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Has this pursuit of a World Series championship turned Cubs fans into lunatics?

It's long been my assertion that current Cubs fans citing the 100-year lack of a title as the reason for their angst is bullshit. Unless you have been a fan for that entire time, you have no more right to gripe than a Nationals/Expos fan, or a Mariners fan, or a Rangers fan.

But it seems the all-out bloodlust for winning a World Series is turning Cubs fans into an ugly, ugly bunch. A bunch that says players must be perfect in each and every game, from Game 1 to Game 162. That the ebbs and flows of a normal season must not apply (remember the crapfit Cubs fans had when Lou rested a lot of the regulars in the Giants' game when Lincecum pitched?). That nobody but nobody can have a down year, and that if they do, they must be DFA'd, put on waivers or summarily executed, whichever is more expedient.

And it appears to be affecting proven, skilled players to the point that they don't want to play here.

All the stuff about Bradley and the racist comments from the bleachers (after Jacque Jones, LaTroy Hawkins and Dusty Baker relayed the same stories, and with other stories regarding Soriano and Patterson being relayed from other observers). Now Zambrano talking about wanting to be traded (even if it's supposed to be in jest). The constant bitching on this board and on talk radio, etc., even when the Cubs win. The unbelievable nitpicking that goes on with every analysis of every one of Lou's twitches.

Don't tell me it's the same way in other cities. It isn't. I don't think things are this bad in New York and in Boston right now. Maybe Mets fans are bitching, but they've had epic, late-season collapses the last two seasons, and this season they're well under .500 (injuries haven't helped them, by a long shot).

I want the Cubs to win a World Series in the worst possible way. But I don't want to sell my soul in the process. I still want to enjoy a baseball season. I still want to appreciate the nuances of the game and still know that it often doesn't turn out how you expect. (Was the Tigers' fanbase this unruly during their less-than-expected season last year?)

Not to excuse the way this team has played, or the disappointment this seaon has been thus far. Not at all. But if Cubs fans were too docile in the old days (and I think they were), I think they might have gone too far in the other direction.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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It makes you wonder

It’s hard to appreciate the product on the field this season. If last season’s 97 win team was a perfect storm, their mediocrity is the result of another perfect storm. I honestly don’t know if this team has to suck for a few more years before the fair weather fans that make everyone else look bad finally leave this team alone and go pull for the Cardinals, White Sox or Yankees. I don’t care. When I read comments across the internet that the reason why other baseball fans hope the Cubs never win is because of what the fans did to Steve Bartman, I wonder if that World Series is truly worth anything.

Maybe if the Cubs hadn’t passed on DiMaggio or if we hadn’t imploded in 1969, the angst might not be at monumental levels. Do I hate it that teams that haven’t been around for twenty years have World Series titles? Of course I do. Do I hate it that Cubs fans may have spoiled our opportunities at getting good free agents? You betcha. Curb down on racism or it’s just going to get worse down the road. You know what? You can be a racist. That’s your right. However, keep your mouth shut in public so no one can hear what you have to say. And if you can’t keep your mouth shut, don’t go to Wrigley Field so other people have to hear you. Has this August implosion driven us this stupid that we excuse racist comments towards players we don’t like, as if we could be selective about such things?

You decided to be a Cubs fan. You didn’t have to be a Cubs fan just because your parents were Cubs fan. I come from a family of Yankee fans, so imagine that. I broke ranks with my family, not accepting the fandom that has some of the greatest history in the game, and embraced the Cubs. They’re my team and there’s no turning back. Am I upset? Sure. We all are. This team fell apart this month, which hasn’t sit well with us at all. It doesn’t excuse the racism. Nothing excuses it.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 27, 2009 11:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with pretty much everything you say here Ace,

…with the possible exception of your hope that maybe a few lousy seasons would help us shed the bandwagon fans. I remember hoping for that exact same result when the Cubs starting to fall apart in the early 90’s. The problem with bandwagon fans, in my experience, is that they always seem to come back as soon as the Cubs are on an upswing.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 27, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So who is allowed to pull for the Cubs?

Please provide a list of acceptable fans.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hold on killer

Did bluekool suggest certain fans are “not allowed” to pull for the Cubs? You’ve been around here long enough to get what kind of fans he is calling “Bandwagon” and most of them are the parrots for the wailing lunatics who often make inflamatory comments about players, management, heck even BCB posters. No fan has to like every player or be positive all the time, but there is a distinction between being civil and psycho.

 Bandwagon fans certainly make the team money, but they can also be a pain in the ass.

Just sayin’

"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"

by StevenABQ on Aug 28, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least you quantified the statement

You at least have an idea as to what fans you would prefer not to deal with, and I can buy it for the most part. But koolaid boy just makes a statement that he doesn’t want a bandwagon fan which means almost nothing. Does that mean that he doesn’t want fans around that do cheer even when the team is 50 games under .500? Does it mean fans that don’t buy tickets during off seasons?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs + no "bandwagon"

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trying again - The Cubs, with no "bandwagon" or "casual" fans....

….are the Brewers.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Without the bandwagon fans...

…it would just be 1983. And of course, fans and players alike exhibited nothing but unfailingly civil behavior back then.

"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko

by LaddieRenfroe on Aug 28, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I guess

It was a vague stereotype [like most are]. I agree with D98, you do need such fans they are a necessary part of any larger market team. But I took bluekoolaides remark to be pointed towards the worst of that bunch. Which I think we all could agree are not our favorite fans to interact with. Seriously, I could care less how much a Cubs fan follows the team or the duration of time they have been a fan. A fan is a fan, but when you are an uninformed fan and acting in a way that is ignorant and destructive – thats when I think there is a problem.

"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"

by StevenABQ on Aug 28, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just for clarity's sake...

…I’ll go into what I mean by "bandwagon’ fans; bandwagon fans, to me, are the ones who climb on because it’s suddenly “fun” and “cool” to root for the Cubs when they’re on a upswing (as they have been the last few seasons).
They tend to have very little knowledge of or interest in Cubs’ history. They’re more of a “quick fix” type of fan who, when things start to get bleak, will eventually lose interest and drift away.
My point was essentially that it’s easy to root for a team when everythings’s going well (and believe me, I’ve met more than my share of these type of cub “fans” in my life) but it’s those who stick with the team through thick and (if you’re a Cub fan mostly) thin that are the true fans.
I never intended to make any statement about who is “allowed” to root for the Cubs (although I should have realized that there are people out there who will literally look for reasons to be provoked). I was simply pointing out that a few lean years always helps to separate the true Cub fans from the posers.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 28, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

and want to add, that sometimes normal fans will point a finger and state its fairweather fans causing the uproar, and neglect to look in the mirror at what they too are doing.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 28, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think they need to ramp up security in the bleachers big time,

and remove these racist idiots. that has to be a very vocal few. just get them out of the ballpark.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Aug 30, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there any evidence

of racism other then what Bradley is saying? I mean, the Cubs are on record saying there hasn’t been ONE complaint from the bleachers. While there are always a few unruly fans in the bleachers, most people out there are normal people and having a good time, and most of those people would speak up if someone were being racially offensive. I know I would immediately notify security.

I think it is more likely Bradley is scapegoating and falsely claiming racism. It is his history to always place blame everywhere but on himself. His remarks and actions have brought this firestorm down on him, and I honestly don’t get why so many people here are giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I’m very upset we are all being painted with the same broad brush. I have been to the bleachers 13 times the last three season (admittedly a relatively small sample size) and have never seen anything even remotely inappropriate being said or done, other then the ONE guy that dumped his beer on Victarino.

by paulucla on Aug 27, 2009 11:50 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

I hope you're right

But this has come up more than once, as I cited above. Bradley isn’t exactly the best messenger for this. But sometimes when you cry wolf, there really is a wolf.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 27, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a self-righteous liberal

that hates racism more then just about anything. Is it possible he’s heard a racist comment or two? Of course. And that is completely unacceptable if it happened, and anyone who heard it and didn’t rate the asshats out should be ashamed. But there’s no evidence other then Bradley’s claims. And when you look at his track record, he’s not exactly the most credible guy around.

But it really pisses me off that we’re all being painted with this broad stroke. Z’s comments today were just horrific. All that money these guys are getting paid to play in this great city and in this great stadium with all this history and passion, and they BITCH BITCH BITCH. Sorry, I have friends getting laid off every day, worried about taking care of their families, and all these guys do is make their lives out to be so damn tough. Give me a freakin’ break.

by paulucla on Aug 27, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"I think it is more likely Bradley is scapegoating and falsely claiming racism"

Pretty bold accusation.

It’s one thing to say the fans “are against you”(scapegoating), quite another to claim they’re racists. That’s quite a big step for a ballplayer, even with Milton’s history, to make without it actually being true. And I’m not sure of his history as a bold faced liar, maybe you could help me out there.

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 28, 2009 6:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fwiw...

I think self-righteous conservatives hate racism as much as self-righteous liberals. Bigotry is not the purview of one ideology.

(End of my comments on political subject).

by CubsWin!Oregon on Aug 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Z said what?

Didn’t hear.

See those of us on opposite sides of “certain” views can agree on things. For instance on the guys getting paid comment. I totally agree. And why we care so much is because our passion for the team is life long, not while under contract (Except for Ronnie). And for some of those guys it’s not even a passion while they’re under contract here. Try not to get too PO’d about that because IMO it will never change. They just want to get paid.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The other thing I want to add

is that it’s freakin’ normal for fans to be upset. The fan base had high expectations this season and have seen an unfocused team consistently displaying a lack of fundamentals and almost zero grit. We pay a lot of money to go to games, buy merchandise, etc. Is it too much to ask little things like for our $30 million right fielder to know how many outs there are?

by paulucla on Aug 27, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

You point out the not knowing how many outs there are. Same thing apparently happened to a White Sox outfielder recently. That has not turned into a capital case, like it has here.

Sometimes I think a lot of this is jealousy. Or else why is their salary cited virtually every time?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I pointed out one of many

examples I could give you why I do not like Bradley. Part of it is that I live in San Diego so I have seen this whole saga before. It’s just that here in San Diego he couldn’t really blame the fans since their base is so apathetic anyway. Here it was the umpires being out to get him.

Honestly, it’s like none of you are aware of his history. This whole season was quite predictable.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Different uniform, different time

Sometimes a man’s history follows him around because people won’t stop talking about it. In this case, Bradley gets heckled for producing. Instead of cheering for Bradley like Red Sox fans did when David Ortiz went through his slump, Bradley was demonized and it seemed that Cubs fans were already using him as a scapegoat.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 28, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't condone

booing at all.

OTOH, you seriously don’t get the difference between Ortiz and Milton? Seriously?

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care about their differences

Those differences are irrelevant in my mind. The point was that Boston fans came out to support one of our own and Cubs fans demonized one of their own.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 28, 2009 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Irrelevant in your mind?

Well, for the rest of us:

Player A was a member of two World Championship teams and one of the faces of the franchise AND his crime was something many fans are skeptical of to begin with.

Player B was a cypher with a history of issues who had done nothing yet for the team.

I support Bradley and I want him back — though not if his teammates don’t — but it is ludicrous to say Bradley and Ortiz should be treated the same.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which fanbase looks better?

I’m sure winning a couple of World Series in recent years will improve your fanbase, but that’s besides the point. I’m not talking about their crimes. I’m talking about the fact that they slumped early in the season. I’ve been critical of Bradley, but I’ve also been critical of most players on the roster when I feel it’s deserved. Does that mean I want the guy run out of town? No. I wonder how many people would be gushing next year if Bradley returned to career numbers.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 28, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ortiz had produced two WS rings for the Sawx

Oritz had been a cornerstone that earned the right for some good will for his actions on the field. MB hasn’t even completed his first season, and so far he hasn’t produced. When MB anchors a team that wins a WS, then he can be a pain in the butt (it will be just be Militon being Milton) till then he is just a pain in the butt that isn’t producing.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they are completely differant situations

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 28, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you on Bradley

It’s been pointed out countless times on BCB that Bradley has a problem of some sort everywhere-he-goes. Then somebody here will find a way to excuse Bradley and will shout you down. Sorry, but that just doesn’t fly. The common denominator in all of Bradley’s problems is Bradley. There isn’t a player in baseball, save for possibly Sheffield, who ends up in complaining about something as often as Bradley does. If he was all that damn good, he wouldn’t be on his seventh, eighth or whatever it is team by now. But that fact gets discounted too. What has gone down with Bradley this last week should surprise nobody.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 28, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your entire "take" sucks

do you know that the Cubs have recorded roughly 3,375 outs this season and, stealing a quote from you, “asshats” continually harp on Bradley having a brain fart for 1 out?

Bradley was wronged by the umpire, so much so that the umpire was SUSPENDED by MLB. Any other position by you is ignorant.

I think by your words, you are one of the Bradely haters and enjoy this ill-conceived feeding frendzy surrounding MB.

What a joke.

by socalbob on Aug 28, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a whole, I think the salary indicates the disappointment associated with this team

The Cubs have a $136 million payroll and short of a miracle, will miss the playoffs this season. That by itself is bad. But to point to a single player’s salary and say, “We’re paying you such and such. Count outs.” As if none of us have ever had brain farts at the office before. Just because you’re not getting paid Bradley’s salary doesn’t make his mistakes worse than yours. It’s like the people who thumb through tabloids to point the finger at celebrity problems as if it somehow made them more righteous. Baseball is a difficult sport. Anyone that has played it can appreciate that fact.

Do I wish Bradley had a better start to his season? That’s right up there with wishing Alfonso Soriano could have played around career norms, wishing Aramis Ramirez hadn’t dislocated his shoulder, wishing Carlos Zambrano stayed off the DL, wishing Carlos Marmol could consistently find the strike zone and last, but not least, wishing this team would still be in the thick of contention right now. Soriano gets criticized for saying two straight division titles is a good run. Of course it is. We’ve been Cubs fans long enough to know that consecutive postseason appearances hadn’t happened since Frank Chance was a member of the Cubs. I’m not going to criticize Soriano for speaking the obvious. I reserve that for his approach at the plate, but that’s a different story entirely.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 28, 2009 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes and

if you are getting paid $30k a year to produce product X and you don’t produce product X you get fired. So why should player A making $30 million not produce should he be treated differently?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because any deal to get rid of Bradley right now would not help the Cubs

They still owe him two years on the contract. He’s here to stay.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 28, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So a fan should cheer and be happy when he produces at this level?

Or is acceptable to voice a displeasure with him for having a sub-performance?

I get the Cubs are stuck with him, but it does not mean that the fanbase has to be happy when he produces at a sub-par level, does it?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a big difference between criticism when it's warranted and criticism for the sake of criticism

Unfortunately, I’ve seen a lot of criticism for the sake of criticism in Bradley’s case. It doesn’t mean there aren’t valid reasons to criticize Bradley’s playing and they do exist. I’ve criticized Bradley’s play before. However, some stuff I’ve seen makes me wonder if Milton beat the dog and ran off with the wife. It has been as if many Cubs fans and the media have turned Bradley into the scapegoat for the entire season. Does his play deserve criticism? Sure. I’ll be the first to say that. Does it excuse the hatred I’ve seen from a number of Cubs fans? No it doesn’t. That’s the point I’m trying to make.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 28, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley

is paid to play baseball.

He has done so.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes he is

but to what level of play has he played too? Just because you show up to work doesn’t mean you are doing your job.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

for pete's sake.

here’s his august line:

.269/.387/.436/.823

He’s hit 3 home runs, has 9 RBIs, walked TWELVE TIMES, has an OPS+ of 109. YOU CANNOT ARGUE THAT MILTON BRADLEY IS NOT DOING HIS JOB. Did he start the season slowly? Yes. But he’s a good batter and a good fielder, and the second half has SHOWN THAT.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great

One good month!!!!

What was his line in May? June? or July? what is his line for the year?

We shouldn’t care about those months because they don’t support your cause?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no. I was attempting to answer the "what has he done for me lately" concept.

July: .275/.457/.420/.878
June: .273/.377/.348..725
May: .268/.348/.439/.787
April: .118/.333/.294/.627

It’s that terrible April that really drags him down. Take that out, and he’s batting .275 for the year. That’s pretty good. in fact, it would be almost exactly in line with his career numbers:

.278/.372/.451/.823

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's compare to other RF

Here is Bradley compared to other RF

Bradley .255/.387/.401/.788

Fancoeur .269/.299/.404/.703
Romero .270/.331/.352/.683
Diaz .319/.383/.496/.880
Markakis .303/.355/.474/.829
Drew .261/.379/.491/.870
Dye .264/.374/.479/..825
Gomes .281/.361/.563/.923
Choo .301/.399/.482/.881
Ethier .287/.372/.539/.911
Werth .271/.374/.523/.898

As you can see he may not be the worst RF, but he would fall in the bottom half, and show me another RF out there who causes so much distraction?

And for taking out one month, his numbers are what they are. You can’t just decide what numbers you look, Oh I was bad this week but the following week I was a superstar, you should pay me what A-Rod makes because this week I out hit him.
My vote is cut Bradley free.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know what your vote is.

He had a bad beginning of the year. But it is possible to look at his production in the second half vs his production in the first half. He’s clearly doing better then that .255 avg indicates.

He doesn’t cause the distraction. Go talk to Sullivan about that.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even that month isn't good enough.

I hate to be debbie downer about it. But even if that were Milton’s average month, instead of his best month, it wouldn’t be good enough for a team in the Cubs’ position.

As a big-market, big spending team, they need more than a 109 OPS+ from their RF – especially when they’re committing 8 figures to the position. Projecting these August stats out for the entire year gets us… well, 15 HR and 70-ish RBI.

And I really don’t see how we can say that he’s a good fielder, by any metric. He moves like Cliff Floyd out there, and his UZR has been negative. Really, his “good fielder” days were many years, and many knee surgeries, ago.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In 2006, he had a perfectly fine UZR. He’s stayed healthy, he’s learned right field in Wrigley this year. There’s no reason to suspect he wouldn’t improve next year.

By no means do I suggest that this has been a good year for Bradley. However, he has shown consistent improvement throughout the year, and I expect he will be much closer to career numbers next year.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

In 2006, his UZR was fine.

He was also 28 back then. He also stole 10 bases that year, in 90-odd games. He was a different player back then.

In 2007, he blew out his knee. Now, he doesn’t steal bases, and doesn’t play a particularly good OF.

None of this upsets me as much as the fact that Hendry signed Milton for his “left-handed power”…. considering that Milton Bradley has a long, well established track record of 12-15 HR seasons, with 50-65 RBI and a decent OBP.

The guy has 78 HR and a .433 SLG for his career as a lefty. In over 820 games and 2650 plate appearances over 10 years. 78 home runs.

In essence, Hendry signed Mark Grace to be our middle-of-the-order run producer and to play RF. For $10M annually.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

assuming that’s true, then Hendry was wrong. However, that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a pretty good outfielder, and has been productive for us.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

However, he has shown consistent improvement throughout the year, and I expect he will be much closer to career numbers next year.

Rec’d

This encapsulates the reason why most of the Bradley defenders here are defending him. He’s got a good track record of being a great baseball player.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Aug 28, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All that and it's reasonable to expect he will perform to our outperform

his contract.

I look at the bigger money players signed for 2010 in two camps. Players I expect will provide offense that meets or exceeds their contract and those that will fall below for various reasons whether it’s declining skills, rewarded for a career year, etc.

Meet/Exceed:
Derrick Lee
Milton Bradley
Aramis Ramirez
Ted Lilly

Fall Below:
Alfonso Soriano
Kosuke Fukudome
Carlos Zambrano
Ryan Dempster

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why do you think

Dome will regress?

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't. I think he'll stay the same.

His contract bumps from $11.5 to $13M and I don’t believe his production matches the contract.

What is his dollar value based upon production?

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He'll earn it, esp if he keeps playing CF

This year:

3.0 WAR, worth $13.6mm

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Aug 28, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was curious about that.

Are the dollars calculated off of a ratio of WAR to existing contracts? I look at the offseason deals struck by Dunn, Ibanez, and Bradley and am curious how long it takes these ratios to catch up with changes in market.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Iit has to do with total team payrolls

From Dave Cameron’s explanation on fangraphs:

Essentially he looks at the win values of the FA classes and does a weighted average

To calculate this, I did a three year weighted average of their win values, then multiplied that value by .95 to factor in aging and estimate what teams considered considered a player’s true talent win rate for 2008. In total, I came up with 88 wins, or $4.5 million per win. That’s what major league teams were paying for a marginal win last winter, so for 2008, that’s a players dollar per win value as listed on the site.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Aug 28, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For giggles, I looked up Dunn and Ibanez.

I don’t get it. Dunn has a 2.1 and dollars of $9.5, and Ibanez is an identical 3.0. Dome is a much better defender, but GM’s pay more for bats than gloves.

I see your point and appreciate the fangraphs backup. I also doubt Bradley will only contribute $5M as stated in the same blog, but I’m wrong all the time.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Define "track record", and define "great".

He has a very long track record of ~12 HR, ~55 RBI seasons.

The only years in Bradley’s career that can even charitably be called “great” are

1. 2003 with Cleveland, in which he posted a .321 /.421 /.501 line in about 100 games and 450 PA. Of course, he only had 10 HR and 56 RBI.

2. His partial 2007 with LA and SDG, where he posted a combined .306 /.402 /.545 line, with 13 HR and 37 RBI in only 61 games and 244 AB.

3. His 2008 with TEX, where he posted a .321 /.436 /.563 season with 22 HR and 77 RBI.

A total of around 2 admittedly great seasons since becoming a full-time player (when healthy) in 2001. Never demonstrating particularly good power, always getting on base at a very good clip.

I wouldn’t call that a very good track record of being “great.” I’d call it a good track record of being a high-OBP/ low SLG player, with sporadic bursts of SLG, during which he was worthwhile as a corner OF.

I don’t see how you can commit so much in money and years to a corner OF who doesn’t hit for extra bases or drive in runs. We already had one of those.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's also paid not to be a distraction

And Pinella is on record saying this is a distraction.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that

And I’ve said that I wish Bradley wouldn’t rise to the bait. But he IS paid to play baseball,a nd that’s what he’s doing.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not saying this is definitive but...
@noakleyca: #cubs doubt bradley? not sure now. drunk behind me yells they’ll beat him like he’s rodney king. same guy had bragged earlier he’s sox fan

Posted on Twitter yesterday. Maybe noakleyca can give us some more background on the incident.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the comment is true

I would assume noakleyca reported the person in question immediately to security and he was immediately ejected from the stands, right?

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to hear the reply

Did anyone report this guy?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My reply was simply that he'll have to ask noakleyca.

I’m merely passing along an anecdote showing overt racism from a relatively repuatable source.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

About a guy claiming to be a White Sox fan

Fans of other teams buy tickets too.

And I’d still like to know if anyone reported this guy, because security is apparently on the alert now.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The story just stinks

and does nothing for me in relatoin to Bradley.

A WHITE SOX FAN goes to Wrigley and makes a racist remark during the heat of this whole issue and apparently the surrounding Cub fans sit on their hands and do nothing about it? Hmmmm.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're missing the point - intentionally or otherwise.

The point is this: Racist remarks are directed toward Milton Bradley. He is not lying. He is not overreacting. OBVIOUSLY, OBVIOUSLY nearby fans should take action and OBVIOUSLY, OBVIOUSLY these individuals should be dealt with. But the point is it (more than likely) happens.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get your point

and I’m not being intentionally difficult.

Your point is wrong though. AFTER MILTON MAKES HIS ACCUSATIONS a White Sox fan shows up in the bleachers and makes a racist remark. This is by no means evidence that his accusations were true.

If he comes out today and says he heard the Rodney King remark, then your friend’s tweet would be evidence to support him.

You are acting as if it were a Cub fan, and again it’s very important what the Cub fans did in response imo.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not acting as it were a Cubs fan.

I could care less if it was a Cubs fan, Sox fan or Brevard County Manatees fan. The point is: This stuff probably happens. And while it is true that this happened after Milton raised the issue, I would still point to an incident like this as at least supporting the notion that this stuff probably happens.

As I stated in my original comment on this, I am not trying to use this anecdote as definitive evidence. But many people seem to be far too willing to just shrug off Bradley’s remarks and say, “Meh, probably never happens.”

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Milton

has never offered any specifics whatsoever. His answers has been sarcastic and vague. Like most people who make things up.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's kinda hard to be specific...

…about who’s yelling racist shit at you when there are 40,000 people in the ballpark.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How hard is it to say

“yes I can give you an example. Yesterday I was standing out there and someone from behind called me the N-word.”

How hard is that?

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Instead, what Milton does

is say things like “America doesn’t believe in racism.”

I find that an EXTREMELY offensive statement.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because

America does believe in racism and this victim crap from a guy making $30/m a year and getting to play right field at Wrigley Field really really offends.

Our country has done a LOT to get by racism. It still exists, and most Americans still know it exists but want to continue to crush it.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoy following

you on twitter and hope you will give my points some thought.

GO CUBS

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this.

That’s what bothered me about Milty’s comments as well.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Aug 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe he was using hyperbole to express his point.

From a PR perspective, I think many of Milton’s remarks are highly ill-advised but he’s honest to a fault.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

That’s possible.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Aug 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody around here

ever uses hyperbole to make a point, right? :-)

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

same bullshit

from LaTroy, Jacque, Corey, and Dusty too? And then Torii Hunter mentions it as a reason not to sign with the Cubs.

Yep, I’m sure these guys just make shit up.

by socalbob on Aug 28, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying

there aren’t occasionally idiots out there who say stupid stuff. Racism is alive and will in America. I think it’s just as likely, if not more likely, that Milton is vaguely throwing it out there because, for him, everything is always someone else’s fault. The way he worded his comments does not reflect well on him, nor does his extensive history of anger and blame.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

re:

The way he worded his comments does not reflect well on him, nor does his extensive history of anger and blame.

Changing the argument mid-stream here.

You wrote his answers have been sarcastic and vague like people who make stuff up? No?

Because I reply and show proof that this line is wrong we now get into semantics — how he worded his comments. I cited multiple examples which show the position that the taunts and blurbs from the fans to these palyers is REAL. Who gives a rats ass about how he worded his reply? His words taken into context say “it’s the same old bullcrap going on by fans.” This is not a MB problem, but a fan problem.

by socalbob on Aug 28, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You seem to also be more

interested in vindicating Milton then the truth if you think it is completely irrelevant that a Sox fan apparently yelled this right during the middle of all this controversy.

It’s very relevant.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, not saying it's definitive.

The only thing I’m interested in here is the truth. The question is: Do fans yell racist remarks at players during games? Here’s an anecdote that says they do.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, what this comment

says is that a Sox fan will go to Wrigley Field and try to incite Bradley while making Cub fans look bad, and you will go along with it and repeat it.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you don't think any Sox fans...

…could have done this before Milton raised the issue? Or any hateful Cubs fans? Or Manatee fans?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possible, but

unlikely given the way Bradley has worded his accusations. I completely agree with what Al just posted in his preview. I hope you will give that some thought before you continue to perpetuate the meme that Cub fans are somehow responsible for Milton’s situation.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, that's not my intention.

And I agree that much of what Milton’s said in the press and certain things he does on the field (the hand gestures) only worsen his situation. I just urge people not to cavalierly dismiss the idea that he’s had racist comments directed his way.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough, I'm all for

eliminating racism. But Bradley makes a very, very poor spokesman for the cause.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

again

what does Bradley do to deserve racist comments from being directed to him?

Bad play? Under-performing his contract? Really, these are rationale reasons for people dropping N-Bombs on him? Serious?

His weird behavior, at times, does not warrant racist remarks. Sorry.

by socalbob on Aug 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

headdesk

seriously? You’re going to try to parse this THAT much?

Give me a break.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How should a Cubs deal with it?

Start a fight?
Report him to security?
Chop his head off and stick it on a pike, a warning to allow how enter this hollow ground?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't it obvious

that if you are in the bleachers and someone makes a remark like that, that they should be reported to security?

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would agree

OBVIOUSLY, OBVIOUSLY these individuals should be dealt with

Kind of makes think that maybe a stronger reaction would be his desired result.

Like if someone throws a beer on the field, an entire section should be ejected. That way the person who threw beer could have “PEER PRESSURE” applied to ensure that he doesn’t do it again.

Again nothing in there is a direct threat of violence, but the understanding is that maybe violence is ok in this matter.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's me and I was there.

Section 206 Row #3. Second inning 4 guys in their early 20’s rolled in and sat two rows behind us. The section was mostly empty. Them in row 5, us in row three, rows 2 and 1 were vacant. The 106 Section usher is just in front of us, 10 feet from them.

Three guys were wearing Cubs-ish gear. two of the three had on the “if they lose, we still booze” T’s I can’t really call Cub stuff. The loudest and 4th brashley announced to the others they must suck if they let him, a White Sox fan, find them their seats.

They then proceeded to verbally crap on everyone in the area. The guy to our right in a Michigan jacket is a fag because he wasn’t a ND fan. To Soriano in the field, he needed to hit another wall because he sucks too much to play. To young women walking by, they had special seating arranged for them, To Kevin Gregg he sucked worse than LaTroy Hawkins because he wasn’t supposed to be a closer, etc.

Bradley’s first at bat, they were quiet until he made the out, then he was a horrible f’er who needed to leave town.

Second AB, they were abusive immediately when he strolled to the plate.

During the third AB, The one who had claimed to be a Sox fan yelled that Bradley “deserved to be beaten like Rodney King” for sucking like this.

Did I report this to security. No. The staff seemed fully aware. The usher was 10 feet away and looked at them with every utterance and word Security walked by constantly looking up at them.

Do I usually pay this close attention to a few drunks nearby? No, but I took my 5 year old daughter to her first game.

You could argue none of the comments individually were racist. I’m looking at the perspective if I was an African American man with big contract and believed I was underperforming and hearing abuse like this night in and night out. I would certainly believe there were racial undertones.

That the guy claimed to be a Sox fan is irrelevant to whether Bradley hears these things. It’s just ironic that it’s the reputation of Cubs fans and Bradley’s experiences as a Cub being discussed.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, but am trying to provide some leeway as Bradley

supposedly likened the Tuesday night loss to being beaten like Rodney King.

With the verbal abuse I witnessed Bradley taking before, during, and after his at bats, it’s reasonable to believe another drunken “moran” used racist language.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you 100%

some on here are claiming that this is made-up stuff. It happens and your story drives home the point—some asked for details and you did a great job providing that.

We are on the same page here.

by socalbob on Aug 28, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You must've found this thread very interesting when you logged on!

I hope I didn’t act out of turn by posting your tweet – if I did, I apologize. It’s just been (perhaps surprisingly) rare to read any first-hand accounts of such behavior directed at Milton. And I thought your anecdote provided some at least interesting context for this ongoing and very controversial debate.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta admit, the guys were a-holes and started dropping

f-bombs immediately I lost count at 50 in something like 10 minutes.

I was watching the usher and security and their reactions from the beginning and as they were watching them, I didn’t feel the need to speak up. In the end, I was surprised the only staff who kept approaching them were the beer vendors.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly, that's business as usual at just about any sports venue.

And having your daughter there must’ve made it all the worse. I can relate.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

in Austin, TX

sure it is minor league, but you get asked to leave after one warning for language (seen it at Ice Bats – CHL, Round Rock Express – AAA, San Antonio Rampage – AHL, Austin Wranglers – Arena Football, and I am sure it will be the same for the Texas Stars – AHL)

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 28, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for sharing this. Reprehensible stuff, they should've been ejected.

Just one clarifying point – presumably, neither Soriano nor MB was in a position to hear the abuse these guys were shouting, right? 206 seems like it would be too far for Soriano, and obviously for MB whether he was at the plate or in the field.

Not saying that excuses anything, especially as you say, because your daughter was there. Just wanted to clarify this is a story of “fans” being obnoxious, not of “fans” being obnoxious and it reached the players ears.

by Orval Overall on Aug 28, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the anemic attendance yesterday and booming voice of this guy,

I fully expect he could be heard on the field. Gregg clearly heard this guy when warming up in the ’pen.

I also expect players on the field can hear more than you think. Just because most players are conditioned not to acknowledge abusive fans and may look like they don’t hear it, doesn’t mean they can’t hear it.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is so

disturbing. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 28, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I am the same guy

and you repeating it tends to give it credibility. Maybe it is credible, but it certainly doesn’t in any way vindicate Bradley or support his claims of racism.

It was admittedly a WHITE SOX FAN who supposedly said it. It also matters a lot to me whether it was reported to security and the “fan” was ejected.

You repeating this stuff supports this ongoing “blame the racist fans” meme that is out there which is completely false as far as I am aware. I’m not saying there isn’t an occasional idiot, but Milton’s problems with the fans are undoubtedly all about Milton, not some sort of reflection on Cub fans.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The anecdote that the guy who said this claims White Sox allegiances

is irrelevant. He didn’t seem like much of a baseball fan.

A large, drunk, beligerent, white guy at Wrigley taunted, swore, threatned and boo’d MB from when he left the on-deck circle to when he entered the dugout. Whether his actions were because he dislikes Bradley the man or the color of his skin, his comments had racial undertones and MB has every right to be concerned.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 28, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who the man roots for is not important

I agree 100%. Being a class act is not about team loyalty. There are ways to heckle without being a jerk, racist, etc

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 28, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

jesus christ

this paulucla person is dense

by CalCalender on Aug 28, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and then some

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 28, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Better be careful..

Apparently, here, if you question the existence of racism toward Bradley, you are, yourself, a racist.

by ScottT on Aug 28, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ridiculous.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...ridiculous

I guess since that thread got deleted, all the rampant accusations never happened, either. My bad.

by ScottT on Aug 28, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's NOT

why the thread was deleted.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never said it was

that’s a different issue from people in that thread accusing other posters of being racist. Not just BLou, either.

by ScottT on Aug 28, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Idiotic statements in World History

“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”

“We’ll be greeted with flowers in Iraq.”

“We weren’t such an awesome team that we could absorb the loss of Mark DeRosa without missing a beat.”

Not Greg Maddux. Not Barry Bonds. Not Manny Ramirez. Not even Aramis Ramirez. But Mark F. DeRosa.

If you were doing a “which one of these names doesn’t belong with the others” game, which one of these names would you eliminate?

You are an absolute clown.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see what you did here...

You took a political shot in here…. I would flag this but I believe in free speech. So my response..

Most of Cubs fans are idiots. Seriously if you love a team that has never won you are dumb. at the same time I love them. I am dumb. I hope we lose every game from here on out. For draft position. THe season is over. Get aramis shoulder surgery. Get soriano taken care of. See if we can get anything for Harden. If not offer him arb.

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

by fischisgod on Aug 28, 2009 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

insert anything Ted Kennedy said

about not killing Mary… Chappaquiddick incident for the loss.

I hope health care goes is named after Kennedy.. It will die a slow and painful death and bring down a president as well…

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

by fischisgod on Aug 28, 2009 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're being

much more political than I ever was. Please stop it.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what did

“well be greeted with flowers in iraq” mean?

moron

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

by fischisgod on Aug 28, 2009 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That isn't exactly political

and you’re on here ranting and raving about Ted Kennedy. Enough.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lesson --- NOT LEARNED!

Al, what exactly do you need this guy to do?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taken care of.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 28, 2009 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

by fischisgod on Aug 28, 2009 2:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slight correction

Mark Thomas DeRosa

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Aug 28, 2009 5:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, Worf, you deserved it

because you were jumping the gun.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not slurping your Kool-Aid

makes one a clown, I guess.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No,

being a clown makes you a clown.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Get the fuck over yourself

You rant all season about how the rest of us aren’t good fans because we question an obviously flawed team and worry about losses in May and June and then when it is perfectly clear that we were RIGHT about the team, you go off on some unhinged tirade about how fans today are just no good.

Then when someone calls you out on it, you resort to name-calling.

News flash. Cubs fans aren’t special and neither are you.

Come down off Mt. Olympus. Your lightning bolts are out of juice.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There wasn't anything "obvious" about it

I think you’d rather be “right” than have the Cubs win.

Get over yourself, Worf. Yesterday.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you'd rather blame every fan who doesn't kowtow to your views

You’d be happier following some semi-pro league where the standings don’t matter

I sure as hell know most of us would be happier if you were there.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Worf = NBF?

so are you saying you are *N*ot a *B*ig *F*an of NBF?

by socalbob on Aug 28, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not blaming fans

Reading comprehension is a virtue.

And I didn’t know you spoke for all of BCB. Maybe you should look in the mirror. Personally, I know I’d be a lot happier if your computer malfunctioned permanently.

If you’re going to judge the totality of a season by May or June, you show your ass nine times out of 10.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I consider the sources

and coming from you and him, considering how reviled you both are, that’s a badge of honor.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just find it hilarious that in a post where you say reading comprehension is a virtue

you misread what he said. Or more likely, intentionally mislead.

Whether I’m reviled or not, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you string two straight posts together without calling someone a name. It’d be hilarious, if you weren’t an adult (I assume you are one, whether or not you ever behave like it)

Hell, you couldn’t even resist calling people names in the headline of your fanpost.

by Illicat on Aug 28, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah once again

If you don’t believe the way I believe or think like I think then you are wrong, wrong, wrong and should have no voice. Where did I hear such stuff before? Think hard you’ll come up with. Sometime in the 20th Century.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Godwin's Law strikes again

The BCB Nazometer just dipped into the red zone.

by CaliCub on Aug 29, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, he, and others were correct

just because they saw it before you did (and I can’t tell if even now you’ll admit this isn’t a good team) doesn’t mean we were jumping the gun. If we had been proved wrong, we would have been jumping the gun.

But just go back to calling anyone who disagrees with you names, and feeling as if you somehow put them in their place.

by Illicat on Aug 28, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How can you argue

with idiotic, pretzel logic?

Nice work, IC. Up to your usual, pathetic standard.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BELIEVE THE WAY I DO OR YOU ARE WRONG

So say God of BCB!

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good God

can you be any more of a moron? I don’t think so, but I’m sure you’ll try to prove me wrong.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Insult anyone who doesn't think like your Lord God

For only I shall be able to speak to anything and if you speak you must believe as I do or else you are to stupid to be a fan.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You did it!

You outdid yourself, gaclaudy! Congratulations! You should celebrate — go rent a porno or something.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could make a witty comment involving a family members of yours...

but that would do no good. I believe you are windbag and you believe I’m a moron. This serves nothing to either of our opinions. I wish you well and we will part with difference of opinion.

Have a good weekend NBF.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You as well

Here’s hoping for a couple of victories this weekend. We can agree on that, no?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was

“moran” – at least that’s what it says in the photo of the Cardinal fan holding a sign.

Or…wait…maybe moran like in my neighbor: Bob Moran…

Nevermind.

by The E-Man on Aug 30, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NBF Play No. 2 - Misrepresent the opponent's argument.

You are so predictable…. When your attempt to change the parameters of the argument (aka NBF Play No. 1) doesn’t work, it’s time to use strawmen to misrepresent what other posters are saying.

I obviously never equated DeRosa to Maddux or Bonds or Aramis or Manny. Nor, for the record, did I ever claim that trading Mark DeRosa cost the team the division. That would be silly. As you know, I am talking about the Cubs’ decision to “willingly deal away their depth” prior to this year.

You believed that the 2009 Cubs were strong enough to weather such a decision. In fact, you have repeatedly claimed that the DeRosa trade would have no negative effect on the 2009 Cubs. I disagreed rather vehemently. I was correct.

The 2009 Cubs, as constructed, could have contended under optimal circumstances. But they were paper thin — by their own choosing — and any injuries (or utter collapses) from starting position players were going to hurt the team immensely. Weakening the offense was a silly thing to do, and you are silly for spending so many hundreds of posts defending the decision.

I now await NBF Play No. 3 – The Over-The-Top Ad Hominem Attack. This is usually the part where you call me “Ted Bundy” or a “pscyhopath” some such.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you're ticked off because

DeRosa didn’t send you a thank-you card for the flowers you sent him on his birthday. But one guy, particularly that type of guy, doesn’t make or break a team.

Put it this way: If the Cubs couldn’t endure the loss of DeRosa, then I guess they weren’t that good in the first place.

And you most certainly did say getting rid of him basically put the kibosh on their season.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hilarious

“Put it this way: If the Cubs couldn’t endure the loss of DeRosa, then I guess they weren’t that good in the first place.”

Well, they are nine games out of first, and just two games over .500 so no, they aren’t that good

by Illicat on Aug 28, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh,

and there was every reason to believe these players would return to their norms. Every reason. But they haven’t. Know why?

It’s called baseball. Not baking bread.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hope springs enternal..

but not every player is going back to their career norms

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

well said

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 28, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fans complaining about other fans

god this is freaking awesome.

COOL BEANS!

by lexmarklover on Aug 28, 2009 12:38 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

its all some people have in their lives

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 28, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1!

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1!

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

serious question

what happens if a player hates it so much that they would rather not play here????

Wht happens if we boo Bradley so much that he says I would rathe walk away then play here…

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

by fischisgod on Aug 28, 2009 2:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Approximately 1/2 of the fan base would throw an impromptu street party

And there’d be some very sad sports journalists in the City of Chicago. “There goes my backup story every week.”

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Aug 28, 2009 5:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

we lose a good right-fielder who has played pretty well for the Cubs in the second half, for one thing.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it really fair...

…to say the Cubs haven’t won a World Series in 101-years? Don’t we have to write off the seventies and much of the eighties when they were actively trying to be the doormats of the National League? We can get almost fifteen years back right there!

Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.

by LeSaboteur on Aug 28, 2009 3:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget the period from 1947-66...

… when they never finished above .500 and lost 100+ games twice.

So there’s 20 more years back!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 28, 2009 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hear, Hear, Al.

So we have 35-years to play with now! That’s fantastic. Not winning a WS in 66 years should be far more palatable to the fanbase!

Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.

by LeSaboteur on Aug 28, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Write-off?

This isn’t your tax return.

THEY HAVE NOT WON THE WORLD SERIES SINCE 1908, PERIOD. No in-between, no middle-ground.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name one guy

who was on the 1908 team who is on the team now.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one...

But there was no one on the 2003 Red Sox, the 2004 White Sox who played in 1918 either.

Nothing being brought up here is unique to Cubdom.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trick question - Jamie Moyer is the only 1908 Cub still active in MLB

and he’s not on the Cubs anymore.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

can he play

second base?

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What the hell does that have to do

with not winning for over a century?

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

just that

it’s not even close to being one team that hasn’t won for a century. You can’t just look at the laundry.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

come on, yes and no

its not just laundry to any of us. I agree none of us has ever waited 100+ years for anything, because we haven’t been alive that long. But the thing about a drought that long is it guarantees not a single living Cubs fan — no matter how old — has ever known what it feels like to have their team win the WS. We don’t even have our grandparents memories to live off of. Its a lifetime drought for all of us, no matter how long that lifespan is, and you can’t deny thats kind of depressing.

… but this still could be the year….

by Orval Overall on Aug 29, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are you talking about?

You sound like an accountant who’s cooked the books and now’s trying to explain it.

They haven’t won a World Series since 1908, period!

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 29, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not the same team

period! Come on.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 29, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whether you spend $136 million on a .500 team or...

…you finish last in the NL. If you don’t win the World Series, it just proves your approach was wrong.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 28, 2009 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Several things here

1) It is true that no one fan has endured the entire 101 years personally.

But considering that every jackass with a camera or a notebook, not to mention opposing fans, make fun of it all the time, I’d say it’s not entirely out of sight either.

2) I will need to see definitive proof this isn’t the same way in other cities. You dismiss it with not much else than an “It isn’t.” Well, OK then, YOU SAY it isn’t, so it isn’t. C’mon, do better.

I think it HAS gotten worse in baseball because of the Internet and shortened attention spans. I think the quote sums it up:

“His idea of a great game is one where the (insert team here) scores 10 runs in the first inning and slowly pulls away”

That was once ascribed to Edward Bennett Wiliams, former Orioles owner, in the “glory days” of the 70s, when baseball was PURE and fans were GOOD and the Cubs SUCKED,

It’s only gotten worse. Call it the football mentality, where a two-game losing streak is cause for alarm. But I’ve seen nothing that would tell me it’s worse in Chicago.

3) I’m a Bradley defender. I want him back next year, but I really wish the next time he cries racism, he gives specific examples.

Look, I have no doubt someone has said something racist. I also would guess that those comments have a way of rising above the din and becoming more magnified.

But Bradley’s history — and for that matter, Baker’s and Hawkins’ — MUST be considered. The fable of crying wolf applies here.

I personally do not trust anything Hawkins said or ever says.

4) Having said all that, there IS cause for alarm. I bring your attention to this piece from the Sun-Times today. They had a reporter sit in the bleachers.

Bradley was up with two outs in the ninth, the tying run on second and a chance to be a hero.

But he grounded out to end the game — and got showered with boos.

And it wasn’t because Bradley was the last out.

‘’He could have hit a homer to win it,’’ Zaleski said. ’’I’d still boo his ass.’’

The person in question is Kenny Zaleski. He is stupid enough to give his name to a reporter.

I have no idea if Zaleski is single, but I would encourage women in the Chicago area not to change that status if he is. Think of the gene pool.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 6:50 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

You may be wrong on #1!

About a week ago I heard Pat and Ron wishing happy birthday to someone that was older than 101. Can’t remember if they were 108 or 109 now, but it was amazing. I supppose they may have been too young at the time or became a fan later in life, but it is possible that they endured the 101 personally.

"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Aug 28, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wondered if that would get me in trouble...

Fine—- MOST fans weren’t around for 101 years.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please don't take it as "trouble"! I wasn't trying to give you a hard time.

It was a logical statement to make. I just wanted to share that story because I found it so amazing that someone lived that long. Especially as a Cub fan-at least I don’t think my heart can take too much more and I’m only in my….well let’s just say I’m 39.

"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Aug 28, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As much as you get vilified around here....

…… it isn’t all deserved. This post is spot on.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Aug 28, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My experience isn't even remotely dispositive I realize...

And it’s only my experience, but I tend to think that Chicago is unique in the level of insanity and expectation; at least based off of where I’ve lived in. (Portland + Seattle; the Bay Area, New York, and DC).

So I guess at least on what I’ve seen, I’m convinced that Chicago fans are a unique breed (and one that isn’t currently helping the situation).

by CubsWin!Oregon on Aug 28, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I lived in Boston

them people be NUTS!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Yankees fans were booing Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera a couple of years ago

when they got off to bad starts. Bad fan behavior is everywhere. It isn’t exclusive to Chicago

by Illicat on Aug 28, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to ESPN Chicago

Security threw fans out for saying “Bradley sucks”

http://espn.go.com/chicago/columns/blog?post=4427837&name=friedell

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 7:15 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

After reading that article

I have to wonder that if Bradley would simply acknowledge the fans once in a while (in a positive manner) it might make his life in the outfield a bit easier.

by madmf on Aug 28, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously.

He doesn’t have to be Sammy about it, but if he’d made any effort whatsoever to engage the RF fans positively, for the first couple of weeks, there may have been some goodwill in the tank and the yahoos heckling him now may have been shouted down.

Of course, when he tried to throw the fans a bone, he threw that ball in the seats. So that didn’t work out, either.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

He brings most of his problems upon himself.

Greenie and Golic used to have a segment on Mike & MIKE on ESPN Tuesday mornings; it was called, “JUST SHUT UP”. Milton Bradley would be a weekly finalist on that contest should it be held the last few months.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think this guy needs to feel like he's the victim of injustice

in order to succeed.

In the Sun-Times article and the ESPN Chicago article, quite a few fans greeted Bradley with cheers and “We love you, Milton!”

0-5.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

5-13 for the series.

with something like 5 RBIs.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but on the day some fans go out of their way to give him love

0-5

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I expect

some fans went out of their way to give him love every day. It just happened to be reported yesterday.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah I see

his 0-5 game had tons to do with fan support. Sure.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Aug 28, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This article

very well describes my usual experience in the bleachers. Throwing fans out for saying “you suck!” That’s outrageous. Milton does suck. $30/m to play right field at Wrigley Field for three years and he acts like life couldn’t be any worse. Get a clue, Milton.

by paulucla on Aug 28, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you do understand

that money isn’t everything. A person deserves to be happy in their job, and not be verbally abused. Even baseball players.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is about the money

And while players should be happy, when they continually be their own lightning rod for controversy, they get a lot of negative attention.

NOW, this does NOT mean he should be racially insulted. However he’s opening himself up to be yelled at more often.

Face it, fans see it and hear it, then they feed off it.

D-Lee was struggling bigtime early this season. Did he catch a lot of crap from the fans like Bradley? No. Why? Because he’s smart enough to keep his mouth shut and be a team player.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DLee also didnt get slack

cuz DeRosa, “our lord and savior” was not traded to keep DLee. Too many cannot accept DeRosa was moved, and use Bradley as their boxing bag for it.

Was DeRosa moved to allow Bradley to be signed, quite possibly. Was that Bradleys fault, NO. Hendry made the moves, and Bradley is getting the slaps for it.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 28, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you point out to me anyone who has seriously called DeRosa our savior?

He might have helped make the team better, but I don’t think one person has ever claimed we are in this mess ONLY because we got rid of DeRosa

by Illicat on Aug 28, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there were some people

who were very vested in thinking that he would have turned the season around for us. As if you could just pick up his performance (which at the time looked amazing, but really, hasn’t been all THAT great) and plunk it down in the middle of our lineup.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish these "man in the bleachers" articles would be written again in a month

When they spotlight isn’t on this stuff and the bleacher fans aren’t on their best behavior. Going the day after the controversy really doesn’t accomplish anything.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 28, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean more like Yankees, Philly or BoSox fans?

Yes. Lunatic’s? No….Lunatic is a very subjective word. Like my favorite movie cop Dirty Harry said, “opinions are like assholes, everybody has one”.

Like it or not, this team’s fan base changed forever in the 24+ hours between the evenings of 14-Oct-2003 and 15-Oct-2003. The expectation now is the highest it’s ever been and the highest it will ever be.

Prior to those 2 days, it was like, “we hope we win but if not it’s just nice to go to Wrigley”

After those 2 days, it is now like, " !@#$%^&*()! why can’t this team do better?!??!?"

Everything now is magnified, just like the analogy of the fishbowl that is New York City. Everything said is analyzed and argued, every move on and off the field is analyzed and argued.

I mean just look at this blog. There’s people arguing 1,000 shades of gray about booing. Are you kidding me?! It’s simply a microcosm of frustration. It’s not lunatic behaviour, it’s highest expectations.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 7:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Didn't you read?

Those fans aren’t the same.

They just AREN’T!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Different people

or different ways the same people behave? I tend to believe its the latter more than the former.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been to games in all those places

over the years, and I haven’t heard the invective I’ve heard at Wrigley.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you ever been to a Flyers game?

It’s there too. It’s in any city. You may have been lucky enough not to witness it.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never been to a Flyers game

but I doubt you’ll find it at a Pirates game or a Mariners game or …

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not exactly what I would call

a passionate fan base.

How ‘bout a team who’s fans actually show up; if they actually have fans.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no fan base

and no sports team in MLB like the Cubs. They truly are unique.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go to an Eagles or Philies game wearing a Cubs/Bears outfit

We are down right gentile

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what?

I’m hoping that was a joke that didn’t land. But not sure what the hell you’re doing.

by Illicat on Aug 28, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got the joke

I misspelled genteel, Gentile is clan of Christians

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's unique?

BoSox, Yankees, Phillies are just a psychotic (if not more) than the Cubs fan base.

While I will argue there are more fans of the Cubs than any other MLB team outside their geographic area, the fans of the 3 teams I mentioned above are very involved too.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 29, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I read, did you?

Mid Oct, 2003….when it all CHANGED.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 7:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sarcasm -- I haz it

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually no, it's not

I honestly believe that the way 2003 ended is the point of change in the fan base. No longer are Cubs fans satisfied if the team just does OK. It’s division titles at an absolute minimum. The intensity grows from there.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this...

… having lived through all the playoff appearances and the various failures. 2003 was different, it raised the ante.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 28, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

add to that

our cursed brothers the Red Sox winning followed by the…ultimate kick in the butt of the team that shall not be named winning….followed by disappointments in 07 and 08. Yep, it’s changed. We need a title and we need it NOW.

"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Aug 28, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is a lot of truth there

Add in the White Sox — whose drought was just about as long as Boston’s, although without the pain of the near-misses.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the Cards winning in 2006 didn't help, either.

And then Boston AGAIN in 2007. And then Philly, of all cities, getting a title in 2008.

It’s been 5 straight years of being upset in October for Cubs fans.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would you rather have seen

KC, PGH & Bal instead of: BoSox, StL & Phi?

To me those cellar-dwellers would be far more egregious than Bos, StL and Phi.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We did that already

The year before 1984 — Orioles won it all. Year after — Royals.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

However

The O’s weren’t nearly as bad on a yearly basis then as they are now.

The last 15-20 years the Royals have been a perennial celler-dweller.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think being a Baltimore fan would suck a lot too

Because they have been to the mountaintop. They won pennants in the 60s, 70s, and 80s and were a pretty good team in the mid-90s.

They are kind of the reverse of us. We’re a historically bad team that is being exposed to what it’s like to be a power.

They are a historically powerful team that has been just hideous recently.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I probably wouldn't have noticed or cared as much, honestly.

I was happy to see Boston win. First, because they were considered the “other side of the coin” – the AL version of the long-suffering Cubs. And now that they won, who knows what could happen?

However, the primary reason I was happy to see Boston win was that it became a wake-up siren for the Cubs organization – this is how you win in MLB! Strike zone control matters! Winning teams pay attention to SABR stats, rather than simply drafting and starting the guys who look best in their uniforms.

When the ChiSox won, I was happy for my southside friends, and I was happy to see those (expletive deleteds) on the Astros lose, because (expletive deleted) them, that’s why. But honestly, I was kind of sad that the Cubs were now all alone as baseball’s long-time losers.

Then the Cards won, while the Cubs spent the season losing every game they possibly could during the Dusty Baker Death March of 2006. Hendry’s weird refusal to fire Dusty was the first time I really questioned him.

Then Boston won again, and the Cubs decided that, rather than emulating the new-model BoSox, we were going to emulate the mid-decade Yankees, and just sign everyone we possibly could in a given year.

Unfortunately, our timing was off. 2 years earlier, and we’d have Beltran. 2 years later, and we’d have Teixiera. But we had to strike in the 06-07 offseason, so we have Soriano until he turns 40 or so.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgive the nit-pick...

But the White Sox drought was longer than the Red Sox.

I mention this b/c I hate the Red Sox and found it insufferable that they convinced so many people through their whining that they had it worse than anyone else…

Other than that, I agree with your comment. :)

by CubsWin!Oregon on Aug 28, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

1 year difference.

1917 vs 1918…IIRC

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just think about how 2003 could have been the Cubs year

The three teams with the longest droughts; Cubs, BoSox, ChiSox.

If the Cubs win in 2003, then Boston in 2004, ChiSox in 2005….all the [baseball] world is right. Karma is great, no more curses. But the Cubs blew their chance in 2003 and now we’re 6 seasons past that with the thought of having to possibly rebuild again.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Indians had a 3-1 lead over Boston in 2007

I guess the baseball gods got tired.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

big deal though, right?

The evil empire had a 3-0 lead over the BoSox a few years ago in the ALCS and were leading game 4 in the late innings. Then the biggest playoff baseball comeback of all time happened.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm following along with the idea of wiping out all the curses in a row

2003 – Cubs
2004 – Red Sox
2005 – White Sox
2006 – Well, OK, the gods took a year off
2007 – Indians

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would have gone for that too

and its another reason for curse-believers to hang their hat upon. 2003 was the Cubs year and some how, some way it just didn’t happen.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even God rested on the Seventh Day!

If you happen to believe in that sort of thing, that is

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I'd say throw the whole Bartman thing out....

Cubs blew GAME 1 of that series…..they should have swept the fish…..Had they taken care of business in Game 1…….the series would have never even been close.

The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."

by kcjones on Sep 2, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And is there a problem with wanting to win?

I understand the flow of a season, no I don’t 162-0. But I mean is it to much to ask to make the playoffs, every year? How many years in a row did ATL make it, 14, 15,16? What is wrong with wanting to make the playoffs every year?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anyone said there was a problem with wanting to win.

At least I didn’t take it that way. Only that it’s more intense. Personally I think the new sense of urgency is a good thing.

"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Aug 28, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And we're a whole lot less willing to put up with poor front office activity.

Can you imagine if BCB had been around in the early 90’s when we went out and got Candy Maldonado and Hibbard and Jose Guzman after letting Maddux walk?

I agree that this new sense of urgency is a good thing. The Cubs allowed way too much mediocrity and poorly-thought-out strategy from their front office for far too long.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HERE HERE!!!

I think we should expect the playoffs every year. The Cubs are a major market team, with a dedicated (and a little crazy) fan base, that pumps a ton of money into the team. If we wanted to cheer for the little guy, we’d route for the Twins or KC or even Tampa Bay. But I like that this is one of the “big boys” in ML and they swing a big stick. I just wish we had a better front office to use the stick better.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

There isn't

and Atl won 14 straight division titles, winning the WS once, 1995 against the Tribe.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

However....

… the Braves did get into the WS five times in that 14 years. And we’d take that, I think.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 28, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sure as hell would

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was agreeing with gaclaudy

There isn’t anything wrong with wanting to make the playoffs every year.

You bet I’d take 14 straight division titles. Though that would be an interesting test case: Cubs fans psychy before and after 14 straight division titles.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But even during that run

the Braves had trouble selling out playoff games. The passion didn’t appear to be there, save for the hard-core Braves fan.

You could argue (but it’s a silly argument) that the fans there didn’t deserve — or appreciate what they were fortunate enough to witness.

That, of course would be making a sweeping, unfounded generalization as regading that fan base.

Nobody wants to do that, right?

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that's too much to ask
But I mean is it to much to ask to make the playoffs, every year?

The above is not a realistic expectation. But what we as fans can expect -

1. The GM to construct a roster that gives the ball club a good chance to succeed
2. The Manager to make sound in-game decisions, use the provided roster prudently, maximize the chances for players to succeed both individually and as a team, keep the team focussed and away from distractions
3. The team to play solid fundamental baseball giving their 100% and align themselves with the overall goal of the team and the franchise.
4. Ourselves (as fans) not to have imaginary/unreasonable expectations, to not unfairly hold the team accountable for our insane standards.

I think every single debate, argument, agreement/disagreement happens over the above 3 points. They provide us a framework to examine the performance of a team before, during and after the end of a season.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 28, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this sentiment.

I think that what upset me most about the Dusty Baker Era was the idea that the Cubs were taking actions that were counterproductive, and which hurt the team’s chances for winning.

Dusty would do things like bat Patterson & Neifi 1-2 every day, and when he’d be questioned for doing so, he’d become even more entrenched in his thinking. He’d run up pitch counts for young guys, and question the toughness of anyone who would dare to ask him if that was a prudent course of action. He’d double-switch every time he made a pitching change, even if it meant that the pitcher was coming up sooner. He made it clear that his teams would not take infield practice, and “hey, man, what can I do about it?”

With Lou, as I said before the 2007 and 2008 playoffs, our losses have been on the field. Lou has, by and large, been an excellent manager who has put his players in a position to succeed. When they have failed, it has been a physical failing, not a strategic failing. (I will grant that 2009 has seen its share of strategic errors. That is new, and disconcerting.)

The reason for my renewed frustration before the 2009 season comes from Hendry’s folly of an offseason. He made a series of moves which weakened the MLB club, and which, from my standpoint, were totally non-sensical. It was a strategic failure on a pretty epic scale. THAT is frustrating.

I can deal with on-field failure. Every game has a winner and a loser, and sometimes our boys aren’t going to make the plays to win the games. What I cannot tolerate is a failure in strategic thinking — be it in-game strategy, or front office strategy — from the organization.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So to want your team to make the playoffs every year is too much to ask?

Why should I cheer and pull for a team if not for them to make it to the playoffs, year in and year out.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it's not realistic

This isn’t the NBA, where you can make the playoffs with a .475 record. Only four teams from each league make it.

But I think playing meaningful games in August isn’t too much to ask.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok I would buy that

At least then we would still be in the hunt for the playoffs. A shot, a hope, a dream of making it.

I still want the Cubs in the playoffs ever year.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I mean is it to much to ask to make the playoffs, every year?

Yes. No team does that. Atlanta’s run is an aberration. Most teams don’t content year after year after year. You boom, you bust, you retool/rebuild, you boom you bust. It’s a cycle.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, we're retooling now?

Then Bradley should go.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And a few others:

Let make a laundry list of who needs to go, since this is a retooling year:

Sori (Salary Dump)
Fotenot (Not good)
Gregg (Can’t Close)

Please add to as you see fit.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You'd certainly have to send a ton of cash.

But if the Cubs were to send, say, $9M annually to the taker, wouldn’t that go a long way toward moving Fonzie? While saving the team $45M over the next 5 years?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe you've suggested this before...

…and it’s not a bad idea. But I also believe it’s not likely to occur in the real world – could Ricketts really get away with committing $9 million annually to a player who literally does not perform for the Cubs? Seriously asking.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 28, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rox managed to move Hampton under similar circumstances.

The $18M is going somewhere every year, regardless. I am sure that Mr. Ricketts, as a man who made hundreds of millions in finance, understands the concept of “sunk cost”.

The Cubs just need to determine whether they’d be better off paying $18M to Soriano to play LF, or $9M to an Adam Dunn type to play LF, and another $9M to the saps we pawned Sori off onto. :)

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Aug 28, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if we're retooling.

Season isn’t over yet.

Either way, I don’t think Bradley should go.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That much is clear!

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't want you

to be unsure of anything.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2010

Cubs wins World Seris on the back of Milton Bradley

So we can expect to see this headline in the newspaper?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who knows?

it’s certainly possible.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

SSSSSSShaw

and maybe monkeys will fly out my butt

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can't predict

baseball. It defies prediction.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weren't you the one...

that is always talking about Career Averages, and norms and that you can predict a player by them, which in turns would lead to predicting how a team will do.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's a difference between saying

that a player will likely regress to the mean and suggesting that there’s no way the Cubs will win the world series in 2010 with Milton Bradley.

A big difference.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't with MB

I said because of MB we win the series.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's certainly possible

right now, he’s the hottest hitter on the team.

"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 29, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sort of like...

…being the tallest midget!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 1, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I'm saying you're right about Cubs fans

But I don’t think that’s any different than any other major market, contending team.

I will listen to cases that state such attitudes are WRONG, but I will not listen to cases that state they are UNIQUE.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The biggest thing about Cubbie uniqueness

is the 101 years.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BULLESYE

you got it

and i made a post about this when i first joined the site

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2007/9/4/94719/85002

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 29, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if all the angst and bickering above doesn’t speak to the point that NBF was trying to make?

Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville

by leothelip on Aug 28, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lot's of factors here...

…but I think the big one is the fact the Cubs had chosen the short term plan to trying to win a championship (spend a lot of money). If it works, everyone goes home happy, but in most occurances it doesn’t work and you end up having the window close and you are left with a clean up process. Add in a few injuries, poor performances and things can go from looking real good, real bad pretty fast.

Some bad decisions have been made, and the lack of organizational strength in other areas have made the club vulnerable and that is what you are left with.

All I want if for Ricketts to recognize the core of the organization needs a lot of help, and be very aggressive in getting that side in order. If that happens, I believe the club will be built on a stronger foundation and they won’t be so vulnerable in those years where things don’t go your way.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 28, 2009 8:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There are two descriptions of Cubs fans that have made this blog

Either we are beer-guzzling party animals in the bleachers who don’t even know a game is going on or we are savages who are so hell-bent on getting a championship, there is hell to pay for not achieving it.

Both are stereotypes. Any attempt to paint this fan base with a single brush, is not only absurd, it is wrong.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 9:21 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

and the tourist who just want to see another landmark

although that’s the reason i keep going to games in September most years

by doofus cubs guy on Aug 28, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah for the days when...

Fans of today are a represtative of the populace, live with it. Some fans may be racist, some might be drunken party animal, and some might die hard win at all cost Type A people. It is what makes up the city of Chicago. Good, bad or indifference it is who we are and it make no difference, we all have the same thing in common, A DESIRE TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES!

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't fit either of

those discriptions.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 28, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are worse

We are Hawk fans! From Iowa!

"I still don't know what happened"- Fergie Jenkins on '69

by tommy veryzer on Aug 28, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that there's

anything wrong with that. :-)

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Aug 29, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd also blame rising ticket prices

And not for the class resentment because of player salaries — though I’m sure that’s a part.

When ticket prices were reasonable, the “experience” of a game — win or lose — was enough. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but you have a good time, right?

Well, with the cost of tickets going up, you’re talking about something many families can only do once a year. When that once a year is a 12-5 loss to the Nationals that actually wasn’t that close, well, you’re going to have unpleasant.

It would be like saving up for a trip to Disney World and getting food poisoning. Or saving up for a Broadway show and seeing the actors blow their lines.

Not all fans feel that way, I’m sure. There are some people who are Broadway fanatics, and know that bad shows are part of the deal. Season ticket holders know you’re going to get clunkers. I’m sure people that make it to Disney every year have good and bad years.

But for a lot of people — this is a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It’s hard when that experience sucks.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"But I mean is it to much to ask to make the playoffs, every year?"

Great example and baseball or any other sport that is earning dollars on the basis of entertaining the fans is no different.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 28, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No not too much to ask

but it is hard to produce. However, I believe its the teams responsibility to put the best team possible on the field every year. It hasn’t happened at Clark & Addison for 2009 though.

That’s where other teams like KC and Pgh come into play. I mean, what do their fans really have to look forward to come the 1st week of April???? Nothing!

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that is reflected in their attendance

If an amusement park, theater or concert hall consistently showed bad performances, it would be empty too.

Even though KC and Pittsburgh probably get their share of visiting fans just wanting to see their team come through.

Alll big cities have a good chunk of people who come from somewhere else and aren’t home-grown fans.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

which reminds me...

I was one of those fans that the original poster talked of that had a crapfit when Lou rested the regulars in that game Lincecum pitched because that was one of the only two games that I could afford tickets to this year. Shhh-don’t tell the kiddies that you can take families. We chose to do two games alone over going to only one with them-j/k-sort of. They really didn’t seem to mind. They aren’t into it as much as we are.

"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Aug 28, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But do you boo an actor when he flubs a line

or mickey mouse when he falls over at Disney?

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 28, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it is...

who wants to be right?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would this a better fan base if the fans

stayed home and ignored the team when it isn’t doing well? This would describe the Cubs fan base pre-1984. Even then, we were accused of only coming to the park to boo because we were unemployed — just ask Lee Elia. (I guess you could also say there is a historical pattern of fan frustration here, followed by the expected absurd reply from members of a team when it all goes south.)

South Side side fans stay home when the White Sox are not doing well. Add Milwaukee, Kansas City, Houston, Oakland, San Diego, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Florida to that list. The team is ignored.

Which is better? Overly passionate or dispassionate fans?

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 9:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You bring up a great point

I’d ask Al, or NBF, or others who have been going to games for a long time.

When exactly where the “Glory Days”? Because Lee Elia had issues prior to 1984, let alone 2003.

As for your other question, I think it’s a great one. Would anyone connected to the team really want us to treat them like the Marlins fans treat their team?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only 'glory days' pre-1984

…would be 67-71….obviously, that team never won anything, but left behind a few HOF’ers we all know about. There were a few winning seasons in the 70s, but never back-to-back

As I have said before, I went to games as a kid with less than 9-K in the park and thought that was the norm.

I prefer the modern-day era, even with all the assorted side-shows.

By the way, the Cubs have a winning record…from Wiki Answers;

As of April 27,2009 the Chicago Cubs all time win/loss record is 10091-9531

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, I mean "Glory Days"

as far as courteous and fun fans.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not in Lee Elia's book

That’s my point.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never saw the book...sounds interesting

On that infamous day in 1983, I doubt if there were more than 12-thousand people in the park. The team was still not out out of it’s late-70’s early 80s slumber.

1982 was a miserable year. Now, the Dallas Green era was starting. The ball park was still empty. Just a few people behind the Cubs dugout got on Elia’s case, and he blew it all out of proportion, IMO.

Returning to Yesteryear

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, 48-hundred on Opening Day

at Wrigley that year.

I’ll take today, with the higher expectations, and the problems that go along with it. That’ s better than the belief that on Opening Day — there’s no chance to win at all.

Nothing loveable about losing 90 games a year.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right... which is 20 years prior to the BIG CHANGE

My point is that we can mourn the “Courteous Fan” all we want, but we have some evidence that Cubs fans have ALWAYS been rowdy and belligerent.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't society change 20 years ago?

Isn’t the fanbase of the Cubs a slice of the populace of Chicago?

How the fans of Cubs act today show an example of how the people of Chicago act?

Isn’t the Cubs, for lack of better words, just an exenstion of who we are as a group of people from Chicago, or Illinois, or wherever you may be.

We, a group of people with a similiar desire, have grouped together in support of that desire. Inside this group you will find a close similiarity as to what you would find in society.

My two cents.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Aug 28, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

SDSJM, like he usually does, nails it

I grew up in the ’70s and remember a lot of bad Cubs teams. And a lot of small crowds.

Not long ago I was looking at some old home movies. One of them was taken at a Cubs game in, I’d guess, abut 1975. They were playing the Expos. It was a Sunday, because my dad was there, and he probably couldn’t have gone any other day b/c of work. And it was a beautiful day.

There MIGHT have been 12,000 people there. I was struck immediately about how few people were in the ballpark. I can’t ever envision that happening today, under any circumstances.

I agree that fans being more demanding now is a good thing. I’m just wondering if the fans are perhaps too demanding.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

The team, ballpark and area as a whole were a dump those days

The transformation began with Harry, then Ryno, then the 1984 division. It took a few years to really get going and there were bad things like the loss of Maddog and the 1994 strike for instance that probably prevented it from cranking up more quickly.

But 2003 is when Cubdom changed forever.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What goes up...

…must come down, and if the Cubs put together string of non-competitve seasons, you would see games when there are only 25,000 people in the stands. The coolness would wear off, and it would take another playoff appearance to buy them another couple years of sellouts.

I know it was a different time, but the Blackhawks were one of the hottest tickets this town had ever seen for about 10-12 years. Season tickets were impossible to get and the demand was outrageous for many years. It only took a few years after Bobby Hull left (and the team became less competitive) for the stadium to begin to empty. All those people who would have killed for season’s tickets before, were no where to be found when they became available.

Even with today’s increased exposure to sports, you have to sprinkle in a good team every few years to maintain the demand, or it simply goes away.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 28, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even more recently

the ‘Hawks were crappy after the mid 90’s. 8/16/1996 began a string of events that helped drive the Blackhawks to a laughing stock that would not change until 9/26/2007.

During that 11-year span, the ‘Hawks went from a decent to solid team to the worst run major league team in all of N.America. In less than 2 years they’ve come nearly full circle and are the odd-on favourite to be the next major league sports franchise in Chicago to win it all.

If the Cubs go in the tank for 4-5 seasons at less than 1.5M attendance annually, things will change. However I find it difficult the the people “who just want to be there and be seen there” won’t be going away any time soon. At least not at that magnitude.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think its two things: (1) seeing the White Sox, Red Sox, and -- especially -- Marlins all win in recent years

has increased the “Why not us” factor. and (2) Coming so close lately — knocked on the door in 03, were the best team in the NL last year only to get swept for the second straight year.

Maybe these aren’t really related to the reactions, but I think the intensity with which people are disappointed by the once inevitable Cubs collapse has gone up dramatically as a result of these things.

by Orval Overall on Aug 28, 2009 9:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Was in 1977 or 78?

When the team started great and was in first place for a bit and then started losing in June? Is that where the “June Swoon” term Cardinal fans use comes from?

Prior to 2003, I think fans reaction to being in first place on Memorial Day was, “Wow, cool, wonder how they’ll blow it”

Now it’s, “Damn right we’re in first. Now let’s hold it”

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Aug 28, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe it was 77...

…that was the year both the Sox and Cubs were playing out of their ass and they were both in first place in July I believe.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 28, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Up to early August, actually.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 28, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both teams in 1st

Cubs finished right at .500…My dad blew a gasket almost daily after the end of July that year.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The crazy thing is that the '77 team was 25 games over .500 in late June

That team started off 47-22, leading the division by 8.5 games at one point. They finished at exactly .500, 20 games back. Here’s the schedule from that season.

I can’t really think of a collapse like that among more recent Cub teams. Maybe ‘99, when there was optimism after the previous season’s playoff appearance. The Cubs got to about 10 games over .500 early in early June, then contrived to finish the year with 95 losses. We watched some pretty ugly baseball after the all-star break that year. Dan Serafini and Andrew Lorraine…blech.

"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko

by LaddieRenfroe on Aug 28, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shorter term collapse

I think was almost as bad (just because it happened quick) was them losing 7 of 9 late in 2004 to blow the WC.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 28, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Particularly since many of those losses

came against the Mets and the Reds, who were just awful that year.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, just like Wsh and NYM

just this home stand. Though the situation was just a little bit different.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 1, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, they also

lost seven of nine against those guys, I think. Not .500, like this team.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 1, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The '77 Cubs beat the Reds 16-15 in extra innings

in late July. I think they were 20-something games over .500 at that point.

Then things fell off a cliff.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 28, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lunatics?

Well, that’s a bit over-the-top.

Clearly, even the newcomer fan feels the century-plus drought is inexcusable; but that’s not an excuse for making Wrigley a miserable place to come to every day for the players. I am all for letting a player know they’ve been underperforming, but booing the home team/player needs to be a scarcer activity than it has been lately. People are starting to boo indiscriminately these days.

Still, I see overcompensation the other way as well – some folks expect fans to expend infinite grace, or to simply have faith in situations where the reality is much harsher. That’s not a realistic attitude, either. The Cubs have gotten a lot more grace than rage over the years – and the result is that even some faithful fans have run out of patience.

I think Milton Bradley embodies that latter sentiment with a lot of fans, including me. Even though many of us have found the questionable signing to result in a very bad overall year, the infinite-grace/unwavering-faith crowd tries to shout down criticism, and expects everyone to just accept the plentiful harvest he’s going to bring us if we just stand behind him long enough – very much a microcasm of the overall organizational situation. Just wait till next year – that’s when our patience in the system/player will pay off.

There’s only so much room for the hyper-critic; but you an only take so much preaching from the bishops and deacons of Cub nation as well. It’s too much to ask to tell everyone to just accept that everyone is to blame and it was just a down year. In every other business, especially with this kind of payroll, down years would bring significant change.

Does anyone really think there’s going to be significant change? Then forgive some of us if we’re a little jaded.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 28, 2009 9:50 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I didn't think so until

I’ve seen the recent treatment of Bradley. The crowd is now just one ugly mob. I wouldn’t want to play for those type of fans either. And you wouldn’t get just chirping hand gestures from me either.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 28, 2009 12:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There's that

‘paint everybody with the same brush’ POV.

It’s just not right.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point taken

There are a lot of boos going on whenever Bradley comes to the plate. I’m sure the whole crowd isn’t booing, but sounds like many to me.

Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton

by KaliCub on Aug 28, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, the fan behavior does concern me...

I’ve seen similar behavior with my first sports love, the Montreal Canadiens. Of course they have known more success in their own sport, but the situation is similar to that of the Cubs in that fans have high expectations for their team (by itself, a good thing) but some express that with liberal booing and heckling of their own players. That combines with intense media scrutiny – again, similar with the Cubs in Chicago – to create an atmosphere that some star athletes explicitly don’t want to play in. A couple years ago we lost out on a potentially star free agent, Daniel Briere, who openly admitted this was a reason. And who knows how many other stars have declined to play for Montreal because of this – we’ve been pursuing one of the top players in the game, Vincent LeCavalier, for two seasons now and seemingly have sufficient money but mysteriously, the deal hasn’t happened.

All that to say that I’m afraid this reputation could adversely affect the Cubs, too. It’s not just about Milton Bradley not wanting to play here. You have to believe that word gets around the league behind the scenes; players talk to each other all the time. People may be ok with Bradley taking a hike, but who knows who will be the next potential blockbuster star who won’t sign with the Cubs because he’ll want to play in “friendlier” confines?

I tend to think that fans typically don’t have much to do with how professional athletes play, except in certain high-stakes situations where a little extra fan noise could make a difference. But this is a situation where I think fan behavior can adversely affect a team, whether or not Cubs fan deserve such a reputation.

"TOOO much good stuff!"

by cdnsportnic on Aug 28, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I followed that Montreal situation

closely, since I love hockey. I don’t see the comparison to the Cubs. It’s more Yankee-esque. The fans of the Habs have seen so much success…they have been spolied. Those fans are demanding, as are Yankee fans. We have barely tasted success. Montreal is a pretty small, isolated media market.

I won’t even go into the politics of the situation with Quebec v. the rest of canada.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 28, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not even close

The only thing that is similar is the fish-bowl type of exposure both teams have. Though the Yankees and BoSox are even more of fish-bowl exposure teams than the Cubs and more like the Habs.

Granted hockey isn’t anything down here like in Canada (I equate American football interest here to that of the hockey hot beds in Canada such as Montreal & Toronto especially), to the Canadians and in Montreal especially it is the fish-bowl environment up there.

But the Habs have won 24 cups in notably less years than the Cubs 2 WS titles. That part is not even in the same universe.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 29, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Portrait of a Lunatic (long)

I became one the day after October 14, 2003.

Think of every analogy you can involving heartbreak, betrayal, and the crushing of one’s spirit. You come home and your spouse is in bed with you best pal; your accountant takes off for the Caribbean with your savings; another inventor steals your sure-fire idea and makes a mint. You feel jilted and crapped all over, and your life is never the same afterward.

Well sir, that’s how I felt when a pennant-clinching game against the Marlins went badly wrong and Florida went on to the World Series instead.

Up until then I had the faith of a child in the Cubs, even in the face of letdowns like 1998, 1989, and 1984. Not to mention all the letdowns of sub .500 seasons and the crash-and-burns of individual games. I could rationalize the lack of talent, the failure of proper strategy, the hostile environments on the road, and even the overconfidence at times. I hung in there, my trust and belief fully invested in the North Siders.

But not after 10-14-03.

Seeing a team utterly collapse as they did after The Play That Shall Not Be Named ruined me. There wasn’t a trace of overconfidence or a lack of talent in the ’03 Cubs. The stars were aligned perfectly. They were an unsinkable vessel…and yet they still foundered. And I flew into a blind rage that scared even myself. I was all the victims in “28 Days Later” rolled into one. My dear wife had to grab my arm and threaten divorce to keep me from chucking a beer bottle through our TV set.

From that day (and the next one) forward, I lost all patience with the Cubs. My trust and belief were completely gone. To have been a Cubs fan since 1977 and be treated to the slap in the face that was the 2003 NLCS was enough. I became less a fan of a ball club, and more like a customer of a utility company that offers an attractive suite of services but never lives up to the bill of goods it sells.

You certainly wouldn’t want me in your company. I’m miserable when they fall behind early, when they give up a hit in the top of the 9th clinging to a slim lead, when they strike out with RISP during a tie game. I swear a blue streak for 2 solid hours. Of course, I’ll switch channels if they’re losing in the 4th and flip back later to see the score. And even when they win, I’m already looking at the starting matchups the next day to see if they have a chance against the opposing starter.

I’m sure there are fans of the Rangers, Expos-Nationals, and Mariners that also agonize over their team’s misfortunes. It hurts when you invest so much time and attention in a team and see no reward for your efforts. Coming into proximity with greatness only to stumble again (e.g. 2004, 2007, 2008) doesn’t help the situation, either.

Now, I’m not completely crazy because 1) I know the players don’t work for me and therefore owe me nothing, 2) I know baseball is probably the most unpredictable of all American professional sports, and 3) I realize that by nature I’m an impatient person who gets too intense and serious about the trivial. I understand I brought all this on myself.

It used to be that I could weather my post-2003 state by saying “I’m in it until they climb Everest and make the World Series; then I’m done with the Cubs and baseball forever”. I was willing to endure my growing suffering, justifying it as a temporary state until the Cubs won a pennant. Then I will have seen everything worth seeing in baseball and no longer have interest in the game. But who knows when they’ll do it? What if it takes another ten years, or twenty, or one hundred? Do I really want to spend my life getting even more angry? Have I become the addict that says “I can quit any time I want”?

If you don’t hear from me again, God bless you all and keep the faith I’m sorely lacking. You’re better people than me.

by CaliCub on Aug 29, 2009 11:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually, the players DO work for you.

Because without the money we spend on baseball, its TV games, and its sponsors, there would be no major league players at all.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 29, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

touche!

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Sep 3, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If nobody bought the product

Why is there a marketing department. Why do they change flavors or packaging? So if the workers at Pepsi don’t do a good job, you the customer won’t buy the product.

Same goes for MLB, if you don’t buy the tickets, caps, and jerseys, who pays the salary?

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Sep 3, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is that just because my money eventually ends up someplace doesn't mean they work for me

By that definition, then everyone who works in a capitalist economy works for everyone else who spends money in that economy.

It’s just a silly, oversimplified way to look at things. It makes no more sense than the guy shouting to a cop who just gave him a traffic ticket, “I pay taxes! That means I pay your salary!”

by Wreckard on Sep 3, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Silly and oversimplified???

Exactly correct.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Sep 3, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This POV

which is CaliCub is certainly justified to have, is one of the many reasons that there’s a lot of negative vibes at Wrigley.

Lots of heartbreak. Lots of angst. Lots of people want to see the team win. Lots of people don’t see “Loveable Loser” as anything to cheer about.

Those of you outside of Chicago need to hear the shit tossed at us when we leave an opposing team’s venue. “Another 100 years!”was the chant from drunken Padres fans in the streets of San Diego after Gregg’s HR toss to Kyle Blanks.

In Los Angeles, where I never usually hear this…..as I stood by my car, reading the paper in the parking lot after Saturday’s loss…a Dodgers fan drives by and says… “Coming to see the sweep tomorrow?” Easy to say when you are in a moving car, huh?

I say nothing. Milton Bradley ought to do the same. He’s getting paid very nicely to perform. And, of course, as I have stated many, many times — a player’s salary doesn’t correspond to his play or what he “should” be doing. His salary is a statement of his market value at that given time he signs a contract. So, don’t boo anybody for what they “should” be producing. But, I’m getting off topic here.

We take more crap as Cubs fans for our visibility. I’d wager when the Rangers lose, the two or three fans that might go to see them in Anaheim are barely noticed.

If some people’s behavior changes, that’s unfortuante. If it’s racially charged, that’s also unfortunate. But when a team’s #1 icon is Ernie Banks, I have big time trouble with a blanket statement. If a couple of drunks toss beer, and yell shit — that’s not indicative of all Cubs fans.

I blew up a few years back myself. That’s been chronicled here. For me, it was out of character, for anybody who knows me, personally.

Some people turn away, some people boo. I’ve thought of ignoring the team. But, I like baseball too much and just can’t change allegiances to the hot team of the moment. Americans like winners, and will jump on any bandwagon they can see for a good time.

But that’s OK, too. It’s our free choice.

All Cubs fan deserve a ‘do-over’ every now and then. If fans get a bit tweaked from time to time……it’s all a part of the Cubs fan experience, for better or worse.

Some players cannot perform in NYC. Obviously, some players cannot handle the pressure-cooker experience that is now Wrigley Field. Perhaps it’s best if Milton moves on. Good luck to Jim Hendry, or whomever has the task of accomplishing that.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 29, 2009 1:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is spot-on

Jazz Man (and I just left SD, after dropping off my kid there for her first year in college. He dorm room replete with the big “Cubbie Bear” Flag on her dorm room wall).

I have stated this several times this year – and Al has opined on my comment: players should take the money from another team if they believe that will melt under the heat! The fucking agents are partially to blame, as are the GM for not doing his homework. And, this year, Hendry the Pinhead did NOT. Sure Bruce, I totally agree that “players are expected to play to their career norms”, but certain players can get set up for failure based on their environment – and if they do not have the rock-solid confidence necessary to perform consistently at Wrigley Field, for the most-scrutinized franchise in MLB.

Bradley was the wrong fit. Period. Replacing the #2 2009 man with Aaron Miles, Mike Fontenot, Andres Blanco, and Jeff Baker (especially during A-Ram’s yearly injury period), was a terrible miscalculation. And I can say unequivically, that it “is not early anymore”. A complete failure. Making it worse is that the guy ends up with our hated rival.

I would say that not having Mark DeRosa – while he will not be a HOF member anytime, was worth 5-7 wins more than the team has now. How he would have effected the team chemistry – in the absence of Bradley – is another intangible.

I respect Bruce greatly. He’s entitled to his opinion. I can dig the fact that he really wears the “baseball is a 162 game-season.” which it is! In 2007 I learned that even the Cubs could get a break from the Baseball Gods every now and then – although they are few and far between. However, I do not roll like that. I say stuff that I think and maybe shouldn’t say – but my disgust with the team hits me both emotionally and financially as a Season Ticket Holder. There are no guarantees with this game. I just ask for the players to give it their all on the field – and when I see Soriano out there play like shit game after game, or Aaron Miles hit like a J.C. player, or Milton Bradley shooting his mouth (he does give it his all on the field at least), it tees me off.

This was a year that personally, in all the games I attended (my current record is 3-12, after going 17-3 last year), and watched on TV – I had no confidence in them either holding on to one-runs lead late, nor winning games late with walk-off’s, etc. It was a year of mediocrity. And that’s what we have now: basically a .500 team. And while the players have to perform where expected (the Phillies manage to), the GM is supposed to put the players in a spot they can succeed in.

I think Bruce expects fans to “take it one game at a time”, which is very fair – but for many of us who have lived through failure after agonizing failure for years, our expectations are greater than the team can possibly deliver at this time. This is where the difference lies. But, indeed, we ALL want the same thing!

Last year was the one we missed, imo. It is going to be a very interesting off-season, and 2010 baseball season.

by The E-Man on Aug 30, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm insufferable when I'm at games

for example, I was at Thursday’s game against the Nats, and Washington scored 3 runs before Randy wells could record an out. When he did record that first out, I stood up and gave him a mock standing ovation.

Douchey? Yep. But hey, I don’t have the money to go to more than one or two games a year, in due large part to the ticket increases year after year. I get that if you have 135 million dollar payroll, tickets are going to be expensive. That’s fine, but if you are going to price me and probably lots of other people out, you better not be in a free fall in August.

This team has been so damn frustrating, and players have been either hurt or have massively underachieved. That’s what leads to the booing and the “hatred,” not the fact that the Cubs are bad – hell, we’ve seen lots of bad teams – but the fact that things were supposed to be better than this.

I boo and mock cheer at pro games all the time. Want me to stop booing? Win.

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Aug 29, 2009 9:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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