Cubs Remember How To Win, Dismantle Nationals 9-4
by Al Yellon on Aug 27, 2009 7:30 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
Email
PrintIf only the last three weeks had been played this way.
Last night, in a 9-4 win over the Nationals, the Cubs got timely hitting, good defense, and -- with the exception of Carlos Marmol, who I'll discuss later on -- outstanding pitching.
My intention here is not to get this recap bogged down in the same way that last night's post about Milton Bradley did, but I do think I need to say a couple of things about the situation. First: I will not tolerate racist remarks of any kind on this site. Bradley has accused some Cubs fans of making similar comments. I have no doubt that such comments are happening, and it is truly unfortunate. That has no place in baseball, or indeed in society in general. I hope it stops. I do think that in this case, Lou has the right idea:Manager Lou Piniella said Cubs fans are "very supportive," and that he would prefer Bradley just ignore the critics. Thus far, Bradley has not heeded that advice.
"During the heat of the battle, it's not the easiest thing to do," Piniella said. "But if you can train yourself to do that, you're going to be way ahead of the game. You're going to enjoy the experience a lot more because some fans can test you a little bit.
"But, you know, if you don't pay attention to them, usually it quiets them down a lot easier than if you give them a reaction."
Wise advice, I would say. As Lou said, not easy to do, but necessary. You can continue the discussion of this topic here, but again, I remind you: no personal attacks, and please keep the tone civil.
Right now, Bradley, who had a tough road trip, has begun this homestand hot: he homered last night for the second straight game, and also drew a bases-loaded walk and scored in the Cubs' six-run eighth that put the game away. He is hitting .288/.409/.466 in August, a lot closer to the production Cubs fans thought they were getting when he was signed. I hope he keeps it up.
Rich Harden had a shaky first inning, loading the bases on a single, HBP and walk before he recorded an out. But only one Nationals run scored, and after that Harden settled down and gave up only four more singles and one other run in completing six solid innings. Angel Guzman and John Grabow each contributed a scoreless inning of relief, and -- shock of shocks -- Aaron Miles did something to actually pitch in to a run-scoring rally, executing a sacrifice bunt that advanced Koyie Hill, who had led off the seventh inning with a single, to second base with the score tied 2-2. Hill eventually scored the lead run on a bloop single by Ryan Theriot, and then the Cubs blew open the game in the eighth with six runs off three Nats relievers. Kudos also to Hill, who was 3-for-3 and really has to be the primary catcher now -- he's outhitting Geovany Soto by quite a bit.
While all this was going on a light rain began to fall, and Carlos Marmol was alternately warming up and standing around in the bullpen. The "standing around" is something we saw a few times earlier this year, when Kevin Gregg, then the closer, was warming up in a close game, ready to close, only to see the Cubs blow it open. Marmol hadn't thrown since Sunday, so Lou apparently decided to give him the work anyway.
It's a good thing the Cubs got those six runs, because Marmol was awful. He walked the bases loaded, gave up one run when Ryan Theriot inexplicably went to third base for a forceout instead of taking what would have been a likely double play (a run would have scored, but then Ronnie Belliard's pinch-strikeout would have ended the game). Willie Harris doubled off the RF wall for another run. Marmol threw only 17 strikes in 33 pitches and, given that, might not be available today. He still, clearly, needs to work on his arm slot.
It also rained -- hard -- for about an hour in the late afternoon, and the forecast of more rain last night plus the blowout loss on Tuesday made the actual turnout among the announced crowd of 36,562 quite a bit smaller than the first game of the series. The CF bleachers were nearly empty and there were only about 20 people in my section near the LF foul line. All told I'd estimate about 20,000-22,000 people showed up to see this victory. It is the smallest announced paid crowd in more than two years -- since 34,382 paid to see a 4-1 loss to the Brewers on April 24, 2007.
Weather permitting (and at this early-morning writing, it is pouring in Chicago), the Cubs will go for the series win this afternoon. Onward.
348 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Hill over Soto
Playing Hill over Soto more is a good idea – not so much because I think it will help the Cubs win this year, but because it should be the kind of thing that will motivate Soto to return to camp in shape next year. If the Cubs make it plausible that Hill could become the primary catcher, that it’s an open battle next year… That said, it’s not all that plausible that Hill could become a primary catcher…
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I agree 100%.
Hill’s not a starter. But right now, he is playing better than Soto, and you’re right — that would be real motivation for Geo to win the job back in 2010.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Cubs need Soto to perform around his 2008 level
Hill obviously isn’t that kind of player. Soto needs to prove that last season wasn’t a fluke.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Agreed again.
Hill, though, is playing well now and should get the bulk of the playing time for the rest of this year. Soto can get in shape over the winter and start fresh next spring.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or he sulks and shows up in even worse shape
Either way, we’d get useful information
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Soto has been a hardcore BABIP victim this season
but his weight led to two injuries this year. Whatever motivates him to get into shape is a very good thing.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Maybe he and Z
Can do their ab work together.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I'd rather both of them move in with Dempster for the winter...
and then have Demp take them on nice long “walks” around the hillsides of Arizona.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I have to admit...
…on a purely emotional level, I’ve become more comfortable with Hill behind the plate than Geo. I’m not sure if that’s because of familiarity (it seems like Hill has played in many more games than Soto) or simply the fact that Koyie has generally been a more consistent hitter. But I think Hill deserves a lot of credit for meeting and exceeding what we, as fans, can and should expect from a backup catcher.
All that said, I do hope Geo will be able to look back on 2009 as just a sophmore slump type of year and come back strong in 2010. And, naturally, it would be nice if he could do the team some relative good the rest of the way out.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
If all of our guns were hitting like they were supposed to
all of us would be extremely happy with Hill. Good receiver, hits a little, good guy. Just too bad our lack of hitting is magnified so much.
I’ve also been happy with Fuk and his progress. Maybe next year we’ll see a complete player and one that was promised. He is the least of our worries right now.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Maybe it's me but...
…I find it absolutely mind-boggling that a professional athlete (and somebody who was openly talking last year about how he wanted to be the future team captain) has to be “motivated” for something that should be as basic as staying in shape.
For all of the abuse that Bradley takes from fans, I’d rather have a guy like him that I believe is at least trying than an out of shape, unmotivated guy like our former starting catcher.
I’m not a “booer” by nature but, if I was, Geo would be my main focus right now.
by bluekoolaide on Aug 27, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
There some real positives to this season:
Lee, Wells, Fukudome, and Hill. Although I doubt Hill would match a healthy and in-shape Soto (hitting wise), he’s made the most of his opportunity and saved us the possibilty tat Fox might start at catcher.
I think Lou hit it on the head with Bradley. And Bradley has been a positive on the field for this team, too in the 2nd half. He has something to positive to build on for next season.
Maybe the Cubs will get hot and make a run for the playoffs now. I hope so.
More positives:
I think you can add Guzman, Theriot and Harden to the list.
I haz comedy show on Fridays. Come out and support a fellow Cubs fan? If you do, I'll see what I can do about Aaron Miles: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 27, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd add Ramirez
Even though the guy’s been hurt, he’s played well. I’d also add Jake Fox.
I agree and I also forgot about Lily.
It’s been a frustrating and somewhat unlucky year for the offense. Prior to the season I could envision this offense struggling if Lee & Fukudome performed as they did during their poor sections (most of) last season, and if Bradley spent much more time on the DL than expected. Injuries and big drop offs happen sometimes, even to players with strong track-records.
There’s still some time but the pressure now is enormous, just try and win one game at a time.
Never forget Lilly
Never. Forget.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Hill's helped us win a lot of games behind the plate in the past few years.
The positive developments for 2010:
Wells, Fox, Guzman, and perhaps no more Kevin Gregg or Aaron Miles (hopefully).
The negative developments for 2010:
One more year for Soriano, and perhaps for Lou too. Hill outplaying Soto, and likely another season without a real everyday CFer and SS.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
No Hill has not helped.
He’s a dime a dozen backstop. No matter how good his defense is, his offense is beyond pathetic. His defense cannot be good enough to overcome his incompetence at the plate.
I’m going to say this a bunch of times Sackman.
HILL IS NOT A STARTING CATCHER!
HILL IS NOT A STARTING CATCHER!
HILL IS NOT A STARTING CATCHER!
HILL IS NOT A STARTING CATCHER!
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Certainly if you completely ignore reality
you can say Hill hasn’t helped us win a few games. Otherwise, whether or not he should be the starting catcher, he has contributed to wins this season
Seems to be a common theme from this poster
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I see.
Geo has been worth 1.0 win this season and he’s sucked. Hill has been great and he’s worth somewhere between 0.3-.08 (with defense factored in)? They need soto.
Personal attack Al! Personal attack! Why aren’t you coming to my defense?
I have stated that that my previous statements were in jest and in the interest of satire and he’s attacking me.
Seriously, I’m just asking for consistency.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
You're going to have to stick up for yourself.
Al can’t police every single comment and it’s not like blackhawk called you anything obscene.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Twas a joke.... sort of.
He stops personal attacks inconsistently in my view.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk
What’s this 1.0 win thing?
Geo has been lost this year. The best thing that happened to the Cubs for a stretch there was he was on the DL and Hill did very well filling in. Doing better than if Geo was in there.
Don’t know what happened to Geo: Weight gain? WBC hangover? The pot incident? Don’t know. But what I do know is he’s not nearly the guy he was last year and the Cubs were lucky to have a good a backup as Koyie Hill.
Just win the next game...!
Guess you missed my negative developments for 2010
“Hill outplaying Soto”
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
No one said he was a starting catcher.
But a backup catcher who fulfills that role as well as Hill has does help his team win games.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Current OPS for Cubs catchers.
Hill .658
Soto .705
Given Hill’s better defense, I think he’s got to get the bulk of the playing time for the rest of this year, and that, as has been said above, might motivate Soto to get into better shape for 2010.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Furthermore
Batters are hitting .254 with an OPS of .774 versus Cubs’ pitching with Soto catching. They’re hitting .236 with a .705 OPS with Hill behind the plate. The Cubs are 32-20 when Hill starts behind the plate, too, so he’s been a positive for the team this season.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 27, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Over such a small sample size
OPS against by catcher is not going to stabilize in one season. If you had 5 years of data with the same pitching staff with both catchers splitting time I would take that seriously. While Soto has sucked this year. The only way the Cubs get into this (highly unlikely) is if Soto hits like gangbusters. At worst starting Soto just helps him get ready for next season.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
At this point, catching 52 games isn't a small sample size, compared with Soto's 70+ games.
The stats bear out that Hill calls a better game than Soto and is better defensively.
That’s what you’d like out of your backup catcher.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Aug 27, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
he's added 0.3 wins this year....
That’s not vastly helping the team win. Just cause he happens to play catcher doesn’t mean he’s a reason why they win. Lets add +5 defensive RAR (for his playing time that would be crazy) still not even a win added this season.
Out playing an injured and Fat Soto isn’t hard, but there is no reason not to play Geo at this point.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah and Geo was worth almost 5 wins last season Dave
That’s a huge drop off my friend.
He’s helping, but not in comparison to even an average catcher.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
But even just the fact that Hill is helping in any regard is a positive to me. Any team that essentially loses its starting catcher – which, for a variety of reasons, is what’s happened to Geo this season – is going to suffer. Koyie Hill has helped contain that damage, to however small a degree.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
last season
is over, my friend. THIS year is what matters, and THIS YEAR, Hill has been better than Soto in many ways.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
can I quote you on that...
…next time you bring up Soriano’s career numbers? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Soto and Hill
Soto 1.0 WAR
Hill 0.3 WAR
Now catcher defense isn’t factored in.
Worst case scenario it’s a wash.
If Geo’s defense is even remotely positive (quite possible) he’s been better than Hill.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Right
But it’s not because he’s worse than Geo
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Whoops
I meant
*but that’s not because he’s(Soto) worse than Hill
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou the Sabermagician Manager
While everyone is crowding around to blame Jim Hendry for Milton Bradley, not enough attention has been given to Lou’s handling of MB. The fiery attitude is something that Lou said the Cubs needed. Yet somehow, Lou has been unprepared with how to channel and focus that fire. MB implies the Cubs are demoralized, which suggests a clubhouse without emotional leadership.
More and more, Lou looks like the stereotyped Sabermagician shoe fits – he looks like a manager who is playing video game baseball, unwilling and/or unable to shepherd the real people that are involved in baseball. After all, you can start your backup catcher for a month straight in video game baseball. You can take a part-time 2B and try and make him play 3B against LHP in video game baseball. You can snicker at Big Z’s outburts but yell at MB for his. You can throw out Yoda-lite aphorisms in press conferences and think that will take care of it…
That said, here’s where Jim Hendry made mistakes with Milton Bradley – it’s not so much signing him that was the mistake – Bradley will be a productive player in a vacuum. The first problem is that Jim made Bradley step into the very popular DeRosa’s shoes with his excuse for why he had to trade DeRosa (an excuse that wasn’t valid since DeRosa’s money went to the Aarons). This put an unecessary burden on Bradley and played to the racist element that is unfortunately a real but limited part of the Wrigley atmosphere. The second problem is the 75-game clause which encouraged Bradley to play hurt in a way he hadn’t before.
One more unexpected problem with Bradley, though, is that he was moved into the spotlight in an unexpected way. Pre-season, we expected his bat to be one of several top bats on the team. But Soriano, Soto, and Ramirez each stopped being productive for different reasons in long sections of the season. This put a burden on Bradley to hold more of the offense up himself. This excaberated the situation.
I’m not saying Bradley couldn’t handle the situation better himself. Nor am I saying his frustration isn’t understandable. I’m responding to the idea that management should have seen this coming.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 27, 2009 7:48 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Well said...particularly this graph
One more unexpected problem with Bradley, though, is that he was moved into the spotlight in an unexpected way. Pre-season, we expected his bat to be one of several top bats on the team. But Soriano, Soto, and Ramirez each stopped being productive for different reasons in long sections of the season. This put a burden on Bradley to hold more of the offense up himself. This excaberated the situation.
That's an interesting point about...
…Milton essentially replacing DeRo and the potential racial implications thereof. And I agree that Bradley has stepped into a near perfect storm here in Chicago – fan expectations have never been higher, the Cubs have had a very difficult year and so has he.
Now with the team apparently on its way to falling drastically short of expectations and the media having drawn blood with this “hatred” comment, the sharks are circling.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
One quibble
Hindsight is 20/20, but:
The second problem is the 75-game clause which encouraged Bradley to play hurt in a way he hadn’t before.
Since MB has reached that 75 game mark, I can’t think of a single game where he’s been scratched due to aches and pains, and that mark was surpassed over a month ago. Even if he had sat (or been DL’ed) each and every game in which he was less than 100%, he would still be at or very near 75 games.
I wouldn’t ever say that MB is an iron man, but he’s been as healthy as needed for his contract to vest for a third year; healthy enough to play in around half the games in a season, which is all that clause was meant to ensure. I believe he’s played healthy often enough to banish any thought that he wouldn’t have reached appearances in 75 games even if he had sat on all those days when people speculated he was too hurt to play, but did anyway.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Whatever the problems with Bradley
his injury history hasn’t really been one of them.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Why the slow start?
Was it just bad luck? Or was Bradley playing in a physical state he was previously unwilling to play in? I think there’s a very good chance it’s the latter.
In the second half, he’s seemed healthy and he’s been productive. I’m talking abiut the first half.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
That logic doesn't hold
Because if you’re saying he dragged himself out there to meet the incentive, wouldn’t we be seeing a lot more “ouchie days” now that he’s hit it?
Sometimes a slow start is just a slow start.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
This isn't a logical fact-only-we-can-be-sure case.
I’m painting a picture that seems a reasonable explanation of what happened.
As for your contention that Bradley would be taking more days off – possibly, but only if he was injured. He may be health. Or another explanation is that he’s fired up now to prove himself.
Or I’m wrong about the 75-game clause.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I don't think you're wrong
I think that may have contributed to the that stretch early on where his hamstring was injured and everyone was arguing whether he should go to the DL or not. It was right around the time of his suspension, too, I believe.
Maybe if that clause hadn’t been looming they could have been more conservative and given him time to heal so he wasn’t playing lame and pressing.
And the funny thing is that
if Bradley keeps his current pace for a few more weeks, his season numbers are going to be close to his career averages. For a 31 year old, that’s about what should be expected. Anyone expecting 3 years of numbers like 2008 really doesn’t know baseball.
A final point, has anyone seen Ibanez’s and Abreu’s numbers in August. Ibanez is .213 / .280 / .333 and Abreu is .242 / .340 /.385. Those guys got off to hot starts which makes their signing look better. Bradley could very well end up with numbers not very different than these guys at the end of the year.
by rlpete on Aug 27, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point.
Further- I will be very surprised if Ibanez ends up being more productive over the life of his contract than Bradley given their ages.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Explanation
I think Bradley played a little more in the first half of the season than he would have. Now, he could have played more because he wanted to win the fans or he could have played more because of the 75-game clause. People can argue that Bradley should learn to play hurt and that’s fine.
But I think if Jim wanted to commit to Bradley, he should have just committed to Bradley and signed him for three years.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Some applauded Hendry's foresight for insisting on the 75-game clause
This could have turned into an instructive lesson in “careful what you wish for”, but MB’s health over the last couple of months should be enough to convince people that he was gonna get there no matter what.
Did his numbers and reputation suffer earlier in the year because he played hurt too much? Maybe. Has he played himself out of that bad start and into something more in line with his career numbers? Definitely. Has he played himself out of that bad start and redeemed his reputation? Hmm…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Is this John Wayne, is this me?
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions
-20 for mangling it
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The true quote is “Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?”
But it always sounds like Is this John Wayne, is this me when I listen to it.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Ah, OK. Missed the reference.
And I saw that movie a bunch of times, though not recently.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Aside from everything that has happened on the field or in the dugout this year in Cubs baseball.
One of the things that MUST come to an end in this city is our wretched sports journalism. The Tribune and Sun-Times have now reached Tabloid level when it comes to sports coverage. We’ve seen it with the Cubs all season long, and we’ve seen the absurd manner in which they’re treated Jay Cutler. If Cutler was “dating” the Chicago Bears, he would’ve dumped them months ago, because of this psycho girlfriend treatment.
It wasn’t too long ago, when the journalists in this town had a little more respect for the athletes they covered, and weren’t racing against each other for tabloid worthy headlines. It kept the fans in the dark about a lot of the little behind the scenes things that went on… which should stay behind the scenes as respect to part of the game.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Aug 27, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
There are better places than a major daily for the little crap that probably doesn't matter anyway
Like, say, a sports blog that focuses on a single team.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Couldn't agree more!!!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Agreed.....although
…I think the Haugh, Miles and vanDyke are pretty darn good.
The good ones are in the minority for sure. Ohhh for days of Ray Sons, Jerome Holtzman and Don Pierson
Not that big of a David Haugh fan.
I find that he just flip-flops.
And, for the most part… the journalists in this town either race each other for the tabloid headline, or crank out an uninspired, popular opinion commentary on the new flavor of the week national headline. I find it pretty sad, that such a big sports town, has so little quality journalism. Especially when it boasted one of the largest newspapers in the country, who happened to own a MLB team.
It’s actually quite embarrassing. Especially when I long for the days of Sam Smith, of all people. Smith used to come up with a new Bulls trade every week. I wasn’t even much of a Bulls fan, but it was nice to read a true unique opinion. Someone who critiqued the team he covered, and made his own out-of-the-box suggestions.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Haugh is ok on the Bears, but he shouldn't really talk about the Cubs.
to switch things up the best reporter in all of Chicago is the work Laurence Holmes does for the Bears. He’s fair, he doesn’t let personal feelings get in the way of his reporting.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
The due dilligence...
…on Bradley was inferior, and that is the crux of the issue. Even if his attitude had been stellar, his career numbers along would tell you he didn’t fit the “left handed run producer” they were looking for. The guy is a better RH hitter and has been his whole career.
This was another case of fitting a square peg in a round hole, and that is on the GM.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 27, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This view is too simplistic.
The point of getting LH, wasn’t to hit RHP better; it was to protect the outside corner which has plagued DLee in particular. You can see this looking back at Lou’s complaints.
The Cubs were fairly even last year in how they hit LHP and RHP and the Cubs were losing DeRo who had big splits, so adding LH bats who split better against LHP was a conscious strategy – one they followed with both Miles and Bradley.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Al please tell me you don't believe this.
I was just regaining a bunch of respect for you on this issue. Milton Bradley was the right choice given his career numbers and his defense in the outfield.
Hendry never claimed he was a LH run producer, Hendry got MB to be MB. Stop trying to project this “RBI man” or “LH run producer” on to Bradley and be pleased with his near .400 OBP. It is rare to find a player that can do that.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
We got a really good baseball player who gets on-base like crazy. Who complains about that?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
At the Twins games this year in June
After Bradley threw the ball in the stands with 2 outs I heard plenty of taunts towards Bradley for the rest of that game and Saturday’s game. It was bad in centerfield and I doubt Bradley could hear the N-bombs and other f-bomb laced taunts. Many Twins fans were yelling at him too. But many were the meathead variety Cubs fans lobbing the insults. I’m sure the case was the same in right field.
People were complaining about that on WGN this morning
That was some of the reasoning for hating Bradley. Because he threw a ball in the stands; a play that made absolutely no difference to the game. Then later in the same rant the guy complained that Bradley wasn’t throwing balls into the stands for players. Sheesh.
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 27, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
There's a certain type of fan...
…who will hold onto an episode like that and use it against the player forever after.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Whether we like it or not
when a guy is a lightning rod, things like this get magnified many times over.
I’m not saying its right to do what the fans [described above] do or condoning such behaviour what so ever.
I mentioned this previously, comparing certain Cub players. Let’s say D-Lee did that after a pop-up. You think he’d get the same treatment? No. Why? Because D-Lee has always been a stand-up guy, non-controntational and always a good all-around guy. All these attributes go way beyond him being an excellent ball player and specifically an exceptional fielder.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
We do have a precedent of our big free agent signings crapping the bed their first year.
I think we could all do a search on this site alone and see us belittling Kosuke, Soriano, and D-Lee in their first year as Cubs. They all received similar taunts. All we can hope that just like these players that the next year they play with a chip on their shoulders and shut us up. I haven’t really liked the Milton Bradley experience thus far, but not enough to go to the extremes hes saying fans are going.
"You just don't know understand how frustrating this is"- Kevin Borseth
Moises Alou is another for the list
The difference is that Alou and the other guys you mentioned all handled the situation better than Bradley has. I’m not saying he’s totally to blame, but I don’t think he’s back next year. I see a strong finish as helpful in the Cubs’ ability to get something for him in a trade.
At best they get AA relievers for Bradley.
That is not good enough. You don’t trade Bradley.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Next year will be the year of HOPE...
…for the Cubs, because I’ll guarantee there simply isn’t much flexibility to sign FA’s, or trade guys because of the payroll committment and contract restrictions.
You have to HOPE:
-Soto gets off his ass
-Zambrano is not entering a DL phase of his career
-Lee has another good year left
-Ramirez can stay healthy
-Bradley can stay healthy and produce (big doubts on the health part)
-Wells can duplicate his rookie year
-Soriano can bounce back (and stay healthy)
The only players on this team I don’t worry about are; Lilly, Dempster, Theriot and Fukudome. They have all proven to be durable and I believe what have seen from them in 09, is about what you will get in 2010.
Beyond that, you have to hope the stars are aligned just right in 2010.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
How could I forget...
…Marmol.
Another big question mark, and a key reason the team won in 07 and 08.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
If what we've seen from Dempster in 2009 is what we're going to get in 2010
then I have major concerns. He’s a 5th starter right now at best. Getting paid ace money
No he's not Illicat.
I’m biting my tongue right here. He’s earned his pay right now. He’s not as good as last year, but he’s again not the reason for this season going down the crapper.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
you're going to have to point out where I said he's the reason for the season going down the crapper
Because I just looked again, and I don’t see it.
However, AT THE MOMENT he is mediocre.
I’m looking for a better performance from Demp next year, and if he repeats his performance from this season, it will be disappointing IMO
I still think Demp is a solid middle-of-the-rotation starter.
His contract merely reflects the market value for when he was signed. When I look at how the starting staffs of the Brewers, Astros and Reds (among a few examples) have crashed and burned this season, I’d still rather have Demp.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I don't think...
…you will see another year like 08 from Dempster. He is probably somewhere between 08 and 09 (probably closer to 09), because I believe he will always have periods struggling with his command.
He probably is overpaid, but at least the guy works hard and takes the ball every fifth day.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Harden
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
The funny thing is
He’s been the only one to do it this season.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
And Z
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
true dat.
I really hope Z gets a good conditioning routine in the off-season.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
He said he was lazy about his Abs and
he’s still putting up some of the best numbers of his career. If DLee admitted this or Theriot, it would be a cute little story. Right now, Z is getting lambasted by the media.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Uhh
Al, you’re wrong about Theriot’s decision to get a force-out at 3B in the 9th. No way is that ball a double-play ball and quite frankly, it would have taken much more arm than Theriot has to even get a force-out at 2B. His defense is much-maligned, and rightfully so, but he made the correct play to get an out at 3B in the 9th, that much is for sure.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
The hitter was Wil Nieves, a slow-running catcher.
He could have turned a DP, I believe.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No chance
Rewind the tape on that one. In my opinion, he wouldn’t have even been able to get the out at 2B, let alone have it turned for a DP. In that situation, all you have to do is get an out…which he did…in the proper manner of going to 3B for a force-out on a ball in the hole. He recognized the limitations of his arm and made the fundamentally sound play. That play doesn’t happen a lot but it was the correct play.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I have to disagree as well
Theriot was running toward 3rd. I’m not sure he could have stopped, turned and made an accurate throw. With the big lead, the surer out is the right decision.
I really don't think a DP is possible.
Force at 2nd? Maybe.
That play had the potential to knock the wheels off. The Nats player — forget who it was — had a horrid slide. His front leg was two feet off the ground when it crossed the bag.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Agree
Al, there was no chance for a DP on the grounder to Theriot. The were lucky to get the force call since ARam was out of position on the play.
Looked the other way to me.
In any case, the result was pretty much the same, although there would have been one less run scored.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have very little love for Theriot's baseball smarts or defensive abilities
But I think krummy’s got this one right. It was a slow-developing play that drew Riot to the right. The play at home wasn’t an option, and if he had reversed his momentum, the only play would have been at 1B.
I think he did the right thing there – a twin-killing was almost completely out of the question for someone with Riot’s abilities.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
The Phantom double play
turn is one thing when the player is at risk of injury. You typically don’t get that same call on a straight force out.
Yeah, I gotta side with krummy on this one, too.
Theriot was way, way to his right. I don’t think he would’ve been able to turn and throw against his momentum enough to get the ball to second base accurately and on time, much less turn the double play. I was a little disappointed Aramis wasn’t back to third base for the force out. I think the Cubs may have gotten a break on the tag call.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I thought so at first
then replays showed that the Nats runner’s front leg was basically touching Saturn.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Ah, OK.
Now that you mention it, Bob Brenly was ripping the Nats for their poor sliding technique.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
MLB Call
You’re very rarely going to get a safe call on that play at the major league level. Ball beats runner, runner is out. That’s pretty much the mantra in MLB. It’s the same way as the neighborhood play is called at 2B with regularity and why tag plays on SB’s are routinely “missed” when you see them in slow motion.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I've read that linked story a few times
And reading between Sullivan’s lines, he clearly doesn’t think Bradley is telling the truth.
I’m not going that far, but Bradley doesn’t help himself by not giving examples and not summoning security.
Do I think it’s possible fans have made racist comments? Yes, I do. But I refuse to believe it is the majority, or even a decent-sized minority.
Obviously, when you’re on the receiving end of an insult, particularly a racial one, that is small comfort. The few outshout the many in that case.
More and more, I believe that Bradley needs to be angry to succeed. He needs to feel like he’s rising above horrid injustices.
He raises his game out of anger. Last night, I made the comparison to McEnroe. Alonzo Mourning — before his illness — was like that to a certain extent.
I don’t say that is bad or good. Different players have different motivations. If Bradley needs to be the martyr in his own little drama to succeed, I’ll buy tickets and get the commemorative DVD if it means a championship.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I don’t say that is bad or good. Different players have different motivations. If Bradley needs to be the martyr in his own little drama to succeed, I’ll buy tickets and get the commemorative DVD if it means a championship.
Let me put it this way you just said it was bad with this sentence. So no Worf you think it’s bad.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Coming from the guy who accused Bradley of padding his stats to get a better contract...
Credibility … you do not haz it.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
lol Worf
I’ve dropped so many hints it’s not even funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hKSYgOGtos
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
You may be right.
I can’t help noticing that each time Milton ratchets up the drama in the press, he also knocks the ball around the ballpark. Hey, whatver it takes. I choose to try and stay focused on results and not get too caught up in the static of players’ off-field behavior.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I've been trying to think of more examples
Bobby Knight comes to mind. Ty Cobb.
Some guys just can’t play with a smile on their face. Leave them alone and let them be angry, I guess.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You gotta wonder
What would happen if MB had ever played for Bobby Knight…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Nothing
Bradley plays hard with regularity. Bob Knight wouldn’t have had any problems with him.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
This is why Lou seems to not mind Bradley
You can never say Milton doesn’t try hard.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Once
Other than that he’s defended Bradley and continued to use him. This is exactly what someone earlier in the thread was talking about. Latching on to one previous issue and exacerbating it to the biggest issue ever.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
and to the 2 parties involved...
…it was over 2 months ago
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 27, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
over = forgotten about
They’ve moved on, why can’t Cubs fans?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
I’ve moved on.
Key word Illicat. WAS. WAS a significant issue.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
he called him
a piece of sh!t, and then publicly apologized.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Tony Phillips
Remember the utility infielder with the Angels, Tigers, A’s, etc? The longer he played, the bigger the chip on his shoulder.
Some people are motivated by fear or anger
or love or intrinsically…you get the point. Milton I would guess is motivated by anger. Everybody is different on what motivates them. I just hope he is motivated.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Motivated by anger?? WTF?
You’re really doing no better than I just was. I was just saying what everyone else was in a round about way.
If you ban me for saying this Al that would be really awful.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Enjoy
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
He should hire a Personal Assistant
To tell him bad news just before every game.
“Hey, boss – you’re stock portfolio is down 5%. Have a good game!”
“Just checked your car and your driver’s side front tire is flat. And the spare’s flat, too.”
“I just ate the last Hostess Fruit Pie. Is that ok?”
He’ll be batting .400 by the end of the season.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
If you ever read...
…about Dick Butkus, he used to visualize players on the other team attacking and hurting his family before the game to get the edge he was looking for.
That may work in football, but baseball requires a more refined type of motivation where you can stay in control of your emotions.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Absolutely agreed
Ray Rhodes also comes to mind (“When the other team comes in and beats you at home, it’s like being burglarized and watching your wife get raped”).
Maybe it’s partially why the NFL is more popular. Fans can better relate to channeling aggression and going to war against the opposition in football than in baseball.
that's a reason
why Lilly bowling over Molina is so popular.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
And why isn't Lilly constantly berated as a hothead?
He’s done more “angry” things as a Cub than Bradley. He doesn’t talk a lot and (many will disagree with this statement and get angry at me) he’s also has a distinctly lesser amount of skin pigment than some other players.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
You really think MB is doing this because he's a bad person.
As if this is some fantasy of his. Do any of you have sympathy for a guy who is clearly hurting? Maybe I’m the only one.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Not necessarily a bad person
That was phrased oddly. Worf suggests that he’s some mercurial, moody, motivated solely by anger jerk wad. He didn’t say it, he implied it.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
well, Milton's history shows that might be the case.
the guy has had problems at every stop in his career.
I guess one out of four isn't bad
I didn’t call him mercurial or moody or a jerkwad.
I did say I think he’s motivated by anger. Specifically, I think he needs to feel like he’s fighting injustices to succeed.
I also said that if that is what trips his trigger, fair enough. If he needs to be the tragic figure in his own Greek myth, I’ll buy tickets to the show.
Just so long as it ends in a championship.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I don't think Worf was suggesting Milton is a "jerk wad."
I think he was suggesting that Bradley may use anger and perceived persecution as a means to motivate himself on the playing field.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
He didn't say this, but he suggested.
To suggest that he is a tin foil hat wearer that needs to feel like he’s fighting injustices (read from Worf as Windmills) who is an angry and unstable person. That is the perception your giving off.
A fair way to state this would be that Bradley is not a perfect human being who has had issues with the media/fans in the past, but has been a very productive player during his career. This season, for whatever reason, he’s sucked. I would prefer if the Cubs got a player that didn’t have this type of flaw, but as long as he helps the team win it doesn’t matter.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
We're actually on the same page here.
I’m a Milton Bradley defender myself. But there needs to be some middle ground here – Milton does react emotionally to fans and he makes statements to the press that get pirhanas like Paul Sullivan worked up.
I agree – his production on the field is what matters. (And he really hasn’t “sucked” this season. He’s on his way to meeting his career averages. Let’s see what happens.) But I don’t think it’s unreasonable or insulting to suggest that maybe Milton Bradley is driven by a certain amount of inner turmoil or rage. Many great artists are.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Bradley and racism
I believe that the racist taunting occurred even though I haven’t personally witnessed it. To think that Bradley should have to put up with it because this is a minority of Cub fans, because he is paid alot to play MLB, or for any other reason is nonsense. It is his decision whether he puts up with the indignity or not. Thinking he should have to is an apathetic stand toward there really being social justice. The fact that he might play better when he feels angry or fiesty is irrelevant.
The Cubs should make a statement in support of Bradley. Bradley should call security when he is subjected this type of taunting.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 27, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Spot fucking on
Sorry for the language, but this is straight up correct.
His stand against feeling personally violated (whether you think eh should or not is irrelevant because it’s his emotions not yours) and against causal racism is important. To suggest he should be apathetic and the way Sully, Kaplan, Whittenmeyer, etc. is pathetic.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Milton Bradley... let me introduce you to Jaqcue Jones.
Win games and play well… and we cheer. Lose games and play poorly, and we boo.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Not to mention standing there posing after being thrown a strike.
That was just obnoxious on his part. Knock it off with the cocky attitude already. He makes it hard for us to like him even when he is playing better.
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
He also celebrates when he makes a great catch
And, he’ll throw the ball back in while still sitting on the ground, in a show-off kinda way. But, the funny thing is… a better outfielder probably wouldn’t have to dive/tumble to the ground to make that same catch.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
No Cubs fan who cheered for Sosa's bunny hop
Should ever complain again about any pose or gesture of celebration.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Not the same
To boo a player for poor play is one thing, but to use the N-word or F-word is quite different. I have been critical of Milt also, but I have never used the N-word. I don’t care who you are, no one deserves to be treated this way.
Don't let anyone steal your Joy
I'm in absolutely no way advocating that. Never.
But, the reality is: fans cheer when you play well, and boo when you play poorly. The basic concept is no different here than anywhere else. We just happen to have more fans at the ballpark than most places… and some of those fans are jerks. There’ are jerks in every other city too… it’s no different than anywhere else.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Problem is, it seems like many Cubs fans...
…aren’t noticing that Milton has been playing quite well for the last couple of months.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Exactly
His 2009 season has already been a total bust, according to some.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
He's actually been about average with his defense factored in.
He is NOT the reason why this team blows.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Forecast =rain
Doesn’t look good. 60% or higher from 2:00 through midnight. We got soaked in Iowa, sorry we sent it right at you. Hard to get any momentum (1 win) if we keep getting stopped.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
It's god crying... because the Cubs failed again.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Diviion... postseason... and World Series. Not gonna happen.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Just win games
Goodness, what a surprise Milton Bradley topic of conversation, I can’t believe it. How many times must this nonsense come up. With his track record he should take the Dick Allen approach and just don’t talk to reporters.
Unfairly he has been booed this year, he has played hard and hustled. His numbers are average. He was given high expectations, not just ones, and that to was not fair.
Hill should start 4 games a week.
Go Cubs.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Yup
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Didn't we see that last night?
Says the guy who hasn’t been to bed yet…
Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.
The smaller version
I don’t feel as bad crapping up non-Game Threads.
(got 3 hours of sleep, but the ribs are in the slow-cooker and should be ready by dinner time)
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I thought so.
Man, three hours would be nice. I just dropped off the SO at the airport and got back.
Damn bridge is closed tomorrow.
Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.
Okey-dokey
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
who said that?
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Aug 27, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Verrry Good this "Winning Thing" - I just hope it is habit forming
And while I am at it, writing this comment less than 20 miles from the old KZ site in Dachau, believe me, racism in any form SUCKS! We are baseball fans, who by definition support their teams and players, and not bunch of stupid neo-fascists or the like.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Correction
… We are or should be baseball fans …
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Yes
I grew up on the north side of Chicago with European parents. We moved to Germany when I was 16 in just over 3 decades ago.
Funny how Cubbieitis never seems to heal…
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Days at Wrigley Field are among my fondest memories of my childhood
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
I didn't realize it was...
…raining last night; is this why their were so-o many seats empty last night, or is it the rats abandoning the ship?
Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.
It was mostly the rain...
… and partly the blowout from Tuesday.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Let's see what attendance looks like tonight, then.
If, of course, the game actually gets played.
This’ll be, what, the sixth rainout of the year?
Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.
I believe it's actually supposed to be a day game today.
But the weather looks pretty hopeless right now.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Tonight, today...
…it’s all kind of the same right now.
Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.
It does look very wet.
http://www.earthcam.com/usa/illinois/chicago/wrigleyfield/
And Wunderground is also not very optimistic.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
CF bleachers were half empty
in the 3rd inning Tuesday night. I’ll go out on the limb and say we’ll see somewhat of a repeat of late, 2006.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Tuesday night's game was the first time I heard true 'deadness' in the crowd
I literally saw girlfriends consoling their boyfriends at times – or trying to cheer them up (after we were getting killed) and the boyfriend just sort of replying with a wave of the hand in a “please, I’m OK – I just don’t wanna discuss it” kind of way. It was creepy.
Nice to see us come back last night and kick some ass. Now let’s get that damn Wild Card and take it from there.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
I was at the game last night...
and it was strangely quite and somewhat lifeless. I don’t think I heard a “Let’s Go Cubbies” chant until like the 6th inning. Outside the MB homer in the 3rd, it was really quite and weird more of the game.
p.s. good to meet you last night Al
I haz comedy show on Fridays. Come out and support a fellow Cubs fan? If you do, I'll see what I can do about Aaron Miles: Hot Beans Delivers
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 27, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Quiet makes sense
I was at a game in early July and the crowd was on its feet seemingly every time the Cubs got a runner on base, which I felt was overkill. With just a few dozen games left and the Cubs well out of the running, it makes sense for fans to calm down. When the Cubs are in the hunt, it makes sense to have a noisy crowd. If the crowd is noisy now, it’s just out of habit.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Nice to meet you too.
That’s about the smallest August crowd I can remember in many years. Even in 2006, the in-house crowd (as opposed to the turnstile count) didn’t start declining till September.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have a number of games left, which I'm not overly excited about.
I’d like to take people who have never been to a game, but they won’t get the whole experience of when things are most fun.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
the crowds in september '06 reminded me of games pre-1984
i was at one game in late ‘06 when the bottom level concession stands weren’t even open
by doofus cubs guy on Aug 27, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I was at a couple of those games.
Once you got past the underlying sadness of what a disaster that team was, those games were actually kinda laid-back fun.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
bad economy + mediocre (or worse) baseball
I was talking to a friend last night about this. We both have tickets for at least two games before the end of the year. We bought them before the season began.
But we’re not sure we’ll even go. Sure, we already paid for the tickets — but paying for beer, food, soda, etc. doesn’t make a lot of sense at this point. And we’re two well-paid professionals.
I can imagine there are people in worse spots who have even less money to throw at Wrigley concessions.
I have tickets I don't want to use
Simply because it’s just not fun anymore right now. We stink. Paying for beer and food isn’t even a thought into the equation. It’s just not fun. I haven’t even watched a game the last week and a half. Seen like two innings of baseball. It’s too depressing.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
I still get a kick out of going to Wrigley
… even when the team is bad (assuming the weather isn’t also bad). But I’m right there with you as far as watching on TV.
I simply cannot imagine a scenario where I am at a baseball game (or any paying, public event, for that matter)...
…and I hear people making inappropriate comments or slurs of any kind and I do not promptly get up and (1) leave or (2) find security/management/personnel to dispose of that person immediately. I’m not trying to take the moral high ground here, I just have no tolerance for this thing and am somewhat baffled that people let it slide by in a professional sport setting. I can’t stand it when people text during movies…there’s no way in hell I’d be sitting still if this crap happened during one of the only times in a year I get to go to Wrigley.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Not to defend those who stand by idly
but the people who make such remarks are usually drunk and surly to begin with. Not someone you’d want too confront. I’d call security, personally, but I’m a youngest child and therefore programmed to tattle.
Don't defend them.
And good that you call security. When I’m drunk I never have made comments that are as atrocious as the ones that have been reported. Then again I don’t get shitfaced hardly ever.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Everybody look at this graphic, and remember that you're happy to be a Cub and not a Royal.
I’d argue that this Royals season has been more disappointing than any other MLB team’s; yes, even the Mets.
On a similar note, can a few sabermagicians help me find out the average WAR for a starting position player, and that of a pitcher? Thanks.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I just got a kick
Out of the phrase “WAR pie”. I’m not even sure why…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I watched the MASN feed last night
My wife kindly looked for the Cubs game for me and saw it was on EI, so I left it on instead of switching to Len & Bob.
Let me say, as I did last night, that Rob Dibble has absolutely no place being in a broadcast booth. Whether it’s MASN or Be Bop A Lula Tech, he is wholly unprofessional and a disgrace to the people who respect the profession.
Dibble comported himself in the same way a drunken a-hole along the right field line would. Mocking Milton Bradley all game long, topped off by saying “Psst, Milton, they’re talking about you at the next table” during Bradley’s last at-bat. Not to mention the non-stop Bill Murray type “miss it, miss it” cheerleading.
Say what you will about Hawk Harrelson and lap dogs like Rex Hudler and the Sterling-Waldman team in New York, but not even they would bait an MLB player the way Dibble did last night. It confirmed the reason why I stopped listening to MLB Home Plate on XM Radio (and consequently why I cancelled my subscription and got an iPod instead).
He's doing color for the Nats.
Give me any other good reason why anyone would watch a Nats game?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Actually
the Nats are fun to watch. They hit a lot and give up a lot. Their defense also makes things “interesting”. Just don’t expect many wins. Definitely a more entertaining team this year than last year when they were boring to watch.
Dibble did an interview on the SCORE yesterday with Boers and Bernstein.
Basically was saying… in not exact words… they hired him to be a clown for a last place team. They need viewers.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Entertainment trumps sportsmanship...again
I find myself becoming less interested in watching and listening to pro sports when it’s more important for the announcers to be pom-pom wavers and Catskill comics.
Broadcasters should know better than to taunt Bradley
He may just come up for a visit.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Al we are allowed to insult people on this blog?
I didn’t realize this. Mabye I should start.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope
But this is most certainly a shot a Bradley. He’s a person is he not? Unless Frumpy Hobbit Paul Sullivan has taken that away from him as well.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I seem to be getting that a lot lately
Maybe I should tone down the subtlety.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Or maybe we should bring back the sarcasm indicator.
I’ve gotten pretty lax about using it myself.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I guess I see the satirical value of the statement
Oh my. I’m really stupid in this. I thought this was an original comment. This was a response to the dibble comment. Oh I’m sorry bout that clutch.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
That was a really good point, my bad
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
No worries Buzz
I simply cannot rationally condone the abject lack of class on Dibble’s part. And if what I posted constitutes an insult, I’m guilty as charged.
No worries
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I'm just going to put this in my sig
and let you figure out what it means.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hKSYgOGtos
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
let you all
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
All right, since this is the Internet, where subtlety and sarcasm go to die
I’ll spell it out:
The R.E.M. song “Man on the Moon” is about Andy Kaufman.
Andy Kaufman was famous for saying things he didn’t mean or believe to get a rise out of people.
Buzz on the Moon was saying things about Milton Bradley that he himself did not believe to make a point.
I don’t know or care what that point was.
Awesome, I can't tell you how much I love pot stirrers on the internet
we simply don’t have enough of those.
I guess, thanks for the research Red, I simply didn’t care enough about his motivations to do it myself
Oh christ that's low.
I’d prefer a poor man’s Ryno thank you.
If you think what SWL is at all well done than I suppose posting pictures and single line comments is just brilliant.
If your so brilliant (as you clearly like to diminish my efforts) why didn’t you pick up on this a week ago huh?
Riddle me that redward?
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I kind of pop in and out of here
So I’ll miss entire memes. I wasn’t here a week ago, so I wasn’t here to bestow my brilliance upon the huddled masses.
I don’t have a problem with your shtick, but it is one of the three things santos does here (the other two are post pictures and hate on Theriot).
I was just using a convenient and familiar point of comparison so we don’t have to deal with the same responses every time you post something.
Apologies if I offended.
I mean that's fine red
but SWL steps over the line of good taste far too often in my opinion. He can be funny sometimes, but most of the time he reaches and I don’t appreciate it. If your going to mock something and go far with it you have to leave a trace so someone understands it’s humor otherwise you are defeating the object of an ironic statement or a satirical character/ploy.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 27, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
SWL Fans Rollcall
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
lol
Illicat I don’t care what you think specifically. You might as well make your name “generic cubs fan”.
It’s not pot stirring, it’s comedic criticism, but then again I don’t expect you to see the value in that whatsoever.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Saying something inflamatory, that you don't believe is pot stirring
when it’s not funny, its hard to call it comedic.
And insulting my screen name? Now THAT’S hilarious. And so original.
Thank you redward for spelling it out.
I guess you don’t see the need for satire in this place, but I do. The comments about Bradley about Soriano about Theriot and his awesomeness, the felatio of Reed Johnson, definitely required mocking.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm a big fan of satire.
But it tends to fall flat on the Internet. Or at least it does in places like blogs where everything moves too fast for anyone to reflect on the absurdity of a statement and realize it was offered in jest.
Sorry for getting pissy.
I think if done absurdly enough and you leave a trail for people to follow, it can be very effective. There are several people who really did enjoy this and even though I don’t claim to be anywhere near as brilliant as Ryno (former poster here and at Another Cubs Blog) and certainly not as much as Kaufman, but instead this was my ode to them and their comedic abilities.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
well said.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, that's just ridiculous.
Maybe Lou should take a couple swings at Dibble for old time’s sake.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Now Lou is pissing me off
- Fuld, Domer & Fox in the OF
- Rami, Riot, Baker and Lee in the IF
- Hill catching…
until further notice. This crap playing the veterans makes me think Lou is taking a cue from Dusty.
Just win the next game...!
Oh sweet jesus please say this is satire.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
What's the point of Fuld and Fox?
We know what they can do and who they are. They’re backups & role players. They’re not the future of this team. They’re both 27, not young kids.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thank you Al.
I know you don’t agree with people like me, but this is spot on. (dying laughing) (got what kind of person I am now?) ducks tomatoes
Fox and Fuld are both backups. If the Cubs are going to make a miracle run Soriano, Bradley, and Soto need to play. And if that doesn’t happen getting Soriano right for next season is a big must. You might as well give it a go.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
You're kind of right,
those guys need to produce, not just play. What makes you think that with more than three-quarters of the season already gone by, these guys will all of a sudden wake up and smell the coffee?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't. (and Bradley is producing)
But there is no point putting old bench players out there. The worst that can happen is Soriano and Soto continue to bomb. The only chance they have (a minuscule one at that) is for their best players to catch fire and take them to playoffs, might as well give it a go BH24. Fuld is not an everyday player because of his bat (moderate OBP, really low slugging), Fox can’t play everyday because of his glove, Hill can’t play everyday because of his bat (his bat is just terrible).
The only thing that should keep Soto/Soriano right now is if they are having surgery (which in a week or two Rami should go and have if they are still way out) and need to shut it down.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm at a loss
with the big guys. I’m just a little bit more willing to try other guys.
Just win the next game...!
wasn't it Lou that used to say
he’d play the players doing better? Well the last time I looked, Fox, Fuld and Baker were playing better than Soriano, Bradley and Fontenot.
Who cares if they’re not the future of the team. The Cubs are 9 games out with less than 40 to go.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you watching the games?
Baker has pretty much taken over at second.
Bradley is hitting .288 / .409 / .466 in August.
The only one you might have an argument for is Soriano. With all the years left on his contract, I don’t see him getting benched anytime soon.
Yeah, I watch
Baker “pretty much has taken over” but should be everyday IMO.
Bradley until last night was OK, still his personal issues seem to weigh more and more on him. Give him a few days off.
Sori should be out even more than recently.
Just win the next game...!
Who do you think (not hope) is going to be most productive (glove & bat) in LF the rest of this season?
If you haven’t given up on this year yet, that person is who should be playing LF.
While I would agree that Soriano has the potential to get super hot and have a monster September, I would hope that you agree the chances of that happening are slim to none. I think putting Fox out there on a more regular basis, especially while Soriano’s knee is still suspect, gives the Cubs the best chance for winning games the rest of this season.
Have Fuld at the ready for the late-inning defensive replacement. Dome and MB are just fine in CF & RF. Rotate Reed in against lefties when he’s healthy.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Fox is just a butcher in the outfield. Soriano has been this year.
There’s two ways I look at it. If Sori is indeed healthy enough to play, then you just hope things come together. He’s a better player than Fox when he’s right. The only reason Fox should play everyday is if Sori is indeed not healthy. At that point the Cubs should shut him down. Then you put Fox in LF.
I personally think they should shut down Soriano, but until Soriano is shut down, you trot him out there and pray for him to catch fire or you try to get his swing right.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
This cannot be serious
You can’t possibly believe this
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Believe it
There are some people that actually believe this. Probably the same ones earlier in the year that were pining for Hoffpauir to start at 1st over Lee.
Part of me hopes the Cubs trade Bradley, Soriano, and Zambrano
That way everybody gets to see their precious Fox and Fuld everyday. The Cubs will win 70 games and all 3 players shipped off will have great seasons.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I'll laugh harder than I ever have before
I’ll enjoy every moment of agony that that 70 win team produces.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, forget the $40M-45M of salary relief
that brings to get better players. Yeah, that won’t matter.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah lets slam shut a championship window
so we can have some salary relief!
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Well this $135M JUGGERNAUT
is really tearing it up aren’t they?!
And if you think the Cubs are going to significantly add to that number, you’re in for a big surprise.
Just win the next game...!
but who
are you going to GET with that $40m?
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
No one your getting will be better than Bradley for the price you have him at.
You realize 5 mil a year is a cheap contract right?
Your not saving 40M dollars, you have to pay him his entire (or the amount your willing to eat) the year you get rid of him. If you keep him you only have 5 mil on the books if you keep him. With Ricketts in place Bradley’s contract won’t prevent anything.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have the $40M and figure out who to get
than to have a $135M PoS team and not be able to get anyone else.
Just win the next game...!
But honestly the true talent level of this team is 91 wins
I have no problem blaming injuries/ bad seasons for this year. There doesn’t always have to be a scape goat, sometimes things just go horribly wrong despite being setup well in the beginning.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 28, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes I can
The three guys I’d like to see sit have been catastrophic disappointments for large stretches of the season.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
But Bradley hasn't been a catastrophic disappointment.
He started really badly, but he’s come out an average player.
Soriano and Soto, yes catastrophic disappointment.
Bradley, not even close. He underperformed no doubt, but he’s not the reason this team sucks.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
But...but...all those players (except Fox) DID play last night.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Last night...yeah
Let’s ask if Soriano would have made those defencive plays Fuld did in LA. Does defence matter?
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Aug 27, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course it matters. And, no, Soriano would not have made those plays.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
a fair point could be made that Fuld wouldn't make those plays 9 times out of 10
Especially the one where he crashed into the fence. God, I sound like I’m defending Soriano, which I don’t like doing
Yeah, but Fuld would have at least tried.
I’m no Soriano hater – but I feel fairly confident that he would have pulled up long before that ball hit the ground.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
but don't say it's because he doesn't care.
You are right that he would have pulled up, but that is because of his leg problems. Not because he doesn’t care.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree and here's why
As a former outfielder (and one that needed every microsecond he could use reading the ball off the bat) Fuld does makes those plays more often than you think because he reads the ball much better.
Reading trajectory as an OF’er is HUGE. It’s why I believe Domer is so good in his natural RF.
Just win the next game...!
Y'know, the ballpark structural component that Fuld crashed into.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Canadian defense
They also have an O-Fence up there.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
of course, here in Chicago...
…it’s dewroughtironfence.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
no problems with your IF
but if you put Fox in right field, you’re going to be very unhappy.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I will chime in on the racism...
Being a part of the Cubs in 2006, and witnessing the stupidity by numberous fans (from the other side of the fence), i thought i could chime in a little bit here. Jacque Jones received his fair share of unwanted, hatred, criticism, racism, and whatever else you would like to call it. it was definitely out of control and un-needed.
I had a few conversations with JJ about it, and it really affected him. He didnt choose who he was, or the color of his skin, but he did choose to play in our Cubby blue. Lets face it, the players can hear you, when you scream stupid remarks, but i have to ask, what is the point of screaming it? Being racist to a player, really what is the point? Is he going to play better because you just noted the color of his skin? Is he going to step up because a drunk, no clue, idiot in the stands called him a racist remark?
Personally i thought JJ handled the situation pretty well, he enjoyed being here in Chicago, and he also understood that there were good fans out there, but that was a difficult picture to paint because the idiots seem to shine through more now a days. Hopefully MB can handle the situation the same way if not better. The game is not about the color of your skin, or your heritage, or anything to do with it, it is America’s past time, so we should treat it that way.
Finally, i have also witnessed fans directing racial remarks towards Wrigely employees, and i was absolutely blown away. An usher would not let in a 20 something into the stadium because he was too intoxicated, it was very clear, i actually think he still had a bottle on him. Once the Usher refused to let him in, the patron told the usher to go F off you N, totally in appropriate and childish. At no point was there merit to say that, nor was it needed.
All i have to say is this, to the fan, drink as much as you want, eat as much as you want, but if you have something nonproductive to say, or something derogatory to say, keep it to yourself. You are not making the player feel stupid, or making that player play better, you are making yourself look stupid. Because you can make a racial doesnt make you better than the person you are directing it to, it makes you lesser of a person.
Go Cubs.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Aug 27, 2009 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 9 recs
rec'd
thanks for sharing and this should be its own post
by CalCalender on Aug 27, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Glad you posted this Higgy
Being someone that thinks players don’t (and shouldn’t) listen to the crowd, JJ’s comments give me food for thought.
My line of reasoning has been “Well, if you’re such a good player, then you’d just block out what they’re saying”. I’ve even equated on-the-field success with blocking out those types of distractions. But now I’m starting to think that it’s simply not that easy to do.
That's what happens...
…when more people are coming that consider Wrigley a beer garden, rather than a ballpark.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I'm just not sure I buy that. There are drunks at every ball park in every city in the country
Where I live, the closest thing we have to a professional baseball team is the American Association Lincoln Saltdogs. There are plenty of people who get wasted there as well.
Booze and sports is hardly a new pairing.
I think it comes down to...
…the primary reason these folks are going to the park; are they going because they first thought is to watch a baseball game, or is it to party in a place that is “the cool place to be”.
IMO, you have more of the latter going on compared to most other major league venues.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I disagree.
Most ballparks get filled these days with casual fans.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Last game I was at, the guy sitting next to me was turned away from the game so he could talk to his friends the entire time. And he spent most of the game checking Facebook updates on his iPhone.
Such a waste of a seat.
That happens at every ballpark and arena in North America.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Late in the broadcast...the TV guys
were fascinated by this woman who was animatedly talking to her friends. She looked like she couldn’t have told you what inning the game was in if you gave her 9 guesses, but she had great seats.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Um, that sounds like the 4 people that sit in front of me every game...
They’re corporate seats, and I find those are the absolute worst.
I don't disagree...
…on the casual fan part. What I am saying is there is a different reason a lot of the casual fans at Wrigley are there compared to other cities.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Agreed. And I think higher ticket prices have a lot to do with it.
No stats or analysis to back this up, I just have a feeling that a lot of the “real” baseball fans (and you can interpret “real” however you want) have been priced out of going to as many games as they usually do.
But in markets like Chicago where the ticket demand remains strong, those real fans are being replaced by “casual” fans (again – interpret “casual” however you want). And chances are, these casual fans have more disposable income available so they can afford to buy more beer. More beer into folks who just aren’t as in to the game can very well lead to less-than-pleasant situations.
Sweeping generalizations? Sure. But I’d have to say very plausible.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'll throw in a couple more sweeping generalizations
The people with money tend to have come from money (I grew up in Winnetka, for full disclosure). And that usually comes with a sense of entitlement and expecting people to do what you want them to do. So imagine those that are watching the game have a pretty short fuse and equally short memory when it comes to player performance.
Kind of like Yankees fans.
just
curious who what were you doing for the team back in 06?
by CalCalender on Aug 27, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I was the...
Left-handed Batting Practice pitcher, so i spent a lot of time with JJ and Jaun Pierre.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Probably...
…be left handed, be able to throw a lot of quality strikes and a promise not to strike too many guys out.
In all seriousness, you need skills to be a good batting practice pitcher.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Well I get that!!
I played through college but no farther. I just think that would be a dream job (other than being on the 25-man), and I understand that not just anyone could do it.
Actually...
The coaching staff usually does it. i was pretty much the first one to be hired outside of the coaching staff. I had a friend of a friend if you would like to call it that.
And yes, you have to be able to throw a large amount of strikes and understand the game. And be able to put about 250 pitches everyday.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
250 pitches a day
Dusty must have loved you
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Aug 27, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely...
It was a dream, an experience, and with all do respect to my wife (wedding), it was the coolest thing i have ever been a part of, no doubt. The first time i stepped out of the dugout with the jersey on, that was wild.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
I'm not usually one to envy,
but that really is great. Congratulations on having been part of that. I played through high school and for a small college, but never really had what it took to go farther. I can only imagine!
Thanks!
I choose golf in college over baseball (some regrets yea), but it was the right choice in the end. So doing this was like a revival if you know what i mean.
Saying goodbye to Maddux when he was traded, probably the coolest thing.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Higgy, many belated thanks...
…for grooving all those batting practice pitches that kept us ballhawks busy in 2006. Wish you would have gotten your gig before the bleacher expansion though. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Interesting, if disturbing, post.
I always gave Jacque high grades for effort. And I’d imagine Jones would probably have a lot to share with Milton about getting through this difficult period.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I appreciate what you're saying
But I think you’re giving the racist fans a little too much credit. They don’t think about what they’re saying. Racists are angry, insecure people looking for someone to take the blame for everything that is wrong in their sad little lives.
If you were to question the motivation of these people, you would not get a thoughtful response. You would be called a fag for asking.
In my opinion, the only way to deal with these people is call security on them, toss them out of the game, and ban them for life.
I agree...
The good fans need to step up and take care of the bad ones. You are correct on that one.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
JJ got bashed so bad that 1st year he was here because was downright terrible!
and that’s why it started with Milton out there this year with the bad start leading up to ultimate display of hot dogging when he posed for the fans and then threw out #2 into the bleachers. That’s why he’s getting heckled and now it will be 10 times worse after his whinefest to the media and just wait till he goes on the road again, think the crackers down in STL aren’t going to give him an earful?? Signing this guy was a titanic mistake for this team, you can’t a guy with rabbit ears and a hair trigger temper playing in front of packed houses every day and striking out with the bases loaded vs. STL and getting thrown out of the game! Face it, he is no good for this team just like every other one he’s been on and he better not be back next year if anyone’s got any dreams of winning anything!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Jones hit
27 hr’s in his first year. And bashing is one things but if they guy went 0-10000 he didnt deserve what he got and for you to say otherwise is sad
by CalCalender on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
you said
and i quote “he got bashed so bad because he was downright terrible”
Not only is that completely false but you are saying he got what was coming to him because of his play.
by CalCalender on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I was referring to Jones' 2nd season with the Cubs when he started so badly
and was getting heckled because of it.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
You dont have a clue do you?
The guy was batting .300 by june. He was second on the team in HRs and RBIs. So how is that downright terrible? JJ wasnt as bad as everyone wanted him to be.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
I agree...
…and I admired the way he took all the critisicm.
His overall numbers were pretty decent, but I think a lot of people got frustrated with him because he would have some absolutely brutal AB’s where he looked completely overmatched. Then, out of no where, he would get a big hit to drive in a run.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Very suspect
especially in RF when his throws to the plate were hitting on the OF grass. He settled down a lot once he had to start playing CF and ended the year playing really well.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
I thought Jones had the coolest home run reaction in baseball
Just that casual way he let the bat fall out of his hands. I know it used to piss off Cardinal fans, so that’s a win right there.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
That was awesome...
…though I remember it as him sorta slamming the bat down immediately after hitting the home run.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Thanks for insight
Paying the admission fee for a ballgame is not a license to be a practicing racist. If MLB does not already consider racist taunting fan interference, then it should.
by AboutTheCubs on Aug 27, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Higgy, that was fabulous.
Just because you haven’t seen racism doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Also racism can be causal racism (angry black man stereotype, the conspiracy theorist crazy black guy who thinks all whites are out to get him, lazy/hotheaded Latino players, etc), when someone makes the claim of racism (at least when I do) they usually don’t make it flippantly.
Examine the situation and remove your bias. I admit I’ve joined in the causal and latent racism on several occasions. The rising sun headbands/horry cow shirts treat Fukudome like a novelty item and while some Fukudome merchandise is not intended to be racist it unfortunately is racist.
Don’t act offended about a claim of racism unless you can prove without a doubt, with objective evidence that you don’t. If you have taken part in some racist activity, take it in, and make yourself a better person for it.
So you don’t think I’m talking from my Ivory tower I’ll list my racist/insensitive discourse.
I have used the term “jew” for cheap before and I get called on it. I still slip into this a few times, but I feel I consistently realiz it
Because my friends were good enough to call me out on it I was able to stop using “gay” as an insult.
Because my friends are good friends, they pointed out how ridiculous and racist the term “nukka” is despite the fact that it is not the exact N word (mainly used during online gaming) and I was able to stop doing that.
I still have issues identifying certain things done by Black or Latino characters I see on TV as typical Latino or Black (robbing a bank, gang banging, doing drugs, gangster rap, etc) actions even if the action isn’t representative of those kinds of behavior. I try to say to myself that it’s satire, but it’s not it’s laughing at a different race.
The hardest thing in this realm to give up (and I’m still working on this one, believe me it’s hard) was the term “retarded” (as I felt it literally meant slow and dumb and was exactly what I was trying to portray), but I can’t choose how language operates in a society. Language takes on a force of it’s own and as such the term retarded is associated with the learning/developmentally disabled. I felt it was an insult first and then was used as a disparaging term for the mentally challenged later, but I was wrong. I still slip into this way to often still.
In baseball, mocking white people for being nonathletic is a constant theme. It’s not right and I know that. White’s don’t deserve racism anymore than any other race. I constantly do it. It may not seem like much to you, but being white and mocking your own race is still racism and it’s not that it offends people (no one gets angry at disparaging comments toward white’s) it’s that it’s wrong.
My name is Pat Larkin and I hope that me laying down my faults openly and with my real name (it’s not like you don’t already know ShawnGoldman or Harry Pavlidis) helps people, in some small way, come face that either he/she has these tendencies, especially when it comes to baseball (as it relates to this Cubs blog) or that publicly and within the entire public sphere (media, public events, cultural beliefs) has these undercurrents.
To those who get on Milton Bradley, think about how bothered he’s been by it. For an average/slightly above average player he sure catches a lot of flack. Is there any latent racism in your dislike of his personality? Just ask yourself that.
For those who get pissed at Z’s personality question why you are so upset with him? He’s been a productive pitcher, why is there so much concern over his personality. Why is it so easy for people to call him crazy?
I hope this isn’t dismissed by people. Instead I hope people take this seriously and this can make a small difference.
Monopoly, twenty-one, checkers, and chess...
by Buzz on the Moon on Aug 27, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Where are the RF ushers? What is Cubs management doing to address this problem?
Knowing that there is an allegation of racial taunting in the RF bleacher section directed towards Milton Bradley, why don’t the Cubs saturate the area with ushers to send a message to everyone sitting there that such behavior is intolerable, and to quickly identify and then boot any of those idiots out if racist taunts are made? I know Lou has spoken out on this issue but what has the team done to defuse this thing? Did anyone at the game last night notice any increased usher presence out there?
As a Cubs fan, the stigma of being a racist bothers me very much and I hope Cubs management is doing something to directly address this for the sake of MB AND the vast majority of non-racist fans.
maybe
Al could shed some light on what changes if any he has seen.
by CalCalender on Aug 27, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
That would be a step in the right direction.
I’m also very bothered by the presence of racism in Cubs fandom as well. The organization needs to take steps to show it’s not acceptable, and doing something in one of the fandom’s most visible and important loci could be effective…I hope.
by owllover711 on Aug 27, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Al
all this angst about Bradley and yet you don’t even mention that he walked, hit a home run, had 3 RBIs and scored twice? He practically won the game himself.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
I'm sorry.
I missed it, it was above the fold. My bad. I apologize.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 27, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Anyone have updates on the weather and game time?
Figures I’d buy tix for today’s game to take my daughter to her first game. Falling out of contention and steady rain. I can pick ’em.
Any information appreciated.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
In the recap you said
Koyie Hill, who had led off the seventh inning with a single, to second base with the score tied 2-2. Hill eventually scored the lead run on a bloop single by Ryan Theriot
Didn’t he score on an infield single by Bradley?
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
You're right.
Bradley got credit for a fielder’s choice on that play, not a hit, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Y'all know there's a new thread up, right?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Bradley
Don’t get me wrong when I say this because I truly love this team,city,fans the entire organization. But I don’t feel sorry for MB one bit. Play like you want to win and the people of Chicago will get off your back. But since he “can’t wait to get off the field” I’m sorry, but we want to win MB!! We need guys that are hungry instead of guys looking for a fat pay check. The chemistry is way gone with this team, you can just see it in their faces in the dugout. Which btw MB sits alone by himself! The guy doesn’t care about the team,he cares about his stats,ego and the next paycheck. We have had a rough year but the last months have told the tale which we have all too familarily seen before. But I’m not giving up and they shouldn’t either…we have great players on this team that are struggling and trying to do better. But with a guy like Bradley making the comments he did doesn’t help. He just incouraged more harassment,sadly but true. Like Bradley is the only guy that gets taunted by the “bums”? Sorry but I’m sure lots of MLB players get yelled at….Bradley needs to remember Jackie Robinson and what he had to go through. Wipe away your tears MB and play the game with pride and screw everything else.
" The reason I am here, they tell me, is that I played the game a certain way, that I played the game the way it was supposed to be played."- Ryne Sandburg's Hall of Fame speech
by Sandburg23 on Aug 27, 2009 6:07 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Marlins agree to unretire No. 5 for Logan Morrison, who will honor his father’s favorite player
- Weatherman Derek Holland does Dallas TV
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
