Pinella riding it out with the veterans
With 40 games left in 41 days starting Tuesday, some of the struggling veterans may have seen their last day of down time, if not their last reprieve.''They're going to have to get it done,'' Piniella said. ''I'll get [the rookies] in as much as I can, but I'm going to
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1731046,CST-SPT-cub24.article
You could argue that this is how we got into the mess to begin with. The starting pitching has been rock-solid. As it was pointed out in another thread, if we score 3 runs a game, we take three of four in L.A.
PInella is determined that if the miracle -- and I think we can call it that by now -- is going to happen, it will happen with Soriano in LF, Bradley in RF and Ramirez at 3B.
So Fuld remains the hot bat and defender who gets in on the third day of a series. Fox is the super-sub bat.
If it clicks for Soriano, he is more than capable of dragging us to the playoffs -- assuming the Cardinals or the four teams in front of us for the Wild Card cooperate.
And if it doesn't click and Soriano remains a black hole in the lineup, then we have to start preparing ourselves for the idea that we're going to lose. We will not find Markinson. We will put on a show and we will lose huge.
To the polls!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I wrote yesterday...
… that the Cubs need Soriano to be the guy we had at the beginning of the year, and most of July, if they are to make any sort of move.
We all know that Soriano is a streak hitter, and can go on huge hot streaks, and then huge cold spells.
It’s time for one of his hot streaks. The Cubs have series with bad teams coming up. Might as well give it a shot.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Than we really have ZERO chance
Soriano has not hit since the Nats series 6 weeks ago and that was I believe his only time since April. He is DEAD weight at bat and in the field. He kills rallies. In my view he is WORSE than Miles right now because no one in their right mind ( save Lou) ever thinks Miles
will get a hit. Fox should get starts while he is hot , Fuld maybe two a week and ALWAYS in there in a defensive replacement by
the 8th if you get a lead. Dusty got ROASTED for relying on veterans and if he said that in the same situation almost everyone on this
list would want him run on of town on a rail. I am hoping Sori is injured, not because I hate him or wish him will but because it would explain a lot and give Lou an out to not use him. Bradley should probably sit once or twice a week and Fuld can play CF.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree
Soriano is just killing the Cubs, what is the difference having Jake in left or Sori? None. Jake is hitting the ball Sori is not, case closed.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
You both could have said...
… exactly the same thing about Soriano just before his hot streak started vs. the Nats.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Instead of waiting and hoping for a guy to hit a hot streak...
why you play the guy who is currently in one?
I haz comedy show on Fridays. Come out and support a fellow Cubs fan? If you do, I'll see what I can do about Aaron Miles: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 24, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
This is why...
we are 0-6 in the playoffs the past few years.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
One series since April ?
Sorry I am not willing to risk the itty bitty remaining shot we have at the post season on the guy most responsible for the Çubs
horrific hitting.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
More than one series.
Or did you forget that game-winning GS vs. Houston?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Come on...
Al really? i just find it hard to believe you still want Soriano in there. Tout the grand slam all you want, but it was a stat padder and 1 win.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
I tend to agree with Higs here, Al
The only merit I can see right now to playing Soriano is so that we don’t shatter what’s left of his confidence for 2010 and beyond.
If that’s the goal, fair enough, but it is not compatible with the 2009 Miracle.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I just have a hunch.
Nothing more. Put him in there, maybe he’ll get hot again. It’s happened more than once.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No, you can't.
I was one of those screaming for Soriano to sit back in June when he wasn’t hitting. That might have helped.
Now, I think he’s ready for a hot streak. A hunch is all it is. I could be wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
everyone was saying he was due in midjine
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Aug 24, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
june
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Aug 24, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
True
but IIRC, that was his only hit that game, he ended 1-5
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Aug 24, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I really don't think we can keep hoping for this guy to come around
And, why isn’t more stock put in the fact that when he goes on these cold streaks, and right now, his can be considered a streak of ice age like proportions, but when he goes cold, like he has this season, they could have avoided the losing record they had during his streak had they just pulled him and played someone who can hit. What’s better, someone who doesn’t hit, AT ALL, or someone who can hit, not for power mind you, but can consistently hit and play excellent defense? I’d go with the latter of the two because the former is just going to hurt you. It’s absolute insanity to keep waiting for Soriano to come around. To use a poker reference, it’s like being 2 away from a straight and the river is about to come up. There’s absolutely no hope of winning.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Aug 24, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed... as I said in another thread
I no longer know what this lineup can do.
I thought Soriano was a streak hitter who would get hot and carry us. I no longer know if that’s the case.
I thought Fontenot was a useful bat, capable of getting the hits at the right time. I no longer know if that’s the case.
I thought Soto was the future of this organization. Put him in at catcher for the next six or seven years and worry about something else. I no longer know.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You've really said why we are where we are
Soriano and Soto. Early in the season Bradley…… and injuries, specifically to Aram. I don’t think we can blame the season on Fontenot, I think we all expected him to be a complimentary player anyhow. But, the lack of production from Soriano and Soto, clearly two of our four big run producers from ’08, have killed the buzz we had after last year.
I think I reluctantly agree with Lou. We are paying big money for guys like Soriano to produce. He has to play but the use of Fox in left until he starts coming around is worth the try.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Yes, it could help Soriano to take a few games off if his knee is bothering him.
This is the perfect cover for the Manager and the star player, rest due to injury. Give Fox 3 games and then put Soriano back out there.
I found the tone of the article a bit odd in that it seemed to imply this heavy burden on big contract players to perform.
soriano
Fonzie would have gone 5 for 4 yesterday if he was hot. Fox only had four hits so go with the veteran.
by WhistlerWilliams on Aug 24, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
sorry
posted the above prematurely.
I thought it right to play Soriano and Bradley months ago when that was an issue and Lee when that was an issue early in the year. Simply, we could not win without production from them. Two of those guys turned it around and I hope Fonzie does also. But, it is getting late to rely on hopes. The only real option is get the guys on the field who are doing the job. Will Fuld’s career be comparable to Fonzie? Highly unlikely. However, it sure looks like we have the better team out there with Fuld and Fox getting regular at-bats.
by WhistlerWilliams on Aug 24, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I have to agree
as much as I love Sam Fuld, we need Soriano to be at his best to get the postseason. Gotta give it a shot!
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Aug 24, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
put in the rooks
soriano & milton bradley are overpaid and washed up, the new comers like fox, fuld, and baker have more than just the fans to please. They are younger and have more to play for at this point, and they’re consistent which we need at this point if we ever want to even touch the postseason this year. we’ve taken our chances on bradley and sori, but i think its time to give the rooks a fair chance, and quality time to prove themselves.
I point out again that...
… Fox and Fuld are 27. They’re not going to lead any team to the postseason, nor are they the future.
To give you an example, Fuld is only three years younger than Bradley.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Around here, "young" seems to mean "paid less"
That paid less part not only makes people see them as kids, it also makes them like them more.
If we traded or signed a player as flawed as Jake Fox, he would be hated.
by Wreckard on Aug 25, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Depends on what we traded or signed him for.
If you did that to provide a good bench bat and play a couple of positions on occasion, for not too much money or not too many good players given up, that’d be fine.
But to think of him as a savior is dead wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
yeah
sori kills in september but iD’d still prefer FOx or Fuld
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Aug 25, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
As much as I've been on him this year...
let’s face it, benching Soriano for Sam freaking Fuld is pretty silly. Yes, Sam’s had a nice little run. And yes, I love what he brings to the game — especially intangible wise. But let’s be realistic here. He’s Sam Fuld. Anyone who expects him to produce offensively is living in a bubble.
I think Al is getting at the same thing that I am here — that this team will go as far as Soriano goes. Time to step up, Sori. Stop being the failure you’ve been most of the year and start being what you can be.
Fox in LF
I’m going to give Soriano the benefit of the doubt. I actually think the knee has been bothering him more than he has admitted this year. If he’s still hurting, there’s no reason to think he can go on a hot streak, any more than I could go out and run a marathon.
If you want a hot streak, play Fox in LF every day for a couple weeks. After that, maybe Sori will have rehabbed enough that he can play again.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
I was so excited when I heard yesterday's lineup!!!
Not using using this lineup again would be absolute insanity. I don’t know about 4-EVA though. At least while it’s hot. There is no time left to wait for Soriano/Bradley to get their acts together. The Cubs have to make their move NOW.
The thought of Lou not sticking with this lineup made my stomach drop. The only change I’d make is to platoon Fontenot/Baker and Hill/Soto. All the excitement that I had from yesterday has just been deflated.
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
Agreed...
Until that lineup goes blank, or missing, i think you need to stick with what is hot. 3 runs is still not good enough, but Fox got it done and Fuld is doing some nice things.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Well, you just made the opposing case
For all the hoopla over Fox/Fuld, the Cubs still scored three runs.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I hate to say this...
But that was the most runs scored in the last 4 games.
I know i know, i am just saying we need to have a different look. Soriano is not going to return to last years form with 40 games left, it just wont happen. The season is running out. Sticking with the same guys day in and day out, who have not been succeeding, is the same reason we are 0-6 in the past 2 playoff appearances.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
That lineup only scored three runs
nothing to recommend using it again really
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 24, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
but we won, didn't we?
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Aug 24, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
not because of the offense
but because of the pitching. And Grabow almost screwed the pooch — we got very lucky.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
yes, we had that huge break too
However, I still like this lineup. It’s just a hunch of my own-a gut feeling. I can just feel the mommentum building. Like a rocket that is reving up and is about to take off. I don’t want to see them stop it in the midst of the countdown. That’s all.
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Aug 24, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
there's no way
we’re getting to the post season on Sam Fuld’s bat. It’s just not happening.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
How bout Fox's bat & Fuld's glove & speed
Use them wisely and we have a sliver of a chance because there is no way we are getting to post season on
Soriano’s bat.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
On what exactly ?
That Soriano will be nearly useless if he plays , sure.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
This.
What are our chances of making the playoffs anyway… less than 5%? Why not play the hot bats and see what happens.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 24, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Piniella...
…is really in a no win situation here.
On one hand, if he gives Soriano a chance to catch fire and he doesn’t, he will be lambasted for putting him in the lineup. On the other, if Soriano’s replacement can’t get it done, people will say he should have given Soriano a chance to go on one of his hot streaks.
The fact is, Soriano has a history of going on tears, and the rookies don’t have much history at all. No matter how you look at it, it is a real tough call to make.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Not really
Soriano is not in a slump, he is craptastic. Tell me any other important hitter who someone would intentionally walk in front of and LOAD THE BASES for him. That says it all to me.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has been bad...
…and I mean real bad, but I still say Piniella would be lambasted either direction he goes with this.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Not any worse than he has been for continuing to play him
Obviously it has not worked WITH Soriano so you might as well try something new.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Except that there's another option.
You can rest Sori every 3 or 4 games, rest all the other vets every 4 or 5 games and get a lot more Fox and Baker in there to see if they can help next season (not to mention this season).
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
that could get
Fox two starts a week. I do NOT want him in right field, especially in Wrigley. That lets Fox start for Sori and Rami. Baker IS the starting second baseman now. We don’t need to find ways to get him into the lineup. Then you use Fuld, I guess when Bradley or Dome need to sit, at least till Johnson comes back, not slated for the first week of September.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
if Soriano's bat
doesn’t come back, we’re not making it to the post season at all. Fuld is not someone you can ride into the playoffs on.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
How about Fox?
Soriano’s bat (and Soto’s) have damn near buried the season. We’re trusting them to dig it up?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
How about Fox?
He’s batted 7 times in the last 7 days. Lou clearly doesn’t see a way to play him regularly.
Soriano has a record. Fox doesn’t.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And how did the Cubs play in the last 7 days ?
LIKE CRAP and they could barely score any runs. We have 3/4 of a season of Soriano and it is NOT
working. If the Cubs have ANY chance you need to play Fox a lot more and use Fuld when needed. Soriano is NOT getting you to the post season , he is the single biggest reason Cubs are 7 games behind. If the season is toast then you absolutely play Fox & Fuld so see what they got for next year.
Drew I thought you said you were in favor of benching Soriano for a while ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was in favor of benching Soriano
for the Dodger series. I’m in favor of it if his knee is actually hurt.
This is new tho — it’s SORI’s fault the Cubs are 7 back? Ok.
We don’t get to the playoffs without Sori. You bench him now, you’re giving up.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Sori is pretty much resigned...
To the fact that we’re done this year:
“Two out of three years going to the playoffs isn’t bad”, says Soriano.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1730541,cubs-sep-082309.article
Sounds to me like he’s given up on this year already. Well Soriano, take your suck to the bench and let Jake Fox or Fuld play left.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Aug 24, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
well
I say we’re not done, and he needs to play.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
not up to him.
if Lou plays him, then he plays.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
So we have a LF who has given up
Yeah, THAT is conducive to coming back.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
well
I don’t know if we know he’s given up or not.
Neverthless, Sam Fuld’s scrappy little face-planting body isn’t gonna cut it.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
How about Fox
and his bat?
Forget Fuld. Not even Jessica wants Fuld to start every day.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Fox is a great guy
but I don’t see him carrying the team.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Do his home runs count for any less than Sorianos?
Fox has a higher OPS and OPS+ than Soriano did either of the past two seasons with the Cubs. Maybe he can keep that up, maybe he can’t. I don’t see how it could be so hard to get Fox 3 starts in LF and a start at 3B every week to find out.
you wanna sit
Soriano for half the games? And then sit Rami one of the other games?
No, thank you. Soriano and Ramirez have a record they can stand on. Fox is a rookie.
We have very little chance to make the post season anyway. But sitting Soriano is the way to make sure we have NO chance.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Ryne Sandberg and Ron Santo have records too
Want to start them?
I wouldn’t bench Rami, but I have no evidence Soriano will come back.
One of these slumps, he ain’t coming back from.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I'd play
Ryno over Miles any day of the week.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd play Ernie Banks over Miles.
And Ernie is 78 years old.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Everyone was a rookie once
At some point, the young kids have it and the old guys don’t. Cycle of life and all that stuff.
Hakuna Matata!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Giving Rami a rest every once in a while should be considered a good thing
He’s still an injury risk, still recovering from his shoulder DL stint, and he’s human. A day off from time to time would keep him fresh, no?
sure
but not in any amount that’s going to get Fox significant playing time.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
This is new tho — it’s SORI’s fault the Cubs are 7 back? Ok.
To be fair, he’s been about 4 wins worse than expected. It’s not the whole 7, but it’s a big chunk of it. It’s probably the single largest reason the Cubs have missed expectations (though there are many such reasons).
by Wreckard on Aug 24, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Solution? To what?
To this season? Any solution for this season involves miracles.
If Soriano’s poor play is something that can be solved in the off-season (i.e. if it’s an injury), then he’s going to be the starting left fielder next season anyway.
If the Cubs are looking to get rid of him in the off season, then there’s no reason to shut him down now, since there’s a chance he could rebuild some value by playing well.
If you’re looking for a miracle for this year, Soriano has shown in the past – as recently as this April – that he can go on hot streaks so hot that he can single handedly carry a team.
There’s no scenario where it makes sense to shut down Soriano for the year, other than one where he needs major surgery.
Would you package Soto with Soriano
if it could unload his entire contract?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Yes but I don't think that's realistic
Soriano’s owed an awful lot of moneys. The only way he gets unloaded is in a straight up trade for Barry Zito, or something similarly horrific.
Barry Zito's contract may be atrocious, but every team needs a 4th-5th starter
Currently, Soriano is a net-negative at a position where most teams have one of their best bats.
That's fair.
And I’m sure that, no-trade clauses aside (which make the move impossible anyway) the Giants would probably prefer Zito for exactly that reason.
Vernon Wells probably would have been a better “horrific” contract to cite.
Understood
I didn’t mean to nitpick, because all such contracts are things we hope not to have.
I’m just particularly unhappy that our biggest contractual albatross is at the position on the field where it would probably be easiest to find an impact replacement. If he could play a passable 2B or CF, it wouldn’t hurt so bad.
How about
missing Rami for 50 games? That’s gotta be more of an impact.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Chicken and egg
If Soriano had been hitting when Rami went down chances are the Cubs would have
done a whole lot better. Rami was a terrible accident, Soriano has just been awful nearly the entire year.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
IIRC the loss of Ramirez cost about 2.5 wins
To put it in perspective, we replaced Ramirez with players of 0 or negative value for 2 months. For Soriano, he’s essentially been replaced with a player of negative value for the entire season.
if it brings the Cubs three runs per game
there is no post season this year
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 25, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Pitching won the day not the new lineup
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 25, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
3 runs was as many as we scored in the first 3 games COMBINED.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I
saw a stat somewhere that said the Cubs win 75% of the games hill is in
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Aug 25, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
I sorta like the Fold/Fox combo. For the most part Soriano and Bradley have put the Cubs in the position that they are in now. If this was game 60 I would say put Bradley and Soriano back in the lineup, however this long into the season I don’t have any confidence in those two to all of sudden turn it on. Sure injuries have played a part, but the Cubs offense has been the root of there issues. For 120 games now, Sori and Bradley have for the most part been below average, Fox and Fuld add a different type of energy, at least that is how I view it when I watch the games.
For Lou to come out and make this statement is no surprise, however I think Fox and Fuld have a legitimate case to be on the field.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Fox
Should be in LF until further notice. Soriano needs to know he needs to improve or he can sit and count his money. If he’s hurt go on the DL. He is bringing NOTHING to this team right now.
We've been riding our "horses"...
Like Soriano and Bradley up to this point, and what has it gotten us? We’re 8 games back in the division, and the season is arguably lost. Why not play the hot bats right now in Fuld and Fox? Bradley is in a 2-23 slump, and Soriano has been just awful and now may have a knee injury.
Play the “F Troop” and see what happens.
Someday we'll go all the way...
Team fit
Teams ahead in the Division and in the wildcard race are in the driver’s seat. So, It might be too late to argue whether the X players or the Y players should play for purposes of getting into postseason. Take postseason out of the picture and I would like to see young players as long as they can still make a contest out of it. I don’t see much beyond Fox and Fuld that instills alot of confidence whether it means turning things around or just winning as much as possible.
Lou shows he understands the notion of regression to the mean
Poll participants show they do not.
If a miracle is going to happen in 2009, it’s certainly not going to come from the bat of Sam freaking Fuld.
by Wreckard on Aug 24, 2009 1:11 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It's time for him to start regressing
if he’s going to.
And at some point, a player’s mean changes. If all we had to do was compile an average year and just wait for those numbers to happen, then put Andre Dawson in LF and worry about something else.
The question is whether you believe 2009 is a fluke or a trend.
If you believe fluke, then yes, get him in there and let him figure it out. If you believe trend, then it’s time for someone else to finish out the season.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
A single season of performance...
should not be used to the complete exclusion of the rest of a player’s career.
I strongly suspect Soriano has been bothered by a bad knee all season. In that case, I’d rest him. Otherwise, I’d play him in hopes he can hit his way out of the funk he’s in.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Aug 24, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
So now we're saying that
80 percent of Soriano is better than 100 percent of Fuld/Fox?
Awaiting the stats for that…
If the guy is hurt, get him out of there. At some point, you can wait for Godot all you want, but the stats won’t come back.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Do you really want the numbers?
Fox is probably better than an injured Soriano, but not Fuld.
The point is, and al was right on this… the only way this season is NOT over is if this team goes on a ridiculous 20-2 type run. As bad as Soriano has been the chances of him being part of a lineup that goes 20-2 is much higher than they are for a lineup with Fox or Fuld in it.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Aug 24, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Now vs. next year
Right, the only realistic chance for this year is for Soriano/Bradley to not only return to career norms but vastly exceed them for a short burst. Or, you conclude it ain’t gonna happen this year and gather some data for next year.
Fox is actually the whole reason for the article
The Fuld love took the thread in another direction.
The main point of the article was that Fox had a great day and too bad, because Lou trusts Soriano more.
So if Fox is better than an injured Soriano, play Fox.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
and
it’s not even a whole season yet.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
You think Soriano’s going to hit .280 for the year? I’ll bet you $50,000 that doesn’t happen.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 25, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Most unbiased observers
believe that our playoff hopes are gone. If you agree to that conclusion, you must plan for next year. Now I happen to think both Bradley and Soriano will be back. If that happens, we must continue to find a way to get as much as we can out of their presence. To do that, they must understand they need to give 150% over the winter to come back in 2010 as greatly improved players.
So we have to decide how to motivate them to improve. My belief is that we give them major bench time. Tough love. The approach of hoping they get better by playing most every day has not worked for Soriano. He has shown absolutely no improvement in his play and, particularly, his approach at the plate. Perhaps the embarrassment of watching Fuld and Fox start the majority of days will motivate him to change. Can I guarantee that will work. Hell no. But I do know what hasn’t worked. It’s foolish to continue to believe Sori will suddenly get hot. In fact, if he does have a hot streak, it would probably be the worst thing that could happen. It would simply reinforce his belief that he doesn’t need to make any changes in his game.
Bradley is a different case. He has made significant strides to improve the 2nd half. I happen to think he’ll be a reasonable positive for us the remainder of his contract. Keep him at #2. In fact, I’d like to see him tried at #1. He is a switch hitter which would give us a consistent player at the top. Try Fukudome at #2.
One last thing. Tell Soto that if he comes to spring training overweight next year, he’ll be playing in Peoria.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
How can you think they're not motivated enough?
Particularly Bradley! That guy plays as hard as any other regular starter on the team.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Aug 24, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Shawn, Shawn, Shawn.
Don’t you realize that all success in baseball is a function of effort? And that effort is measured in unnecessary diving?
It doesn’t take an expert to see they’re lazy, just look at them.
How could I forget...
Everyone that has an underperforming season just isn’t trying hard enough. That’s the only way to explain it, so benching them for motivational purposes is clearly the best and only remedy.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Aug 24, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
How about benching them because they aren't contributing?
And we don’t have time to wait?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
There is also
a lazy mental approach or do you disagree with that also because it can’t be measured.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
So he’s not physically lazy, he’s just mentally lazy? What does that even mean?
If I have to explain the obvious
you wouldn’t understand the explanation.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
Please do. I would love to hear not only what mental laziness is but how Soriano exhibits it.
Is he not doing Suduko puzzles enough? Maybe he should he be doing more free reading?
I have no interest
in doing your work for you. Perhaps you’ve heard of google. There are 4.5M hits for mental laziness.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
There you go again
expecting me to do your homework. I don’t enable mental and physical sloth.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
You are right
Bradley does play hard. I should have been more specific. I meant Soriano must be motivated to change his approach to hitting and Soto to change his approach to eating and weight training.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
Soriano has been abysmal this season...
but he’s a better player than Sam Fuld. Period. I love everything about Fuld — his competitive nature, fielding prowess, background story, intelligence, and playing style. That said, he has 0 chance of being as good as Soriano can be.
This team needs to “right” Soriano. He’s due so much money over the next 4 years I believe his ability to regain his form from last year is the single most important thing for the near future of this franchise. Suggesting he should be benched is not only the wrong move for this season, it’s the wrong move for the future.
That said, if Soriano has been bothered all year by his bum knee (I suspect he has) then I’d put him on the DL. At this point, it’s time to start planning for the future. And no, Sam Fuld should not be a starter in that future.
As far as Bradley goes, anyone that is still suggesting he should be benched simply hasn’t been paying attention. he had a bad series against the Dodgers but has been one of the Cubs’ best players since the All Star break.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Aug 24, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I think everyone knows I am the biggest Fuld fan on BCB
and I have never suggested he could replace Soriano and I even realize he needs to fight to stay on the roster. What I am begging for
is that Soriano not play much. We have spent nearly the ENTIRE season waiting for him to get out. There is NO time left. You play Fox
and see how it goes. You use Fuld to replace Fox defensively in the late innings and to spell Milton or Dome twice a week. Please stop this phony argument that it is Soriano Vs Fuld and then saying we HAVE to play Soriano because we can’t possibly win without him because we can’t win with him. Let him rest now and get ready for next year.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thank you, Jessica
The article actually was about FOX and how he will still be benched even though he went 4-4 and was pretty much the offense Sunday.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You and I don't often agree.
But I am 100% with you here. This is exactly the right thing to do. If Soriano is healthy, he has to play. Bradley, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes, this
He’s due so much money over the next 4 years I believe his ability to regain his form from last year is the single most important thing for the near future of this franchise. Suggesting he should be benched is not only the wrong move for this season, it’s the wrong move for the future.
That approach
has worked very well so far that there is no sane reason to change.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
Are you guaranteeing
a Soriano rebound? Because at his present level of play, Fuld is clearly a better player. And while Soriano has a much higher upside, if he continues to hit like has this season, the question is how to improve his performance. Playing him has not gotten him out of his funk. Why then suggest we continue the same failed policies of the past? It is my opinion that he needs a strong dose of reality. Either he changes his approach to hitting or he sits.
And while Bradley has clearly improved since the All Star break, most of that is as a LH batter. His OBP splits are dysfunctional, ,278 as a LH and .436 as a RH. Bradley was brought in as a full time player and he needs to perform better from the left side where the majority of at bats are available.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
nobody
can guarantee a rebound. But our best chances at one are with Sori. Besides, if he’s lazy and unmotivated, why the hell would he care if he sat?
Bradley is fine.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
How can a baseball team
afford to play someone who clearly is hurting the team. Sori isn’t in a slump. He’s absolutely lost at the plate. It’s become a joke when he’s at bat. Every non-Cub announcer knows the book on him. Yet Sori doesn’t change.
If he were a pitcher who constantly gave up HR’s in the 9th, would we continue using him as closer? It just makes sense to me that we need to change our approach to fixing him. Playing him every day has not worked and there is no sane reason to believe it suddenly will begin to make him a better player.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
If he were a pitcher who constantly gave up HR’s in the 9th, would we continue using him as closer?
Maybe that’s not an example you want to use.
If we bench Sori, we might as well give up. We’re not gonna be carried by Sam Fuld or Jake Fox.
I think it’s interesting that no one has brought up Rami’s little slump. In the last 7 days, he’s only hitting .227.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Um that is EXACTLY the example you want to use
Lou FINALLY realized Gregg was killing us. Sori is not in a LITTLE SLUMP , he is DEAD. Is he going to get a magic pill.
The guy gets walked in front of him to load the bases and all he has to do is hit a fly ball and he can’t. There is nothing more to say. You let Fox play the next few games and see how it goes. Makes no sense to bench a guy after he goes 4 for 4 which is more hits than Soriano had in his last SIX games in which he STARTED.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
well. I will say this — I think if Soriano is injured, he needs to sit. But to just decide to sit him against the Nats and Mets… to me that’s a non-starter.
I wish there was a place to play Jake Fox. I really do.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't believe Sori is injured
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I thought he was earlier in the year, but I don't believe he is now.
He’s just in a monster slump.
And it’s just about time for him to come out of it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
he is
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Aug 24, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Reed Johnson, on the disabled list since July 30 with a fractured left foot, apparently won’t be back until early September. X-rays taken late last week showed that the bone had not fused as well as hoped.
Dammit. We could use him.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the clarification...
…but I still don’t think it has anything to do with his hitting woes.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
well
because he says it only bothers him when he runs? I dunno.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
i remember BB saying soriano uses his legs for a lot of his power
or something
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Aug 25, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
So, his legs are injured and that robs the power.
What part if him is injured that provides the contact?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Drew
I think the bottleneck is over what will work and what won’t. You claim if we bench Soriano, we might as well give up. That is where i disagree. We have tried playong him through this and that obviously hasn’t worked. I merely suggest another approach. Challenge him by benching him. It’s done all the time to motivate players. Why not give it a try?
And the difference between ARam’s slump of 7 days and Soriano’s collapse for the great majority of the season is so significant that I cannot even attempt a comparison.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Aug 24, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
all I'm saying
is that Rami hasn’t exactly torn it up since he’s come back.
I don’t see how sitting Soriano “challenges” him. What it does is guarantee that when he comes in to pinch hit, he’s going to be seeing the ball even worse then he is now.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Aram
has a ops of .926. Sori is .725. Are you really suggesting they should be treated the same when they slump?
Tell me why you refuse to try another plan to make Soriano better. Playing him every day hasn’t worked. What would you suggest?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
I would suggest
exactly what I’ve suggested. He’s not going to get any better on the bench. All this talk about how he’s lazy or not mentally fit or whatever is BS. I believe he will return to his career norms, and if we’re lucky, he’ll start doing it tomorrow, rather then in March.
As far as Rami goes, all I’m saying is that he’s not tearing it up. If he were hitting the way he was a few weeks ago, it might be different now. He didn’t exactly have a stellar series against the Dodgers. And yes, I know he’s recovering from his injury still.
That’s it. If you pin our playoff hopes on Jake Fox, then we’re done.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
No, the playoff hopes
should be pinned where they always should have been — on Lee, Ramirez and the starting pitching.
But Soriano is just in the way. He is a negative player right now. He can’t be hidden in the lineup or in the field.
Fox won’t carry the team on his back like Soriano can.
But he also won’t drag it down like Soriano can.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 24, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And if you believe
that a resurgence of Soriano is imminent, be prepared for a long wait. But hey, I would have sat his butt down a long time ago. And that’s not BS.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Aug 24, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You talk like we're in contention
If the Cubs were 1-2 games out of first then that would be a different discussion.
Fuld or Fox might be better than Soriano at this point, but not more than 1-2 wins tops over the remaining month of baseball. That’s not enough to work the miracle necessary to put the Cubs back in contention.
If he were a pitcher who constantly gave up HR’s in the 9th, would we continue using him as closer?
Apples, oranges. Relief pitching is a much cheaper and more volatile resource than corner outfielders.
Yet Sori doesn’t change.
Oh you’re one of those fans, the kind who thinks they can infer what goes on behind closed doors simply by watching on TV. It’s equally likely that Soriano’s problem this year has been too much change – you hear all the time about hitters who make some fundamental change to their approach and suddenly can’t hit worth a like (see Matt Holiday earlier this year).
We have no way of knowing what Soriano has and has not done, or what health issues he has that may be interfering with his ability to function as a hitter.
If the Cubs are done YOU PLAY THE KIDS
You try to find out NOW if Fox is real or not. The alternative is having Fox ride the bench and trying to figure out NEXT year. The other post suggesting you play Soriano because you want to showcase him for a trade is literally too silly to respond to. If the Cubs have a chance Fox with some help from Fuld offer the best chance of doing it, if they have no chance then you REALLY want to play them and find out what they are made of. How will 6 more weeks of Soriano sucking help him or the Cubs.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are few "kids" worth playing.
Fox’s issue isn’t his hitting, it’s his defense and finding him a position isn’t something that’s going to happen in one month at this level – that’s going to take a winter of instructional league play.
Getting Soriano on track, as Shawn eloquently suggested above, is crucial to the future of this franchise. Like it or not, we’ve dedicated over 10% of our entire annual payroll to him, at one of the most important positions on the field (in terms of offensive expectations). As he goes in the next couple of years, so go we.
Of course hitting is an issue for Fox
If you really thought it would hit like that ALL THE TIME you would play him anyway but you don’t know. If you seriously think the Cubs are toast this year you absolutely need to play Fox and Fuld NOW to see how they do at the MLB level ( not suggesting Fuld every day but enough to see what he can do). Soriano may be crucial to the Cubs future but not THIS YEAR. What possible good is done letting him continue to play every day. How many more times will managers intentionally walk a batter to get to him ? How can that help him ? Let him rest and figure out what is wrong.
I assume everyone who wants Soriano to play because the season is done but we can’t risk hurting our future
also wants Rami off the roster NOW . I mean don’t risk one more at bat with him , let him have surgery or whatever but surely he should not be playing.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Fox and Fuld aren't really prospects.
They’re both 27 and probably as good as they’re ever going to be — which is, platoon or bench players.
Do NOT give up on this year. If the Cubs are to do anything the rest of this year, a lot of it rests on the back of Soriano, whether you like it or not.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I will predict right now...
the Fox will out OPS Soriano for the next 5 years.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
With the provision that Fox actually gets to play baseball for the next 5 years.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Jake may not be young, but he had a pretty steady (albeit slow) progression through the minors in which he improved every year. He may be close to his prime right now, but if that prime is a .900 OPS with defensive skills that qualify him to play in LF, there are a lot of teams that would find a way to make that happen more often.
He'll get to play
Just maybe in the AL
Few of us truly think Fox is a long-term solution at LF. But we believe, if there is any hope this season, he is the short-term solution.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 24, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If I thought that Al I WOULD give up
What possible indication do you have that Soriano can change THIS YEAR. He is so far beyond bad. His last hit was really an error that just dropped between 3 fielders. If you continue to play him now you ARE conceding the season. I think Fox might well be a starter but it really doesn’t matter , what matters IF you think there is a chance you play him and you give Fuld some more playing time. There is simply NO reason to believe that Soriano will change this season. I would reverse what Lou does. Start Fox and let Soriano pinch hit in the late innings and play once or twice a week.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is Al
Some of us think continuing to watch Soriano flail IS giving up.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I don't understand why people think Fox is a bench player
All he has done is hit. If we play him the rest of the year we find out if he can keep it up for a long period of time. This baffles me that so many people are lobbying for Soriano he can’t hit a curveball its a joke to watch the guy hit. He isn’t going to rebound he is done.
because this isn't the AL
and he can’t DH.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
he plays just fine in LF
way better then Soriano and he has been fine at 3b not great but fine. All you guys do is hold onto something like he is a bad defensive player and never let it go. When he played third he was serviceable. And Soriano is the worst OF in the league as said by Bob Brenly “you could throw a dart into the cubs dugout and find a better defensive OF then Soriano”
way better than Soriano?
I don’t think so.
Brenly was using something called “hyperbole”.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
He may have been
but it doesn’t mean its not true
What about regression to mean?
Don’t the stats say that all we have to do is let him figure it out? We don’t have to “get him on track”
The worry is that his mean has changed. That his high water mark is lower now.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean
No pun intended.
It’s exceedingly rare for players who have shown the ability to sustain success in the majors experience huge drop-offs in production. Your worrying an extremely unlikely outcome. I’m not saying it’s not possible, just that it’s not likely.
I mean his mean
is what we can expect.
I agree that if Soriano is indeed still capable of producing at his previous level, we are in for a treat. (Although it will likely still be a down year)
My worry is that he is no longer capable.
Sadly, we really won’t know until 2010 and maybe not until 2011.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Well this here, I think, is the point most worth talking about.
And it’s similar to the question we had about DLee earlier in the season. People wanted to say DLee was in decline, when what they really meant was that he had fallen off the cliff and would never be productive again.
Soriano’s last two years were better than his 2003-2005. Physically, he doesn’t look like he’s in worse shape than before, although there are questions about what shape his legs are in. Yes, you’d think the league could figure him out when he’s going bad, but that was true in 2007-2008, too, and he always bounced back. What about Soriano has caused this traumatic fall in production?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
So you're suggesting
we play Soriano despite his horrible play. And I don’t presume to know if he’s injured or just plain stubborn or past his prime. However, there is one thing that I know conclusively. He is terrible right now and he has been for the great majority of the season.
Your solution. Play him until he gets it right. Yeah, that’s been working very well. Let’s keep doing what has failed all year. Sound approach to problem solving.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Aug 24, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's the only thing
that has a chance of working. You don’t get better at playing baseball by not playing baseball.
Everyone said this about Derrek Lee. Everyone said this about Milton Bradley. They suck! Bench them! They suck!
Well, Derrek Lee didn’t start hitting again by riding the pine. He got better by going out there every day and trying to hit the baseball. Same thing with Milton Bradley.
And that’s what will happen with Soriano.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Derrek LEE was hurt and Milton Bradley worked out his problems
Soriano has been bad all year and will not work out his problems.
and why
are you so sure? And why should we simply believe you?
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
So you are certain
that your way is the only way to get him fixed. You really want to suggest that? Then there is no reason to discuss alternatives.
BTW, would you care to provide any empirical evidence of this one and only cure?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
yes
it’s the only way he gets fixed. It’s the only way ANYONE who is playing badly gets fixed — by playing more.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Milton Bradley took time off
to work on his swing and got much better your point proved wrong
Milton Bradley
was benched while Lou worked with him on problems Lou saw. You think Lou wouldn’t do that with Sori if he saw a problem?
Also, Bradley didn’t come right off the bench hitting .400, either. It took him time to get back into hitting by PLAYING BASEBALL.
If Lou saw something wrong with Sori’s swing, he’d do something about it.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
You have no idea if Lou sees something or not
the thing is Soraino has been allowed to whatever he wants since being a cub. He had no business being the leadoff hitter for the last three years finally Lou changed that but Soriano complained. He would complain more if he was benched for working on his swing.
theres nothing wrong with sorianos swing
its his inability to tell the difference between a slider and a fast ball and his inability to catch up to fastballs when he does get one
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Aug 24, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
His swing is still just as smooth as ever.
He has absolutely no idea where the pitch will be.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
That's right...
…you can have the prettiest swing in the world, but it won’t matter much if your not recognizing the pitch quick enough.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
That's beyond incomprehensible
Don’t bench slumping hitters. How do you feel about slumping pitchers? Throw them on the mound as often as possible?
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
you cannot get better at playing baseball by not playing.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Only partially true
Extra work in the cages and with the hitting coaches while getting some rest for legs that may or may not be injured could be better than starting regularly.
Plus, if you choose to start him in games where he has favorable matchups only, that can help to get his confidence and stroke back in order.
no
I’m suggesting that we DON’T have time to wait. He needs to pick it up and do it now. That’s the only way we get to the post season. We’re not doing it on Fuld or Fox.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks for bringing some perespective to the Soriano bashing
that seems so popular these days.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 25, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I think we have to look at each player on a case-by-case basis...
1. Sori: Since the purge of last year’s leadership (DeRo, Woody, and Hank White), Lou has more or less anointed Sori as a team leader — even if Sori is not ideally suited to the task. When a manager benches a leader who is accustomed to playing every day, he risks having that leader turn the entire clubhouse against him. Lou may have made some questionable moves this past season and off-season, but he isn’t a total idiot. Besides, Sori is undoubtedly going to be back next year, and any positives that can come out of the last 40 games will help him for 2010.
2. Dome: He has a NTC and he has been better this year than in 2008, though I think he has firmly established that he is not a #5 hitter — just an expensive platoon table-setter. It is possible that Dome would waive his NTC to go to a team with a strong Asian fan base (e.g., Seattle) if the Cubs asked, so it is important to maximize his potential value by not benching him against RHP.
3. Gameboard: I don’t think he has a NTC, and any chance of trading him hinges on how he finishes the season. Some pine time will probably help him avoid nagging injuries, but he needs to be in there most of the time.
4. DLee: He is your other leader, so you can’t risk benching him either. Besides, he has been the Cubs’ best hitter for most of the season. Benching him at all while the Cubs’ WC hopes are alive would alienate the fanbase.
5. Ramy: He needs to be in there for obvious reasons as long as WC hopes are alive. I would favor shutting him down early if the Cubs fall out of the race, especially if he needs surgery.
6. Geo: I think he has to play. It’s the only way the Cubs can determine if he will go down as a “one year wonder”, or if he has the mental and physical toughness to bounce back next year. Since we basically know that Koyie Hill isn’t an everyday catcher, the Cubs need to find out about Geo before the off-season shopping period begins.
7. Riot: He probably needs more down-time since he tends to wear down. It’s also in the Cubs’ best interest to not let him pile up the stats before arb season. The issue is that the Cubs don’t have a young prospect SS to put there, so they will be wasting their time with Miles or Blanco (though Blanco might have a future as a 25th man UI).
8. LBR: Lou figured out in 2007 that LBR had a swiss cheese swing and was only effective against certain types of RHPs — that is why he was used so selectively in 2008. He has basically demonstrated that he is not an everyday player or even a solid platoon player, and he has limited usefulness as a UI since he can’t play SS or OF. At best, he might make a good PH (a la Daryle Ward). If he is a super-two, he’s a non-tender candidate. There is no real reason to play him other than as a PH, and there would be some value in optioning him to Iowa to cut his service time if the Cubs want him back next year.
9. Miles: The ultimate in sunk costs, it makes no sense to give him any ABs unless everyone else is hurt. And he will be back next year…. … ouch!
10. Baker: The knock on him in Colorado was that he had a 3B glove and a 2B bat. The Cubs need to give him extended PT at 2B to determine if his glove will be OK there on an everyday basis — especially since he will be arb-eligible.
11. K. Hill: He is what he is — a very useful backup C. He will be arb-eligible, so the Cubs risk having to pay him more than he is worth.
12: Fuld: He is what he is — a very useful 4th OF. He will never have the stick to be an everyday player, so he doesn’t need a ton of ABs the rest of the season. Just use him as a 4th OF.
13. Hoffpauir: He is what he is — a 4A 1B who can be effective in the ML in short spurts. He might have a future as a PH, but the Cubs don’t need both him and LBR in that role.
14. Fox: The Cubs really need to determine his best position during fall instructional league or winter ball. His real value is his bat, and very few guys can maintain any consistency with the stick while being shuffled around the diamond. (If it were that easy, DeRo wouldn’t be nearly as valuable as he is.) I would like to see him get the 3B ABs if Ramy is shut down early.
15. Andres Blanco: he is what he is — a good field, no hit SS. He would certainly be a candidate to be a UI next season (particularly if the Cubs eat Miles’ contract), but he doesn’t really need ABs the rest of the season.
16. RJ: he is a FA, and I think that $3M is way too pricey for a guy whose best use is as a RHB platoon OF. Unless the Cubs want to re-sign him, there isn’t much reason to give him any ABs except to protect Dome against LHP.
Among the SPs, I think there is a very real chance that the Cubs won’t be able to afford Rich Harden next season, so they need to figure out whether either Sean Marshall or Gorzo will be able to handle the #5 spot. Marshall will be arb-eligible, and Gorzo might be a super-two. They also need to find a shrink and a personal trainer for Z.
Among the RPs, I think it is safe to assume that Gregg won’t be back. The burning question that the Cubs have to answer is: is either Guzman or Mármol a legitimate closer? FA closers tend to be very expensive and the Cubs don’t have that many trade chips, so they need to give those guys a trial by fire.
Looking at it this way, Lou really doesn’t have much choice except to play his veterans.
Sorry for being so long-winded…
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Aug 24, 2009 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
All of the above is an excellent analysis.
The fact that if Lou comes back, he comes back to manage a team more than likely inclusive of all of Soriano, Lee, Bradley, Fukudome, Ramirez, Zambrano, & Dempster has this finish about more than just this season.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
If this is true, expect the same result
If Bradley and Soriano and starting in the OF for the Cubs next year, this team will struggle mightly to be in the pennant race come August, just like this year.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Each of these players has a very large contract with a no trade clause.
With the sale finalizing, there is no guarantee any of the budgetary restraints will be lifted.
Of the group above, the only sure tradeable without eating contract dollars are Lee, Ramirez & Zambrano. The three who just happen to be producing.
My prediction is the Cubs will offer Arbitration to Harden, Gregg & Grabow. Harden will decline. Wells and Marshall will be counted on to fill out the rotation with Z, Dempster, and Lilly. The Ricketts will open the purse enough to bolster the bullpen with another closer candidate and sign another utility guy to join the eight headed second base platoon.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Bradley's contract isn't "very large"
I’m not sure why people keep saying that. People see 8 figures in a vacuum, not in the context of baseball. He’s the 9th highest paid player on the team for crying out loud.
He also doesn’t have a NTC.
Gameboard's contract is very large for a guy who:
1. Plays a COF (i.e., power required) position, and his defense isn’t GG caliber.
2. Is a dud as a middle of the order hitter and is now occupying a spot (#2) that normally goes to a lower cost up-the-middle player.
3. Plays for the team that plays the highest number of day games, yet has a lot of trouble finding fly balls in the sun and seemingly hasn’t learned how to use flip-downs.
4. Plays for a large market, large media team, yet handles the media very poorly.
5. Has a body with a lot of chronic injuries (both knees, both hamstrings, one wrist, etc.), yet has not learned the fine art of playing hurt. (Note that there is a huge difference between “playing hurt” and “playing injured”. A player with chronic issues that can’t play through them with reasonable effectiveness isn’t earning his salary.)
6. Is supposed to be valuable because he is a switch-hitter with power, though he is only effective power-wise from one side of the plate. (Obviously, this is mostly on Jim Hendry for not figuring it out before signing him.)
7. Complains about being “on an island” in the clubhouse, yet doesn’t seem to take the initiative in making friends on the team. Most of the writers who have access to the clubhouse write that Gameboard has caused “issues” in the clubhouse, though none that I know of has called him an outright “cancer”.
8. Has worn out his welcome with every team in two years or less.
9. Is being out-produced by the other COFs in his FA class who signed for similar or less money (Dunn: 1.001 OPS, Ibañez .929, Abreu .849, Andruw .811, Gameboard .766). Even Dome is at .854.
Other than that, it’s a great deal…
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
And yet despite all that he's on pace to be worth what he's being paid this year
I realize you can barely resist your frothing need to attack the guy at every turn, and most of your post is filled with such silly irrelevant crap that I’m not even going to bother giving it the treatment it deserves, though I suppose none should be surprising given your username. Milton did indirectly cost us His Holiness after all.
None of what you said that backs up the idea that his contract is “very large”. After this season he’ll be owed $20M for two seasons. He plays quality outfield defense and provides, at worst, high-OBP offense. His slugging is statistically likely to rebound – in fact, at his current pace he should finish pretty close to his career norms. In other words, he has a low number of years committed for a moderate amount of money, and still provides positive value on both sides of the ball.
I realize you can come up with a million reasons you don’t like him, but my point wasn’t that he’s ruggedly handsome enough for someone here to take their mancrush on him to the username-creating level. If I had, I can see why you’d want to pipe up on the subject.
I’m simply refuting the idea that the contract is “very large” by even the stretchiest of definitions.
I erred. I had looked at Cot's
a few weeks ago and walked away believing he had a NTC. I looked again and it wasn’t there.
The foundation of my comments including Bradley in the mix was more my belief he had NTC rights.
All said, I still don’t think he’s tradeable (without eating part of the contract) after showing no power this year.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Maybe part but I'd be surprised if it was more that 25-30%
I agree that I don’t think anyone would value him at $10M / 2 years after this year, barring a serious breakout in September.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if someone would take him for $12-15M.
If the team has to eat 30%, what he provides is pretty valuable
and certainly worth at least $7M per year. Anyway, Bradley’s, Ramirez’, Lee’s, and Z’s contract aren’t the concerns, to me.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I agree.
Fans have a tendency to lop Bradley’s contract in with Soriano’s, which is in an entirely different league.
All the players you listed are producing close enough to what they’re paid that they’re not all that bad. Besides, when you look at the free agent options in right field next season things look pretty grim.
pete's sake
not this again.
7. Complains about being "on an island" in the clubhouse, yet doesn’t seem to take the initiative in making friends on the team. Most of the writers who have access to the clubhouse write that Gameboard has caused "issues" in the clubhouse, though none that I know of has called him an outright "cancer".
Because the writers know better then the players? Because the players all say they like him.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Good to see you posting again. You are sorely missed.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
If you'll help me finish my project,
I’ll be here more often. :-)
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
¿Qué sabe del UNIX, CGI, y Perl?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
¿Me enseña a hablar español?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Very good analysis
The four guys who really need extended playing time for evaluation are Fox, Baker, Soto, and Gorzo. Once they fall far enough back (IMHO if they are still 8 back on Sunday night, that’s more than enough), it’s time to shut down both Ramirez and Soriano, and really slow down Wells (limit him to 162 IP), Guzman and Theriot.
I’d also like to see Stevens, Patton, and Shark rotate the 7th and 8th inning RH duties in September, and see what we have. Especially for Patton, where this has been a lost season.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 24, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Not Shark
Send him back down, and leave him down until he’s developed another pitch
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Aug 24, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd agree
He has to develop an out pitch, or he’s never going to succeed in the majors.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 24, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
The down escalator for Shark shouldn't stop in Des Moines
Let him figure out a new pitch in Tennessee.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Lou anointed Soriano as the leader?
Where did you come up with that fantasy?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 25, 2009 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
There was a story about this
in late April in the Trib. (The S-T might have said something similar.) Basically, Lou was asked about clubhouse leadership since DeRo and Woody were gone. Lou said that he expected Sori to fill that leadership void. The writer (Sully, I think) added that Sori did seem to be taking more initiative in the clubhouse, and Sori was quoted as saying something like “I don’t mind the extra responsibility. I will embrace it.” Of course, in April Sori was hitting. I’m not sure if Sori can lead right now…
It should be noted that Sori has, from what I’ve read, always been very popular among his teammates. (I have especially read that about his stops in Texas and DC.) What Lou doesn’t seem to understand is that there is a vast difference between being liked and being respected.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
We should also consider Lou telling the media
he expects Sori to fill a leadership void in no way means Lou was really counting on Sori to do anything in that regard.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
It seems altogether possible
that Lou doesn’t think player leadership is important at all.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Sori is a team leader ?????
You have GOT TO BE KIDDING. Even Lou is not THAT clueless. Look for what is worth I like Soriano but as I keep saying something is CLEARLY WRONG WITH HIM this year. It may well be that he has had leg injury he mistakenly believes he can play through. Soriano is no more of a team leader than Sosa. He has been and can again be a very good player but if you don’t bench a guy when the other team is intentionally walking the guy in front to load the bases then you are saying he is more important than the team and more important than winning. Fox and do a lesser degree Fuld absolutely have to get more playing time to keep the Cubs slim hopes alive and if they die you must play them to see what they have. Fuld has about 70 MLB at bats so he is not even the 4th outfielder if you don’t see how he plays over time. Fox may be the real deal and the only way to find out is to play him.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I didn't say that I think Sori is well-suited to be a team leader,
but Lou was quoted early in the year as saying that Sori is one of the team’s leaders.
Lou has yet to figure out that leaders are born, not appointed, but that doesn’t change the fact that he has awarded Sori “leader” status, and thus has to be a bit differential to that status.
And yes, Lou IS that clueless.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Well last year Lou made an ass of himself
by saying the reason he did not pull Soriano in the 9th for Johnson etc after he cost us two games with defensive miscues was
because Soriano was a star and fans expected to see stars play, however he did in fact pull him after that in the 9th with a small lead.
Here is hoping he is just says stupid things in public but he sure as hell does stupid things during the game.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 24, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Jessica,
I think you have about the same opinion of Lou that I do — we are merely disagreeing on the degree of Lou’s stupidity, not its existence.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Aug 24, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is one of the leaders in bad hitting and terrible defense
and well as selfishness and showboating.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Seems like most of the discussion has focused on Sori
But DeRoMyHero made a good point about Ramirez, once we’re out of it, he needs to be shut down so he can begin healing and rehab, or surgury if necessary. The last thing I want to see is for him to further injury his shoulder in a late season game when we’re out of it.
It never gets to be easy
people got bored with bashing Gregg and Miles I guess
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 25, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah bashing gregg and miles is completely uncalled for
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Aug 25, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
boring
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 26, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Translation:
Please fire me and let me collect the $3 million that I have coming for next year so I can retire and sit by the pool in Fla.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
I think they should DL Soriano......
and let Fox and Fuld play in Left. Fox in a sample of playing time has been very productive, as well as Fuld. Even though Fox won’t be great in the field they can sub Fuld for defense.
I also think in the offseason they should try to trade Soriano. I know they wont get much in return, and they would have to pay a large part of his contract to get someone to make a deal, but even if they only got someone to pick up 6 million a year or so of his deal I think they have enough cheep talent that could be close to as productive as Sori without the headache.
I know this sounds far fetched but the Rangers made a similar move when they traded Arod to the Yanks for Sori. Maybe since the Tigers want to get rid of Maglio Ordonez 18million for next year(last year of his deal) they can come up with something to make the numbers work.
I know know what the best idea is, but even though I don’t dislike the guy, I dont care to watch him in left for the next five years.
If not the veterans, then WHO ?!?!
Good grief people. You can’t look at aging journeyman types like Micah Hoffpauir, Sam Fuld et al as viable solutions for the future. The PROBLEM is the Cub system is DEVOID of major league ready blue-chip positional prospects. So therefore might as well keep riding the horse we have.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
True my friend...but your missing the point of the discussion.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
How am I missing a point???
Until I see somebody like Gordon Beckham waiting in line at Triple A or rotting away on the bench, I’ll stick to the argument. There is VERY little purpose in turning over playing time to a bunch of aging non-prospect minor league journeyman. And I must say Jake Fox is in danger of being INSANELY overhyped on BCB, ala the infamous Matt Murton. Fox carries a nice stick, but his highest ceiling is probably as a role player in the AL.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
Fox reminds me more of Troy Neel than Matt Murton
Well, without the child support part.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 24, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
......or a future all-star....
per ESPN’s Brendan Roberts. We’ll never know unless he is given the chance.
http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=hp090813
That's a bizarre article.
He purports to be making a list of young players that have been “Jake Foxed”, i.e. have been buried in the minors and not given a chance, and then puts Troy Glaus, Nomar Garciaparra and Juan Pierre on it. Ridiculous.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh, I get it now.
That’s a fantasy baseball analysis article. No wonder. Fantasy results don’t often translate to real-life situations.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or else Sam Horn would have been a HOF player
instead of just the name of a web site.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 25, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I agree with your comment about fantasy/real life. However, Roberts point is that Fox’s numbers per his small sample size are extremely impressive. It is his opinion Jake will be an all-star some day. I think it is way too early to tell if he is a “Shane Spencer” or a future all star. However, the only way to find out is to increase the sample size and let him play.
With the exception of April and most of July, Soriano has flat out been horrible……hard to even watch his AB’s. His results during this key August stretch have contributed mightily to our poor results. I side with the camp that would like to see Fox given a chance as we have given Soriano over 400 AB’s to figure it out and he still appears lost.
I take every column written by a fantasy expert...
… with a grain of salt. They’re writing from a fantasy perspective, not a real-life perspective.
Jake Fox is Shane Spencer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fantasy analysis falls short on defense, chemistry, etc
But signs do point to the fact that Fox could have a middle of the order-type MLB bat. Most teams would try pretty hard to find room for such a player in the lineup, or at least long enough till he hits some sort of slump and management decides their luck is over.
Blou and such may think this is like some sort of Fuld/Hoffpauir mancrush, but the guy has 34 RBI in only 172 plate appearances. For a team lacking clutch hitting, he seems to bring some of it to the table. If he starts to slump or if Soriano starts to get hot again, I’m fine with him riding the bench again. But that’s not the case right now, at a time when we can no longer afford to wait for things to turn around.
Obviously, you're not a big Fox fan and that's fine.
By comparing him to Shance Spencer (who really only had one incredible month after being called up in ‘98) indicates you must think Fox’s peformance YTD is a fluke. You may be right…….or you may be wrong. Only additional playing time will determine how he adjusts to the league and vice versa.
It is clear the 2009 version of Soriano is not the same as the 2007 or 2008. Lou has stuck with the veterans to a fault and their lack of offensive production has wasted a tremendous year by our starters. I believe Soriano is hurting physically. Lets’ give Fox another 100-150 AB’s the rest of the way and see how he finishes. If nothing else, if he finishes well he increases his trade value in the off season if he doesn’t fit in our plans for 2010. If he continues to hit like he has thus far, he might just help us get back into this race.
Remember...
People thought Pie was a star, and we see where that went.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
The difference is...
Pie never put up numbers at the major league level that got anyone excited. It was more his AAA numbers and his seemingly unlimited potential.
Fox has delivered at this level with very impressive numbers. But, it is too small of a sample size to really know what we have. Again, this is why he needs to play.
BTW, Pie has starting to see some playing time in the past several weeks and has seen his average starting to rise a little.
What happened to Fox being a poor man's Phil Nevin?
I think the comparison still fits.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I see a huge difference between the two...
Fox can hit in a Cub uniform.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
And he doesn't look as dumb in Oakley's.
I really think Fox has a chance to be a Phil Nevin-type. Hits for power, is going to swing and miss at times, and can play multiple defensive positions (though he won’t excel at any of them, more than likely).
Seems like a player the Cubs would be smart to keep around, at least to spot start.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I have no problem with a guy filling the Glenallen Hill bench thumper
role who can play more than LF. I’ve seen worse fielders in MLB than Fox.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
So you'd rather have Soriano....
weird.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 24, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree about devoid, disagree about the solution
You play Baker and Fox to get a large enough sample size to make meaningful decisions about their role for next year. That role might be on the bench, but it should be an informed decision.
100 PA each for Baker, Fox, and Soto down the stretch is a must. OTOH, you have to shut down guys like Wells and Guzman before they get overworked, and give meaningful innings to the pitching prospects like Stevens and Patton to see whether they can contribute in 2010 instead of spending money on losers like Heilman and Vizcaino.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 24, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Baker
is at any risk of not getting enough PAs. He’s the starting 2nd baseman right now. Fonty’s essentially back to being a spot-starter/bench player.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Mike Fontenot nuggets
From the amazing splits page at B-R… for LBR’s career:
- Career stats .263/.338/.424 in 906 PA – this includes his good year and his two bad years.
- RISP: .238/.332/.390 in 252 PA
- When not starting a game: .225/.327/.333 in 151 PA
- Leading off an inning: .219/.265/.348 in 189 PA
- With two outs: .211/.313/.323 in 288 PA
That is amazing. He has ZERO business on a major league bench. He can’t hit when he’s not starting. He can’t hit to lead off an inning. He can’t hit when there are two outs. And he can barely hit with men in scoring position.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 24, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I would disagree
regardless of what your stats say. I like having Fontenot on the bench he was great off the bench last year and anyone who has a career .263 ba is going to have a spot on a MLB bench
Nobody signed Frank Thomas this year
And Frank’s career BA is .301.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 25, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Frank is also 40 and can't run.
Fontenot is younger, faster, and has a mullet.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Understood - just questioning oeosoto
Since he said that anybody with a career .263 BA would get a spot on a ML bench. If it wasn’t for the defensive skills of Fox and Hoffpauir, Frank Thomas would have made more sense on this roster than Joey Gathright.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 25, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Last chance for soriano!
Soriano is a great ball player! but baseball players are judged mostly on the way they perform in the playoff push. Soriano has not done that this year! if he continues to do this bad he should be ridin’ pine. what he did for the team at the begining of the season was great but we need that all year round or they will never make the playoffs!
by Auggy Doggy on Aug 25, 2009 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
DL
Sori and Bradley and bring up Brad Snyder and John-Ford Griffin
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Aug 25, 2009 6:46 PM CDT reply actions

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