The Cubs 2002 Draft
by tim815 on Aug 23, 2009 7:46 PM CDT
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PrintThere has been discussion recently on how well, or poorly, the Cubs draft.
I have decided to start looking back at recent drafts to find out. While looking at a list of names doesn't tell the entire story, it can make for interesting conversation. I will limit my conversation on the topic, instead seeing what the comments are from you. Some of you will remember some of the players far better than I do.
A list of names doesn't take into account injuries, development, or any of the many other factors. Here is the Cubs 2002 Draft class. Data taken from www.chicagocubs.com
Round Position Player
1 LHP Luke Hagerty
1 RHP Matthew Clanton
1 RHP Robert Brownlie
1 RHP Chadd Blasko
2 LHP Justin Jones
2 1B Brian Dopirak
3 RHP William Petrick
3 SS Matthew Craig
4 C Samuel Rick
4 LHP Richard Hill
5 CF Shawn Scobee
6 OF Christopher Walker
7 SS Joey Monahan
8 LF Jason Fransz
9 RF Adam Greenberg
10 OF Keith Butler
11 C Christopher Miller
12 RHP Jason Wylie
13 RF James Hoffpauir
14 RHP Rocky Cherry
15 C Clifton Medlin
16 SS Jemel Spearman
17 LHP Forrest Beverly
18 SS Donald Hood
19 RHP Thomas Atlee
20 RHP Matthew Hines
21 C Paul O'Toole
22 C Taylor Teagarden
23 SS Stephen O'Sullivan
24 RHP J B Thurmond
25 RHP Ronald Bay
26 RHP Jeffrey Jacobsen
27 SS Travis Welsch
28 LHP Evan Seibly
29 RHP Brett Lewis
30 SS Kyle Emmons
31 RHP Kurt Steele
32 SS Jose Rios
33 C Adam Harvey
34 C Grant Staniszewski
35 C Anthony Mclin
36 RHP Kalen Gibson
37 RHP Kyle Dubois
38 C Randy Wells
39 LF Daniel Desouza
40 RHP Collin Walker
41 RHP Mark Holliman
42 SS Geoff Orr
43 RHP Cory Anderson
44 C Jose Cortez
45 LHP Christopher Ericksen
46 C Patrick McIntyre
47 C Joshua Morgan
48 CF Clemon Bailey
49 RHP Gary Kerschke
50 1B Bryan Kayser
My assessment: For having so many early picks, they sure didn't get much from this draft. That is a danger of picking so many arms early. This draft would have looked better if Rich(ard) Hill wouyld have progressed instead of imploding. James {Micah} Hoffpauir was a good result for a thirteen, Randy Wells a great 38. Adam Greenberg would have been better without getting beaned. Rocky Cherry hung around the system awhile, as did Brian Dopirak. The early pitchers got hurt, and that really ruined this draft.
I'm glad the team drafts better than this now. Discuss.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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interesting topic
Petrick made some appearances in the catastrophe known as 2006…
Greenberg is such a crappy story… I was at the game.
I remember Brownlie held out for a while… he sure panned out.
Wow
4 first round picks and not one of them makes a name for themself. PATHETIC.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 23, 2009 8:27 PM CDT reply actions
Did you guys know
that Taylor Teagarden (now with the Rangers) is the great grand nephew of the great jazz trombonist Jack Teagarden?
I wondered
If he was related. Always loved to hear “Big T” sing “a song was born”
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
It was a bad draft
although Billy Petrick briefly made the majors too. Brownlie was a gamble—he was a guy who, going into the season, was considered the favorite to be the overall #1 pick in the draft. He was injured and had a bad season in college. The Cubs gambled that he would be able to regain the velocity that made him so dominant the year before. He never did, and the Cubs lost the bet.
By the way, Brownlie was the 1st pick in that draft, not Hagerty. I don’t know why they’re listed that way. Brownlie was the regular #1 pick whereas Hagarty, Blasko and Clanton were supplemental 1st round picks.
It was a bad draft because the Cubs had four first rounders, but other teams did just as poorly that season. Take a look at the Diamondbacks draft. They got Chris Snyder in the second round. When Chris Snyder is the good news, you don’t want to hear the bad news. Or even the Padres, who took Khalil Greene with the #13 pick in the draft. Greene looked like he’d be a good player for three or four years, and then the bottom fell out. The rest of their draft is full of no one worth anything. The best player the Astros took was Patrick Misch in the fifth round. The Cardinals draft was even worse, although they have the excuse of not having a #1 or #2 pick.
This is the famous “Moneyball” draft, in which Billy Beane critics (cough—Tracy Ringolsby—cough) attack Beane because Jeremy Brown never turned into anything, I guess. Of course, the Athletics also took Nick Swisher, Joe Blanton, Mark Teahan and Jared Burton that draft. Of course, they did have seven first round picks. If they’d have only signed Jonathan Papelbon.
My point is though, that while this was a bad draft, you can’t understand it without seeing the context of what the other teams did in this draft. At least we got Micah Hoffpauir and Randy Wells out of it, although Wells is certainly more a product of the development team rather than the amateur scouts.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 23, 2009 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
They picked at #27
we picked at #21. Not really a big difference.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 23, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that's a big difference
and I’ve already mentioned the Cubs many picks. But that’s because the Cubs had a lousy record and has nothing to do with the D-Backs winning the World Series.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 24, 2009 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
That should read “that’s not because the Cubs had a lousy record” because they didn’t. It did have nothing to do with the D-Backs winning the World Series.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 24, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks for the info
I’ll probably do 2003 & 2004 soon as well. One of the things I’m happy with is that our early picks are doing something already.
The Reds
have got to be happy with that, since with their first round pick, the #3 pick overall that year, they took Chris Gruler, who only pitched in 27 games as a professional, none above the Midwest League.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 23, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I would love to dig into this further
because it fascinates me.
There have been lots of 1st round busts, but it seems to me that in recent years, the % of solid players coming out of the 1st rounds has gone up. Mostly because more teams are drafting college players in the first round.
Look at 2005: Upton, Gordon, Zimmerman, Braun, Tulowitzki, Pelfrey, McCutchen, Crowe, Mayberry, Ellsbury, Rasmus – all in first round (Cubs- Pawelek…ouch!)
2006: Hochevar, Longoria, Kershaw, Lincecum, Scherzer, and several other who are considered top prospects in their respective organizations.
It's too early
to judge the 2006 draft, although it is looking to be a good one. Hochevar was a budget pick by the Royals and really isn’t that good. He’s a #3 starter in the majors, most likely. 2005 is looking to be pretty strong.
If you want a weak one, look at the 2000 draft. Adrian Gonzalez was the first pick in the draft and he’s become an All-Star, but only after two teams gave up on him. After that, you’ve got Rocco Baldelli taken at #6, who was a good player before his health became a problem. Chase Utley went at #15 to the Phils and the Cardinals took Adam Wainwright at #29. Besides those four players, the whole first round is a bunch of junk. Guys who played in the majors and stunk or guys who just never made it. In the supplemental first round, you’ve got Aaron Heilman and Kelly Johnson, neither of whom are any better than serviceable.
The 2000 draft was the one with the infamous Matt Harrington, as well.
I actually wonder, if you are right and the teams are getting more “hits” in the first round, if it isn’t because of improvements in player development rather than scouting. But I suppose that’s something that’s impossible to prove one way or the other.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 24, 2009 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
WE GOT ....
PHELPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COOL BEANS!
by lexmarklover on Aug 23, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
and a different
Brett Jackson.
Ughhh!!! Horrible draft. 5 of six pitchers at the top. Donald Veal is the highlight, though Ruhlman (23rd) may eclipse him. Mike Brenly at 43.
They drafted M. Brenley
again after he spent a couple of years at UNLV. I met him when he was in HS. Nice kid.
Yeah
That drafting of Michael Brenly doesn’t count because he didn’t sign.
That was the draft that got the scouting director fired. Tim Wilken took over in 2006.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 23, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
They draft better than this now?
I wasnt aware of that
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Of the last two drafts
in the first six rounds (thirteen picks, as one was a supplemental pick), all but one are doing a productive job. Cashner and Carpenter could be Wrigley Ready by 2011. Ryan Flaherty and DJ LeMahieu are infielders that are maybes by 2012, along with Brett Jackson. Matt Cerda is injured. Wes Darvill is a shortstop that is 18 and should be ready for Boise in June. We also have five other arms making their way through our system.
We aren’t whiffing on our number ones. While we don’t know results for a number of years (which is why I’m only planning on going through 2004) our prospects and system depth are markedly improved.
We arent whiffing on our number ones?
Hows Tyler Colvin doing? Ryan Flaherty? Mark Pawelek? Ryan Harvey? Bobby Brownlie? Add that to our inability to develop an international free agent position player, and you get 30M dollar DHs playing RF.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Flaherty's doing fine
He had a rough first half, but have you seen what’s he’s done the second half? .304 with 10 HRs since the All-Star Break. .360 OBP. With 19 HRs, he’s third in the Midwest League in home runs.
Colvin’s been even better since the All-Star Break: .333/.375/.532. But I give him less credit because he is repeating AA. On the other hand, he was injured last season.
by Josh Timmers on Aug 24, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently you missed
that i was talking about the last two drafts. throw in 2007 (Vitters and Donaldson, who helped us get Harden) and we are much better than we used to be. Okay, so you don’t like Flaherty. But his OPS is .810 in Peoria, playing mostly middle infield. Most GMs would love to have him in their system.
Colvin, Pawalek, Brownlie. Old news. We are doing better.
Havent
u checked Colvin lately. he’s being quite the buzz this late summer and is now healthy for the 1st time in quite awhile and he never complained about it and we’ll see how it turns out in the next few yrs. Like I said this isnt football or basketball. If you listent to the old purists in this game they’ll tell you a player generally needs 4/5 years before he becomes a regular major leaguer.
Time will tell
I’ve been high on the 2008 draft, and I think I like the 2009 draft better than a lot of others. That said, we’re still in the early stages. We may very well look back a decade from now and realize that maybe this was like 2002 – a lot of excellent talent brought in, but guys fail to develop. Or … maybe we build or core for the next decade. With Wilken drafts, it seems like folks either like it, or they are lukewarm, and that is understandable due to the types of players that Wilken goes after. I do applaud the fact that they have a focus on athletes, as I think there is a benefit to that, but certainly, there are drawbacks as well.
Not to you bren, but just as a point of reference that I am trying to make for people – this 2002 draft was supposed to be the backbone for this decade for us. Up till the middle of the decade, that hope burned bright. We’re still in the early stages of looking at the 2008 results, another pitching heavy draft. For all those that are excited on our recent drafts, I’m with you. For all those that are lukewarm, I can understand various reasons why.
Its
not football or basketball. In football and basketball it can turn around with one or two draft almost within the year. Your structure of the organization in baseball will not change for 4 to 6 years and maybe beyond that. Thats the problem with baseball when a organization starts to go backwards, it will take everybit of five years or beyond that. Just ask the people at Tampa and then it came quickly.
I basically agree
with your point, but I think the 4-6 year time frame to turn things around is a little overstated. Yes, it took Tampa Bay quite awhile, but there were many missteps and organizational changes on the way that set them back – multiple times.
Most baseball people that I have talked to say that, assuming things are not too horrible to begin with, you can retool a farm system with two good drafts – assuming you have a good number of picks.
I know the D’Backs felt after they depleted the system in the Haren trade (and others), that they went a long way toward restocking the organization in this year’s draft, when they had a large number of picks that they got as a result of compensation for the loss of free agents.
That seems to be the primary strategy these days…acquire quality players in their contract year – get that one solid year out of them, offer arbitration when you know they will walk for the money elsewhere, and stockpile those draft picks. D’Backs got 5 compensatory picks for the loss of Hudson, Lyon and Cruz. Too bad they did not have the guts to offer arbitration to Adam Dunn, it could have been 7 picks.
I'll 2nd this
in regards to timeframe. If everything breaks right, a system can be rebuild quickly. People get this idea that the difference between a solid system and a bad system is a lot. An elite system, now that’s a different equation. But the difference between a middle tiered system and a bottom tiered one can be as little as one draft, particularly if you hit on collegiate players. Of course, that doesn’t really mean a system is good … it just means a draft turned out strong (and even then, what you could end up with is a lot of 2nd tier guys and not land any top tier talent).
The D-backs had a solid draft this year. Their system’s been a mess, partly due to the trade, but also due to the financial situation out there. The Pollock pick was understandable – a cheap player to balance out the cost of Borchering. If their HS picks pan out, the system will rebuild itself fairly quickly, and their big league club is still young right now.
Thats
all fine in theory. 1st of all you have to have the right year. If you had those picks in 2000 you would have been in trouble, because that may have been one of the worst drafts in baseball history, so going into something like this you have to blessed with a full compliment of prospects and the right people that can pick them.
to look at a draft by the Cubs in 2002
who were the names (and what round) that made is in MLB (not fill in players, but big names). Was the 202 draft weak for all teams due to lack of top tier talent, or were we one of a few who flopped
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
It was a decent draft
It wasn’t as strong as the 2001 draft (the one we got Mark Prior in) but it was a lot better than the 2000 draft, which was a really weak one. (That’s the one we got Luis Montanez with the #3 pick. Funny thing is, Montanez has had a better career than the guys taken at #2 and #4)
by Josh Timmers on Aug 23, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Some perspective - the LA Dodgers and SF Giants 2002
LA Dodgers 2002 Draft
Major league players:
1 – James Loney (19th pick)
2 – Jonathon Broxton
4 – Delwyn Young (traded to PIT)
11 – James McDonald (split time this year between AAA/LA)
15 – Eric Stults (organizational filler starter)
17 – Russell Martin
Top 10 picks still in an acceptable place in minors: NONE
Busts in top 10:
1s – Greg Miller – P – got rocked at AAA, now down to A ball for LAA
2 – Zach Hammes – P – 5+ ERA at AA
3 – Mike Nixon – C – washed out in 2005
5 – Mike Megrew – P – played in independent leages last year
7 – David Bagley – 3B – washed out in 2004
8 – Jamaal Hamilton – P – washed out in 2005
9 – Denver Kitch – SS – washed out in 2007
10 – Ryan Williams – P – washed out in 2004
SF Giants – 2004 Draft – Top 4 Picks
1. Matt Cain
2. Fred Lewis
3. Dan Ortmeier
4. Kevin Correia
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
Uh, INVALID
Giants drafted Matt Cain in 2002. The Dodgers drafted James Loney and Jonathan Broxton in 2002.
Sorry - that was a typo
I meant to write SF Giants 2002 Draft, not 2004 draft.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 23, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Names that you will recognize from the 2002 Draft
BJ Upton, Zach Greinke, Prince Fielder, Jeff Francis, Jeremy Heredia, Joe Saunders, Khalil Greene, Scott Kazmir, Nick Swisher, Cole Hamels, James Loney, Jeff Francouer, Matt Cain, Joe Blanton, John Mayberry, Joe Votto, Mark Teahan, Micah Owings, Jonathan Broxton, Brian McCann, Chris Snyder, Elijah Dukes, Curtis Granderson,
All in the first 3 rounds.
Wow...
we had four first round picks and didn’t sign one of these guys? Please tell me Prince Fielder was gone before our first pick… I mean his dads a legend and he was hitting balls out of major league parks at 12 years of age. This makes me sick in the stomach when I look at this.
by IowaCubsWS09 on Aug 23, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh.
The Cubs drafted Taylor Teagarden and didn’t sign him. Oh, well.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, he was a Texas kid
and had his heart set on going to UT. He won a National Championship at UT in 2005 and was drafted that year by the Rangers – all the way up to Round 3 (from Round 22 in 2002). So you’d have to say he made a good decision and the Cubs probably didn’t have much of a chance of changing his mind.
Before people rip this draft completely to shreds
Keep in mind that this was a well-thought of draft when we made it. Injuries, trades, and a lack of development brought this draft down.
People forget, but at the start of the decade, we had one of the elite systems in the game. In 2003, partly due to this 2002 draft, our system was viewed as one of the elite systems on the pitching side, with some up and coming bats.
What’s my point? Hindsight is always 20/20. When judging anything, you need to take two snapshots – then and now. If the point is to criticize the draft, understand that this draft wasn’t bad. It was actually quite solid. If the point is that we have failed to develop talent, or that we perhaps misjudged some talent, that is certainly fair.
All I’m saying is, calling this a bad draft isn’t a fair assessment of the draft. A good draft still needs to be coupled with good development, health, and let’s face it, some luck, before said draftees play a role. Actually, I’ll go a step further. To my best recollection, in terms of “drafting”, of getting guys for value, of going after quality players in the draft, I’m pretty sure that most people gave the Cubs a good grade in regards to those actions.
by toonsterwu on Aug 24, 2009 1:21 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Hate to break it to you
but baseball is a results oriented business. As another poster pointed out, the 2005 draft got the scouting director fired. Of course, the PR Dept. will always spin the draft as a good one. I remember how they touted Mke Pawelek at the time – supposed to be one of the best picks in recent memory. A few 1st round picks like that will have you looking for a new job.
I'm not disagreeing with anything
It’s just, some people seem to be implying that these were bad picks at the time and that certainly wasn’t the case. People tend to forget that, during this decade, our system went from a high perch to falling down in the middle. Again, as I noted, did we misjudge talent? Definitely. Did we fail to develop? Without a doubt. Was I glad the Stockstills moved on? Heck yes
What I'm learning is
the importance of balancing a draft. Some pitchers. Some hitters. Middle infielders, flexible guys, lefties. This one looked way too pitching-heavy. If that works, great. But if you draft five pitchers early, expect two to leave there career in a doctor’s office, and another one to just miss.
If it works or not, I like drafting a outfielder that can hit with speed and a professional looking hitter of a middle infielder one/two. Then draft three pitchers, including one who can be a hitter if his pitching misses.
Well
The argument for a pitching heavy draft is that, if you feel like you scout correctly, then you hope that you’ll have a couple develop. This draft didn’t pan out that way. Here’s hoping the 08 draft turns out better. I think you draft based on talent at the start. A Wilken draft will build up our up-the-middle charts, with the idea that those guys can move to the corners if they can’t stick up there.
Stockstill
moved onto Baltimore later that year after drafting Pawelek. He wasnt fired!!!
You can't defend the drafting pattern of the Cubs pre 2007
You simply can’t. The results were absolutely horrendous. Which is therefore a MAJOR reason for why the Cubs cannot win a World Series. Even the Red Sox or Yankees have built their success on player development that has produced players that have filled the lineup card or were traded for other pieces (e.g., Hanley Ramirez being traded to Florida for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell).
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
again
If we’re judging the “Drafting” aspect, and not the player development aspect, the Cubs poor drafts were in the mid-part of this decade. It seems like people have short term memory – the Cubs system was one of the best in the majors at the start of the decade. It fell off due to poor drafting. To lump this draft, a “draft” that wasn’t bad on paper, and gave the system an injection of hope for a couple years, is a bit flawed.
Look, I’m not defending Stockstill, Hendry, or Wilken whomever. The fact is, a lot of people loved our system at the start of the decade. From around 2004-2006, questioning the drafting during that period, I’d agree with (but in all fairness, 2006, we were lacking a lot of top picks due to FA signings).
2006
Is far from over, lets just see how this one turns out despite the conditions without the drafts 2 thru 4.
Going down the list...
Injury, injury, injury, injury, injury, injury, injury, injury, injury, injury, injury…
Kind of sucked this draft saw a lack of impact players (although Hill had a really good year and a half or so), but a ton of those guys saw their careers go down the chute due to various injuries. It’s not like this was a draft full of guys who simply hit the wall in terms of talent relative to their competition.
FYI, I wasn't dissing Wells with that post
He’s been good this year, but we’ll see how he looks come next season.
by Outshined_One on Aug 24, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
IMPORTANT PIECE!
Randy Wells WILL be an important part of next year’s rotation! He was good this season. Hes a young pitcher who has the potential to do great things in the future.
Rolling the dice
The draft is always nothing but a gamble! Will he make the transitions from metal to wood bats? can this guy be effective against big league batters? this 2002 draft was a terrible gamble for the cubs! they got a total of 3 good players out of 4 first round picks! (none drafted in first round)
Interesting stuff, thanks.
FWIW, Rocky Cherry has been picked up by the Padres on a minor league deal.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
We still need to get him and Felix Pie on the same team.
You know, so Pie can bat for Cherry.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Argh - wasn't Cherry initially traded to the Orioles?
So close!
At the very least, we can hope the Baseball Godz will see to it that they face each other some day. Cherry v. Pie: Will Felix slice one down the line or come up empty at (on) the plate?
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Pie did PH for Cherry once in a spring training game.
So I do have one scorecard with that written on it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
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