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What Can I Do? Management, Players and Fans

There's been a lot of angst on BCB and, I'm sure, plenty of other Cubs sites and in bars and livingrooms throughout the country as this team, hailed as the winners of two division titles two years running, and the presumptive favorites for 2009, has scuffled, struggled, slumped and struggled again.

A lot of invective has been thrown around. People want to be able to blame someone for the dissapointments of 2009 -- and while I continue to suggest that it's not over till the Cubs are mathematically eliminated, I still recognize that the season, in general, has been a dissapointment.

So one person that fans throw curses at is Hendry. We blame him for the makeup of the team. Miles. Heilman. Gregg. Gathright. The huge contracts to Soriano and Z. The mid-season pickups -- Freel comes to mind. We blame him for who he let go -- Woody, arguably the heart of the Cubs from a fan point of view, and DeRosa.

Now, don't get me wrong. I wanted to keep Woody (at least till I knew how much he wanted) and I certainly didn't want to trade DeRosa. But it's easy to be a fan and say "well, the money shouldn't matter". But as GM, Hendry has to balance revenue and payments and compensation. It's even easier to say "he should have known Miles sucks!" Aaron Mile may have had a career year last year, but no one could have predicted that he would simply forget how to play baseball.

Hiring and drafting players is a job of judging potential and upside. Hindsight is 20/20. GMs don't have the benefit of it before they make their decisions.

Furthermore, a lot of the time we hear "DFA" or "trade the contract at any cost!" But this ain't fantasy baseball. You don't trade a big contrat player just because he slumps, even if it's as big a slump as Soriano's. That's for two reasons, of course -- the first being that with the way Soriano is playing, why the hell would anyone pick that monster contract up? And the second is the reason why Derrek Lee is still on this team -- he had a terrible start to the year, but now, he's approaching some extremely good numbers.

There is valid criticism of Hendry -- he does hand out NTCs like they're candy, and he does have a tendency to bid against himself. But a player like Alfonso Soriano is EXACTLY the kind of player Cubs fans were screaming for in 2006.

The second person people crucify is Piniella. "What can I say?" "We're gonna try to get Fox in the lineup as often as possible." "We have to hit to drive in runs." We all know the lines Piniella gives the press, and no one likes them. I'd suggest that this is more the fault of the Press than it is Piniella's, but that's irrelevant. People say he's washed up. He doesn't care anymore. He's stupid. He's an idiot. He can't manage pitchers. He can't manage any players at all.

Let's be quite clear here -- you don't have the level of success that Lou Piniella has without being a good manager and knowing a lot about the game of baseball. But perhaps even more importantly, you can only play the team you have. Heilman goes into games because he warms up quickly, and it's no big deal to burn him for one inning or one batter. Yes, he has struggled greatly. But what, exactly, is Lou supposed to do? (I ask this question a lot.) This is the team he has. He and Hendry work to make the team better. But he cannot pitch for Marmol. He cannot throw for Theriot. He cannot bat for Miles. And he owes no one an apology. It's his job to go out and manage the team and -- just like Hendry -- judge potential and upside. Soriano batted leadoff for as long as he did because he has proven success there, and it's got NOTHING to do with him having some kind of hold on Piniella, or Piniella not being able to manage his players. Fontenot was the starting 2b at the beginning of the season because, in Piniella's judgment, Fonty could do it.

Again, there's valid criticism of Piniella -- why he keeps putting Miles out there is inexplicable. But having expectations of perfection from any manager is a guarantee to frustration. To suggest that he doesn't care anymore is ridiculous. If he didn't care, he wouldn't look like he's about to vomit all the time.

Then, of course, there's the players. The players shoulder a LOT of blame, for playing a game at a level that all of us wish we could play at -- and probably none of us can. These guys work hard. But the amount of derision and scorn that is heaped upon them borders on inconceivable. Soriano doesn't care. Bradley is a crybaby. Bradley is a mentally ill person. Bradley should shut up. Bradley should talk to the press more. Ramirez is a loafer. Lee is in free-fall. Soto is fat. Z is garbage. Miles is garbage. Heilman is garbage. Marmol is garbage. Gregg is garbage.

These guys make a LOT of money. Even the league minimum is a lot of money. I'd happily wash used jockstraps by hand for that much money. And these guys get to play a game and get paid for it!

But they work very hard. I don't know how people can suggest that they don't. I HATE going to the gym. With a passion. I NEVER get the seratonin boost from exercise that other people get. For me, hell is the treadmill. For these guys, it's every day. Yes, sometimes they slack, like Soto appeared to do. Sometimes they say they don't like to do Abs, like Z. Sometimes they get dehydrated. Sometimes they get hurt. Sometimes they pull a bonehead play. You think Aaron Miles likes to suck at baseball? Dood hit over .300 last year. How can it NOT hurt?

These guys represent our hopes and dreams for a world series. It's easy to get angry. But really -- while someone from the Cubs organization may read this blog, I doubt it has significant impact on Club decisions. So, when someone goes off on Hendry or Piniella or Miles for this or that or the other thing, who is it really effecting? Your fellow fans.

And then we argue, like we always do. The fact of the matter is, WE ARE OWED NOTHING. And we have NO insight into what goes on inside that clubhouse, or between players, except when it breaks into the public view, like the Z/Barrett fight, or Braun complaining that the Brewers don't need more pitchers. That's right. I brought up the Brewers. What the hell happened to THEM?

Anyway. This has turned into a mish-mash. Here's what I'm trying to get at:

No one is slacking. Not Hendry, not Lou, not any of the players. None of these guys are stupid. None of these guys are head-cases. None of them are garbage. None of them deserve to die in a fire, or be sent to AAA when they're 5 year veterans. No one's going to DFA Miles when there's millions left on his contract, and no one's going to trade for Soriano.

It's been a frustrating season. I still hold out hope. I know there are plenty who don't, and I respect that. But I ask that you have respect for the people who give us the experience of watching the Cubs in the first place. Primarily, that's Hendry, Piniella, and the players. And let's try to respect each-other. I could use work at that myself.

And let's temper our expectations.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

Comment 94 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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So basically what your saying is...

Do what we have all been doing our entire lives! Accept losing while continuing to spend w/e it is each and everyone can afford to support this team. Say nothing because it may offend another fan? I really don’t understand the point of this entire post other then to make yourself feel better by getting it all off your chest for w/e reason.

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 1:01 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

no. But we could be respectful. The post about how booing has to stop is saying much of the same thing.

We as fans have no impact on the team. That means that all the hate and anguish and complaining ends up hitting what it’s not aimed at — each-other.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

We as fans have alot of impact on the Team

 I think as a whole we tend to go about getting what we want in the wrong way but don’t think we don’t have an impact.

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt that the fans have much impact

beyond money!
i think that the ONLY way for fans of all teams to actually have an impact is to quit paying the price they’re charging. Suck it up for a few seasons without baseball and just stop going to the games.
Of course it would have to be done en-mass, which will never happen.
But it really is the only way for the fans to bring down the big money that is being thrown around and causing all kinds of problems in baseball..including steroids. The owners are still afraid of collusion but the fans can’t be charged with it.
unfortunately, people in general let themselves be led like cattle.
so, as long as we keep supporting them i guess we can’t lay all the blame elsewhere, can we?

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 26, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your first sentence IS the impact

It is the ONLY impact. I doubt we’ll see this any time soon at Wrigley since it’s a 41,160 seat outdoor beer garden. Some shreads of it are happening now, seeing empty bleacher seats that last 2 games. Could get worse. But the problem is those seats were mostly if not all sold.

The key would be not to have those sold at all, to anyone.

Only a precipitous drop in paid-tickets (not empty seats like we saw at the end of 2006) for the ENTIRE season would work. And when I say precipitous I mean less than 2,000,000 total sold. That would represent a 40% drop from the all-time high at Wrigley and represent a true hit in revenue.

Cubs fans are victims of their own desire to “finally see them do it” phenomena. We pack the place every year (3M+ starting in 2003; I count the playoffs). I’ll be guilty of if 32 times this season alone. Staying away in droves will be the ONLY way to make a long-term correction. But I doubt many of us will be willing to make that sacrifice, especially with an ST waiting list in excess of 100,000.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

you wouldn't know respect if it hit a walk-off home run

Respect is accepting when people get frustrated and not questioning their degree of commitment.
Respect is not trying to explain to everyone why their thoughts about what went wrong are incorrect.
Respect is what I used to have for you until you posted this trash.

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 27, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

well.

that’s, um, interesting. I haven’t questioned anyone’s commitment. Although a whole lot of people questions players’ commitment all the time.

You’re welcome to your opinion, I suppose.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

people seem to forget

that many fans were screaming in agreeance with Lou and Hendry

Fontenot was the starting 2b at the beginning of the season because, in Piniella’s judgment, Fonty could do it.

I questioned in Font could be the everyday, and was bashed for it by many. I even tried to use the age factor (as was used against Hoff) and was still bashed. Fans can sit back and say “wtf, why, why, why” as they change their opinion fast and often. The manager and gm cannot change the roster as fast or as often.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 26, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions  

"No one's going to DFA Miles when there's millions left on his contract"

bull. The Cubs will eat the remainder of his contract. Just watch. MLB teams do this all the time.

by Neifi Puppy on Aug 26, 2009 1:07 PM CDT reply actions  

if it happens

it’ll happen in the offseason. People were screaming DFA in June.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

And releasing him now is pretty pointless.

However, I don’t think he should play any more.

Perhaps the Cubs will be able to deal him in an exchange of perceived bad contracts.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Aug 26, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

does Baltimore need a 2B.....

/sarcasm

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 26, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Drew I am usually with you on a lot of issues here

But after this idk, its just a lot of defending the team.
Explain how you feel about Soriano. He clearly hasnt been hustling in the outfield these past few months. Now we find out he has been playing injured. Someone has to be at fault for that. If you dont have someone going 100% you cant trot him out there every day.

Tweeting about the Cubs most of the time from @jmkobus

by jkobus on Aug 26, 2009 1:15 PM CDT reply actions  

perhaps

it was simply that they didn’t feel that they could spare him. Or that they didn’t want to DL him when Rami was on the DL already.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Drew, I respect your feelings,

but this blog is about discussing the Cubs, both good and bad. Why can’t we complain about how Lou manages this ballclub? Why does he bring in Heilman with the bases loaded when Heilman is at his worst with inherited runners. Or moving Dome out of the leadoff spot when we were winning with him at leadoff.

You can sit back and just root for the team. But most of us are here to discuss the Cubs and the decisions they make.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 1:26 PM CDT reply actions  

I have no problem

with discussion. It’s the insulting (Lou is senile) and lack of basic knowledge about baseball operations (DFA Soriano) that I am trying to draw attention to.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

okay fair enough, but do you actually think someone calling Lou senile is being literal?

Or just trying to be funny.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't find much humor

in most of the insults that have been thrown in the direction of Lou, Hendry or the players.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Everyone has a diiferent point as to where the line should be.

Some take any criticism as a personal attack on the player. Some go off, using politics and race. I think the hordes of posters here keep the majority in line here. And we collectively get to decide where the line is.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe Drew is senile

/sarcasm

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 26, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your right it does

No I don’t think Drew is senile.

But just like we don’t know the players lots of us don’t know what each other day to day life is about.

I’ll use Blou as an example

We can ponder Blou and his pessism… but we have no way of knowing if he’s really the pathic little man he appears to be on this forum.

Anymore than we know if Soto’s actually trying to lose weight or not.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 26, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe Blou is a priest

and he uses BCB to release his demons

/SARCASM

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 26, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been reading his demons alot lately

There are alot of them. :)

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a medical fact that optimists live longer than pessimists

Of course that means you’ll get a few more years rooting for this terrible franchise than the rest of the critics, but hey, maybe they’ll have it turned around by then. Look at that!! I’m thinking they might actually turn things around! Your rose-coloured glasses really do work!

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 26, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions  

i respect you 100% Drew

But I have to disagree with you on this one. As fans, we have every right to criticize decisions made by the front office, the decisions made by the coaching staff, and the performance of the players on the field. I agree that Lou hates losing, but you also have to look at it from a fan’s perspective. Sitting in my living room, I have absolutely no control over this team. If I see Marmol inviting guys on base, I can’t call down and get Marshall warming up. I can’t write out a lineup card sans a lollygagging Soriano or struggling Fonty. My point is, Lou has the capability to try and fix this team much more than we do. He was hired, if you will, as our delegate to manage this team. I don’t expect any apologies from him, and I don’t feel he owes any, but dammit I feel like he has made many mistakes this year, and as a fan I have every right to criticize him, jim, and the players for letting me down.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Aug 26, 2009 1:39 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I think

maybe I haven’t gotten my point across, and that’s my fault.

I think there’s plenty of valid criticism of Hendry, Lou and the players to be made. I’m trying to point at that the invalid criticism doesn’t help, and can hinder relationships with other fans.

Maybe I should just delete the post…

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

the invalid criticisms

Bother me as well. Believe me, you are not alone in that. As far as hindering the relationships between fans, I feel like I’ve gained friends on this site from discussing (not always agreeing with) issues. Of course, those people that suggest nonsense typically don’t stick around long enough to offer stimulating conversation, anyway.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Aug 26, 2009 1:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

+1

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I got off track by this comment from yours:
These guys represent our hopes and dreams for a world series. It’s easy to get angry. But really — while someone from the Cubs organization may read this blog, I doubt it has significant impact on Club decisions. So, when someone goes off on Hendry or Piniella or Miles for this or that or the other thing, who is it really effecting? Your fellow fans.

I took that as trying to quiet down the criticisms.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 26, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

alright.

I didn’t intend it as such, but more as a way for us to recognize that what we say effects other people around us.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

We can't change what has already been done

There’s really no reason to try and to continue to bitch/moan/complain. Derosa wasn’t gonna make this team a playoff team alone. Yes he would have made it better and yes I’m talking like the season is over as much as I hate to do that.

I think what we need to do is find a way to make this team better going forward. My biggest problem is organizational accountability! From top to bottom there is way to many chiefs and often the Indians are used out of place.

Lou this isn’t 1990 and Jim this isn’t the Steinbrennars ownership group. With that being said it’s still players that win the games on the field not the management. Hopefully the new owner can address the accountability issue.

Soriano has been unhealthy for a couple years now. My guess he’s has a torn hami and a knee that needs some arthroscopic surgery. If that’s the case, it’s time to go get er’ done Sori. That will allow plenty of time to feel.

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 2:01 PM CDT reply actions  

if soriano had a torn hammy

he probably wouldnt be able to run

Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!

by jesus christos on Aug 26, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm no Medical Person....

And have no inside info but I think Sori has been playing hurt for 2 years. I don’t even know if some sorta surgery would help but if it would now’s the time and he needs to get it done is what I’m getting at.

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

You last paragrapgh Craig is a good one

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 26, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome!

Your last paragraph is the best I have read on this blog in a long time. Very, very well put.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 26, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I took your medicine...........

………Craig, in October of last year.

After two garbage games at Wrigley, a buddy of mine mentioned as we were leaving the park that “perhaps it is time to become a more casual fan”. I really took that idea to heart, and while very few believed I could stay away, I’ve dramatically toned down my level of concern for this team. And based on the results of 2009, I couldn’t be happier with my decision.

There is some hope with the new ownership, although the endorsement of Kenney does make you wonder if change is anywhere on the horizon. I read Carol Slezak’s article in the Sun-Times yesterday (if interested www.suntimes.com/sports/slezak/1732686,CST-SPT-carol25.article) and she hit home with some very solid points. If Ricketts wants to get the franchise on track, he need look no further than 35th & Shields.

Anyway, suspect the ticket office was about to hit the “send” key on playoff ticket invoices, but the Nats drubbing of the home team last night may have laid rest to such preposterous thoughts.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Aug 26, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well said Craig.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 26, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, well done Craig

I still will never forget Lou walking out to the mound in San Diego looks down at the pen and realizes no one is warming up and then goes back to the dugout. ( I Believe it was San Diego)
 Lou needs to take his share of fault for this teams performance this year.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Aug 26, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know

that’s not what he was doing, right?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 27, 2009 3:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was the IBB he wanted issued

and how to pitch to the next batter. Obviously it didn’t work since the guy hit a 1-1 pitch for a walk-off 3R HR.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

There will always be

second guessing and disagreements over what has and should be done. That’s the nature of being a fan. Even in good years, there were still criticisms. Obviously a terrible year evokes a higher level of scorn. But you are absolutely correct in criticizing the personalization of too many remarks.

However, in the end, some people will never change. It would be nice if everyone played nice and didn’t personalize. But we can all notice the ones who constantly go over the line seem to get called on it more often as time goes on. That seems to be the only remedy available.

Now let’s all have a group hug.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Aug 26, 2009 3:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Exactly!
There will always be second guessing and disagreements over what has and should be done. That’s the nature of being a fan.

That’s the beauty of the whole thing and that’s why baseball or as a matter of fact any other major sport is a zillion dollar industry. It’s really a kids game with all the hoopla. If fans don’t care or second guess no one would buy jerseys or hats or get attached to Wrigley field etc etc.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 26, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's completely wrong

A fan follows his team blindly and roots for the players even if they are a bunch of underachieving, overpaid lazy bums and never acknowledges anything is amiss until the team is mathematically eliminated from the postseason. Miracles have happened before. Keep the faith!

/sarc

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Aug 27, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I recall...

…before the season, mentioning the last time a team was penciled in as division champs (as the Cubs were for 09) was the Tigers team from last year.

Now, I didn’t think this team would flop the way it did, but you could also see the potential problems brewing before 09. The Cubs have not gotten the “bang for the buck” for what they have invested in players, and they certainly have developed very few of their own. At some point, this catches up with you, and it usually comes quickly when you mix in injuries and players who were either mismatched for the club, or simply didn’t perform to expectations. I felt a while ago the window for this core group would close after 09, and sadly, I do believe that is likely. The next Cub team that is a serious WS contender will probably look a lot different than the one you see today.

One sign of good baseball organizations is they don’t have years where they absolutely self destruct. They may not make the playoffs every year, but their core strength allows them to at least be competitive in the years they miss the playoffs. A lot has to happen for the Cubs to get the organization to this level.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 26, 2009 3:27 PM CDT reply actions  

umm..
They may not make the playoffs every year, but their core strength allows them to at least be competitive in the years they miss the playoffs.

That sounds a lot like the Cardinals

by cubsnlinux on Aug 26, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I'm reading this

The scene from Fever Pitch where the guys are all upset and bummed out over the lost. They notice some players at the same place they are and they (Players) are having a good time.

I’m not saying they are doing this but my point is we don’t know. So hence why there is going to be debates. B/c we want to think we do.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 26, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Crappy movie, but a good scene.

These guys love the game of baseball, but it’s still a job where the adage of where else are you a hero when you fail 2/3 of the time really applies.

The team, Bradley included, have to live their lives and can’t take every loss or strikeout to heart. Like every office, there will be players who over achieve, some who under achieve, some who care and some who don’t.

Bradley hasn’t earned a fraction of the crap he’s taken. If you have to boo him, do it after he K’s to end the inning with RISP, not when he jogs out for introductions or before the first pitch of an at bat. One is dissapointment with the outcome in that situation, the others are personal.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 26, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

terrible baseball

can be like the circus. you watch it waiting to see when the lion is going to eat the caretaker

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 26, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well stated.

Rec’d

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Aug 26, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

you think this post

is inflammatory?

Ok.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do, actually

You called out posters, not by name, for how they react to a miserable Cubs season. Given the number of posts lately about not booing, being good fans and other behavioral suggestions, it’s a sore subject.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

The two people who argue with Drew the most agree with each other. What. A. Shock.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Aug 26, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't realize I was in that elete category

I happen to disagree a lot with Drew — and I’m pretty tired of being told how to be a fan, quite frankly.

by elgato on Aug 26, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's on a daily basis...

with this poster!

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Appalled?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 26, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree, specifically with the comment

“I’m sick to death of some BCBers telling others how to behave…”.

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 26, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

There could be some

very interesting sociological and psychological studies performed just based on BCB fanposts and game threads.

I’m fairly new to this site, meaning I’ve only become active in it since the 07’, so I’m not entirely used to there being such dissidence between fans. It’s like their are many little camps people place themselves in

“This seasons is over” vs “there is still baseball to play”
“It’s Lou’s fault” vs “the players are underperforming”
“too high of expectations” vs “we should expect the best”

When did we forget we are all Chicago Cubs fans?

by CubsFan87 on Aug 26, 2009 4:43 PM CDT reply actions  

I doubt that.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be skepticism.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Aug 26, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

The players most reviled are really not the problem

I’ll just echo what has been said many times here – which is that I don’t come on this board and tell anyone how to be a ‘proper fan,’ yet that is what many people here seem to do and it is often those who post often and assign themselves some sort of elevated importance on the site.

If I were a Pirates fan I’d be disappointed with another losing season but recognize the small payroll and that the losing season doesn’t necessarily correspond to players underperforming or managers not managing well. But as a Cubs fan in 2009, with a sky-high payroll and more than enough talent on this team (even with injuries) to be doing far better than a .500 record, it is more than justifiable to call out the organization from top to bottom. That said, I do find all of the ranting against Miles, Heilman, Bradley quite comical. Miles could bat .050 and it would have very little to do with the problems on this team. This is an organizational failure from top to bottom.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Aug 26, 2009 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

I am very disappointed in this season but

I am trying to look on the bright side, the Cubs have been to the playoffs the last 2 years (who would have thought that after 2006). We must finish strong this year and if we fall short, we must work hard this off season (front office & players) to come back next year with an improved team. The baseball season is very long and the Cubs have had some bad luck with injuries and vetrans who have struggled, it happens. If the Cubs make the playoffs 3 times in 5 years and compete deep into the other seasons I am happy. If that contiues to happen in the near future the Cubs will break thru and make it to the World Series. Let’s realize we are all Cubs fans and not come down on each others faults and the teams faults also. When times are tough you find out who is your true supporters.

I will continue to watch and show my support.

Go Cubs Go!

by Cubsfan Waveland on Aug 26, 2009 4:52 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree with part of this

Certainly it is ridiculous, no matter how large a payroll is, to expect a team to get to the playoffs every year. We can want that to happen but have to have some sense of reality. But…I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a team that makes the playoffs to not get swept every year, or that it would be nice to win a SINGLE playoff game every 5 years. We haven’t won a single playoff game since 2003, so with this season over we are talking a minimum of 7 years between playoff wins. So sure, let’s be real about expectations but winning a playoff game every decade is more than reasonable.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Aug 26, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Expectations

IMO – The franchise does “owe” the fans. Tickets are paid for by the fans for attendance at games, and revenue from other sources is directly or indirectly supplied by the fans. No, they can’t guarantee a WS title every year or even a postseason birth every year. So, the fans’ perspectives on where winning fits-in or how proof of competiveness fits-in vary.

by AboutTheCubs on Aug 26, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Reasons

To be disgusted with the 2009 Cubs:

Pathetic ABs by essentially everyone in key situations

Poor defensive range and play at too many key positions

Lack of foresight in constructing the team/ ie no Aram backup

Too many knuckleheads on the roster

Sluggish managing

This season is not the result of any single failure, but a culmination of
each of the factors IMO.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Aug 26, 2009 8:57 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Which Cubs fans?

“But a player like Alfonso Soriano is EXACTLY the kind of player Cubs fans were screaming for in 2006.”

Good heavens, what knuckleheads could possibly have been screaming for Fonzie or someone like him (technically, an impossibility since he is the sine qua non of his type.)

Mr. Soriano was precisely the player we didn’t need – undisciplined, rash, lacking strike zone judgement and control, not fundamentally sound, a bad defender even at a position that’s not defense-oriented, possessing a young player’s talents but going into the chronological downside of his career. Sheesh!

Drewish David, I like your stuff. You’re interesting and passionate. But this very statement indicates what’s wrong with too many Cubs fans – seeing a player (or the entire team) as you wish him to be rather than as he really is.

Joe, you coulda made us proud!

by copingwiththecubs on Aug 26, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions  

People wanted

a big FA signing. Having lost Carlos Lee and gotten roasted for it, Hendry went after another big FA signing. Soriano brings power to the plate, and that’s what people wanted.

I’m not suggesting that there wasn’t opposition. But it was what many people wanted. And for two years, at least, Soriano has delivered. It remains to be seen what will happen for the remainder of his contract.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 26, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most of us

were not happy with giving Soriano a eight year deal. Personally, I thought Soriano had about 3-4 good years left in him. Take his signing for what it is, Hendry trying to make a splash and badly overpaying for a player that was flawed. Thinking that Soriano would become our starting CF was just poor thinking and quite optimistic. The same type of thinking that gave Jeff Spellcheck a $10MM deal which looks very similar to the #1 pick this year.

by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 27, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's just not true, Drew

Carlos Lee signed with Houston on Nov. 24, 2006, http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leeca01.shtml. Soriano signed with the Cubs on Nov. 20, http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/soriaal01.shtml.

Soriano wasn’t signed because Hendry was “roasted” for not signing Lee!

by elgato on Aug 27, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

alright

I apologize. People have complained about not getting Lee.

Nevertheless, I think my main point stands — people wanted a big, splashy FA signing. That’s what we got.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with your overall point in this case

The Cubs believed they needed — and maybe they did need — a big signing to prove that they meant business after the disaster of 2006. Shortly after the Soriano signing, IIRC, Ramirez re-signed and Lilly and Marquis signed, and the fan base was energized by early 2007.

But I don’t think Soriano had to be the first big signing, though. I’m not sure who would have been better — Lee was probably never an option, because I think he wanted to be in Texas. I’d have to look at a list of 2006 free agents before I could say for sure that Soriano wasn’t the best big-money option.

We all know of Soriano’s limitations. But signing a right-handed hitter (when we already had two righty power bats) and a left fielder (when we already had or would soon sign JJ, Murton, Floyd, Ward, etc.) was a bad move. And it’s on the Cubs that they incorrectly guessed that Soriano could play center.

by elgato on Aug 27, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe the signing that was meant to reference was Carlos Beltran

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 27, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes,

that’s what I meant. Sorry.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't Beltran sign with the Mets ...

after the 2004 season — two years before Soriano was signed by the Cubs?

Sorry — I don’t buy this either.

by elgato on Aug 28, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Precisely...

…why you need a strong baseball guy running the organization.

You don’t build a successful team by responding to fans or media requests, you use good baseball sense in regards to what pieces you need to put together the puzzle. Some of those pieces don’t have to be expensive ones.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 27, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

solutions

the gm has to put the best team out there he can with the finances he has. the players have to give 100 percent. not always possible with a 162 game schedule. and if the fans are not happy all you can do is take away your support. notice there a lot of empty seats lately due to the poor play of this team. no playoffs this year so lets look foward to 2010.even though lou has said he will be back next year you never know. he skipped out on his last 2 contracts.

by NOMAR on Sep 6, 2009 7:10 AM CDT reply actions  

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