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Nationals Mock Cubs 15-6

This is how we all feel, Z.

More photos » by Nam Y Huh - AP

This is how we all feel, Z.

When you hit three home runs and score six runs on twelve hits against the Washington Nationals, admittedly a good-hitting team, you really should win. (Such a run total would have won any of the four games the Cubs took from the Nats in Washington last month).

Not last night, unfortunately. Carlos Zambrano looked like he wanted to throw every pitch 900 MPH and win the game singlehandedly with his bat. That's not how Z is at his best; as I've noted several times here, Z's best games are when he has his heavy sinker working and gets lots of ground-ball outs. Of the 13 outs he managed to record before being yanked after 95 pitches (only 55 strikes), just four were via ground balls.

Still, the game was not completely out of reach when Lou called for Aaron Heilman to relieve Z. Wait, that's kind of a non sequitur, isn't it? When you put Heilman in a game, that sort of automatically puts it out of reach. Heilman entered the game with the bases loaded and one out, trailing 5-1. Now, putting Heilman in any game with the bases loaded is a really bad idea, considering the number of walks he issues, but last night Heilman decided to eschew the bases on balls. After managing to get the second out of the inning on a strikeout of Ronnie Belliard, he let Elijah Dukes put the game on ice with a grand slam.

The Cubs attempted to make it interesting with three runs in the sixth to cut the deficit to 9-4, chasing starter Garrett Mock, but then Tom Gorzelanny decided to remind us why the Pirates were so willing to dump him, allowing a three-run blast to Josh Willingham -- his second HR of the night -- and the Nats had their 15-6 blowout. Willingham reached base and scored all five times he batted, with a pair of singles and a walk in addition to the homers. It was the Nats' biggest run-scoring outburst of the season and the most the Cubs allowed in one game.

Star-divide

Z's fourth HR of the season gave him the following distinctions: he is only the fourth pitcher since World War II to have at least three seasons with four or more HR (Earl Wilson had four such seasons, Bob Lemon and Don Drysdale three each), and he is the eighth pitcher in that time frame (and 14th since 1901) to have 20 career homers.

To which the answer is, "So what? We want to win!" And you'd be absolutely correct. If the Cubs' fading chances at a playoff spot were to come to fruition, we all thought they'd have to, at the very least, sweep the Nationals. That's gone, but I am not going to give up until the task seems pretty well impossible. It's almost there, but not quite yet. Win these next two games -- and get some cooperation from other teams -- and a baseball miracle might still be at hand.

You could, however, see the discouragement in the announced crowd number of 37,297, which is almost 4,000 below official sellout capacity (41,160, according to the Cubs website). The bleachers had large swaths of empty seats -- I'm sure you could see those on the TV broadcast -- including about half of my section in the LF corner. The bleachers might have been several hundred tickets short of a sellout, and for the first time since May the day-of-game ticket windows on Waveland were closed.

It is still too early, really, to start discussing 2010 and what changes I'd like to see (believe me, I'll have some when the season is over). Clearly, this team wasn't constructed too well -- although to be fair to Jim Hendry, they couldn't have anticipated the multiple injuries to key performers. Hendry could have put together a better bench to replace those players, though. Aaron Miles, who managed to turn a 3-0 count into a strikeout while pinch-hitting last night, is rapidly moving up the list of "worst OPS since 1969 for anyone with as many PA as he has". He currently ranks 36th on that list.

Speaking of injuries, the players appearing on the cover of the Cubs' scorecard magazine for the past three months have all wound up on the DL within weeks of their appearance (June: Ted Lilly; July: Reed Johnson; August: Carlos Zambrano). Who knew that all we had to do to rid ourselves of Miles was to get the publications department to feature him on the cover of the scorecard?

Enough. Let's at least beat these guys tonight.

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Bah!

This season is over. I’m just hoping not to finish third.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It is sad isnt it....

We have hit that point where there are just too many teams involved, it is borderline miracle stages now.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even worse, we are only two games out of fourth place and one above .500

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We wont finish third....becuase you can bet as soon as its totally out of reach

…this team will win 10 of 12..

And we will have to listen to dribble like “well we finished strong and that is a good omen for next year”

by JB 23 on Aug 26, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is indeed!

I will be surprised if this team finishes above .500.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just so it's clear, Al

Those were ZAMBRANO’S runners on base.

Yeah, Heilman gave up the grand slam, but to expect any reliever not to let in at least one is expecting a lot.

Zambrano only went 4.1 innings. Hard to justify bringing in Marmol in the 5th inning.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd have put just about anyone in the game except Heilman.

Yes, those were Z’s runners. The grand slam was the worst possible outcome. For that, I blame Heilman.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 26, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was already 5-1

Nothing was going to happen anyway.

Our hitters are heroes when it’s 15-3.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At 5-1 in the 5th inning...

… the game was winnable, against that pitching staff.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 26, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have a far greater opinion of our hitters than I do

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They scored six runs.

Therefore, if the pitching staff could have kept it at 5-1, they would have won.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 26, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's assuming they could have still scored those six runs

They haven’t exactly performed well under pressure this season.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, because the Nationals would have played EXACTLY

the same way and pitched EXACTLY the same way.

C’mon, Al, you know better than that. It was 15-5 when we scored the 6th run.

Do you honestly believe the Nationals pitch the same way?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not.

Maybe they use different pitchers. Maybe Gorzelanny isn’t in the game.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 26, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And whose fault was it that we had to go to the bullpen after 4.1 innings?

It wasn’t Heilman’s.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why are you so down On Gorzo

he has piched well since being a Cub he gave up 3 runs so did Marshall and Zambrano gave up 8 it was obvious the game was over and you saying that they would have won if the didn’t give up anymore runs is just well not really that great of a comment. Pitchers just throw the ball over the plate when they have leads like that so they don’t issue walks. Which leads to more hits and more runs bc they know as long as they don’t give up grand slams they are safe. That is why the cubs scored so many runs and why they lost. The gme was over when Z walked in the 5th run period but def over when Heilman gave up slam.

by oeosoto on Aug 26, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who said I was "down" on Gorzo?

All I said was, if the game’s closer maybe he isn’t in it.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 26, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and that he showed us why the Pirates dumped him

couldn’t tell if you were being sarcastic

by oeosoto on Aug 26, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if Lou

brings someone else in at that point? All that means is that Heilman would come into the game later. Sorry, but this loss is on Z and the lackluster effort from the Cubs. Except for Milton Bradley, who plays great in garbage time.

by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 26, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley went 4-4

That means he got hits when it was

0-0 (1st inning)
1-1 (3rd inning)

Please for you to be shutting your face now.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I find it funny...

That people insist on singling out players at this point. I mean really, look at the 20-30 posts here, we have people blamming Heilman, Z, Bradley, Miles, i mean really? At what point do we just blame the entire team, this isnt golf or tennis, it is not an individual sport, 9 innings, multiple times to change the game, EVERYONE is to blame in a team game.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, true

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

but it is pretty funny that some people still pick out Bradley to criticize when he goes 4-4 and is the only player who you can say had a good game. Arguably he is the only player in this awful August who has played well. Maybe Fox too.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean...

Lets face it, i didnt want Bradley, but there was nothing i could do about that, he is/was a Cub, but to blame 1 guy right now is a joke.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scapegoating

That’s pretty much what it is. People wonder where this game was when they could have used it.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Agreed. Far past time for this, except to start making plans for the off-season adjustments to be made.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why the animosity?

Look there are plenty of others that need blame. I’m just taking it out on Milton because he was yapping about the fans again.

by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 26, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree Bradley should just shut up

but that isn’t his personality. The media knows that and loves to get comments from him.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man went 4-4 with a walk

He can spit on the fans for all I care.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Aug 26, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally agree

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is nothing to be emarassed about for the first half of the season...

unless you are Milton Bradley.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please

He was never given a chance by 60% of the fanbase, Most of the others just waited for him to fail. How the hell can he succeed when even a 4-4 night draws criticism?

Ryan Dempster has a bad season after signing a big contract- its cool he tells jokes.
Fukudome has a bad season after signing a big contract- its cool he’s not from here.
Milton Bradley has half a bad season after signing a contract- that evil bastard

Something is wrong with that picture.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not disagreeing with you...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Other than Fukudome...

Do you see a trend with the Cubs signings?

Career year, then the Cubs sign them to HUGE contracts…

Who is to blame for this? Not the players that is for sure.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why I wish somebody with some statistical knowledge

would run this team. Somebody that can say to the GM “hey I know this guy hit .340 last season, but his career averages put him closer to .295, also he doesn’t really hit more than 15 homers and get more than 50 RBI, you sure you want him”

That way when a player is signed they are signed for the right reason and not put in an unfair situation. Neither Fukudome nor Bradley are that middle of the order guy that Hendry wanted, but what he did was sign a great 1-2 punch at the top of the order. Of course Hendry and Lou don’t know this yet.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

I also don’t want management to pay a premium on name players, but fill needs.

Hendry could have traded for Ryan Church to play CF or sign Soriano. Soriano had monster 2007 & 2008, but didn’t play CF. Church would have been the better move to fill the void in CF for those years.

It’s sort of like my golf game. Huge mistakes lead to more huge mistakes, which is why I suck.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

And I pray Tom Ricketts agrees as well.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 26, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

George Steinbrenner used to do EXACTLY this with the Yankees

and it didn’t work then either. Finally he hired smart people and let them do their jobs.

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Aug 26, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed this is what Steinbrenner used to do. I will add

I thought he was forced to hire smart baseball people because his warranty ran out and he needed to stay in Tampa under nurses care. In the Boss’ case, I don’t believe he did it by choice.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

which is why Ricketts needs to hire a baseball man

and put him in charge of this team. Somebody above Hendry, or whoever the GM might be.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are so right!!!

…Hendry should not be allowed to; make a trade, sign a FA, assemble a roster or hire a new manager without someone (who is a good baseball man) approving every move.

Furthermore, If Hendry is still around, that same baseball man needs to immediately put in a plan to restructure scouting and player development – like yesterday.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

If you want love, don’t expect it from a highly-paid athlete.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus

Bradley hit his HR on a 3-2 count – something he really hasn’t done all year. Props to him for that.

by azjazzman on Aug 26, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He lets inherited runners score...

…but does not let passengers board.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"No ticket!"

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was all set to finally watch an entire game

at Wrigley for what seemed like a month. It was not what I wanted or any of you. It appeared to me we didn’t show up until the last half of the game when it was all but over. This is so sad, and after seeing empty seats and hearing boo’s last night, the players that were here last year probably can’t believe last year ever existed at this rate. At least end the season fighting!

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Spanked by the worst team in the Majors!

OUCH!

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 26, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

At least we established earlier this season...

… that games against the Nats don’t count.

Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Aug 26, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anyone said that

Some people said that a sweep of the Nats shouldn’t be met with untempered enthusiasm for the Cubs’ prospects.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I felt really ill this morning, when at 5:45 AM I turned on my computer and saw the score.

But it ain’t over till it’s over, and while things look bleak, eamus catuli.

Now where did I put my:

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

JUST LUCKY YOU.....

Did not have to watch it …..Even the neighbor lady had to ask me , Isn’t that team that beat them the Expos ???? I wanted to crawl into the garage and hide .

by cubs north on Aug 26, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zambrano you are awful

A 7-5 record from a supposed ace…always tweaking something…can’t eat right…won’t drink enough fluids. Then when we need you…you blow up against the Nats. Thanks, but I’m tired of your bullshit Z. What’s the excuse Carlos? What now?

And hey Z…why don’t you lose 20 pounds before spring training?

by EamuCanoli on Aug 26, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Carlos Zambrano, the human excuse rolodex!

Where’s that Cy Young you promised us? At least you were man enough to say you were bad which is much more than our cap-tipping skipper, Lou, who just heaped praise on the speedy, power hitting Nats.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh I cant wait to hear next spring

that Z is in the best shape of his career, then he’ll post another 12 win season.

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 26, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am with you

I have grown tired of "Z"’s antics and excuses. It is time he stops the bullshit and pitches like a No. 1
 I have always been in his corner, well this time my support has run out. He needs to step up.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 26, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not a No. 1 so that's never going to happen.

He is who he is. Accept it or…well…continue to be frustrated for no reason.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 26, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comebacks...

Al,

Your review of stirring comebacks of teams in the last month of a season to make the playoffs (thus giving hope to Cub fans) has one fatal flaw: THESE ARE THE C-U-B-S.

Please reach into your historical database and instead show us any stirring comeback by a Cubs team to make the playoffs this late in the season.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Aug 26, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It isnt even that...

The amount of games, and the amount of teams that are involved, it will take too big of a miracle.

Hey Bears star soon, and Hawks soon after that.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There hasn't been one.

Closest I can come: the 2003 Cubs were 2.5 games out on August 31, with 27 games left.

They went 19-8 and won the division.

Why can’t there be a first time?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 26, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because...

For the last two weeks, we’ve all been hanging our hats on the “easy” part of the schedule.

Coming off an off-day, back at home, “ace” pitcher going after a long rest and playing the worst team in the NL.

And we get spanked.

It will not happen.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al

I love your recaps but you’re really reaching at this point. This team lacks heart and continues to play down to their competition (see Padres, San Diego). They really seem like they’ve mailed it in since the Cardinals got hot. A good team would have stepped up once their biggest rival was trying to stake their claim to the division.

by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 26, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that just means they suck

They play down to competition, and get hammered by good competition. awww crap

All this buttoning and unbuttoning

by Marttisdad on Aug 26, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to hear they can't come back because no Cubs team ever has.

The past 101 years have no effect on this year. I am an optimist like Al but there is no doubt it is getting really close to be the end.

by niuhuskie224 on Aug 26, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well the scorecard curse makes sense

I heard the convention calendar this year avoid current players. That means the usual and proven Calendar Curse had to transfer its power to the scorecard.

"You just don't know understand how frustrating this is"- Kevin Borseth

by TkGoUWGB on Aug 26, 2009 8:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Blaming Heilman

is pretty weak. That game was lost after Zambrano looked like he should have had a few more rehab starts. The Cubs scored half of their runs in garbage time. Just a pathetic effort by a team that trumps every disappointing loss again and again.

by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 26, 2009 8:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I blame Heilman for:

Iraq war
Economic downturn
My dog peeing on the the chair.
Earwigs

Damn you Heilman!

Kevin Gregg is the Mother F'n Anti-christ!

by VegasCubFan on Aug 26, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I prefer to believe that AAron is simply a misunderstood human being in need of more hugs.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he can get more hugs

If we trade him to Pittsburgh. Who’s with me?

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet he's a wonderful human being

Our friend brian custer swears he is. I’ll hug the crap out of him, once his contract expires.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny Story

Chris Young, the young CF for the Dbacks, has struggled all year…hitting below .200 and eventually was shipped out to AAA. At one point in early July, a female fan ran out on the field and gave him a lengthy hug before security pulled her away.

CY immediately went on his one and only hot streak of the year…for about a week. He then missed a few games with a strained hammy and upon his return, resumed strugglng. A local radio station started a promotion to find another fan who would risk it to give CY another hug.

by azjazzman on Aug 26, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blame Z and Lou

Z for coming up really small in an important game, and Lou for putting Heilman in a situation where he tends to stink. Doesn’t Lou expect runs to score when H comes in with runners on base? Most of us do.

Anyway, I’m done agonizing over this team in 2009. Kudos to DLee, Lilly, Fukudome. Wells, and some of the others. For Sori, Miles, Soto, Z, Gregg, Fontenot, etc., not so much.

by cubmudgeon on Aug 26, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A quick word on Z

Sometimes he can be my favorite player, but I’m beginning to really hate the fact that he still acts like a 12 year old boy most of the time.

A trip to the psychologist to help Z find ways to calm down, and he might actually earn his contract. Until then, I don’t see how Z is any more than a 15-10/3.70ERA type pitcher with a few homeruns and a few meltdowns every year.

I’m sure I’m not the only person here who feels like Z’s behavior (note I said behavior and not performance) is typical of this team, and makes them very easy to dislike.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Aug 26, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i agree with your final statement.

i don’t really like anyone on this club, save a couple of the young guys. they could replace everybody, and i wouldn’t mind.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Aug 26, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a very unlikable group of guys.

Aside from Lee, everyone could shove off and I wouldn’t care one bit. For some reason, I’ve always liked Marshall, too, though I’ve heard him say maybe three sentences since he’s been here. I appreciate the way he just goes bout his business. There are no real magnetic personalities; no rock-solid character guys. Most of them seem to play because they HAVE to as opposed to wanting to. Shit – I can’t even say “as long as (insert player’s name here) keeps (hitting the cover off the ball / missing bats) like he does, I don’t care if he’s an asshole,” ‘cuz we don’t have anyone that is even close to deserving that kind of praise for their play. Except maybe Kosuke and Lee.

I dunno. I guess I’m just completely uninspired by this roster in every conceivable way. I know I’m not alone.

by stuartscottslefteye on Aug 26, 2009 4:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

"The sky is crying"...

“Look at the tears roll down the street…”

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Aug 26, 2009 8:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I saw the score on ESPN's bottom line last night

and I just laughed. Honestly, laughed, and simply said “wow”. I’m glad I wasn’t able to watch the game. This loss tears it for me. I’m checking out. Anything short of Pujols and Wainwright…and Carpenter, and Franklin for that matter…knees expolding within the next week, we just simply won’t catch them. They’re a machine right now, and we’re sputtering on like an old windup car. I’m a diehard, and I always stand up and defend my Cubs vs. Cards/Sox/Brewers fans who constantly give me shit day in and day out…but there’s nothing I can say now, nothing. Except, “Yep, we’re crap.”

I’m out fellas. Bring on the Bears’ and Hawks’ seasons!

"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon

by HawkVision on Aug 26, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the cards have a real shot at the series.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Aug 26, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just like the Cubs did last year?

My money’s on the Yankees this year.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was saying this to my wife last night

after learning of the Cubs score and seeing the highlights of the gem Wainwright threw…‘this is going to be one of those boring postseasons where the Cubs are out, the Yanks, Cards, Angels, Dodgers are all in, which will result in me going back to not giving a damn about baseball in September for the first time in a while.’ Although a Yanks/Cards WS would be pretty interesting. But if someone like the Rockies makes it, I won’t watch out one of that kinda series.

"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon

by HawkVision on Aug 26, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With all the great starting pitching on this team

the Cubs have not won a game this season 1-0, 2-0 or 3-0. Can you believe that? I think that’s pretty odd.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 26, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed this too and it's VERY telling.

And it’s also not odd when you consider the entire “body of work” exhibited by the team this season.

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Aug 26, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This one about did me in,

I’ll still watch every game I can and support the team, but as for playoff hopes… Last night was my coup de grace. That along with running the gauntlet this morning in my Cardinal-friendly workplace. I did manage to hold my head high though. It may be time for me to wait till…. ah crap, I can’t say it. Let’s just get whatever wins we can to finish this one off.

by Fonzie2178 on Aug 26, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

its over

Cub fans you can start thinking of next year now, what was to be an dream year has turned into a real old fashion nightmare and to be the wipping post of the WORST team in baseball and at home in your own park is not in any way acceptable, there must be very big changes, for next year and why not start now, bring up some of the young kids and send down the ones who day in and day out show there there for the money and thats all. I hope you feel like I do this morning Mr. Hendry, This team should be boycotted

by Larki40 on Aug 26, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Always love

The send the veterans to AAA suggestion.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately...

Something big has to happen because this team is not built for success down the road. “Waiting til next year” might become “wait 10 years”.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing that really tweaks you..

though is that some of this could have been fixed at the trade deadline; maybe even a bit after. Even management seems happy to turn this into a lost season.

Wonder how happy they’ll be when the last month turn out 30,00 a game in attendance, with most leaving well before last call for beer.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 26, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fix how?

With Soriano and Soto having terrible seasons, Ramirez missing a lot of his power and a questionable bullpen how could this season have been realistically fixed?

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And yet for all that...

At the trade deadline, the Cubs were 1/2 game out. That was around the time of Gregg’s “tired arm”, and the bullpen was showing signs of problems. Even if they couldn’t have found a helpful corner man to fill in a bit, they could have gotten more bullpen help. You might have gotten a more offensive catcher to take some at-bats away from Geo Soto; maybe offset the sagging offense that way.

The Cubs could have made better moves, yet chose not to; I suspect for financial reasons. I don’t blame this train wreck on the players on the field, who often are square pegs that Piniella is trying to fit into round holes. I’m looking straight at the front office.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 26, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They did add two arms

I’m not arguing that the front office isn’t to blame for this season along with the players. However, I don’t see what they could have done at the trading deadline that would have fixed this. What front line catcher and closer was available that would have helped that they could have acquired?

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know what...

I’m good and raw this morning, and I’m going to stop here before I find myself misdirecting that frustration.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 26, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't think we are disagreeing that much

I just think the problems were caused much earlier during initial roster construction. The bad seasons from Soriano and Soto made things worse. ARam’s injury obviously hurt and then the starting pitching issues in August.

I’m just not convinced that something could have been done at the deadline.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In other words

the Cards are 16-5 in August and the Rockies are 16-7. I don’t know what realistically the Cubs could have done at the deadline to fix this team to match those teams right now. The problems were bigger than that.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rockies are

52-22 since the firing of Hurdle. Crazy

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 26, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't their previous run happen

When Hurdle took over mid-season?

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm Jim Tracy

I’m getting my next job lined up for about June of next year

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Victor Martinez?

He catches doesnt he?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If by "arms" you mean Gorzo and Grabow,

you’re a lunatic. Shit – why not sign me and then we can say they added three arms!

by stuartscottslefteye on Aug 26, 2009 4:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

The cumbersome

contracts would not allow a fix. The real scary part is how do you improve this team for next year? I really don’t see the difference from the trading deadline to the off season. I just am not sure how you make changes.

Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.

by wild bill on Aug 26, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

The cumbersome contracts are a huge problem. I sure don’t have an answer for this mess.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Aug 26, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The manager

makes the lineup every day. He’s the one who keeps writing in the non-producers day after day after day after day and leaving the producers sitting in the dugout to pinch hit in the seventh inning for the pitcher with nobody on base.

by racertom on Aug 26, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Worse

yet, Hendry and gang do not have any answers either. They have backed themselves into a corner but bad. The only hope for next year is Soriano, Soto, Bradley, oh what the heck the list is very long. If they all could play up to their contracts. Oh the heck with it.

Let me be the first to say, what until not next year, but the year after!

Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.

by wild bill on Aug 26, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You sir

have hit a grand slam of epic proportions. It will all depend upon Mr. Ricketts sense of urgency.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't get your hopes too high on wholesale changes from the new owner.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Cub fan

High hopes are not in my psyche.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Initially I agree...

…but if Ricketts does not bring in someone to watch every move Hendry makes as (president of baseball operations), I will wonder what he is thinking.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My goal for this year's Cubs

Is to win enough games so BLou can’t say ‘I told you so’.

by CubbieFaninOhio on Aug 26, 2009 8:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't matter

he’ll bask in his self-created glory.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he gets it right, he should.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Aug 26, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The way the Cubs are playing

they may not reach BLou’s 79-83 win prediction at all.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 26, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then he'd be wrong

And I could tell him that he was wrong and should just drink more Ovaltine.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 26, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BLou was wrong

they will win less than 79

by plenz on Aug 26, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs have been very very bad

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meaningless

This season’s been over for quite a while now. It’s pointless to keep wishing upon a star with this group when it’s pretty clear that they’ve quit. They can spew all the rhetoric they want, even they know that this season is done. Unfortunate, but true. It’s been the ultimate hangover to the euphoric regular season of 2008. From the playoffs forward, it’s been nothing but a nightmare. It will be positive when it officially ends. Unofficially, it already has.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Aug 26, 2009 8:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree

as Krummy as that is. I have whiplash from shaking my head since the off season at the moves Hendry made.

Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.

by wild bill on Aug 26, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not confused with the moves made.

Hendry and Lou liked their starting pitching, thought Marmol was at least as good as Wood, and DeRosa was replaceable. None of these things were wild ideas. I might have been sorry to see one or two guys leave, as a fan, but understood the on the field.

They identified their need as a clutch power hitter who could hit left handed. They identified the guy who had the single best 2008 who fit that description and signed him for a number they thought was below market.

I’m confused with the moves not made. The bullpen was pretty bad from the start, needing a real supplement, and no move was made to shore up third base with an everyday worthy hitter when Ramirez went down. Fox’s first appearance at third was at the MLB level after the injury and Fontenot was exposed having to play third every day as opposed to 2/3rds at second.

The season has been pretty normal. Guys the team counted on slumped or were injured (Ramirez, Bradley, Soriano), others outperformed expectations (Wells, Lilly, Theriot, Fox, Lee).

I see the difference in managment being frozen with the initial plan. Whether Hendry had the hard budget number, but expected relief later, or Hendry’s budget leeway was taken away during the season.

Either way, this team was good enough, with moves, to overcome the injuries and slumps, but no moves were made.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree with what you are saying...

except for DeRo, i dont think you can find too many guys like him.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I loved DeRo, but from a GM perspective, at the time

it looked as though Fontenot could fill his role at second base with a speedier LH bat, cheaper. Obviously didn’t turn out that way, but at the time, I understood.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But DeRo,

plays a solid 3b, and outfield, not to mention a little first, so i think he is a pretty valueable player.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agreed with this then, even more now.

I was just using my understanding the logic behind the DeRo move limits my anger over the move itself when Hendry pulled the trigger. As stated, I’m frustrated by the non-moves.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it made sense to trade DeRo and sell high

But it didn’t make sense to not find anybody who could fill his shoes. Fontenot might have been slotted in as the main starter at second, but Aaron Miles was the utility guy signed to replace DeRo.

And Hendry really messed up there.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All true, but which is the bigger error.

Believing that a combination of Fontenot/Miles, who looked on paper like a good match, could platoon to replace DeRo, or not fixing it after it was proven not to work?

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they acquired Baker

But Lou refuses to trot out Fontenot.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I refuse

to continue this discussion.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, they got Grabow, Gorzo and Baker

And I disagree with your final graph. The team made moves, and still wasn’t good enough.

A lot of that falls on Lou. He could have replaced Soriano or Bradley with Fox (or even Fuld), and Fontenot with Baker, and he could have acted faster to replace Gregg with Marmol (which is debatable, I know, because of Marmol’s struggles).

But he didn’t — at least, not to the extent that he should have. The fact that Fontenot has started twice in the past four games is ridiculous — and Lou’s comments that he would go with veterans as opposed to sparkplugs like Fox and Fuld (even though Fox started last night) make me think he’s a bigger problem than Hendry.

His moves lately remind me of Dusty’s refusal to replace Hawkins with Dempster as closer in 2005 (a move Hendry was advocating in the media, and that didn’t really take effect until Hawkins was traded) and his refusal to play Theriot more in 2006.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

None of those were moves made to fill a void.

Gorzo was a good add as a potential starter/swing man for 2010 and to spot start in 2009. He wasn’t an add to add strength to the rotation to win now.

Grabow is a minor fill in to get a Loogy. Team needed to bolseter set-up and closing, not addressed.

Team needed a player to start at third over Ramirez injury, not addressed until Fox started to play there near the end.

Team needed a starting second baseman after Fontenot’s woes continued. He got Baker, who looks decent, but could not be counted on to come in and fill the void by playing every day.

So, you believe Hendry made the moves necessary to fill the needs of the club with Grabow, Gorzo and Baker? I don’t. I believe he wasn’t allowed to take any more financial risk and 2009 is another opportunity which may now be lost.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can kinda agree on Gorzo

But why can’t Baker be counted on to come in and play second every day? Please provide some reasoning behind that statement. And Grabow was more than a minor fill. I think he was a move made to bolster setup — a good move, at that.

Where else could the Cubs have improved and who could they have acquired, given the roster? The Cubs didn’t need to add starting pitching, so Cliff Lee, et. al, were off the table. That left the bullpen and the lineup/bench.

As for the bullpen, onn July 31, Gregg had not yet imploded, IIRC. In fact, he was pretty good for the previous two months until he imploded in Florida on Aug. 1-2 — right AFTER the deadline. Guzman and Marshall had pitched well, and Marmol (despite his struggles) is still Marmol. Giving up on him wasn’t an option. That left smaller moves — LIKE GETTING GRABOW and GORZO. That’s six of the seven bullpen spots.

That left the lineup. Lee, Ramirez (who was back playing every day) and Theriot have all performed well, and Kosuke’s been OK. That left second base — which was addressed with the Baker trade — catcher (more on that in a second) and the corner outfield spots. Unfortunately, neither Soriano or Bradley was hurt to the point where getting a three-month fill-in made any sense — unless you can think of anyone I don’t know about.

Without getting into the bench, the only thing the Cubs could have done IMO was upgrade at catcher. Outside of going after V-Mart, who was out there to get?

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hendry did not fill third when Ramirez went down.

Forcing Lou to play Fontenot & Miles together. Exposing both. Gambling on Ramirez coming back as he left, which he has done for the most part, but in a contending year was a huge gamble.

I did not think Grabow was acquired to bolster set up as much as fill the loogy role. I believe Grabow has been enlisted to set up because the other options of Heilman, Marmol, Shark, etc. have stunk in the role.

While Baker seems to be okay, I don’t view the acquisition of Baker a move to fill second on an every day basis. His numbers, in limited use, for the Rockies this year were .130/.167/.217 and his career numbers, including his good play with the Cubs, are .266/.322/.471. Believing he might work out does not make it an affirmative move to fill a need and stop bleeding.

I’m not looking for an argument, but I believe Hendry made little moves because he was stuck between existing NTC contracts and his budget and we’re all paying the price.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't see ...

a lot of guys he could have acquired, even if you ignore salary issues. There weren’t too many options that filled the team’s needs.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baker's #'s with the Rockies

Were in 14 games at the beginning of the season, mostly as a pinch-hitter. I don’t put much if any merit into those. Lots of guys get off to slow starts, see: Lee, Soriano, Soto, Miles, Bradley, etc…

Baker should be playing every day at this point. Mike Fontenot is a joke. I would rather see Andres Blanco every day than Fontenot.

by tripdenten on Aug 26, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

Though I wouldn’t have called Fontenot a “joke.”

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A little harsh

Yes, but did you see his throwing error last night? One of the worst throws I have ever seen!

by tripdenten on Aug 26, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't

But I’ve been on the dump-Fontenot bandwagon for months. I think he’s a nice guy and I don’t really question his effort. But he’s not getting the job done — and he hasn’t been for months.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I should add that Hendry acquired Freel.

However, that was more a flyer to see if Freel could stick and unload Gathright rather than fill the need.

I really don’t want to turn this into a “we needed DeRosa” discussion, but whether it’s the over discussed players of DeRosa or Roberts or making a big move for a franchise SS so Theriot could play second, Hendry dabbled. I believe it was ownership and budget that had him using duct tape and baling wire to cover his mistakes rather than larger moves to right the ship.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand

 your points. But me, I never liked the Bradley signing. That is just my opinion. Bako, Miles are two more that I did not agree with. I did not like the DeRosa deal nor the Gregg deal. I was not opposed to losing Woody. But did not agree with his replacement. I liked the signing of Dempster. I understand what they tried to do, but it certainly has not worked.

Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.

by wild bill on Aug 26, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. In prior years, Hendry has been able

to amend the rosters to fill needs with proven players. This year he got two guys from AAA and a Loogy.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

PEAVY!

Ugh… sorry. It’s a habit now, I guess.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I had your

conviction! And your avatar, LOL

by Fonzie2178 on Aug 26, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just trying to be optimistic..

..obviously they won’t go undefeated, but until they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, I’ll have some hope.

by Cubs and Hawks fan on Aug 26, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right,

that’s the way to be… I lost a lot of hope after suffering through last night’s game. In the big picture though, it’s just like Yogi Berra said. “When you get to a fork in the road, take it.” Just kidding, you know which quote I mean!

by Fonzie2178 on Aug 26, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hear that?

That’s the sound of big-boned woman clearing her voice….

by salparadise23 on Aug 26, 2009 8:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He speaks the truth

even if he shouldn’t say it.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather Bradley call the fans out on that crap

Is there any wonder why many players don’t want to play for the Cubs? As if he should be hated for taking the deal that he did? He’s done better with his money than Aaron Miles, but few in MLB could have stunk up the joint more than Aaron Miles has this season. Bradley’s not a bust. Is he overpaid for what he offers the team? Sure. I don’t see that as a reason to hate him. Fans had a high expectation this season and many of us, myself included at some points, have been really sore losers about it. Should we expect more with this payroll? Absolutely. Go have some conversations with Mets fans about money poorly spent.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

What players don't want to play for the Cubs?

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

JJ and Hawkins really don't want to come back

Why split hairs and ignore my entire argument? Cubs fans need to get a grip. It’s just a freaking baseball game.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since you're just going to have a comment about those two players...

I’ll beat you to the punch. I don’t want them back either, but how does it look for your franchise? Look at all the crap that got thrown at Steve Bartman and for what? Is it his fault the team imploded in 2003? It’s really no wonder that we are among the most hated fans. Bad apples usually spoil the bunch.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know Bartman wasn't a player Itchy

Back the finger away from the reply button.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The most hated fans? Get a clue!

The most laughed at, maybe, hated, not a chance.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you should

Review the difference here:

1) …among the most hated fans.

2) …are the most hated fans.

Can you tell me what the difference is here?

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh sorry, Among the most hated fans?

The most laughed at, maybe, hated, not a chance.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, there's a chance

A pretty good one.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A very good one

Cubs fans are among the most disliked in baseball. Stuff like this is part of the reason.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 26, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Proof?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marty Brennamen?

But, yeah, I’m not sure the Cubs are among the most hated across the sport. That’s a hard thing to quantify.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the issue...

…is so many people have jumped on the bandwagon over the years that aren’t what I would call “intelectual fans”. I think the core Cub fans are very knowledgable, but that has been watered down by those that have joined in because it’s “cool”.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's cool to go to Wrigley and look at the attractive people

It’s also cool to drink with them, and maybe hook up with one of them. It’s cool to have a few hours to drink under the sun in beautiful surroundings. It’s cool to see and be seen.

It’s totally uncool to not know what winning a championship feels like.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if anybody sees the oxymoron in this Bradley quote:

"It’s hard to be comfortable when you don’t get a hit and get booed every time," he said. "When I go home and look in the mirror, I like what I see. My family is there I have people I can talk to who are very supportive, in spite of everything and all the adversity and the hatred you face on a daily basis. But I’ll be alright. I always have."

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley is one of those athletes

who speaks his mind — jumbled as it may be — which reporters love.

Except reporters hate it, and rip him for doing it.

Why any player talks to any reporter is beyond me.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Why any player talks to any reporter is beyond me."

You couldn’t be more right. Especially given the quality of the beat reporters in this town.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny that he only talks to reporters when he has a good night....

…and how ironic is it that he goes 4-4 in a laugher?

Gee thanks for showing up Milton.

by JB 23 on Aug 26, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

because it’s his fault the rest of the team couldn’t do much.

That makes sense. Not.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

Lashing out any?

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like or not, it's part of being a professional athlete

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not so much anymore

Not with blogs, Twitter, team Web sites and the rest.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Players are pampered

and so are reporters. They both live off the game of baseball so it is in their best interest to sustain their livelihood. I wouldn’t say that reporters are any smarter or dumber than the players, just perhaps a bit more articulate. They also have the advantage of editing their words which the players don’t have.

We’ve all said things during a game or right after it that didn’t exactly express our feeling correctly. In the end, players and reporters eat off the same table.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only Chicago

Cubs reporter I have met is Bruce Miles and he doesn’t strike me as pampered at all. He realizes he has a pretty cool job, but he works hard and I don’t think he sees himself as part of the story…he just reports what he sees and hears. I suspect most are like that. They don’t perceive access as a reason to inject themselves into the storyline.

by azjazzman on Aug 26, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We know, you're a rosenbloom fan.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, Van Dyck is my guy.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awww... thanks SWL

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 26, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're not missing much

just a picture of a smiling Dick Van Dyke, basking in the glow of knowing that he is SWL-approved…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 26, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bruce

is the exception to the rule. Too many reporters are akin to agents. Just keep the game running despite the obvious problems. How long did it take for the steroid issue to become a subject of discussion?

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bruce Levine is fantastic

Miles is fine, and I actually like Gordo — though I know he’s an acquired taste. Rogers is NOT good, and Sullivan was good at one point, not so much anymore.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there isn't one.

It’s hard to be booed consistently. But he has support from his family and his friends.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man went 4-4 with a walk

And he probably still gets booed.

I’m sold on Bradley. I want him back next year.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Me too

if he can weather the fans and the sucktitude around him and still perform, he’s a guy I want.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 26, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He can't weather the fans and is already complaining to the media

Playing out there is tough and thin skinned hotheads need not apply, hit the bricks, Milton.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or... the fans could freaking grow up

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

BINGO!

see my post below, i really think the stupid fans are growing day in and day out.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is very true

i am sure some morons purposely sit in RF just to pick on Milton because of his past and they know it gets to him. I fear he will heckled as long as he’s a Cub unless a miracle happens and we it all.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, he should "Hit the bricks"

because of the actions of people you call morons.

Guess she was just asking for it, huh?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he doesn't like it, he should

He knew what he was getting into. He knew there would be huge expectations.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I personally do not base my decisions in life

on the behavior of morons. I do not see why you advocate someone doing so.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just said if he can't take it to hit the bricks

becasue it’s not going to change. I wish the morons would shut up, but sadly they probably won’t.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And he's finally starting to live up to

those high expectations. Theres no excuse for him personally to get boo’d.

That kind of singling out is what makes morons morons.

Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave

by Allie on Aug 26, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec..

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 26, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's one thing to boo when something really stupid happens

Bradley being unable to count outs that one day was worth the boos and I’m sure he understood that. It’s another thing when fans have turned on these players, many of them the same people who brought them one of the greatest seasons in years. It’s no wonder people don’t want to play for the Cubs. The bad fans have given a horrible perception of the entire fan base. Scapegoating Bradley because he had the stones to call out these bad fans doesn’t help things. It only proves what he’s talking about.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he is weathering the fans

by producing every day. If he says anything about them, so what? If his play suffered, like it did earlier in the season, then he isn’t handling it well, but he’s getting on base every game and playing RF very well. His comments don’t bother me, mostly. Does he bring some of it on himself, sure, but some fans need to lay off, they are simply baiting him now.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 26, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+10,000 BCB points

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really hope he does come back

He’s got an elite batting eye and great on-base skills. He’s been healthy this season, he’s due for a better season offensively.

Unfortunately the Cubs fans have created this awful environment for Milton, and if he asks for a trade this offseason and gets it that would be too bad.

Milton Bradley’s treatment makes me embarrassed to be a Cubs fan.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want him back too.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 26, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK...

I will say this, i was apart of the racism and horrible comments that were directed at Jacque Jones, and knowing and seeing JJ, i knew it weighed on him a lot, and i am sure everything that is said and directed at Milton is weighing on him.

Look as i said before i did not want Bradley to begin with, but when he became a cub i accepted him. Was he going to cure cancer, probably not. But lets face it he is one guy on a team of 25, he cannot do it all everyday.

And reading this, seeing this i am really starting to believe the stupid Cub fans are starting to out weigh the good ones. As the years go by it seems that these stupid fans who harrass players day in and day out are taking over, it is sad and at some point you have to feel for the players, you really do. And if you are one of those who boo’s bradley every day, you should take a look in the mirror yourself and ask how is that being productive?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

clarify

“part of the racism and horrible comments that were directed at Jacque Jones.” You mean you witnessed the racism, rather than yelled it at Jacque, correct? Just wanted to make sure that’s known to those who haven’t been around here long.

by TC Cubby on Aug 26, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea my bad...

I was with JJ when it was happening. I actually had a few conversations with him about the hatred he received. it weighed on him.

By no means was i the participant of the hatred, sorry for the unclear posting of that.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This might be a good BCB topic

How do we take back the fan base from the haters? How can we call them out? How can we marginalize them?

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And while we're at it

Dump that damn, “Let’s go Cubbies!” chant.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you separate

the fanatic from fan? Yeah, let me know how that works out. Maybe go check with the European soccer league, see if they have any ideas.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not sure...

there is too much you can do. To be honest, i think something that would help would be for a guy like Milton to win the MVP next year, honestly that is one way to shut fans up right? And those stupid fans would have to eat crow. Would they? Doubtful but it is about the only way to get the point across.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO...

…Bradley does not have the mental makeup to blend in well with the pressures that come with Chicago and the Cubs.

When you have a history of eratic behaviour, markets with a lot of pressure are probably not the best match.

This is where you have to do your due diligence, and look beyond the numbers.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is exactly right

you don’t play for as many different teams as Milton has (5 teams in 6 years) for no reason. I guarantee you every team that acquired him since his stint with Cleveland thought that they were the ones that were going to straighten him out.

In particular, I remember the Dodgers saying that he would thrive in LA because he grew up there, his mom lived there, the fans would be supportive, etc. They got their fill of Milton in pretty short order.

I pointed this out when the Cubs signed MB, but was shouted down.

by azjazzman on Aug 26, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree MPH73

I have nothing personnel on Milton, I just the signing was not a good move baseball or public relations wise. This hell bent idea to get lefthanded started the fall for this baseball team. This is not Bradleys fault, he has played well the second half, this was Hendrys and Lou’s fault.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 26, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

…Hendry did have a nice dinner with him though!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might be right

However, we have him now. So we should probably continue to wish him well, cheer him on, and look for trade opportunities if and when they arise.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't wish him ill will...

…I’m just stating that I don’t think he has the makeup to thrive in this environment.

Besides that, his career has also shown that he is better RH hitter with more power, so on that front, he wan’t the best choice to get a lefty to drive in runs either.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop selling beer in the bleachers?

I never sit anywhere near the bleachers bc it’s ridiculous. I feel like it’s a completely different world out there and don’t care to ever be a part of that.

by smash! on Aug 26, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, your policy seems to be working, no?

If you upset the equilibrium by changing the beer policy, they might come storming into the grandstand!

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha, true, but they won't be able to congregate together.

Come to think of it, maybe they need to have assigned seats in the bleachers to prevent the frat parties, bachelor parties, etc. It would be harder for a-holes to get a large group together- which I think eggs on the recklessness- if there were assigned seats.

by smash! on Aug 26, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regrettably

society has evolved to a confrontational edginess that sees little greyness in people. Good or bad. Beautiful or ugly. The media has promoted it by encouraging extreme behavior because it plays better on the news.

Man, it’s a crazy world out there. I’m glad they still have mute buttons and spam blockers.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you hit the nail on the head

But the media also make things seem worse than they are, so I think that it seems worse than it is.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see him

blaming the fans. I see him saying it’s hard to go out there and get no hits and get booed. If someone was following you around all day screaming “YOU SUCK” all the time, you’d be uncomfortable too.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I AM uncomfortable.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best

by Blue W on Aug 26, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the last 3 weeks

are a glimpse into what this team will be like for the next 2-3 years unless major changes are made.

by plenz on Aug 26, 2009 8:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We Now have 3 things certain in Life:

Death, Taxes, and the Cubs NEVER winning a WS in our lifetime…………..

"What we have here is a failure to communicate" - Strother Martin as "Captain"

by Icubsfan on Aug 26, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

4th certain thing

Soriano sucking at baseball for 5…count em folks…..5 more years

by plenz on Aug 26, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't know about that last one

The Cubs couldn’t win for the longest time because Philip Wrigley wasn’t exactly the brightest bulb in the box when it came to owners. The Tribune didn’t do it’s job either.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe that it will ever happen either

Just an endless line of excuses by all the broken down managers and front office people who failed to get the job done.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hello Sunshine

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Aug 26, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hello

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speak for yourself.

I plan on being around for a few more decades.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 26, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

first of all

I plan to live forever.

Second of all, the Cubs will win a WS.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont know what the offseason will bring....

but w/e it does I want the players that need surgery to go and get it now! I’m tired of hearing about Sori’s knees and Hami, go get em fixed if it can be done. Ramirez go get that shoulder fixed. Mr New Owner please make exercising/dieting a team policy for your mlb club that shouldn’t even have to be told this!

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 9:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Could have put together a better bench????

That is an understatement. Hendry tried to do what he thought Lou wanted and what could get the Cubs over the top……he failed….it happens. In retrospect he should have never traded Olson & Cedano for Heilman and we should have never traded for Gregg. Whether people agree or not Marmol had earned a chance at the closers job and as bad as Ronnie looked at times he is still better and cheaper than Miles. If those two trades don’t get made we have enough $$$ to keep DeRosa.

by Crazy Uncle Lou on Aug 26, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Like i have been saying...

We should take the book (not just a page) from the Cardinals. Build a foundation work with that at the beginning of the season, and then add pieces at All-star break. We took a good team, and broke away pieces before the season, thus we are a .500 team in late august.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hendry spent his money to start the season

The Cards held off until they saw how things went in the first half. Pretty obvious which one worked better.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Going 0-6 in consecutive playoff appearances will do that to you

Sure the Cubs had won consecutive division titles, but they weren’t winning anything beyond that. A few tweaks here and there might have helped, which is what they tried to do. Unfortunately, they tweaked the team in the wrong direction.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Sometimes these things pay off, and sometimes they don’t. But the wheels fell off for more reasons than that. A lot of career bad seasons for players, after a lot of career good seasons for players last year.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may be right

Lou’s big complaint as a result of the Dodgers series is that the Cubs weren’t left-handed enough. This got Fontenot his shot and the desire for Milton Bradley is what sealed Mark DeRosa’s fate. He was traded. There was no room for him in the new “more left-handed” Cubs lineup. They gave Aaron Miles a two-year deal and not only that, but Joey Gathright and Paul Bako were among Hendry’s offseason acquisitions to fill the left-handed void. The bullpen did not improve, which leaves me to believe that it was an afterthought. You can present any number of scenarios you want, but this was definitely a bad offseason. I’m not going to be a pessimist and say this lineup can’t be improved. It can. The bullpen needs to get shored up, which is a start.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Has Anyone Seen Larry ???

I for one have seen or heard very little discussion about our pitching coach. I was just wondering why.

On the just completed road trip, the starting pitching was darn good. The bats were no where to be seen or heard.

But after Z’s outing last night, the questions arise — season performance not just last week.

How many times this year have we seen Z struggle like he did last night? Too many times — excessive pitch count by the 5th innning, too many runs early in the game. For a guy who is supposed to be your #1, Z has fallen far short of those expectations.

Why is that? What is he doing wrong? Why don’t we see something different? Isn’t this something that the pitching coach should be doing? With the amount of dollars invested in Z and his continuing struggles, what is Larry doing with this guy?

What has Larry done to help Gregg and Heilman? In my opinion, Heilman wasdoomed to failure just based on his past lack of success with the Mets. Did the Cubs think that Larry would turn him around. Well, guess again — it ain’t working.

As for Gregg, he was mediocre with the Fish. Once again, did the Cubs think that Larry would change that? The results speak for themselves.

And how about Marmol? Why hasn’t Larry been able to correct Carlos’ problems. It certainly is not a health related issue. Shouldn’t the pitching coach be able to correct his problem? Isn’t that what he is hired to do?

You can say that Harden, Lilly, and possibly Dempster have been successful. Understandably — however, both Lilly and Harden were successful before they came to the Cubs. Dempster did a decent job as a closer and was converted to a starter. How much has Larry contributed to any of that?

I guess I have been watching and reading too much Deadbird material. I marvel at the success that Duncan has had in St. Louis. His successes with changing mediocre pitchers into success stories is hard to ignore.

Am I holding Larry up to Duncan — sure I am. Larry’s track record is far and away below that of the Deadbird pitching coach.

Removing Gerald Perry did not make a lot of sense.

Maybe the wrong guy was asked to leave?

by ceegeewow on Aug 26, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You left out a couple more Rothschild successes

Wells has been a huge bright spot.

Marshall has performed decently — for the most part — especially when you consider he has no idea what he will be asked to do from day to day.

I’m not a huge Rothschild fan, but to be fair, you need to add in more of his accomplishments.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marshall has been less than decent this year

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you consider

a 4.70 season era, and 7.71 since the all-star break remarkable then we have problems.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok

how about a 1.45 whip?

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

see my first reply to you

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Walking batters

is part of the equation, and if you ignore one part of a pitcher’s performance than any ordinary player (see Marshall) would look decent.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now we're going in circles...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, going back to your original reply

cause you stated without the walks he’s pitched remarkable well when clearly he hasn’t.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is a large part of ptching succesfully, I would not downplay the walks issue

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 26, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not downplaying it...

I’m saying that, given his role on the team…he’s done OK most of the time.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Drew, stop hacking SWL's account!

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hee hee

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Z

I’m not a huge Rothschild fan either but in the case of Zambrano, what is he supposed to do? At some point, the player has to take the advice. Larry can’t fix Zambrano by himself.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm positive

that at some point, Rothschild has tried to get Zambrano to calm down to start a game. Short of shooting him with an elephant tranq, I have no idea how he is supposed to force him.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 26, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

The athletes have to take the advice and execute. If Larry has found flaws in Z’s delivery or approach to hitters and Z agrees but doesn’t deliver, is it Larry’s fault? Ultimately, it’s all on the player.

Z is cocky and wants to succeed, but his bravado overshadows his skill sometimes. That’s what makes someone like Greg Maddux even more special. He was driven, but was always trying to improve, and not boasting about being a Cy Young winner. He worked hard, learned how to PITCH and actually HAS Cy Young awards. Z wants to be Babe Ruth, deep down.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 26, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In his mind

he is above the rules. He claims he’s older and wiser, but is he? Just once I’d like to hear him say he has taken someone’s advice. Until then, I,ll just believe he’s trying to game the system. He’d rather be a movie star than a team player.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can Larry ASAP

All his pitchers besides Lilly and Wells have underperformed. He’s a total joke compared to our rival’s PC down in STL.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

always has been

I don;t understand why he has been around for so long. He was mismanaging and telling pitchers the wrong thing since the Dusty Era.

by oeosoto on Aug 26, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really, dude?

Pitching is the least of this teams problems. What a truly ill-informed piece of commenting.

Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Aug 26, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question

I didn’t watch much of last night’s game. But the S-T mentioned a weak relay throw by Fontenot, without giving many details. Can someone tell me what happened?

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Weak isn't the word

He basically threw it in the ground. In the big picture though, it didn’t make much difference but it was pretty ugly. It might be available online. I haven’t bothered looking.

by rlpete on Aug 26, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, thanks

I take it the throw happened before the fifth?

Fontenot has been such a disappointment. He isn’t an Aaron Miles-style disaster, but he does NOT deserve to get any more starts. As I said in the preview thread yesterday, Fontenot is becoming Lou’s Neifi.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it happened before the roof caved in, it definitely could've altered the results of the game

Did it?

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it appeared as though

he wanted to throw home but changed his mind midway, and basically spiked the ball into the dirt. as ripete said, it didn’t make a difference.

I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)

by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Aug 26, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Front page of the most widely-read daily in Mexico

Link to their sports page:

Abuchean en casa a los Cachorros
Tras caer 15-6 ante los Nacionales de Washington, la novena de Chicago sumó su derrota 13 en 18 partidos y generó abucheos en el Wringley Field.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 9:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Wringley Field"?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 26, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least they didn't write Rickety Field

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where did you read Rickety Field?

That would be hilarious.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my own twisted and tormented brain

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking last night the cubs should go to a six man rotation

with all the injuries the pitchers have had it would be good to get them extra rest. It would give Randy Wells less innings which everyone wants and I think Gorzo should be starting. Once September 1st comes along you bring up Atkins, Berg, Shark, and Patton to have enough bullpen depth. I think the season is over and we should be careful with what we have and I think this gives the Cubs a chance to really look and Gorzo and see if they want to pay Harden or not. I know they won’t do it because it looks like they are giving up but in reality I think it may be the smartest move for the team present and future.

by oeosoto on Aug 26, 2009 10:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As stated many times

Zambrano is not an ace and really hasn’t been since 2006. His ERA each of the past 3 years has been 3.80 or higher; he doesn’t pitch deep in games, end losing streaks or lead by example. I can’t find an ‘ace’ qualifications other than many fans still have this utopian vision of the pitcher he is supposed to be (or sometimes is for 5-6 innings a game). The same way everyone considered Kerry Wood an ace after 2003 despite the fact he became a .500 pitcher for the remainder of his time as a starter.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Aug 26, 2009 10:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is anyone really claiming he's an ace?

Has he claimed to be an ace lately? Who are you addressing here? And why are you posting this if it’s been “stated many times”?

I don’t think Z is an ace either, but I do think – yeah, I still think – he’s a very good pitcher. And I would like as many of those as possible on my team.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 26, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody on this blog claims he's an ace.....

….yet there are always 50 posts on this blog how he isn’t one. It boggles the mind.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 26, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate to say it...

…but the Cubs haven’t had a true ace since Mark Prior was in one piece (mentally and physically). Beyond that, they have had some good pitchers, but none you could call a true stopper.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd probably go back to Suttcliffe...

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 26, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before Prior...

…it would have been Maddux.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually ...

Lieber was really good in 2001 — like 20-6. I think that qualifies.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For that season...

…you are right.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he had won as often on the road as at home,

I would completely agree. The differential made his “aceness” suspect.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do wins for pitchers matter?

Grienke is having a Cy Young season in KC, but he is 11-8. Does that mean he isn’t an ace?

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to go back in look but I believe his ERA and WHIP were

radically different as well.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and I'm not saying Dempster is or was an ace

Because what he was was a guy who worked extra hard and had career numbers in a contract year.

To save you time his ERA at home 2.86 on the road 3.13
WHIP at home 1.248 on the road 1.146

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 26, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

except when he crapped the bed in the playoffs

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 26, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+100

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's like saying

Greinke isn’t an ace because of his W-L record. Far too much comes into play for W-L to ever be counted in determining aces.

by rencelas on Aug 26, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wins are much harder for starters to get because of how bullpens are used

Starting pitchers are no longer expected to pitch complete games and pitch counts are monitored very religiously.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 26, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, according to those that are saying "Z isn't an ace"...

…it has EVERYTHING to do with won-loss record.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should've been sellers

I realize there wasn’t much of anything that other teams would be willing to buy because of their contracts, but I’m sure the Red Sox would’ve listened closely on DLee (I think I recall someone on here saying the Sox wouldn’t trade for another 1st baseman, but that’s exactly what they did). DLee may have been giddy enough to leave a sinking ship by waiving his no-trade clause. Many contending teams would have been interested in Aram, Harden, and Marmol as well.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

? I don't see how you can figure the Cubs should have been sellers.

On the morning of July 31, the Cubs were 7 games over .500 (54-47) a half game behind the Cardinals for first place in the division and two games AHEAD in the loss column. They were 1 game out of the Wild Card lead.

And, they had gone 7-3 in their last 10 games.

I realize hindsight is 20-20, but if the Cubs had started trading away and selling off their more marketable and productive players at that point, Hendry would have been hoisted atop the centerfield scoreboard …

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Aug 26, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

That’s true that they were only a .5 game behind the Cards, but IMO the writing was on the wall. The Cubs haven’t played well except for a small stretch at the beginning of the season and the second half (which was a result of playing inferior teams like the Nats). The fact is the Cubs are never sellers, and that is a main concern/reason why they can’t build a winner with young talent. At some point, the organizational philosophy needs to change cause the mentality of signing overrated, overpaid veterans hasn’t worked. Why were the Cubs so close to the WS in ’03? The answer lies in the young, talented starting pitching that was developed from within.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jim Riggleman said recently something like this about the Cubs' spending spree in recent

years…that money doesn’t win baseball games, ballplayers win baseball games. Just sayin’….

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Aug 26, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

The White Sox did something similar in the late 1990s, and fans were angry for years.

That said, the Cubs had unbelievably bad timing. Waiting until (essentially) right AFTER the trade deadline to implode was about the worst thing they could have done. If they had been eight games out on July 31, I think Hendry might have been a seller.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Fans were pissed, but it was essentially good for the long-term of the franchise. Now, the Pale-hose are always in the race, albeit a fairly poor division, and seem to have a good foundation of young talent mixed in with better than average veterans.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it's cause and effect

The trades 10 years ago aren’t still helping the White Sox win.

Anyway, I’m glad the Cubs weren’t sellers at the deadline, given where they were in the standings. I’m upset that they so utterly fell to pieces this month.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only Keith Foulke and Bob Howry became useful players in that trade

Unless the 1 year of Mike Caruso counts, too.

While both Foulke and Howry helped the Sox, I think it’s a bit ingenuous to say the White Flag Trade helped set the foundation for the team’s success today.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Aug 26, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

but the way they somewhat changed their philosophy did.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How did the philosophy change in 1997?

I would say it changed when Ozzie took over in 2004.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Aug 26, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question: Why is our throwaway Jason Marquis 14-8 with an ERA of 3.47

and our premier starter Carlos Z. is 7-5 with an ERA of 3.80?

And Marquis pitches in Coors Field.

This is such a Cubbie Occurance….

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Aug 26, 2009 11:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you realize

that pitchers don’t control everything that happens in a game, right?

A lot of Cubs have had down years. It happens. Sometimes I think the expectation levels around here are unattainable.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, come on Drew ...

Expectation levels are unattainable? Did you expect the Cubs to be eight games back on Aug. 26? The Cubs have a $140 million payroll filled with All-Stars and were the consensus pick to win the Central. The expectations weren’t unattainable — they just weren’t attained by this team.

Granted, no one predicted that Jason Marquis would have such a good year. But the Cubs SERIOUSLY screwed up when they traded him for nothing AND agreed to pay part of his salary.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rockies

They’re building a winner, and shows the rest of the league (besides the Cubs) how to build a great team without spending gobs of money.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't calling them great

just using them as an example of how most “winning” teams are assembled these days.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rockies remind me of the

2003 Marlins, 52-22 since Tracy took over, win games late, decent bullpen. They got a shot.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 26, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

The last two nights were examples of that.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 26, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it's a down year.

BULLCRAP! Can’t we ever hold one of your beloved Cubs accountable for his pittiful performance? That’s what’s wrong with this team, the manager just tips his cap, the players say they’ll get em tomorrow, the kool-aid drinkers blame it on a “bad day”, “bad week”, or “bad year”. It’s time hold the players and manager accountable! If Lou can’t come up an excuse better than that, see ya later.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

kool-aid drinkers

While you’re not far off on how they respond to losses, I want to make a point that I often make around here:

FANS HAVE LITTLE, IF ANY, BEARING ON HOW A TEAM PERFORMS.

One ‘problem’ with the Cubs is that if super-fans like us gnash our teeth and refuse to buy tickets, beer, etc., Wrigley will STILL almost always sell out. This isn’t Cincinnati, where fans will only fill the park if the team plays well. And, yes, I know that the park wasn’t filled last night — but the game was still a sellout. That’s because fans have to buy tickets so far in advance.

Something similar happened at the end of 2006, but the Cubs went out and spent so much in the offseason that the ballpark was full again in early 2007. My guess is the Cubs will do enough after this disaster of a season to renew fan optimism, and the team will draw sellouts again.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Game wasn't a sellout

Attendance is reported as tickets sold, not those actually in attendance.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm aware of your second point

And sorry — I thought it was a sellout. 41,000-plus paid, though.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope.

37,297

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry --

misunderstood Al’s post. You’re right.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No worries, cat.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the money Hendry...

…has spent (in a relatively weak division), the expectations are by no means too high.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why ask why

why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway?

by LT on Aug 26, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is there brail on a drive through

Why do Hot Dogs come in packages of 10 but hot dog buns come in packages of 8

Why are Jeans plural

I could probably go on for days…if I think hard enough

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Aug 26, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...beats ace high.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 26, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does a living room really live?

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For one thing, I heard

them discussing this Monday on the MLB channel. They believe it’s a confluence of circumstances.

Marquis came to Colorado with a damaged reputation and a desire to make things right. He listened to Colorado coaches to throw sinkers and pitch to ground ball contact. Doing those things with pretty decent defense behind him and his durability make a good combination in Colorado. It’s not like he turned into Nolan Ryan overnight.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

trouble is ...

why couldn’t the Cubs coaches make him do the same thing?

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing wrigley doesn't have the same park factors that

make coaches force the style to skew in a certain direction.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ground Balls

are a good thing in any park.

by azjazzman on Aug 26, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed, and fly balls don't fly out of Coors

as often since the humidor. However, it appears Rockies management/coaching is still gunshy.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but it worked

Marquis has four more wins than any of our starters.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care about his wins, but that he's

averaging 6.84 innings per start with a 3.47 ERA.

He’s still had some horrific starts, but been strong against the good teams.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

Still, it was a bad move to dump him for nothing.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing with

Coors is not so much the balls that fly out of the park, but rather the balls in the gaps in the outfield.

by azjazzman on Aug 26, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is funny...

No one likes Marquis, but there is a good chance, that for the past however many years he will be playing on a playoff team. Interesting huh?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because he wouldn't listen and keep going back to his fastball

Same thing happened in St Lou till he finally drove Duncan and Larussa nuts. His stubborness cost us dearly.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was his stubborness that drove him out of St Lou and then Chicago

The light must’ve finally clicked on in Colo.

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was a better argument to make in Colorado

I don’t know their defensive stats this year, but they have most of the same parts as their World Series team, and that team set records for defensive acumen. There is a good reason be more comfortable getting ground balls hit to their middle infield than ours.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Hampton says the schools are much better too... ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 26, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn't

Dave Duncan have probably mentioned the sinker/ground ball thing while Marquis was in St. Louis?

I’m guessing Marquis is having a good year. His best in his career, most likely. He’s not as good as he has been this year.

by rencelas on Aug 26, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Lohse, too

Oh, whoops, I accidentally pointed out that the Cardinals sometimes overpay people, too.

Some forms of frustration here are hard to take, but this idealization of the Cards is going a little overboard.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All teams make mistakes

the consistent winners are ones who keep their mistakes to a minimum, and make moves to correct mistakes when they can. Where you get in trouble is where you make a series of mistakes that you won’t, or can’t correct or recover from.

by azjazzman on Aug 26, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The inference I heard was his damaged

ego had him listening and following the coaching instructions.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty close to giving up on this team

I don’t have the extra innings package and I don’t live near Chicago, so when the games are not on national TV (and I’m not at work) I typically walk down to the local sports bar to watch, as I did last night. I’m one of these people who NEVER leaves a game or turns it off early. I bailed during the 7th inning when it was 15-5 (admittedly, part of the reason was because I was sitting between an unattractive cougar who kept buying me drinks for helping her with trivia questions, and a nerd who felt the need to give me every detail involving his EA Sports NCAA football 2010 dynasty, but I digress) and didn’t even bother to listen to the rest of it. 15-5, at home, in what is as close to a “must win” game as you can have in August…to the freaking Nationals!?!? Enough is enough. I’m just ready for it to be over.

by CrimsonCub on Aug 26, 2009 11:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Move

to the other side of the cougar as long as she’s buying and leave the college football dude by himself. And relax! It’s over.

by racertom on Aug 26, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense...

man, but just short of getting kicked in the family jewels, your night was just horrible.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

clearly not enough to go...

home with her though.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 26, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking for a big win to start a streak at home...

…but last night was sort of like his season to date. Zambrano was likely not sharp with his control after being off for a while, it happens sometimes. Unfortunately, this team has put itself in a position where there is almost no margin for error or bad luck.

by DudeVf11 on Aug 26, 2009 12:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't want to discuss the Cubs failures...

did anyone notice in the 9th that MB was batting left handed, but took a right handed practice cut in between pitches? I haven’t seen him do that this year, might have just been an accident on his part, but I was just curious if this is something he has done in the past?

This is insignificant, but something besides being blasted by the Nats to talk about.

Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...

by slocs55 on Aug 26, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nat blasting.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed that...

…and then he did a left handed practice swing right after. Maybe something to do with his swing mechanics? I have no clue.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 26, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've seen him do it before

I think it is a way he stretches

"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."
-- Dan Quayle

by LAcarl519 on Aug 26, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just listened to "All the Way" by Eddie Vedder...

That song always brings a tear to my eye, because everything seemed so perfect last year, and then it went straight to hell in the blink of an eye.

This year has just been a total disaster…it’s very depressing to see the fruits of Jim Hendry’s master plan on the field right now.

by cubfanwill on Aug 26, 2009 1:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not going to listen to that song until I feel some "magic" like I felt last year, or 2003, or earlier....

I never felt much magic with this team.

Also, I’m not crazy about a manager who puts in Aaron Miles to PH, or Aaron Heilman for relief. I’m not a fan of a left fielder who does a bunny hop to catch a ball—even while he has a bad leg. Sheesh.

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Aug 26, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said...

It’s been a complete disaster.

by cubfanwill on Aug 26, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that a bunny hop

Would be keeping the two feet together while hopping. Not sure what kind of hop Sori is doing.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7D8aDp3RUs

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein

by eths on Aug 26, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WTF?

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Aug 26, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope I never hear that funeral dirge again.

Tell Eddie Vedder and his sappy song to stay way until after we’ve actually won something!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't make sense

If “Someday” has already happened.

Of course, listening to a wistful Irish drinking song makes no sense when the team is great, but people loved it last year for some reason.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know why people like it. Everyone I know hated that stupid song.

I just don’t want any more songs written or pawned on us until we actually win a damn world series!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, taste is subjective

But having said that, some people would buy barking dogs performing “Take Me Out To The Ballgame” if the dogs on the cover artwork had Cubs hats on.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is true, taste is subjective

Where can I get that barking dogs album?

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

:)

If anyone from the marketing department is reading this post, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was available for Christmas!

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

An Alvin and the Chipmunks version of Go Cubs Go

would be awesome!!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 26, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's two

I figure you need at least 10 to have something sellable.

How about Josie and the Pussycats performing “The Chicago Cubs Song”? (Hey, hey, holy mackerel)

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

♫ "I just want a vic-tor-y!" ♫

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 26, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Win

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blame to go all the way around.

I just don’t think this team came out prepared to start the season, always looking at “well there are plenty of season left”. Sure injuries hampered this team, they affect all teams. Hendrys moves that have been poor for this club this year have been well chronicled.
 However in my humble opinion, this team lacks heart, desire and the belly to be a champ. It just seems this team when it had to come up big, starting with the Phillie series did not come ready to play. The most important time of year this Cub team failed to get it done. There is no excuse for there lack luster play this year. The whole franchise should be to blame and be embarrassed.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 26, 2009 2:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No heart, no leadership.

There’s no leader on this team…and the ones they did have (DeRo and Woody) are out of the picture. Seems as though the entire team has a ho-hum attitude, and there’s no one w/ the balls to right the ship.

I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)

by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Aug 26, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly, he has too many. Lou lacks Strikes.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No marbles!

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fontenot in 10 years

Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!

by jesus christos on Aug 26, 2009 4:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's now been about 8 minutes

and I can’t stop looking at this. It’s so hypnotic.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

its because its

RAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLL

Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!

by jesus christos on Aug 26, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and ESPN wipes off it's chin and stands up.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Finally...some sanity.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You want some insanity to balance things out?

Soriano is in tonight’s starting lineup, per both Sullivan and Wittenmyer.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

tell me Miles is in there too and I will take extra pain pills before the game

"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."
-- Dan Quayle

by LAcarl519 on Aug 26, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Miles

cst_cubs Sori back in for now. Lineup: riot, milt, lee, rami, fuky, sori, baker, hill, harden.

by chilango2 on Aug 26, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah!

lets have someone play while they have tendinitis!

Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!

by jesus christos on Aug 26, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess Lou feels like we knee'd Fonzi's bat...or is it his hop?

"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."
-- Dan Quayle

by LAcarl519 on Aug 26, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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