
And, yes, I was being utterly unserious. SB’s contributions are usually worth a look, but I didn’t have time for anything more than drive-by snark.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Aug 22, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's joking.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a good explanation of how waivers, DFA, rule 5 draft, and options work:
It is not long or heavy reading, helped fill in some things I didn’t know or understand.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 22, 2009 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
List?
I don’t suppose there is a list of players that have cleared waivers, is there? That could make for some amusing reading.
Dave
by Dave in the basement on Aug 22, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The waiver system is supposed to be anonymous...
but here’s a confirmed list of players to clear waivers
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
by dtc0405 on Aug 22, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not a very long list...
… and it’s not anywhere near complete.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 22, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, so help me out.
How did Robinson Cano clear waivers? Don’t get me wrong, I understand that even if he had been claimed, the Yankees likely wouldn’t have let him go, but why would no one claim him?
by Pat19 on Aug 22, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contract, most likely.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 22, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps, though his contract really isn't that bad...
Only 2 years and $23 million committed, with two additional option years available. Not bad for a 26-year-old 2B with an OPS+ of ~120 in 3 of the last 4 years.
by SouthernCub on Aug 23, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction - $21 million...
$9 million in 2010, $10 million in 2011, $2 million buyout after 2011. The team options for 2012 and 2013 are nice.
by SouthernCub on Aug 23, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outstanding post, Badger.
Well stated and with good detail. FWIW, this is an excellent example of what a FanPost should be — someone’s opinion on a topic that has NOT been covered lately, backed up with facts.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 22, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
cubs-kids
That’s the way the cubs have been acting this season. I’m 53yrs old & a cub fan as long as i can remmember. It’s sickning to set and watch them throw there little tantrums. For what they make they should be happy to be playing. There is no enthusiasum in there duggout & hasn’t been all year.They need to grow up & start thinking, and playing like grown men instead of acting like little kids.Our troops in Iraq, making very little money and giving there all every day would be glad to change places. Get your heads out of your b_ _ t and start acting like you care.
by chopper-cubs on Aug 22, 2009 1:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TWO WORDS: THANK YOU.
I can only pray the teeming hordes of “waiver wingnuts” will read this and get edumacated. And, from this point forward, if anyone suggests putting any Cubs player on waivers, might I suggest that we do not respond except to provide them with a link to this Fanpost.
Waive on, Cubs fans! Waive on!
PS Rec’d!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 22, 2009 1:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
DFA THE WHOLE TEAM/GM/AND MANAGER NOW!
haha. You guys can blame all of this on Hendry, he has done nothing to make the team younger and set himself up for an extended run. Plus, much like the white sox, we need some high draft picks to start producing. We got lucky with Beckham, but our first round picks have been abysmal at best. The first round picks on the north side have been even worse. Without at least a little help from your own organization, you can expect to overpay for other team’s players.
"you should go back to your cowardly practice of offering no opinion of your own."
-picktoclick
by Where Triples Go to Die on Aug 22, 2009 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
WOW
those are the worst words I have ever heard as a Cubs fan… Kevin Gregg and Aaron Heilman are warming up in the pen
by IowaCubsWS09 on Aug 22, 2009 5:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a White Sox troll.
Too bad he’s a Blackhawks fan.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 23, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are no cubs' fan
you are a punk. i want to punch you in the nose i am ex-us navy, back when that meant something.
by brian custer on Aug 23, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other problem with simply releasing someone now
like, say, oh I don’t know, Aaron Miles, is this:
Optimism and Cubbie Blue colored glasses aside, this team is in TROUBLE. Getting rid of Aaron Miles despite the money he is owed is not the answer to winning the NL Central this year – maybe a few weeks or months ago it would have helped, but not any more.
You don’t eat salary when you aren’t making a run. If he were put up on waivers and actually claimed, no doubt he would be sent packing, because there would be no salary to eat. No GM on Earth would take him and his contract, though. The best chance, albeit slim, would be to move him in the offseason.
I repeat, you don’t eat salary when you aren’t going to win anyway. Not only would you eat his contract, but you have another wallet to fill on the 25 man roster.
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
by PacificCub on Aug 22, 2009 6:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the Brewers did eat salary with Bill Hall
And they’re not going anywhere this year, either.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 23, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm willing to bet
SOMEONE will pick up Bill Hall. Nobody would take Miles. That’s at least a small chunk of change kept, I suppose.
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
by PacificCub on Aug 23, 2009 7:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
When you DFA a player
you do not change anything about his salary obligation. You simply continue to pay his salary without having the benefit of his services. In Miles case, I would suggest his services have no benefit.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Aug 23, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right... the contract is a sunk cost...
If the player is not worth being on the 25-man roster, it doesn’t make sense to keep the player just because of the contract. You pay the contract either way.
The only reason to not DFA the player is if you think the player can improve to the point that he’s worth enough to keep on the roster. For example, you don’t DFA Soriano or Bradley because they are still very capable of having big offensive seasons over the remainder of their contracts – probably moreso than their alternatives in the organization.
Now, Miles is an interesting case. His contract isn’t THAT expensive next year, so it’s possible for him to match his contract value. But even if he bounces back (clearly he’s performing far below his career norms at the plate), he’s not really any better than what we have in Baker/Fontenot/Blanco/Scales.
by SouthernCub on Aug 23, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But if he’s set free, you will have to pay his salary, PLUS the additional salary of whoever would be put on the roster to replace him.
Granted, that might be minimal given the time left in the season and subtracting his current minor league salary… But you get my point.
All this being said, I wouldn’t mind paying out to get young guys service time and playing time in his place.
Jackie likes the smell of cut grass, he used to play ball on Saturdays, Playin in the sun...
by PacificCub on Aug 23, 2009 7:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
The difference in price is small...
~$450-500k for the 1+ year that Miles would be replaced.
by SouthernCub on Aug 24, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waivers for Miles...
“The other problem with simply releasing someone now
like, say, oh I don’t know, Aaron Miles, is this”
Actually… releasing Miles on waivers at this point is a bit like trying to bail the Titanic with a 2 year olds sippy cup…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
by Endrick on Aug 27, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said
At this point the whole DFA thing has been so overused, that my friends and I now treat it as a joke while we’re watching games; “He struck out. DFA his ass!!”
by bluekoolaide on Aug 22, 2009 6:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post, Badger.
I will add one other complicating factor to Jim Hendry’s job…
If a player has a full NTC (e.g., Sori), he normally cannot be placed on trade waivers without his written consent. (This also includes 10-5 guys like Demp.) Also, even if Sori gives his consent to be placed on TW, if a team were to claim him, he can force Hendry to pull him back (regardless of whether Hendry makes a trade with the claiming team or just wants to let him go) if he doesn’t want to play for the team that claimed him — his NTC covers waiver claims as well as “real” trades.
Thus, Hendry cannot take the Alex Rios avenue of jettisoning Sori’s (or Z’s or Dome’s or Demp’s) salary without the player’s consent.
Even if Hendry were to DFA Sori, he can still reject a trade or minor league option and force Hendry to release him and make him a very well-paid FA.
In short, you are very correct that we toss “DFA” around way too casually — it ain’t that easy.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Aug 23, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Interesting info as always - thanks!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 25, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
You seem to be posting less this year; that’s too bad. I’ll second daver’s comment.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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